Why was there never an official Witch class in D&D? I know Pathfinder had one. Maybe because of the Satanic Panic?
>>98170042Have you tried playing games?
>Warlock>Sorcerer>WizardExplain to me how at least one of those isn't a witch.
>>98170187>WizardPower is learned academically.>SorcererPower is innate, usually genetic.>WarlockPower is Cyclops from X-Men.No witches found I'm afraid. Warlocks are beamspam merchants.
>>98170218Please stop being a retard
Pathfinder had one because Pathfinders main appeal is turbo autists who think you need a Samurai and Ninja class. 5e in one of its few moments of sanity said no we have Warlock let's just use Warlock.
>>98170274Yeah when I think of the collective witch folklore of humanity I really think of a dude squaring up and going "Eldtritch... BLAST!" and firing off red lazers that blast the enemy back 10ft. Good call from WotC there. They nailed it.
>>98170293You have a patron which gives you extra special powers and can choose which spells you bring, many of which are thematically appropriate. The fact the class got memed into the ground because of a cantrip does not change this.
I'm glad that a sack of refuse like (you) stays in the containment game.
>>98170299literally 8000+ years of conceptual witchcraft haunting the human imagination, ideas and imagery far older than the berobed befuddled wizard we all know today, and you're trying to convince me the fact this guy can play sub for a greater demon means witches are adequately represented by the Warlock class.No. WotC got lazy and scared. Maybe of religious backlash, maybe just of pussy, IDK.
>>98170042The 3e Dungeon Master's Guide had a witch class as an example of how a GM could make an original class using the new rules. It wasn't an "official" class but it was published in an official book. So D&D don't have problems publishing a witch class, really. I remember it was all very close to a sorcerer, with spells from the druid and cleric list mostly about weather manipulation, curses etc. Classic witch shenanigans. I think the hit dice was d6. If you need a witch class I can recommend looking at that as inspiration.
>>98170327So go play Pathfinder you autist.
>>98170042Well, 99% of D&D players are men, and they don’t want to play characters of the opposite gender unless they’re transgender or have other dysphoria. So basically no one would play that class. That’s why every single class is male.
>>98170042The witch is such a nebulous concept that you'd need to have some kind of setting established idea to make it work.It's even more nebulous than sorcerer which has an identity crisis between magical mutant and race-as-class all while trying to be a low tier wizard.Now to finish out my rant. The Warlock and Sorcerer are parts of the wizard that should go back to the source and if you really wanted to make a class that is basically a product of magic animal beastiality then actually make some unique mechanics.
>>98170327Correct. In traditional Western depictions a witch is someone who has bargained with an otherworldly entity, usually demonic in nature, for power or knowledge in exchange for their soul/service. All D&D warlocks are textbook witches.
>>98170042>>98170327You appear to have come into this with a preconceived conclusion so it doesn't seem like you actually want your question answered, you just want to try and push your idea on everyone else. What does "witch" even mean to you?
>>98170042Warlock you dumb double nigger.
>>98170218It's lowkey amazing just how dogshit Warlock is at implementing the actual fantasy of pact magic. The cantrip blaster/short rest requester role would make more sense for literally anything else - psion and artificer come to mind immediately but even base sorc would make more sense (innate powers so "I cast blast" is the default, and you can only to small 2-3 burst of controlled high level magic before you need to chill).
>>98170187>>98170218The difference between fantasy concepts is up to an individual work of fantasy in question.
>>98170042Have you tried not playing DnDogshit?
>>98170437Thank you for giving a real reason finally.
>>98170589The playtest sorcerer for 5e got a little bit like that where IIRC you were switching between being a mid caster and hulking out as a magical mutant. It wasn't very well designed but it at least executed the theme better.>>98170858There is a blaster artificer (the turret one) but you are spot-on it makes more sense for the role. It can be more interesting too with a huge variety of magic items to do it in addition to the usual magic guns, bombs, turrets etc.Binder was much better as an execution of pact magic but was obv a pretty messy class at best.
>>98171070Binder would 100% fit whatever thematic niche was suppose to be fulfilled by the Warlock instead of making them failed wizards who open their assholes for otherworldly patrons to become !clerics.You could even incorporate the fact that using their Patron's powers could reveal some of their nature but then there are no mechanical downsides except whatever DM wants to make it a big deal.That being said, Incarnum should make a comeback in some shape form or fashion which I think would have been perfect for artifacer spontaneously making magic like items.
>>98170187explain to me how the other two aren't
>>98170042Witches in folklore aren't that different from Druids.
>>98170042What would Witch do specifically that other magic users can't?
>>98171197Making potions, scaring people, flying with a broom, predicting the future, being cute
The D&D 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide had a witch spell list, and 4e Heroes of the Feywild had the witch as a wizard subclass.This is to say nothing of the many incarnations of the warlock class.
>>98170042There was. They were presented as an alternate class in the AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide, with a focus on curses, weather control, and minor blessings, as well as healing and disease magic. They weren't especially powerful or anything, more as a 'this is an example'.Modern D&D can't differentiate magic users enough without screwing up the math, sop they didn't bother.
>>98170042I was always under the impression thats what Warlock was for, they just called it that because most players are gonna be dudes
>>98170042Pathifinder 1e did witches very well.
>>98170042Because they are idiots who can't make anything remotely unique or useful. They can't do a proper and effective gish either, nor can they do anything with psychic abilities or any class that gains monster-like abilities, because they are creatively bankrupt.
>>98170042You'll get your D&D Witch Class when WotC spots a decent 3rd Party homebrew worth selling on DNDBeyond
Anyway thematically a witch can go into many directionsSatanist/sabbath witch Cutesy witch Arcane tradition witch (a là Murray)Seductive witch, evenPowers are pretty vast, natural, potions, flying...
I simply refluff class mechanics to whatever character design i desire. It is just that shrimple.
>>98171826>this is my witch, an 8th-level battlemaster fighter and 3rd-level sun soul monk
>>98170617It's a nogames thread like many others. He just wants to spam quasi AI goon slop of vague fantasy witches. The OP question is enough to fool the jannies (they never played a traditional game).
>>98171860Yeah pretty much. Crone of the swamp/hag strength, able to suplex your ass while offering candy. Lives in a gingerbread hut. Looks like a grandma.
>>98170042If you try to understand the historical difference of the words witch and wizard you have witch originating from folk traditions of magic and superstition, and wizard originating from the academic (scholars, sages, philosophers).Both words have been around the block and abused for years, but possibly by accident they've looped back around in modern fantasy to mean the same things again in a weird way. >wizard is like an old timey doctor who went to university for 8 years and understands medicine in an academic sense far more than a hands on sense.>a witch is like a nurse trained in hands on practical everyday medicine, had limited resources for academic study on the subject but far more practice with everyday things.So flavor DnD a subclass could work, but really you can just run a wizard and call them a witch, flavor their backstory as being more of an apprenticed practical training, maybe multiclass with druid. It's whatever feels right.
>>98171862>quasi AIWhat does this mean? There's one AI image in this thread that I can see, which is >>98171669. >>98171729 looks like it might use some AI generation but is otherwise touched up or outlined by an artist. Everything else is an actual artist: >>98170327 and >>98171144 are literally from D&D 3.5e books.What is "quasi AI"? Art that existed before AI but now looks like AI because AI copied it?
>>98170042I the original Baldur's Gate, it's stated pretty clearly that a witch is a female mage.
the only witch that makes sense in D&D are Hags so better embrace those big saggy tits.
>>98170042>Why was there never an official Witch class in D&D?They do, retard, they're warlocks. That's what a warlock is, a male/gender neutral practitioner of witchcraft.
>>98171882The "wizard is science, witch is practicality" definitely exists, but it is total pop fantasy. Probably deriving from Discworld over anything else. Though magic is only kind of sort of science there, with primordial sentient spells vaguely around and wizards pulling double duty for university politics parodies more and more as the series goes on.If we go further back magic as predatory and not fully understood is fully manifested in Jack Vance's stories, eponymous to the D&D casting system, and very much 100% wizards at least as they were in early D&D. Mythologically witches usually barter for power, even in non-Western traditions. Sometimes directly from an entity, otherwise by simulacra or ritual. That's why so many people in the thread are suggesting Warlock. D&D is aiming for the generic so you're never really going to get a deep dive on either source material, but it could be interesting.
>>98171918Witch is a gender neutral term FYI.
>>98171937It's so associated with women these days that basically no one uses it that way.
>>98171918Warlocks are oathbreakers who used to be witches or clergymen who brok with the Coven or the Church and turned to dark powers to gain magical abilities.Witches gain their power through a multitude of sources, often spirits, strange forces, or natural magics.
>>98171999Distinctions that are otherwise meaningless but in complete divine I think there was a literal shaman class that fit the very description you're talking about.
>>98171625If you're playing a magic user and can't do that it's a skill issue not a system issue. Git gud.
>>98171895is the discord raider. ignore and report
>>98171625You can do that with any magic user.Although I like the idea of being anle to cast spells with your HP in some way.Never touched Blood Hunter so idk if it's what I'm looking for, but it's homebrew so wouldn't count regardless.
>>98170218>Power is innate, usually genetic>Power is Cyclops from X-MenCyclopse is a mutant, his power literally comes from his X gene, he'd be a Sorcerer by your logic.
>>98172271What does being a mutant mean when you have "mutants" like Magick? That said, I though Scott was channeling energy beams from another dimension not that the details actually matter.
>>98171625>Making potionsSounds like multiclassing with Alchemist.
>>98172721>>98172072Boring.
>>98172484>I though Scott was channeling energy beams from another dimension not that the details actually matterThat was a throwaway line from a handbook they retconned very soon after, an in actuality his body absorbs ambient energy like sunlight and stores it, making him a human battery whose only outlet is firing beams from his eyes. People just like the portals to the punch dimension funnier, and it doesn't help when games like Marvel Rivals reference it.
>>98172925It's no less silly then acting as a portal to the ice cream dimension so you can sweat, shit, and possibly lactate ice cream.
>>98171932As I said, it's a modern thing, popular now and recently, but it IS a circling back of the origin of both. It was kind of on purpose, but also just how pop fantasy (which DnD is) evolved. Hell a lot of stuff about wizards these days is just a straight line from DnD. But witch, wicca (the original word not the new age religion), was used in the context of pagan (non-christian) traditions and superstitions for magic. So everything about the word is tied to "folk belief/traditions". Meanwhile wizard's origin is tied to academic study, philosophy, scholars, literally a wise guy.We have just gone full circle on these words. We went back to their roots and realized "this is actually more fun for fantasy world building than saying witches have sex with demons."And that bit of yours about witches in non-western traditions? those are other words in other languages, they don't use the word witch. Acting as if they're the same thing when they're just the closest translation waters everything down. It's like saying other cultures all over the world have vampires. No they have things that drink blood or other stuff aesthetically similar. But they don't have vampires. That's a specific word with its own history of a thousand meanings.
>>98171625Elaina pleases old men for money
Gygax hated women that's literally it
>>98180245Whew
>>98171999>Witches gain their power through a multitude of sources, often spirits, strange forces, or natural magics.4e Warlocks are generally meant to wheel&deal with a variety of forces to get their spells and their Pact feature really only marks their chosen specialization.
>>98172925>stores ambient sunlight and fires it into kinectic beamsthe ratio must be 1:1000000000000000 because he never seems to stop firing eye beams. He could end with energy problems on Earth
>>98172271The joke is that warlock in D&D is a eldritch blast turrent and nothing else, while witches tend to be old hags with cauldrons that make curses and other stuff and not infinite ammo gatling blaster
>>98171625>making potionsAny character proficient in alchemy tools and arcana can brew potions>scaring peopleA solid chunk of spells do this>flying with a broomAlready a magic item, uncommon>predicting the futureWelcome to divination spells. >being cuteYou can just make your character cute.
>>98180699Damn that's cool as hell
