I finally figured it out, the true meaning of OSR. OSR refers to the hobby and community revolving around arguing what OSR means and is and isn't OSR.
I had someone tell me they didn't believe OSR was a thing and they got mad when I explained it to him.
>>98173470>OSR is a nogame hobby
>>98173470The real OSR was the friendships we ruined and the games people stopped showing up for after one session along the way because we were adhering to the obtuse and retarded purity spiral bullshit that a bunch of faux-grogs made up about old editions of D&D.
>>98173470Congratulations, you solved the mystery!You are now free. Do with this fact what you will.
I think this might be a /tg/ specific phenomenon, and possibly only a handful of autists I don't think the rest of the internet is this anal retentive about this, they actually talk about the games
>>98173480Tell us what he said and tell us your definition of OSR
>>98173470can you type that again without seething?
>>98173715Struck a nerve lol
>>98173496Accurate
>>98173470Only on /tg/Elsewhere people just play, talk about, and shill retro D&D and D&D-alikes.
>>98173470Nah, this is only done by a small group of guys. It's not common in most OSR communities
>>98173470It was always about recreating 1st edition ad&d. OSR is a useless relic now because 1st ed rules are easy to find these days. Hence the term has become a useless marketing term for glue sniffing retards to argue over.
>>98173963TG is literally one of the Biggest and most Influential RPG communities in the World though... so big that we have Advertisers trying to Astroturf on us...
>>98174257>TG is literally one of the Biggest and most Influential RPG communities in the World thoughheh
>>98174246It's essentially a cargo cult
>>98173470>I finally figured out its bait the keep post numbers on /tg/ up! We're dying. 11th ed 40k didn't even make the noomber go up.
>>98174246It really is more of a marketing term than not. I've seen it slapped on games that are wholly built from modern design ideas or otherwise completely lacking in any actual attempt to recreate anything from older editions of D&D, with the exception of maybe having randomly rolled attributes.
>>98173571The traditional roguelike community begs to differ
>>98173744i guess you cant
>>98177025Berlin or bust
>>98177025To expand on this anon, the roguelike community has long since moved past fighting over whether games are or not roguelikes and now fight over the systems and sets of rules that could be used to determine whether a game is or isn't a roguelike.It's an abstract kind of hell>>98177565Fuck Berlin
>>98177025>>98177602I'm talking about the tabletop gaming community online. This behavior isn't surprising from video gamers at all.
>>98173470That makes OSR sound like a music genre? You could swap in metal, jazz, alternative, any-adjective-rock or any post-genre for OSR and the sentence would remain true.
>>98177908I'm unironicaly running >PBTA threat domain mgmt mixed with Bathian wargame hexmaps and first wave nusr dungeon homebrew.
>>98173470it really comes down to two groups:- R stands for Revival, a return to the roots of the game and the culture of the first decade- R stands for Renaissance, carrying forward and building on ethos of play and culture of the games first decade into the modern eraone is orthodox, one is heterodox>>98173571>I think this might be a /tg/ specific phenomenonmore or less
>>98173470TRVTHNVKE
>>98173519>purity spiral bullshitTOUT TOUT!
>>98173470God, you're pissy that you're not allowed to derail /osrg/, huh.Well, mald harder.
>>98179775>everyone other than me is fishfag
>>98177908OSR may as well be jazz the way people insist that things that fucking suck are great because that's how the genre is supposed to be, instead of admitting that fart huffing retards are using the 'misunderstood underground artiste' act as a shield from genuine criticism for their lack of skill.
You wanna know what OSR is? Just read thishttps://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/99123/adventurer-conqueror-king-system
>>98179878That looks like gay aids. Why are you trying to spread gay aids,
>>98179882Kill yourself
>>98179827Boy, you REALLY can't stand that you're not allowed to derail /osrg/.
>>98179848
>>98179878Is that the AI game
>>98180142Nope.
>>98179775>God, you're pissy that you're not allowed to derail /osrg/, huh.I have never posted in OSR in my life, but I have lurked in it. So much of it is literally just arguing about the same shit until bump limit each fucking thread, everyday for years. Then there's a fucking splinter thread in the catalog that no one can tell if it's a troll or not.>>98179827And of course you got this poopdickschizo shit. Just accept this is how OSR fags look like to the rest of /tg/.
>>98180142lol yes, its over slop art and its quite bad. /slop/ levels of bad. Mind you Games Workshop and Wotc are using AI art now too so we're fucked in that regard but its a contemptible thing to try and hide. Almost as bad as the antiacks guy who thinks its enough to narc to kickstarter about but won't do it themselves.
>>98177908My favorite niche genre argument is saying that grunge doesn't exist, it's just a bunch of a glam rock hair metal bands who couldn't afford to move out of Seattle stealing Nirvana's sound(and Nirvana is just stealing from the Pixies, so they're not grunge either).It's what the arguments in the steampunk thread reminded me of.
>>98180107Lmao perfect.I fucking hate Cairn and the "Oddlikes"
>>98178142The OSR and NuSR split covers it pretty well. But of course that'd be too simple, so instead we get endless threads full of shitposting because people care more about protecting the name OSR instead of discussing any of these cool games they claim to like.
>>98180151>no one can tell if it's a troll or notLmao, plenty of people can tell perfectly fine. It's a troll.
>>98180215>people care more about protecting the name OSR instead of discussing any of these cool games they claim to like/osrg/ seems perfectly capable of doing both tb h. This is such a one-sided complaint.
>>98180157Selling something with AI that you don't disclose as AI is against Kickstarter's ToS, and according to the ToS would result in being banned from selling any future projects. That would probably be the end of ACKS, since they've already been banned from Reddit and getting banned from Kickstarter for a hotbutton topic like undisclosed AI art would probably have a cascading effect. Consider that it's also against DrivethruRPG's ToS, with a similar total ban policy on any undisclosed AI, and it would go from low sales to no sales.Reporting to Kickstarter would likely kill the game. The shills on /tg/ may be incredibly annoying, but they're also obsessed to the point where if their own activities here somehow lead to the complete death of their game and the end of Autarch, some of them might actually kill themselves as well.Makes it an interesting dilemma.On one hand, you've got innocent and unwitting people who might purchase a product that's scamming them and might even be against their moral principles, and it's only fair to report the game to places its being sold so they can decide for themselves what to do.On the other hand, Kaiba is standing on the edge of the parapet, and attacking his monster might make him lose his balance, leading to his death.
>>98180261Glancing in the /osrg/ it seems they're currently having their own bout of shitflinging regarding slurs and the definition of 'protagonist'.>perfectly capable of doing both tAnyone is capable of contributing to shitposting, but it's weird to brag about it
>>98177286>>98173744
>>98180278Do it pussy.
>>98180151>>Then there's a fucking splinter thread in the catalog that no one can tell if it's a troll or not.There are often two splinter threads. One is often a troll thread and one is not. Both are full of mod protected osrg trolls however.
>>98181257>full of mod protected osrg trollsskiz
>>98180497That'd be implying he hasn't already done it anon. He's here desperately trying to raise a personal army to try and pressure Kickstarter after being to fuck off most likely.Watching him basically crank his hog and squeal over the idea of cancelling someone really is a disgusting thing to watch though. What a depressing reality it is that this creature shares biological similarities with actual humans like you or I.
>>98173470Don't forget the part about feeling smug and superior to people who play games that don't fit your definition of OSR like an rpg hipster.
>>98182127>everyone other than me is fishfag
>>98182113It's just fact, some pure up stated they trolled and all reports for those get ignored. I don't know what else to call it.
>>98182127lol, the ACKS shill is feeling feisty.There's something incredibly funny how you can always be trusted to say the dumbest possible things that will always backfire on yourself.You've been shown mercy, and want to try and call it weakness. I have no idea why you'd want to push your luck, especially because you think that anyone who wanted you to kill yourself would use 4chan as the place to "raise a personal army" when most of the rest of the internet already hates you and your game and it's only tolerated here because 4chan basically tolerates anything.Do you really want to see what happens if someone actually decides to end ACKS? If you keep acting up, someone less kind might decide to tip that first domino. Hell, someone might do it not in order to end ACKS or your trolling, but just out of a sense of ennui.Were you smart, you would be treading carefully, with that Sword of Damocles above your head. But, we probably can guess how things will turn out, because "smart" is the last word to ever describe you.
>>98182217>with that Sword of Damocles above your head.lmao do a flip.
>>98182217NTA, but fucking report it or don't. It's not some great gotcha or anything.
>>98180278then call the cops already you fuckin faggot
>>98180352>STILL cantI accept your concession>>98182217call the cops and quit crying on 4chan about how much you hate ACKS
>>98182277It'd almost feel like a waste though.You can tell how upset the shill is about this whole business by how he's trying to act like he's not upset (the basic rule of thumb is that everything he says is some kind of lie).
>>98180278Stop talking like an anime villain, Jesus
>>98182355Dude, as my great aunt would say shit or get off the pot
>>98182355>>98182217>>98180278>if i bitch on 4chan to people who like ACKS, then surely I will take ACKS down a peg or two!take meds you histrionic fuckin psycho
>>98182359Just having some fun.The ACKS shill acts like he thinks there's a single villain "amassing an army," like Sauron would have nothing better to do than kill a game that's practically dead anyway.
>>98182355Holyshit you're pathetic.
>>98182447>its not like I like you or anything bakaoh I get it
...The ACKS shill seems really upset.
>>98182447what does the word "shill" mean?
I accept your concession.
>>98182447Pretty much, outside of here and it's discord there is really no buzz about it. Hell I forgot it existed until the shrills and this guy started being it up every fucking day.
>>98182447>Just having some fun.typing like a pretentious autistic anime villain is fun for you?>The ACKS shill acts like he thinks there's a single villain "amassing an army," youve already posted several agitation threads trying to do just that>like Sauron would have nothing better to do than kill >"im not doing it but I totally should be doing it!"lol>a game that's practically dead anyway.I dont think multiple fully funded campaigns over the last few years is dead, it's just niche.
>>98182473Did you lose access to google or something?
>>98182480>shrills>beingESL-kun please return to your designated shitting ditch
>>98182480>hell i forget the thing I get mad about all the rootin tootin time is galdangaling a thing every time I goshdarn hit the bottle until i remember why I'm so galdang assblasted again
>nobody:>absolutely not one person in the world:>acks: exists>op: WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE???
>>98182491>typing like a pretentious autistic anime villain is fun for you?...Did you think worrying about you killing yourself was supposed to be serious? lmao, do a flip.>youve already posted several agitation threads trying to do just thatActually, I personally haven't. You really need to stop trying to live your "Sauron and his army threaten middle earth and only I can defeat him by being the dumbest bitch" fan fiction. >I dont think multiple fully funded campaigns over the last few years is dead,They never had one that had more than 2k backers. The last few had only about a thousand.Game is dying out. I think the ACKS2 kickstarter was really their last chance to try and revitalize interest in the game, and that ended with "getting banned from Reddit for shilling too hard." Autarch also trying to make a superhero game and only getting 500 backers was also probably not the outcome they were hoping for. That's not even a full highschool.
>>98182512Dude, you are confusing me with other people, again.
They hate ACKS because they hate Gygax These subversives with no respect for customs or tradition. They'd claim 3.5 is OSR if we let them.No. We are holding the line. OSR is Gygaxian and Macrisian. Full stop. No Traveller is not OSR, no Rollmaster is not OSR, no WOD is not OSR, no Kingdoms is not OSR. If Gygax or Macris didn't okay it, it isn't OSR.
>>98182617>They never had one that had more than 2k backers. The last few had only about a thousand.So what? The crowdfund campaigns all get funded. Do you think size is an indicator of quality or success?>Game is dying out. Again, how is multiple successful funding campaigns "dying out"?>"getting banned from Reddit for shilling too hard." lol, lmao even
>>98182617>I was only pretending to be retarded!>uno cards do a flip fish come on
>>98182626Which you do you think me is?
>>98182631Gygax would have hated ACKS. He actually made a lot of posts on dragonsfoot about how he despised "ruleplayers" and how didn't like the direction of modern RPGs took of just adding rules and over-complicating the game. And, ACKS is nothing but an over complicated nest of poorly thought-out rules.In hindsight even AD&D had been too complex for Gygax, and shortly before he died he admitted that his favorite game to run was 3-booklet OD&D with a few houserules, and was looking forward to running that at a convention.
>>98182662stop samefagging yourself
>>98182631Nah, the shitty part is they can't even talk about the games they want to include in the broader definition. There can be an othrodox thread and an open thread, that makes sense. But they don't even play any of the heterodox osr games or 2nd ed. They just seeth at the idea someone doesn't agree with their categorization.
>>98182676nou
>>98182631>No Traveller is not OSR,What in the goddamn..
>>98182678We really are just dealing with a narcissist who is upset they were told no and that someone dared set a boundary in their presence. That much is obvious by this point.
>>98182686It's unironically what 2E cuckolda believe. To them OSR just means "old RPGs"
>>98182694Remember when an S&W player posted in Open OSR instead of the general and you guys got buttmad when he said he didn't want to post there? Good times.
>>98182686Even the hillbilly and fishfag agree with that. Its been clarified, their Open OSR is just pre-2000 D&D. Rules or vibes. Whatever that means. But not the vibes from non-dnd. Even if the vibes are just themes like domain play or exploration. Those have to come from D&D. They're trying to have it both ways, totally open and progressive but entirely just their narrow definition that can be altered on their whim but not subject to explanation. Its not going to make sense.
>>98182702Do they unironically believe the earth is round? That the sky is blue? Without Traveller, there would not BE an OSR. What kind of crack are you fags in the general smoking?
>>98182643>Do you think size is an indicator of quality or success?It's an indicator of fanbase size and popularity. Games need people.If a game is only played by a thousand people in the world, that's less players than guests at some Quinceañeras. That's less players than people at a Vanilla Ice concert. That's less people than an average weekend for your mother.
>>98182702Yeah, ha ha, 23 cuckolda like Matt Finch.
>>98182756Matt Finch is not an authority of the OSR. Only Gygax and Macris are. We've been over this a dozen times. You keep bringing up Finch. Finch is confirmed irrelevant
>>98182775What do you personally think the first OSR game was?Also, lol at you including Macris when he can't even get 2k backers. Next to no one respects him or his game.
>>98182751ntayrt There are likely less than a 1000 posters on /tg/ we only hit 5K posts or so a day. If its so irrelevant why are you here? Or alternatively, appealing to populism isn't going to work on a hipster forum, in an even smaller subset of nerd hipsters and within that an even smaller cluster. That normies don't like a thing makes it more appealing. I don't like ACKS very much but your approach is flawed.
>>98182742>Without Traveller, there would not BE an OSR.This could be interesting, explain. The >everything that is old is oldschool isn't as commonly encountered here.
>>98182775Gygax himself admonished players to not treat him as the Pope of D&D. You disgrace the man's memory by swinging his name around like a damned cudgel.
>>98182816Actually, population-wise we're still at 5,000 daily visitors. We used to be roughly at 15,000, but even at a third of that we still get more visitors in a single day than ACKS will likely ever have players.But, comparing daily /tg/ visitors to lifetime number of players is hardly a fair comparison. To get a better sense of what I'm talking about, Autarch has its own subreddit. It gets less than 100 weekly visitors. Meanwhile, even a indie game like Shadowdark gets more than 11k weekly visitors.ACKS is not just unpopular, it's deeply unpopular. It's so unpopular that its presence on this board is incredibly outsized, and really only became noticeable after ACKS was banned from reddit and the shills had to find some new place to try and salvage what was left of their failed game. We're talking about a handful of shills, who make up an actually fairly high percentage of the total players of the game, parking themselves on this board because they have no where better to say things like >>98182775
>>98182824Basically, Traveller had survived a similar event to the shuttering of TSR in 2000 a few years earlier in '96, so the TSRfags of the early 00s used that community as a blueprint towards their own.
>>98182725No, you were just more stupid than I expected. No one but you thinks this
>>98182905>so the TSRfags of the early 00s used that community as a blueprint towards their own.This is interesting, are there any articles I can read on that? I still have the Black Box from when I was a kid.
>>98182876The ACKS Discord has like 2500 members. It's a sizable niche. The annoying ACKS shilling around here is obvious. Or, hell, at this point it's more ACKS baiting, since if the guys who do it aren't pants on head retarded, they must understand they've probably ruined their reputation around this board by constantly acting like abrasive dickheads. Still, regardless of how much you hate them, it just gives them further bait if you say flagrantly dishonest shit.
>>98182751a business that is profitable is sucessful, regardless of size. Quit coping. >>98182742>traveller is OSRkill yourself
>>98183026>>98182876>reputation around this board Everyone hates all of you. You're obviously both so fucked in the head its leaking all over the board. Neither of you can stop being wrong at each other and its just going to be a barrel of fucked monkeys and fish forever.
>>98183016Nothing I can find with the current state of search engines. And a lot of the conversations on the subject were in forums that no longer exist. In light of that the flagrant revisionism isn't surprising.
>>98182876Nope, 4stats measures posts. Answer the question. If its so irrelevant why do you care? Why haven't you alerted the kickstarter police?
>>98183041Appropriate response desu. Sad the OSR presence on here has devolved into this, it used to be very creatively fruitful.
>>98183054>can't link sources>dude just trust me >they're a doing historical revisionism Predictable.
>>98177908Surely we can get meta, Kobold (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QN_RSi5qo2w) is clearly OSR music, but Fief (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DffQVP6UqVQ) is just dungeon synth
>>98183026>The ACKS Discord has like 2500 members. That's not really that many, especially considering there's basically no where else to discuss the game and that's a lifetime total, not daily/weekly visitors. The number of active users is probably considerably smaller, probably less than 200 daily visitors.And, if the game has worldwide double that, with 5k players, it's still incredibly unpopular. I'm not sure how to explain how little that is, because the only games I can compare it to are other games no one's ever heard of. This isn't to be mean to ACKS (well, not entirely), it's just to make it clear that it's not exactly a game anyone is supposed to be taking seriously as some sort of pivotal example of an OSR game when less than 0.1% of OSR players have ever touched the game.
>>98183171Non-music fuckhead here. I can't tell those apart and have entirely missed the appeal of music themed to other hobbies I like. Don't play music when I'm running games, is that what this is for?
>>98183277Honestly it's just a joke. But if you like this kind of stuff, "Dungeon Synth" is the name of the genre.
>>98183236>That's not really that manyEspecially when you remember just how many bots plague any public discord with an easily findable invite link. I'm not in very many public servers myself, but one of them is for an niche RPG system with about 400 members total. 100 or so are online at any given time. Another 300 are rarely ever online and haven't posted ever. Only about 5-10 are regularly active. Despite this, the server gets at least one spam bot per week because there's a public invite link floating around the internet.
>>98183236How big do you think the OSR community is, my guy?
>>98183741Y'know. If you like Discord so much, why don't you stay there?
>>98182675The rules are fantastic and do what they're supposed to do. You keep making the claim that the rules are bad, but when you get called out to prove which rules are "poorly thought out" you throw a wobbly and claim you've answered this before.You have never ever answered this question. And if you did, you would have no problem finding that post or perhaps repeating the argument?
>>98183236thats what the word "niche" means, tard-kun
>>98183881Niche is something like Shadowdark. Hell, Shadowdark is already a niche within a niche within a niche, and it likely has 10x-30x the number of players ACKS has.ACKS is so unpopular, that even in its niche of either OSR-inspired games or Autistic Simulators its not particularly popular. The people who subjectively enjoy it are a minority within a minority.Within a minority.
>>98183964>niche is a wildly successful dark horse...maybe? But ACKS is still niche by definition. It's a small game that is profitable, and has a die-hard fanbase. How is that debatable?
>>98183964Again, how big do you think the OSR "community" is?
>>98183964>>98183058well?
>>98183964what do you think "niche" means?
>>98183973For one thing, plenty of scams are profitable. It's really easy to make money when you sell something for considerably more than its worth. Especially if the scam involves stuff like using AI art but not disclosing that.Or brigading on a website to advertise a mediocre niche of a niche game as if it was the best game of all time that should replace whatever the people were playing at the time. There's actually some Reddit shill accounts that didn't get deleted that have that rhetoric, where he's not calling the game a niche product, but trying to sell it as the next great RPG.More importantly, we can see the Kickstarter numbers, and a good chunk of the money came from fairly suspicious extremely high pledges, like the seven $2,500 pledges, and had incredibly low-balled goals just to later advertise they cleared them. We really don't know what the ACKS finances look like, and any numbers we'd get from them would probably be cooked to make the game look more successful, so trying to use the argument "It's good because it's profitable" is not really that trustworthy even if it was a valid argument, which it really isn't. Those $2,500 pledges though......assuming they're not Macris just dumping money into his own kickstarter to try and seed it and encourage other people to spend that much on the ridiculous upper tiers, that means that there's at least seven people obsessed enough with ACKS to essentially throw that much money away. I wonder if they'd also be obsessed enough to do stuff like appear on websites and act like retarded cunts about the game they probably think of as an investment......wonder what websites they'd pop up on...
>>98184053mucho texto. nice cope though
>>98184053Do you have proof of this brigading? And I mean ACTUAL proof, not predditor moderators saying "Erm, akshually, Macris is a c.h.u.d. and thus not welcome on our boards." Actual proof of someone organizing brigade runs?
>>98184062Are you asking in good faith?
>>98184053nah, you're doing a thing where you want to say its insignificant but then its a huge grift. So huge that someone should DO SOMETHING MUAHAHAHAH and then you just do this again.
>>98184064Post the evidence.
>>98184064Yes. Because I'm an active member of said Discord and have never ever seen this.
>>98184066You do know who we're talking to, right? He never ever posts anything concrete or specific. Always generalities and unverifiable claims.
>>98184068>>98184069...that's what you think can convince anyone you're asking in good faith? After >>98184062 ?If anyone is curious, they can actually look into the archives and find a fair amount of proof collected and posted by different anons here, apparently partly built off of what Redditors themselves collected because the denial of brigading by the brigaders began immediately after ACKS got banned.The ACKS brigaders even made their own new butthurt subreddit called r/TheOSR just to make posts complaining about how they were banned from r/OSR and to encourage redditors to follow them in protest of them getting banned, but that subreddit has basically died, with r/TheOSR getting only about 400 weekly visitors compared to r/OSR's 38,000.Overall though, I think my favorite bit of proof from Reddit is this particular surviving shill account.https://www.reddit.com/user/TheYuanti/comments/Most of the shill accounts got deleted (and some redditors actually compiled lists of them), but this one managed to dodge a ban, probably because it was only used a few times in any flame wars and only made some 30 posts, all only during the ACKS2 kickstarter, and with some incredibly transparent shilling.
Delusional. Why would the greatest OSR game ever produced since Gary designed OD&D need paid shills?
>>98184134>implying they do it for freethat's even more pathetic
>>98184118>https://www.reddit.com/user/TheYuanti/comments/... anon this is a lot of them posting that the without number series is a great resource. What do you think a shill is?
>>98182214>I don't know what else to call it.How about schizo delulu?
>>98182217>trying to act like a big cheese blackmail kingpinlmao, castrated faggotdo it or don't, shut up either way
>>98184141and that they use ACKS with Perilous Wilds. Shit's for Dungeon World. They're not the brosr ghosts you chase.
>>98184141Ah yes, very clever to do a "Yes, that's great... but my product is better."That's definitely enough to convince people he's not a shill, so smart.
>>98182447>The ACKS shill acts like he thinks there's a single villain "amassing an army,"Lmao nobody said that.You are indisputably a single retard, but you're failing miserably at raising a personal army which is why people are making fun of you.>muh SauronAgain, nobody thinks of you as powerful or evil even though you would clearly really like that. We think of you as Ralph Wiggum.
>>98182631>No Traveller is not OSRWell duh. Traveller is actually good.
>>98184141Anon, you're talking to someone who has been ranting for the past several hours about how they're going to show them, show them all! ect ect.You're making rational arguments and it's not going to work. I'm warning you, he's just going to start screaming about the gangster computer god if you push him.
>>98184163>>98184168You're kind of just going into straight shitposting/trolling mode now. Do you actually imagine that works to distract people from the evidence against you?
>>98184118So you replied to yourself in a mean way to absolve yourself of actually posting proof by saying "look you're not asking in good faith."Also, r/TheOSR was created as a response against the (perceived/actual) pro-liberal bias of r/OSR and predates the ACKS II Kickstarter by 4 years. The Yuanti, who is a poster on both Reddit and the ACKS Discord is just a guy and you can literally search his post history, where he even speaks out against another user shilling stuff. So, as per the usual you have no actual proof. One guy saying "Crawford's stuff is gamist, while ACKS is simulationist" isn't shilling.
>>98184173What evidence? That one guy on reddit (speaking of, why don't you go back there?) has a positive opinion about Worlds Without Numbers but prefers ACKS?
>>98184118>I have this epic proof but you have to ask really nicely first!!!!fuck off then>https://www.reddit.com/user/TheYuanti/comments/>most evidence got deleted, but this one user talking to himself is all I need!so... no actual proof?
>>98184173Look, it's pretty clear by now that you're going to hoot, scream and swing on the tyre while jacking off in the middle of your pen regardless of what anyone says.God himself could descent from on-high and tell you that you're not just wrong about this, but full of shit and your immediate, instinctual response would be "Ah, so God is working for Marcis. The conspiracy really does go all the way to the top."Why would anyone engage with any point you make given the response is going to be the same for any comment from "Are you fucking mental?" right through to "Yes, I am in fact being paid to be here, mwhahahah, the triangulation van is closing in on your location as we speak."
>>98184160>>98184173Nah, you're delusional. I went and read all of the comments. They clearly like ACKS but they're using it with other systems and discussing things like reddit nerds. Buddy uses a dungeon world supplement for his Laventine campaign. Why haven't you confronted them on reddit about their shilling if you're so confident in your assessment?
>>98184181>Also, r/TheOSR was created as a response against the (perceived/actual) pro-liberal bias of r/OSR and predates the ACKS II Kickstarter by 4 yearsIt may have existed then, but it likely had the same amount of a near-absence of posters, until the ACKS group tried to use it as a platform to complain about their exile, and then it returned to being the same level of non-activity.>The Yuanti, who is a poster on both Reddit and the ACKS Discord is just a guy and you can literally search his post history, where he even speaks out against another user shilling stuff.That would be some incredible hypocrisy, which kind of fits the general character of you guys.>The Yuanti, who is a poster on both Reddit and the ACKS Discord So, a guy arrives from the ACKS discord onto Reddit, creates an account. and only posts within the short window of the ACKS2 kickstarter? That sounds like evidence of a discord asking its members to go to reddit to promote the game during its Kickstarter campaign. >One guy saying "Crawford's stuff is gamist, while ACKS is simulationist" isn't shilling.It's shilling, bruh. The guy was going around, taking any talking point he could, and using it to try and promote ACKS. Do you actually think people are dumb enough not to see that instantly?
>>98184228You seem to know a lot about Reddit, you should go back to it.
>>98182556>>acks: exists>>op: WHO THE FUCK DO YOU THINK YOU ARE???I'm OP and I never mentioned or posted about ACKS. But the thread still turned out pretty funny.
>>98184228I already posted all the comments and read them. You're a loony. Bruh.
>>98184228...bro, you're actually retarded. You have ONE guy saying positive things about ACKS and other systems. Shilling is a concentrated campaign by multiple actors, sockpuppets, scripted interactions, unscripted interactions, and people being paid for this.Anyway, if you have all this proof, why don't you go to Kickscammer with it? Just report him.
>>98184228Well, at least fishfag is going after someone else this time.
>>98184195Let me ask you this.Imagine you have to shill a game on Reddit. You're apparently vaguely aware that your posts will all be visible. How would you proceed to shill?You're extending so much benefit of the doubt to the guy, that I can only assume you're doing it in bad faith, because I have no idea what kind of smoking gun you'd need if >>98184195 isn't some incredibly obvious shilling from a self-aware shill who just happens to be incredibly stupid.
>>98184251>Shilling is a concentrated campaignFor fuck's sake.>>98182493THAT'S shilling. What you're talking about is "brigading".
>>98184260I already told you, one guy is insufficient, yes. I need direct proof of an organized shilling campaign. Like these guys ran an actual shill campaign: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correct_the_Recordhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Research_Agencyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/50_Cent_Partyhttps://www.icij.org/investigations/uber-files/uber-global-rise-lobbying-violence-technology/
>>98184265No, you retarded ESL. That's wrong.
>>98184260You're at the point of delusion where you can't imagine the existence of humans contrary to your fantasy even when it has conflicting narratives. If ACKS is so insignificant, how are there shills?Are all the anons posting here shills? There are games I like quite a bit that I tie other things into, but primarily focus on the ones I like while mentioning the addons, modifications and such. Does this make me a shill? Nerds with games get excited about things they like and use to play games.You get excited about... what? Making 2nd ed character sheets wrong? Having weird power fantasies about narcing on people to kickstarter?. Get over it.
>>98184251>You have ONE guy saying positive things about ACKS and other systems.He says positive things about other systems... before immediately saying ACKS is superior to them. He's sliding into discussions about other games just to bring up ACKS and promote it. C'mon, how much are you going to keep trying to defend such an obvious slime.Look. I know you HAVE to do pushback on this, but those 30-or so posts? That's the guy's posting history. All in the window of the ACKS2 kickstarter.If someone did the same about any other game, would you react the same way? Arrive on a forum, and make posts with a clear and obvious agenda, lacking any personality or identity beyond "promote game"?
>>98184292Don't dodge me on this. Tell me how you'd shill. Also, does >>98184240 >>98184255 count as evidence of discord brigading?
>>98184308All right, you dumbass homosexual. Let's do an analogy.>"Yeah I think it's fine to use Oriental Adventures to do a campaign set in a fantastical version of feudal Japan. It's got the rules, the classes, and the vibe. I prefer Legend of the Five Rings instead though, because it's a system that is inherently built to support Japanese-style storytelling, unlike AD&D which is still based around the paradigm of Western High Fantasy."Is the above paragraph in quotations shilling?
>>98184321>saying positive things about books you use for a different system you like is shilling >in osr The entire point is using different bits and pieces to bolt onto whatever base system you like. That's the idea. >>98184308Holyshit you're a loony.
>>98184321Funny how you recognized me on sight. You do know we're the same guy, yeah? Of course you do, you're obsessed with me, to the point where you tried to doxx me and then got banned for a month.
>>98184321>Tell me how you'd shill. I wouldn't. There's a vast array of games with enough variety for people to find what they like as they see fit. If someone asks for suggestions or advice, or why I like xyz I'll likely respond. >Also, does >>98184240 >>98184255 count as evidence of discord brigading?Does you and the hillbilly count as evidence of discord brigading? No dodging now.
>>98184327Let's put in context.Out of 30 posts, 25 of them are talking about how L5R is great or superior to other games, and that is the entirety of the posting of that account, which only occurred during a L5R kickstarter.You might as well ask me if a gun is automatically a sign someone died, when the gun you're pointing at is resting on a corpse.
>>98184353>gun is automatically a sign someone died, when the gun you're pointing at is resting on a corpseWow. I mean I know you're functionally retarded, but you would never make it as a detective. Even the fucking AI is smarter than you.
>>98184345>I wouldn't.lolBut seriously. Tell me what kind of posts you'd make if you had to shill, and shilling with the extra benefit of hindsight that your posts are tied to an account that will be visible to everyone and will even be scrutinized for evidence of shilling behavior. I'm guessing you'd do things a lot smarter than what that yuanti did.
>>98184363I already provided you examples of genuine shill campaigns. SOMEHOW you conveniently ignores that post. Hm. *strokes his chin* Curious...
>>98184353Anon there are 26 posts. 8 of of them are in the goddamn subreddit for the game they like. The other ones are in the subreddits for osr games and dnd. Where the fuck else are they going to post about the game they like? Of course they're going to post more around the kickstarter for the game they like.
>>98184362The point is that we're not looking for undeniable proof. We're looking for evidence beyond a reasonable doubt.A gun on a corpse does not automatically mean that someone died. But, that's you creating an answer to a question no one asked. The question is "did someone die" and there's literally a corpse.You've got the answer of "Does someone praising a game but recommending another mean that the person shilled" to a question no one asked, while that's just one piece of a much larger context of shilling.
>>98184363I answered your question truthfully. You ignored mine. Everyone can see you scrambling. Are you and the hillbilly's posts discord brigading?
>>98184383>A gun on a corpse does not automatically mean that someone died.>on a corpse >does not automatically mean someone has died >a corpse does not automatically mean someone has died lmao
>>98184378Buddy, you can't just beg people to pay attention to you if your posts aren't actually that interesting.And, that's a really weird dodge. I'm pretty sure we both know the answer to "how would you shill" would be "in a way that couldn't be immediately taken for systematic shilling," with some level of obfuscation thrown in. The thing is, Yuanti was either lazy or stupid or simply wasn't expecting his posts to be read all in sequence, because even by the standards of a shill trying to hide being a shill it's pretty obvious he came to Reddit with one agenda.
>>98184383The fuck we're not looking for undeniable proof. https://archive.is/0Nv3c
>>98184394Whoops, meant to say "A gun on a corpse does not automatically mean that someone died by that gun."
>>98184245One more thing, I genuinely don't know what the fuck is going on in this thread anymore lol
>>98184406>genuinely schizo transexual rant blogYou're posting that again?
>>98184394What is this schizo babble? The gun on the corpse is not indicative that someone died. The corpse is indicative that someone died. >>98184401>buddyYou're doing the hillbilly again? Which is it, fuckass? Is ACKS a tiny thing that is below everyone's radar OR is Macris dumping thousands of thousands of dollars into his own Kickstarter OR is there an organized shill campaign OR is there one guy? Which is it?
>>98184416You mean undeniable proof that there was a literal smear campaign by a group of indie RPG developers against another indie RPG developer?
>>98184412A group accused of brigading decides that they must try to disprove it......by brigading.
>>98184416>direct confessions aren't undeniable proof! >only my unsubstantiated claims I can't post proof of are undeniable proof!I already lamo out loud but here we are again.
>>98184420>What is this schizo babble? Go read the sentence again. Fish is so janked up they can't type straight even for them.
>>98184427>undeniable proofYou mean schizophrenic rambling. You do understand that you're probably the only person that sees any connective logic to it, right? I'm pretty sure you have to be the person that wrote it, because I don't think there's anyone else in the world so weirdly obsessed with whatever the fuck you're rambling about that you keep trying to spam it here.https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/text/https%3A%2F%2Farchive.is%2F0Nv3c/
>>98184432Yes, both of you have no actually reliable sources for your claims and are just grasping for whatever scraps of information you can use to justify your feelings of righteous victimhood. You're both retarded and addicted to drama.God, how did OSR discussion on here get turned into yet another proxy for the culture war? Shit sucks.
>>98184451>literal named confessions are not proof This is the level of schizophrenia you're on.
>>98184456>God, how did OSR discussion on here get turned into yet another proxy for the culture war? >Shit sucks.Artsy culture and cancel culture went hand in hand while the nerds were just glad anyone was paying attention to them for once. The pendulum swings and here we are.
>>98184460Proof of what?Most of the quotes are just people describing what they think other people were doing. Not confessions, gossip, and all about drama between e-celebs that you seem really invested in and keep trying to drag up for some unknowable reason.
>>98184498They literally say what they have done. >I have come to terms with the fact that this scene has a problem with caring more about attacking others for perceived slights than helping victims and doing good. >I have participated in it repeatedly and refused to take responsibility for the harm it caused.Generally, 'I' refers to the self. Brian Yaksha later admits to contributing. >There’s a lot of vitriol in this goddamn room to the point that like, if I were a much heavier person, like there’s a lot of fucking industrial blackmail material from it, because most of these people all they do in there is shit-talk other people I’ve worked with. And it’s just like, I mean, y’know, a toxic environment, I definitely contributed to that.
Here let's keep going. This is more people explicitly outlining what they do and for what political reasons.
>>98184531>I have come to terms with the fact that this scene has a problem with caring more about attacking others for perceived slights than helping victims and doing good.That's called gossip.>I have participated in it repeatedly and refused to take responsibility for the harm it caused.That person can only speak for themself.> because most of these people all they do in there is shit-talk other people I’ve worked with. And it’s just like, I mean, y’know, a toxic environment, That's called gossip.>I definitely contributed to that.That person can only speak for themself.Do you really not understand how this works?>>98184554And that's just some more "Here's my opinion on a group."You posted here claiming you had undeniable proof of smear campaign, and it turned out to be gossip, written in a style made to imitate an article but is little more than some rag about forum drama. What is it with you and forum drama, anyway?
>>98184590What's with you and being actually so fucked up someone saying they did a thing isn't a confession? You've backpedalled from >there is no proof >>98184498to >That person can only speak for themself.and now you're doing text book DARVO. So is you and the hillbilly brigading?
>>98184498>some unknowable reason.Zak and Macris are weirdly entwined. They have a very weird history together.They're two scumbags who do scumbag things and win scumbag prizes.Experience has taught me that bad people have a way of surrounding themselves with bad people, and the whole section of the "indie rpg" scene that they were a part of is basically just shitty people.This article>>98184406tries to come at it as if it's some sort of political problem, and that Zak was some innocent guy.>His name is Zak Smith and he is the only person I will quote here who, after four years of research, I have not been able to find harassing anyone.The big irony is that we've got Macris, after falling out with Zak, throwing him under the bus and saying he tried to cancel somebody and then stole money from Mac and called him transphobic.Maybe it's why the writer of that blog post ended up deleting it, because, surprise surprise, it wasn't really a political conspiracy against Zak, Zak is just a shitty person and shitty people end up shitting on and getting shit on by other shitty people.Same thing with Macky-boy. He's a shitty guy, and does shitty things, and gets his game banned from different sites as a prize.
>>98184590You mean the exact same as the gossip you're posting?
>>98184649You're so retarded, you think I give a fuck about either Macris or Smith. I don't give a shit about them as people. Macris made a system that I like. Smith did not. But your unsubstantiated claims about ACKS are exactly in the same vein as the ones about Smith. There's the fact that you're an admitted predditor, so odds are good you're part of the mindless horde that jumps on people that "internet personalities" told you to cancel. I like fish economics in my games.
>>98173480He was right
>>98184599There is no proof of a smear campaign like you claimed. It's people just saying their opinion on groups of people without any actual proof that they knew the motivations of those other people, only their own motivations.If you joined a PETA protest, and then said "Everyone is really only here to try and get laid by easy vegan chicks. It's why I'm here," then it really wouldn't be fair to say that the PETA protest was nothing more than a way for vegans to hook up; some people might actually be there because they care about animals.
>>98182876ACKS discussion mostly takes place on the Autarch discord which is pretty active. For years the occasional ACKS thread would show up on /r/osr but obviously not since they banned it for wrongthink.
>>98184671Back to deny again. I'm sorry your head is so fucked people saying >I did this thing isn't proof enough for you but someone posting about a game they like is proof of shilling. So to take a page from your book, despite the fishy smell, you refusing to answer means you are actually brigading right? That's the conspiracy.
>>98184664>But your unsubstantiated claims about ACKS are exactly in the same vein as the ones about Smith. Man, fuck off with your "if I refuse to accept evidence, it doesn't count" bullshit already.You have your bias. Fine. You've made it clear you will always let that bias blind you and you will only ever argue in bad faith. But, keep it in your discord. If you can't handle your shitty person being called shitty because you have disastrously bad taste in games, stay in your hugbox and stop trying to poison public discourse with such insane bias that you could look at one of the most obvious shill accounts of all time and try and argue he's not a shill because he said something good about WWN. >here's the fact that you're an admitted predditorI do not go to reddit beyond when google sends me there. I certainly don't post there. And, when it comes down to a question like "why was this guy banned from reddit?", that unfortunately means having to visit that site in order to get all that "evidence" that you're so desperate to see and even more desperate to dismiss in bad faith. >so odds are good you're part of the mindless horde that jumps on people that "internet personalities" told you to cancel.The odds are that you're part of the ACKS discord, and are part of a mindless horde that is so bad at discussing their game that they got the game banned from several websites. Everything from your "accuse everyone of being one person" to your "dismiss all evidence" is just bad faith tactics from people who've spent too much time in a hugbox and have an inflated sense of themselves. It's why you struggle here, because you refuse to adapt and learn how people actually discuss things like non-mindless hordes.
>>98184699Saying "i did this thing" does not translate into "we did this thing."
>>98184715And again the dodge. They said >I did this thing and so did everyone in my group Its in the first fucking quote you liar. >>98184531
>>98184649God, why is this particular little corner of elfgames filled with so much drama and unstable personalities? You don't hear about this sort of shit from the Traveller or Runequest communities.
>>98184717Don't call someone a liar when you're trying to twist quotes into a narrative they don't support.You've claimed- >>98184427>undeniable proof that there was a literal smear campaign by a group of indie RPG developers against another indie RPG developerAnd there's nothing even close to resembling "undeniable proof" of anything of the sort. You've got people bitching about a toxic environment that they participated in. That's pretty much 95% of the internet. There's nothing to indicate it was a coordinated smear campaign, or that the "confessors" had any special insight into the motivations of anyone else.
>>98184733lol only one of those is me. You're terrible at this and everyone can see. >>98184724Traveller and runequest didn't have an artsy popularity surge that made it appealing to various politically motivated communities. The anon you're replying to is very likely at this point from one of the >everything is political >no bad tactics only bad targets sort of groups.
>>98184724Lack of talent, probably.You know those annoying little rat-like dogs that are hyper-aggressive and will attack even much larger dogs but then immediately run off if the other dog just barks at them? Think of a pit filled with those dogs.
>>98184711You haven't provided a shred of evidence. You posted one guy that praised both ACKS and another system. >>98184733>dismissing 4-year research with citations and quotesOh u>there's nothing close to resembling "undeniable truth"So you're a lying faggot and a hypocrite.
You heard it here folks! Fishfag actually admits to not having evidence. I'm screencapping this lmao so I can just shut down all discussion the next time you post.
>>98184838>You posted one guy that praised both ACKS and another system. ......You can't be serious.Saying one system is good before saying its competitor is superior is a slimeball move, especially when it's part of a chain of posts that only exist to promote/defend that competitor.The guy was literally just inserting himself into a discussion about WWN in order to shill ACKS.
>>98184876Bro, how stupid are you? You can SEE HIS POST HISTORY. He was literally talking about ACKS in a thread about ACKS and Alexander Macris or when answering a general question with "I like the way ACKS does X." Let me ask you, if someone asks "Which TTRPG does domain management?" is answering "ACKS" shilling?
>>98184838>dismissing 4-year research with citations and quotesResearch? That's an opinion piece, don't mistake it for anything else, and the quotations do not sufficiently support the blogger's conclusions. It's genuinely hilarious that you brought up those 4-years, because>His name is Zak Smith and he is the only person I will quote here who, after four years of research, I have not been able to find harassing anyone.In 4 years, they didn't find Zak trying to harass anyone and built their entire argument around that with him as some sort of innocent victim. But->>98184649-we've got your daddy Macris saying Zak did try to harass someone, and otherwise demonstrated that he's generally a piece of shit. Didn't take 4 years to find, barely took any time at all. Who are we supposed to believe now? Your blog post, or your daddy?
>>98184889>quotations do not sufficiently support the blogger's conclusionsAccording to whom?> I have not been able to find harassing anyoneAmazing! There was all these court cases that found Zak Smith to be innocent and yet here you, sitting on some sort of evidence that Zak Smith is in fact guilty. Wow! Would you perhaps share this evidence with the rest of us.>MacrisWhy would I give a fuck about what he says? He says a lot of stuff I disagree with.
>>98184886Yes, he was making posts that weren't entirely the most blatant shilling. That's probably what got the mods to extend to him the benefit of the doubt to not delete his account like they did with so many others. But, we're talking about the most half-assed effort, what may be the absolute bare minimum for someone like you to even attempt to pretend that we should extend a rather ridiculous benefit of the doubt to him. But, they don't excuse that most of his posts were some of the most blatant shill posts imaginable. They are posts that barely sound human. And, the entire account only existing in the small window of the few months preceding the ACKS2 kickstarter and then stopping just as soon as the kickstarter ended makes it pretty clear he came to Reddit with a particular agenda.Agenda-oriented posting is pretty fucked up; people inserting themselves into communities just to try and convert people to one idea or another is already pretty bad, but to do so just to promote a product is frankly disgusting.
>>98184933What you're saying is an opinion piece, don't mistake it for anything else, and the quotations do not sufficiently support the blogger's (that is to say your) conclusions.
>>98184933And inserting yourself into a community from another community to do a disinfo campaign, getting banned from IRC and constantly getting BTFO by the jannies, that's not "frankly disgusting?" AKA it's okay if you do it?
>>98184903>here was all these court cases that found Zak Smith to be innocentInnocent of what? Being some sort of scumbag?I'm pretty sure he's some sort of scumbag. Hell, just looking at the stuff he's made makes it clear he's at least a douchebag if not a scumbag, though I'm still pretty sure he's a scumbag.I didn't even know he was put on trial for being some sort of scumbag, or that you could be put on trial for that. >Why would I give a fuck about what he says? He says a lot of stuff I disagree with.Because he's accusing Zak of being a scumbag. And a pretty big scumbag, according to Mac-boy. >>98184649Hell, I'm perfectly happy to cede that Zak is actually a perfect innocent angel unfairly targeted by an evil group trying to slander if unjustly, if that means we also include Maccy-boy in that group.So, which is it?Everyone, including Zak, is a piece of shit and they just tried to backstab and out-drama each other because they're all horrible people.orZak is an innocent victim of hate crimes by an evil campaign of slander organized by indie creators, which includes Macris lying about him stealing money from him and trying to force Macris to help him cancel someone over politics, which are pretty extreme accusations.I personally think the former, but think whatever you want.
>>98184978Neither. What we have here, ESL-kun is evidence (not proof) of a conspiracy to defame someone. But unlike your evidence, there are multiple people that are cited and have audio of doing these shitty things. You also have a court case saying that Zak Smith is formally not charged with any wrongdoing. What you have is one guy that perhaps likes ACKS too much.
>>98184938You're very fair.It's actually incredibly hard to get 100% confirmation of a shill shilling. Very few shills provide signed confessions of their activities. As it is, it's really just a question of reading the posts and deciding for yourself if he may be a shill. There is just one thing though.>the quotations do not sufficiently support the blogger's (that is to say your) conclusions.We're not talking about undeniable proof. We're talking about evidence that would sufficiently support a claim, not prove it in a way that someone like you couldn't deny it, which is probably impossible to obtain.It's really up to each person to decide for themselves if the quotations support the conclusions. Like, reading this gem and saying whether is sounds like a shill wrote it.
>>98184996So you're a hypocrite. We already knew that from here: >>98184838
>>98184993> evidence (not proof) of a conspiracy to defame someone.I'm glad we're past whoever was talking about "undeniable proof", but we're still only looking at fairly weak gossip about a conspiracy.>a court case saying that Zak Smith is formally not charged with any wrongdoing.Not any legally enforceable wrongdoing, maybe? It's pretty much guaranteed that he's a scumbag though, and I'm not really sure what's the point of pretending he's an innocent baby angel in order to further pretend that it was leftist politics at play and not just people generally not liking the guy from all sides. Macris isn't exactly left-handed, and he seemed more than happy to defame him considerably and call Zak's character into question.
