Manacle and Coin Edition>What is Exalted?An epic high-flying role-playing game about reborn god-heroes in a world that turned on them.Start here:http://theonyxpath.com/category/worlds/exalted/>That sounds cool, how can I get into it?Read the 3e core book (link below). For mechanics of the old edition, play this tutorial:http://mengtzu.github.io/exalted/sakuya.htmlIt'll get you familiar with most of the mechanics.>Gosh that was fun. How do I find a group?Roll20 and the Game Finder General here on /tg/. good luck>Resources for Third Edition>3E Core and Splatshttps://www.mediafire.com/folder/b54o6teut3fx6/Exalted_3e>Errata for Third Editionhttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1n3ooTmopm3CBxW5jwPp1761xsaIccea-5XIhVM_PQEc/edit>Other Ex3 Resourceshttps://pastebin.com/fG1mLMdu (embed)>Resources for Older Editionshttps://pastebin.com/BXSGuFdQ (embed)>Exalted Hacks (incl ExWoD, Demake, Quixalted)https://pastebin.com/YQ9BYUJF (embed)>Stuff that might be interestinghttps://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/the-exalted-thread-with-no-original-ideas.317216/Ongoing Campaign: https://www.backerkit.com/c/projects/onyx-path/exalted-essence-storyteller-s-guidePrevious thread: >>98153604>Thread Question: How have you depicted slavery across Creation?
>>98178896>Thread Question: How have you depicted slavery across Creation?Generally as the reward for the powerful if you risk yourself to protect civilization then you are entitled to its benefits including slaves, drugs and other diversions.
>>98178896I try to handle it the same way it's handled in TES3. It's an every day part of life in the setting, a horrible thing and something that's really good for building a power fantasy, whether you're playing a good or bad guy. "Free all the slaves" and "Enslave Creation" are peak power fantasy. It also just depends on how the books say they're treated in whatever place, as some slaves are more servants/serfs in Exalted.But basically TES3.
>>98178805>no rebuttal>just seethingI accept your admission of defeat.
>>98179077>2+2=fish>debate meKill yourself.
>>98179104>still no argument just emotional spergingSlave IQ confirmed.
>>98179077Moorcock? What are you doing here?
>>98179237Sounds like More Cock.
>>98179285Unfortunately he isn't this kind of fag.
Is it absolutely necessary to carry a dumb, not even really Exalted-related argument from the last thread into this one?>>98178896>>Thread Question: How have you depicted slavery across Creation?Usually as just sort of a fact of life, something constantly going on in the background. If players pay more attention to slaves then it's obvious that being a slave sucks and that slavery's horrible, but I don't, like, rub it into the faces of players or anything like that. I'm not going to pretty up or justify slavery, but I feel like focusing on it overmuch can easily feel like pushing players to either do something about it or feel like shitbags, and I also feel like letting slavery just be this generally accepted background thing is sort of a more "period-appropriate" perspective than making a big deal out of it. Obviously slavery's actually a big deal, but modern Western people don't really need some nerd running a game for them to preach to them about evils of slavery to know that it's bad, and getting into the head of a character from a different time and culture where views on slavery are very different should, in my opinion, be the default when playing in Creation. Not to say that I'd have anything against abolitionist PCs, and if someone made one I'd obviously focus more on slavery and everything wrong with it. I haven't had such PCs so far, though. I've had two PCs in games I've ran interact more with slavery, but in both cases it was a character running a business that was either mostly operated by slaves or directly about slave trade, and in neither case was the character really personally interacting with slaves much.
>>98179869I've been a PC in an evil game where we lobotomized the servants and such but I've never really tried it in Exalted. People without freewill are just more useful then zombies if "lacks freewill" doesn't mean they're stupid.
>>98179869>Is it absolutely necessary to carry a dumb, not even really Exalted-related argument from the last thread into this one?Yes.>Not to say that I'd have anything against abolitionist PCs, and if someone made one I'd obviously focus more on slavery and everything wrong with it.That's because once you open that door it tends to become the center of attention and most people don't want to define what the game is about when they are on the PC side of the table, people expect the ST to have a plot line they want to tell.
In an ExWoD or otherwise modern game, what do you think would be a good way to turn a leak into something officious enough to count for Faultless Ceremony?
Patiently waiting for Alchemicals backer pdf.
>>98180134Depends on what is leaked, most of the time, an internal announcement should be enough to get the ball rolling. "Yes, we are aware we had a data breach. The ones responsible for such a leak WILL be punished to the fullest extent of the law." or something along those lines.
>>98180299cool stuff, thanks for the art.
>>98178896>Thread Question: How have you depicted slavery across Creation?There's a range of slave treatment I've used. On the worst end are the slaves that are slated for sacrifice or personality death, including everyone going out to the fae or to pay off demons/gods/undead or to be a sorcerer's test subject, who are treated as uppity merchandise and animals to be beaten down viciously because them being useful in any way beyond possessing a functioning body and soul is not meaningful to their worth as trade items. This type of slavery I portray as being fucking awful for everybody involved and kind of clandestine for purveyors of the trade, trying to keep it out of the public eye (and the eye of PCs) who find it despicable. Out of sight out of mind, and a trader of this kind who doesn't keep it quiet doesn't make friends. Guildsmen live and die on the friends they can make and keep.Up from that are the slaves who are meant to do grunt work, who are treated as soulless machines which are beaten in the same way you might hit or shout at a machine in the hopes it will start working, but it's very rare for them to be underfed, unsheltered, or severely mistreated - if only because slaves of this type who are noticed acting out of line, whether in a negative manner (misbehaving) or positive manner (showing an exceptional trait like beauty or intelligence), get shifted out of this category quickly. It's possibly worth noting slaves in the Threshold of this type are actually soulless more often than not. These slaves I portray as existing in the background but never stepping forward of their own will, very much like peasants but for organized business and without anyone advocate on their behalf unless there's someone cooking a revolt (but there rarely is).Then there's the various kinds of skilled labor, which are treated indistinguishably from servants except that they can't quit - so, indistinguishably.
>>98180299Has anyone here used the jadeborn in their games?
Do Lunars have any Environmental Manipulation charms? If they don't it seems like warping space and physically transforming things outside of themselves would be something they can use that falls within Luna's themes.
>>98181533They gained territory charms in 2e and 3e, and were implied to have them in 1e.
>>98181533They can shape individual objects and there is some Sorcery to shape the terrain but I don't remember the specifics.
>>98181533Nope sorry. Turning into (100% mundane) animals is the best we can do.-t. the devs
>>98181694To be fair, it's not like their predecessors had too much stuff and the dev felt the need to correct it.
>>98181694I hate to say this but the magical animal / animal divide is one of the things that honestly bug me about Exalted and it feels so DnD that I wish they handled it differently. Mechanically I get it, it's a nightmare to become any magical creature with their stats and charms, free flight and lightning breath from being a Gryphon or something, but it just doesn't... make sense in setting.You let them turn into any magical creature and they're suddenly drastically more powerful then Solars, that's an insane amount of free stuff that no one else can get with Lunar charm access. Lunars flat out dominating Solars would suck. There has to be some middle ground but I don't know what it is.
>>98181733Exalted isn't really a magical world, and the setting and mechanics are designed around our world logic instead of Creation's.>lunars power creeping solars.This is easy to solve, just make solars Hercules, instead of mystery men with an advantage, or do what QEanon did.
>>98181770>This is easy to solve, just make solars Hercules, instead of mystery men with an advantageElaborate?>or do what QEanon did.Elaborate?
>>98181770>Exalted isn't really a magical worldI swear I've read this before and it always came across as a meta thing. What I mean is if people in the setting just call it some animal then it should just be an "animal". Plus, getting people into the mindset of someone in Creation seems really helpful.I get not being able to turn into Rawrrawr Tiger God of Tigers but I should be able to turn into the Children of Rawrrawr which are just extra large fire breathing Tigers.
>>98181824It is a meta thing, as seen in the above lunar discussion; lunars are based on the irl concept of werewolf, not in the in creation concept of a shapeshifter.It is similar to the animal zoan from one piece, despite OP having several fantastical creatures, they only have real creatures to choose from.
>>98181733It feels like Lunars should be using Shapeshifting to Adjust their Attributes. Entering their "Warform" should be them combining the things they've eaten to get their best combination of Caste Attributes. Their "Warform" should also serve the role of their Anima Banner. >Full Moon Lunar enters "Warform".>Their "Warform" combines their Totems with the Highest Strength, Dexterity and Stamina.>In addition they can spend Five motes to double their Dexterity (For Running and Leaping) and Strength (For Feats Of Strength) for the scene.
>>98181824>I get not being able to turn into Rawrrawr Tiger God of Tigers butBut Luna can. Why can't her Chosen?
>>98182058>Lunars aren't based on lunaT. Morke
What counts as armor for the purposes of Optimistic Security Practice's restriction?Just things designed to be armor, any wearable that offers Soak, do things like Invulnerable Skin of Bronze count too...?
>>98180257How about when you want the leak to spread, and make some kind of whistleblowing Faultless Ceremony? Any ideas?
>>98182673In that case you would need to be part of an organization dealing with the leaked information. For example the guy informally joins WikiLeaks or makes a pornhub account and writes down a letter/description saying "this is incredibly fucked up, react to it" and depending on the chosen and the material people could riot or share the sex tape that was leaked.
>>98181733Being more powerful than Solars is what lunarfags actually want.
>>98182567>What counts as armor for the purposes of Optimistic Security Practice's restriction?I don't know it offhand. Could you repost the text please?
>>98182058Because it's a pain to balance, which matters a whole lot more for Lunars, who are a playable splat, than for Luna, who is an Essence 10 Incarna who's not a part of vast majority of games, who might never get a writeup for 3E and who, even if she does get a writeup and even considering that she did get a writeup in 2E, is a singular individual and not a PC.
>>98183019This kind of short-sighted thinking is what killed Exalted.
A Melee-supernal gets dumped in the middle of the USA, with artifacts and other merits. Chargen xp. Can he take on the US military?
>>98183036Easily.
>>98183036A guy with a modern rifle can mote tap him from a mile away.
>>98183067Assume gun = archery for the sake of balance.>>98183057I don't follow, I meant the army, not the cadets or whatever you call the kid version
>>98183019Heart Eaters do it just fine.
>>98183031Short-sighted thinking would be just putting in whatever's cool without thinking what it means in practice.
>>98183075>Assume gun = archery for the sake of balance.If we're making these kinds of concessions from the get go then I think that answers your question.
>>98183094That was standard for Modern settings. Are you saying Melle Dawn can take on the army and win?
>>98183094You need to translate the mechanics to reality, and vice-versa.Guns are covered or replace archery in modern games.
>>98183107>>98183102If the US military is armed with bows instead of guns, then maybe he can take them, sure.
>>98183075>I don't follow, I meant the army, not the cadets or whatever you call the kid versionKek
>>98183082Heart-Eaters do it with stiff limitations, such as not being able to take pawns with Essence higher than theirs and not being able to combine their own Charms with powers of their supernaturally powered pawns. Heart-Eaters also have to take a specific Charm to be able to take supernatural pawns and another to be able to use their powers, and pawns have weaknesses shapeshifting doesn't have, such as some Charms being able to free pawns. Lunars would also need to have limitations of that order if they were able to take on the shapes and powers of supernatural beings. >>98183067>>98183094Even if guns are treated as distinct from Archery, each bullet sure as fuck wouldn't be mechanically handled as a separate attack and mote tapping an Exalt wouldn't be nearly as simple as you seem to think.
>>98183168>each bullet sure as fuck wouldn't be mechanically handled as a separate attackSure it would.And the fact that we have to neuter them so hard just from the get go speaks volumes.
>>98183192>Sure it would.If you shoot single shots, one per round, sure. Otherwise, no, and that's not in context of Exalted, specifically, just a general statement about how to best represent firearms.
>>98183019This post is painfully asinine.>it's a pain to balanceFind a way to balance it then. You introduce a mechanic, you find a way to balance it and make it fun, not half-ass it while drunk and half asleep.>which matters a whole lot more for Lunars, who are a playable splat, than for Luna, who is...their patron and the source of their powers. Luna's out there shifting into countless forms, skinwalkering Raksha Princes, and milking her Moon themes for all they're worth while her Chosen are... turning into housecats. Not even bakeneko, just regular ass housecats. Do you see the problem yet?
>>98183192In wod, it isn't
>>98183211>>98183227If the US military is armed with bows (painted to look like guns) instead of guns, then maybe he can take them, sure.
>>98183217>Find a way to balance it then. You introduce a mechanic, you find a way to balance it and make it fun, not half-ass it while drunk and half asleep.That's an argument for why the person suggesting the mechanic should also offer a suggestion on how to balance it, if anything. One way to balance things is obviously just to not have that mechanic.>...their patron and the source of their powers. Luna's out there shifting into countless forms, skinwalkering Raksha Princes, and milking her Moon themes for all they're worth while her Chosen are... turning into housecats. Not even bakeneko, just regular ass housecats. Do you see the problem yet?Might you consider mechanics and mechanical balance rather than lore for a while, and maybe also address the point about Lunars being balanced mattering more than Luna being balanced while you're at it?
Don't lunars already get the animal's not!charms? Spiders already break the action economy, breathing fire is a minor issue, that could easily be handled with natural weapons.
>>98183246Try to focus for a moment, anon. The point about each individual bullet not being a separate attack is not Exalted-specific. It's how a lot of games in a modern or future setting handle things, because obviously when you fire a burst with an automatic weapon, each bullet's chances of hitting its mark isn't independent from every other bullet. Handling the burst as a single attack, with modifiers of some sort, the exact details depending on the system, is not only mechanically simpler and faster but also just plain more realistic than handling every bullet separately. Therefore, and this is in the context of Exalted, a single dodge or parry would defend against the whole burst. If you just shoot single shots, then sure, every bullet is its own attack, but then you get one attakc per round, the same as anyone else, and you're not going to motetap anyone before an Exalt closes in and punches you like that.
>>98183290Okay. This is still the answer to your question though >>98183246
>>98183299That doesn't seem to be the case, as making one attack per round has little chance of mote tapping an Exalt.
>>98183267I mean I kinda like the vision of Lunars getting a Chimeric Form that functions as their version of an Anima Banner. >Form has a mix of the not!charms from the creatures they've consumed. >Can still use the Banner Effects listed in Prior Editions>Features of the Form become Mutations once they get enough Peripheral Essence.
>>98183067Depends entirely on the build Solars can tank bullets or move fast enough it would be difficult to even hit him.
>>98183392They can barely even achieve that against bow and arrows though.
>>98183405Those bows and arrows are magical in nature, though.
>>98183415Uh huh.
>>98183405Because the one wielding the bow is another demigod.
>>98183420Except it works the same way even when it isn't.
>>98183405https://youtu.be/mJEHsbFDrT0Because normal bows used by regular mortals can do stuff like this, right?
>>98183427So do guns work the same as bows or not?Pick a lane.
>>98183449You genuinely seem so confused. I'll just leave you to it.
>>98183427The way completely mundane attacks work is that they don't have a great chance of hitting an Exalt using defensive Charms. Guns would probably inflict some kind of a penalty to an opponent's Defense, but Charms negating Defense penalties would obviously take care of that.
>>98183449Guns are assumed to use the archery mechanics (including charms), perhaps with range bands increased in the distance they cover. Snipers still need to aim to hit at long range
>>98183449Anon's lane is saying whatever he thinks will annoy you. I fell for it, too, but it's becoming pretty obvious at this point.
>>98183455He also expects the Solar will be basically a stationary target just waiting to be killed.
>>98183455Yes, Exalts need to burn through motes just to effectively defend themselves against regular arrows from regular bows shot by regular people.Ergo they're going to tear their asses in half trying to defend themselves against a gun, and not gun colored bows, but actual, modern guns. And we're still talking about basic bitch assault rifles and not any of the US military's other toys.
>>98183500Sorry but exalted rape normies armies pretty easily.Hell their attacks are so inconsequential that a mass volley of bullets would only count as one attack at best.
>>98183500The same defenses that work against arrows, work against firearms.>>>Even if the Charm is 'Reflexive,' usually you don't hear the gunshot until after the bullet has passed through you. Yet, you can't really activate the Charm before the attack, especially if you're standing there waiting for him to pull the trigger but don't know exactly when he will. That's the scenario I was picturing.<<<>You have some unexamined baggage there about guns, and possibly haven't read enough kung fu epics. In Wing Shing-Ma's "Storm Riders", people have multi-page coversations while arrows race toward them. Mere bullets wouldn't be any more dangerous to an Exalt than any other attack. It's certainly easier to avoid than the Death of Obsidian Butterflies. You'd either need an epic rifle or a supernatural sniper.
>>98183513It would be an environmental hazard.
>>98183500Spending 2 motes on Dipping Swallow Defense to ignore whatever penalties might normally be involved when defending against firearms isn't going to make a huge difference compared to whatever an Exalt would use to defend against bows. Using 5 motes to activate Fivefold Bulwark Stance will make getting mote tapped even less likely.
>rising to the bait this eagerlyCome on, /exg/ can't be THAT slow today.
>>98183513>>98183525>>98183563You're still here >>98183246Which shouldn't even be a problem for you according to your logic so I'm not sure why you're still replying to me.
Using EXvsWOD rules2 motes + 1 willpower for bulkward and excellency and you are invincible for the whole fight.
>>98183587We are just rubbing your snout in the pigsty at this point.
>>98183587We're replying to you because you obviously remain confused about the fundamental matter of how guns work in real life and how they'd be best represented in games. That's all.
>>98183621Or that anon is a troll, or a strange form of autism.
>>98183639True, true.
>>98182883Given the strength of their predecessors, that's a given.
>>98183036Given the right artifacts allowing them to fuck off from an engagement and refuel, yeah even if it becomes a matter of guerrilla warfare.
>>98180299this art is great, please get hired to make official art.
>>98184005Real artists are making furry porn to defeat AI
>>98184005The problem will be that he won't be allowed to draw characters like this.He will have some retard telling him to draw ugly characters on purpose.There would have to be a complete change of the people directing the art side of things.
>>98178896Does anyone have any good art of LGBTQ Exalted characters please? Also, how have you used the Guild in your games?
Here is the next part of the essence ST guide.https://www.mediafire.com/file/n5tq8wr20uf0h11/ExEss+STG+Draft+Part+3A.pdf/file
>>98184336thank you.
>>98183036Take on is an interesting question, as it depends very heavily on what the strategic goal of the Exalt is and what Charms exactly he has. Lets look at my own Circle, who are ExWoD with some house rules so this isn't an entirely theoretical debate. >The Abyssal. The Abyssal is a Dusk Caste with Eye of the Tempest, Splinter in the Mind's Eye, Infallible Bargein Meist and about twenty other Charms most of which are mobility or combat. He can lift about 40 tons, run about 120 MPH, jump hundreds of feet through the air, and fight through men by the thousands. He could decimate an army battalion, even a tank battalion with my altered rules for them and Battlegroups, but if they started bombing his position he has no Perfects and would have to go to ground. With perfect stealth and tracking and various assassination Charms he could go after their command and there wouldn't be anything they could do, but he'd be playing hit and run or acting like a ninja, he couldn't take the whole military on an open field. He's mote-tap eventually or run for the nearest Trod when they start dropping big bombs.>The Solar. The Eclipse Caste is a social/bureaucracy main, but he does have Fivefold Bulwark Stance and Adamant Skin Technique. He could fight off an army battalion, but any kind of armored vehicle his damage just isn't good enough and Battlegrouping would make the fight harder for him not easier. He can survive saturation bombing better than the Abyssal but has no mobility so he's nowhere to go. His end game would be to find someone to talk to and it'd turn into Ar-Pharazon capturing Sauron. He'd be running the place in a week.>The Lunar. The No Moon is helpless, she's a sorcerer-crafter and army commander. She survives this fight by not starting it. Ideally she'd be in the Umbra commanding armies of spirits or chimera to fight America instead because ten guys with machine guns are downing her in a few seconds. [1/2]
>>98184430>The Infernal. The Urge of the Destroyer can pick up skyscrapers, fly over Mach 1 in Shintai, and in Shintai has 38 Soak. Under the rules I use she could survive fourteen nukes before succumbing to the damage, and the radiation is delicious. She can step-sideways, control any electronic by looking at it, and has an inner world she can open a portal to like Loki in the first Avengers. America could kill her by just locking her down and nuking her over, and over, and over, and over again but if they tried that she'd just bail somewhere and come at this another way.In practice regardless of edition, most Exalt vs modern army looks like one of the first three, and lunatic Sun Wukong warmonkies look like my Infernal if the ST is on the same page with you. In all cases "One Exalt vs large organized group with a lot of resources" really comes down to having an objective to go for, Exalts can't just bash through fight after fight indefinitely with no agenda.
>>98184336thank you very much>>98178896here are the ones this kind anon has already provided ushttps://www.mediafire.com/file/5tq29yoeeskvv5v/ExEss+STG+Draft+Part+1.pdf/filehttps://www.mediafire.com/file/ml5ilvxzr05tiy3/ExEss+STG+Draft+Part+2A.pdf/filehttps://www.mediafire.com/file/6ps6so72omgrp19/ExEss+STG+Draft+Part+2B.pdf/file
>>98184005Then he won't have time to work on his fanfics. Which are good shit.
>>98183545Mass produced artifacts that generate long range AOE environmental hazards could actually be the way to fight in 3e.
>>98184620>Then he won't have time to work on his fanfics. Which are good shit.Speaking of fanfics, do you guys have any stories crossing over with Exalted?
>>98182567>>98182908>What counts as armor for the purposes of Optimistic Security Practice's restriction?>I don't know it offhand. Could you repost the text please?2e>The Sidereal catches the destinies of weapons or other sources of damage in a net of Essence. This Charm raises her bashing, lethal and aggravated soak by an amount equal to her Essence. In addition, opponents whose Essence is lower than the Sidereal’s Compassion must spend one Willpower point any time they take an action intended to damage or disable her. (This expenditure must be separate from Willpower spent for bonus successes or to channel Virtues.) If an opponent does not do so, the action fails automatically.>The Sidereal cannot benefit from this Charm while she is wearing armor.ExWoD>The Sidereal passes a hand over the weave of fate, infecting it with her own generosity of spirit. The universe becomes very protective of her, turning aside all sources of harm.>System: The Sidereal reflexively spends 1 Essence. For the rest of the scene, she adds her Empathy rating to her soak dice (minimum of +1 die added). Any being whose Willpower rating is lower than the Sidereal’s Empathy must spend one Willpower point each time they attack her, or the attack automatically fails.>This Charm doesn’t function if the Sidereal is wearing armor: destiny frowns on those who hedge their bets.
>>98185010RAW it seems to mean just regular armor, but RAI it feels like it encompasses all sources of extra Soak.
How good are the ExWoD ancient sorceries? Any particular ones to get or avoid?Some like Impervious Sphere of Water feel weird, but maybe I'm just not seeing their true intended use
>>98185239Hot garbage. Exalted proper sorcery isn't that good and with only Terrestrial-tier magic to work with its just not that useful outside of a few effects like Invulnerable Skin of Bronze. When I ran I rewrote alot of these and ported magic from Exalted proper over. An honorable mention goes out to Iron Shade Binding for not having a summons limit like Emerald Spirit Binding, and Emerald itself isn't *awful* as written if you don't mind collecting Nexus Crawlers like Pokemon.
>>98185260>Iron Shade Binding for not having a summons limit like Emerald Spirit BindingI wonder if this was a simple mistake from Holden or that spirits are generally more powerful than ghosts.
>>98185269Idk. My group's Lunar used Iron Shade to great effect alongside Raise the Skeletal Horde and a homebrew spell I did called Onyx Shade Binding which summoned more powerful ghosts but *did* have a limit of Essence+2 bound ghosts at once. Oh and how could I forget, Calibration Gate. IT is so worth it to get Calibration Gate, it lets you open a door to *any* Umbra OR the Dreaming. Getting to the Near Dreaming without a Trod is hilariously useful. Man she abused that spell.
>>98185179RAI might get weird with stuff like the Magical Materials Form, then, since it grants multiple benefits and only one of them is extra soak
>>98185286>it lets you open a door to *any* Umbra OR the Dreaming.Even High Umbra?(And can it also open the way back, iirc there was some blood thaumaturgy or something that risked getting you stranded in the Umbra)
>>98185260What about Flight of the Brilliant Raptor?15 dice of aggravated damage sounds good at first glance, but I guess it could be too expensive or slow.
>>98185239Sorcery works well as a way to expand your toolbox to solve problems and remember you can take werewolf rituals and turn them into spells.>>98185302It works extremely well if you take it as your signature spell so it only costs you 1 essence.
>>98185297Yes to both. Its really good. >>981853024 Essence is a pretty steep cost for a mediocre AoE. If you can get its casting time to one turn it becomes situationally useful, if you can't [or if your ST uses Battlegroups like I do] its a total joke. Also worth noting that 15 dice is a buff from the original release, which is what I play[ed]. It was 12.
>>98185308>It works extremely well if you take it as your signature spell so it only costs you 1 essence.Right, right. I'm guessing that sorcery is a bad idea for No Moons and Chosen of Secrets that can't purchase a version of the charm to discount spells, despite still being occult-like celestials?
>>98185336I'd just port those Charms, and the higher Circle spells from First Edition, regardless of what Caste you are.
>>98185286>Getting to the Near Dreaming without a Trod is hilariously useful. Man she abused that spell.Any examples? Not as familiar with Changeling as with some of the other splats
>>98185359The Near Dreaming is like the Penumbra, but nobody can step sideways into the Dreaming. Instead if you have faerie senses [can see and effect Chimerical Reality] you can enter it at certain places called Trods. Trods aren't just gateways through, their pathways of static reality in the otherwise ever-changing Dreaming. So you go down a train tunnel thats a Trod and seem to vanish as you end up in a version of the train track in the Near Dreaming. That track leads into the Far Dreaming or even the Deep Dreaming. Each level in you go reality becomes less like Earth and more likely to change if you leave the Trod. Its like a fairy tale, don't leave the path and you'll be fine.Just opening a portal means you get there with no Trod. Which is *technically* dangerous but the Near Dreaming is pretty stable. Real benefit is nobody outside the Kithain and fae-related subsplats in other lines tend to know its a thing. You won't find Void Engineers fucking around in fairyland. So my Circle used it to duck and cover on multiple occassions.The irony of Celestial Exalts still hiding out in "the Wyld" 100,000 years later was not lost on me.
>>98183036Depends on the build.Can A Chargen Solar with Melee supernal - as in, any of the various chargen Solars out there in 3e - take on the US military, with the perfect storm of actions and charms? Yes, absolutely. Many of the Solars in that range take 0 Melee and 0 Melee charms, opting instead to do basic stealth/disguise crap. Any Solar could take Influence 5 (The United States Executive Branch) and be 95% of the way there. Hell, this scenario doesn't even say that the US military is actively pursuing you and just assumes you run at them until they notice and start counterattacking, but there's nothing saying the Solar can't just walk out of the middle of nowhere and into town to start cult building.I think a chargen 3e Solar who went all in on optimizing Melee combat and immediately antagonizes the US military is probably going to die, though. It's not as bad as >>98183067, guns have received canon stats before and don't do that in Exalted (and also 3e characters are ridiculously fast once they get into long/extreme rangeband sprints compared to any IRL individuals, and only take seconds to get there), but a chargen Melee autist is probably not able to fly or attack flying targets at significant range, and is probably not going to be able to break contact or go mote positive, especially once the military get read in on how Exalted work (someone will have read the books) and find out they have limited mote pools vulnerable to persistent attacks.
>>98183036Not without support skills.
>>98185695I mean. Average US Soldier is gonna be rolling like 8 dice to hit? Melee supernal can get ignore onslaught penalty scene long easily and base parry of 8-9 without spending motes. Solars are effectively immune to guns in that regard. We are allowing artifacts so His soak is gonna be like 20+ after Plate, Skin of Bronze, and Stamina and guns aren't artifacts so even if they hit its gonna be 1 die of damage. Considering the US military does not have magic of any kind basically any direct hit weapons are going to be parried. For any hope of hurting him we would need to cause consistent environmental damage which is unblockable. That way we can actually cause them to use motes to defend. Now consider a Solar with a Gem of Incomparable Wellness in Elsewhere, and some charms that make it impossible to cage them. Even if you nuke them solar they will be back in an hour. There is literally nothing to be done. Solar can easily solve distant enemies given that they learn its a problem after a death or 2. They will develop charms to handle every the army throws at them given time they absolutely have given true immortality. They can't lose.
>>98185833Yeah but see my take on it above with my ExWoD party. That kind of wunderkind Exalt isn't your typical Exalt. In my view there's definitely Exalts who can walk into America like Vegeta and Nappa and just own the place, but most of the Chosen are going to be pulling a gimmick and fucking with the country while actively avoiding getting locked down by the bombing runs and other nastiness. I think most Solars could fubar America, but only a few could do it by drawing a line in the sand and telling Uncle Sam come and fucking get me. The rest are defeating America in the way this jerk did.
>>98185833Even 8 dice sounds kind of high to me for an average soldier. I think we'd be looking at Attributes at 2, relevant Abilities at 2, maybe a couple of specialties, with Attributes and Abilities higher than that signifying above-average fitness and skill.
>>98185833>I mean. Average US Soldier is gonna be rolling like 8 dice to hit?5-11 depending on range, but it's not like the average US soldier matters here.>Skin of Bronze, StaminaAutistic chargen Melee Solar. No skin of bronze, and Stamina is probably not maxed. Besides, it's unlikely to matter.>Considering the US military does not have magic of any kind basically any direct hit weapons are going to be parried. For any hope of hurting him we would need to cause consistent environmental damage which is unblockable. That way we can actually cause them to use motes to defend.This is a really limited way of looking at the world. I am at no point going to be worried about a Solar vs infantrymen. US infantry is never going to engage in any meaningful fashion in the first place. The only real concerns are naval/sky-naval combat, drones, and bombardment.>Gem of Incomparable Wellness in ElsewhereThis goes one of two ways. Either the Solar spawns in at the same time as a very conspicuous manse, which gets bombed into the shitter and the hearthstone turns off, or the Solar doesn't spawn in with a manse and the hearthstone doesn't work because it has the Linked keyword.Also, cremating the Solar on fire still keeps them dead for as long as the fire lasts, as does continuously riddling them with stab wounds or bullets. Drowning, starving, or dehydrating them keeps them unconscious indefinitely, and throwing them in a vat of acid keeps them both drowned and dead indefinitely. Saying there is no counter is getting a bit ahead of yourself.>some charms that make it impossible to cage themYou say that as if it's easy or within their charm budget or skillset given, again, we're talking about a combat autist and not a remotely well-rounded character.>They will develop charmsNo Solar who is engaging the US military in combat is going to be training charms. Even in 3e, training charms takes time. Experience in battle alone is explicitly not enough.
>>98185833Ok so soldiers and cavalry vehicles are a non-issue. What kind of Feat of destruction would you need to take down an aircraft carrier?
>>98186001I'm honestly more concerned about tanks. 3e doesn't have a way to convert from damage-to-a-person to damage-to-objects like 2e does, leaving Feats of Strength your only method of major environmental destruction for things like large wagons or buildings, a category most armored vehicles would fall into. Yes, they could finesse some of it by attacking through viewports and the like, but most (all?) modern APCs and proper tanks can be fully sealed IIRC.I just don't know if a chargen Solar who's all in on Melee is going to be pulling Strength 7 Difficulty 12+ feats of strength, y'know?
It annoys me that 2e is seen as the tactless edition with too much grimdark when 1e was so much worse about this sort of shit, 2e just was more open about its edge.The thing with 2e Infernals gets shit, but nobody remembers that the way 1e Abyssals wanted you fighting potential virgin re-births of the Neverborn was with hiring barbarians to commit mass rape. Ignoring how that's a self-fullfilling prophesy and not gonna actually work to stop such an event, I think that is the very heart of Exalted. Exalted is about how the world needs to be raped to be saved.I personally consider both editions grimdark tripe, but it was always tripe. People who say otherwise are the sorts that just delete information they don't like.
>>98186344The thing with any edition of Exalted is that there are high highs and low lows. 1E probably had both the highest highs and lowest lows, while 3E is so keen to avoid the worst of those lows that it tends to miss its chances to hit the highs, either. Anyways, people tend to remember the good shit they actually used in their games and forget the bad shit they ignored or headcanoned away, and that's easier to do with an older edition that people mostly haven't played for a while, or ever. I can understand while lionizing 1E is annoying, but it's really just because people remember GoD and Scavenger Sons and Case and Aspect Books better than Abyssals.
>>98186375>1E probably had both the highest highs and lowest lowsId say it simply has the best artwork. In terms of content, it still largely blows.The Aspect/Caste books are fun, but only lore snippet wise. Mechanics are still dishwater.Scavenger sons is too low powerlevel to meaningfully pull in PCs for long, and GoD is the supplement where the devs began their "You die with no save " crusade.>>98186375>headcanoned awayId say the Exalted community does this far more to excuse all its bullshit. I respect the people that say "Yeah its a miseryporn game and thats my jam" way more then those that say "No its totally empowerment fantasy".>>98186375>3E is so keen to avoid the worst of those lowsSorta. Its a matter of half-measures. They want to purge the lows, but are still pretentious elitist fucks, so don't do it in any way that's comprehensive or adjustable.So its like>And this is a faction of Cough (sex slavers) cough.>What was that?>Oh their cough (pedophiles) coughBut also large chunks of the Exalted fanbase are also pretentious fucks as well, so I get the fear.
>>98186344>1e Abyssals wanted you fighting potential virgin re-births of the Neverborn was with hiring barbarians to commit mass rape.1e Abyssals is more edgy and bad boy, but 2e Abyssals are much more grim and dark and just bad. 1e Abyssals can get away with a lot. 1e Deathlords are explicitly expected to negotiate before going to extreme measures like tossing Monstrances, whereas negotiating with their servants is not something 2e Deathlords are ever said to do. 1e Resonance is forgiving, where the only thing maxing it out does is lower your vibes, and the ability to willingly bleed it is a useful tool in your arsenal rather than a punishment device - and the edgy but useful effects it can do scale higher than the 2e punishments do, too. In 2e it breaks the moment you hit 10 and uncontrollable always negative effects come out and punch you in the dick. 1e Abyssals also have charms that are honestly edgy in and of themselves, while in 2e they're direct rips from Solars but made dark and bad and usually less effective.On the lore side, doing greater and more evil deeds doesn't make 1e Abyssals worse or tactlessly grimdark, it makes them better and more grand. These big atrocities highlight the Abyssals and makes their place in the setting more intense and, to many an Abyssal player, more cool. It's not more grimdark to do bigger and badder feats when the PoV characters suck less, it's just more edgy.
>>98186464>2e Abyssals are much more grim and dark and just bad. I didn't say 2e was any better.>1e Abyssals can get away with a lot.Because it does, all of Exalteds core issues never get fixed.>it makes them better and more grand. I think this is what makes Exalted never grow as a setting in 20 years. If the scale of your rape, is how Exalted measures its "Grandness" and "Glory" then of course its gonna spin in circles.
>>98186490>I think this is what makes Exalted never grow as a setting in 20 years. If the scale of your rape, is how Exalted measures its "Grandness" and "Glory" then of course its gonna spin in circles.I disagree that Exalted has never grown (especially in 20 years jesus) and I disagree with the idea that atrocities being used to measure scale is ineffective. Star Wars without the Death Star is a cold war spy fantasy. Voldemort running a campaign of terror that had people scared to even say his name changed the tone and added heft to the Harry Potter series. Werewolf the Apocalypse - yes, point and laugh at the ugly furbaby - would see so much less play and the Werewolves would get a lot less sympathy if Pentex and the Wyrm weren't so ludicrously evil. Villains and villainous deeds to matter.
>>98185961>Not training charms.3e core explicitly states charms can be gained without training under duress. Any time a chosen is in a situation where a charm would solve their problem it can manifest."Finally, a word on advancing mystical traits. While it is possible to give instruction in Charms, most Chosen, and certainly most Solars, develop their own Charms through instinctive cultivation of skill rather than through rigorous practice. As such, while Charms can certainly be trained like any other skill, many characters ‘train’ their Charms by exercising the Ability in question under duress.">Not take skin of bronze.Why? If he is willing to invest points into artifacts why not sorcery. Unless the thought experiment is 15 melee charms not just a combat junky but that's stupid.>ManseThe manse is in Creation...? Linked hearthstones work in the underworld, malfeas, the wyld, and separate non creation shaped worlds. Why wouldn't it work on earth.>Drowning, acid, infinite fire.Your body reforms and you parry the thing that is keeping you unconscious. It doesn't matter what it is because that is how the solar charms are written.
>>98186526>I disagree with the idea that atrocities being used to measure scale is ineffective.It really isn't. Alderan could have been a space station, or a city and the effect would largely be the same.Audiences care about characters and individuals more then abstract numbers. Million is a statistic and all that.WoD by and large is a dying tumor of a game with its remnant playerbase largely being self-absorbed larpers largely because it was a series that measured its sense of maturity with how often you get fucked with no save, and how many people drop the soap.I mean there are people like me that will notice the scale and be horrified, the sorts of people incapable of mothballing details we dislike. But Exalted is not made for those people at all.>Villains and villainous deeds to matter.Which is largely conflation. Exalted does this allot. Villianous deeds do matter, which is why its critical players must rape the world to save it. Yes its mature. Its very adult and smart, and only adult smart people get that.>Werewolf the ApocalypseMaybe it would have seen more play if it didn't posit its setting as a choice of what sort of pole you like taking up the backside.Again its amusing how that's posited as the mandate. The settings extremely unlikable overpowered antagonists need to exist so that the also very unlikable protagonists have a justification.World Of Darkness!
>>98186344>1e Abyssals wanted you fighting potential virgin re-births of the Neverborn was with hiring barbarians to commit mass rapeCould you post it?>1eIn it the average lunar was a serial rapist, with the players being noted as a possible exception.
>>98186616>Could you post it?Yes. Page 281.You can just smell the maturity and depth.
>>98186663Missed the first bit, sorry
>>98186663Oh, thanks, but I meant the full text with the rebirth.It smells like "juvenile contrarian hatred" against Tanith Lee's work, I wanted to confirm.
>>98186573>3e core explicitly states charms can be gained without training under duress. Any time a chosen is in a situation where a charm would solve their problem it can manifest.I see where you got your quote, but if you look at the previous paragraph you will find it says the opposite, actually."while time in battle provides insight, training is when those insights are contemplated, practiced, and perfected; neither training nor experience alone is sufficient for mastery."I will also point out that the initial prompt is for a chargen Solar. As soon as he trains anything, including charms, he isn't a chargen Solar and stops being relevant to the prompt. For so long as he fights the USA here, he is to be a chargen Solar. Yes, this means Workings are also off the table in case that mattered.>Unless the thought experiment is 15 melee charms not just a combat junky but that's stupid.Because it was already pointed out that a Melee Supernal character could win trivially by just not doing Melee. If the character isn't doing Melee then yes, he can win trivially - congrats, not what's being talked about. Also, he has a limited number of charm slots because he's a chargen Solar.>manseThe wording of the prompt is that the Solar is dumped in the middle of the USA with artifacts and other merits. The merits are in the USA. If he has Influence in Nexus, Nexus is dumped in the USA.>Your body reforms and you parry the thing that is keeping you unconscious. It doesn't matter what it is because that is how the solar charms are written.Not how that works. Healing doesn't happen all at once - time doesn't tick over and then go pop as a wound vanishes, it heals over time. Dealing damage sets back healing.
>>98186687>It smells like "juvenile contrarian hatred" against Tanith Lee's work, I wanted to confirm.It's not. Just generic plot stuff, with the maturity juice WW adds to its products.>Tanith Lee's workBut that was a series that had rape happen. Its not to my taste, but it did shit with what White Wolf Lacked: A point. A theme, a takeaway.White Wolf thrust a dog turd in your face, and if you looked away, smugly told themselves where more mature because they handled the reality of the world.
>>98186344It is because 2e used comics, so the edge was more on your face, contrary of 1e that used the more skippable chapter fiction.
>>98186737>White Wolf Lacked: A point. A theme, a takeaway.Wasn't the point of most WW games something along the lines of "the world is shit, but you shouldn't be" only to undermine it at every other turn.
>>98186737Azhram died fighting Hate, after an age of peace, he was reborn from 7 virgins giving birth to him.Azhram's daughter was also from a virgin birth. and attack by an angry mob for it White Wolf tried to one up her with the rape.>with the maturity juice WW adds to its products.It is similar to a family guy parody.
>Sidereals weakest in direct confrontation.Le-fucking LOL.>>98186798>It is similar to a family guy parody.Yes. Or as it was said before: Rick And Morty. For its faults, family guy thought it was smart for only a very short period of time.>>98186795>Wasn't the point of most WW games something along the lines of "the world is shit, but you shouldn't be"No the real point of WW games is >"We deserve to get paid for very little work, and idolized for our sloth and pride. And the world is cruel and unjust because it doesn't agree."WW doesn't believe in anything, outside of looking cool and smart. Taking a stand or a position makes you vulnerable. So they just mock every position and talk themselves up.
>>98186717>previous paragraphThe one that explicitly says it's talking about abilities and attributes? Followed by a new paragraph saying it's talking about charms? It's almost like they clearly delineate what each one is referring too.>middle of the USA with artifacts and other meritsOk. He got his gem of incomparable wellness straight up within a manse and took backing to represent where it came from and who is maintaining the manse. As the backing is simply the benefit of an organization and not the organization itself they continue to maintain the manse and do not follow him to create >Dealing damage sets back healing.I have no further to add to this. I concede. Outside of there are probably resistance charms that solve it but melee only. I still disagree with no gaining xp. A chargen character gains XP after they are made and this character would be finished being made and on their adventure.
>>98186850>Le-fucking LOL.Something something only through Siderial Martial Arts do they get good, ignore all the other bullshit they can do before then fight or whatever.
>>98186875>Something somethingNow your getting it!Let me help out.>Something something, bureaucracy>Something something, custom Charms>Something something, just ST fiat it bro>Something something, the players are the protagonists so they are guaranteed to winRebecca Bergstrom is evidence that if your obscurantist enough, people will think your fanfiction is deep.
>>98186446>Scavenger sons is too low powerlevel to meaningfully pull in PCs for long,Yes, it is noticeable that the PCs were meant to be a heroic mortal Conan with some divine stuff, instead of Hercules/Superman.>fanbase.It depends if they see the grift or not.>>98186526>Werewolf the Apocalypse - yes, point and laugh at the ugly furbaby - would see so much less play and the Werewolves would get a lot less sympathy if Pentex and the Wyrm weren't so ludicrously evil. Villains and villainous deeds to matter.Because the Garou are so retarded, that only by fighting against "edgy Saturday morning cartoon villains", the can come as "sympathetic".Remove it and you get 1e!Lunars or the pure.
>>98186923>Yes, it is noticeable that the PCs were meant to be a heroic mortal Conan with some divine stuff, instead of Hercules/Superman.Something something "its barren and absent valuable things to interact with so you look more impressive by comparison".>>98186923>It depends if they see the grift or not.I think the ones that did left a long time ago.
>>98186798Neither Tanith Lee nor White Wolf invented the concept of virgin birth, sometimes similarities are just similarities, and Exalted having any degree of "juvenile contrarian hatred against Tanith Lee's works" is extremely unlikely.>>98186850A lot of White Wolf games, maybe even most, do take some pretty clear positions. I say "maybe most" because I'm not familiar with all WW games so I'm not going to claim that for sure.
>>98186923>Remove it and you get 1e!Lunars or the pure.At least the garou get a more diverse powerset and more interesting subfactions.
>>98186344I honestly love the grimdark edgy side of exalted.It's super cool and very in theme for a post-post-post apocalyptic setting.And gives plenty of room to save the world for those who want to play the good guy.
>>98186864>The one that explicitly says it's talking about abilities and attributes?It doesn't. I don't know why you'd claim it does when I copied from it and therefore clearly have it open in front of me. The next paragraph says 'a word on advancing mystical traits', which means that it is clarifying and not revising previous mechanics.>Ok. He got his gem of incomparable wellness straight up within a manse and took backing to represent where it came from and who is maintaining the manse. As the backing is simply the benefit of an organization and not the organization itself they continue to maintain the manse and do not follow him to createHis Backing is dumped in the USA. I don't understand how 'the merits are dumped in the USA' could be difficult to understand.
>>98186956>I honestly love the grimdark edgy side of exalted.Thats fine, and I respect that.>>98186956>And gives plenty of room to save the world for those who want to play the good guy.And this is where I always disagree, and a position I do not respect. This is a bullshit position Exalted fans sell to..I dunno, cover up their embarrassment over liking something grimdark?
>>98186949>Something something "its barren and absent valuable things to interact with so you look more impressive by comparison".It is more like hunter the reckoning, you are a mostly human supernatural, a human+ in other words, with some unreliable tricks here and there (a.k.a. charms)The way the mote economy works, allowed charms to become the main way a character interacts with the setting, and anima wasn't as strong masquerade enforcement mechanic to stop the shift in the meta.
>>98186985>And this is where I always disagree, and a position I do not respect. This is a bullshit position Exalted fans sell to..I dunno, cover up their embarrassment over liking something grimdark?This isn't a situation where a little bad has to spoil all the good out there. It's like how the Jedi are overwhelmingly the good guys even if there are a few dark jedi and sith. Just because there's a bunch of dark stuff in Exalted doesn't mean the heroes can't do anything about it. More often than not the dark stuff in Exalted is allowed to happen only because nobody who knows cares to fight it.
>>98183036>takes Mentor 3>its a Deathlord>does it as many times as bp allow>they're all dumped into the US>enjoy
>>98186985>And this is where I always disagree, and a position I do not respect. This is a bullshit position Exalted fans sell to..I dunno, cover up their embarrassment over liking something grimdark?It's a legitimate and genuinely held position, though. You're free to disagree, but you're also wrong if you do disagree with it, as it's more of a fairly simple fact than a matter of opinion.
>>98187010>It's like how the Jedi are overwhelmingly the good guys even if there are a few dark jedi and sith.except it's the exact opposite of that in Exalted
>>98187010>This isn't a situation where a little bad has to spoil all the good out there.If your one of those people that genuinely thinks Creation is a good place to live (or ever was, or even could be), then I just agree to disagree.>It's like how the JediWhy did you have to bring up Star Wars to excuse Exalted?Anyway, enjoy Exalted.>>98187005>wasn't as strong masquerade enforcement mechanic to stop the shift in the meta.I don't think WW really cares about Metas. It just does whatever and doesn't care. The shift was probably a cynical and desperate marketing ploy.
>>98186985>I dunno, cover up their embarrassment over liking something grimdark?It's basic acknowledgment of the nature of tabletop gaming.Even if the setting as written is grimdark and destined to eventually be undone your table has the last day on what actually happens there like in shadow of the demon lord you could find a way to keep the demon lord out and save the setting it all depends on what you would find most fun.
>>98187033>It's a legitimate and genuinely held position, though.I know. I just know not to debate it. Enjoy Exalted.
>>98187028How you getting a deathlord into the military?
>>98187054>your table has the last day on what actually happensRight, but I can play a game that's actually setup to make that happen without gigantic asspulls (or scat fetishes) and ignoring 95% of the setting, mechanics, and lore.You can say "Our table just did our own thing", without insisting that your tablecannon is what's actually written down and sold. Does it not being official material just put a damper on it in peoples minds, so they have to insist thats the actual cannon content Isn't that sorta insecure?
>>98187062>Enjoy Exalted.You too! Or if you don't, which is fine, spend your time on games you do enjoy.
>>98187100NTA, but the actual nature of Exalted is that Exalts do, in fact, have all the tools necessaty to deal with the problems of Creation. PCs have the advantage that they're played by real life people who look at the setting from the outside and have a perspective even the smartest people in the setting can't have, and PCs making a positive difference requires absolutely no degree of asspulls or ignoring any part of the setting.
>>98186795It is more of, there's a point, but it loops around so much that it becomes a tangled mess.Masquerade is a microcosm of WW as a whole.Take a basic premise.>playing a vampire.Expand it.>The hidden manipulators of the world.Subvert it.>You are the bottom of the above.Subvert it again.>You are an anarch fighting against the man/elders.Subvert it again.>Turns out we like to self-insert as the elders, with the players being literal living props in our larps sessions.Add some, suckness mechanics, and ways to turn supernatural powers unreliable (blood points, hunger dice)>>98187053>I don't think WW really cares about Metas. It just does whatever and doesn't care. The shift was probably a cynical and desperate marketing ploy.Sidereals were designed to break the meta at time, and to this day, the devs/fans still don't fully grasp the "stunt to win" shift.
>>98187100I accept the setting as it is the only people I have seen wanting it changed are the guys complaining about it being too dark and not having a path to salvation.Which is retarded because you can save it at your table but somehow that's never enough they have to push for the setting to be made blander and boring.
>>98187103>You too! Or if you don't, which is fine, spend your time on games you do enjoy.Pfff, I wish I could. Game group and all.>>98187120>NTA, but the actual nature of Exalted is that Exalts do, in fact, have all the tools necessaty to deal with the problems of Creation.Going off implied mechanics, jank ST fiat like craft system/wyld shaping/Sorcery, or what? Or genuinely and sincerely?>PCs have the advantage that they're played by real life peopleI mean by that logic the PCs have the absolute advantage because they can get the ST to do what they want. What sort of argument is that? That a protagonist in a book can achieve anything because I can cut out the pages they fail and write fanfiction where they win?>no degree of asspulls or ignoring any part of the setting.Genuinely and for real this is your honest to god opinion?
>>98187053>If your one of those people that genuinely thinks Creation is a good place to live (or ever was, or even could be), then I just agree to disagree.I think it could be, but isn't and never was unless you were one of the very priviledged few. I think it's better and worse than a lot of our own history in ways that make it hard to judge which is best overall depending on when and where you are.>Why did you have to bring up Star Wars to excuse Exalted?Simile is a useful tool for describing things, even if the thing you're comparing in the metaphor (simile is a kind of metaphor) is not the same topic. In a discussion on the merits of apples vs oranges, I could compare the difference to being like night and day, and it would still be relevant. Why Star Wars in particular? Mostly because it has clearly delineated good guys and bad guys at odds and intermixing, so it's an easy comparison in any situation where there are good guys and bad guys at odds and intermixing.>>98187043>except it's the exact opposite of that in ExaltedMeh. That's fine. Even if the Sith and Dark Jedi completely outnumber the Jedi (as in the original trilogy) being a hero and undoing even some their evils would still be a worthwhile endeavor, much like how being a hero and fighting back against the evils of the world is still worthwhile in Exalted even in the face of overwhelming opposition.
>>98187131>Sidereals were designed to break the meta at timeThey were designed to break the meta in 3e too. Kind of funny how that wraps around.
>>98187166>Even if the Sith and Dark Jedi completely outnumber the Jedi (as in the original trilogy)there were just two of themvs in exalted where there's hundreds of them, and those are just the ones who mog the PCs from start and forever
>>98187163>I mean by that logic the PCs have the absolute advantage because they can get the ST to do what they want. What sort of argument is that? That a protagonist in a book can achieve anything because I can cut out the pages they fail and write fanfiction where they win? Anon is dumbfounded by the nature of fiction...
>>98187188>there were just two of themAre you just ignoring the Empire and hoping nobody notices? Yes, there were just two Sith, yes, but also they completely outnumbered the three Jedi.
>>98187141>people I have seen wanting it changed are the guys complaining about it...Well yeah? Thats what people complaining actually want.>Which is retarded because you can save it at your tableAnd you can en-shittify it at yours if your missing grimdark. But im not gonna sell you silver age batman as a grimdark fantasy because you can grimify it in your head.Just say the setting is grimdark and your fucked. Accept it. If you sold it that way to people, there wouldn't be people coming to the game, finding that its blatantly untrue that its written with empowerment in mind and yeah, complaining and wanting it changed on the false premise you sold it under.
>>98187196Exalted is basically a cyoa railroaded towards doom.>"If you don't like it, you can change it, but you will be missing it out".G—T. Grabowski
>>98187163Exalts have, just by their actual Charms, no jank needed, means to improve and protect Creation. The point about PCs being played by real people has nothing to do with convining ST to do something, or anything of the sort. I did, in fact, explicitly state what the significance of that is, so I'm going to assume I don't need to repeat it here since you can just go back to my previous post and keep reafing it until you understand it. If you disagree with my point after understanding it, that's,fair! Then we'll have something to discuss. And yes, it is my honest to god opinion that the setting can be improved without asspulls.
>>98187183I wonder how much power creep Getimians will cause.They already can retcon the Realm away in essence.
>>98187227"You can change it" is the opposite of being railroaded. A developer having his owm preferences and the utter temerity to tell people what they are isn't the developer twisting your arm.
>>98187227Even the creator is explicitly telling you that you can change it so...>>98187209There is a huge difference between a comic and a tabletop game...In that the comic is static how am I supposed to grimify it?Draw gore on the comic when batman hits people?Add swear words in the dialogue by hand?Meanwhile in tabletop literally everything depends on the ST and players they build everything with guidance from the books.
>>98187231except their opposition outnumbers them, has more of their charms and are better at using them
>>98187166>I think it's better and worse than a lot of our own history in waysThen I don't have much more ways to converse with you then. Enjoy Exalted.>>98187131>Sidereals were designed to break the meta at timeThat's what I meant. That that decision felt more like a desperate marketing plot because "Your OP and haxx" sold copies. "Its like D&D but your buttfucked" did not.>>98187231>Exalts have, just by their actual Charms, no jank needed, means to improve and protect Creation.I consider this point so absolutely basically wrong, its like saying humans can breathe sand to me. I don't think your approaching this from a disingenuous perspective, but I don't understand how to even attempt to breach this conversational gulf.I genuinely would like to understand how you hold this position, but Im not sure how its possible.
>>98187269>>Add swear words in the dialogue by hand?Yes. And since you can do that, ergo it is grimdark. Is anything stopping you? If I found a creator that said "Change it if you like" would that make what I said true?
>>98187278>That's what I meant. That that decision felt more like a desperate marketing plot because "Your OP and haxx" sold copies. "Its like D&D but your buttfucked" did not.Oh, I meant the earlier setting interaction meta, even in 1e, the "mortal brained" chumps took advantage of stunts to spam charms as hard as first age elders, anima be dammed.
>>98187276Eh, no. There is no united opposition, and more importantly most of the NPCs aren't actually evil fuckers but people doing what they think is best based on their own values, experiences and limited in-setting perspectives. Most Exalts aren't categorically impossible to convince to at least consider the possibility that there might be a better way than what they're currently doing, being the point. >>98187278You don't seem to have very many ways to converse with anyone, or much interest in doing so. You still seem weirdly insistent to pretend to have a discussion about Exalted, though. Why is that? >I genuinely would like to understand how you hold this position, but Im not sure how its possible.You could try reading the books with more actual thought and with less obviously predetermined views.All in all, anon, while there are a lot, a whole lot things people can and do reasonably disagree with when it comes to Exalted, yourt basic understanding of the setting seems to be just genuinely mistaken and misguided in some pretty fundamental ways. I feel like I can understand how you hold your position, in the sense that I can see the biases and misreadings of the material that could lead to that position, but your position itself is just so fundamentally wrong that I have to agree that this "conversational gulf" might be difficult to overcome. I also have to ask whether you're the same guy who last thread tried to argue that Dragon Kings in 1E were depicted as blameless saint-like race. If you are, I think I'll just give up on this discussion. If you're not, though, sorry for thinking you might be him.
>>98187331>There is no united oppositionare you out of your fucking mindthere are like at least 4 massive entrenched factions
>>98187338>there are like at least 4 massive entrenched factionsIt the word "united" not a part of your vocabulary?
>>98187292How are you meant to interact with tabletop games and with comics?Comics, you read them.Tabletop, you play them.One is much more inherently interactive and customizable than the other.You can't escape this simple truth.
>>98187331>There is no united opposition>most of the NPCs aren't actually evil fuckers>Most Exalts aren't categorically impossible to convince
>>98187344as in the United States of SMASH?
>>98187363I know, it's hilarious some people need that spelled out to them.
Now that I think about it, "charms are unreliable" explains the whole "exalted was meant to be like a card game".Charms are the trump cards used sparingly in a tactical way, instead of spammed like how it ended up.
>>98187379The only time I saw people talk about socializing with a canon elder npc, was about how impossible it was to convince them to work together for the better of Creation.
>>98187381>Charms are the trump cards used sparingly in a tactical way, instead of spammed like how it ended up.That was the intention, yes
>>98187331>You don't seem to have very many ways to converse with anyone, or much interest in doing so.Nah, I just realize its not worth my time to really go in-depth with these sorts of conversations with certain people. Once I identified you as one of those people, the best I can do is wish you well and end the conversation.Enjoy Exalted. I'm stuck with it.
>>98187390See knowing that makes the 2e combos make better sense. Still glad that was done away with though
>>98187381>charms are unreliableWhere is this from? And what was the design sense that made the devs think they where unreliable?
>>98187363>>There is no united opposition>Tfw the authoctonian crusaders share the same goal than the neverborn, the ream, sidereals and the bull of the north.Alas, I truly see...>>most of the NPCs aren't actually evil fuckers>Tfw the realm DBs don't actually care about maintaining the realm for personal or even good reasons but to accelerate the destruction of the world.Makes sense...>>Most Exalts aren't categorically impossible to convince>Tfw when there are no examples of exalted changing their minds or even changing sides no DB has ever betrayed the realm or Abyssal trying to redeem themselves.Of course...
>>98187388>The only time I saw people talk about socializing with a canon elder npc, was about how impossible it was to convince them to work togetherYou should've just stopped there. You didn't need to go further, and it disproved your assertion that the baddies are united on the spot.
>>98187363Yeah, those are all pretty obvious and straightforward things that shouldn't have to be explicitly explained to anyone. >>98187400>Enjoy Exalted. I'm stuck with it.Good news, though: you're not stuck with Exalted General. If your group insists on playing Exalted even though you don't want to, you can just tough it out during sessions and spend literally all of your free time outside of those sessions doing something you actually like.
>>98187418I am not the united anon, just pointing out that the fans will dogpile you if you suggest "let's talk with Chejop".
>>98187421>Good news, though: you're not stuck with Exalted GeneralI have to run the fucking thing. I get no reprieve. I vent my frustrations at it through here because fuckwits gaslit me into thinking it was a game of heroic empowerment.
>>98187400I would like to point out that your obvious bias against the world of Exalted makes your opinion on the game worth less.>>98187438>I have to run the fucking thing. I get no reprieve.You could just not.>I vent my frustrations at it through here because fuckwits gaslit me into thinking it was a game of heroic empowerment.You could play it as a game of heroic empowerment. You could also not. You obviously have chosen not to. Just because you have chosen not to does not mean you could not.
>>98187417>4 separate factions assraping the solars (and the rest of the world) nonstop? ermmm doesn't count because they're not all friends :)>the realm is filled to the brim with evil motherfuckers who have been causing nonstop misery worldwide for almost a thousand years? erm, doesn't count because they were just being a lil selfish :)>no one has ever managed to convince the most powerful entities in the setting to stop being evil motherfuckers but ermm well a few of their slaves got convinced, see!
>>98187438>I have to run the fucking thing.Oh, now that's bullshit in at least two ways. First, it boggles the mind to consider that someone might be spineless enough to be pressured to run a game he doesn't even like. Just tell your players that you're not having fun and run something else. Secondly, complaining on 4chan about how much you dislike Exalted is going to do absolutely nothing to help you run the game. I guess it might help if you were even a bit amenable to listening when people explain to you how you've misunderstood things, but you're obviously not.>I vent my frustrations at it through here because fuckwits gaslit me into thinking it was a game of heroic empowerment.Vent to ChatpGPT or your own image in the mirror if that's all you want to do. But really, though, grow a pair and run something you want to run instead of Exalted.
>>98187447Yes, anon, you're right that there are baddies! That's not the point of what we were talking about. We were saying that the opposition is not united because a disunited opposition can be beaten down piecemeal. You can make a difference.
>>98187447I think autistic or on the spectrum is more likely.Unironic Exalted fans tend to...segment information, in a way I find common with autists. They are so focused on the purple prose blowing smoke up their ass they ignore the "And then you get raped and killed" bit. Using cognitive dissonance they ignore everything they dislike. Reminding them of it gets them upset or insistent that that doesn't matter because you can ignore it.
>>98187447>>the realm is filled to the brim with evil motherfuckers who have been causing nonstop misery worldwide for almost a thousand years? erm, doesn't count because they were just being a lil selfish :)Have you ever read Aspect Books, anon? A lot of Dynasts genuinely buy the whole bit about the Realm as Creation's protector and heart of civilization and a stabilizing force. A lot of Dynasts are also losing that faith no that things are crumbling. Convincing someone like Tepet Arada that maybe this whole empire business isn't actually a good thing would be perfectly plausible, and he would, in fact, care about whether or not it is a good thing.
>>98187413Reading 1e, and general WW trends.>And what was the design sense that made the devs think they where unreliable?Anima banner flares; they show your weakness for miles around, destroy the surroundings if dragon blooded, ruin disguises, mark you as an anathema and can ruin social attempts.Mote economy, this one was neutered by farming motes through stunts.And in the case of Alchemicals, commitment and slots.
>>98187484There is certainly a lot of ignoring everything that doesn't support a certain position going on ITT, but much of it is on the side of the anon(s) who obviously dislikes Exalted.
>>98187513>Mote economy, this one was neutered by farming motes through stunts.I mean even without that, what the fuck they think would happen with a power system that regenerates within hours?I have never had issues with running out of motes in an Exalted game outside of combat.
>>98187484>segment information, in a way I find common with autists.Exalted is segmented in general, the setting changes depending on the book.I am not talking about lore expansions, but the weirdnesses of lunars vs the Realm, which depending on the book, changes from "the Realm treats lunars as training dummies" to "Lunars are the biggest threat"
>>98187540>Exalted is segmented in general, the setting changes depending on the book.What I mean is that its common autists don't acknowledge this.>>98187540>"the Realm treats lunars as training dummies" to "Lunars are the biggest threat"Subjective framing means not having to work to make anything consistent. Its such a great writing copout. 40K gets allot of mileage out of it.
>>98187566In this case, it is contradictory objective framing.
>>98187587Oh sure. There is also allot of weirdness in framing the Realm as the biggest threat, while the forces of the Deathlords outnumber then 10/1 if not moreso.I had shown how the Sidereals where weak until the devs changed their mind later and said "My daily quota of elder felatio isn't being met".
>>98187566>>Exalted is segmented in general, the setting changes depending on the book.>What I mean is that its common autists don't acknowledge this.You are seeing things completely backwards. Autistics would care about differences between the segments; normal people can simply deal with it and accept it.
>>98187599>I had shown how the Sidereals where weak until the devs changed their mind later and said "My daily quota of elder felatio isn't being met".Yes, Sidereals were weak until they were written and it turned out that smiting 3CD attempting Yozi Jailbreak on a timescale of days was considered a routine mission. Twists of Fate was basically a random encounter chart and it was wild, even if we disregard the rest of their charmset. I would have believed it if you told me that Twists of Fate were made to give you a day in the life of an Elder Sidereal, but no it turns out elder Sidereals all go into management and there are only like thirty Sidereals running field missions. Crazy.
>>98187635Cool story bro. Enjoy Exalted. You need a juicebox?>>98187640>Yes, Sidereals were weak until they were written and it turned out that smiting 3CD attempting Yozi Jailbreak on a timescale of days was considered a routine mission.Yup. Bergstrom is la-fraud. Notice how none of the Sidereals sent after the Bull had this....Mostly because the Sids book came later. =P
>>98187526Higher risk of running out of motes in fights, the hours of rest would allow you to put your cards back in your "deck", but during life of death, you would only have a limited amount of motes.
>>98187447>>4 separate factions assraping the solars (and the rest of the world) nonstop? ermmm doesn't count because they're not all friends :)Nice moving of the goalpost lmaoThey are bad but they are not by a mile unified opposition.>>the realm is filled to the brim with evil motherfuckers who have been causing nonstop misery worldwide for almost a thousand years? erm, doesn't count because they were just being a lil selfish :)Do you consider, say, all Americans evil?Or all Chinese?Or any other empire?All empires have heroic narratives for themselves, and many members of such empires buy into it. Hell, it is necessary they do so.>>no one has ever managed to convince the most powerful entities in the setting to stop being evil motherfuckers but ermm well a few of their slaves got convinced, see!There are plenty of examples of elders changing over time, mostly for the worse, but this means they can change to support your cause.But you seal yourself in a retarded cage like pick related.
>>98187670>Higher risk of running out of motes in fightsMan that's such retarded game design. Its basically the thread design of a D&D dungeon crawl. I have heard that some developers of WW played D&D in front of a dev from Wizards, but I figure that must have a trick akin to the society union showing visitors fully stocked stores.>See we totally play things other than WW games!
>>98187661Says anon throwing a tantrum
>>98187640>Yes, Sidereals were weak until they were written and it turned out that smiting 3CD attempting Yozi Jailbreak on a timescale of days was considered a routine missionMy theory is that Sidereals are the original Celestial exalted, the hidden masters of the setting, the seemingly weakness was just them putting a cover for the fact.
>>98187678>They are bad but they are not by a mile unified opposition.They are 4 unified oppositions you autistic retard.>Do you consider, say, all Americans evil?>Or all Chinese?>Or any other empire?>All empires have heroic narratives for themselves, and many members of such empires buy into it. Hell, it is necessary they do so.What the fuck are you mumbling about, sped? You are actually mentally impaired. Not even as a joke.
>>98187701>They are 4 unified oppositions you autistic retard.Even taken as individual factions, they fucking fight each other within the faction all the time.The biggest example is the realm about to rape itself in a civil war.>What the fuck are you mumbling about, spedThe irony of someone incapable of following a logical chain saying this...The realm is an evil empire, right?Now compare it to evil empires irl.That's all.
>>98187701>You are actually mentally impaired. Not even as a joke.He means that technically they are 4 disparate oppositions instead of 1 big one.And since each of Exalteds horrible empires sometimes thinks of themselves heroic (while they rape and pillage), that makes it OK.But he does seem to have somesort of cognitive issue where he thinks that by virtue of being able to adjust a plot in his head, the plot written down doesn't matter.
>>98187740>Even taken as individual factions, they fucking fight each other within the faction all the time.And it does nothing whatsoever to stop them from assraping Creation and Solars at their leisure.>The biggest example is the realm about to rape itself in a civil war.>Ohh the realm is about to fall apart guys any day now it's about to do it now it's gonna happen any minute now come on guys get ready for it it's about to happen right now maybe even in two weeks from now the realm is on the cusp of falling apart!And even IF it does fall apart on its own, it doesn't mean you did anything or could have ever done anything to cause that yourself. This is that stupid fucking Lunar logic again. These powers are so fucking far beyond any of your capabilities as a PC that the only chance you have is if they destroy themselves on their own.
>>98187757>These powers are so fucking far beyond any of your capabilities as a PC that the only chance you have is if they destroy themselves on their own.>Bro, but at your table bro.>ST fiat bro>Custom Charms Bro>Wyld Shaping bro
>>98187757>And it does nothing whatsoever to stop them from assraping Creation and Solars at their leisure.Except when they don't like with the Bull of the north.>And even IF it does fall apart on its own, it doesn't mean you did anything or could have ever done anything to cause that yourself. This is that stupid fucking Lunar logic again. These powers are so fucking far beyond any of your capabilities as a PC that the only chance you have is if they destroy themselves on their own.Anon...Again, the bull is supposed to be the example of what a circle of Solar PCs could accomplish; they fought the realm and won. This should be impossible according to your logic.The realm is not already in a civil war to keep the door open to use it as it is, like how all the bad guys are still here to let you be the one to defeat them.>>98187767We have a literal example in universe.But you guys love acting retarded.
Bull is the first (and weakest) doom written up. He was written before Sidereals and Deathlords where fleshed out. He (and his entire circle) should absolutely be dead.But he does spam 2CD until the Realm gives up. So I suppose by exploiting the shitty mechanics you got a chance.
>>98187566>What I mean is that its common autists don't acknowledge this.When and where have you seen that commonly happen, exactly? In my experience pretty much the opposite, acknowledging the inconsistencies of Exalted and claiming everything that disagrees with one's position as examples of such inconsistencies while everything that agrees with one's position is obviously the true core vision of the game, is far more common. >>98187701>They are 4 unified oppositions you autistic retard.Lol. I guess my country's political field is united then since there are nine parties, each of them united, in the parliament. Some of those parties might not be that united, but they do have internal factions that are united, so I guess they are united after all.
>>98187701>They are 4 unified oppositions you autistic retard.There is only one unified faction in opposition that can realistically ruin or improve the world at their leisure, demolishing the Solar Exalted and Realm at-will and if not destroying the Lunar Exalted wherever they spawn then at least pushing them beyond the world, and it isn't the Sidereals or the Deathlords or the Abyssals or the Yozi or the Fae, it's the Maidens of Fate and their automata-puppets, the pattern spiders. Only they are united and hold non-fractious ultimate power over the world, and the only reason they don't wield it for fucking anything useful is because samsara I guess.You could say the Incarnae in general but they disagree sometimes (mostly on how much to use the xbox) but the Maidens specifically are not fractious and have control over the pattern spiders, which are a divine army millions if not billions strong and capable of taking down all Creation with just that lone if they wanted to, to say nothing of their personal powers and whoever from Heaven they can call in.
>>98187967>There is only one unified faction in oppositiononly if your definition of "unified" is "every last person holding hands together in eternal love and friendship"and since you're dumber than a fucking rock that's actually how you think
>>98187990What would you consider to be unified factions, exactly? The Realm's certainly not one, even by the loosest definition of unified. Deathlords, not really either, Silver Pact, no, Bronze and Gold Factions, sure, more or less.
>>98187813Wasn't Yurgen actually pretty tame before kingdoms of halta? Originally what buck broke tepet was a mortal merchant prince
>>98188056>Wasn't Yurgen actually pretty tame before kingdoms of halta? Originally what buck broke tepet was a mortal merchant princeI dunno, probably. You expect a white wolf writer to keep setting information about a location for longer then the 3 minutes it took them to write that paragraph?Anyway yeah I remember people complaining about metaplot bullshit with him as well.
>>98187813>But he does spam 2CD until the Realm gives up.That's how I solve most problems tbf
>>98188085>That's how I solve most problems tbfYup>Brilliant Warlord!Looks inside>Wizard Summons shit till opposition stops moving.>Warlord does jack shit.What retard decided that Wizards should still be the best even in a classless system where everybody plays gods.
>>98187813The bull is more of a possible seed for a Solar faction you can join than a doom
>>98188114
>>98188125Technically that's also true of the Guild
What would be some interesting inspiration for oceanic Beastmen besides the Shadow Over Innsmouth ?
>>98188114>What retard decided that Wizards should still be the best even in a classless system where everybody plays godsMark Rein, when he created the tremere.
>>98188128Do you have any fucking idea how many spells are just "create a problem for everyone else" story hooks?
>>98188125Hes a bit of both. He was created to show that Solars where like Alexander the great. Overpompous jackasses that would murder half the world to justify their own desire for domination. Grabowski talked about this for a bit.>>98188141Touche
>>98188141>CreatedHe took them from Ars magica and also the whole Order of Hermes.
>>98188155In caste book Dawn, he was more of a reverse king Kull.Had an existential crisis, and ended up ruling a nascent empire, out of fear of other solars not liking him, or wanting him in their new world order.
>>98188191>gain phenomenal cosmic powers>go to war with the Realm out of social anxietyGoddamn I'm liking him more and more
>>98188218Actually, he was only expanding the ice walkers influence over the north, and erasing shadow lands.Dace and Lyta were the ones who wanted to go to war against the Realm.
The thing I absolutely hate the most in Exalted, to my core, is the subversion of expectations it pulls.When you read Sol showing up to inspire Solars you know what, its pretty effective. Its an intriguing read and image. Its powerful.And then hes revealed to be a fraud in GoD, and just largely a piece of shit.I don't mind the POS take, or a sincere take, but I can't stand the Charlie Brown, set you up to insult you premise.Was the intent to make him more a clear POS in core, but there was little dev communication, or was the "Subversion of Expectations" planned from the beggining?Its what leaves the aftertaste of Exalted being a game that resents you for wanting to be there. All the caste books have the Solars just touched by Sols words, only for it to just rugpull and reveal that their all suckers. That you are expected to play a sucker.2e stupidly tried to walk it back without changing anything meaningful. Resulting in this insanely unbalanced tone.
>>98188233At least he does the decent thing if he's killed in RotSE, uses his last breath to turbo charge his Chosen and, if there's a Zenith in the PC's circle, bequeaths them the power to choose the next Sun God
>>98188233I saw an interesting video about why lazy subversion sucks and it postulates that it boils down to betraying promises made to the audience that's what burns people out while good subversions still fulfill the promise but in an unexpected way.In general I think exalted does fulfill the promise you are playing semi-divine people tasked by the sun to save the world even if that god is basically retired you don't need him it is in your grasp to build a better world.
>>98188257>RotSERotse is a great example, of how much absolutely contrived retarded bullshit has to happen in order to play Exalted like a "straight" heroic narrative.Man I can't believe I fucking abandoned Zietgiest for Exalted of all things. An AP where you fight the god of death at the end of time while at the same time becoming gods to fight the god of revolution for fucking Exalted.Because I wanted a setting that "Thought about the consequences of high level play". Ughhhh.
>>98188277>In general I think exalted does fulfill the promise you are playing semi-divine people tasked by the sun to save the world even if that god is basically retired you don't need him it is in your grasp to build a better world.From the bottom of my heart:Go fuck yourself. Go fuck yourself you illiterates, that ignore all the caustic deconstructive garbage the setting is filled with. Its morons like you that repeated over and over that there is anything of value in this rotten pile of refuse.
>>98188290If the unconquered sun was active and fixing the setting what room would there be for the exalted themselves?The point is that the gods are indolent in their bubble while the exalted are the ones that will decide how the world is.
>>98188305The Incarnae won their war, they earned the right to chill in the Divine Rumpus Room, playing the Celestial Xbox. You can't expect them to keep coming out of retirement every time the next gen fuck up
>>98188305They made Sidereal elders so that excuse is a load of horseshit. They did it to fuck with the audience.Because sincerity makes white wolf bleed out the eyes.Again, all bullshit excuses.
>>98188330>They made Sidereal elders so that excuse is a load of horseshit. Sidereals are also the smallest group of exalted and have a ton of work they have to do to then do their manipulations in their free time.
>>98188348Well, conky is a single dude.But the real reason is that it is a poorly thought out copy of Dunsany and Tanith Lee's works.
>>98178896Monday Update>EditingAlchemicals Companion: Avatars of Brass and ShadowOur stretch goal companion book from the Alchemicals crowdfunder was approved by all the people it needed to be approved by, and is off to editing!>Art DirectionInfernals – Catching up on the art buy for the rest of the book today…Essence PG – Checking in on artists as I’d like this to get done relatively soonEssence STG (BK) – It’s a goin!>PressAlchemicals – PDF out to Backers… errata ends Thursday…as it says above, errata for alchemicals is already closing tomorrow. if you have a backer copy, use their feedback form to suggest edits. if anyone could upload the backer pdf we would all appreciate it. link to the form is here https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScRNyklBtqRX86aK5Ghyw0IFqODLEM9KlRGMnfu9nPoXO2Jcw/viewformthe essence stg campaign's in the op. the campaign itself will end in a little over a week. draft samples can be found here>>98184336 >>98184582sales shitonyx path sale has some ok discounts till mondayhttps://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/browse?promo=1000009&src=opp2026rpgdb and lunar deluxe books are discounted i guess, though still expensivehttps://studio2publishing.com/collections/onx-onyx-path-publishing
>>98178896TQ: Usually I deal with it like this
Only now I noticed, the 2 stretch goals are for the Realm alone, the rest of the setting will have to share theirs.
>>98185374>World of Darkness Map4> implying there are at least 1-3 moreGimme. I wanna cosmogeography synopsis
The first words in the 1e Player's Guide are literally "gods and sorcerers are like junkies and faggots".
>>98188324The Incarnae didn't win shit, they just hired people to win the war for them and gave them the magical currency to make such an endeavor possible. UCS wants you to think doing so permanently lessened him but that whole setting sun thing was just him taking a break to bang one of the solars he thought was hot.UCS really is the most basic bitch of the incarnae and it's also probably why solars are just so much worse then infernals are in both lore and how cool their charms are. "I do jade crack because the world is hard" is not the most complex character trait especially in 2e where he's also supposed to be 'proud' and all the other gay shit they called him. Imagine a crack head driving a giant robot made up of the sun and that's what the 2e devs thought was cool. Fucker doesn't even have a t-shirt or shoes - imagine his gamer smell.
>>98189500>I do jade crack because the world is hard" is not the most complex character traitWell, unfortunate the devs seem to have taken the epic pooh as a gospel, instead of toilet paper.
>>98189550Imagine the smell.
>>98189500They basically elevated humanity from basically a slave race too BTW.Exaltation itself is the greatest reward given to humanity alongside the rightful mandate of heaven to rule creation.The Unconquered Sun doesn't have a right to rule the world, the exalted hold that honor.
>>98189821Go by me, the anon who read Moorcock some time ago would have a heart attack.Despite it only having 4 pages, to this day I didn't finish it, I just don't have the stomach for Moorcock's thunderous elitist righteousness.The part where he mastubatorily gloated over the thought of Tolkien and Chesterton watching Rhodesia become Zimbabwe was painful to read.
>>98189500Luna is the only one who explicitly did something to affect the war, as she did convince Gaia to stand aside. The only gripe I have with the idea is that Luna is also too much of a schizophrenic to read a goal into her actions.At least with the Maidens and their charm bans, you can paint a picture of them being ok with what their chosen have done but struggling to keep them under control as they develop SMAs.
>>98189866>The part where he mastubatorily gloated over the thought of Tolkien and Chesterton watching Rhodesia become Zimbabwe was painful to read.Leftist hack author with monumental USI complex salivates over White genocide? Gee whiz, what a shocker.
Where could one find ExWoD homebrew? The urls above link only to the "official" stuff right?I'm most interested in knowing if there are some homebrewed Ancient Sorceries around. Might as well look to see if someone already converted other spells before trying myself
>>98190001That's just exalted since 1e.>>98189912Luna is so much cooler then the UCS and it's not even a question. I'm a big Scarlet Empress fanboy but Luna actually does stuff. I've seen plenty of "Murder the Sun" stories but I've never seen someone who wants to kill the moon.I still say the ultimate end game is hooking up with a Yozi.
>>98190024Space battles has some, including a post apocalyptic scenario
>>98190001>Leftist hack authorI am not sure he could be called leftist, since he said that the poor and middle-classes are ruining the world, peasants are only good as slaves, was in favor of industrialization, and that people shouldn't care for environmental causes since his state has a lot of green, and people could just do like him and just book a plane to Spain if they wanted to see some forests.
Not to double post but I'm just think about each Yozi's personal "reclamation".SWLIHN - Removing free will from everyone.Ceccylne - Transforming everyone in Creation into a demon under her hierarchy.Malfeas - Make Creation a part of his "hell body" by turning it into Hell.Ebon Dragon - Marry the Scarlett Empress.Kimbery - Drown Creation? Fill Creation with only creatures that have spawned from her depths?Adorjan - Turn Creation into herself - fill it with daughters and children who are as silent as her.Oramus - ?Isidoros and Szoreny - Get pardoned by being helpful and just doing their own thing.Cytherea - Make a new Creation with new rules.Hegra - Everyone is dreaming and high.
>>98190066>I still say the ultimate end game is hooking up with a Yozi.What build would be necessary to knock up the Yozi and every one of their component souls/demons? Preferably at once.
>>98190098Kimbery is Dukantha opening the floodgates of her waters into Creation's.
>>98189199These are a mix of canon and non-canon I used for my ExWoD game. 1/7
>>98190287canon and headcanon*
>>98190292Realized 3/5/6 are just updates on the same map, so just posting this one.
>>98190295Last one. I affectionately refer to the World of Darkness as 'the Five-Layer Burritoverse' to my players.
>>98188233What's subversive about Sol in GoD. exactly? GoD shows him having self-serving but perfectly sympathetic reasons for rising against the Primordials, and it also shows him being aware of the possibility that he, too, might be rebelled against, and preferring that to not happen. He doesn't do anything worse than that, and neither of those things is bad. He's obviously not your best friend Jesus Christ Superman, but it's not like he's depicted as that before GoD in 1E, either. What expectations of yours were subverted by not!Zeus wanting to be and remain king?>>98188290I don't think 4chan is the place for you if people disagreeing with you makes you react tgat strongly.>Its morons like you that repeated over and over that there is anything of value in this rotten pile of refuse.People repeat it because it's true. Also why the fuck are you spending your limited time on a thread dedicated to a game you consider to be a "pile of refuse"? Don't you have anything else going on in your life?>>98188330Sidereal elders are Exalted. The game's called Exalted, it's about the Exalted, that's why the Exalted are active while the most powerful gods really aren't. It's not more complicated than that.>>98188878Strength-of-Many was pretty cool. Has he been mentioned in 3E so far?
>>98190301Nta but these are very cool.How did you mix Exalted and WoD cosmologies together?I've been toying with the idea that the Garou's Wyld/Wyrm/Weaver are the Scarlet Empress post-Transcendent Gaian Harmony 5 (ruler of the Yang world), the Ebon Dragon (ruler of the Yin world), and Asna Firstborn (created pattern spiders, queen Ananasa is said to be a backup of the Weaver, and the end of Creation could have been catastrophic enough that Asna turned on some contingencies left behind by Auto and tried to keep the Loom going by herself). The Wan Kuei and Imbued would have been created through Endowment charms by some of the last beings that remember the prowess of the Exalted.
>>98190372>I've been toying with the idea that the Garou's Wyld/Wyrm/Weaver are the Scarlet Empress post-Transcendent Gaian Harmony 5 (ruler of the Yang world), the Ebon Dragon (ruler of the Yin world), and Asna Firstborn (created pattern spiders, queen Ananasa is said to be a backup of the Weaver, and the end of Creation could have been catastrophic enough that Asna turned on some contingencies left behind by Auto and tried to keep the Loom going by herself).I've also had a similar thought about the Weaver being either Asna Firstborn or something new built from the remnants of the Loom of Fate, shattered by some calamity in the past. Maybe those remnants hooked into Asna Firstborn, I dunno, it was not an idea I really worked to develop or anything. My idea about Wyrm was that he could be Autochthon, though, having helped tinker together a new cosmic order after the one in Creation's current day was shattered and adopted sort of a moderator's role in the new order and then getting caught into Weaver's webs as the Wyrm in Werewolf lore did. My idea was that Autochthon's desperste struggle to free himself hastened the spread of his illness, that the Wyrm's Autochthon completely overcome by his robo-cancer, that Wyrm's influence is that illness spreading beyond him, and that Wyrm primary tool on Earth, the Pentex, making a heavy use of modern industry to fuck things up for everyone is at least partially a twisted reflection of Autochthon's affinity with technology. That's a half-formed idea, though, and Ebon Dragon as the Wyrm would be a more straightforward idea.
>>98190455>I've also had a similar thought about the Weaver being either Asna Firstborn or something new built from the remnants of the Loom of FateYeah, and it ties to both the Weaver being called Grandmother and to how Celestial Directions describe Asna as having capabilities that she doesn't really use, like inserting new directives into the pattern spiders or severing beings from the Loom, but that she sometimes considers whether she should use - "she would need some great push before she made them a reality—another cataclysm that threatened the whole of Creation, perhaps, or the return of her creator", you say?>the Wyrm's Autochthon completely overcome by his robo-cancer, that Wyrm's influence is that illness spreading beyond him, and that Wyrm primary tool on Earth, the Pentex, making a heavy use of modern industry to fuck things up for everyone is at least partially a twisted reflection of Autochthon's affinity with technologyOh that's a really interesting idea. I was tying Auto to the Machine due to what Revised says about Alchemicals, but I can definitely see where you were going with this.
>>98190455>Ebon Dragon as the Wyrm would be a more straightforward idea.A wyrm, a dragon, the Ebon Dragon is mentioned by name in Kindred of the East as the incarnation of Yin, he was always the Yozi most involved with the underworld...I was going with the idea that he managed to escape but his Scarlet Empress plan didn't go fully as planned, and then found himself in a world on the verge of destruction and helped a little simply because he did not want to die and be consumed by Oblivion (enlightened self-interest is part of his domain/excellency). Although you could also make a case that this Wyrm/Ebon Dragon is in truth a former Infernal who got the Charms to permanently turn into his patron Yozi, or even the Dragon That Was that could have become King of the Neverborn.It's also interesting in the sense that part of the Ebon Dragon's identity is that he "can’t abide his own restraint, whether by prison walls or social mores", that's why he gets stuff like Cracked Cell Circumvention. And the Wyrm is said to have cone insane from *imprisonment*...
>>98190587Yeah, you can really see all the old connections that linked Exalted to the World of Darkness. Something something by his nature if the entire world is completely consumed by evil then it's up to the Ebon Dragon to go against that. There is also, what, World of Darkness with it's morality system and the Ebon Dragon being connected to morality.2e and 3e has a lot of these old recycled ideas too even if they're far less direct.
>>98190598>Yeah, you can really see all the old connections that linked Exalted to the World of Darkness. Something something by his nature if the entire world is completely consumed by evil then it's up to the Ebon Dragon to go against that. There is also, what, World of Darkness with it's morality system and the Ebon Dragon being connected to morality.A shadow can't exist with no light to cast it. But at the same time, it's still the Ebon Dragon so no wonder the world is so bad if that's one of the main architects behind the reconstruction, and no wonder the insane Wyrm is so evil, ruining everything was always in its nature
>>98190587Ebon Dragon in WoD is free and would appear to work towards saving rather than destroying the world, though, right? I don't think he works as the same entity as the Wyrm.
>>98190372Exalted's metaphysic is like Mage's, its fundamentally mutable. Essence/Quintessence is the only unchanging universal. So the short version is 'Stuff happened'.>The Wyld is the Wyld. Garou have some misconceptions about it. Reaching true Wyld in the Fifth Age means going into the Deep Umbra to the very edge of the solar system. The assumption is the WoD is a single solar system surrounded by primal chaos per Mage.>The Wyrm is the Yozi after a couple more rounds of cannibalism and incest.>The Ebon Dragon is the Ebon Dragon possessing his own Fetich and escaping Malfeas before the above went down.>Scarlet Phoenix is somehow the Scarlet Empress, now stuck as ED's wife.>The August Personage of Jade is Ligier.>The UCS split into the Celestine Helios and all the various solar Incarnae [including Zerachiel, archangel of the Sun, a prominent NPC in my game]. Naturally none of the sun gods know this.>Luna is Luna, a survivor to the end. The ages have changed her. Some things she remembers, others she doesn't. >Gaia, Autochthon, and the Neverborn are per Exalted. Gais is out in the Deep Umbra looking for the Shining Answer. Her fetich is Eshtarra, her Planetary Incarna. Autobot is posing as Computer, the Seal presumably broke aeons ago leaving him in the Umbra.>The Weaver is an artificial Primordial designed by my Circle's past selves as part of a scheme to stop inter-Chosen conflict in a futuristic High Second Age following the Solar's return that backfired and resulted in the creation of the Gauntlet and the Planetary Defense Grid getting taken over by Skynet, turned to random and causing a war of every Exalt on every Exalt that eventually destroyed their civilization until the Lunar's past life built the Black Vault.The 100,000 year gap was the epic stone age from the Fera books on a compressed timeline. The Mokole stuff happened 65,000 years ago instead of 65,000,000, for instance.
>>98190810The Wan Xian were probably the Terrestials in ancient China, having rebuilt their numbers after the long stone age, trying to rebuild their hegemony with another fake religion casting them as semi-divine immortals. Clearly things didn't go as planned. The whole plot about the Weaver and my Circle accidentally creating the World of Darkness was the backstory to my campaign. This cryptic stone tablet was found by the Circle and included some hints to the story as well as their first detailed description of what Celestial Exalted are...like 50 sessions into the game.
>>98190817Obviously substitute Yugi and Kaiba for two of my Exalts. This was pre-AI so I'm proud of what I got in paint. It specifically depicts the Infernal and the Solar, who were/are rivals.
>>98189312So edgy, so much SOVL
>>98190817This pic is amazing, thank you for letting me steal it
>>98190826Here's what it said in character, translated from Old Realm, and the music I put with it.>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY3o1XhIAAE>Bottom of tablet: "Chosen" "Heaven" "Ancient War" "Sealed" "Celestial Exalted" "World-Ending" "Weaver Project" "Warning" "Danger" "Eon" "Heroes" "Old Dragon Princess" "Forbidden"Body:In the beginning was the Wyld, in dwelt Faerie.From the Wyld came the Primordials. They were twisted and far from human.The Primordials said to each other 'Let us play at gods and worlds, and take our leisure, and play the Games of Divinity' and so they made all things. They made the gods as slaves to tend the world.The Unconquered Sun was war-chieftan of the gods in those days. He said to his subjects 'Let us overthrow our creators, and then we will take our leisure and play the Games of Divinity'. And the gods saw that this was good, but a great geas had been placed upon the gods and all great things so they would not harm their creators.So the Sun went to Autochthon, the Great Maker, and said to him 'Take my Essence and make of it heroes'. And each Celestine gave. From the Unconquered Sun came the Solars, princes of the earth and rulers of men. From many-faced Luna sprung the Lunars, hunters, divine predators, and stewards of creation. The Celestines of the other planets were not given to war, and from them sprung the Sidereals, seers of heaven. Theirs was the province of things not yet seen. These the Great Maker took of the Celestines and humanity and made of them heroes, Exalting them above all over men.[1/2]
>>98190837The Celestial Exalted warred upon the Primordials and were victorious. The gods took their leisure, and gave unto the Exalted the earth, and their invincible kingdom was called the Realm. For a timeless age they ruled in truth.But the Wheel turns. The heroes grew indolent, and for time without measure the Exalted contended with one another, their kingdoms rose and their kingdoms fell, and darkness was again upon the face of the earth. What was lost will come again, what was old will be new. The Cycle of Day will follow a World of Night, and all will be like it was. The Old Dragon Princess leaves these words to read with her own eyes. Till then let no eye see, nor ear hear, nor mind to understand. Till we forget all our old hatreds, till we're all children again. Then with children's eyes make dim the Red Star, and unweave old webs.The story begins and ends with the Weaver.>This tablet was found by archeologists in the same room the Black Vault was in, along with a chest containing a book of technology and sorcery key to the Lunar's backstory.
>>98189312Interesting passage, despite people being louts. Prior to Player's Guide thaumaturges were referred to as mortal sorcerers. Player's Guide introduced thaumaturgy as a system. In this passage the PoV character goes 'Until, like, six weeks before, I was an apprentice court sorcerer in a city in the Hundred Kingdoms that you have never fucking heard of'. I wonder if he's really considering himself a thaumaturgist or true sorcerer here - he considers himself an "apprentice court sorcerer", and if anybody is going to know the difference between thaumaturgy and sorcery it's him, but the implication that you can be an actual full on sorcerer and still be an apprentice in some bodunk kingdom implies that either mortal sorcerers (True) are surprisingly common in 1e or that despite being an occultist of some stripe he's not knowledgeable enough to tell the difference between thaumaturgists and sorcerers. I suppose a situation where one sorcerer apprentices to an older sorcerer to try to pick up their spells would also make sense, but it's not the kind of arrangement I would expect to have you called a court sorcerer.
>>98190844Another explanation might be that, while the term "sorcerer" is clearly defined as a gane mechanical term, it might not be as clear in-setting. Maybe even knowledgeable people call all sorts of mystics and miracle-workers sorcerers, or maybe actual sorcerers tend to be strict about how the term should be used with other people being more relaxed about it. Maybe court sorcerer just sounds fancier and more important than court thaumaturgist and kings and thaumaturgists alike prefer the term. Or, considering the previous use of the term mortal sorcery, maybe whoever wrote that piece of fiction forgot the current terminology.>>98189312Technically the first words are "...and then the bartender said". Which is a meaningful difference, as it makes the whole thing an in-setting view of a dude with an obviously irreverent attitude.
>>98190882Sorcerer : Thaumaturge is roughly equivalent to Celebrity : Influencer. The line can be blurry depending on who you are and how self-obsessed the mage in question is.
Was there a way in ExWoD to create Essence batteries to have backup motes for emergencies? I'm not sure if a Wonder, Fetish or whatever can do it or not.
>>98190650There is also the fact he is probably the one responsible for either the Shih or the Imbued.
>>98191134You can't do it with Exalted Wonder-working because Periapts (the kind of wonder which are batteries for quintessence/essence) are explicitly not available as craft options in the ExWoD craft charms. Can't make Trinkets for the same reason. I don't think there's any canon fetish that does it either.The two options I see as most likely to work are: You can have a friendly/bound spirit willing and able to transfer you it's essence, or you can be an Abyssal and keep some snacks around. Pull a Mahito and shrink down some humans to slap in a bag as disposables, or pull a Yuta and have your spirit gf carry your bag. I have no idea why that particular reference spat into my brain but whatever, I guess it works.
>>98191505>I don't think there's any canon fetish that does it either.There are gaian bags/waterskins that allow you to store Gnosis.
>>98190844>>98190882Mind, in 1e mortal/god-blooded Sorcerers need Occult 5 and Essence 3 to learn Emerald Circle Sorcery
Do exalts have to learn charms from someone or can they just invent them reflexively?Like say I have a night caste who likes using shurikens, then he's going to instinctively develop thrown charms that make him better at throwing shurikens. But if he doesn't use swords a lot he's not going to have a lot of melee charms.
>>98193275They just come up with them. Native charms don't actually exist, they're just an abstraction of your natural skill. You need a technically need a trainer for Martial arts charms, but unless you're learning Sidereal Martial Arts then don't worry about it.
>>98193275>1e Core p. 271>Canon Caste/Favoured Charm, without trainer>(Minimum Ability) x2 days>Canon Caste/Favoured Charm, with trainer>(Minimum Ability) days>Canon non-Caste/Favoured Charm, without trainer>(Minimum Ability + minimum Essence) x2 days>Canon non-Caste/Favoured Charm, with trainer>(Minimum Ability + minimum Essence) days>Homebrew Caste/Favoured Charm>(Minimum Ability) x4 days>Homebrew non-Caste/Favoured Charm>(Minimum Ability + minimum Essence) x4 days
>>98193339also
>>98193275They unlock at thematically appropriate moments as long as you have the XP to spend on them. It's sort of a level above a 3 dot stunt
>>98193339>>98193356huh, I just realised there's no training time for combos.And the Combos section in Charms and Sorcery doesn't mention any definite time it takes.>Characters develop Combos through long exercise of their powers, devoting hours of effort toward integrating their abilities and understanding their Charms and how they interact. Many characters will have done this prior to the beginning of play, as least to a limited degree. Starting play with a Combo costs a number of a number of freebie points equal to the number of Charms in the Combo.>During play, a character can develop Combos through arduous practice. The experience cost of Combos developed during play is equal to the sum of the minimum Ability values of the Charms. However, Storytellers don’t have to let a character learn a Combo just because the player has enough experience points saved up. Combos are hard, they don’t just develop overnight or when you really need them. Think about martial arts movies — the characters go through arduous training to learn their new secret moves or are forced to find teachers. Make learning new maneuvers part of the game, not just a matter of writing something new down on a character sheet.
>>98193289>They just come up with them. Native charms don't actually exist, they're just an abstraction of your natural skill.This is a filthy lie borne from a George Lucas tier retcon they introduced for no reason in particular.
>>98193275It's instinctive but can also be taught.If he starts training with a sword, he will naturally figure out cool tricks, aka charms, to enhance his swordsmanship just like he figured them out for his shurikens.But if he knows a guy that can, for example, cut people 30 feet away with a gust of wind from his sword, he can ask that guy how he does it to learn that power specifically.
Typically I see ice being associated with water a lot but in exalted it seems air is more closely associated with coldness and ice like how the pole of air is in the north.So if I wanted an ice themed character like Dr. Freeze/Crystal Maiden it be an air aspect instead of water aspect. Can you freeze someone with an air aspect anima or would you use charms and sorcery?
What does the eye of autocthon do?I read about how this one guy used it to create an empire that was almost as powerful as the realm, and then one day it literally vanished from existence.
>>98193659Ice is Air aspected in Exalted, you're correct. A DB ice beam attack would be the Elemental Bolt charm
>>98193691It's a non-specific maguffin that can do literally anything you and your ST want it to do
>>98193339>>Homebrew Caste/Favoured Charm>>(Minimum Ability) x4 days>>Homebrew non-Caste/Favoured Charm>>(Minimum Ability + minimum Essence) x4 days>⅘ of your charms were meant to be homebrew.I am getting mixed signals.
Lol, those DBs are getting penetrated one way or the other.
>>98193787They wanted the Raw to be kind of a pain in the ass so the STs would have an easier time Vetoing shit indirectly. This shit isn't the first time we seen this type of stuff but it still is annoying.
>>98193339Are the minimum abilities the talking about the sum or the highest requisite?
>>98193827A Charm has a minimum Ability and Essence requirements you need to have to learn it, that one.For example, Craftsman Needs No Tools has Craft 5 Essence 3 requirements, so if it was a Favoured/Caste Charm and you had a trainer you need 5 days, or if it wasn't F/C you'd need 8 days.And double those if you don't have someone training you for it.
>>98193624GOADED doesn't begin to describe how awesome you are...Thank you!!!
>>98193624Looking very Azula there, Lyta.
>>98193378anon its literally in the next sentence of what you quoted>As a general rule, training for a Combo takes a number of days equal to three times the sum of the minimum Abilities of the Charms in the Combo.
>>98194121It follows immediately with>GENERAL GUIDELINES>Combos may only be developed between Charms of instant duration. A Combo can include more than two Charms but cannot include the same Charm more than once. Storytellers are always free to veto the Comboing of certain Charms, and the Storyteller’s decision is final when it comes to defining how a given Combo works.>Once a Combo is bought, it is set. While there is no limit to the number of Combos a character can develop, a character cannot add Charms to a Combo after she develops it. A character who wishes to add another Charm to a Combo will have to purchase the Combo again, with the additional Charm in it. The character willthen know both versions of the Combo.>When a Combo is activated, there is an unmistakably brilliant display of Essence. Any character present will know that the Exalted is using a Combo the moment she pays the temporary Willpower to activate it. However, he will not know the exact nature of the Combo until he has seen it used once. The display of a Combo’s activation is very distinctive, and once a character has seen it activated, he will be able to recognize it if he sees it again.
