>>98201512
> What are your thoughts on this setting?
Seems cool, it's sad that the premade adventure were very lackluster.
On the other side the campaign of the old videogames was pretty neat.
It would be cool to adapt the videogame into a tabletop campaign.

>>98201512
>thoughts?
I'm not really interested in it, being a D&D setting and all.

>>98201599
Yeah the adventures where very meh. The setting itself is very rich and vivid
>>98201614
Fair, you can run it in other systems but,Folks have to really like things to convert em

>>98201512
Best DnD setting by far. It's actually unique and interesting instead of a kitchen sink of generic fantasy slop.

>>98201907
It's what made me fall in love with unique settings. I recall chatting with some old TSR guys over on the old dragonsfoot chat, apparently it was hell to get TSR to allow them to go as far as they did.

>>98201512
Wasn't there some UA material for 5.5 /2024 d&d involving this setting? Did it end up just becoming nothing?

>>98201512
I really want to play a game of D&D that's secretly on Pre-Fuckening Athas where midway through, Arcane Magic starts polluting everything.

>>98201987
They did have one out, nothing has come of it yet. There are a few fab conversions floating around

>>98202028
A green age/cleansing war game could be a hell of a lot of fun. What we know of the green age sounded fun.

>>98201702
Dark Sun HERO used to exist, but the website isn't on the wayback machine sadly.

>>98202048
Bummer, it's sad when these fan labors of love vanish

>>98201907
well the good thing about kitchen sinks is how much materials is out there and how easy is to insert things into a campaign
you have castle, dungeons, whole campaigns
for the world of Athas you need to craft almost everything from 0
not much material for post apocalyptic fantasy worlds

>>98201512
Great setting, better suited to Runequest or Mythras than any edition of Dee en Dee

>>98202190
NTA, but if you have ruins they are easy to use in Athas, you are correct in needing to modify them however.

>>98202217
Never really looked at Mythras, but those might be interesting conversions

>>98201512
I've been playing a campaign in this setting which had recently had its one year anniversary.
The DM converted the mechanics of the setting to work for 5E. We started with the A Little Knowledge module and we recently killed Kalak of Tyr. We're right at the beginning of the next arc.
My character is a Tiefling Templar from Raam. Although her magic is more of a side effect of being a child of Abalach-Re.

As for the setting, I do appreciate all the lore that feels unique than the typical settings. It feels very thought out rather than trying to do what is expected. I definitely enjoy Templar lore over regular Warlock lore. I still have a bias towards Eberron for simply having more player options.
Maybe it's because the DM is actually having all the lore be reflected in the game so it's extra neat seeing things I know OOC in game.
I've also been reading through the books and gotten up to The Amber Enchantress.

>>98202486
Glad you are having fun with it. I only ever ran it in 2e, so never tried any of the conversations. There is some very deep lore, the more you learn of the green age the more you see it wasn't just standard d&d fantasy itself. The world really feels like it's build on the ruins of a fleshed out idea.

>>98202486
>My character is a Tiefling Templar from Raam.
> Athas
> Tiefling
Come on anon, are you even trying.
Why insult your dm like that? Do you hate him?

>>98202768
NTA but that is more on the GM for allowing tieflings. Pretty sure Wotc shoe horned them in with 4e

>>98201599
> pre-made adventures
The spiral notebook format of the first adventures didn’t help. Interesting idea but poor execution.
>>98202217
> better suited to Runequest
Good point. Most of Glorantha is a bit too lore-heavy to invite a casual stroll, but the Pavis/Prax region always stroke me as the perfect setting for beginners who want to have some mindless sword’n sorcery fun (Bronze Age style).

>>98202500
Idk, the Green Age seems like basic DnD. However, all I know about it is from Kemalok where we see classic Dwarven stuff. I still have three books to read.

>>98202768
1. As >>98202828 said, they were added in 4E
2. Raamite Templars can be anyone as seen in Dragon Magazine 390
3. Abalach-Re will fuck anyone
Admittedly I mentioned wanting to play a Tiefling Warlock prior to learning about the setting, but my DM made it work.

In my current campaign, few people know what a Tiefling is, and even less even seen one. Most people just treat my character as a mutant. Which is funny because Nibenay canonically has a blue mutant son and my Tiefling is blue. I didn't plan that.
We recently discovered that no Sorcerer King had the charge for Tiefling. They are made somehow.
Been pretty cool to RP

>>98201907
>Best DnD setting by far.
lol
lmao, even

>>98201907
theros is as good

>>98202920
>>Idk, the Green Age seems like basic DnD.

I guess to me the level of psionics alone makes it very different. Cities were ruled by lawmakers, they used undead as forever enforcers, they tended to rip criminals minds out and put them in orbs and have them do tasks we would use computers for. They also had mass transit systems and don't forget green age halflings had biotech and engineered symbols.

>>98203018
MTG setting that has a D&D supplement =/= a D&D setting.

Was the Halfling thing a retcon? Like the dragon’s master was some insane halfling who wanted to terraform the world back into an oceanic paradise after killing off everyone else, including humans?
Did I fucking hallucinate that??

>>98203024
Okay, I got to none of that lore yet.

>>98203047
No, you got it right, mostly. The halfings ruler the world in the blue age. As it died they more or less bio morphed themselves into all the other races,.

Rajaat, was of a race called the Pyreen. Immortals, but he was deformed. He created magic, both types and thought his very being and all other life of the rebirth was a mistake.

So he trained up some human racists and set about in his holy race war. It was near the end when his champions figured out,halfings not humans were meant to inherit the world.

So they double crossed him and became dragons

>>98201512
Despite all the D&D hate I think 3.5 was the best system for Dark Sun. It's a setting with so much potential. I played through the first module of it but the way my DM ran it was kind of crap. It felt very on rails without us having a meaningful impact. I think he should have just made it our version of Dark Sun without worrying about sticking to canon.

>>98203018
Wut? It's just NOT ancient Greece with some bullshit Gods.

>>98203060
That's fair it's buried in different places. There is one halfing culture left that still knows how to life shaped and the hidden civilization of the last sea gives you a snapshot of the green age civilizations.

And interesting thing to keep in mind is all races of athas except the keen are decended from Blue age halflings life shapers.

>>98203075
It is a fantastic and weird setting. Have you checked out the stuff Athas org has been putting out? They never stopped adding stuff and some of it is interesting

>>98203074
As someone who read the books I like how evocative this is in a 4chan post and how dogshit the execution was IRL

>>98203094
Setting books or novels? And if so which box set, because I felt they read differently. I have both boxed sets and although some folks dislike the time jump I like the revised box

>>98202486
>I've been playing a campaogn in Dark Sun
>the next arc
>my character is a Tiefling
Rarely have I ever wanted someone to commit kys more urgently.

>>98202044
>green age/cleansing war
I am confused by what you mean. The Green Age ended and the Red Age began at the exact instant whatshisname drained power from the sun to make his lackeys the generals who would conduct the Cleansing Wars. Homebrew if you want but by TSR's definition the Cleansing Wars were the Red Age not Green Age.

>>98203075
>Despite all the D&D hate I think 3.5 was the best system for Dark Sun.
What makes you feel that 3.5 was better than 3.0 or 2.0? How much experience did you have with 2.0 that you think either version of 3.x was better suited?

>I played through the first module of it but the way my DM ran it was kind of crap. It felt very on rails without us having a meaningful impact.
The flipbook modules were 100% on rails. Even after the metaplot of Tyr's citizens revolting was achieved the flipbooks were on rails. Some people say Dragonlance was on rails, ignoring that there were more than just the first few modules, but the DS flipbooks were far, far worse than Dragonlance's efforts. The very format of flipbooks was designed for rails. It wasn't just production costs (it was poor sales too) that sent TSR back to ordinary perfect bound booklets which like often on rails just as much as first edition modules often were though less obviously.

>>98203180
The cleansing war was at end of the green age yes. Although it didn't end at once. The cleansing wars lasted over a 1000 years.

I think you are getting riled up over nothing

>>98203244
>>often on rails just as much as first edition modules often were though less obviously.

This is always the key. So not make the rails super obvious. I think rails are fine, just don't let the players know they are on them.

Which Sorcerer King would you like to serve /tg/?

>>98201512
It's a setting clearly not suited for modern DnD

>>98203405
I think it could work fine with the system. But it's a PR nightmare they keep trying to clean up to be more "E" for everyone

>>98202190
Just don't be a shit DM

>>98203416
It leans into procedure play and by extension, DM fiat. 5e is a button pushing game, not a resource management game. Square peg and a round hole and all that.

>>98203439
You can run that in 5e just fine. Hell the DMG tells you how to do that. The 5e system can run it easily

>>98203254
>The cleansing war was at end of the green age yes.
Even ignoring that you're wrongly calling it war instead of Wars plural you're not even a little bit right.
>Although it didn't end at once.
But it did. Periods of time aren't always marked by abrupt transitions in culture and politics and geography and things like that but they can still have hard cut off dates. The Victorian Era ended and the Edwardian Era began in one day even if people behaved identically the days before and after.
For all your wrong conflation of Green Age with the Cleansing Wars you're ignoring that there were 4000+ years between those two periods called the Time of Magic. The Green Age ended when Rajaat learnt defiler magic over 200 years of practice. Even if culturally, geographically, politically, people probably wouldn't have been able to point to many changes from one day to the next, only slight gradual changes noticeable over a long time there's still a cut off date that marks the end of the Green Age.
It's even clearer with the period of time called the Cleansing Wars. It doesn't matter if most things on Athas didn't change instantly and that the champions didn't start their genocidal campaigns the very second Rajaat's spell was cast. The period called the Cleansing Wars started only as Time of Magic ended. It is a firm line dated when Rajaat cast his spell, empowered his champions and changed the colour of the sun. The Green Age had long since been over by the time of the Cleansing Wars. Even if you want to try to argue that the Time of Magic was just a special name given to the end of the Green Age, the Green Age was still over.
>I think you are getting riled up over nothing
Someone politely says they are confused and explains what they know about things and you say they're getting riled. I won't be the first person to say you are way too sensitive.

>>98203461
Dude you are even getting the history wrong. The green age didn't end until Rajaat turned the sun read at the start of the cleaning war. The big ages are marked by the Blue, yellow and red sun. The time of magic is in the green age. Where are you getting this from?

You got upset because I said green age/cleansing war campaign. Because for your characters it would be that. I know the lore dude

>>98203445
This conversation’s been had before by smarter men than me, and I don’t want to step on your toes, so I’ll just say this: You CAN run anything in 5e. You can play Superman and fight Lex Luthor in 5e.
But there are better games for Supes and there are far, far superior games for timekeeping and resource play. Old DnD, OSR, that stuff is much better.
5e isn’t. It’s passable at best, downright insufficient at worst, regardless of the barebones data they feed you in the DMG.
But you know, one man’s trash and all that

>>98203244
>What makes you feel that 3.5 was better than 3.0
3.5 was just a better 3.0 there is absolutely no reason not to play 3.5 over 3.0. 2e was shit and I played plenty of it at the time.

>>98203024
Misc from Baldur’s Gate was originally from a Dark Sun game.
In that version, the Green Age was Faruen and the rest of the FR setting. But mind you that was with the original DS box set. Which is much vaguer with the lore and implications.

>>98203477
>You got upset, you got upset!
NAYRT and I don't even know which one of you kaniggas is right about the lore, but this is faggot behavior.

>>98201512
I think going 'in this setting, magic is destructive and hated and policed heavily by the tyrants ruling what's left of civilization' and them just making safe magic with psionics is kinda gay.

>>98203568
That was the developers own home game. Nothing official or anything. The guy just liked his character so ported it over

>>98204705
It you don't like it, you don't like it. Personally I find it the most original and creative setting TSR ever put out

>>98202231
a conversion already exists anon. it's homebrew of course but it is good enough as far as i can tell. I am sure you could find it if you looked around.
I also remember a mythras conversion for al qadim besides the generic adnd version of mythras called classic fantasy

>>98204802
Fan conversions are interesting. I have a few versions converted to savage worlds, which I personally think would work pretty well with the setting

>>98201702
>you can run it in other systems
The only games I ever run now are made by me, and instead of converting a D&D setting I'm going to have to change, I may as well just make my own gritty setting that fits into my game better from the get-go.

>>98201512
Not always.

>>98204915
That's fair, I make my own setting most times. But some folks just love a setting, they want to run games in that setting so they convert it. Really when you convert you don't make the setting fit the rules, you make the rules for the setting

>>98204705
Hard same. I can even kinda understand wanting to make psionics a more prominent feature since they were in the game from OD&D but always a sort of weird appendix/afterthought. But the execution stinks.

>>98205607
I always felt the psionics worked as it's not an afterthought, it's a built in setting assumption. It's integrated every step of the way

>Swords and Sorcery though a D&D lens.
????
Dark Sun is high magic not much sword and sorcery about it
It has more in common with John Carter of Mars than it does with Conan

>>98206003
No, dark suns is sword and sorcery and very much not high magic at all. Canon is not the only S&S series. You can look this up, DS is considered S&S

>>98204705
I can understand this feeling if you're playing Dark Sun converted to a later edition (or non-D&D system) since by 3e psionics is effectively spellcasting with a few tweaks (or zero tweaks in later editions). But if you're running 2e psionics I don't think "safe magic" is a fair descriptor. It's quite different. Not good, but different.

>>98206755
NTA but good or bad 2e psionics didn't feel like magic. Or at lest what d&d uses as magic. It felt very different

>>98205773
What kind of a response is that? It's inarguably a weird appendix *in the game rules*. As for the setting the whole point is Anon's (accurate) contention that it's stupid to have a setting where the core gimmick is that magic is a destructive and inherently corrupting force, only to then turn around and say "oh, but you can use BAGIC which is totally safe and widespread".

>>98207781
But it's not, they have long been treated as two very different things. The point is psionics isn't magic, it does not even work by the same rules.

Hell d&d treats arcane and divine magic as two totally different things and they are using the very same rules and system with only a fluff difference.

on Athas psionics is natural, it's part of the world and always has been. In the blue age it was mostly used for lifeshaping, but as that knowledge was lost it went in other directions in the green age.

Arcane magic was created by taking life from the natural world and twisting it. It does not follow the natural laws, it was the creation of an immortal with more power than he should have.

Divine power is similar, it's something else giving you power you don't have yourself. On Athas you only get it with linking yourself to a powerful spirit, sorcerer king or element.

I don't see how any of that doesn't fit. I find it interesting and at lest they didn't cope out with " it's the very same thing, but different" you have in almost every setting

>>98207781
It was a weird appendix in 1e AD&D, but that was no longer the case by the time Dark Sun was being developed. I dare you to read the 2e Complete Psionics Handbook and say "yeah, this is just like arcane magic."

>>98203416
>be more "E" for everyone
the more you do that the more you become "N" for no one

>>98206021
>No, dark suns is sword and sorcery
It isn't
>and very much not high magic at all
Many of the states are ruled by wizards what are you on about?
>Canon is not the only S&S series
Nice Spelling of conan there retard
>You can look this up, DS is considered S&S
No it isn't

>>98208846
You may dislike it but Dark suns is sword and sorcery

>>Many of the states are ruled by wizards what are you on about

That is not high magic man. High magic is a very different thing then "evil immortal dragons rule the drying world they created with life stealing dark magic"

Dark suns is a savage,magic-ravaged desert world where resources are scarce and survival is a daily struggle. It's very DNA is S&S

>>98203060
you want the mind lords book

>>98209211
Please explain how Dark sun is more sword and sorcery than mystara or greyhawk or blackmoor
>Dark suns is a savage,magic-ravaged desert world where resources are scarce and survival is a daily struggle. It's very DNA is S&S
The Hyborian age is not like that.
Elric's Young Kingdoms are not like that.
Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser's Newhon is not like that.
Do you get your knowledge of sword and sorcery from shitty comics and vidya? have you actually read any sword and sorcery?

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>>98201512
I love Dark Sun. Pic related is my one-pager intro from when I ran it, last year. I always produce a one-pager for my players. They were slaves bought as gladiators for the games. The decennial rains were late and the dragon was near, and Kalak was holding great games to produce The Dragon's sacrifice of one thousand souls. The rains came during their training at, wouldn't you know it? the same time The Dragon was seen striding across the horizon. Panic broke out and our heros escaped into the city with an old man who led them to the Veiled Alliance. Or, at least a cell of the Veiled Alliance. Just three members who totally aren't all that's left and lying about it because the entire rest of the organization was recently hunted down and murdered by Kalak's Templar. The players took some jobs from their "cell," before eventually discovering that they were all their was that's left in Tyr, and continuing on to build the Alliance themselves. That's as far as we got before we turned to other games, but it was fun.

>>98207836
That's all meaningless window dressing. You're a dude who uses his mind to achieve miraculous, super-physical effects. It could use fucking Nanobots as it's narrative and it would still be the same thing. Psionics differ from generic magic systems neither in narrative consequence nor in character application.

At the end of the day, it's I-can't-believe-it's-not-Magic!.

>>98209312
Kinda a dumb argument. You wanna say "well if we ignore the setting, then it does the same thing" and the other anon is saying "in the setting they're very different things."

>>98209284
>play act 1 of a campaign
>switch to a different game
What causes this mental illness?

>>98209334
Interest in other games, anon. We can always go back to it if we wanna.

>>98209322
>well if we ignore the setting, then it does the same thing
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the difference between Psionics and Magic is purely nomenclature. Rename Dark Suns Psionics to "Sorcerous Magic" or whatever generic name takes your fancy, and tell me how that name clashes with how Psionics work in Dark Suns. I'll do your work for you: It doesn't clash, because there's genuinely nothing of essence that sets Psionics apart from Vancian or other generic fantasy magic. All the in-setting history works just as well if it's "good magic" vs "evil magic" or "red magic" vs "blue magic" rather than psionics vs arcane.

>>98209366
>That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the difference between Psionics and Magic is purely nomenclature. Rename Dark Suns Psionics to "Sorcerous Magic" or whatever generic name takes your fancy, and tell me how that name clashes with how Psionics work in Dark Suns. I'll do your work for you: It doesn't clash, because there's genuinely nothing of essence that sets Psionics apart from Vancian or other generic fantasy magic.
Right: if you ignore the in-universe lore and setting, then they do the same thing.

But people who play the games tend to like the lore and setting, anon. And in those, they are different things.

>>98209374
Congratulations, you're to stupid to read and comprehend two lines of text. American education?

>>98209422
Or you aren't making the point you think you are, dipshit.
>Rename Dark Suns Psionics to "Sorcerous Magic" or whatever generic name takes your fancy, and tell me how that name clashes with how Psionics work in Dark Suns.
You literally just said "change the setting." That's what those names and in-universe rationales are: the setting.

>>98209428
>The fact that Grumbledick the Ballscratcher used Bagic™©® in 2354 A.D. to scratch his balls makes it meaningfully distinct from any other generic Magic system, despite both being about blowing people's heads up with a gesture and a word.
Psionics are about as original as all those shitty dark fantasy novels that have Aelfes instead of Elves. I don't understand why it's always the lamest shit like this that enraptures the most defensive downies on the internet.

>>98209459
So you're just gonna try to start a new argument now that your last one got destroyed?

>lemme just pick those goal posts up and pretend they were over here the whole time
lol

>>98209465
Go back and re-read
>>98209366
You certainly need the practice.

>>98209513
You hoping that, if you link back to it, no one will notice that your argument totally failed?
>Rename Dark Suns Psionics to "Sorcerous Magic" or whatever generic name takes your fancy, and tell me how that name clashes with how Psionics work in Dark Suns
Yes anon: if you change the setting, it's different.

>>98209344
Why did you design a campaign that long then if you knew you were going to dip for other games before long? At minimum that's badly rarted.

>>98209530
Renaming one thing is the same thing as totally changing the setting? lmao, I guess you really are the target audience for Aelves.

>>98209322
Anon who says to ignore the setting is correct however because "yeah well I invented an in-game justification for it" is in no way a response to the critique that it's stupid to design a setting where magic is bad and then add a safe version of magic back in. That's not an in-game concern so it can't be responded to with lore.

>>98209542
I didn't "know," but I don't mind, either. I like GMing, anon. Writing things up is part of the fun, for me. Also I don't know what "rarted" means.

>>98209553
Yes, anon. He's correct that, if you ignore the setting, then psionics is functionally no different than any other kind of magic. It's only different in the game because there's an in-universe excuse to make it different that was written into the setting.

That's correct. No one is disputing that. It's ok if you don't like the setting, anon. No one is claiming that you're obligated to.

>>98209544
Correct: changing the setting is changing the setting.

>>98209572
>No one is disputing that.
Holy shit he's right, your reading compehension is shot. This is literally what was under dispute to begin with: whether or not that's a dumb way to design a setting. >>98204705 Go back to third grade, you need remedial reading lessons, Anon.

>>98209584
Anon, you need to follow the argument. Here's what I said: >>98209322

He said he's not changing the setting. I agree: the only difference is the setting. You think it's a "dumb way to design a setting?" That's fine. But there is a difference, in the setting and no, they're not the same thing, unless you change the setting.

>>98209251
Sword and sorcery does not have one definition. a subgenre of fantasy fiction featuring rugged, swashbuckling heroes engaged in violent, action-packed adventures. But Fritz Leiber felt it emphasizes personal battles, individual survival, and moral ambiguity, rather than the grand, world-saving quests typically found in high fantasy.

It's often seen to include dark magic. Athas all arcane magic is dark and consume life. The world is savage, it's all about struggle and personal power, there are no good guys. There are some folks slightly less selfish.

If you think Darksun did like any of the worlds you listed you have never read a damned one of them.

>>98209591
Good grief. No, YOU need to follow the argument. You made that response to a post in the chain about whether it's dumb to make a setting where magic is dangerous and then immediately introduce safe bagic, and Anon (and I, apparently) have been trying to explain to you why your post is retarded and irrelevant.

>>98209607
Anon, the post is simple: they aren't the same unless you change the setting.

You agree. You're saying "well but ignore the setting!" Ok. Yes: if you do that, they're the same. Which everyone agreed with. So what are you throwing a fit about?

>>98209604
Dark Sun absolutely expects you to embark on a grand, world-saving quest though, to the point that there's a whole novel series about it and that series' storyline was baked into the metaplot of the setting from day 1. Granted that many of the fans of the original box set think the metaplot ruined the setting more or less, it's still the case that Dark Sun had very 2e-ish expectations about what the PCs would be doing.

>>98209611
Okay, I've changed my mind, you have to be a troll. Nobody's naturally this retarded and obtuse.

>>98209622
You're trying to insult me while agreeing with me. It seems stupid, but you do you, I guess.

>>98209312
It's window dressing in every single setting ever. At lest in 2e it's an entirely different system. It's not magic, but it is supernatural.

>>Psionics differ from generic magic systems neither in narrative consequence nor in character application.

You have clearly never read or played 2e psionics. It is very different than the magic system

>>98209604
>a subgenre of fantasy fiction featuring rugged, swashbuckling heroes engaged in violent, action-packed adventures. But Fritz Leiber felt it emphasizes personal battles, individual survival, and moral ambiguity, rather than the grand, world-saving quests typically found in high fantasy.
Those grand world saving quests are found in Dark Sun. See >>98209616
>It's often seen to include dark magic. Athas all arcane magic is dark and consume life. The world is savage, it's all about struggle and personal power, there are no good guys. There are some folks slightly less selfish.
The world isn't particularly "savage" in any famous sword and sorcery setting.You'd know that if you read any.
>If you think Darksun did like any of the worlds you listed you have never read a damned one of them.
Dark Sun is not a sword and sorcery setting. Sword and Sorcery did not inspire it. It is mostly inspired by mad max and barsoom, not by the Hyborian age or Elric's young kingdoms.

>>98209945
Dilleneating any of these sub-sub-sub-genres this far is nonsense. Trying to draw lines of discrete geneology from the morass of popular culture is a fool's errand. You can make an argument that Dark Sun belongs in either sword and sorcery, high fantasy, or desert-fantasy-punk-brodome. Genres are tools for helping us compare works to one another and understand them in the context of what they do the same or differently from other works that are vaguely similar. There's no platonic form of "Genre X" floating out in space that we can clearly inspect the chromosomes of Dark Sun to compare against. When you guys start listing off what you think "primary" influences are to argue "it's X genre!" and "No it's Y!" you've almost certainly lost the plot. It can be described as either if, we wanna. And the degree to which that description is "true" is simply "the degree to which applying it is useful to us."

>>98209616
No that is adventures not the setting. And most of those are not even that. Just one series tied to novels with a bunch of unlikable asshole characters

>>98209945
No, the setting does not. You are confusing adventures (I know the ones) with the setting

>>world isn't particularly "savage" in any famous sword and sorcery setting.You'd know that if you read any.

You need to read more, savagery was the heart of Howards work. You keep bringing him up but do not seem to understand it.

>>Dark Sun is not a sword and sorcery setting. Sword and Sorcery did not inspire it. It is mostly inspired by mad max and barsoom, not by the Hyborian age or Elric's young kingdoms

Who told you that? I actually got to speak with some of those folks on DF back in the mid 2ks. And mad max had nothing to do with DS. It came out of a combo of Sword and sorcery and sword and planet authors.

You are pushing BS

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>>98210889
The Hyborian age is not a savage world. It is not a brutish, uncivilised world. The Barbarians are at the edges. Conan is an outlier because he is the barbarian superior to civilised man.
>Who told you that? I actually got to speak with some of those folks on DF back in the mid 2ks. And mad max had nothing to do with DS. It came out of a combo of Sword and sorcery and sword and planet authors.
Nothing in Dark Sun has anything in common with the Hyborian age, Elric's young Kingdoms, Leibers Newhon. Not one bit.

>>98210970
You really think sword and sorcery is so limited and you really do not understand howard at all. He himself called it savage more than once. The main character was a savage doing savage things.

>>in Dark Sun has anything in common with the Hyborian age, Elric's young Kingdoms, Leibers Newhon. Not one bit

It's not a copy of another world, but it was inspired by sword and sorcery and sword and planet. You don't even know what the inspiration was and it's clear you know very little of the setting

DM'ed a pretty long campaign back in highschool in the 90s using the cote rules and the Dune Trader suppliment, had the party roaming around taking their caravan from city to city buying and trading goods for profit and having planned side adventures between journeys it was half D&D and half Oregon Trail with a bit of stock market thrown in, It was pretty fun for everyone deciding what to buy/sell/carry to the next town, take more goods and less food? Does this spice sell for more in the next town? Should the slaves get out and walk so we can fit more barrels of salt but risk dying?

>>98211065
That sounds fun honestly. Some of those little fort town are weird and the caravans can be dangerous. And who knows when you'll cross over some old border and piss off an undead law keeper because you wore red when both moons were up

>>98211030
>You really think sword and sorcery is so limited and you really do not understand howard at all
I guarantee that I have read far more Howard than you have.
>He himself called it savage more than once
Howard never once called the Hyborian age "Savage". This is how he described it
>"Know, oh prince, that between the years when the oceans drank Atlantis and the gleaming cities, and the years of the rise of the Sons of Aryas, there was an Age undreamed of, when shining kingdoms lay spread across the world like blue mantles beneath the stars — Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyperborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and silk and gold. But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west. Hither came Conan, the Cimmerian, black-haired, sullen-eyed, sword in hand, a thief, a reaver, a slayer, with gigantic melancholies and gigantic mirth, to tread the jeweled thrones of the Earth under his sandalled feet."
Not exactly some kind of savage, primitive, barbaric world. "Shining Kingdoms" do not strike me as savage and uncivilised.
>The main character was a savage doing savage things.
He is a savage encountering civilisation in most of the stories.
>It's not a copy of another world, but it was inspired by sword and sorcery and sword and planet. You don't even know what the inspiration was and it's clear you know very little of the setting
It's a shit setting that is nothing like any Sword and Sorcery setting in existence. Greyhawk and Blackmoor are more sword and sorcery than Dark Sun.

>>98211202
I am not gonna keep arguing with you. It's clear you think you are some kind of authority on S&S even when it's clear you are not. Good for you, feel free to disagree with it being classified as sword and sorcery.

Don't like the setting? Don't read it, as you clearly have not. You do you.

>>98209312
>>98209366
Psionics did differ from magic in narrative consequence back when Dark Sun was written. They could fail to activate, even critically fail with a potential backlash effect. The system was inherently less reliable than magic, and the available powers didn't have nearly the same breadth of ability as wizards had available. It's not the fault of the setting designers that WOTC put psionics through several successive revamps that would make them virtually identical to magic.

>>98211753
I am getting the feeling some of these folks never looked at 2e psionics at all. It's not even a remotely similar thing to PHB spellcasting

>>98201512
Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms feel like they were hastily slapped together in service of the campaigns birthed from Chainmail's rules rather than the other way around, and Dragonlance seemed like a novel series first that was welded to D&D's cosmology for commercial synergy, while Dark Sun felt like the first time TSR was actually making a setting with intent, particularly as it had all the trappings of Gygax's sword and sorcery interests without being a shallow retread of Conan.

>>98211816
>>Dark Sun felt like the first time TSR was actually making a setting with intent, particularly as it had all the trappings of Gygax's sword and sorcery interests without being a shallow retread of Conan.


It is the first time they went outside the box for sure. To hear some of the old heads talk, they had to fight tooth and nail to keep it as original as they did

>>98211338
>It's clear you think you are some kind of authority
NAYRT but what is with fa/tg/uys reverting to this horseshit whenever they discover they have no arguments now? It's like some sort of fuckass trend.

No Anon, Anon doesn't think he's some sort of authority. He just has actual arguments and citations from source material and you don't.

>>98212286
Except he kept making stuff up. He keeps saying it has to be a copy of one of those settings, he didn't quote howard talking about his work, but lifted a quote from a story he wrote, not him talking about his own work. Howard was in love with the idea of barbarism, he romanized it. He built his whole world on those concepts.

He kept calling greyhawk of all places s&s because he can only view it in a very narrow lens. He also got DS creation wrong and seems to know very little about it. It very much is a sword and sorcery setting inspired by such

He has a very set in stone view of what sword and sorcery is and It's just not worth me arguing with him over man.