>theater of the mind >also no battle maps (fuck ur positioning)if you cant have a simple battle map im just not gonna play ur game also no a fucking blank canvas isnt gonna work
>>98216465What can't picture the apple in your head?
>>98216479i can retard but nobody will have the same pic as i willalso give me a map so i can play a fucking ranged character or mage with aoe spells faggot
>>98216479Maintaining an array of relative positions is not simple visualization, it's relatively complex spatial reasoning with fuck-all common use in modern society to support its development in the general population.
>>98216559Except, you know. Driving a car.
This is a great way for everyone to be confused and all having different ideas of where things are.
Pffft, there's only two ranges: Far and Melee. They're in charging distance unless I say otherwise.
>>98216559>it's relatively complex spatial reasoningfour pcs and some enemies on a grid is not complex. There are more pieces in a blind chess match. Just don't play with retards.
>>98216566Roads have these things called signs giving clear cues for highly constrained steps in routing, with only your own immediate position needing tracked relative to those cues because you have visual input for all the moment-to-moment driving concerns.>>98216584"Blind" chess still uses objective grid coordinates, usually written down in unambiguous (if not quite standardized) notation. Purist theater of the mind rarely does similar in favor of descriptive freedom.
>>98216652Nothing is stopping the gm from describing in coordinates, and players can take notes if they're a bit slow. I feel like you're deliberately trying to make a problem out of something that's really just a preference.
>>98216734>Nothing is stopping the gm from describing in coordinatesBut do Theater-of-the-Mind DMs actually do that? The "point" is that a lot of TTRPG systems are strongly reliant on absolute positioning, which Theater of the Mind play advocates dictate be sacrificed for descriptive and perceptual freedom, leading to a whole lot of added cognitive load if you want to play the ACTUAL game with any significant accuracy because humans do not have any applicable instincts, making intuitions for it rather highly derived and consequently specialist knowledge.>and players can take notes if they're a bit slowHaving trouble with it is not "a bit slow", it's "did not develop a highly derived comprehensively abstracted skill".>I feel like you're deliberately trying to make a problem out of something that's really just a preference.A "preference" that adds multiple additional complex faculties to the required skillset for proper engagement with game rules. For no reason but the DM getting to wax poetic and dream up pretty pictures. Which they can do anyways with a simple functional playmat and abstractly-marked tokens as purely positional references for all the mechanics that need absolute positions.
Sorry to hear that you have aphantasia. Hope science finds a cure soon so you can be an actual human being.
>>98216479>>98216465>turn 30>ability to visualize starts to decrease>also spent 5 years sleeping 5 hours a night out of wagie rage>sleep normally for 9 months now>visualization / imagination hasn't really improved >coincides with me suddenly collecting a lot more miniatures to use in my DnD games I feel like there is a link here. Like I am using minis as Viagra for my failing imagination. That said I do wish D&D made more use of positioning in some ways. Like huge creatures forcing you to move when they miss, unless they roll really low, because you actually have to jump out of the way of their attack.
>>98216465Good choice. Anything without clear positioning makes for less tactically engaging - and thus less fun - combat
>>98216465You don't play games.
>>98217056>t. projecting
>>98217084>t. nogaming
>>98216465I agree. If the system or the game doesn't have flanking rules, I ain't playin' it.
>>98217056by your definition merely thinking about something constitutes a game so no its literally impossible for him to be nogames.
>>98217160
>>98216479I can do it, but that's not the problem.Planning, calculating distances, and knowing the positions of your enemies is impossible without a map.
>>98216465Nobody invited you to the game, Buttsneeze. Get the fuck out and try not to let that buckshot hit you in your ass as you leave.
>>98216581Based. Based. Based. B a s e d. Anything more is a waste of session time.
>>98216465I'm a big theater of the mind guy, I ran a campaign that was weekly, about 4 hours a session for more than a year completely in theater of the mind. But getting a VTT is a game changer, being able to prep the map before the session is the only thing that was holding me back, now I go crazy in terms of details.
>>98216465Alright. You weren't invited anyways, sperg.
>battlemapsCringe>exploration maps with secretsKino
>>98216566>>98216479Okay bro, go ahead and drive to the supermarket with your eyes closed, relying solely on "theater of the mind" to gauge where your car is and when you need to turn. Let me know how well it works out for you.
>>98216465OP has no internal world.
>>98218005OK, my character gets in his car and drives to the supermarket while staying on the road and obeying all relevant traffic laws.
I can play totm but it feels so chickenshit. Same with ruleslite. I only ever played one game of a ruleslite totm system and it quickly devolved into pure nonsense. It was RISUS if anyone's curious
>>98216734>>98216584>>98216566>>98216566>TOTM is having a literal simplified battle map in your head That’s the most retarded argument I’ve ever heard.>>98216581This at least makes sense, keeps the game simple and fast.You retards will literally REEEEE about a fucking grid and markets to have some basic orientation but will then demand everyone to just imagine the same fucking Grid and waste Girls go knows how much time for the DM to discribe it just so everyone has the same arrangement figured out?Here’s your fucking (you) you absolute spastics
>>98218331they are just the player that stares at his phone until someone calls for initiative. Not retarded, just a shit player.
Quality post OP. These TOTM fags need to be eradicated and sent to some non-visual form of existence where they belong.
>>98216465Look into understanding how spacial deixis works, I promise you will appreciate it.
Watching "theater of the mind" games involve people crossing 500 feet of distance on foot during 1 turn:
>>98216465My friend just pushed a new campaign on us and it's just him trying to larp some wannabe podcast theater of the mind bullshit. If I want to play pretend with just words I'll go join an acting class. I want to play a wargame board game and roll fucking dice and move miniatures across grids. Critical Role fucking killed this hobby.
>>98216566>the literal reason "retard-guiding yellow paint" was inventedLMAO no.
>>98218689Sounds like a chad move to me.
>>98216465While I agree that some form of visual positioning is often necessary for complex combat, I believe that your mind can be used to add "decorations" and the fluff. For example, using a blank battle map the DM laminates and then draws walls, objects, etc. in with expo markers.
>>98216559Imagine having IQ below 60Because that's literally the requirement of crossing the 60 points threshold - being able to imagine up to 5 objects in space from their description.
>>98216465>20min to set up battle>it's just a giant open room with some knee high cover and 4 spread out pillars>battle becomes static for fear of AoO and not wanting to waste actions to get out the way>becomes a dps race standing still where positioning doesn't matter at all and might as well have been a quick theater of mind affairevery time.Attacks of opportunity are gay and actively ruin the game. Take them away and have your game improve instnatly. Thank you, thank you.
>>98219982VVIQ? The threshold fro hyperphantasia? I think you are confused anon.
>>98216465Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
>Theater of the MindYeah nigga you know what theaters have?PROPSand a STAGE
>>98219999>my group is retarded >the rules are to blame
>>98216465This is all a game really needs.
>>98220072>Copium over being clinically retarded intensifes
>>98221722You haven't realized yet that you confused VVIQ with IQ or are you doubling down like a genuine retard in a desperate attempt to save face?
>>98216465Theatre of the mind is not for games like dnd or tacticals, i agree. However, if you are running a CoC campaign ranges arent as important, therefor theatre of the mind easily works.
Im with OP, you need maps for most games. The only game Ive ever played where it worked without a map is Deathwatch and that just because the PCs are so powerful compared to everything else you can just hadwave shit like 15ft.
>>98221560This was eye-opening.
>>98221560Depends on the game system. With would never fly for 4e D&D.
>>982218454e is - and always was - for fags.
>>98221869>tell me you hate player balance without telling me you want martials to be useless
>>98221891I don't really care about that sort of thing. What I care about is my RPG feeling like an RPG and not a tower defence game.
>>98221906Thise feels exist only in your head so that's your fucking problem.
>>98217307This, basically. Combat should ideally be the crunchiest part of any TTRPG, because it's the most involved. You need to consider:>Positioning>Distance/Range>Elevation>Terrain Type/Position>Environmental Objects>Line of sight>Movement>CoverSure, in theory, you could do all this shit in theater of the mind. But really, it's much better to have a battle map with a grid. Combat should also have strict rules for things like Movement, Range, Actions, Damage, Attacking, Defending, Cover, and Visibility. I've seen systems with vague-ass combat rules, and they all suck massive cock. They basically tell the GM to decide what they think is okay for movement, or what they think is within range, and it leads to confusion on both sides of play.This is, of course, in contrast to something like social interaction or exploration which can generally get by with some skill checks with a general guide to difficulty for checks to go off of, because unlike combat those rolls tend to be more flexible and less reliant on precise descriptions (though those might confer bonuses or penalties depending on the system). I don't need a bloated "social combat" system or 30 pages of rules on how to tie a fucking knot.
>>98222328What do you think of >>98221560?
>>98216465>theater of mind with positioningsorry you're bad at games, stay filtered. no one misses you and no one wants you in their games.
>>98216567Never run a game?
>>98216985Hardly.
>>98217307For you.
>>98218331Who told you to imagine a grid?
>>98218689Is that supposed to be bad? lol
>>98218711Not a wargame. You'll play how I tell you to play.
>>98221461Yeah. In your mind. That's why it's called theater of the mind. Dumbfuck.
>>98222328No, not at all. It's the most involved because of all this dumbass crunch you added for no reason. You can just not do that.
The only reason someone would want theater of the mind is because they have no grasp of positioning and tactics.
Because they do, and you don't, you mean.
>>98222629Yeah, if you're a cheating faggot GM. Your players have no information on:>Where the enemies are>What distance they're at>How the room looks>What cover if any they have>Any obstacles they might encounter>Any things in the environment they could use to their advantage>The elevation things are at The less information you give your players to work with in combat, the worse of a GM you are, plain and simple. If the system does not support high levels of player information, then it is a shit system.For example, BESM 3E. Worst TTRPG I've ever run. Makes 5e look like the best TTRPG ever made in comparison.
>>98222948Actually, they have information on all of those things. Never played a decent game, huh? lol
>>98222365Nowhere near enough information. That's a child's scribbles. If my GM showed me that and told me to do combat with that, I'd tell him to stop obscuring information to cheat.
>>98222952How do they have information on all of those things if they don't have access to any of that information at all times?>THEY JUST MAKE IT UP LOLEThat's also dogshit game design. "Collaborative" GMing is a cancer on the hobby, as are mechanics that let players make up whatever they want on the spot - aka cheating.
>>98222959They do have access to it at all times. Who told you otherwise?
>>98222970You have yet to explain how they can have access to something you refuse to share with them.>No map means they don't know where their characters are nor where the enemies are at any time>No measurements for distance or range means they have no idea if their attacks can even hit or if their movement can reach their intended destination>No information about the structure they're doing battle in means they have no information about cover, no information about elevation, no information about line of sight, no information about the terrainIf your only response is a smug:>Well they can just ask me and if they don't write it down it's THEIR problem!You are a bad GM. Yes, TSR/OSR are all bad games.
>>98223134>you refuse to share with them.I never said this.>No map means they don't know where their characters are nor where the enemies are at any timeThis is false.>No measurements for distance or range means they have no idea if their attacks can even hit or if their movement can reach their intended destinationThis is false.>No information about the structure they're doing battle in This is false.>means they have no information about cover, no information about elevation, no information about line of sight, no information about the terrainThis is false.
>>98223134Trvthnuke
I have to agree, having a visual aid makes it much easier to play. I don't want to pay for figures though, I'd much prefer a cheap option.I want these but all the ones I've found for sale involve glue or break easily at the bottom or are loose. They need to be reusable.
>>98222953Why would a GM cheat? They can just make enemies immune to damage, spawn unlimited balors, drip rocks on you, etc.
>>98216465You've never played in a game.
what's the point of playing ttrpgs if it doesn't allow you to buy and paint more minis
>>98226615Fun. Minis aren't fun. Do not reply.
