>Gygaxian diceslop lost>Warhammer/moorkek grimderp lost>Le subversion slop lostWhy he won so hard against any other fantasy trend that tried to fight against him?
>>98235010Your braindead slop bores me.
>>98235010>GigaxianIt is bigger than ever.>Warhammer.It is growing thanks for video games.>Moorcock.Always a self entitled hack, who claim to fame are "introducing" concepts older than he is.>Martin.It is impossible for Martin to write the last 2 books, turns out you need to plan ahead your subversions.
>>98235010I prefer Vancian Vitality to Tolkien Tepidness.
I wonder how Tolkien would feel about the idea that fantasy literature is a competition or even a fight between different kinds of fantasy.
>>98235254He only really disliked "it was a dream all along" kinds of stories.
>>98235254Tell that to the people who started attacking him like Moorcuck.
>>98235312I will, when those people make threads here. Right now I'm telling it to, or asking it from, this thread's OP, though. Of course, other people are allowed to criticize Tolkien all they want, but that still won't make fantasy literature into a competition someone can, will or should win.
>>98235010Traditional games?
>>98235323Nah, Gilgamesh won. Everyone since then has just been copying him in one way or another.
>>98235323If you want to cry like a baby because someone made a thread you don't like just do it. You will be added to the long list of crybabies who cry impotently like the "traditional games" cuckold. Go ahead, we need more laughing stock.
>>98235862That is a funny thing to read in a thread like this. I'm going to give you enough credit to assume that you understand why.
>>98235885Just stop bitching dude. Passive aggressive pansies belong on a shithole being feed other men's sperm.
>>98235010Clark Ashton Chadsmith > Tolkien
>>98235159>It is impossible for Martin to write the last 2 books, turns out you need to plan ahead your subversions.Also turns out that when you write 1000-page books with 10 PoVs and 12 plot threads, it's a lot easier to introduce more complications than it is to resolve them.The fact that he's allergic to traditional genre resolutions probably doesn't help, either. >>98235194There are maybe 100 people on the planet who've read a Vance novel in the 21st century. His only impact is that which was filtered 12 times through other works. >>98235921That's a weirdly specific fetish.
>>98235010When can we expect your reaction video to the Rings of Power, anon?
>>98235010What game?
>>98235978He's just lazy. He only finished winds of winter because his publisher threatened to stop booking him for events entirely, including conventions, unless he actually finished the book. Now that he has HBO monies he doesn't give a fuck because he can just eat cheeseburgers all day until his heart explodes.
>>98235932TRVTH NVKE
>>98235932No.But Dunsany's worldbuilding? Yes.
>>98235978>His only impact is that which was filtered 12 times through other works.D&D magic system came directly from him.>Martin.Yes, big subversions can only be done once or twice in a story, other you end with NuWars
Moorcock's influence is everywhere and only copers and seethers deny it. He has the right to bitch about Tolkien because he's one of the few that came close to him in impact fantasy. You wouldn't have half of slophammer without him.
>>98235978>There are maybe 100 people on the planet who've read a Vance novel in the 21st century. His only impact is that which was filtered 12 times through other worksIt's weird that you'd brag about not being well read. You being a retard isn't the flex you seem to think it is.
>>98236477I respect old Michael, but him being "influential" as much as Tolkien or close to is simply delusional.
>>98236477Despite how much I dislike Moorcuck's stories he has been sidelined because he is not normie enough. All his influence in the popular mainstream normie sphere has been washed out and replaced by more digestible garbage like Game of Thrones.
>>98236477>multiverse came from capeshit.>recycling characters is older than Victorian fiction.>Stormbringer is a copy of Sacnoth.>White Wolf came from Howard.>Howard was so copied that Lester Del Rey, the inventor of Tolkien bootleg, complained about it.>This is to not talk about Lovecraft's bootlegs.>Characters with a inner demons are coming from anime instead.>Dark fantasy was already a thing before he was even born.Did I miss something.
>>98235996>GygaxianD&D, many TTRPG's that came after it, certainly the majority of OSR games>WarhammerWarhammer>MoorcockAlso WarhammerAlso D&D to extent A chunk of Chaosium's games including the literal Elric gameA lot of dark fantasy and anything with alignments or soul sucking swords >Subversionidk
>>98236510>>Characters with a inner demons are coming from anime instead.We're just pretending to be time travelers now are we
>>98236517It developed in parallel, thanks for wuxia heart demons, and we already had Mr. Hyder as an western example.
>>98236528>It developed in parallelBringing up anime is counterproductive because Elric DID have an undeniable impact. Yoshitaka Amano drew him and carried that aesthetic to his other works, Miura cited Eternal Champions as an influence on Berserk, even the Attack on Titan creator cited Elric. Wuxia is an overlooked influence on Japanese works but Moorcock is too.
>>98236618I know that Anime creators read Moorcock, FMA mcs are even named after his works.>the Attack on Titan creator cited Elric.The only thing it really influenced was the ending, even then it was accidentally caused by Eren's voice actor + the fanarts.Otherwise it is G Gundam + a certain VN.
>>98235010Won what?
>>98236698>The only thing it really influenced was the endingWhich is still an influence and showcases how Moorcock is still there in even in the tiniest spaces, like Elric himself inspiring so many frail fair haired twinks through Yoshitaka Amano, which is also the only reason Arslan in Arslan Senki is drawn like that. In the books he's described as a normal Persian prince.
>>98235978>There are maybe 100 people on the planet who've read a Vance novel in the 21st century.shame, because he is really fun to read (If you have a good vocabulary/ good at piecing together vocab you dont know, though that is mostly just a hurdle in the first dying earth book).I think another hurtle is that unlike LotR or Conan where you can keep fantasy elements to a relitive minimum allowing for big picture live action stuff, you would constantly need VFX and ultra specific props, with forests of crystal trees misshapened blob monsters and weird technology. Regardless, there are very few books that had his sense of livelyness and wonder despite the dying earth taking place on a dying planet.
>>98236698SnK ending was inspired by capeshit
>>98236515How did your last session in each go?
>>98236698>FMA mcs are even named after his worksFMA and the Elric series are some of my favorite works, how the fuck did I not notice that
>>98241611Most of works inspired by Moorcock filters a lot of his style; take 40K, for example, it grabbed the chaos gods and wrote an over the top dark comedy.
>>98241676That's how most inspiration works
>>98235010It all goes back to runes.
>>98235932Apples and Oranges. They're both good, Tolkien just got more lucky with popularity. I say that as someone who enjoys the Howard/Lovecraft/Smith circle more.
>>98236698>>98241611Nah the author said in a qa chapter of the manga it wasn't
>>98235159>>98235978As I've said in the past, at the 1995 World Fantasy Con Martin spent hours talking with my wife on how she manages to write big Fantasy series with lots of characters. She said outline, about a 1000 times. Obviously it didn't take. Obviously he was hugely successful anyway.
>>98236510This is like saying Star Wars isn't influential because a lot of what it did was already done first. Flash Gordon, sword and planet space opera, old serials, ww2 and westerns in space. It falls apart because no one can deny everyone was watching Star Wars at the time, just like how if you look at any RPG and fantasy stuff from the 70s and 80s you'll notice everyone was reading Elric and he always gets brought up
