Chibi editionPrevious heresy >>98226481>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N>Titanicus Compendiumshttps://gofile.io/d/qdYzem>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLphttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/3.0_Tactics/General_Tactics『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics>Legions Imperialis Army Builderhttps://legionbuilder.app/>Thread Question : have you homebrewed anything for this edition and played it with others ? how did it go ?
Anyone have any pointers on where to look for lore regarding the Imperial Cult (or whatever the entity that would grow into the Ecclesiarchy was called at the time of the Heresy)? Seems like a compelling place to start for a militia force.
>MKIV next weekOdd to preview something and then release it so quickly. Welp, at least the box will sell like hotcakes to make room for whatever comes next. I could use a spare Contemptor.
>>98244169>TQThe main thing we've hombebrewed are every consul can swap their off hand weapon for a Ranged or pistol weapon, and the no melee conduls can pick up a power or non-heavy legion weapon in addition to their loadout. I want to see if I can ask my group to let the WB burning lore upgrade let my praetors be malefic but frankly I'd suspect they'd say no because my malefic units are already doing well enough without it
How do you keep yourself from just going all Legions? They're all so fun in their own different ways, I keep shifting gears ad I jump from project to project. Right now I'm working on my Luna Wolves display. It won't be very big, I just needed those new 40K Orks to arrive.
>>98244169I homebrewed an entire ruleset not sure if that counts though.
>>98244273By the fact that who wants to paint space marines that many fucking times. Even with upgrade bits snd conversions, I canceled my plans to do ultramarines after my word bearers because I've got marine fatigue. Only so many times I can paint power armor or rhino based vehicles man
>>98244273I like chemical weapons and trench warfare, so Death Guard were just a natural fit. I find a few of the legions insufferably gay and a few others incredibly based, but none of them interest me more than the XIVth.
>>98244273I would find reasons not to do one legion over another like 'the armour isn't in plastic yet' etc. The mark IV dropping out of nowhere has screwed me because I like SoH and TS but settled on WE in mark II for this edition. I may just have to get the battlegroup twice even though I'd be years out of completing either force.
>>98244274What's it like, anon?Is this a 'Get Shit Done' project?
>>98244286What legions do you find gay and why?
>>98244187Siege of Terra novels show the beginnings of how Euphrati Keeler started the imperial cult. The plotline is meh since so many authors were handling it to varying degrees of competence.
>>98244402Thanks, I’ll see what I can dig up without actually buying anything from BL.
>>98239938Hear hear
>>98244417
>>98244417I really should start recasting my BaC box.
>>98244369Space Wolves, Salamaders, Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors. I will not elaborate.
>>98244417But the thallax kit is still around?
>>98244295I've played about 20 games with the draft version of the rule-set with no further additional changes between games and we've enjoyed it. To summarise it there's a few simplifications and a few additions. Probably the biggest 'addition' is that both sides shoot in every shooting phase but it is ordered by a mechanic called momentum which is like a modifier to static initiative, so if your unit didn't move in its movement phase it has a +1 to the order in which it shoots. Momentum also works in the assault phase so charging gives you +1 to the order of combat etc. Otherwise the game is pretty close to 4th-7th ed.In terms of progress the rules are finalized and I'm about 40 pages into writing up the rulebook proper, pic related so you know I'm not bullshitting. Generally speaking I don't intend to change many unit profiles they work as is but the army building will change. Basically you'll get one profile for a legionary and the upgrades will determine what they are fielded as, with characters/HQs allowing you access to higher tiers of upgrades for a unit. It'll be the same with tanks as well and even the officers will have different tiers of upgrades. There'll also be new legion rules since quite a few will work around the momentum mechanic, and for non legions too.
New reveals, wonder what 30k is getting
>>98244456Hopefully a destroyer kit. Or legion-specific MkII/III upgrades.
>>98244456solar auxilia superheavy ? would be thematic with the thallarn second partfinally painted this squad, only took me 3 months
>>9824445628mm ascalon.
>>98244456The guys at my club who know people at gw think its some Mech stuff because james has bee wanting to realse more robots, they are right like 70% so not like a guarantee
>>98244512right, could be the arlatax and plastic vorax
>>98244480Don’t think we’re getting anything legion specific for a while, at least not in plastic. Way too many things to transition from resin before that happens. Could see a destroyer kit, maybe a seekers/recon package.
>>98244417Ngl I didn’t like the old mkIV kit. They were small even at the time of release, and look positively midget sized next to modern warhammer models. The new ones seem like a faithful enough upscale, barring lack of phaeton jump packs.I do however miss the old mkIII kit and the BA tactical box.
>>98244495>one (1) hellstorm template>explodes (2+)>10" moveno>>98244456new knight
>>98244549I will forever have a grudge against the batc box for retconning the snoot and crotch flap.
>>98244560Kek
>>98244456Destroyers, bikes or that one mechanicus jetpack robot they got in ligma
>>98244456Knowing GW it's gonna be a huge nothing burger.
>>98244549how were the old mkiv small compared to old mkIII and BA tac box?
>>98244456will they fuck up terminators again.
>>98244594with so many games on the preview yeah it's probably going to be a kit or two and a journal
>>98244661Seeing how they barely changed mk4 I'm optimistic about tartaros. And by that I mean optimistic about how bad they will be.
>>98244661Guaranteed. New tartaros is gonna look like absolute shit, and will only come with lightning claws as a melee option.
>>98244655Oh they were only a hair shorter, but it became pretty noticeable in a bad way once GW scalecrept everything else.
>>98244274>>98244455How did you make your homebrew look official?I love it.Did you download templates I never could find? Still got them to share with us please?
>>98244655The same way tartaros were small compared to even the mkiii in the same box.
>>98244924This has to be bait.
>>98244274Can I get a download?
>pick Death Guard—the terminator heaviest legion>just in time for GW to shit all over Cataphractii and probably Tartaros soonI can always make a power armor human wave cope list I guess
>>98244942nah, all the sculpts in those two games were undersized; they were right compared to each other, but sort of 95% of what they should have been compared to the rest of 40k to save weight on the box and get more models in
>>98244977I don't know why you guys are crying about Cata looking like the old-ass Crimson Paladins always havefuck they've got more meat on them than the resin Abby does
>>98244985I have no argument to counter you with. I’m just complaining to complain I guess.
>>98244985>I don't get why people are upset about these garbage models that look similar to these other garbage models that people were also upset aboutAnon, you might be retarded.
>>98244655
>>98244456Plastic sabres maybe? Or the morbus.
>>98244456Khan on a bike.
>>98244456Jetpack upgrade sprue and new Tartaros kit
>>98244169I am working on a giant document that is based on 1.0. It will tweak minor things from the main rules, tweak the legions to better line them up while keeping flavor, tweak non marine armies to be less oppressive, add in units introduced from later editions, add in cityfight, planetstrike, old school raid, old school kill team, combat patrol, crusade rules, campaign rules and tweaked ZM rules. It will also have tweaked rules for xenos armies for your setting during the Great Crusade. I’m gonna blow the door wide open boys. It’s gonna be huge.
Started making battlefield assets for my Sons of Horus. This captured Ultramarine is a frag minefield
>>98244771I cannot see it to be honest
>>98245162At first I thought this was some sort of possessed Space Marine that had been shackled in place, and I think that's cooler than a captured Marine being turned into an IED.
>>98245162
>>98245162it makes no sense for him to be in his armour, he could probably survive the explosion
>>98245177Reusable.
>>98245141Post it here I'm interested
>>98245177That's why you can use it again on a 4+
>>98244980what two games? they seem to be in scale with the old manlet 40k range, the space marines and terminators, idk what you're on about
>>98244977So get recasts, ebay rescues or try to find second hands new on sprue. I swear, you faggot will find any excuse not to do the project
>>98245162thats pretty awesome
>>98245181>>98245183He could probably just rip up those chains too and give SoH a bearhug.
>>98244169I painted some tiny Typhons >>98245162That's metal. Nice creativity!
>>98245182Gonna have to give me time. I try to get like 5-10 pages done a day. It’s a lot of work and it sucks because I can be working on models. But this document will live forever and I want to share it with you guys. I don’t even know how to upload documents that have a file size that large. I’m computer retarded.
>>98245205
I made a banner crossbar out of paperclips, getting close to finishing my HQ guy, is the paperclip thick enough that if I put an ornament on top it looks alright, or is it too thin?
>>98245201This anon's right. Break his backpack, so his armour acts as an extra restraint and denies him its extra strength.
>>98244456Reasonable hopes would be bikes, land speeders or Saux Shadowsword. Unlikely dream would be Legion Basilisk/Medusa, mkiv upgrades or IW characters
>>98245205>>98245209These minis make me wish that Imperialis wasn't a bad game.
>>98245212I like this idea, its pragmatic
>>98245212Old marines used to have the power connector details on the back under the power pack, but the nu-marks don't have that any more. It's depressing really, how much has been lost...
>>98245197Calm down, big guy. We’re talking about toy soldiers here.
>>98245141Thanks macca.
>>98245252Some new kits still have it. It's weird that it's one design that looks like is had not changed since introduced. Two holes up top, a lug on the bottom. Makes sense in world to make the connection universal, so you can swap any pack on the suit.
>>98245230I could go on for a while about LI's rules. Weirdly convoluted in areas it shouldn't be and crazy unbaked in others. Really hope for a refresh but I'm not holding my breath.If you read the legion specific traits, you don't even need to play the game to recognize which are SSS-tier busted and which are obviously useless.
>>98245230You can use them for epic armageddon, there have been experimental HH armylists as far back as Betrayal. I think with the years they have only gotten more balanced and complete.
>>98244803The templates are all on here:https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1bSGqU5AN1K-u_e0y97SxhMoM3BnN8xS8Font is warnock pro, I might work harder on the textures but it's early days>>98244972it's not finished yet so would be little point, especially as some page layouts are in flux and text needs sorting out but I'll put it up as soon as it's finished, definitely before the end of summer. The supplement and faction stuff will take longer though.
>>98245208No worries take your time
This is gonna sound corny as hell, but I've had one of the roughest days in the last ten years and I have to say that I appreciate each and every one of you.
>>98245258Unironically I used to have a warmer opinion of that guy. But he didn’t follow through with what he said and it kind of pissed me off. So I decided to do it myself.
>>98245252the mkii tank crew guy got it I think
>>98245278I appreciate you too anon, tell those you care about that you love them.
>>98245280What did he not follow through with? Was he doing a fan edition?
>>98245278Same, you are always welcome here frend
>>9824526640k has the squad connector, HH has the pill connector.Yes, the 40k EC have the HH numk6 style powerpack with a 40k style square connector.
>>98245280Good luck anon, homebrewing is one of the most fulfilling part of wargaming in my opinion.>>98245291Macca said that he would make a sort of HH 1.5 homebrew but after showing the equivalent of notes on a napkin afaik he dipped.
>>98245278It's great to have a place where you can always have a honest conversation about our favourite plastic toy soldiers. It has certainly helped me through a lot of very rough years.
>>98245278Pet died?
>>98245278Appreciate you as well Anon. I hope whatever troubles you are experiencing lessen and that their pain fades with time.
>>98245296I thought we were talking about the moulded in little triangle of plugs that serves no other function than add a little detail, rather than the physical peg that is used to attach the pack to the back.
The new MkIV stuff is tempting me to start a heresy army.Is it possible to make a Blood Angel jump spam force to fly up the table and mug people?
>>98245424Definitely. Might need two squads of despoilers to do the scoring though. But a fast melee army jumping down their throat is something most HH players don't know how to deal with lmao.
Are the MK3 vambraces supposed to fit one particular way to the heavy weapon arms or do we have to freestyle it?
>>98245459you gotta freestyle it, as someone who did a lot of MK3 upgrades. Use one of your bolter guys for reference
got some new HH RPG news from C7 >The Horus Heresy RPG will focus on the Atartes legions and their betrayal. Other factions will be probably introduced later in supplements.>There will be two starting books - one for the Loyalist Legions and one for the Traitor Legions. The books can be mixed together, allowing you to play a loyalist from a Traitor Legion or a traitor from a Loyalist Legion.>The system will be mostly based on The Old World RPG.>The system puts a big focus on highlighting the tragedy of the betrayal.>A damage system will focus on cinematic moments, giving you some dramatic storytelling opportunities tied with mechanical effects. There will be some kind of table of damage progression where at beginning when you take damage, your character won't be actually getting hurt, but your armour will be getting damaged instead and only then will it slowly progress to physical injuries. [Edit: The example given was: The first time you take damage, your helmet's visor cracks and breaks, the next time you get hit in the servomechanisms of your power armour making it more difficult to move around. The next hit, for example, destroys your armour's heat exchange system and you have ten rounds before you blow up. And then the next damage does the classic physical injuries.]
>>98244560I think the nu-mk4 look nice for the most part, but it's a shame they got rid of the bonding studs.
>>98245483>The system will be mostly based on The Old World RPG.Is this a good or bad thing? I've only played Maledictum and W&G
>>98245567>Is this a good or bad thing?Ive heard its okay, but it doesent seem to have much point to it because WHFRP exists
>>98244448These are all kino as fuck kys
>>98244448Valid picks for loyalists. Shit takes for traitor legions.
>>98245177Shrapnel cloud fren, shrapnel cloud....
>>98245444Nice, thanks.
>>98245567it's a D10 system it should be fine for a high-powered game that HH should be
>>98245278It’s always darkest before the dawn. Stand up.
>>98244448Fuck yourself
Can I trust wartablegames.me?
>>98245598>>98245717I wonder if they'll do a Horus Heresy RPG intro box like they did for their other games.
>>98245802I've ordered from them plenty of times and they've always come through, though I will say the last order I made took a while (week and a half to two weeks) to ship out compared to previous ones.Anyways, have some chinkcast world eaters.
>>98245802I have had no issues with wartablegames, looking at their reviews some of their casts arent amazing, but having not ordered any of the bad ones the stuff I got has been generally quite good.The biggest issues have been some moldlines and thin parts on cloth or whatever.
>>98245802They're legit, I've ordered from them many times and I've never had any issues. Quality was always decent to good. Lately I've switched to AWG because they let you order individual bits and I much prefer that. Prices and quality are basically identical.
>>98245922Given all the similarities im like 99% sure its the same guys, and AWG is just their "bits division". Buying full kits from AWG is generally pricier, but thats about it.
>>98245922Link please?
>>98245970use google and your brain
>>98245922Does AWG sell warhound bits? I need a carapace for one, the one that came with my OG legit one was super warped and is now snapped pretty bad from when I tried to straighten it out....
Hear me out:
>>98245994Damn that's a big piece of resin
>>98245989Yes. But its not super granular. The shop options are basically "weapons, body"Although for something of that size, just message them about it if you need just one specific part. Im sure you can cut a deal with them.
>>98245994
>>98245943Yes there's a slight price difference but I almost always want bits rather than full kits so I'm saving money overall (especially when compared to buying GW resin upgrades). And yeah I've also suspected they're two different divisions of the same company.>>98245970Nice try James.
>>98245994I can honestly kinda see the vision, but thats just too big. Like 30% scaled down? That could work, you would maybe want it tilted up like an artillery cannon, some sort of superheavy plasma bombard. Also you want to extend the tank backwards, the tracks shouldnt end so far before the gun.>>98246017Yea, I mostly just use the main site when I need either "a full vehicle" or "a bunch of the same part" (i,e a set of heads/shoulderpads).
>>98245970https://www.wartablegames.me/https://www.alex-wargames1.com/Fuck the police
>>98245994>>98246015I am forgotten
>>98245600You have shit taste, I’m afraid it’s icurable.>>98245619AL and IW are the lamest traitors by a huge margin.>>98245725Sorry your legion is gay and retarded
>>98245162Human bomb! A mini from the Rogue trader era. This cannbe astartes bomb
>>98246170Never forgotten, just OOP, Omega Mac.
>>98245994kino, legit or recast ?
>>98246170I need an stl upgrade kit to make the back fully enclosed.I need perfect stl 1:1 remakes of the forgeworld models. Especially the titans and their variants.
>>98245275Thank you for the templates anon!I’m chumming so hard right now.I’m gonna make the worst homebrew ever but it will be lovable because the presentation is serviceable.
>>98246281recast from >>98245802this is #2 in my ordinatus series
>>98244480PLEASE GOD LET THERE BE LEGION-SPECIFIC MKII/MKIII UPGRADES.
>Stores still sell the HH2.0 RulebookI thought GW would have bitched about that
>>98246429If nobody complains about it to GW they don't care. There used to be a local toy shop that sold miniatures and rulebooks from every single edition.
>>98246247>>98246170I have a recast of this baby on order, hoping she ships here soon....didnt even know they had made one til I found the recast of it.
>>98246448>If nobody complains about it to GW they don't care.Neat, I was under the impression that GW actively acts against those who push old editions.
>>98246458Well, GW will do something actively if they find out. But there isn't some private detective firm hired by GW hunting for stores that still sell old stuff.
>>98246486I see. Thanks for the info anon.
If I prime a mini with gunmetal and paint purple over that, will the purple come out solid and opaque, or will it take on a metallic hue? I want to paint Emperor's Children because they're kino but I've never painted over a metallic base coat.Any info would be appreciated, thanks.
>>98245802Yes, have had several orders from them, all pretty good. Have had some whiffs on the older stuff like the OG auxillia infantry, but nothing so bad. My understanding is that anything that was originally plastic is more prone to error. Newer stuff has been immaculate, the Corswain I got is exact same quality as FW. Have ordered older upgrade packs and shoulders/heads that have all been perfect. I have OG Angron and an Atrapos coming in a couple of weeks, will report back because I've never ordered bigger minis from them before.
>>98246504Depends on the type of paint the purple is. If it is regular acrylic paint it will be solid and opaque, except maybe if you do a very thin layer.
>>98246526Noted, thanks.
>>98246504I really like this guy's stuff and this guide in particular, have chincast Saul Tarvitz in the mail to test it out onhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AedlxUdVmOM
>>98245802Oh yeah I also bought my titan from them
>>98246533Holy crap that looks REALLY good. Much better than what I had planned. I might have to adopt this method too!
>>98246458Do they? What, would they refuse to sell to shops that are selling remaining HH2 books? Because that sounds stupid. My understanding is that the second its shipped to a 3rd party its entirely beyond their caring.
>>982444568MM BOYS WE ARE BACKGotta be plastic armigers/moirax
>>98246757>8MM BOYSMICRO PENIS GANG REPRESENT!
>>98246757I guess third time's the charm?
>>98246224>IWMost realistic villains of the traitor legions, one of the few that didn't turn traitor cause of magical bullshit or cartoon logic. >ALcool armor and plays the most unique out of all legions.
>>98246796>>98246834Stay salty. We still have plastic Mastodons and you don't.
>>98246934>Funny jokes about 8mm>Feels personally attackedDidn't know Ligma fags were this insecure.
>>98244456My bet is its just a 20 man box of Mk4 tacticals and nothing else.
>>98246934these are the worst vehicles GW have ever designed and i am including shartmaris models in this
>>98246954Wow, 28mm fans love dishing it out but can't take it. >>98246968Nah they're great. Fun to use in LI too, just disgorging a bunch of terminators kicks ass. If we get breachers in this next reveal I bet they'll be useful for that too.
>>98246959>Huge preview event!>Show something for HH that's already been revealedThe funny thing is this has actually happened before.
>>98244456Can we get SA baneblades and shadowswords we've had images of for the past three years now?
>>98247143>non space marine army in the space marines game thinks they deserve anythingknow your place, npc
>>98247203I'm all for James to waste money producing models they have no intention of releasing.
I like the centurion backpack.Not sure what the lore behind it is but I just like it.By chance has some autist recreated it in stl form so I can download it?
>>98245802They're 90% of the quality for 25% of the cost. I've ordered several, mostly OOP plastic kits and some HH resin, and like anon said most of the errors are in the plastic, but most of those are minor things that won't be noticeable once painted and on the tabletop. Annoying if you have detail autism like me though. Free shipping over $20 so just order a small amount and see how you like it.
>>98247143Hopefully plastic Stormhammer first.
>>98246869>muh totally realistic motiveYou somehow made them seem lamer>cool armorNo, not really, but that’s subjective. I just don’t like em.
>>98247293It's so bloated and fat
>>98247335Minor errors can simply be painted up with weathering as battle damage.
>>98247293it's not quite the same, but loggyk made a file for the mk3 version, like what fafnir rann has, if you can find it.
>>98247489Thanks!Would love some of these space marine backpacks.If I can find them of course.The piracy app is now without a doubt known and purges are common.Not sure where to move now. Don’t know any dark web or deep web spots.Not that I want to get involved with those parts.
Is there a community scanning tortuga bay’s space marine stuff?I get that he is a smaller creator so it might hurt but because of current events scanning and archiving his resins is basically evacuating scrolls out of the library of Alexandria.Also tortuga’s instagram isn’t showing anything. Did he get banned or just keeping it private for personal reasons?
>>98247529Their insta is just on private. What current events? I swear I've seen people printing tortuga so it exists, I highly recommend throwing them a buck thought.
>>98247335def NOT free shipping, I have to pay around $40ish for shipping to US on a $200+ order, but at least it comes in a like a week or two that way through fedex.
>>98247522"piracy app"....?QRD fren?
>>98247553>What current eventsThey're in Ukraine >I swear I've seen people printing tortuga so it existsThey did a kickstarter campaign or patreon for some STLs IIRC
>>98247553I do plan to throw a lot of money and I have.I had a thunder warriors phase and bought a good number of stormsoldiers.You can now point and laugh at me.But like I said above I want to get some models I feel would be least likely be archived as stl scans or ai generated recreations.>>98247608GW is aware of it as some channels get copyright struck down so it is hard to really not explain it but basically the name is a mixture of telephones and graham crackers.>>98247610Do you have these stls by chance if they’re official releases?
>TQMe and my buddies are big fans of kitbashing weird units and throwing them at each other. Our latest were my Labrys-Pattern Experimental Weapons Tank, picrel, facing an Asterius Knight with a Hades drill on one arm and a giant melta on the other.We've all known each other since college though so we trust each other to be reasonable, I don't see how you could convince a rando to play against a possessed saturnine dread or some of the other weird beasts I've made.
My tacs have suffered greatly under the phospex artillery of those infidel dogs Death Guard, I wanted to make a silly doodle about it.
>>98247293https://gofile.io/d/GBmvKG
>>98247529>evacuating scrolls out of the library of Alexandria>fatuga
>>98245278Yay
>>98247963Thanks!Does the file include an unsupported version or are the supports able to be deleted in blender like anvil industry’s multi shell function?
>>98245808C7 have done it for all their other Warhammer RPG systems so I don't see them stopping with HH
>>98248069includes unsupported and even clean versions (without fist icons)
>>98244456You already know.
I like mechanicum because they're religious fanatics, they're a unique culture in the imperium and they look cool.I bought the Mechanicum Skitarii Battlegroup as an impulse buy because it seems OOP but now I'm worried that this is only usable in a skitarii force?
>>98248106shit lords?
>>98248142Skitarii are a mini-army, but don't need to adhere to the points allocation limit for allies if the Mechanicum is your main army.
>>98245994I'm feeling it
>>98248142you can also use the vultarax in a Cybernetica detachment, all you need is at least one semi-impressive toastercloak to be your Magos to get a detachment with a Fast Attack slot in (or Logistical Benefit one in, but that's probably wasteful for an allied force of two models)the skitarii are yeah just skitarii, but you can ally them in easily; the advantage f taking the vultarax with them is you can give it Vanguard or whatever by choosing the different Skitarii trait you want, otherwise it's identical with the Cybernetica version (except that, if you can find a Prime Fast Attack slot for the Cybernetica version, you can make it a Paragon of Metal and contest objectives with it)
>>98248169TROO SCALE?
>>98248178>>98248160Well which kind of detachment should I aim for initially? I'd like to build a proper force, not just the most optimal 1-2 units maxed out
>>98248169Takyon
>>98248169I KNOW THAT'S YOU ROB LIEFELD
>>98244456A decently modular cataphractii centurion with weapon options and maybe some bits for some consul options would be A++
>>98248579Needs more pouches for that desu
>>98247608Telegram, its a channel based social media app popular in places like russia. Its like a mix of whatsapp and discord.
>>98247837I mean, this does genuinely seem reasonable in concept.The falchion (underpowered as it is) has a neutron wave laser, the porphyron has two of those. The variant porphyron has two of these conversion beam cannons. So the tank having one seems entirely justified.
>>98246869>one of the few that didn't turn traitor cause of magical bullshit or cartoon logicBasically none of the traitor legions turned "because of chaos" - its basically just the WE. The NL turned because theyre the NL, the imperiums pet war crimes division come to bite peoples faces off because thats what they doThe EC, DG and SOH joined up because horus said so. Horus was corrupted, but on the "legion level" it was simply militant pride and a belief that they should rule. Its basically the same as with the IW. The WE just wanted revenge against the world, Angron was on the warpath and this sort of outcome was inevitable for them anyways.The AL are the AL and the longer BL writes them the closer they go to "actually they never even turned traitor!", but in original concept they were simply siding with the guy they thought would win/playing the long game.The TS had their side picked for them by Russ.
>>98248667Would you like a blowjob and caviar with that?Its cumboat diaz, were going to get another generic IF character no one cares about and maybe another journal (contains rules for another rhino chassis conversion and a kratos with the turret replaced by the araknae)
>>98248878What everybody seems to forget is that in older lore the AL also had youngest brother energy. They sided with Horus because they also wanted to prove their mettle against other astartes.
Its fucked up that "grenade launchers" arent a standalone weapon. You have combi-grenades, but thats it. Theres no special weapon option to take them. Isnt that weird? Its an iconic and basic infantry special weapon, it fits with the tone and time period, and it wouldnt be particularly OP either.
>>98248896They were a thing in the older editions for militia and iirc SA, did they remove them?
>>98248896We used to be a proper wargame.
>>98248896Im thinking of something like this (added to the legion special weapons menu)Astartes Grenade Launcher +5ppmKrak Grenade: R24", FP1, S6, AP4, D2Frag Grenade: R24", FP1, S3, Ap5, D1, 3" blastChem Grenade*: R18", FP1, S5, AP4, D1, Poison(2+), Pinning(2), Phage(T)*If a siege breaker is present in the army, any unit may upgrade its grenade launchers to possess Chem Grenades for +5ppm. (the last option is like a baby version of the Athanax Phosphex Cannister launcher the Excindio has, just shorter range, less S, no blast/barrage and worse pinning)>>98248910Militia might still have them, but marines dont and that bothers me.
>>98248920Unrelated: But I like the idea of a "heavy plasma gun". Not a plasma cannon, "heavy plasma gun". Normal: R30", FP2, S7, Ap4, D1, Breaching(5+), Heavy(D)Overload:R30", FP2, S8, Ap4, D2, Breaching(4+), Heavy(D), Overload(2)
>>98248940Plasma cannons didn't use to exist, they were all heavy plasma guns the same way there were no bolt cannons, only heavy bolt guns. In 3e they swapped all heavy plasma guns into plasma cannons.
>>98248944I figured. The grenade launcher also looks like what we would now call the missile launcher. But its a cool name and evokes a certain sort of weapon (imo) which could be interesting to bring back.
Pwettyhttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/jomldqhy/warhammer-studio-goes-super-heavy-for-an-age-of-darkness-tank-war/
>>98248953I don't understand why they don't let 'Eavy Metal paint heresy models like this instead of their awful normal style.
>>98248964I assume because their house style is better suited for the storefront.
>>98248964They purposefully paint like shit so that little timmy (and iron warriors players) don't get upset when their slopped on paintjob looks worse than the pictures
>>98248964A part of it would probably be "speed". They presumably have a lot of models to get through. But its also a style intended to really pick out and emphasize all the details on a model.
>>98248953I guess I'll get a glaive for my WE armour company.
>>98248910>>98248896they're still in for militia and Solar Aux have them mounted on sentinelsthere's problems with them the style of grenade launcher anon is thinking of is almost always a vehicle mount or tripod mount weapon; there are weapons like the milkor but they have basically 0 utility that an rpg or hand grenades doesn't also have and are mostly out of movies (they entered 40k in reference to Predator and Terminator 2, both of which I think use prop weapons built out of pyrotechnic launchers, which are basically tripod mounts, because it's easier to build around those than to adapt the real weapons or work with them on set); the real weapons are both heavy (lightweight is a relative term), slow-firing (rapid-firing is a relative term) and bulky (so awkward to handle) because of the dumb drum bean guns and other riot control shit can fire the same size rounds and are easier to handle, but they're not movie-iconic, so they're not as good for anon's purposes because it's basically just a weird looking carbine; rpgs have become "missile launchers" in 40k and gained the properties of missiles (as opposed to rockets)combi-grenade is fine for marines, the bolter is already more or less firing rounds with the same kind of power as most fired grenades, everything is scaled weirdly to differentiate it from everything else in rules, an actual bolter should be scything down militia with a single burst etc etc
>>98249028>Picks the melee legion>Builds a tank company for it
>>98249037A combi-grenade launcher is basically a twin-linked bolter :^)
>>98249037Just add something like this. If its worth having as a combi weapon surely its worth having as a normal weapon (as seen with every other combi weapon having a standalone variant). >>98249045Evidently not, they actually have very different profiles and uses.
>>98249038Let me guess, every white scar rides a bike and every RG marine is a sniper.
>>98249052
>>98249047And its not even like "marines dont use grenade launchers", they do, we see plenty of specialist units with variants of them (grave wardens, dawnbreakers, angels tears...). Which makes the absence of the normal variant all the more perplexing.
>>98249058Or not. Specialist variants of grenade launchers provide utility that regular grenade launchers don't, and in the lore a basic grenade launcher is pretty much a worse heavy bolter.
>>98249068>Specialist variants of grenade launchers provide utility that regular grenade launchers don'tWhat utility does a grave warden grenade launcher provide that a normal one doesent? Sure they have their fancy poison rounds alt-fire, but its fundamentally just "a grenade launcher" with the selling point being the regular old krack shotsditto for dawnbreakers, they literally just have small grenade launchers wrist mounted. Literally just the vanilla profiles you would expect. >and in the lore a basic grenade launcher is pretty much a worse heavy bolter.But it isnt, we see how it isnt. Bolters are not "grenade launchers", as much as redditors like to meme them such. A heavy bolter is also just an entirely different class of weaponry to "a grenade launcher". You may as well argue people shouldnt be using volkite chargers or calivers(?) - the 30" 2 shot gun - because heavy bolters are better.
>>98249038Ferrus Manus praised the WE as being one of the legions that's among the best in armoured warfare. Not that you would know since you are a secondary.
>>98248169Brainiest World Eater
>>98248953>demolisher cannon’s firing arc goes directly through the cannon barrels above it Bravo, james
>>98249276the dem cannons off centered though, isnt it? Like on the baneblade?
>>98249184And he’s dead. How smart was he?
>>98249301Its also normally "furher in". Im pretty sure that guy just built it weird.
>>98249309I'm certain, even headless, he's smarter than you.
>>98249038Doing something different from the most basic way to run a legion is kino
>>98249323I want to do an entire unit of WEs that are using their bolters as clubs, like they all ran out of ammo and the nails have taken them so hard that they have reverted to pure caveman mode.
>>98249316Well his brain was intact, so probably.
>>98249323>stealth WE>footslogging human wave WS>melee-oriented IH>rhino rush DGWhat else?
>>98249354Competent NL
>>98249354>>stealth WEThat's funny because the armour company is for epicAU and I'm also planning to make a WE recon company at 28mm to go with my mech and militia.
>>98249369Aren’t NL the only legion to have been canonically btfo by the solar auxilia?>>98249372>infiltrating enemy territory>Borgha is taken by the nails and starts shrieking, terrifying the sentries but also alerting themExcellent
>>98249354Interesting IF
>>98249354Straight IW
>>98249354>footslogging human wave WSThats just the sagyar-mazan (or however its spelled) ROW from 2e. They also have things like the eagles talons or however theyre called (the LC scouts). >>melee-oriented IHGorgons and morlocks are what exactly? Theyre only "the gunline army" because IH players are faggots, same with IF, the legions arent averse the melee, the players are. >>rhino rush DGIm pretty sure thats literally a strategy they pioneered and were very well practiced in.
>>98249382It's meant to be part of the bloody 13th so they are closer to pathfinders within the first line of an assault rather than sneaky operators.
>>98249414The DG were primarily an infantry force.
>>98249426Didn't they use mass formations of predators armed with chem flamers and vindicators, and large formations of whirlwinds who chem bombed enemy emplacments and cities?
>>98249426And dont you generally need at LEAST rhinos to get infantry from point A to B in any quick amount of time?
>>98249426Every legion is primarily an infantry force. The DG had less armor (actual armor, not rhinos) post heresy because their armor was mostly terran vets who stayed loyal. This has nothing to do with "they use rhinos", a thing that every legion did frequently (just like drop pods). The rhino rush is borderline the DEFAULT marine strategy.
>>98249475DG were crazy. They would slow walk to enemy lines. Warhounds, pre Angron, would do the same to humans. Would give a time and would just stand, there waiting for surrender. And only after you didn't they would go all holy paladin on your ass.
>>98249491Plus a lot of their armour was deploy on terra and they never retrived it. EC and WE were so crazy that they didn't even think much about deploying their whole armor (or artilery in case of WE), which left them with an oddly large number of tanks. IW pulled their stuff back. NL didn't have much anything left after what the DA did to them. SoH were devastated too, but they were down on everything, tanks, soldiers , transports etc.
>>98249463>can arm a predator with heavy alchem flamers and a combi-alchem>can’t give it a chemcinerator cannon for the main weaponBullshit
>>98249551Anon you are mixing up game rules with lore. Do you think marine armour forces were operating in groups of 2 type of tank per "detachment" ? Or that there were no pretors operating from tanks
>>98249559I am literally talking about rules. I want to give a predator an giant alchem flamer as its main armament
>>98249569Will be introduced in DG journal part 3, that'll be 30 buckeroos
>>98249579>$10 from wartableHeh
>>98249354I’m waiting on plastic outriders so I can do biker Night Lords (Jadhek Clanlords from 2nd). I’ve never seen an army in the wild so I think it counts
>>98248953I’m changing the glaive rules back to a beam for my rewrite of HH rules. Gun is garbage and a former shadow of what once was.
>>98249786The beam was also bad. What the glaive needs is "chain -deflag", when it causes wounds the deflag hits not just the target but all enemies within 6/12"
why did bligh have such a hardon for volkite? serpentas and culverins are just retardedly broken
>>98249868Because death rays are cool
>>98249909fair enough
>>98249841Is the glaive more of an anti-infantry house in the lore or more anti-vehicular? The fluff is surprisingly light.
>>98250418Its a giant volkite gun, it has always been anti-infantry. Which is the issue, there is basically a finite limit to how good "anti-infantry" weapons can get because infantry caps out in size and durability at like "20 dudes".(sure, terminators and custodes are technically infantry, but no one means those and those were never the target fior the glaive)Attempts to fix this have the risk of creating the opposite issue, where you suddenly have a vehicle that removes 1000pts of marines off the table in one shot. Which is also bad.
>>98249868>serpentas and culverins are just retardedly brokenThey arent,.
>>98250471Would it be offensive to have the glaive shoot its number of shots but also have breaching 6+ or 5+? How would that work with deflagrate? That way it threatens most infantry, including 2+ save units on occasion?
Does anyone have the screenshot of Magnus saying he was wrong? Thanks!
>>98250544the carronade kills any 2+ 2W marine on 5/9 (better than 1/2), any 2+/5++ 10/27 (better than 1/3), any 2+/4++ 5/18 (better than 1/4)it is 1/9 to pen AV13 or glance AV14 (which with 12 shots can leave even a spartan sitting around shitting its pants while it loses several hull points to dupe results)for reference, 1/9 is both the bolter vs MEQ kill chance and the minimum chance of losing on any roll at craps, the game that makes casinos lots of money but idiots still keep playing
>>98250687Is this with theoretical breaching 6+ or just as it is right now?
>>98249354Terminator (non deliverer) Raven GuardDestroyer Thousand SonsAirborne IWArtillery WB
>>98250544That does nothing to change the actual issue with the gun. Its still gross overkill vs the stuff its good against and still bad against everything else, which as basically all of the capabilities of a 600pts superheavy isnt great. >how would it work with deflagdepends on the edition iirc, but in 3e it wouldnt, deflag is just set strength ap- no rules hits. The falchion can work as a "single issue tank" (it doesent, but it COULD if the neutron wave battery was any good) because the single issue it solves is "super expensive big thing", a thing that is both fairly had to deal with and also gets you big returns in one shot.The glaive is a single issue tank, but that issue is 3+ save infantry, a thing that a plethora of other things deal with and which - when you get to the "big tanks" stage of the game is actually very easy to deal with. Predators put out Ap3 large blasts for 130pts.
>>98250901i wouldn't regard large artillery contingents as anything out of line with word bearer doctrine in my reading at leastwould be more that depicting such a thing in fuller prominence would be very novelcouple barebones tactical squads representing some reserve troops on guard shrouding a basilisk nest with a siege breaker or armistos directing the guns maybe?some jump pack nerds held away in deployment on their romp forward passing through to helpidk
>>98250927My fix? While its maybe a bit much, just make the gun Ap2. S7 Ap2 2D 12 shots. Fuck it, let custodes players and terminator blobs cry salty tears.
>>98250941I’m the anon doing the HH rework and I literally just thought the same thing just now. Remove beam keep the same number of shots and just make it AP 2. Otherwise if that’s a bit much, then could try making it breach 5+ AP 3. I will change the deflag rules to match the breach rolls. So at 5+ for example you have a strength 8 AP 2 with deflag of AP if it wounds.
>>98250927While I tweak the glaive what is your issue with the falchion?
>>98251021Its just not very good at its job, to the point where the fellblade is comparable at tank killing while also being many times superior into everything else. Compared to either the shadowsword or the knight porphyron its just underwhelming in its damage output for the cost, which for a vehicle designed to do one thing and one thing only is not great.
Battle cannon or melta for a Kratos, bros? The melta demolishes vehicles, but the battle cannon has the ability to engage both infantry and armor
>>98251150Any thoughts to guide me on making the falchion more enticing? Is it something as simple as points reduction or does the main gun need more something something?
>>98251162Battle cannon with flashburn shells to still be effective vs vehicles while not nearly as much of a waacfag. Better yet, two such vehicles as the bodyguard of a fellblade as the head if your armored column.
>>98251162The melta is more consistent than the cannon at killing infantry as well unless you are shooting at lesser at stuff with a 4+sv
>>98251222Bring back the dual volcano cannons on the Falchion from 1e/2e. Currently it's just a Cerberus with more strength and less shots for +250 points.
>>98251222Make it blast(3") on top of its regular profile. That fixes most of it. Blast, with the changes made to the way it works in 3rd, is very accurate, especially against large targets (which is what the falchion wants to kill). Its what makes the volcano cannon on the shadowsword so potent (well, that and the insane stats on the thing, as one would expect from a volcano cannon). That would make the neutron wave battery more reliable into its intended targets, while still ultimately not being very good into anything else. A 3" blast hits exactly 1 guy if the opponent spreads out.
>>98251257>The melta is more consistent than the cannon at killing infantryNo it isnt. The melta cannon kills 1~ infantry guy per shot. The battle cannon kills more (assuming youre firing into 3+ save dudes) if you hit 5+ dudes, and it has a status on top of that. But frankly none of the kratos loadouts are THAT good into infantry, not even the volkite.
Should I pick death guard, thousand sons or word bearers for my first army?
>>98251285>if you hit 5+ dudesyea good luck with thatThere's also a whole lot of infantry units that you are not going to kill with a 1D shot
>>98251290Death Guard look best. so there's your answer.
>>98251162The melta cannon makes for a very scary "vehicle duellist", especially with the decurion. But that full loadout is expensive. A "naked" kratos is on the other hand rather cheap.
>>98251290idk how it is now but wordbearers were literally unfinished for a good chunk of time, ruinstorm was unfinished and their morale army rule basically only kicked in if they were in close combat with konrad fucking curze. TS is alright, death guard probably the most fun one you named out of the three.
>>98251290I went with DG, but WB are pretty cool.
>>98251299Its 2D because youre stable, so its solid into VEQ too. Bad into terminators, but so is the melta cannon, youre ROI is abysmal either way. >good luck with thatMaximum coherency is 2" for most units (non skirmish). The radius on a large blast is 2.5". You are mathematically guaranteed a solid connection unless the enemy unit is standing in a kongaline. This is also ignoring its utility in other matchups (solar aux/militia with their 1" coherency and big blobs of 4+ save dudes), demons with poor saves and lots of multi wound models, etc
>>98251251>>98251257>>98251301Thanks, dudes. Since it’ll probably be my only one and maybe my biggest tank period, I’m thinking the melta cannon’s going to be it.
>>98251334This isnt to say the battle cannon is great, I dont think it is. I think the kratos, as an anti-infantry vehicle, is simply a trap where its too expensive for what it does (although I havent put too much thought into it so I could be wrong). At least in the marine matchup, vs aux (or militia, or demons) it seems like a great little thing, with very few good answers and a solid ability to recoup its cost through sheer infaltry mulching power with its split firing. >>98251350With the way it comes together, its really easy to have all the weapons be interchangeable. Its what I did.
>>98251265>>98251277Isn’t the gun modeled on it the neutron wave cannon? Anyways you both have good feedback. I’d say actually change it to blast 5”. Add shock pulse to any unit it penetrates or wounds. Forcing them to shoot snap shots. Keep strength 12. Makes it great against vehicles and viable against troops in a pinch. Points wise I still need to sit on it.
>>98251265>>98251277On top of my falchion suggestions, make fellblade HE 7” blast S8 and AP round S9 3” blast and armourbane. Differentiates the 2. Fellblade being the inbetween of Falchion and Glaive.
>>98251492>Isn’t the gun modeled on it the neutron wave cannon?It's the same gun as on the resin model, which was a volcano cannon. They just retconned the design to be a neutron laser. The same way they retconned laser destroyer arrays to be different from four lascannons by having more autocannon style muzzles. Because of reasons.
>>98250703right now
>>98251535Unless you want to argue that every single neutron wave weapon is actually secretly a miniature volcano cannon, the gun on the falchion has always been a neutron weapon, it just only hot tules for using at such later (can't remember if the neutron battery upgrade was first intro'd in a red book or 2nd)
>>98251492If you want to be fancy, allow for alternative weapons such as the Warhound flamer (Ascalon) and the Asterius conversion beamer (as in >>98247837) to be swapped on.
>>98251608How is one in this much denial over a simple fact?
>>98251696
>>98251696There's very few anons left who were there when the old works were created. To the majority of HH players now, 2.0 was the first edition.
>>98251707In LAAoDAL they added the Neutron Wave Capacitor as an upgrade to the Volcano Cannon, similar to how the Vindicator got the Power Capacitor.
>>98251696>>98251707>>98251728>it only got rules for using it later Read retard
>>98251728In 2.0 they added neutron-wave cannon as a replacement for the twin-linked volcano cannon. And the neutron-wave cannon was not twin-linked like the volcano cannon. It's also weird that while the Neutron Wave Capacitor upgrade was suppose to boost the firepower, the neutron-wave cannon had a much lower strength (S10 vs. S14 of the volcano cannon), with the only addition being the Shock Pulse that caused the target, upon a Penetrating Hit on it, make Snap Shots for the next turn. So you traded four points of strength for guaranteed Crew Shaken (the most common result on the damage table).
>>98251754Shock Pulse could affect super-heavy vehicles though, unlike crew shaken.
>>98251525The fellblade is fine as is, its an expensive but versatile vehicle that works as a good all rounder bruiser without being oppressive at any task.
>>98251492>I’d say actually change it to blast 5”At 5" blast it becomes usable as an anti infantry weapon. Which you dont want. Two S12 D8 b5" blasts is "whatever that unit is, its gone" levels of firepower. >Add shock pulse to any unit it penetrates or wounds. Forcing them to shoot snap shotsIt already has shock stunned. >viable against troops in a pinchWhich it shouldnt be. Its a dedicated tank killer, its a giant tank built around a giant gun, that gun is a centerline mounted titan killer. Using it against infantry is and should be pointless and stupid. If you want to kill ONLY infantry, you take a glaive. If you want to kill only tanks, you take the falchion. If you want to do a little of both? You take the fellblade. Thats the dynamic, thats their designated roles (technically they invented the ascalon for LI, but thats another "dedicated single role vehicle"). Units dont need to do anything, "things units cant do" are good and how the game should function.
>>98251731>it just only hot tules for using at such laterFTFYIf it was always a neutron laser, why even bother with making it a volcano cannon?
>>98251492I dont want to sound overly harsh. But its probably a good idea to have a grasp of editions and "why things are how they are" before you try and change them. The falchion currently has (and in the past: had) the ability to shock pulse/shock the things it shoots at. The falchion having a 5" blast would be absurdly powerful given its current weapon profile and how blasts currently work>but im just changing everything!Great, that means all feedback is pointless because its a ground up frankestein. However, I am questioning your understanding of "roles" and "what units should do" if you think a falchion should be able to dabble in infantry killing.
>>98251843>I am questioning your understanding of "roles" and "what units should do" if you think a falchion should be able to dabble in infantry killingIf you ask the people here anti tank should actually mean it kills everything in the game extremely efficiently and is supposedly balanced by high points cost, a la 1.0.
>>98251843Basically, while I can understand asking people ITT for their feedback and complaints (of which you will always find many). Try reading the rules, identifying what the purpose of a unit is or ought to be, and how its rules do (or dont, if the unit is badly written) fulfil that. You know Chestertons Fence? "There exists in such a case a certain institution or law; let us say, for the sake of simplicity, a fence or gate erected across a road. The more modern type of reformer goes gaily up to it and says, “I don’t see the use of this; let us clear it away.” To which the more intelligent type of reformer will do well to answer: “If you don’t see the use of it, I certainly won’t let you clear it away. Go away and think. Then, when you can come back and tell me that you do see the use of it, I may allow you to destroy it.”"Before changing a rule or weapon statline, figure out why it is the way it is, and only then go fiddling with it.
>>98251843>A squad of meltaguns shouldn't be able to kill infantry AND tanks, that's ridiculous
>>98251852This. No matter how much they bitch and whiney about game balance, tabletop wargamers actually want the unit that kill everything easily, whilst being tanky and fast at the same time, that they can just mindlessly spam.
>>98251854>You know Chestertons Fence?You're assuming GW knows and understands their own rules, rather than just shuffling the deck every few years to keep selling more stuff.
>>98251855A squad of meltagun marines are not efficient into infantry, no. Thats a historically bad choice of targets for them in most situations (its fine into some of the more elite infantry units, and still fraught with all sorts of issues regarding range and whatnot - meltaguns are not safe weapons). You may as well argue that falchions already "kill infantry fine" because whatever they hit will die whether its a land raider or tactical marine. But yes, situation where anti-tank weaponry is equally cost-effective against general infantry targets or vehicles is a situation where the rules designed fucked up. When you can safely take one size fits all solutions to problems you have essentially invalidated listbuilding (as seen in 2e).This is also ignoring how asinine the comparison is, the falchion (like the laser vindicator) is the pinnacle of anti tank weaponry. A meltagun is an infantry grade weapon you give out to 10 dudes in a rhino. The difference in what they do is significant. >>98251872The proverbial fence doesent need to have been made for a GOOD reason, but it was made for a reason. The rules were not generated randomly, stats and abilities pulled out of the aether. Designers wrote it with various ideas and goals in mind. They may have failed at those goals (for a plethora of reasons, down to "theyre retards"), or had bad ideas, but without understanding them youre not going to be in a good position to change them.
>>98251889>The rules were not generated randomly, stats and abilities pulled out of the aether.Considering how they consider basic math to be an opinion, they might as well have.>without understanding them you're not going to be in a good position to change them.Hey, if their reasons for doing something were bad, another persons reason for changing them can be just as bad. Maybe in all the bad decisions we can make something that works?
>>98251768>>98251803>>98251843Appreciate the guidance gentlemen and I don’t take the criticism personally. The falchion would only fire once a turn. Also I’m thinking about reeling back damage characteristics and trying to stick to no hull points except for super heavies (perhaps structure points) and going back to the 5th edition vehicle damage chart. I am deeply affected by my times with 4th-5th and I think 1.0 did a lot of things right. This is hard to discuss without showing you guys the document I’m working on but I’m happy to see there is discussion going on. I love to see the passion guys. Keep working with me on this.
>>98251927>Also I’m thinking about reeling back damage characteristicsIts fucked. Instant death/no damage is a flatly worse system. Its "simpler" and "more intuitive", theres something very natural about "oh, a big gun just kills you", but it removes many of the levers of what you can do to balance a weapon or unit. It ends up with arbitrary breakpoints being the make-or-break, making abnormal statlines (see: dreads, demon brutes, etc.) incredibly powerful, and is just generally not very good. It also, in the case of vehicles, encourages "good enough" weapons (like lascannons and baby meltas) over the big guns. Because the difference between S9 and S10 or S12 is in most cases rather academic, especially with the relative rarity of the weapons considered. Which means the big guns have to tend towards blasts, which means they now become generalists in all cases (and dreads and other "big toughness" units are still going to be problems)
>>98251915>another person's reason for changing them can be just as badBut that's still bad, which is the problem. Doubly so because now its bad AND aimless. >Maybe in all the bad decisions we can make something that works?You're more likely to end up with a schizophrenic mess. Like a Chinese whispers game of bad game design. It also ignores the possibility that the "bad idea" was executed well. For example: Plasma and Disintigrator weapons in 3e have very strange niches in terms of what they do and what their feel is. Plasma is safe and middling in terms of damage output; disintegrator weapons are mostly aimed at infantry killing and "feel" like you would expect from plasma. The decision to give them these roles was questionable. The weapons are however balanced okay, they do their jobs and so forth. If you dont understand the (potentially bad) idea for what the weapon roles are, and then buff the profiles to "what they should be" in your mind, you risk creating other problems and breaking the game.
>>98251977The "idea" can be whatever people want them to be. Plenty of things have had their function change over the editions and just because you design something to work a certain way doesn't mean people find it works best in that role or even want to use them at all.
>>98251960Has the damage system over instant death been an improvement or has it degraded the Horus Heresy experience? I swear I’ve heard enough where it’s split 50/50 as far as people’s taste. Though you make a decent argument to weapon profiles, I’ll give you that.
>>98251960I also want to ask if you’re familiar with the 5th edition vehicle chart. You and other anons feel free to chip in your two cents. I’m curious which direction I and others would like to lean.
>>98252087It's a huge improvement. Adds way more value to wound values, and much more granularity to weapons. It also removed the age old issue of +1 toughness being the difference between losing a wound, or getting turned into a red smear on the ground.
>>98252155You are swaying me to the side of damage characteristics. I will say this, I really appreciate how they made terminators 2 wounds and toughness 5. Let me stew on it. I am still working on the base rule set. But back to vehicles I do not like the current way things are with the glancing and penetrating hit effects. Penetrating hits should have penalties besides a HP off. I’m brainstorming the old vehicle chart with HP added to vehicles for extra resiliency. But can’t make them too tanky.
>>98251843>"why things are how they are" before you try and change them.nigga please no one thinks like this when making a game. you think 40k 2e rules writers thought of the implications of heavy infantry that save on a 3+ on 2d6? Or a full auto autocannon that one shot everything in the game? Game succeeded anyway and it's fun.
>>98252176>Penetrating hits should have penalties besides a HP offThat is precisely what made tanks so utter shit in old editions. The only reason tanks were good in 1.0 was because they had incredible damage, were criminally undercosted, and armoured ceramite made melta completely useless.A vehicle damage chart only works when there's no hullpoints mechanic making the vehicle lose wounds too, otherwise penetrating hits are just too devastating to tanks.
>>98252301Remove Glancing Hits, it's a penetration or not. Remove Hull Points. Done.
>>98249000what legion do you play?
>>98252381Thoughts? This is what I was able to pull up. Maybe could extend it to 7+ explodes?
>>98252381What about 4th editions two separate vehicle charts? I remember vehicles being tougher in 4th and 5th which is what people complained about in HH2 without all the hull point stuff. It was lascannon squads being too good was one of the problems.
>>98252613Let's bring back the ordnance vehicle damage chart where the unit inside a transport vehicle was automatically destroyed upon an explodes resiult
>>98252615I understand some people’s hesitation but stuff like that which created swingy memorable moments was the bee’s knees. I think instead of hull down you can have vehicles use cover saves instead to nullify potential shots. Smokes can be a once per game 4+ cover save. Change some of the options in the vehicle tables so that glancing hits can never destroy them and have more serious shit for the penetrating and ordnance damage charts. 4th and to some extent 5th are loved for some of its simplicity, crunch, and flavor. HH is founded on some of that and I always thought we should look back to what a better edition could be like. It’s easy to shit on 3.0 but it does some cool things and does some things right.
>>98245230>>98245270>>98245273EpicAU's 30K lists for Armageddon are still around even though the original dude and website have vanished into the ether. You can excavate the originals from the internet archive or FB, and on FB somewhere there are also some updated versions.
>>98246602Are they going to send a squad of space marines to burn out their store? No. Are they going to quietly suggest that perhaps if that store wants to keep getting supplied with product in future they should write down the old edition books on their taxes and run them through a shredder? If their regional distribution contact was in a bad mood, quite possibly.
>>98252087Personally, I think it’s grand. I wish they’d also change AP into a negative modifier so 2+/3+ would be less of a difference. They’ve used breaching quite liberally to do this, which is fine, I just think a negative modifier would be better.
>>98247780Tortuga offer STLs to Patreon subscribers, but not bodies just the upgrades(heads, weapon sets, shoulderpads, backpacks etc). Some of those have leaked out but afaik there are no scans of the TB bodies and only a couple of Russia-based and very private recasters do them, because even most people who pirate stuff aren't cunty enough to rip off a small business operating out of a country that's been invaded who've had several staff called up to fight.
>>98247780Ok I still recommend you just placing another order instead of printing to support them.
>>98251854these guys think rolling a 1 is impossible anon, they're never going to understand any rules
>>98249000Okey, as a "shit painter" I think I am not following your logic. Why would someone with an already painted army, good/bad/different then the Studio, worry about how the studio armies look like, in any fashion. Only thing I "worry" about is what ever my dudes are majority painted or not. If I were to care about other people thoughts about the skill level which the models ended up painted with, I would have quit 30+ years ago, heck maybe even 40+ years ago. If anything my painting went down with time. One of my best models ever painted are the 4 first models I painted and converted for 2ed. 4 melee csm veterans (fallen DA).
>>98252724I have posted the file with the latest AU versions here before some retard had the brilliant idea to use /tg/'s ability to upload pdfs to inject malware on the backend. You can still get them through archives or directly from FB but once I'm back from work I'll put them on gofile.
psy-eunuch pocket-dimension wiggartha is.... no more....
>>98252087Its a massive improvement. It solves a lot of the persistent issues with heresy and is just such a no-brainer change to older editions. It has some things you can find annoying ("why can a captain survive a lascannon!") but thats just an inherent feature of wounds too (why can a captain survive an autocannon or heavy bolter when everyone else dies in one wound?)
>>98252093Yes, 5th was my first edition of warhammer 40k. The vehicle damage chart has its charms, but its worse than the HP + chart system (which is in turn worse than the current system, even if that system is still a bit imperfect). The vehicle damage chart was designed for a game where penetrating hits are exceedingly rare, and where subsequently those penetrating hits should feel impactful. Where AV14/14/14 vehicles were found in three out of however many factions (marines, chaos marines, necrons) and where those vehicles could feel like nigh-unkillable monsters because they were an expensive deathstar brick in their own right. Its ill suited to HH, and will either result in vehicles being made of paper or vehicles being immortal, depending on which way you tweak it. It also - once again - encourages "good enough" hits, youre simply better off rolling more times on the chart with pens than trying to bring Ap1. Which will hurt what weapons have roles and where.
>>98252262>you think 40k 2e rules writers thought of the implications of heavy infantry that save on a 3+ on 2d6? Or a full auto autocannon that one shot everything in the game?Yes. I think they thought about those things and had reasons for doing them. I think they werent necessarily "well thought out", and theres a reason you dont have 2d6 armor saves in later editions. But I can absolutely imagine why someone could do that (its - in theory - a more granular armor system and helps marines feel suitably durable). They didnt pull words out of a bag and end up with 2d6 3+ saves, they had conscious reasons for doing it. Those reasons just may have been short sighted or silly.
>>98252753>Are they going to quietly suggest that perhaps if that store wants to keep getting supplied with product in future they should write down the old edition books on their taxes and run them through a shredder?No, because they wouldnt care. As long as the store continues to order from GW, GW does not care what happens to the things the store buys. The store could simply burn every box that gets shipped to them and dump the resulting goo in a big pit. GWs customer isnt "the customer", the guy buying from the shop, it is the shop itself. The SHOP has a vested interest in selling the things it orders (because thats how it makes its money), but as long as it keeps ordering from GW, GW is getting everything it cares about.
>>98252779This, as 40k has show, is a very dangerous thing. Negative modifiers, even in small degres, make a giant difference (-1 causes a 2+ save unit to take double damage). Its why everything and their mother ended up with an invulnerable save, because armor gets degraded so quickly that they needed to add a cap to it. It also ends up in a situation where "mathematically" the super high modifier weapons (-4, -3) arent worth it compared to just "a lot of -1 and -2", which isnt the situation you want for your game. Having 2+ armor feel like a "generally impervious" defense is fine imo, it fits to the fantasy and the units that have it tend to pay a steep price for it anyways. If you want it to be less impactful, simply buff things like breaching on weapons.That said, a weapon that "degrades armor" could be interesting. Not as a general rule. but as a specific gimmick for a given weapon type. Ideally a fairly rare one.
>>98253586Noice, luna wolves?Sauce?
>>98253471I always thought of the higher wound values of characters as a representation of plot armour.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/sjmnfka8/enter-the-zone-mortalis-with-new-age-of-darkness-rules/
>>98253661Much like previous Journals, this one includes new Units, intended to be represented by kitbashes and conversions, that are an opportunity to add a little individual flair to any Army. There’s a new Army List profile for the Zone Mortalis-adapted, heavy flamer-wielding Mechanicum Castellax Infernus Maniple. The Solar Auxilia Army List is supplemented by breaching shotgun and boarding shield breaching Veletaris Raider Sections, with tech support provided by the Auxilia Combat Technician Section. The Legiones Astartes aren't left out, and gain profiles for both Veteran Despoiler Squads and Veteran Breacher Squads.
>>98253242And I'm home.gofile.io/d/Tjn3gYMain folder is AU, others are self explainatory but despite the name netEA isn't approved lists, just the various experimental ones. The legion one also lost some units along the way.
>>98253661>>98253663Damn that all sounds cool, genuinely. SA with boarding shields? Heck yes.
>>98253661>Breacher & despoiler vetsVeteran vets when?
>>98253663not going to lie lads this sounds pretty kino
>>98253663>infernus manipleIexpect just castellax but you swap the shoulder gun for a heavy flamer>velataris raiderswill be interesting to see how they're built, auxilia have neither shotguns nor shields, and a 10 man squad with the KT navy breacher shield seems unfeasable>combat techniciansI expect built like a command squad but with completely different rules>vet despoilersself explainatory>vet breachersI expect a model example they do wont have volkite but the rules will allow volkite, I hope melee weapons can be taken
>>98253661>despoiler vetsFINALLY
>>98253710>will be interesting to see how they're builtKill team navis breachers. >vet breachersAre currently a legacy unit, so yes, theyll have melee weapons.
>>98253716Still wild how many completely new units we got in something called legacies. Not that I'm complaining though.
>>98253723Its not that many. Tartaros siege, vet breachers, veteran HSS. Thats basically it.
>>98253716the breachers only have 1 shield though
>>98253734Guess you need to buy the box 20 times then huh?
>>98253745I'm gonna pr00nt
>>98253716>>98253710Arbites have shields for 10 right? And they have separate arms like auxilia
>>98253750What about the palantine enforcer shields from necromunda?
>>98253763oh shit yeah that's a good call, might be a bit big for SA
>>98248920We need to kill primaris.
>>98253803I dont like that missile launcher.
GW hasnt learned their lesson it seems.
This is cool. Could be a thing in normal battles too I feel, give slightly different rules to jetpack troops jumping in vs terminators teleporting in vs the termite
Is the head on the deredeo the same size as a normal contemptor head?
>>98253951they're roughly equivalent in width but a deredeo's 'head' is a good smidge longer in its jutting forward
>>98253922vehicles in confined spaces are kino nglspessmarines don't have a very convincing one besides perhaps a rhino thoughbeit
>>98254061Locally we've often used vehicles as additional terrain for ZM. Make a vehicle bay and just treat the vehicles as ZM walls. Helps a lot since ZM needs so bloody much terrain.
>vet despoilers finallyMight need to buy some more power scythes, it seems
>>98254165Wonder if they'll have Line 1 like veteran tacticals. If so, Pride of the Legion is back on the menu.
>>98254111i like the notion of a land raider having burrowed itself into a zm environ and having gotten stuck and/or disabled but carving out a tunnel behind itself insodoing as a maybe primary terrain featurevehicle bays are definitely a great angle to take as well
>>98254178Probably vanguard(3), but that could be cool too.
>>98254229Despoilers have Line though. And they're not called mortalis assault veterans or something like that, which might indicate they won't have Vanguard.
>>98254234>Despoilers have Line thoughSo do breachers, and yet breacher vets are vanguard(3)
>>98254238For now...
>>98254242You expect them to get line? Because I dont.
>>98254248With how lazy GW is a straight up copy-paste from the legacies is the most likely outcome yes. But still, there's a slight chance they changed something. More units being upgraded from legacies to full publication is a nice reaffirmation that stuff won't get squatted. Though changing from free rules to paid DLC sucks.
>>98254248They'll be Line once GW drops breacher vets for not having an official kit.
>>98254296go back to 40kg
Heard they are changing the wargear options for vet breachers in the journal. Cutting down on ranged options and attacks are going to be altered.
>>98254292>With how lazy GW is a straight up copy-paste from the legacies is the most likely outcome yes. But still, there's a slight chance they changed something.I think they might change some things, but I think the "core" of the unit has to remain more or less the same. They wouldnt suddenly make them "shooty vets" (as opposed to their current melee oriented profile). Youre more likely to get volkite charger or shotgun options as a bolter replacement. I dont know this for sure, nor is it something I think is a "hard rule". But I think GW is apprehensive of "nerfing" units, at least "within the edition". Its like how you wont see a gacha game nerf units, people are less likely to buy if their toys have a chance to be worse soon. >Though changing from free rules to paid DLC sucks.They technically did it with custodes too (and those didnt get changed much).>>98254296You know they didnt have an official kit ever right? GW invented them for legacies this edition.
>>98254315from whom?
>>98254320>they didnt have an official kit ever right?Yes, that's exactly the point. They invented them from nothing and they'll disappear into nothing once James is satisfied with Breacher sales and there's more new stuff to be sold.
>>98254315Ill bite, where have you heard this. Because it sounds silly>cutting down on ranged optionsThey already dont have those. They have melee weapons options and special weapons options.
>>98254329>Yes, that's exactly the point.That they will have their rules changed when they get "dropped" to legacies (which is what they currently are) for not having official models (which they never did)? Did you forget to take your meds?
>>98254329
>>98254341>once something goes to Legacies, they'll be there forever and ever, James told me soMust be nice living in denial.
>>98254296Retard 40kuck, begone
>>98254353First of all: Yes, "units" - model equipment loadouts - are rarely if ever fully gone. If/when 4th edition rolls around there will, somewhere in a pdf or some unit entry, be the ability to recreate what is currently veteran breachers (melee weapon + breacher shield). They might not be called vet breachers (in the same way despoiler veterans and tactical vets are different names for the veteran squad for 2e), but they will be the way to represent that unit. Second:Why would they change the rules if/when they "drop" the unit. Do you think theres some sort of super-legacies document? Where if you die in the afterlife you go to superhell? If vet breachers were going to be "dropped" they wouldnt get line, they would simply not be an entry any more. Although to date exactly one unit has vanished from HH. Nullificators. And the odds of those returning are not insubstantial.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/rsaprnhx/mix-and-match-your-kits-with-the-new-mkiv-space-marines/These articles are morbidly hilarious. "By the way, you know you can convert your models? Look! You can put your arms on different bodies!"
>>98254391Sadly, they are needed. Still can't believe it myself even after having encountered it several times by now, but there is a whole new generation of HH players who genuinely cannot imagine doing even the most simple kitbash. They even complain about unit entries not having pictures of the GW models included, and think it's confusing. They can't even figure out what weapons look like themselves. Independent thought, creativity, and critical thinking are legit dying out, it's depressing as fuck.
>>98254401>Sadly, they are neededThats what makes it funny.
>>98254391It's so obvious how the command squad sprue was designed for mkIV, look at the helmets
>>98254391
>>98254418I appreciate the spirit of this, but I hate how it looks.
>>98254418>mixing mk2/3 with mk6 bodies and legsdisgusting
>>98254418>This kills the rivet counters
>>98254401Thank chatgpt.
>>98254435Nah this was already happening before that. LLM AI just accelerated it.
>>98254418BASED BASED BASED>>98254431I personally want to slit the throat of armor autists that only have single mark PA squads.
>>98254418kino police arrest this man
>NOOOOOOOO YOU SHOULDN'T MIX ARMOR MARKS
>>98254453AAAAAAAAAAA ANON ONLY THE IRON HANDS WERE CAPABLE OF SUCH FEATS EVERYONE ELSE HAD RETARD TECHMARINES AAAAAA
>>98254453>>98254457this, but unironically
>>98254391I actually appreciate them doing this article, in the bare plastic
>>98254453You can Bubba a lot of things.
>>98254431It's true, I literally feel myself sickening and growing weaker the longer I look at the image.
>>98254418>>98254453>IH with the chopped autist fitFitting
>>98254411the mid section of nuMk4 is so bad, ughWtf the front plate is fused to the belt?
>>98254391>Hey guys, did you know you can BUILD yout models?What the fuck was the point of this?
>>98254673Telling the resident 40kfag that the new models are compatible with the old upgrade kits.
>>98254418Based
>>98254683He still won’t do it because it’s not an “official” kit (the melee arms and tac bodies aren’t in the same box).
>>98253586Baller alert.
>>98253661>kit bashes and conversionsCheap fucks cant even make any new upgrade sets. Def will keep giving my money to fucking china and russia and 3d printers then instead of these jewey fucks.
>>98254802Thanks for the blogpost, anon. Really needed that information.
These will make an excellent base for converting plastic kakophoni
I hope you guys understand that the upgrade kits will only be shoulder pads and an insufficient amount of weapons to fill a squad @ $50. No torsos due to the molds for squads.
>>98254866I miss the aesthetic of the cables attached from weapons to power pack. Same with heavy bolter feed.
>>98254870Not if the breacher upgrade kit is anything to go by. It’s got everything a basic ass breacher squad can take in it, so I’d expect $50-$55 for just enough to fill out a 10-man unit.
>>98254870You dont say.
I love the True Mechanicum AHHHHH
>>98254966bzased
>>98254866why kakophoni specifically?
>>98254802Agreed.
>>98254991Because I only care about emperors children
>>98254411the groin plate looks so weird and the ab plate has lost it's sharpness
>>98255016Based monolegion enjoyer
>>98254877Unfortunately all of those relied on the fact that resin can be heated and bent into place. Can't do that with plastic.
>>98255081Plastic 40k devastators proved that it was possible
>>98255016Ok fair.
>>98255089Very true.
>>98255089Yeah and it required them to have very specific bits that only fit in a single way. It's doably but with the format of weapon upgrades with 10 of each gun on the sprue it would have taken 3 thimes the sprue space for the same amount of weapons. I can see why they didn't wanna do that. Shame they are scrapping resin production.
>>98255089>man decrying monopose miniatures wants even more literally monopose miniatures
>>98255121>Shame they are scrapping resin production.Get on the recast train already anon.
>>98255089They could do what Bandai does and just give you a wire you can bend to shape
>>98255121>>98255144Its a real shame that japanese "garage" autists havent seemed to discover warhammer bit customization yet. Some of the custom shit they do for frame arms girls/gundams and mechas in general out of resin are fucking PHENOMENAL.
>>98255147Do you think zoomoids and 40keks are going to put in that degree of effort? It’d cause such pantshitting that it’d be pulled almost immediately.
Working on a Terminator Command squad for my Sons of Horus and Veteran Breachers for my Iron Warriors. What's the rest of the thread cooking?
>>98255285>What's the rest of the thread cooking?Moose, onion and mushroom stew.
>>98255285Man the 40k IW helmets look great on 30k models.
>>98255285Going to start either a command squad or poisoners for my DG tonight. Payday is Friday so I’ll probably be making a big order for bits from Chang to add flavor to my vets.
>>98255329They're clearly made by the same current 30k designer and reused for 40k for some reason.I bet they'll look even better on nuMk4
>>98255285are the IW heads bigger than the plastic nu-mkii?
>>98255285I gotta figure out what i wamma make next. Im kinda torn, im not really sure. Im taking suggestions thoughIm doing a side project were im painting a champion in girly pop colors for a friend of mine she asked me to do it so i said fuck it.
>>98255387What legion do you play/collect?
>>98255393Tsons, knights/titans, and Dangels I got about....idk, like 5k points of each?
>>98255147That IS what they did. The old resin ammo belts were flat strimps, you heat them and bend them to whatever shape you need. Its a bit of a pain, but it makes for some pleasing models imo. Love my old rotor cannons.
>>98255393>>98255406To add to this, my current project im trying to do is terrain. But i gotta cut some wood for the base.
>>98255406>>98255429Sweet, what kind of terrain? You doing something urban or something natural?
i wonder if they are going to nerf veteran breachers with their journal rules
>>98255393Make a fun little allied detachment? Some spireguard for your Tsons? Some Castellax for some Cohorts Vagus?
>>98255378Huh, I hadn’t noticed, but I guess they are
>>98255445>maximum of two (2) lascutters per squad
>>98255469Looks the same to me.
>>98255523Circumference is similar, IW upgrade is a bit taller tho
>>98255438It's an end cap piece it's 4foot wide though the scale is a bit off for 32mm but it still looks good.
>>98255469Are those the 40k IW heads? Are CSM getting their heads shrunk too?
>>98255574Sick, dude. I say work on that.
>>98255618They’re the 40k upgrade pack, I don’t have any other CSM heads to compare them with
>>98255702I bought that pack from Chang for the bionic arm & hammer for a siege breaker. Wonder how much I could get for the heads and shoulder plates.
>>98255285too hot for cooking
>>98255285painting the power sword AoS praetor (i hate it) and a cataphractii siege breaker.
>>98255445Don't think that's likely. Sure, they're good, but it's a relatively expensive unit. Add in the cost of the Rhino and they're around 400 points or something. And so far GW has been really hands-off with HH's balance, the only real nerf that happened was with that one Blackshields oath combo. Which everybody said needed to be nerfed. >>98255472Still would.
>>98255285Building my xiphon.
I'm on a mission to get my brother to enjoy Horus Heresy again. His main point of contention with 2.0 was the amount of book keeping with the mechanicum when it comes to who buffs what, what rule interacts with another rule and the amount of time it took to build even a small list with the amount of fucking about you had to do flipping backwards and forwards through the army book.Has 3.0 alleviated any of these issues? He currently says he doesn't want to play because of the new extra stats that every miniature has, but I don't know how they impact the game as I'm a 2.0-only.Can anyone help? I'm going to pick up the new Zone Mortalis book so that we can play smaller, tighter games and I'm hoping to hook him there. Talk to me anons.
>>98254877>>98255081>>98255089I think they should have at least put some alt powerpacks or accessories instead. Even without ammo chutes & cables you can still make the heavy weapon guy more special.
>>98255285Expanding my resin rapier squads to 4 rapiers, and making bases for all of them. Honestly like rapiers having bases now, makes the carriers and crew look like a coherent unit.
Would this make for a good DG company banner? I’d replace the hammer head with a scythe blade and scrape the Sigmar comet for an Eye of Horus or something. I guess what I’m asking is if it’s too fantastical for the setting, because I think it’s cool.
>>98256507First thing that comes to mind is Night Lords for me, but you could convert it a bit and see what you end up with.
>>98256507Replace that hammer with a sword and you got an excellent DA banner. For DG? Not so much, they weren't big into the whole reaper thing.
>>98256555Yeah, I could definitely see NL, but the grim reaper motif is pretty DG too. Best way to see would be to grab one I suppose.
>>98256564>they weren’t big into the reaper thingAnon, their primarch is Mortarion the Reaper. They carry power scythes into battle and have a detachment called the reaping host. The grim reaper is definitely a thing for them.
>>98256564>they weren't big into the whole reaper thing.Their iconography is just full of scythes and hour glasses for their agricultural significance.
>>98256581>>98256589The scythes are because the people of Barbarus were basically peasant farmers rising up against their undead overlords under the leadership of Mortarion.The DG themselves never used a grim reaper in their iconography, that was purely a Mortarion's favourite cosplay kinda thing.
>>98256637And the hour glass?>that was purely a Mortarion's favourite cosplay kinda thing.Would be a shame for a legion to have iconography related to their leader, now wouldn't it?
>>98256670>HourglassRegularly used amongst destroyer companies in multiple legions. >Iconography related to their leaderThere's SoH with the Eye of Horus, but that's about it. Since you seem so adept at finding old artwork of daemon primarch Mortarion, finding an example of DG themselves using a Reaper on one of their flags or vehicles shouldn't be an issue for you, right? By all means, prove me wrong.
>>98256637they used a skull as the Dusk Raiders>>98256725>Regularly used amongst destroyer companies in multiple legions.but found in large numbers on the DG Legion transfers from 2015-present and not, for example, on the generic Legion infantry markings sheet from 2023, which even bothers to include multiple versions of the Librarius daemon head and 160 destroyer symbols of various sizes
>>98256725>Regularly used amongst destroyer companies in multiple legions.Then you shouldn't have any problems finding multiple examples. I only know of their use with the DA Dreadwing.>that's about it.DG use of the scythe ties directly to Mortarion and crossed scythes on a marine is the mark personal commendation by Mortarion.>prove me wrong.Of what? If someone wanted to paint a 30k version of Creation of Adam on the side of their BA tank, would you go "that's not allowed, it's not in the official depictions"? You really gonna have an issue with the legion named after death, full of death iconography with scythes, skulls and hourglasses, having a banner with the grim reaper on it? Ok, fine, lets paint his robes denim and he's now a farmer. A dead farmer, hence the skull and angel wings. Turn the comet into a burning planet to symbolize his dead homeworld.
>>98256091no, 3e mechanicum is even more obtuse in terms of listbuilding because it's actually like 6 sub armies in one and you aren't allowed to mix their detachmentsthe cybertheurgies are also even more convoluted bc of the beneficial statuses on top of the negative ones
