>this setting is human-dominated and nonhumans face extreme prejudice and discrimination>monstrous species like orcs and goblins are attacked on sight in human settlements, they are pure evil; not "misunderstood" human-adjacent sentient beings>"that sounds great, can I play a minotaur?">"I have an idea for a goblin cleric I'd like to try out">"what about this species that kinda looks human but isn't?"
I bet this scenario sounded really clever in your head.
>>98244288Putting aside that this didn't happen, this is just your players indicating they want to work on one side of the dichotomy you pitched them i.e. they are motivated and engaged with the premise. You're a pretty bad GM if you can't work with that.Shit unless you specifically say >I want to run a campaign where the humans hate and genocide everyone>on the human sideI think if you leave off the second line a lot of players would pick up that hook and assume they would be fighting against the humans. TTRPGs players are typically pretty lib. 'Humans are prejudiced and demihumans fight against them' is pretty common in isekai/Jap fantasy too.
>>98244288In every game with such a setting I've ever been in there always was exactly one player like that, but they'd always lean into their race's situation and enjoy exploring and roleplaying the effects of prejudice. So I see no issue
The solution is to have them get brutally murdered by a mob of crazed humans that just gets angrier if you fight back. If they want a front row seat at the game's tone-setting intro then give it to them.
>>98244339> and enjoy exploring and roleplaying the effects of prejudice>as long as there is no actual prejudice and my character retains all the benefits everyone else does
>>98244349Nice strawman, but no, one of them was literally dragged around in chains and flaggelated, while another one had to spend the entire campaign in disguise and be very careful not to be discoveredSorry about your players
>>98244339Based. Good player you got there.>>98244349It is tragic how many players act like this, but Anon explicitly stated this wasn't the case>>98244361Double based oh My God bless your table
>>98244288who are you talking to?
>>98244339>>98244377But the real question is: Are they committed to actually being evil? So the humans are prejudiced, that's cool, but the premise implies that if you're not accepted by humans you are evil. Will they go the extra mile to juxtapose that with their character? Would they assist a Lawful Evil tyrant in subjugating the humans, or are they just intent on exploring the role of being a victim? The latter can still work, but being an evil victim as a narrative choice is downright bizarre.
>>98244377Thanks! One of benefits of being a nerd in Poland is that most Slavs love some good grimdark in fiction. You just have to be careful not to overdo it with shit like Jesienna Gawęda that just becomes a GM miseryporn powertrip and and a miserable experience for everyone involved. But playing as an absolute bottom of society underdog can be really fun if done right and if you're not a snowflake
>>98244413>You just have to be careful not to overdo it>But playing as an absolute bottom of society underdog can be really fun if done right >and if you're not a snowflakeaka>as long as there is no actual prejudice and my character retains all the benefits everyone else does
>>98244409I think it depends on the setting, as certain things may be able to justify or excuse a non-human who isn't evil.>>98244413Kino. We need more of you to immigrate.>>98244450Why are you retarded?
>>98244469>Why are you retarded?I'm not falling for it is all. I understand this slippery slope leads exactly to>but MY inherently evil race character just wants to bake cookies and bring upon an armageddon of smiles
>>98244288Yes many playgroups would do that an expect to rp as malcom x. Next thread please
>>98244316> 'Humans are prejudiced and demihumans fight against them' is pretty common in isekai/Jap fantasy too.It's a major premise in the Witcher, which isn't exactly far left. And in Warhammer, likewise. Fantasy racism is an extremely common trope in all of fantasy, because racism is a fact of human existence and authors want to explore it. It's not that complicated. >>98244341>punishing players in-game for out-of-game reasonsDo you want to know how I know you're a shit GM or, more likely, a nogame LARPer?
>>98244450I've literally stated with examples this is not at all what I meant, but it's clear you will just hear what you want to believe for some retarded reasonTouch grass anon and hope you'll get a better group
>>98244667mhm
>>98244482Yeah sure but Anon made it pretty fuckin clear he's not playing with that kind of sperg. Save it for the people who deserve it
>>98244288Traditional games?
>>98244288You know OP, you can just play Ravenloft, its full of shit like this. I've actually been playing a Tiefling on the Ravenloft NWN server of late and its been a crash course in actually using the stealth and disguise mechanics for the first time after literally years of play because up until now, I've never had a reason to. Its been a blast carefully maneuvering in such a way as to keep my identity a secret.Yes, I understand that your thread is meant to discuss your displeasure with the fact that your particular group of table-tenders is hard liberal and can't or won't handle fantasy racism in the fantasy racism zone, but as other posters ITT have already noted, its on you to get better players. Settings and lore exist for precisely this purpose and now you just need some players who are comfortable exploring dark themes. It is also true thoughever that the best way to deal with someone being inherently hostile to you is to kill them, or take away the resources that allow them to function, rather than just accept being beat down, so the proper response is usually an evil/resistance character rather than an eternal victim. If you don't have the right kind of players for those themes you want to explore, either get better players or develop a premise that expressly spells it out.>Hey, this is a campaign where all non-human races will experience extreme prejudice and you're going to have to roll with the punches on that if you want to play a non-human race, so figure out among yourselves how you want to deal with that.Its as easy as saying something like that at Session Zero. If you just want to bitch about people playing non-human characters in a fantasy game, then come out and say>This campaign is only going to feature human PCs so if that's not your thing kindly exit stage left.We have words, please fucking use them. Its a hobby that literally requires and encourages communication, just communicate your intentions like a smart person.
>>98244288Then let them? What are you bellyaching about? Roleplaying is not about pursuing the path of least resistance.
>>98244288I think the trap you've fallen into is inherently making non-humans more interesting by nature of making non-human relations the lens of your setting.If you spend a bunch of your breath talking about how orcs and goblins are perceived, you're giving them content, character arcs, melodrama and pathos. Your players are registering that as fertile ground for narrative exploration because you've made those creatures the narrative fulcrum of how your universe works.If you want people to play as humans, you'd be much, much better off describing how different human cultural groups get along with each other, rather than making them some kind of generic backdrop to set against other types of being that actually have stuff going on.
>>98244288>In this campaign's setting all human men are either killed at birth or raised as eunuch servants/slaves>All female humans are used as breeding stock by monsters and beastmen>"I want to play a human female! I want to play a human femboy! I want to play a race that looks kinda like a female human, but isn't!"Every fucking time.
>>98244648>worldbuilding is out-of-game reasonsShove it up your ass you twinkle-toed player coddling fagmaster.
I genuinely don't understand some people wanting to force human only. 99% of mass media already does this, and anytime someone wants to engage in the contrary in the place where you actually can, people whine and bitch.
>>98244288>>this setting is human-dominatedBBBBBBbbbbbbbboooooooorrrrrrriiiiiinnnnngggggg
>>98244288Your other attempt at stirring shit with the fetish shitposted copypasta was less stupid, but you should just give up. Your b8 sucks, bro.
>>98246151It does make sense from a psychological point of view as long as you look at it through a selfish lens. We physically need 99% of the human race engaged in humdrum lives and labor in order for our species to continue to exist. You can't have all Indian Chiefs and not enough Indians, all Presidents and Lawyers and no Farmers or Construction Workers. Thus, it follows that the overwhelming majority of people must be gatekept into living banal lives so that the tiny minority of exceptional (or skeezy) individuals can take up the jobs and positions (Rich, Powerful, Influential) that everybody actually wants.The part that doesn't make sense is when people try to take it into fantasy by gatekeeping what they perceive to be 'special' characters or 'snowflake' characters and concepts. Its a fantasy, it literally does not matter whether you have an all-Tiefling party because the entire exercise is just a function of imagination and none of it matters in any capacity. They could just let people have fun and play whatever, but people still feel compelled to gatekeep it so that they themselves seem more high-status or exotic.
>>98244288k
>>98244940>your thread is meant to discuss your displeasure with the fact that your particular group of table-tenders is hard liberal and can't or won't handle fantasy racism in the fantasy racism zoneIt's not meant to do this, it's meant to complain that liberals exist while fantasizing about how bad they are. OP is clearly nogames. This story didn't happen.
>>98245934I'd explain to you how your inability to communicate is an out-of-game problem, but we've already established you're poor at communicating, so I don't think I'll waste my time.
>>98246400>so I don't think I'll waste my time.And yet that is exactly what you are doing, in direct contradiction to your own condescending drivel. No wonder you're a doormat player coddler, you just like hearing yourself talk not telling a story.
>>98246434>dog coming in to show you his dead bird again
>>98244288They know what you are and are fucking with you at that point, and good on them for it.>WAHHH IM A PEABRAINED RETARD WHO BANS 99% OF THE GAMEThat's you.
>>98244288I actually agree, I've got players who do this. There are some people who are inherently contrarian. >"Magic-users are persecuted in this land">"Can I play a magic-user?"It's just the urge to be more special than others.For me, whenever possible, I like to play as someone representing the status quo because it feels more realistic. If your average young lad dreams of becoming a knight, obviously my character would want to be a knight too.If your average guy worships one particular God, logically my guy worships or at least recognizes that God too unless he's got a very strong reason not to. In a way, that can make people really squirm.
>>98246151This is because most people don't play non-humans well. They fundamentally play humans in a different outfit, so you might as well make them play "basically themselves" because that's how it's going to go down.
>>98246886Nobody can truly play them "well" though because everyone is just human in the end. Like if you're going to hold a standard of that sort you might as well disqualify the dm from roleplaying a monster as well.
OK so, OP, why did you make racism such a massive part of the setting if you didn't want the players to be part of any groups that would actually be affected by it? If you didn't want them to use these races, couldn't you just have given them a race list or said "humans only?" You just handed them a plot hook. Why the fuck are you mad that they followed it?
>>98247020OP wanted the players to be racist with him and is pissed they don't want to
>>98245128that would require OP to actually play games instead of just complaining about shit they imagined on the internet, though.
>>98244288How is that different from playing in a setting where humans are the hunted underdogs and making a human character? Just stay away from human settlements and large groups of humans, kill small groups of humans before they can kill you, and have human-passing party members infiltrate human groups.
>>98246886>They fundamentally play humans in a different outfit,That's what non-humans are in D&D, this isn't fucking Lovecraft.
>>98247478>unironically using dndogshit as a baseline for your standard
>>98247496D&D is the most widely played TTRPG in the English-speaking world, and is clearly the game the OP created. You are obviously nogames now trying to cope by saying "durr hurr D&D".
>>98246886Of course, you can't give an example of what the "right" way to play a non-human is, so you're just bitching like a woman over nothing.
>>98246886The irony is that you can apply this logic to players playing classes badly (while their character is a human), yet nobody on this forsaken board will bitch about it.
>>98247504>anything with humans and orcs can only possibly be Dungheaps and Dragqueens because... because... WELL OBVIOUSLY IT JUST IS OKAY!?!?
>>98246710>no, you see, i need to play as a 3 foot tall churlish slut goblin because that is 99% of the game
>>98248861Yes, they are all Dungeons and Dragons, that's why they are all humans and orcs. Harn, Pathfinder, Shadowdark, 13th Age, etc, are all extremely blatant D&D clones. They have the same basic features and structures which are unique to that lineage/genres of games, including nonhuman races that are just humans in a different outfit.
>>98248885>Akshually, every game ever made is le Dickheads and Dildos because... Because.... Well because I said so! You are le wrong, chud! I accept le your concession.
>>98248898No, lots of games are not D&D. They're just the games that are actually not obviously D&D, like Traveller, Blades in the Dark, Vampire: the Masquerade, Call of Cthulhu, Apocalypse World, etc. None of these games feature elves, and the ones that feature nonhuman races specifically note their inhuman psychology.You are retarded and nogames and thus have to resort to stupid posts like this because your position is indefensible.
>>98248911>You're not playing Depravity and Derangement, must be a nogames!
>>98248872>CherrypickingI accept your concession.
>>98249444At this point everyone who plays a goblin or a tiefling should be hanged. They're not even committed to the bit they just want to be different for the sake of being a pervert.
>>98248939You're not playing anything, you're just making worthless posts that clog up the board. It's obvious to everybody, spamming greentexts and meme pics doesn't change that.
Does anyone actually enjoy roleplaying Jim Crow Simulator RPG, though?
>>98244396Are you new to 4chan? A greentext rant is a perfectly cromulent way to start a thread
>>98250854Societal conditions can be fun, but like most things that make shit difficult for the PCs, the players are disinclined to ask for it.The issue I see most of the time is some GMs don't allow the PCs to alleviate the issue in any way, so its just the GM spouting fantastical racial epithets at the PCs for every NPC interaction. Or there is one PC of the favored group that gets all the societal interaction and the problem is effectively solved at character creation.
>>98244288>my setting is bad and doesn't make sensethat sounds great, can I play a minotaur?
>>98244288Either drop your nuts and ban races you don't want in your game or kowtow to playerscum consensus like the beholden little nugamer "DM" you are.
>mfw the players interact with the setting I've created
>>98246473NTA i dont get what this is supposed to mean.
Just stop saying "persecuted" or "prejudiced". It's literally that simple. Nobody questions why dragons in my game are ravenous and unintelligent because they just "are" I dont begin every campaign with>ok look, dragons are actually different in my campaign, they dont think like humans so you cant roll to seduce them
>>98255631Actually a good idea and reasonable suggestion wtf am I still on 4chan
Fake story aside, a lot of this is a mix of being a contrarian + a GM focusing on something so naturally it will attract players. You could see the same thing happen and it DOES happen, its why guys like me end up making Human Fighters to even out the party of magic troll dolls. If your setting has a strongly defined 'other', then it make sense players would be interested.The problem happen when:-Everyone is trying to ape this, instead of being the interesting unique viewpoint character who brings the enemy/other's view to the table, like being the one heroic orc who is still ruthless or the one non magic human-It can easily become an excuse to be a special snowflake-Modern society inherently place strength, uniqueness and agency on what is weird/deviant/different, irrelevant if the person who belongs to a so-called othered group is actually a skilled and interesting person or a fucking waste of oxygen. In the latter case, they are 'speshull' just for existing as opposed to being someone who is different but nonetheless has something worthwhile to their existence
