How did you meet your local gamestore lolcow? My friend met ours looking at some new 40k releases when this guy(We'll call him Kat) walked up to him and started talking about 40k, and then proceeded to sperg about his 40k homebrew race of mary sue cat people. My friend for some unknown reason, let him continue to talk to him, even after he had sat down to paint at the community painting desk. Apparently the guys parents drop him off at the LGS on certain days and just leave him there most of the day. He's 27, cant drive, never had a job, and from what interactions I've had with him Kat's super autistic but obviously not retarded or incapable of improvement. My friend gave him contact info, I think because he felt bad, and from there it's been one continuous line of shenanigans from Kat. I could share more, Kat has done a lot of bullshit, but really I wanna hear your alls unfortunate run ins with LGS lolcows.
Can't even Chris Chan drive?
I am the lolcow. I have no social skills and always say the wrong thing and no one likes me and I smell.
>>98246932Chris' car license plate was "famously" SONCHU so yeahHe also ran over a guy and called him a Jew
Our LGS lolcow is BrandonBrandon is 400 pounds, wears the same navy blue sweatpants, t-shirt and sandals every day. His clothes are covered in stains and he is covered in grease and sweat. He shows up to every weekend with a pizza or two and 2 liter bottle of pepsi.He is a smug asshole, ontop of it all. The LGS owner refuses to ban him despite numerous complaints because he spends so much on MTG bullshit
>>98246819>Apparently the guys parents drop him off at the LGS on certain days>He's 27, cant driveHe's like me too
>>98247097Isn't that the average MTG player
Im 38 and can't drive but its for medical reasons. Unlike most of the people at my LGS I fuck (troons I meet at the 717 but it still counts) and I am not lacking in social skills.
Obligatory
>>98247097The worst part about Kat is he looks completely normal, you would never guess he had a furry muscle growth fetish from the looks of him. Brandon at least looks the part from the sounds of it.
>>98246819I’d like to hear more.>27 and can’t driveLiterally me.I’ve generally been using the bus and procrastinated on getting a license. I need to change that.I’ve had jobs before.But I’m dangerously close and worried about being the store’s lolcow if I’m being honest.>Chris Chan opI wonder what Chris Chan would be like in getting into 40k. Not sure what his dimensional merge autism would make him out to be.
>>98247212 (me)What really makes lgs owners finally ban lolcows who have deep pockets of cash?>>98247073Also me. We can suffer together.
>>98247073>>98247110>>98247212>>98247225Realizing that you're a failure disqualifies you from being a lolcow. If actual attention and trolling would drive you to suicide, you're not a lolcow.
>>98246819If you visit a ‘LGS’ you’re a lolcow
>>98246932>>98247095He was going to take it to Dashcon I believe, driving from RUCKERSVILLE to Oregon, then he completed his Love Quest with Barbie-Chan. I sometimes think of Null telling him he's gonna have to sleep in the car, look up at the stars, and think about what his had done. Makes me chuckle.
>>98247212To start with he hates grimdark, and most of the 40k lore. Kat gave his mary sue cat furries a gravity weapon that can destroy hive cities, all because he doesn't like them. He also doesn't even play the game, the one time my friend tried to get him to play he barely interacted and in the final 45 minutes was on his phone with his heaphones on.
>>98247212>>98247596I also forgot to mention that Kat has a complete disregard for social etiquitte, he'll refuse to shake hands, lay his head down at the table while everyone is trying to roleplay, and the best part is he refuses to tell anyone his real name. Apparently thats too personal, but sending ai generated art of his fursona and fetish character is not. Attached is his fursona, bastard couldn't even be bothered to commission an artist.it's getting late for me, I'll tell more if the thread is still up in the morning.
>>98247596>>98247606Damn son I am morbidly curious now.Have you tried explaining to him social etiquette? Has anyone tried?
>>98247377That's like saying "she drowned, so she wasn't was a witch". There have been lolcows who killed themselves or have become depressed over their state
>>98247507Dashcon happened after he completed his love quest, he lost it to a hooker like 15 years ago
>>98247166story behind the pic?
>>98246819got this autist dude here in TX who plays at the LGS a bit but hes a weird sperg-out type that no one likes. According to more than one person he sent his dad to prison when he was like 25, because he found out his dad had kidnapped him (birth dad tho?).Hes thrown multiples tantrums over 40k and transformers and mlp and wrestling and hes got this other guy who follows him around like a henchman.
>>98247854It just looks like every 40k player to me.
>>98247854He raped me
Is being a meek quiet loser autist that's creepy to be near better than being a loud low inhibition overly confident autist Both are bad obviously, but what if you're autistic and don't have a choice
>>98247960im the latter and I get pussy and have fun so YMMV
>>98247995then you're not like Chris or the aforementioned LGS cows itt
>>98248052that question seemed independent of OP, tbdesu
>>98246819I remember this freak showed up to my LGS wearing a unicorn horn like he was a My little pony character and trying to sell some cards
>>98248188which shoppe?
My LGS has had many lolcows>bearded autistic guy who wore cat ear headphones who asked to join our D&D game thinking it was Adventurers League. We let him join as a guy we rescued in the dungeon. Demanded a golden statuette as treasure, added it to his character sheet, then after that session he never returned. DM retconned him out of it. Pretty sure his mom drove him to the store. >guy who had tears in his eyes while his dwarf paladin was slaughtered by vampire spawn in Curse of Strahd adventurers league session over several turns. >another clearly autistic guy who came up to us after Bernard Hill died and said "did you guys hear the actor who played Theoden died?" in the middle of our D&D game. We all loved LotR so of course we say yeah, that was really sad news. Dude said "you know what I say to that? Hail the victorious dead!". Kinda touching but for some reason it made me cringe hard. Even moreso cause 5 minutes later we heard him say the same thing, word-for-word, to a group of randoms who had just entered the store.
>>98247944this. He’s the definitive 40k consoomer retard
>>98247110>I fuck (troonsDoesn't count. This is like saying you fuck hookers.
>>98246932I mean, that's sort of the irony of Chris Chan. As a Xennial he still got to do some things that an equivalently fucked up Zillennial or Zoomer wouldn't because of anxiety, the loss of third spaces, worsening economic conditions etc. He drove, went to community college, walked around the local mall etc. Kinda similarly, if you're a Millennial without a family, how are you better off than Chris, exactly? You got laid a few more times, sure. But you slaved away at work... so you could chill at home and play vidya and eat goyslop? Chris got to do that free. Every single day. He never had to job-hunt during the Great Recession. Kowtow before the HR Matriarchy at a white collar job or jack up his back at a blue collar one. He's an Ubermensch.
It's kinda interesting how much dysfunction was tolerated back in the day. Nowadays there are tons of normie and normie-passing gamers and of course you don't want back reviews on social media so the worst people are asked to shower or leave. But back then the neckbeards had free reign because they were spending so much money. Anyways, in the 2000's at our Midwestern LGS we had two lolcows. The first was a fat guy with tourette's who was also a compulsive liar. He would start twitching and spitting if you argued with him. He said that his dad was a general in Desert Storm and his mom was an MI6 spy. He said that he rode the bus because a drunk guy crashed into his Ferrari. He only played MtG and other card games but he'd waddle over to the 40K tables and tell us about how he had this massive tyranid army at home that would totally destroy ours if he deigned to bring it in, which he never did. He spent time in prison for raping his 12 yo cousin and he's homeless now.The other guy would compulsively cheat. Changing around his magic item selections, rerolling dice if he thought you weren't looking, and "forgetting" the misfires/malfunctions of the various Skaven units. We had a pretty healthy WHFB scene at the time and the tourney organizers would pair him against the most grizzled grognards to keep him honest. Eventually he jumped over to 40K which had a bigger scene and was more tolerant of neckbeardery. He liked to wander into the backroom where RPG players played and give unasked for advice to the groups. He also got a hooker to take his virginity on his 30th birthday and came into the LGS to tell us about it like it was something to be proud of.
>>98247743I figured his parents or siblings would have, but any talk on his home life makes it clear his parents never pushed him to do anything he doesn't want to do and it shows. Deviate from his special interest, criticism on his wacky ass worldbuilding, or even encouraging that he improve himself all cause him to shut down into 1 word responses. He's worse in person, he'll cut you off mid sentence, refuse to shake hands, and if your trying to talk to him sometimes he'll just stare off into space. The worst thing he did socially irl is when a friend at the table who was disabled due to a foot injury dropped his dice on the floor by accident. They landed next to Kats feet, who refused to pick them up, and when confronted that it was rude to force a cripple who can't walk to bend down and pick something up, he responded that he was a germaphoebe. He then said that the crippled friend was unclean and he had no idea where he had been, after the whole party stared at him, he simply shrugged his shoulders and said the truth hurt. For reference, my crippled friend isn't a trog by any measure, and took great measures in keeping up with his personal care despite his injury. Kat was the closest person next to him, and in 5 seconds could have picked up the dice and handed it over without being an ass. The worst part is after the session I asked him if we could speak privately, and instead of saying sure, he asks like a scolded child "am I in trouble?" in this whiny voice.
>>98248902As much as I hate to admit it, I think hobby spaces opening up to normies does have its upsides. It's nice to have more opponents for card and tabletop games that aren't maladjusted pricks.
>>98248834If you have not fucked a troon half your age while they are wearing a tiny chastity cage you arnt even trying to have sex.
>>98246819Our lolcow was banned for life for trying to hit on on the twelve year old daughter of the LGS owner.
>>98249041Did she look older than 12 or was the lolcow just a creep?
>>98249074>>98249041I ask because I once hit on a 16yo but I had no idea she was 16, I just saw her huge tits and assumed she was in her early 20s.
At my original LGS that I worked at we had a MTG/Pokemon judge couple which were freaks. The wife looked like she was the crypt keeper with one of those long fleshy turkey sacks under her neck. The husband was this 8 foot tall fat weirdo that would meow and wear cat ears. We had to call the cops on the husband, because during a Pokemon release event he lured a 6 year old into the bathroom to molest him. The wife was furious at us for calling the cops and said she'd make sure we couldn't run events anymore. The owner had been trying to get rid of them anyway, because the wife was selling products we also sold out of the back of her car and was telling customers to not buy from us and instead from her out in the parking lot.The LGS I've been going to since I moved has this troon which usually I don't care about, but this one became a troon out of spite. He stank so bad and the owners put up a sign about customers needing to practice hygiene, so out of spite this loser says he's trans and that this is discrimination. He actually went through with the surgery too and he got massive tits. So imagine picrel but with beachballs under his Hatsune Miku croptop and he smells like rotting fishing. So the staff can't do anything because they are afraid of a lawsuit for discrimination and this guy shows up every day. He just sits in the back playing the MLP card game by himself and if he wants to buy anything he tries to sell the store Yugioh cards they don't want. My interactions with him have been limited, but I did play against him at a One Piece release when that game was still pretty new and this fucker also meows! Every time he drew a card, played a card, or attacked with a card he'd meow. So he might be the son from the first two people I mentioned.
>>98249127There was a guy at my 40k club who went trans so he could claim to be a victim all the time.
>>98249041>>98249074No, she looked very obviouly like a kid. Apparently when he was alone with her (the owner stupidly did left her "in charge" of the store often) he straight up told her that he was in love with her and wanted her to be his girlfriend. She told her dad and of course he was furious and told him to never show up again or he will kick his ass.
>>98249127Its like being a troon is a mental disorder and the best case scenario its just symptom.>>98249157LGS also had their incidents with random "clients" molesting children and women. I remember it happening since the last century.
>>98249157In my country the age of consent is 16 and its not uncommon for a 16yo to use older men for money or drugs. Is that not a thing in the states?
>>98249177Like most things in gringo land, it depends on the state and how much political power you have.But hey even my third world country has teenagers asking adults for stuff. Some are to embarrassed or retarded to ask for free condoms or abortion pill in the public hospital and such ask random strangers to buy it for them. Or it was that way decades ago, now with so much illegal migration I assume that all children approaching me want to rob me or murder me
>>98247095>CWC's countersemitic hit-and-run escapadeBased.
Friend of OP here, speaking on Kat, one of the worst things he does is use various media, like 40k, for set dressing for his OC race, which wouldn't be too bad it he actually engaged with 40k.
>>98250282An example of this is him simply shutting down when I asked how his OC race would fight off an invasion of World Eaters into their space, and he simply calmed up or said 'i haven't thought about that yet'.
>>98250292Clammed up*
>>98249144That post makes me wonder how many neckbeards just put on a “feminine blackface” just to go on a victimhood styled powertrip at the lgs or in other /tg/ nerd spaces.
>>98250282>Friend of OP here Fuck off to your discord.
>>98249177In most US states the age of consent is also 16, and yes occasionally girls of that age will try to get older guys to get stuff for them. But the post you are replying to mentioned the game store daughter being twelve, which makes a huge difference for most people. Pretty sure an adult hitting on a twelve year old (that looks their age) is considered creepy almost everywhere. Anyways, getting back on topic, my LGS has the milk guy. Dude literally brings in a cooler with a gallon of milk in it, and drinks from it while he plays. Says he drinks like 2 gallons a day. Also can't or won't drive, so he walks several miles to the store and back, which I guess burns the milk calories off, he is only mildly overweight. Overall he is not too bad at least, is at least functional autistic in conversations.
>>98250726based milkchad
>>98250726I drink 1L of milk per day when I am working out. I got the idea after reading Caesar's Conquests In Gaul where he described the large German warriors getting half their daily calories from milk. Don't know if it's true or he made it up , but i've put on 20lbs of muscle since I started doing it (a few years ago).
>>98250726I was just curious because I was wondering if it was like an angelina jolie situation where she looked like an adult woman at 14.
>>98249041is she hot?
>>98249177it its. I was buying alcohol for, and getting head from, ugly high school goth chicks for years and im in my thirties
>>98250824who cares
>>98247916...is this in waco?
>>98247166The purple hair on a fat hairy basedmouthing neckbeard is so fucking repulsive.
>>98249127>He just sits in the back playing the MLP card game by himselfme btw
>>98246819My store doesn't have lolcows because we're normal people that don't abuse disabled people.
>>98246819>>98250282>Friend of OP hereYou guys are fags
>>98251049How did you meet them and how did you do it?
>>98246819>his 40k homebrew race of mary sue cat peopleAre you sure they were his homebrew? There's a mary sue cat race that has infested pretty much every TTRPG and many other related fandoms for years. Can't remember the name but I know 1d4chan or whatever it is now has an article.
>>98246819>Apparently the guys parents drop him off at the LGS on certain days and just leave him there most of the day. He's 27, cant drive, never had a job, and from what interactions I've had with him Kat's super autistic but obviously not retarded or incapable of improvement.Ngl this sounds dangerously close to being meat least I go to Uni and have had jobs before
>>98250811GOMAD's been a lifter meme diet for a long time.https://insidebodybuilding.com/the-history-of-the-gomad-diet/
>>98253089Or maybe it was that guy all along
>>98246819>40k homebrew race of mary sue cat peopleSo, is it you that wasn't aware that 40k actually has that already, or was he so unsatisfied that he made his own anyway?>>98253089Carlos McConnell
>>98248840>how are you better off than ChrisI haven't spent my life gangstalked by middle schoolers who fed into my delusions of T[r]oontown and my name and image aren't internet shorthand for the absolute worst depths of autism
Apropos of nothing if you haven't seen an LGS regular in a few months/years, Google their name. It's a high-mortality lifestyle. Heart attacks and cancer in guys who are only in their 40's-60's. Lots of suicides. One of our local guys, a 40K regular and Ebay scalper, was posting on Facebook about all the weird visions he experienced as his organs failed. We also had a regular who looked like picrel from Game of Thrones but he trooned out and roped a couple years ago. Just seemed so senseless, in a sane world he'd have been Peter Steel-maxxing and slaying goth pussy.
>>98247095Was he actually a Jew?
>>98246819Tamgentially related but I'd been going to the same lgs for 3-4 years, as someone who wasn't really into this kind of "geeky" stuff as a kid and thus had very little experience. All the guys there were perfectly functioning members of society, at worst a little reserved which is totally fine. So for years I assumed the greasy neckbeard stereotype was just some outdated thing from the 80's or whatever that just kind of stuck around because of cultural inertia.But then I moved, and my new lgs has a very big card game population and just about every other guy there looks and acts exactly like the stereotype. Was quite the culture shock to find out that these kind of people not only actually existed, but were also pretty common in some places.
>>98254419Could be. Snyder/Schneider just means "tailor". Both Ashkies and non-Ashkies have it since it was a common job. You really have to feel for the guy though. Imagine all the horror of a normal retail job(cleaning toilets etc) and on job of that you have to be a tard-wrangler and get calls from parents angry that some weird grown man screamed at their kid over a card game. "The customer is always right" mindset was still huge in the 2000's and it was pretty rare to see people get banned from stores.
>>98253089No, they're homwbrew to my knowledge. He called them pantherans, and made them knock off T'au that control there own little empire and have uber powerful weapons.
>>98254182I know that the imperium has felinids, but they're just abhumans. These guys were made as a whole other species so that the guy can presumably shoe horn in his fursona to 40k.
>>98247854There is none, that anon just looks for every excuse to spam that pic.
i am the store's lolcow; doesn't help that i'm also employed by said store
>>98254790Why do you think you're the lolcow?
>>98254357Tell me about it man. The guy from my high school who was a cool guitar player with hot ass girlfriend who sang in our band, became a tranny 10 years later. He asked me if I thought he was more masculine or feminine over a Faceberg message and I said "idk man you seem pretty masculine to me" but I hadn't talked to the guy in years. Idk if I could've saved him. Also the girl he dated shaved her head and became a dyke. At least she isn't fat so still salvageable. They could've been a nice white family now.
>>98255385I feel like troons and LGBTQLMNOP ideology as a whole has obliterated the idea of the Weird Couple. Everyone that would have turned into an Addams family or hippie couple 30 years ago has been too brain-blasted into having open relationships and trooning out. The weird goth family down the street that gives out the best candy on Halloween and blasts rock music on the weekend and is just cool in general will be a thing of the past.
>>98255178i'm the fat weird guy, who's almost 30 but lives with his parents and can't drive a car, who's been a drunkard since 2016, who has yellow teeth and bags under his eyes
>>98255502>almost 30 but lives with his parentsNothing wrong with that, times are hard>can't drive a carStart learning now while you have access to your parents car. This becomes a lot harder when you live on your own.>been a drunkard since 2016Cut back, even just a little. Your health and appearance will improve right away, even if you're just cutting down a few drinks.NEVER kill yourself NEVER give up.
>>98255470Yeah almost everyone I know in TTRPGs is either a permavirgin or in a polycule. It's insane. I'm the only straight one. At least the boomer group I play with is normal.
>>98255502That's not even a lolcow. Just learn how to drive even if you don't get a car having a license is a major flexibility option. Drink less. Don't kys. Sorry but you don't qualify as a lolcow you gotta do some more retarded shit than that to qualify.
>>98255538That's kinda crazy honestly. Are these IRL friends or internet friends?
>>98255599Real life. One couple that's an MTF dating a woman. Both asexual. And I thought the woman was also trans for years so...make of that what you will. Three or four permavirgins. One guy who shares his wife with other men and gets assfucked by her boyfriends. One guy who hasn't come out yet but plays nothing but female chatacters so pretty sure he's trans Another guy married to an FTM trannyThat's between a couple groups with some overlap. By the way, none of these people were like this when I met them. Awkward and weird yeah but this tranny shit was a slow and insidious social contagion.
>>98255692That's pretty bleak Anon I feel for you. VERY thankful so few of my friends got into that stuff. I think it's good you've kept up tje friendships, though. Someone has to be the normal one.
>>98255532>Nothing wrong with that, times are hardfigured so; i could ask the state for grants and get enough money to afford a flat with roomates>Start learning now while you have access to your parents car. This becomes a lot harder when you live on your own.looks a lot like this; but i don't trust myself behind a wheel until i'm months sober>Cut back, even just a little. Your health and appearance will improve right away, even if you're just cutting down a few drinks.NEVER kill yourself NEVER give up.i need to cut it out; entirely, it's destroying me and has destroyed my social life several times over
I don't have anything like this at my LGS. A few socially awkward guys and some people who can't contain their anger when they lose in a card game, but no troons or faggots. If there are any gays then they do a good job of hiding it.
>>98255780Cutting alcohol specificially is VERY hard to do cold turkey. Not saying you can't handle doing that, but if it's a challenge weening yourself off slowly might work better.
>>98255948it's a fucking nightmare; i've tried several times; got in clinics; got in hospitals; managed tu cut it off for 4 months at best and that shit haunt me still
>>98247507I don't know that he actually fucked Barb. The only evidence we have is his own testimony, after all, and we know him to be a delusional fabulist.
>>98254769I am pretty sure that guy beat anon and he has been rage posting that picture ever since.
>>98246819When I worked in a game store in the 90s, a morbidly obese homeless guy named Durk would come bother us every day. he was 7 feet tall and about 500 pounds. We banned him at first for sweating on the glass too much when he leaned on it, imagine translucent grease, that was the thickness of it. Had to use the sink cleanser to get it up.He came to a warhammer game with a "tyranid" army that was all dead cockroaches and other insects sealed and painted on. he was a freak. He finally got a lifetime ban for destroying the toilet , and then he'd just hang out at a nearby coffee shop and bother other customers as they went in and out, begging for a game to join.
>>98256036You don't have the resistance gene. You have to quit or you will fucking die. The reason this gene even exists at all is the countless millions of humans alcohol annihilated before it propagated. Think about that. You have zero poison resistance and are drinking poison. Thats the gravity of it.
>>98255720Yeah they are fun but we no longer share the same values so I have other friends for that. I still chat with them and do fun stuff with them but it'll always be more distant now. Kinda sad but that's how it is.
>>98256036You have to do it, man. My uncle died of liver failure for this exact reason. He even managed to quit, once. He actually got sober after years of hard work, and then he went on a trip to France with my dad and their other brother, and my dad and the other brother couldn't stop drinking wine at the table. So he fell off the wagon, and he was dead less than 10 years later. He never got to meet his grandkids.tl;dr you need a sponsor.
>>98248840i would agree wholeheartedly before he fucked his mom that's just too fucking deranged an experience to wish on anyone
>>98248902That first guy deserves to be homeless for that.The other guy is a just a broken sperg but he seems harmless at the lgs as he seems to only make himself look like a fool.>hooker to take virginity at 30 and brag about itI mean I’m not one to talk about virginity loss as I’m being 3 birthdays from 30 year old wizard hood. I just think the bragging part is just sad. >that picWe need more funny lgs reviews made by spergs that have received the boot out.>>98248840Chris was living the dream in a weird way until he went after his mom allegedly.I often see Chris as the harbinger of things to come in an exaggerated manner. Along with being a “satirical mirror” of whatever opinions and media he is most exposed to.If Chris gets into Warhammer 40k it will be a sign of terrible things to come for 40k for real this time just two more weeks.I can imagine that whatever Chris does in getting into 40k it will make autists “correct him” about 40k lore inaccuracies and because they may not be genuine trolling they’ll probably hit Chris harder than actual trolling.
A story from the long ago. Not mine.
>>98246819There's this freak show who likes to go by the name Horus. He likes to rant and rave about his ideas being Superior while never playing a TT RPG. He loves to go ranting and raving about how bad 5e is. But refuses to ever put anything into stone with his own games. He is such a wishy-washy sometimes maybe down that is quite ridiculous. The torture goblin has such constant schizophrenic meltdown that we have a special room in the local game store called the schizo den. A small little 10x10 room so we can push the retards in there and let them all have their psychotic meltdowns. Did I mention that he's psychotically occasionally talks to a notepad called notepad Anon.
>>98257911Hey you leave notepad anon out of this.
>>98254528>>98254419He is not.CWC just assumed that Schneider is a jewish surname and rolled with it.
>>98247606Commissioning an artist for a TTRPG has got to be the most cucked thing you can do.
>>98258905Eh, I tipped a starving artist I know for a character portrait and I think that worked out fine, you sound poor
>>98258905>exchanging money for goods and services is cucked.Baffling take.The only way this isn't immensely cringe is if you're advocating for people making their own art.
>>98257445Ngl kind of retarded of your dad and older uncle
>>98255599The people and friends that I know that still play RPG. Are either some LGTVHD4k and/or some level of commie delusional.Regular folks that used to play RPG; I can count with the fingers of one hand.
>>98256036Accept that the fun has largely stopped, its diminishing returns now, accept that it wasn’t all bad but that you’re done, then ‘quit and consider yourself retired from drinking.You don’t need to wait for a rock bottom. And don’t try to entertain any stupid systems of ‘no drinking on week days’ or ‘never alone’ or ‘only light beer’ or whatever - it always fails. Simple abstinence works better than merticulois moderation.t. 4 and half years sober
>>98255502>who's almost 30 but lives with his parentsHaving your own home by 18 is a historical anomaly. Most of human history people have live in multigenerational homes. Where your grand parent would live along your wife, and your kid's kids.
