This was silver at 2005 US Golden Demon.We must low the standars again and make painting MINIATURES for mediocre people, not just influencers or professional artist. Today, I see better painted single miniatures, but much less full painted armies. People is discouraged, they buy a box, try to emulate the new insanely high standar that influencers put and stop after 1-3 models feeling like shit.We must make less detailed models.We must stop this scalecreep BS.We must go back to heroic scale, realism looks bad and sucks for wargaming.We must gatekeep the hobby from mediocre professional painters abusing this niche and influencers/redditors.
OP is probably a schizo but he's goddamn rightI would rather see a hundred armies that look like this, a hobbyist's pleasure, than a single Slayer Sword winning NMM shite I know people want to "get better" but I think most people are watching Spanish competition painters on Youtube, when they should be watching people like Duncan and Sonic Sledgehammer do basecoats, washes and a highlight.
>>98248614Gorgeous army.10/10. Can't be improved. And yes, I'm a schizo.
>>98248607>weWhy do "we" have to do anything?Why should I care if some retards get discouraged by sloptubers?
>>98248701Because they are destroying the game scene indirectly with this.This is not like videogames, you can't be an individualistic retard here.
serious question: is pic related peak soul or borderline try hard? asking for a friend
A friend of mine actually won a Golden Demon from that era.This was way back when we were in high school. He was a small, quiet kid, the kind everyone overlooked, and we were friends largely because I was an awkward troublemaker and he was the kind of guy who was nice to everyone.One day during art class, while discussing painting he casually mentioned he won a Golden Demon for some LotR miniatures. I only vaguely knew what a Golden Demon was because I had seen some winners in Dragon Magazine, but I reacted to the news like it was a big deal in order to seem like I knew more about it then I actually did, as kids tend to do. He seemed incredibly excited that someone else knew what a Golden Demon was.The next day, he brought in the Golden Demon trophy along with a magazine showing photos of his miniatures, and my honest reaction to the photos was mild disappointment because they were all painted very... correctly. I still heaped praise on the guy, but back then I didn't really understand how big a deal a Golden Demon was beyond vague recognition. I didn't even know enough about painting to appreciate the talent that earned him that win.Now, looking back, it was probably one of the bigger achievements from anyone in our school, and something no one had heard about. He just quietly won. It's kind of amazing, because everyone would hear about if some kid won a local talent show or scored a game-winning home run in some game that didn't end up mattering, and he won a Golden Demon and didn't even get a 100% genuine "That's really awesome!"
>>98248769In model painting there is no such thing as try hard
>>98248607>Today, I see better painted single miniatures, but much less full painted armies.Describe the five most recent locations and/or events you traveled to in-person, allowing you to actually see things. Or do you only see through the internet?
>>982486144chan autocontrarian retvrndation is a hell of a drug, because eventually you get to a place like this>We have to save the hobby by purposely making it objectively worse
>>98248707>you can't be an individualistic retard here.Oh, of course you can. Solo games exist, and even GW has recognised this by adding solo and coop modes to kill team already.
In 2011 you could buy facebook stock or bitchoin and get richstart a youtube channel reviewing videogames from the 1970s as a salty 35yo gen xer and make bank'learn to code' and be scooped up by a big tech company'start a business' right ouf of highschool with your budsbe one of the first twitch thots doing titty streamshop on tinder and play the field beforei t was coolThe problem is that you're not just older and thus possibilities seem more realistic and thus limited, but the reality is that every field like Miniature Painting his highly saturated with Juan El Famoso and The Dirty Daemonhost Painting doing some crazy ass diorama that looks like a necron slurping the juices out of gulliman while everything is shiny and there are even little led lights so the eyes light up that required 100 hours of carefully threading tiny lights into the necron's head and holowing out the body with out destroying it.Everything is just too saturated.>>98248772>Now, looking back, it was probably one of the bigger achievements from anyone in our school, and something no one had heard about. He just quietly won. It's kind of amazing, because everyone would hear about if some kid won a local talent show or scored a game-winning home run in some game that didn't end up mattering, and he won a Golden Demon and didn't even get a 100% genuine "That's really awesome!"Yes life is awful and full of disappointment and you're constantly told that geniuses, well connected rich kids and other people exist all around you but neither you, your friends or your extended family have ever met them and the closest that you come to it is meeting a chick who brags that she was married adn then divorced before she turned 27 and her parents gave her a 70k loan for a house because their 401k was doing so well and this is apparently an achievement for Gen YZers.
So like, do you think we should break people's hands if they get too good or what? Are you gonna turn up at Richard Grey's house with a hammer and tell him it's either his fingers or his family? Miniature painting has evolved into its own art form and niche within the hobby, and a lot of people, myself included, happen to really enjoy it. Get over yourself and lrn 2 paint (or hire someone who actually enjoys doing it for a commission)
>>98248794The guy is a stupid faggot who lives through the internet, but can't even do that correctly or thoroughlyIf he went to a hobby store every night of the week he would see dozens of mundanely-painted armies. In fact, this number and the number of near-fully-painted armies has risen dramatically in the years since contrast paint releasedBeyond that, there are no shortage of youtube/painting channels that actually paint simply and unambitiously. Mountainside Tabletop is one of the bigger Kill Team channels and they're technically-unskilled vibes-based painters. A guy like Goobertown Hobbies is a medium-skill painter who could never win a comp. There are dozens or hundreds of people playing games featuring or doing tutorials for mid quality paintjobs.
>>98248607I agree, something that was very important for me was realising that perfection is worthless and wonkyness doesnt matter, especially with freehanding. I think the quality of camera's has induced this problem. Every youtube video has an extreme close up of the mini on one of those rotating disks which allows you to see up a models anus. But in play you see models on the table from much farther away which hide a lot of details and mistakes. I personally find a lot of newer minis to be too busy, a kind of overload of colour and greeble which just create noise.
>>98248809The standard for competition painting has risen naturally over time as more and more advanced techniques and methods are discovered, and this is somehow a bad thing or something you can reverse. Like I paint to a pretty good tabletop standard and have nowhere near the talent a lot of other painters do, but that still doesn't mean I can't enjoy their works on their own or as a nice aspirational thing
>>98248794>So like, do you think we should break people's hands if they get too good or what?A good start. If that doesn't learn 'em we could progress to blinding or amputation. In fact there's an idea - instead of winning a Slayer Sword, faggoty poofters who say things like "painting miniatures is an art form" who submit entries with 5 gorillion layers of glazing to what is supposed to be a fun little sideshow at a Gamesday should instead be violently attacked *with* the Slayer Sword.
I see plenty of dogshit minis at my lgs. I don’t want to see more in a goddamn painting competition.
>>98248793It's your own fault by getting influenced so much by other people's work, locking your brain in a constant state of competition. I have a job, and also several other hobbies, so why would I even bother? I'm happy with my slap chop+ marine juice models and by painting that way I can realistically finish a squad of troops in a week if I find enough time to paint a couple of times. Its relaxing and I have plenty of painted minis to play games with. What else would I even want from this hobby? Maybe you should ask yourself what you want from this hobby. If you figure out that it does make you unhappy, maybe it's simply time to move on?
>>98248794>Are you gonna turn up at Richard Grey's house with a hammer and tell him it's either his fingers or his family? Why not?
>>98248707What do I care about some """scene"""?>you can't be an individualistic retard here.Why not?
You guys should join some of the bigger boomer groups on Facebook. Warhammer related, but also stuff like bolt action, warlord games, wargames Atlantic. You will see truly horrific miniatures all the times. Tons of armies, painted like a 3yo did it, but it's all grown up men.
>>98249272Problem is those men don't even play or care about the hobby, they just got divorce raped and are coping painting some miniatures they had from they childhood in their parents house.
>sees a well painted miniature>first instinct is to tear down the better artist, not become better himselfngmi niggait's not hard to paint to a decent standard if you apply yourself
>>98249287>painting little toys>artistYou are the problem. Painting models is something done to make the game more appealing, any paintjob that requires you to be closer than 24" to appreciate it is just masturbation. I'm not interested in seeing you jack off, bud.
There's been skill creep, but that's mostly because the painting technologies are better/cheaper. I will make an argument, however, that in the last five years or so, every GD entry looks the same. It's devastatingly formulaic.
>>98249299Playing the game is jacking off. Not only is it jacking off it's jacking off with a same-sex partner, you queer. If you weren't in it for masturbatory outcomes you would read history or read fiction.
I think warhammer players struggle with painting, expectations and standards due to the nature of most warhammer games. They're skirmish based so every mini is individually based and there's more focus on every mini. With mass battle games you can get away with basecoat, shading and a highlight with sheer mass overpowering the viewer. The minis in the image are 28mm.
>>98249344It also does not help that models have so much detail that you can't simply paint them in the same color as the rest because even at a distance they look odd.
>>98249350Because as I said, these fuckers are destroying the hobby, and now Janes Wokeshop makes miniautes for display, not for playing.They have TOO MUCH DETAIL.They are TOO BIG.They are TOO REALISTIC.There are TOO MANY CENTER PIECES.It sucks. They make minis basically for infuencers. Most people don't paint their minis, just consoom.Piles of shame are bigger than ever, even with contrast (which are great).
>>98249283Not really.
>>98249471>They have TOO MUCH DETAIL.Feel free to ignore it? You can totally paint trim and other parts of the armor in the same colour. >They are TOO BIG.Easier to paint - also you could just use older, smaller miniatures, paint dwarfs or guard>They are TOO REALISTIC.Yeah, the totally realistic Primaris marines and all the other stuff GW releases. soooo realistic, its hard to tell that its actual sci-fi.>There are TOO MANY CENTER PIECES.Buy more troop boxes?>Piles of shame are bigger than everBecause peoples incomes are big. Buying is quicker than painting. Always has been, and lets not pretend historical gamers, scale modellers, train modellers, gundam modellers or Lego collectors do not have gigantic piles of shame too.
>>98248769I dunno what your buzzwords mean anymore but looks perfectly fine to put on the table.
>>98248791>Solo gamesKill yourself, pathetic loser.
>>98249625Solo games are super comfy and certainly an option if there are too many spergs at the local club or store, or if there is no local place to play at all.
Surely the same can be said of literally any hobby. Athletes routinely break world records in every sport, every year. Chess players are competing at higher levels than their previous generations - Bobby Fischer was a genius chess player, perhaps the greatest of all time, but he would lose badly to Magnus Carlsen. Muhammad Ali would lose badly to prime Mike Tyson, similarly. Every hobby, sport, and discipline is subject to this effect. People simply get better over time, regardless of whether it's a physical, intellectual, or artistic activity. I don't know what causes this, but it seems to be a law of the world. That's not to say that anyone ought to be discouraged. Most painters are plain bad and a trip to your flgs will confirm this. Letting the highest skilled painters set the standard will just bum you out - decent is good. The best lesson you can learn in life is how low the bar really is for most things.
>>98249471You conjured up a false history for yourself, as fake and wrong and misinformed as everything else you shat out of your heart itt.GW does not make miniatures for influencers to display. The increased detail was a result of digital sculpting at first, and then contrast paint applicability second. ESL ignoramus.
>>98249562>>Piles of shame are bigger than ever>Because peoples incomes are big. Buying is quicker than painting. Always has been, and lets not pretend historical gamers, scale modellers, train modellers, gundam modellers or Lego collectors do not have gigantic piles of shame too.No, this is actually not why. It's because they release an order of magnitude more of product (SKUs) now than they ever did before.
>>98249562Retard.Consoom and watch youtube videos with 36 steps for one color.
>>98249562>Don't even knows the difference between realistic and heroic scale.Kek
>>98249723Skill issue
>>98249654I worked 4 years at GW.GW makes most of his money from consoomers who can't even finish a combat patrol box and competitive grey tiders.Both of these potential clients proliferated because of social media.
>>98249666>It's because they release an order of magnitude more of product (SKUs) now than they ever did beforeOf course they do - but people buy it, because they can afford it. And they can afford more than they can realistically build and paint. FOMO and the tendency to have boxes upon boxes of unbuilt/unpainted stuff is not exclusive to Warhammer, and has very little to do with GWs release cycle. Hoarding is just something a certain type of people likes to do. You can find influencers with large "collections" of unused shoes, or basecaps.. women with entire rooms full of clothes they never wore once etc.
>>98249743You mean you stood at a cash register for 4 years? Probably pre-9/11?
>>98249731What stops you from buying heroic scale miniatures from the countless of companies still selling them? Why do you need GW to sell them to you?
>>98249248Usually you buy someone dinner first before you start that kind of craic. >>98249202Ur whites are chalky m8
>>98249750>but people buy it, because they can afford itJust because you can buy something means you can afford it.The amount of retards that acquire debt just to buy random cumsumer product is disappointing
>>98249302under rated post. the greatest crime of GD is making a standard. perfectly smooth transition. mimicking realism.I realize with painting competitions its difficult, but the complete evaporation of style just makes following these competitions zero fun. wheres the flat tones, whers the 'eavy metal, wheres the neon color blasts?
Comparison is the thief of joy, anon. Don't compare yourself to other people, compare yourself to the man you were yesterday. Paint your fething models and be happy that you're slowly improving.
>>98249933I wish tother painting competitions took off, golden demon is too tied to their promotional box art style and acrylic product line. Wapple always loses simply because he uses oil
>>98249471nobody cares, paintcel, most people get into the hobby to paint, not play muh games
>>98248793Hey now, I'm dirt poor but just a couple of weeks ago I was at my second cousin's graduation party and her family's filthy richWas nice drinking expensive wines in an absurdly expensive penthouse and then going back to the factory floor on Monday
Traditional games?
>>98250184Spoken like a true retard
>>98250270Huh? Painting models and discussing the design models intended to play traditional games is certainly related to traditional games, dont you think?
>>98249645Not true of painting
>>98249562This troll posts in the same format all over /tg/. Put a trip on so I can filter you.
>>98248793>Everything is just too saturated.This is post-hoc reasoning. The truth is that there are a hundred things you could do right now that would get you filthy rich within 5 years, but there's no way to know that they are ahead of time. People who bought early Apple stock didn't know ahead of time that they were about to become multimillionaires. Many of the most famous established streamers were just engaging in a silly little hobby before Twitch got huge and they got lucky. Opportunities haven't disappeared; they're just invisible, just like they were in the 90s and 00s. If everyone could see a get-rich-quick opportunity ahead of time, they wouldn't work. >Yes life is awful and full of disappointment and you're constantly told that geniuses, well connected rich kids and other people exist all around you but neither you, your friends or your extended family have ever met them and the closest that you come to it is meeting a chick who brags that she was married adn then divorced before she turned 27 and her parents gave her a 70k loan for a house because their 401k was doing so well and this is apparently an achievement for Gen YZers.I have met all those types of people, but I've never met your bizarre non-sequitur. I think you need to change your social circles.
>>98248614This is actually pretty high end by classic standards. Its not super technical or fancy, as far as I can tell this is mostly standard techniques but it looks very crisp. The white is especially good, well above what you'd considered 'average' for the era as white has always been a hard color.
>>98248769That's a perfectly good tabletop standard, I'd even say higher end of that scale.
>>98248769Dude. It's a solid step up from babby's first mini, entirely ok tabletop standard if you just want a painted army, but not much more.>>98248774Also this. So very much this. You don't have to go all in like your life depended on it, but if you think "tryhard" is something that applies to miniature painting then you have a very severe case of Teenage Anxiety going on that you should probably sort out in a hurry.
>>98249471>They have TOO MUCH DETAIL.>They make minis basically for infuencers.I agree.
>>98249471Play HH
If you want old school plastics the North Star stuff for Frostgrave and Oathmark is good
Just play historicals, the painting bar is so low as to be nonexistent.And that's a good thing.
>>98250380No.
>>98249311That might be the worst, most non sequitur attempt at a "no u" I've ever seen. I may not want to see you jack off, but after that pitiable retort I do want to see you raped to death by dogs.
>>98252693It's not even an attempt at a "no u," you're just such a media illiterate ADHD casualty you can't even parse what it's doing.Which is pointing out the complete squalling baby absurdity of attempting to label advanced painting (or any studied, practised, and honed skill of that kind) masturbatory. If you wanted to wriggle your way into personally insulting somebody for the study and work they put into painting you would do it by saying they did it all to garnet attention and adulation. Nobody anywhere in the world is practising advanced miniature painting for self-pleasure. The strength of your reaction to your misreading of that post tells a funny story about you, although there's not enough detail to get a final conclusion about just what exactly is so fucked up about you. It's something, though. Without a doubt. Maybe you're a grey tide guy who has spent hours arguing why they don't need to basecoat? Or maybe you're a Tabletop Simulator playoid type who doesn't actually own a real model? SOMETHING about the joking attack on playing triggered you into a crashout canyon...
>>98249654>and then contrast paint applicability secondThis. It's also why CGL greebled the fuck out of their Battlemech reboots. It's where the industry is headed currently. Be happy that it's not all shitty plastic blobs prepainted by enslaved teenagers in China, as that was where it was headed for a time in the early 2000's.>don't celebrate yet, the jury's still out as to whether or not we'll eventually end up there
>>98248774Wrong.I try hard, but still fail.
>>98249471This
>>98249471Truthnuke
>>98249471Agreed on the too much detail. The better you are at painting the more annoying the detail becomes. Shitty painters will just slop contrast on and call it a day.Influencers don't help. Even for wholesome types like Vince Ventruella, every second word is 'zenithal'. I wouldn't really consider an airbrush a hobby tool you can just pick up, paint for a bit, then put down. It's involved and fairly brittle as a device.Darren Latham was the only good traditional painting tutor for high level work and GW nuked his account.
>>98249562>Yeah, the totally realistic Primaris marines and all the other stuff GW releases. soooo realistic, its hard to tell that its actual sci-fi.Yout are ignoring the actual argument.new guardsmen are the perfect example, they have the 'true scale" proportions, making them thin tall and lanky, looking like castrated elves.
>>98248614LMAO fuck Duncan.Fuck any influencer who peddles overpriced paint and some faggot miniature line that looks like ass.If they still a product and you watch them, YOU are part of the problem
>>98248769Looks like typical contrast slop.It's not good but it's better than not painted
>>98253332whats wrong with contrast paints?
>>98253637Nothing. I'd rather play against an army that had one coat of contrast than bare plastic. But that is the bare minimum of quality and you should improve from that. Even if its baby steps.
>>98253654>and you should improve from that.Not everyone has the time or interest for that tho. Sure, it would be nice if everyone would share your/our interest in painting, but it's just not realistic.It's indeed the minimum (I would say a thematic fitting colourful zenithal can also look decent), and it would be good if everyone would do at least that.
>>98253321He was talking about realistic. Not true vs heroic scale or proportions. There are plenty manufacturers who still embrace the charming old school style, and I don't get the focus on GW here.
>>98253670I'm not saying they should all try to become the next golden demon winner. I'm saying they should do as everyone in -every- hobby does and improve as they spend more and more hours engaged in the hobby.It should frankly be something that comes naturally. The more time you do an activity the better you get at it.
>>98253684Their hobby is playing with miniatures tho. Not painting them. That is why so many play with unpainted armies - and I would not blame such a person if he at least sits down for an hour to do the bare minimum Paintjob, even if he might not care about it. It's still a sign of respect towards other players to show up with a painted army.
>>98248614This is nonsense, I went to a painting competition and saw very well painted models up close and they were really cool. It's up to you if you want to aspire to that level or just be happy with tabletop ready minis. My earliest fond memories of warhammer were my cousin's chaos warriors WHFB army and looking at armies painted in the shop window.
>>98253328Why does everyone need their own paint line? It's like how so many people want their own business. Why? A wise man once said there's a book inside everyone, and in the majority of cases that's exactly where it should stay.
>>98254837Economy is fucked where everyone needs to be a businessman on the side
>>98254882>Economy is fuckedTrue, but in particular youtube is fucked.Its a huge overblown bubble, and during corona and the whole lockdowns, viewer counts and income for all those influencers went through the top, but it also was caused by bots. And now, views go down a lot, and youtube does something against bot subs too, so their income is declining. For some a lot, for others its slower, but overall and in general, youtubers feel that its getting rougher. And the logical conclusion is to use their "influence" to reach out to their audiences, to sell them some bullshit. Thats why some start a digital or physical mini business on the side, others go for hobby unrelated sponsorships, gaming, but obviously, paints is something their audience is interested in.
>>98254916you either die a hero or watch yourself become the villain. there is literally no middle ground
>>98253654Contrast can look amazing.And most people should learn to use them to speed paint to a medium quality level, becauso most people want to put ARMIES on the table and advanced youtube slop techniques don't help with than.
>>98253756And those armies where the top standar of your zone, archiveable in 2 years of practice and with no mediocre professional artist destroying your hobby with unrealistic expectations being normalized.
