How come this 36 year old book's depiction of the Horus Heresy (the first detailed depiction of it ever, in fact), which is only like 5 pages long, is so much better, makes more sense, and is more dramatic than the 65 book series that was running nearly 20 years? Why didn't GW just stick to the narrative given by this original story but expand upon it?
>>98253219emprah as a sad failure is KINO, emprah as a 2deep4you reddit atheist is NOT KINO
>>98253219Post models.
>>98253219Because some nerds are disgusting subhumans who want to have everything explicitly spelled out for them and leave no room for ambiguity and personal interpretation.
>>98253219RoC doesn't detail the HH, you moronic fake grogIt gives a bit of background for the traitor legions and explains the origin and intent of the Emperor, but the actual HH narrative was in another game.Which you don't know because you're just a poser, and problably a tranny angry at not being able to a space marine in canon, like most BL haters
I have copies of both Realm of Chaos books and I genuinely can't read them for too long, they're so brilliant that looking at more than a few pages at a time feels overwhelming with ideas.
>>98253237Okay so why is there a section in there entitled 'The Horus Heresy'?>A tranny angry at not being able to a space marine in canonSo are trannies women or something
Unironically what the fuck is the appeal of reading this drivel? Do you have to be brain damaged to be a 40kid or a genre fiction babby in general?The Horus Heresy series alone has 25,000 pages. For all the time you spend reading 25,000 pages you could read all the great works of the western canon and more.>b-but the classics aren't excitingThey are. Ivanhoe, the Three Musketeers, Treasure Island, Orlando Furioso, the Faerie Queene, Robinson Crusoe, etc are all exciting, action packed works of literature that will stimulate you intellectually in a way no warhammer novel ever can.>but i like reading fantasy/sci fiWhy not read the best of the genre instead of slop? Why not read all the shit warhammer ripped off (Lovecraft, Conan, Starship Troopers, Elric, etc) than reading manchild baby shit?
>>98253288>you could read all the great works of the western canonThe kind of sentence that could only be formulated by a no-taste dilettante brainlet. Oooooh, the western canon? The succulent western canon??? Boring shit that actual scholars of literature only study out of obligation before they get to the good stuff?Do you have a literature degree? Or are you just one of a million precocious poseurs who thought that picking a few cheap paperbacks out of the discount Classics section at the bookstore made you a mature 'lil guy (before you completely stopped reading and started working at your dad's car dealership)
>>98253317Holy projection, batman. Get thee some Karamazov and calm thyself.
>>98253331No, because unlike you I'm not a homosexual who chooses what to read based on how it will make others perceive me, and I'm not a woman who needs other people to tell me how and what to think. I have my own opinions formed from my own experienced filtered through my own objectively correct principles, and some dead dude's witterings are of no interest or relevance to me or anything else who isn't a poseur of the highest poofery.Reading is for fun. TV is for fun. Games are for fun. Pretend to enjoy torturing yourself with leaden, pompous works of "literature" if you like, actual human beings read pulp stuff.
>>98253346If you don't care what other people think, why are you so assmad about getting filtered by some 200-year-old novel you got assigned in middle school?
>>98253219>>98253284>the first detailed depiction of it ever, in factwrong> is so much better, makes more sense, and is more dramaticwrong>Why didn't GW just stick to the narrative they did>>98253288>what the fuck is the appeal of reading thisif you wonder why people like genre fiction, you're the retardThe better questions are:- Why you keep posting these these "you're having fun wrong!" anti-BL threads again and again for years. What kind of mental illness is this?- Why are you so assmad about what other people enjoy?- Why do you post so much about a series you haven't read?- Are you a terminal pseud shunned IRL so you seek validation here in a board pretty much based in pulp fiction stories? - Why are you unable to understand that reading genre fictoin doesn't mean not reading other stuff?- Why do you pretend that many of the books you mention weren't the slop of their era? (I love my nigga Dumas, but the Three Musketeers and Montecristo had tons of meaningless filler)- Why do you pretend that many "classic" works of literature are gimmickity, stale, only were relevant in context, morally retarded (german and russian literature), or are only saved by nice prose?
>>98253346>No, because unlike you I'm not a homosexual who chooses what to read based on how it will make others perceive me, and I'm not a woman who needs other people to tell me how and what to think. I have my own opinions formed from my own experienced filtered through my own objectively correct principles, and some dead dude's witterings are of no interest or relevance to me or anything else who isn't a poseur of the highest poofery.>Reading is for fun. TV is for fun. Games are for fun. Pretend to enjoy torturing yourself with leaden, pompous works of "literature" if you like, actual human beings read pulp stuff.
>>98253317>>98253346ladies and gentlemen: the horus heresy target audience
>>98253331lmao it's not projection, i have the degree and the expertise and the career in the field of study you became a pretender to in your teenage years to build an identity for yourselfWhat have you read in the last 20 years since you got through all the classics, bud? Nothing, you just stopped being a reader? Or are you on your 14th journey through Ivanhoe lmao
>>98253384Can we see your Three Musketeers tier list?You can do it in French. I'm sure you read it in French, right? Right?
>>98253395don't have to be a chef to know when your toast is burnt m8
>>98253376>>Why didn't GW just stick to the narrative >they didthey clearly didn't, the emperor is an ultra giga mega sperg in the heresy books
>stop having fun wrong!>you must hate 40k and the HH because I say so! REEEEEEENote how this faggot no longer pretends that it's about the "original HH" being better than the later book series or somethingThis is just another anti-40k thread by a seething pseud or a literal buttmad discord tranny
>>98253410https://youtu.be/wggTsCHXn94
>>98253407No he isn't. >b-but The First Heretic!see, that's people parroting memelore and reddit hot takes because they haven't actually read the series besides a few books out of context, or missing out the deliberate unreliable narrative on purpose.Which is funny, because the HH series does have tons of problems and they fumbled the climax, but most of the online whining is about stuff that aren't actual problems instead of the real ones. The Emperor does make perfect sense if you read between the lines.
>>98253288>Ivanhoe, the Three Musketeers, Treasure Island, Orlando Furioso, the Faerie Queene, Robinson Crusoe, etcHush children. A faggot boomer is ranting about his boomerslop.
>>98253288>Robinson Crusoe>exciting, action packedlmao
>>98253219>>98253284>is so much better, makes more sense, and is more dramaticah yes the thrilling rendition of "the Primarchs fell because they were retarded easily manipulated buffoons ok" is so much better than "the Primarchs fell because Chaos needed to create a closed time loop that led to its own creation at the dawn of time, so it used the flaws and grievances of the Emperor's chosen generals to drive a wedge between the Legions and cement its own existence"Abnett turning the Horus Heresy into one giant time paradox was brilliant and exposed just how dumb most 40k fans are for ever thinking humanity was not the source of Chaos. Chaos is humanity's mirror, humanity's sins reflected back on it across thousands of years. See pic related, it was always intended to be this way, since 1st edition
>>98253582yes, it was better before that
>>98253582>Chaos needed to create a closed time loop that led to its own creation at the dawn of timeretarded memelore made up by /r/40klorefags unable with bad reading comprehension>Abnett turning the Horus Heresy into one giant time paradoxhe did no such thing, that never happens in the book>Chaos is humanity's mirror, humanity's sins reflected back on it across thousands of yearsthis is correct, but only partially. The warp is influenced by all sentient creatures with souls>, it was always intended to be this way, since 1st editionalso partially correct
>>98253618read my fucking image retard, Chaos was born specifically from humanity and humanity alone.
>>98253622Perfect example of a retard without reading comprehension.The text focuses on humans, but doesn't say that other species aren't involved. Did you forget about the Fall of the eldar?
>>98253642Not canon.
>>98253582>the Primarchs fell because they were retarded easily manipulated buffoons okThis is better than the other bullshit you posted. Horus Heresy absolutely ruined 40k. It always should've been a vague thing in the distant past.
>>98253642The text doesn't just focus on humans, it highlights that humanity is the greatest fuel and main source for Chaos (which is a plot point echoed in later editions as well, but here it's spelled out in triplicate). The Eldar created one Chaos God, or to be more correct, that Chaos God corrupted the Eldar before it was even born, using the species as one big psychic incubation sac. Humanity is now responsible for...>Khorne>Nurgle>Tzeentch>Vashtorr (lesser god, but still a god)>The Dark King (yet to awaken)
>>98253664>Khorne>Nurgle>TzeentchThese all existed before humanity. The necrontyr had a bird headed god of wisdom, Khorne is the human influenced version of Khaine, etc>Vashtorr not a god, just a god in waiting AKA a very powerful non-aligned daemon>The Dark KingA red herring parroted by those that didn't properly read TEATD.At best, a fate for the Emperor that he deliberately avoided and will become real once the God-Emperor rose>Humanity is now responsible for...speaking of that, guess who has been using the human species as one big psychic incubation sac.The remembrancer saint doing miracles since the start of the HH should be a big clue, like so much else that happens.
>>98253703*and will NEVER become real once the God-Emperor rose
>>98253288I know you faggots are going to laugh but the Horus Heresy is this eras Epic Cycle, which makes it all the more tragic that most of it kinda sucks and its tl;dr
>>98253288>Starship Troopersyou call this daddy-o slop good? damn how old are you boomer-sama?
>>98253376Why are 40k manchildren so upset when their hobby gets criticised?>>98253385>>98253410manchildyou are brony level>>98253542imagine being filtered by works of literature that mountain men and factory workers and street urchins managed to read fine>>98253564>getting enslaved, shipwrecked on an island, fighting cannibals and mutineers is not exciting40kids are the dregs of society
>>98253410why would trannies hate 40k?, it femoids who are but mad. this is a roastie seething here kek.
>>98253703>These all existed before humanity.Incorrect. Read my image. Or if you want nu-Lore, read the End and the Death Part 3, where the Emperor and Horus send the emotions of the Siege back in time during their duel and seed the origins of Chaos, completing the time loop.>not a god, just a god in waiting AKA a very powerful non-aligned daemonHe's explicitly called a lesser god of the Warp in Cawl's novel. Something akin to the lesser gods that the Emperor used as fuel to create the Primarchs. >A red herring parroted by those that didn't properly read TEATD.lmao, says the retarded nigger who didn't read TEATD. It literally says flat out that the Dark King is destined to be born, the Emperor only delayed his awakening. >speaking of that, guess who has been using the human species as one big psychic incubation sac.Yes, the Dark King. Like we've been told.
>>98253815>time loopTime doesnt matter in the warp, yesterday today and tomorrow are one and the same. There is no loop to close.
>>98253838>Time doesnt matter in the warp, yesterday today and tomorrow are one and the same. There is no loop to close.Once again proving you didn't read TEATD, which goes to great lengths to explain how all this shit works, such as Garviel Loken getting murdered to create a backwards echo of his daemon-raped soul that becomes the daemon Samus, who helps to bring about the Heresy, closing the time loop and guaranteeing that the Heresy itself cannot be rewritten.
>>98253703>>98253815>>98253859Man, the few paragraphs that we had before the HH series were much better than this crap.
>>98253859A daemon existing before its creation is normal warp shit, it has nothing to do with time loops. Next you are gonna piss and shit yourself when I tell you Slaanesh is exactly as old as the other Chaos gods.
>>98253815>Read my image. Or if you want nu-LoreIt's hilarious how obvious it's that you have only read a couple books like that, yet you see yourself as a expert, lmao.There are many more sources, but you don't know it, fucking casual.> send the emotions of the Siege back in time during their duel and seed the origins of Chaos, completing the time loop.again, shit that never happened. TEATD is bad, Abnett jumped the shark, and a lot of it deserves to be retconned,. But that doesn't happen.> called a lesser god of the Warp in Cawl's novelSo not one of the Four, just one of the many minor but powerful daemons. Just semantics.>It literally says flat out that the Dark King is destined to be born, the Emperor only delayed his awakening. No, A CHARACTER in the books believes that. But since you're a fucking casual and you haven't read anything else (like the Dark imperium books), you don't get the references>Yes, the Dark King. Like we've been told.wrong, retard. The Dark king will never happen. it was a possible future for the Emperor that he avoided, and that's it. At best, it's the bad version of the God emperor as a devourer god mentioned in Dark imperium, but that's explicitly debunked by what happens later.
>>98253904>the bad version of the God emperor as a devourer god Yeah haha good thing we got the good version so that totally isnt the case!
>>98253395Est-ce que c'est une mauvaise opinion si d'Artagnan est mon préféré?
>>98253933Actually, yes. The current god emperor seems to be the best case scenario given what a "god" is in this setting.That's the whole point of the Dark king or the equivalent mad devourer hinted as a bad outcome in 40k, to show the alternatives.
>time loop>Dark King>Vashtorrliterally what and who
>>98253719it isnt apart from 40kids who actually read that slop>>98253722starship troopers isn't good but i'd rather read it than starship troopers regurgitated
>>98253219People have gotten way more autistic and lazy since the 80's. They take everything they read literally. They want to devour stuff they enjoy like a swarm of locusts while putting in zero work and they'll move on if there's nothing new to consume. So you can't just count on the audience to sort through the clues you've sprinkled in, understand that there's going to be a lot lost to history/censorship, and come up with their own theories.
>>98254659>count on the audience to sort through the clues you've sprinkled in, understand that there's going to be a lot lost to history/censorship, and come up with their own theories.That's literally what the BL authors did with the HH series.Also Lotara is not a lesbian, she canonically uses her male first officer as a sex toy
>>98253219> is so much better, makes more sense, and is more dramatic than the 65 book series that was running nearly 20 years?Its not. Now fuck off, fake grog.
>>98253317>a literature degreenah, have a printer tho, just as good and a hellva lot more useful :)
Lots of gay, unnecessary garbage in the Horus heresy series. Like perpetuals for example. That kind of stuff turned me off from ever reading any of those books.
>>98255792>Perpetuals are not menioned until book 7, Legion>turned me off from ever reading any of those books
>>98255886Not following your logic. I heard about that detail and knew the picking up the series in the future wouldn't be worth it. And seven books isn't even that far in, either.
>>98253767You're seething lmao>>98253781The setting is inherently hostile to their ideals, no matter how much they pretend otherwise
>>98253219It's weird how the HH series basically establishes the Imperium was never better than it is today and there was no 'fall' there was just endless grinding faceless war around the space marine protagonists who actually matter, from origin to eternity. Everyone suffers forever except Marneus Calgar and Garviel Loken, who also suffer but in a cool antihero way. And the Emperor was a retard.In a way it actually does make the setting more grimdark, but I think not int he way the writers intended.
It's all unironically basically downwind of superhero movies.Dan Abnett, a comic book writer, graduates from the British comic 2000AD to writing for Marvel and DC in the late 90s/very early 2000s. 2001 to 2003 he makes an explicit audition to Games Workshop with Durham Red, where he throws a 2000AD character into a far future setting which is entirely a 40k rip-off (Inquisitors hunt vampires and mutants with bolters in a decaying religious sci-fi empire).Eisenhorn and Gaunt's Ghosts are successful and he gets greenlit for the HH in 2006. In 2008 Iron Man comes up and superheroism, Dan Abnett's bread and butter, goes mainstream. The rest is history. The Marvel cinematic universe fan and the Horus Heresy fan are the exact same entity.
>>98253582>ah yes the thrilling rendition of "the Primarchs fell because they were retarded easily manipulated buffoons ok" is so much better than "the Primarchs fell because Chaos needed to create a closed time loop that led to its own creation at the dawn of time, so it used the flaws and grievances of the Emperor's chosen generals to drive a wedge between the Legions and cement its own existence"NTA but yes, that's correct. The second thing you described sounds like wanky drivel.
What are the chances we'll get a 30 book series on The War in Heaven, demystifying the whole thing and making it a gay soap opera?
>>98256332Zero. No one gives a shit about xenos because they're not space marines. Best case is a three book series where the last book never gets published because the second book didn't sell enough to cover printing cost and paying the writer.
>>98253219I think you're being too hard on it. the Bligh books are all solid, as are a number of the HH set games like og titanicus.It's really just dodging the black library stuff, but that was true for ages before the HH series.
>>98255990>The setting is inherently hostile to their ideals, no matter how much they pretend otherwiseWell that's just not true, there are tranny sisters of battle
>>98256230it's extremely wanky and extremely drivel. it's fine for something to be simple and it's fine for something to be complex, but to try and make a complex wanky story in a setting focused on selling toys you push around a table rolling dice and making gun noises (which is a lot of fun to do) is ridiculous and obviously dragged down by the inherently silly nature of the media it's cribbing fromit says a lot the best 40k books are ones that feature no pre-existing characters
>>98255900>I heard about that detailIf you base your reading upon "hearing details", then i pity you. Not saying HH as a whole is worth reading, but if that is your way to find out if a book is good or not..
>>98256457This>>98256332Nobody cares about Xenos. There is no mystery surrounding the War of Heavens, and 90% of the 40k players could not even tell you who fought who there.
>>98255990Fuck off Manchild
>>98253288>Western canonWhy would I read the works of a failed civilization?
Statistically at least two of the primarchs were gay. Do the novels go into detail on this?
>>98257970>I heard the novels include a stupid, shitty thing that I don't believe fits in with the setting, so I will not be reading the novels.>OH SO YOU HEARD ABOUT A THING YOU DONT LIKE IN THE BOOKS AND THEREFORE WONT READ THE BOOKS! HOW DARE YOU HAVE A PERSONAL CRITERIA FOR WHAT YOU WILL AND WONT READ!Nta, but how else are you supposed to decide what books to read, oh enlightened one? I read books that are about things that I like, and don't read books that aren't.
>>98254624>i'd rather read it than starship troopers regurgitated*sad chrrps*
>>98253288>HH-books>classics
>>98260300>ChtorrWhen will the next damn book be released?
>>98253219because reading a rpg sourcebook is like reading the history of a world that doesn't exist with all the boring parts cut out while reading twenty warhammer novels is like reading twenty tarzan/john carter novels where the same shit happens over and over again. I also don't think seeing the traitor primarchs all fall to chaos in almost the same way over the course of several books is fundamentally more interesting than reading about it in the codex. It'd be better if they just focused on Horus so things didn't get to repetitive.
>>98253582I agree other than the fact that Eldar did Slannesh, not accidental that there's an unmistakably elvish character. Although you're probably still correct in that Slannesh is somewhat of a "second order"/"derived" Chaos god created out of Chaos' own natural self-consistent excess that's bound to occur over timeTzeentch is simultaneously a very "human" personified (like the Olympian to the Titans) god embodying "cultural" and higher concepts but also a "zeroth order" fundamental "pre-titan" type force being the other side of "entropy" or energy, the random motion of particles buzzing all over the place, ironically ensuring no long term orderNurgle is the most primal force of entropy but in a way I find embodies change more than Tzeentch, the long term cycle of change. Obviously the human part is the will to survive and all that (but a "different" will than the Khornate version - which also embodies the complete opposite as well, the will to annihilate)That's all a long ramble to get to the fact that Khorne is definitely the most "human" god, in "hierarchy" and "flavour". He embodies a layer of consciousness that's pretty much strictly in the "smart animal to sapient being" energy level
>>98253331>Holy projection, batman. Get thee some Karamazov and calm thyself.I'm already watching the anime.
