DND

>>98279467
How?
There's literally no joint locks and choking takes way too long. You get 1 minute + CON because DnD doesn't distinguish between mere lack of oxygen and the arteries on the neck getting pinched.

>>98279467
stupid fucking idiot

>>98279481
for the retard (>>98279467), if someone puts you in a proper choke, you're gone in a few seconds, not 3 minutes.

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I do hope we get good answers. I've always wanted a game that lets players employ sumo wrestling or Judo techniques.

>>98279462
>I finally have my BJJ blue belt
Congrats, but I'll be more impressed if you don't succumb to the blue belt blues.

>t. 3rd degree black belt

>>98279462
Nights Black Agents.

Ok, here are some things that a perfect grappling ruleset would need and that's probably why no system will ever bother

- a distinction between grappling while standing and on the ground
- rules for someone being in advantage/disadvantage like someone being in mount/sidecontrol
- takedowns
- limb based attacks because you can target many joints or the throat
- pain holds


And all of that is only compatible with human body plans. Grappling a dog or snake, let alone some fantasy creature would follow very different rules (usually with a bad outcome for the human grappler).

But that doesn't mean one can't try to improve existing rulesets.
D&D specifically:
-A trained grappler should deal damage when "shoving" a grappled creature to the ground, simulating a cool takedown.
- re-grappling an already grappled creature should impose the restrained condition, simulating getting a proper hold/lock
- re grappling an already restrained creature should open up big damage (simulating a succesful armbar or other joint lock) or induce the unconcious condition (simulating a succesful choke out)

considering the grappler is basically completely open to attacks from a third combatant, this wouldn't even be broken. Grappling is a 1v1 type of fighting so backup just stabbing the grappler in the back is fair game.

>>98279462
GURPS literally has 4 grappling systems.
The basic grappling which I don't like.
GURPS technical grappling if you wanna be very autistic about it
GURPS Fantastic Dungeon Grappling if you want to be less autistic about it
GURPS a New Take on Grappling if you want to be middle ground autistic.

No, there's no non-autistic version, it's GURPS after all.
There is a D&D version of Fantastic Dungeon Grappling called just "Dungeon Grappling" for you D&D fags.

>>98279585
This sounds like a huge pain in the ass that people are either going to ignore completely or will grind every combat to a snails pace.

>>98279644
why?
What's the difference between a spellcaster forcing a creature to make a saving throw every turn vs. a grappler forcing a creature to make a saving throw every turn?

I hate to say this, but your one and only option is GURPS. There's no other system that went as autistic as GURPS with the Technical Grappling.
I know, I know, everyone hates gurps.

But it has everything you ask for:
>>98279585
>- a distinction between grappling while standing and on the ground
GURPS Technical Grappling or the Pyramid a New Take on Grappling both make it a clear distinction between ground and standing grappling.
>- rules for someone being in advantage/disadvantage like someone being in mount/sidecontrol
Yup, GURPS TG and NToG
>- limb based attacks because you can target many joints or the throat
That's just GURPS in general, with martial arts if you want to target very specific things like joints, arteries, jaw, etc.
>- pain holds
Any version of Grappling with GURPS has those

>>98279644
>This sounds like a huge pain in the ass that people are either going to ignore completely or will grind every combat to a snails pace.
It's not a huge pain, but it is slow if you're using Technical Grappling. A New take on Grappling is supposedly faster but I haven't tried it

>>98279658
Damn, seems like after all this time I finally have to give GURPS a chance...

>>98279662
The books you want are
>GURPS Martial Arts
For the expanded targeting areas
>GURPS Martial Arts: Technical Grappling
The OG grappling book

If you are not satisfied with how Technical grappling does things you have alternatives
>Fantastic Dungeon Grappling
for a simpler, but much faster version of Technical Grappling
>Pyramid Volume 3 Issue 34 - A New take on Grappling
for a more "vanilla" take on grappling while still adding everything you asked for.

>>98279683
thanks brother

>>98279585
Sounds like you know what you want and you should just make it yourself, anon.

>I made a grapple/throw/submission ruleset based precisely on these same criteria
>I threw it out because nobody on the planet would want to sit through one player and a GM taking 40 minutes to grapple.
>also discovered a month later that GURPS had already more or less done exactly this

It’s not a question of IF it can be done, but if it can be done practically. Otherwise it works no different than dueling systems for the most part, but only a 1v1 game would find it useful.

Then again you play D&D so your group is probably used to sitting around bored out of their skulls during combat.

>>98279585
The problem here is that you're mostly thinking of sports grappling. In a real combat scenario, grappling is what you do to shank someone with a knife, or keep the other guy's knife from shanking you.
The reason this would never work in D&D is because there are never any good rules for executing someone. It's always damage rolls, which are woefully insufficient unless you get a crit and also you're a rogue. But at that point, you're better off just skirmishing and handing out sneak attacks every round rather than spending 3+ round for an automatic crit that still won't kill 90% of level-appropriate enemies.

>considering the grappler is basically completely open to attacks from a third combatant, this wouldn't even be broken.
This assumes that the third combatants aren't locked in melee with the rest of your party, or that they have a reliable way of prying you off their ally; because, again, it's D&D, so all they can do is attack you for their regular damage.
I don't even dislike D&D, but it's a game that works best when you don't try to use the framework for things it wasn't intended to handle.

>>98279585
prowlers and paragons, obviously.

>>98279462
been reading the street fighter rpg. the combat seems kinda neat but I have yet to try out any of the combat but it does have some grabbing moves

>>98279462
Pathfinder 2e isn't the best truly, but they did introduce me to the concept of adding more abilities from a grappling subclass with feat selection at certain levels that give unique tactics.
>>98279783
This is fine, but keep in mind that whatever you end up creating has to fit into the balance of the game you're playing in.

People still train BJJ in 2026 (lmao) ?

>>98283274
I've seen people that trained for years be bitchslapped by a random dude in a parking lot too many times. Organized martial arts are scams, but people can still be good grapplers. It's mostly up to common sense and natural skill.

>>98280877
>The problem here is that you're mostly thinking of sports grappling.
That is not a problem at all. Monks punching into hard metal armor is also retarded but fantasy RPGs can be about just serving certain fantasies and tropes.
>>98283340
Why do so many non-martial artists always assume everyone does martial arts for self defense? People engage in hobbies that don't increase their odds in a parking lot fight all the time, retard.

>uhh, /tg/s are such a scam, I've seen people who've been rolling dice for 15 years get bitchslapped by a random dude in a parking lot too many times

>>98283661
This. And for every stupid anectdote like this, there's also videos of some BJJ kid suplexing and controlling a guy two times larger than him in a bar. It's such a stupid keyboard warrior/internet tuff guy dick measuring contest everytime martial arts are brought up. Some MLEs really feel like they immediately need to prove something just because someone else does martial arts.

>>98279462

1e has the best unarmed combat system I've ever seen. It takes a bit for it to click, but once it does it's amazing.

Quick tips:

1) It is not a pummeling system, a grappling system, and an overbearing system. It is one system.

2) The stats are not as fiddly as it looks like, especially if you pre-calculate most of them and have them ready to go in your notes.

3) The rhythm doesn't look like it but it's very close to the rhythm of normal combat: first a roll to see if it happens and then a roll to see what happens.

4) invest time in understanding the difference between a grappling hold and a grappling "counter," which isn't really a counter so much as it's an action taken mid-hold. This is what makes it feel like grappling and not a grappling-flavored skill challenge.