>>98280504
>The only other time this happened is when the tzimisce kidnapped a clan of shadowlord kinfolk and turned them into revenant slaves. They broke free of the tzimisce when their clan leader made a pact with Granfather Thunder that gave the clan access to shadowlord gifts and rites(and ONLY shadowlord gifts/rites, because those are the only ones Granfather Thunder could power himself).
>Kinfolk Revenants that can use Gifts and Rites
What in the Sam Height is that???

>>98280868
Hey, anything worthy doing has its difficulties. That's what my sire used to say.
(He got diablerized while attempting to drain a Methuselah)

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Ok so HtV2e is the superior hunter system if I understand correctly. It's also the first CofD system I'm trying to learn. Without reading the blue book. But I love the idea of the Imbued as schizo "the planet's immune system kicking in says you must die" with their own internet and code language. I read there's an STV supplement to add them in. What is it called? Can I also plug and play in the SoL or SAD as sections of the Malleus Maleficarum or TF:V by just changing some names?

>>98281057
>Can I also plug and play in the SoL or SAD as sections of the Malleus Maleficarum or TF:V by just changing some names?
Pretty much

>>98280801
>all the other mages are already picking up bastet wives from the maid cafes on Horizon
>no garou is even remotely curious why my bribed techno spirits are helping them blow up the next factory town
fuck my baka magecel life
i might as well transition to kinfolk to get a garou bf

>>98280858
Well presumably they would stop being Revenants afterwards, so it's not quite that insane.
>>98281036
I would say he would be missed, but leeches consistently reject redemption.

>>98280858
IIRC, One of My Tribe (the Panders ritual) is actually a woof rite modified to run off of vitae, too.

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>>98281331
>i might as well transition to kinfolk to get a garou bf
Your dreams are one simple Procedure away.

>>98281331
The Children of Gaia have a ritual for that

>>98280304
*theoretically speaking*, can a Tzimisce concoct a goal or an idea that wont be autistically deranged, be about enslaving others or turning people into ashtrays?

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>>98281057
>But I love the idea of the Imbued as schizo "the planet's immune system kicking in says you must die" with their own internet and code language.
Vigil does have what you described. Pic related.

Does the Camarilla have any rules against the Vaulderie?

This is a relevant question because my prospective chronicle concerns a Sabbat region that has been conquered, and obviously old members of the Sabbat may pay lip service to the Prince, but still continue to practice Sabbat rites and the like, whether out of habit, religious belief, or in defiance.

>>98281331
stay free little chud. All those bastet "wives" do is eat hot chip, steal secret and lie. Sounds like a recipe to get groomed into giving up ascension, dancing under the moonlight and defending creation or some dumb shit like that. It's not worth it, right?

>>98281763
Camarilla has very few hard rules, just the traditions. Technically the vaulderie doesn't break any of the traditions.

However, I can't imagine a world where a Prince would allow it. Sabbat defectors are on understandably thin ice for fear of them being deep cover spies, letting them continue what is effectively a religious rite would arouse suspicion and make the Prince look weak. Not to mention the vaulderie has the potential to undermine Camarilla justice (blood bonds are sometimes used as a punishment) and create political blocs since it's a low level blood bond itself.

And what you're describing aren't even Sabbat defectors. Just Sabbat too milquetoast to fight to the death. I don't see why a Prince would let them live instead of putting them all to Final Death if they're going to flagrantly disrespect his/her rule by continuing to do Sabbat stuff.

>>98281331
Maybe don't do insane magic which causes your Garou bfs to get deleted and you might get more interest?
>>98281482
>>98281487
Would these even be worth doing for a Mage? I'd figure that sort of ritual makes your avatar go a bit crazy.

>>98281913
>Would these even be worth doing for a Mage?
Fuck no. Why would you drop being a mage for being a human with dog genes? Just learn the correct speheres and imitate being a kinfolk.

>>98281933
>>98281913
you can be a kinfolk mage. This is well established. There's a merit for it.

>>98281057
I syncretize the SoL into the MM when I run Hunter anyway. Vigil's full of American Fed hunters though and SAD's so generic that I don't see the point.

No clue about an imbued conversion in STV though. No interest in that kind of thing.

>>98281913
>I'd figure that sort of ritual makes your avatar go a bit crazy.
Ah, your "Avatar" will be fine. Just sign on the dotted line and le the good doctor handle this.

>>98281969
Do not trust this “doctor”. The ritual to join the garou as kinfolk is done naked under the moon, as Gaia commands it

>>98282032
Nonsense, my 48 hour furry porn hypnosis sesh is a proven and guaranteed way to improve your relations with lycanthropes.

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>>98281944
Fair enough. I just like SAD as the "lacks the zeal and knowledge but has the firepower" option of Hunter, where they might send a SWAT team or two but will have no clue what they're up against, and Bob Schnoblin is the most informed Glowie there is.
>>98281067
Cool. Thanks.
>>98281574
Slashers are a cool as fuck concept but I picture them more as your typical Jason and Freddie than a walking agent of "God has revoked your living privileges". Not to mention I don't know if there's an equivalent to Edges. Or if maybe that's just The Long Night. Maybe something in the Lucifugue powerset can help?

>>98282046
Bob Schnoblin's pretty cool I'll give you. But isn't he CIA and a solo operator? Whereas SAD is technically FBI.

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>>98282032
Quit spreading harmful superstition we're not asking

>>98282046
>Bob Schnoblin is the most informed Glowie there is.
I think that title would go to the head of the NSA and that's because he's a technocrat

>>98282070
Why is basedstein turning people into furries? This is almost as bad as the Bastet Toxoplasmosis conspiracy.

>>98282087
Anon, you absolute prole mongoloid. the main goal is to turn them into perfect sleeper agents. They're able to infiltrate two groups of enemies, waiting for their activation.
>Bastet Toxoplasmosis conspiracy.
But it's the truth, Science says so.

>>98282114
>But it's the truth, Science says so.
Weird how this coincided with the formation of multiple "lyran urmah cults" within the technocratic upper circles, just after the Void Engineers brought those alien cats back, don't you think?
Just because this is technically not a religion in the mystical sense but an alien conspiracy doesn't mean it's scientifically acceptable.

>>98282146
> formation of multiple "lyran urmah cults" within the technocratic upper circles
Unsubstantiated rumors
> just after the Void Engineers brought those alien cats back, don't you think?
See, there's your problem. I wouldn't take the special needs convention at face value. Spending that much time in the Deep Universe is not good for the mind or anything, really. We'll have to remind them not to steal any of our experiments...again.

>>98282070
Watch it, “doctor”. I know that some Weaver spirits specifically target you when you do your supposedly advanced medicine

>>98282146
>>98282220
>these are the namers enforcing the current status quo
Gaia have mercy on us all, no wonder the Apocalypse is so close

>>98282046
That anon was probably memeing but there *are* a few hints from in-story characters theorizing, a few already gone off the deep end that the Slasher phenomenon might be some kind of immune response from the collective unconscious of humanity. One story seed in Vigil 2e core suggests they might be starting to organize as a collective on an international level, though that particular story hook was dangled way back in the 1e Slasher book.

>Slashers are a cool as fuck concept but I picture them more as your typical Jason and Freddie than a walking agent of "God has revoked your living privileges".
Fair enough, though I still recommend giving the 1e Slasher book a once-over, it's got a surprising amount of wiggle room for almost any archetype you might want to feature in a chronicle. The aforementioned Jason and Freddy? Outright listed as inspirations. The Punisher with the serials filed off? Check. Hannibal Lecter? Check. The deformed cannibals from The Hills Have Eyes? You got 'em.

>>98281345
>Well presumably they would stop being Revenants afterwards,
Nope, Danislavs were both. They even developed the ability to substitute gnosis with vitae for gift that required it.
Their existance also revealed a secret the garou desperately try to snuff out whener it pops up: kinfolk can learn gifts up to level 3, just like how ALL fera can learn each others gifts to level 3(save bastet and kitsune, who can learn any gift period). The "level 1 only" thing is garpu social propaganda meant to keep them under the garou's thumb.

>>98282623
>The "level 1 only" thing is garou social propaganda meant to keep them under the garou's thumb.
...So kinfolk are a legion of potential superhuman badasses that could be saving the garou's asses right now, but are kept ignorant because the garou are too prideful and power-hungry to admit the need their human relatives to help them?
The same guys who shit-talk the technocracy for... Doing exactly that in mage form?
Sounds about right.

>>98280858
I don't know the Apocalypse rules very well, but it's normal for Kinfolk to be able to use Rites, isn't it? The skindancer thing is a Rite.

>>98282046
Honestly, if you think it's cool, go for it. You might need to put in a bit of work yourself but Vigil has guides for creating custom endowments.

>>98282311
Oh nooooo, I'm shaking in my lab coat. I always have a hard time when dealing with animals, trying to find an appropriate use for them is never easy, especially when it's a rare specimen. On one hand, I could use it for testing innovative toxins or work with the suits to see what it would take to erase those pagan delusions, on the other hand, I always wondred just how valuable they'd be as disposable shock troops.

>>98279666
>How did you end up doing storytime, anon? Does /tg/ still secretly crave storytime? I thought it was a lost art, or needed a reason.

I dunno. I just love telling people about my games. Storytimes are what made me discover /tg/ and 4chan in general. Those stories provided me good content when I had no game related to the setting being played in those stories. I feel that if I pleased people with my posts, even if only a little, then I am paying back what I was given. It is a lost art I guess. I know that I cannot recreate the funny prose of Two-Dee and the All-Guardsmen Anon. At best I can ape them there and then with my esl writings.

>>98281933
>Dog genes
No such thing, according to DNA.

>>98282645
>Garou too prideful and power-hungry
Right who started the war of rage again?

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>>98282623
>>98282645
This is honestly missing a lot of details and just wrong.
Kinfolk in general can't learn more than Rank 1 Gifts, can't learn Gifts that need Gnosis unless they have Gnosis merit and can't learn Gifts that require Rage at all. Unless they have an exception.

>>98282857
Later world of darkness books contradicting earlier ones by presenting a specific situation that subverts the "absolute" rules of more generic material?? say it aint so

>>98282857
Eh, he's not technically wrong. A sorcerer can learn rank 2 and 3 gifts via sorcery.

>>98282887
What book?
Is that the spirit chasing thing? Or Ephemera? Or Binding/Warding/Conjuring? Makes sense to me. Can they use quint as gnosis? Can a kinfolk sorcerer with gnosis use it as quint(assuming their paths flavor is sufficiently gaian..)?

>>98282893
>Makes sense to me. Can they use quint as gnosis?
>Can they use quint as gnosis?
>Can they use quint
>quint
Sorcerer 20 was such an abomination that not even the mage 20 and werewolf 20 books aknowledge it. All 20th efition books tell you to use sorcerer revised

Just curious but are there any good starter modules or something similar for Mage the Awakening? I've only played a few CofD games that were short 5 to 7 session games and I kind of want to run something, and I like wizards so I figured I'd go for Mage but I'm better as a DM when I have at least a loose guideline to follow rather than coming up for a campaign from scratch.

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>>98282886
I literally give you the book from 1997 and 2016, the latter being just the same thing but written differently. Danislavs are also from 1997.

>>98282887
Technically, a normal man can find a Conquistador's Sword and start stacking supernatural powers. But no one likes Haight copycats.

>>98282903
...m20 Sorcerer came out in 2022 dude. Most of the 20th Edition books were already out by that time.

>>98282903
Anon.. of course the books that came before sorcerer 20 can't acknowledge sorcerer20. It's almost a decade fucking older. Nevertheless, the separation between "mana" and "quintessence" is dubious as fuck and also kind of retarded, considering revised states sorcerers might use tass and shit. And even IF they were different, mana would just be a form of quint. And even if that wasn't the case, my question remains about mana/gnosis equivalence in a gaian paradigm of sorcery (revised says something like a martial artist sorcerer might conceive of their mana as chi, so a gaian sorcerer might conceive of gnosis?)

>>98282926
The project for m20 sorcerer started years before then and the writers have were picky about referencing upcoming releases with books like gods and monsters.
The reason it's not referenced is the same reason it got so many delays in dev, it was a steaming pile of shit and many writer left the dev team for it to avoid having their name associated with it.

I was told that hedgefag made builds for deviant and beast

WHAT THE FUCK HEDGEFAG

I am thoroughly disappointed, and also disgusted

>>98282932
>Nevertheless, the separation between "mana" and "quintessence" is dubious as fuck and also kind of retarded, considering revised states sorcerers might use tass and shit
My guy, the sorcerer revised book states clearly that sorcerers cannot use or even percieve quintessence.
Mana also has a shit ton more uses without sphete/paths than base quintessence does.

>>98282942
>it was a steaming pile of shit and many writer left the dev team for it to avoid having their name associated with it.
M20 Sorcerer and hell, Sorcerers as a whole are such a small part of WoD that I really doubt they gave a shit.

>>98282942
>the writers have were picky about referencing upcoming releases with books like gods and monsters
Weren't picky. Mage books were referencing upcoming mage books before they came out.

>>98282955
These are world of darkness writers anon. Are you really saying they wouldn't throw hissyfits over dumb shit? Really?

reminder that according to the intended lore the overwhelming majority of people in the traditions and the union are sorcerers/scientists, not enlightened wizards/geniuses

It’s to the point where most rarely bother to even recognize the differences between the two, implying divergent magics or magical breakthroughs are a rarity outside of these few

Beast is okay.

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>>98282951
ASSUMING SORCERER REVISED and not 20th which uses path of quint manipulation verbatim.
mana IS quint. Gnosis IS quint. Mana is a form of quint. And Sorcerers can use "particularly potent tass". They can also tell if quint is present, directly contradicting itself.
This is all completely missing the point.

Mana is a conception of the sorcerer, he is conceiving of a specific resonance of quintessence in line with his paradigm. This is called out to be Mana (Breath of the Universe) or Chi for examples. My question is whether a particularly animist paradigm of sorcery could conceive of their sorcery paradigms mana as gnosis and have it thus be able to be used as such for gifts, theoretically.

>>98282922
>But no one likes Haight copycats.
Not really, people love mixing splats even when it makes a crippled character. Sam Height was just lame and gsy because he was written by lame and gay writers.
The skindancers pre-swordening were also pretty cool. A tribe of immortal, vitae-addicted werewolves created from kinfolk on a warpath after years of slavery under the garou. They had amazing potential as a new crossover villain faction right up until the writers had to ruin it.

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>>98282975
Beast needed to be closer to CTD Unseelie rather than just victim blaming.
Just be a straight-up evil dude who does evil shit without regret.

Hedgefag I will NEVER forgive you for this betrayal

You have wounded me

>>98282999
>Didn't read his own screenshot.
Anon, You might want to read the next 3 sentences after the title next time.

>>98283000
>They had amazing potential right up until the writers had to ruin it.
Classic World of Darkness in one sentence.

In an ideal World of Darkness, sorcery is available to everyone, mortal or otherwise, including every splat.

Mortal sorcerers can perhaps awaken to true magic, or become a vampire and be a blood sorcerer, or a werewolf for spirit magics, etc.

Splat limitations were always annoying.

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>>98283012
does this help your comprehension of my point? Does "typically" mean anything to you? Did "raw" fly by your head?

In my homebrew there are other competing consensuses out there in space, or the deep umbra, including shit like Reptilians and the Greys and weirder civilizations, some with unified paradigms and others in similar situations to ours.

>>98283030
That would have been cooler than the “humans are soooo speshul” garbage we got.

>>98283024
Nta but that just means if your Sorcerers magic is based on X, they can't use Y, Z or N.
If you are using Chi, you can't use Vitae or Gnosis or Glamour

(And of course they can't use Quintessence straight up without it being in a specific form)

>>98283030
>>98283037
Problem with that 90% od chronicles doesn't give a fuck about aliens or outside of our solar system.
Plus our planet is already special, with it being surrounded by the Triat and containing Gaia. Why wouldn't humans be special too? Even DTF made Earth to be the perfect planet and Humans their most perfect creations.

>>98283048
Other consensuses have their own world souls and their own triat variants and their own ascension wars. Angels and demons are intergalactic aliens observing less developed consensus, competing just like Greys and Reptilians and the elder space fish (more like whales). The Spheres came after the Pillars, what comes after the Spheres?

>>98283048
each reality is perfect because it was created by a transcended being at 10 arete
ours just shattered and stopped being perfect for like 5+ different contested reasons

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>>98283038
Exactly. It implies that sorcerers in revised use a specialized form of quint according to their paradigm of sorcery. So perhaps if you framed it correctly, your paradigms resource could be gnosis. Assuming this to be possible, would this then be usable for gifts? This would have some interesting implications, especially if you assume that unlike Gnosis the mana background is more easily gained with training.
This Mana=Other resource even has a precedence in Revised for Sekhem.

>>98283056
Going back to Pillars because Sphere system is awful.

>>98283064
>So perhaps if you framed it correctly, your paradigms resource could be gnosis
That's not how that works. Mage explains that's not how that works. The difference between quintessence, gnosis, vitae, glamour, etc aren't just resonance and paradigm.
Yes they're all forms of quintessence, but so is literally everything from matter, to souls, spacetime. When quintessence is made into something, it has different properties than raw quintessence and can't be used like that anymore. A sorcerer with mana maniplulation could transmute one into a different one, but that's like how an alchemist transmutes lead into gold. The alchemy doesn't prove that lead is gold and should therefore be used in computers the same way.

>>98281057
>I read there's an STV supplement to add them in. What is it called?

There's one for H5 called the Imbued but it's incomplete amateur hour shit with obvious spelling mistakes.

>>98282857
Technically speaking, the book never makes a case for why Kinfolk can only go up to 1 other than it just says so, given that there's no complementary mechanic like generation for vampiric disciplines, and you can probably make a reasonable assumptions that
>Garou are dicks and treat their family poorly
>Kinfolk getting gifts would make them uppity anyway and the Garou are trying to avoid dying out this way
>Spirits are dicks (this is known)

>>98283056
>whats after spheres
arcana

>>98282922
Damn this snippet has fucking everything
>Technocrat poor social IQ and incompetence
>Spanish bastardry
>Uktena being an edgelord
>Metis falling to the wyrm at the slightest temptation
>Somehow losing to a schizophrenic with daddy issues
>Using a powerful artifact to usurp the power of mages
This is maybe the peak of WoD nonsense.

>>98281933
>>98281943
>>98281969
Why would a Mage ever willingly become a Kinfolk? Bastet are probably more pleasant 90% of the time and if the Mage's goals are to get his pelvis shattered by a werewolf there's probably easier and less degrading ways to go about it.

>>98283139
I can basically smell the catnip from here, but I'll indulge you. You can be Bastet kinfolk, you know that, right? Of course you do. Just try not to teach some fucking insane fairy-cat-thing the entire hermetical sorcery programme. House Shaea for example is already 300% compromised by the egyptian cats, and we don't want another infestation buried so deep it can no longer be excised without damage to the host, so to speak.

>>98282975
Jeffrey Epstein splat, my favorite

>>98283189
>House Shaea for example is already 300% compromised by the egyptian cats, and we don't want another infestation buried so deep it can no longer be excised without damage to the host, so to speak.
I'm sorry, the catgirls were too powerful. The bubasti literally become more beatiful than the top supermodels and so many of their signature gifts are exclusively designed for breeding.
It didn't matter how many fell to the cock, they won either way.

>>98282950
Hedgefag did it in good faith.

>>98282850
>Right who started the war of rage again?
The garou by killing the other fera's kinfolks.

>>98283189
>>98283229
Perhaps this is why Mages should pursue Garou relations instead of the cats. To bad the poster was Garou repellant, probably scared them off after he deleted the last few.

>>98283021
There is no "ideal" world. Go play something else, why are you looking into something that doesn't fit your vision? This is not D&D.

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unless it's somewhere else in the book I think mage dark ages forgot a month for shiny rocks

>>98283117
>Garou are dicks and treat their family poorly
>Kinfolk getting gifts would make them uppity anyway and the Garou are trying to avoid dying out this way
>Spirits are dicks (this is known)
it's the later. garou are dicks but spirits decide who gets to learn what gifts because the gaian spirit pack which lead to the renown system and such and are also the one who keep kinfolk on rank 1 as seen with the Danislavs: grandfather thunder and his brood are the ones making a exception after being petitioned with a lot of shrines and sacrifices and the Danislavs don't even need to gain renown to learn those gifts

it probably goes into the same thing a owl's anti immortality stance for garou: fera are just meant to do their job and nothing outside of that so garou are just meant to rip and tear till they die and kinfolk are just meant to be breedingstock, but the Danislavs weren't just kinfolk anymore so they might have fallen out of the box that the stormcrows and friends had them filled in

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>>98283513
yeah those are just birthstones
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthstone

>>98283529
still seems kinda weird to omit a month if they're gonna list all the rest

>>98283538
i just assume it's another case of white wolf's amazing quality control

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>>98283110
>H5
Ewwwwww
>>98282061
Fair enough, even if still technically a glowie.
>>98282080
CIA/NSA rivalry endures also here huh? Interesting.
>>98282339
Damn, that sounds cool as hell. I certainly wouldn't want an organized collective of horror movie killers. Or to be trapped in a building with them. I'll have to check that slasher book. Making a monster sounds entertaining.
>>98282770
Fair enough, guess one can't have everything already pre built. Thanks

>>98283522
>be kinfolk
>racist brother's psychotic stacey friend has been trying to groom me to be her husband since I was 15
>our mother (also racist) tells me I should shut up and learn to do household chores
>grandfather says back in his day she would have picked me up over the shoulder and kept me in the den for a few days when she was feeling it
>Uncle (bone gnawer) is just happy to be included
>totem spirit tells me to shut up and get naked already, adds stupid Kinner for good measure
>tfw all of this and despite killing a fomori by accident last tuesday still not allowed at the grown-up table
There is no hope for the Kinfolk, even if the sex is probably pretty good.

>>98282950
Don't you like the catboy beast and slimegirl deviant?

>>98283635
>even if the sex is probably pretty good.
It likely isn't unless it's male kinfolk with female garou. Paring the human orgasm mechanism with werewolves accelerated neurology and accelerate metabolism means that woofs aren't likely to last very long, but will be constantly needy.

I feel bad for the female kin.

>>98283848
Why did the writers make the garou so intensely unlikeable when they are meant to be the protagonists of a game line about desperately trying to save the world from a dark god of corruption and degradation. Every single time I read into them they are retarded cunts who treat their own people as either competitors or cum dumpsters without agency. I want to like WtA but god the woofs are insufferable.

>>98284023
because the main idea is that you need to try and reform them into something that can actually do it's job hench why the metaplot is about a king who is the first in his line to ask serious questions for example

but in practice most people just play the garou like sabbat who claim to be righteous

>>98284023
the setting is supposed to be punk and gothic and the writers' barely disguised fetish with all the breeding mechanics and spirit gifts/rites.
i don't think they are any more hatable than vampire though since nonconsensual bloodsucking is a major part of that splat
and the garou are the cutest when they are indignant, stubborn and dumb.

>>98284031
Thats sad. Because I've never heard any WtA stories about the players being characters who are aware of the problems the garou face and are trying to fix/change things to be better. Its always retardmaxxers who double down on whats already there.

>>98284023
>when they are meant to be the protagonists of a game line about desperately trying to save the world from a dark god of corruption and degradation.
It's made worse by the fact they aren't the only ones against the wyrm, and they pulled a second technocracy by trying to write the weaver with nuance and accidentally making them More likable than the garou.
The weaver is supposed to be an insane god and an overwhelming force of banal mundanity choking out all potential from the world... except it's also the god of science, progress, human supremacy, and having flushing toilets instead of shitting in the woods. The "dangers" the weaver poses are abstract at best and Only hurt threats to humanity at worst. Which makes the garou look even worse since their complaints often come off as them whining about being on the "threats to humanity", list for Very Obvious And Self-Inflicted Reasons.

>>98284023
To be fair alot of the kinfolk abuse is greatly exaggerated if you go by the tribe books and novels/anthologies.

>>98284144
I recall weaver ascendent basically ends with all mages getting gilguled and the umbra + all numia completely removed from this reality. And bringing the world back into balance by freeing the wyrm would make humanity incapable of building anything more durable than mud huts because he needed to be trapped by the weaver for materials like concrete to exist.

>>98284168
Weaver ascendant's end depend on how "sane" the weaver is by the end, which itself is determined long before the toj scenario by which side wins the internal weaver-faction civil war in the spirit world(Science spirits vs Technology spirits. Science wants eternal progress, tech want eternal stasis)
The bad end has the weaver bisect metaphysics leaving the world to bleed out and die, while the sane ending has the world of darkness become a no-magic sci-fi setting.

Does V6 need every single variation of sacrilegious vampires out to tempt and corrupt everything they touch, between Path of Night, Path of Cathari, Bahari, Followers of Set and others?

>>98283848
is werewolf one-pump-chump real lore? if so that's fucking hilarious. I was always under the impression werewolves were "good" at sex, considering how much of it they seem to be having.

>>98284283
garou are also a culture that tells you that fucking for lust is wrong that's what metis are meant to represent after all so most of the time garou are going to be "think of our population numbers" kinda guys when it comes to fucking and in general most kinfolk relationships are heavily implied to be abusive and abusers don't often care about how good their victim feels

the exception seems to be the fianna for all their drunkard good for nothingness they are the ones who value skills in lovemaking and are the guys who fucked house fiona into being (and have the highest amount of metis in the nation)

>>98284302
fucking for lust is NOT wrong according to garou laws, garou fucking each other is wrong. Metis represents Garou becoming spiritually "incestuous" by coveting each other instead of humans or their animal kin. It's a failsafe designed so they can not get rid of humanity or wolves and Metis is a punishment for that, not being lustful. Pretty sure Fianna are just the most obvious. No idea how bad Kinfolk treatment is supposed to be, it fluctuates between "normal people" and "all women are always barefeet and pregnant".

>>98284314
>It's a failsafe designed so they can not get rid of humanity or wolves and Metis is a punishment for that
Thing is, that's complete bunk. There are multiple changing breeds that produce healthy metis. Garou are likely just defective and couldn't accept that, so they imagined a reason for deformed metis to actuallly 100% be part of "gaia's plan".
The Litany itself is just laws a council of garou made up a long time ago, not some divine commandments from gaia. There's literally a fetish made from the table said council debated the details of creating the litany.

>>98284314
>No idea how bad Kinfolk treatment is supposed to be, it fluctuates between "normal people" and "all women are always barefeet and pregnant".
It depends on clan, sept and familly but you haven't read much of wta if you think "all women are always barefeet and pregnant" is the worst kinfolk garou relationship get we also have shit like the silver fangs tracking down, kidnapping and raping every single descendant of a idiot i mean amazing warrior who managed to fight in every form! after she got gunned down in homid form... regardless of age and some been implied to be of... low age which i think is the lowest because the silver fangs had to keep this one a secret from the other tribes but "i didn't even knew about the garou before one kidnapped me" is acceptable in the garou nation even if the kinfolk had a human familly and a large number of bsd kinfolk are willing defectors, not that the wyrm folk treat kinfolk better but spite is a powerful motivator

so in total it's meant to be pretty bad and the good ones are for showing that the garou don't need to have such a bad relationship with kinfolk which goes into what i said here >>98284031

>>98284168
>>98284182
Technically, in weaver ascendant humanity is only forced to start from scratch as a side effect of the Wyrm undoing the pattern web to free himself, but it can eventually build itself back up to where it was, and without the worst parts of modernity that were caused by the Weaver's madness. So it will be better, but it'll take a long time to get there
Personally, while that's my favorite ToJ scenario for the woofs, I prefer pairing it with Mage's Judgement scenario and have all humans ascend when the Wyrm is freed and then build their horizon utopias while Gaia recovers[/spoilers]

>>98284302
>>98284314
What generally happens is that while the garou try their best to be good for their kinfolk, the inherent power disparity, plus the fact that a good chunk of the world's most powerful men want a piece of them as a trophy (imagine the Pentex subsidiary manager who successfully turned your younger brother into a formor) means the woofs often become very controlling of their kin's lives. It's a situation that easily devolves into abuse even if the woof doesn't want to
As for the claims they pump once and leave, remember that they also regenerate fast. Which means they're likely not going to come just once even if they're that sensitive. Also, remember how wolves mate and a certain something that makes them popular with furries and white women...

>>98283554
The 1e Slasher book and the HtV2e corebook have all the Slasher information. If I'm remembering correctly, the Hypnotists (the top tier of social-oriented Slashers ala Bateman) are meant to have semi regular meetings and conventions, while the Puppeteer/Hypnotists (big-brain Slashers ala John Doe/Jigsaw) are possibly working towards some unified manifesto for their killings.

anyone here already got the new circle of the crone book?

>>98284182
>while the sane ending has the world of darkness become a no-magic sci-fi setting.
Major Technocratic victory in WtA?

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>>98284751
Not exactly a good thing desu

>>98284023
It wouldn't be WoD if the good guys weren't just a lesser evil to be fair. Unless we're talking about Mummies.

>>98284082
The retardmaxxing is the more exciting part than slowly trying to make your Sept leader less of a cunt to the Kinfolk or more willing to consider alternative solutions than violence.

>>98284152
The Kinfolk book makes it kinda seem like it's 50/50
>Most Garou look down on you and expect some level of subservience but aren't dicks about it
>Older Garou openly fantasize about when they were the local lord and had their pick of kinfolk from the pens
>That one or two guys hating you for just being weak
>Likelihood of getting raped half to death by a different tribe or Sept over any random dispute
It's not like Kinfolk are legitimately openly abused but except for CoG, Bonegnawers, and the Get (surprisingly) who treat their kinfolk well enough and the RTs who only deal with dumb dogs, Kinfolk are 2nd class citizens at best. It sort of checks out with the setting, considering how every other minor splat is treated like they're expendable or pathetic.

Mind you, getting treated the way kinfolk are themselves isn't innately abusive in the context of the setting but if you read it from the outsider perspective it does get pretty weird that they're trained to show submission very quickly and live with the real likelihood of family spazzing out on them.

>>98284370
>A certain something that makes them popular with furries and white women
You just know. though I'd assume 95% of Garou pairings will never actually have that happen, unless the Kinfolk is a certified monster fucker or there's some weird dynamic at play there

Any updates on that one werewolf who couldn’t shapeshift back into his human form after being molested by a life mage? Has he left the shower?

Thin-skinned woofs at it again, rushing to defend their splat........

>>98284860
anon, you can stop this routine. we know you're the furfag autist who won't shut up about WtA, and you use this rhetoric to drum up argument.

Woofs are mentally retarded lol

>>98284882
No need to project your own furshit obsession, woofboy.

>>98284859
Should probably accept the full time pet status at that point.

>>98284860
>>98284882
>>98284890
Ironically partially a furry and my favorite splat is Wraith. Reality can be stranger than fiction at times.

Isn't all this kinfolk & breeding talk kind of pointless because werewolves don't work like that anymore in 5e?

>>98284801
Thats gay as fuck. WoD is weaker for the fact that everyone is evil as shit and there is no hope. I would argue a dark and gritty setting like WoD needs good guys and good forces more so that they can shine in contrast to the fucked up wider setting. Edgy grimdark for the sake of edgy grimdark is shallow.

>>98284781
>supernatural causes this stagnation
>”it’s not supernatural tho”
The whole points of Mage lore is that magic and science and etc are all the same shit seen differently, kind of like real life (you don’t need words like magic or sorcery to evoke the same essence you just need funky physics and mad science and a sensation of mystery and wonder)

>>98284916
This isn't from Mage senpai

>>98284924
THE TRIAT EXISTS IN MAGE TOO U FUCK DUCK

>>98284936
That doesn't mean that Weaver Ascendant is a Mage scenario or cares about Mage things at all senpai

Mage traditions value sovl over strvctvre
Technocratic union values strvctvre over sovl

Also for some reason the union thinks that the 90s decade was the coolest decade
They refuse to ditch their 90s aesthetics the same way the sons of ether refuse to ditch their 1890s aesthetic

This game has never not been a joke and Mage is basically just superficial aesthetic wars over who gets to paint over reality

>>98284940
Cope more furfag it’s all connected

>>98284946
And we refuse to ditch WoD since we are here.
At least we know we are a joke, you are just the punchline.

>>98284946
The 90s had sovl okay

There was NO better decade to be a teenager fuck you

>>98284950
That's why Caine would btfo any archmage

I bet there are people in the Union who have a massive hate boner for the 80s. My father is one of them.

“HUR DUR LOOK AT ME AND MY GAY ASS NECK KEYBOARD AND FAGGY ASS HAIR” - literally my dad

>>98284967
nta but for all the hype Caine gets, he doesn't do shit, continues to do no shit and basically exists to get shit on

>>98284967
But anon. Caine was cursed by an Archmage. God is an Archmage.

>>98284975
Based dad. The 70s/80s were gay as fuck.

>>98284914
W5 isn't real and it can't hurt me

The Union should start a vote on how the next decades look

>>98284915
It could be seen that way though I'd say Garou are purposefully made to be flawed heroes so that Mummies stand out more and so that the player has more avenues to explore fixing up the world with, fixing up the nation is a big aspect of WtA.

God hates Caine right? God is watching him at all times?

If I cast a spell at Caine to cause him to have mega awful diarrhea would God let it happen? Or would the sevenfold curse cause me to have mega awful diarrhea seven times as bad?

>>98285005
you get the sevenfold shits. only god gets to fuck with caine directly, he's very protective like that.

>>98285009
You’re accusing God of having no sense of humor. God gives you the mega awful shits as well. In fact anyone who doesn’t find diarrhea funny gets the mega awful shits.

>>98285005
>God hates Caine right?
No. God is on Caine's side and keeps hoping for Caine to repent.
Caine cursed himself, God gave him protection.

God is an archmage only as long as reality is perceived through the Mage layer. As the latest splat, DtF is more canon than any other.

>>98285021
Wrong. There is a passage where Caine is like “why god why” and he hears dickish laughter above.

>>98284844
I imagine the proportion of monster fuckers is slightly higher among kinfolk since they actually get to fulfill their fantasies, and at least one person got persuaded into doing the CoG rite to become kin thanks to that. I also think said monster fuckers probably chase lupus and metis garou

>>98284914
>he considers W5 canon
Don’t do this to yourself, anon. Even the craziest BSD wouldn’t submit to such torture

>>98285031
Yes, there is an alternate ending to one Gehenna scenario specifically called a more grim ending than the standard one.

>>98285031
>>98285021
you two are talking different gehenna scenarios caine only cursed himself in nightshade while god is only keeping him alive against his will in a optional epilogue of crucible of gods

notably in yet another scenario he is just fucking dead and has been the whole time

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>>98285005
>God hates Caine right?
Nope, he literally has to show the smallest hint of wanting to go to Heaven and God and Abel will welcome him with open arms.

>g-god a-actually likes caine
coping vamptards kek

God loves all his children even the worst ones ;(

>>98284989
Hart Wardens.
Cult of Fenris.
Galestalkers.
All improvements

>>98285062
Hat Warders
Cut Fenris
Gaystalkers

God is an archmage who was a changeling who Named their way into divinity.

The mages outside of existence aren’t even human so that should terrify you.

Caine merely exercised the same divine creative power that all humans have a right to when he created Murder. Caine broke no rules so God wouldn't punish him.
Caine will eventually see why his addition to creation is shit and admit fault, all God has to do is wait.
Caine will get it... eventually r-right?

>>98285097
And what? Say that Abel wasn’t a gloryhound who got what he deserved? Fuck that

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>>98285125

>>98285125
Come on now, Kid, it was wrong what you did.
You've gotta admit it was wrong what you did.
You've gotta admit it was wrong!

Is Caine physically attractive? Like under the beard I mean

>>98285183
Absolutely. He was one of the first humans fresh from the Garden of Eden. The early humans in WoD were uberchad demi gods with 5+ in every stat. Caine was a hyperborean sex god. God I can only image what Eve was like.

If there are alternate timelines where alternate paradigms have succeeded globally, like the technocratic one in our own succeeded globally… WHY is the ascension war even a thing? Why not just go off to a timeline where everyone has either successfully ascended or stayed behind as oracles to help others ascend? What if there are timelines consisting of entire civilizations of oracles and ascendants?

>>98284994
They do that all the time, how do you think the Inner Circle designs the Timetable?

>>98285229
Was the guy who thought of disco ever given an award? And can we revive it for another five years or so?

>>98285220
Because no one actually thought hard enough when they wrote these games? It’s entirely pulp garbage.

>>98285220
Because not every mage has the dots in Time necessary to hop to another timeline, plus there's the unalienable connection to one's real world, that would lead to the mage always feeling like an outsider and like they abandoned the fight in their own world. Same reason why patriots and nationalists exist.

>>98285261
>Because not every mage has the dots in Time necessary to hop to another timeline
The Union shares in its resources.
>plus there's the unalienable connection to one's real world, that would lead to the mage always feeling like an outsider and like they abandoned the fight in their own world
That’s fucking retarded.

>>98285283
>The Union shares in its resources.
The Union has no reason to hop over to ascended orgy utopia timelines, when they're so close to their own victory.
>That’s fucking retarded.
What's retarded about loving the place where you were born and wanting to try and make it a better place?

>>98285312
You just aren’t Jewish enough to understand I’m afraid.

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>>98285331
Whats the state of the Jews in WoD. Do they worship an antediluvian when they sacrifice babies in a ritual? or something like a spirit

>>98284844
>>98285034
Isn't it canon that almost all kinfolk are furries?

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I think magic SUCKS!

>>98285376
You think technology sucks? Because if you don’t consider technology to be magical/wonderful you don’t actually love or appreciate technology, do you?

>>98285346
there was a dark age mage adventure that claimed that the crusades in part where because there is a hidden ritual side somewhere in the holy land that can turn you into a super mage demi god and your group has to stop Frederick Barbarossa from using it

and in modern time a jewish craft coincidentally has their headquarters in the area

>>98285360
That would make sense, but I don’t know if there’s any official lore on it (or anything that could be interpreted that way)

>>98285429
Hey, we do the brainwashing here, pal!

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I like to think god exists but is outside of horizon realm mage fuckery and his throne is empty like Cappadocius wanted, but he's just waiting for Caine to repent and getting mildly amused when he fails through his own fault.
>>98285049
>>98285031
Like this anon says. If your child was throwing a tantrum because he doesn't want to eat his vegetables wouldn't you be mildly amused that he's rolling on the floor screaming about how it isn't fair, flipping some toyboxes, and saying he's gonna go live in the woods? That's World of Darkness to me. Everything going wrong for every splat is directly a result of Caine being too prideful, angry, and jealous and could instantly be fixed if he just said sorry
>noooo why did you reject my offer made without humbleness while you like Abel's, you must like blood!
>what the hell, how was I supposed to know I didn't have to murder my brother and lie about it, I'm gonna wander forever because of you, thanks Kojima you fucking asshole
>>98285097
Any day now. It's not like he can be so stubborn until the literal end of the world, right?

>>98285488
but it was god that didn't want to eat his vegetables.

>>98285450
Gave a cursory look over Kinfolk Unsung Heroes&Breed Apart and it does say things like forming substitute packs, dreams of shapechanging etc. and a general sense of wanting to be/idolizing garou. So it's implied at the very least. Though I swear I saw at least one passage that outright stated kinfolk were commonly furries somewhere (mind you, the opposite is not true probably. Most furries wouldn't be kinfolk.)

>>98285034
>Homid-chasing kinfolk
Regular normal people
>Lupus-chasing kinfolk
Unironically beastiality enjoyers
>Metis-chasing kinfolk (if they exist)
Hard to say, either attracted to tragic boy/girl failures(or both), taboo incest babies, schizophrenic and psychotic rapists, or they genuinely want to get fucked by a monster.

Probably a Garou for every type of kinfolk but I imagine a Metis might be too much, considering how they are

>>98285062
>Fianna but without the jockey fray culture, fae fucking, or being hot
Downgrade
>Cult
I don't even want to get into it.
>Galestalkers
It's actually double racist to change a native American tribe's name from a native language to English because you think it offends liberals, even more so when you change nothing else about them and keep them as shifty Jews.

Hedgefag bush……

>>98285360
>>98285450
>>98285506
Idolizing a holy paladin and wanting to be one is a bit of a different idea from wanting to actually be a wolf I think, but sorta. They're kinda groomed into worshipping Garou and if they aren't they're considered weird by the nation at large for not knowing enough about the war. Or worse, a traitor.

>>98285611
I don't think furries=wanting to be a furry and more like, sexually attracted to anthropomorphic animals. Though explicitly the books actually support the "want to be a garou" more than "want to fuck garou in crinos". Shocking considering how weird and fetishy wod sometimes gets, really.

>>98285619
WoD's weird fetishism is usually by the author and iirc, the Coggie book (which does have a lot of sex in Crinos) and other tribe books aren't by the same author as a breed apart. I guess talking about how Kinfolk fantasize about getting knotted by a 9 foot tall 500 pound monster with knives for claws would detract from the thematic consistency of "being a kinfolk kind of sucks, even if you are a furry."

I guess it's also good to note that the weird fetish shit is usually BDSM or power dynamics/rape play in WoD rather than pushing the boundaries with the weirder shit like Mages shapeshifting into tentacle monsters or Tzimisce hermaphrodite stuff, instead having BSD rape orgies or keeping your ghouls sexually satisfied to control them better. All the weirder kinky stuff is in Changeling also
>Pet play
>Monster fucking
>Borderline bestiality
>Fae nonsense is 20 categories smashed together
>Loss of innocence, etc.

>>98285488
>If your child was throwing a tantrum because he doesn't want to eat his vegetables wouldn't you be mildly amused that he's rolling on the floor screaming about how it isn't fair, flipping some toyboxes, and saying he's gonna go live in the woods?
No. Anon, you seem to be psychopathic.

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A bit late, but last saturday's session was fun. We saw Andrew (Nazi Mage), Sanae (Brujah Elder), Adelweiss (Rich German magical girl), Dan (Some guy with psychic abilities), and Daiya (Shoggoth larping as a magical girl) put down a large tainted area that had been giving the Green Vault (Andrew's bosses) a lot of trouble.

First they took out that tainted garou I mentioned before, with Adelweiss taking it's blade arm and passing it to her butler, Ivan. Then they tracked down the source, a cataphract in a golf resort. Long story short, the cataphract got folded pretty fast, with Sanae chaining bullshit for fucking 99 aggravated damage and obliterating him at before his second turn. Brujah elders are scary when they learn 3 dots of vicissitude.

After all that, Adel realized that garou arm was a tainted relic now and her butler was trying to kill her. Ivan had been in a tree like 600 meters away, sniping for us, so she's freaking out. Calls our Toreador Antitribu friend up, who fires a 120mm shell containing VX nerve gas in the woods. Then Adelweiss recalls he was wearing a gas mask, and really starts freaking out. Sanae offers to deal with it, uses vicissitude to disguise herself as Adelweiss, borrows Adel's clothes to really sell it, and starts rushing Ivan's general direction. Adelweiss calls Katarzyna up again for a smoke shell, and Sanae dodges several shots, tanks one, and manages to pinpoint Ivan's location. Before Ivan can react, Sanae rushes into the smoke, dodges one more shot, turns one of her arms into a bone blade, and starts climbing up the tree to knock him out in a single punch.

Meanwhile, Himmler has popped back up and taken control of Berlin, the Second Impergium is forming in the US, and [Ventrue] destroyed England

Oh, and they met up with Oskar Dirlewanger because Adelweiss found a photo of him in the resort, and then Andrew rolled so absurdly well while searching the place that I just went "Fuck it, you see Dirlewanger lighting up a cigarette."

Can one have an infernal pact with one of the fallen? Particularly one of the redeemers?

I’m just wondering if it’s possible to have the infernal pact but oriented towards goodness.

>>98281574
Slashers are retarded. Why do you only get superpowers when you start killing normal mortals instead of monsters?

>>98285986
yeah redeemers need to get their faith like any other fallen, but unlike other kinds of demons in the fallen can't really offer you much as patrons when compared to other demons in wod

>>98285610
Scratch and sniff

>>98286011
It doesn't say that anywhere. Regular humans are, as easy as it is for most people in this fanbase to frorget, an infinitely more abundant target.

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>>98286049
*It doesn't say that anywhere. What makes a Slasher is that you stop caring as much about who you're killing as you do about killing in the first place (though there's no rule against having favorites either). It just tp happens that regular humans are, as easy as it is for most people in this fanbase to forget, an infinitely more abundant target.

>>98286049
Scourges are supernaturally empowered slashers. I guess I should have been more specific.

>>98285986
>Can one have an infernal pact with one of the fallen?
Define "infernalbpact" therevare multiple kinds and they're limited to their respective demon category.
Fallen can't give demonic investments the way high umbra demons can for example.

>>98286087
>Scourges are supernaturally empowered slashers
Yeah, but if you want to get down to it if you're a Ripper you're already curdled on the inside. It's not killing mortals specifically what makes you slide down into Scourgedom, it's just letting yourself succumb to that urge to kill for its own sake (no matter how you dress it up) that erodes your humanity and sends you all the way from normal humanity to being a Scourge.

>>98285936
I do wonder how your ST is keeping track of all of that. Maybe with charts? Relationship lines?

>>98286196
Yeah, I was talking about demonic investments. I just forgot the term.

I’m interested in a good guy version.

>>98286037
So with who are demonic investments made? Also, yeah I’m interested in finding a good boy version of it. From a good-ish demon (like the idea of redeemers)… or perhaps dealing with an angel? Or a spirit larping as one since you established that the actual stuff are weaker?

>>98286196
Didn't anon post a how-to guide on all the different types of infernalism and best practices to keep your soul?

>>98286224
>I was talking about demonic investments
>I’m interested in a good guy version.
>Demonic Investments
I think you've fundamentally misunderstood what demonic investment anon.

>>98284946
the Order of Reason was soul incarnate, once

>>98286040
Why does it smell like a combination of week old sweat and does hard fruit candies you used to get from the quarter slots?

>>98286224
investments are from umbrood demons and they are specifically made so that they will specifically get your soul when you get to hell and there is no good guy version

as for angelic spirits some cloisters and hermetics summon those and they don't really have anything cool going on

the entire point of infernalism is after all that these quick to get and cool powers are the lure demons use to doom you angels have no need for that because they have the cool afterlife where you are meant to get in after a life of hardship and virtue

>>98286235
I can rebrand them as “angelic investments” and swear to pledge my soul to God and goodness if you want. I’d like to know if it’s possible

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>>98286261
Shame. I wanted to be a good guy and also have some of the powers brought by the demonic investments. And I mean 100% good, not slow corruption and degeneration. Could even go like geas, or bans from totems in exchange for such powers.

>>98286280
i think the only thing you have in any version of wod that goes even in that direction is in inferno which a nwod 1e blue book i think there is like 1 line about converting stuff from that book where the demons possessing people are based on the nwod vice systems to angels and how being possessed by a being of pure and utter virtue is also not a pleasant thing

but that's it! they didn't even do the actual conversion and a lot of the demonic powers are based on the 7 deadly sins so it's not as easy as just saying i use virtues to power them instead!

>>98286264
>I’d like to know if it’s possible
No, it isn't.

>>98285238
The masses don't want disco anymore, sorry.

>>98286280
>>98286264
>>98285986
The answer is yes-ish. Investments in particular are modeled on the idea they are the evil option, but there are plenty of other ways to get power from good spirits. Mirroring them outright should either rebalance them or have equally stringent 'payments' to the side of Good to justify them.

The closest thing to a character tied to Fallen specifically with this is that a very high level Imbued can be possessed by an unfallen Angel granting them a ton of potent stuff. But there's also True Faith, Inquisitors, Possessed from Werewolf could theoretically involve High Umbral angels instead of Triat spirits, Imbued generally, the Wu Tian, the Shih [in a very loose sense] and certain Mages.

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What's that anon? You want to make a pact with an extradimensional entity to gain superpowers and use them for good? BOY OH BOY do I have something for you.

>>98286407
This is unironically also a good pick. Or ExWoD depending on how loose your definition of 'pact' is.

>>98286407
but enough about htr

>>98286280
> Could even go like geas, or bans from totems in exchange for such powers.
sounds fun but i think you'll need to homebrew that

>>98286418
>-t. shot through a crowd and killed twenty people at a mall to take out one (1) vampire

>>98286433
the angelic voices told me to blow up that building to kill that ugly vampire living under it!

yes the voices called him ugly. no idea what they been on about recently...

>>98286407
Princess is a very cool fan-splat but goddamn am I going to have a tough time selling it to anyone.

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>>98286433
Don't need to be imbued to fight the righteous fight.

>>98286433
Not every Imbued is a Wayward.

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>>98286488
didn't multiple generations of this retard's bloodline die trying to kill LaCroix? you know the pathetic jobber so useless to his clan the Ventrue sent him to LA on a fools errant to "re-establish the Camarilla" so he could take the fall when things inevitably went sideways in that shithole state?

>>98286921
What did LaCroix even do to Bach in order for such a generational blood feud to follow him from Europe?

>>98286944
Wasnt it because lacroix killed his grandfather or something along those lines?

>>98286921
LaCroix's backstory is somewhat incongruous with his performance in Bloodlines, honestly.
>Merc'd multiple generations of the same Hunter's family (who presumably also had low end true faith or at least were elite hunters in the SoL)
>Sidequested in Africa and turned a far more powerful than himself Nagloper (african Tzimisce) into his mindlessly obedient lapdog
>Claimed Princedom of a major city (that's hostile to the Camarilla) before 200, even held it before the literal plot-armored PC, super anarch Smiling Jack, and possibly Caine himself (at least a Malk Methuselah) actively destroyed him.

Honestly such background accomplishments feel apropriate for a PC (and thus exceptional) Ventrue Ancilla. But then he takes the Sarcophagus bait hook line and sinker, antagonizes his one natural ally in Strauss, and seems blind to the famous Anarch terrorist and what he might be plotting. He must've really started believing his own hype.

>>98287091
>He must've really started believing his own hype.
Considering how all his fuck-ups are all rooted in a sudden and inexplicable desire to acquire and open the sarcophagu, this sounds like a classic case of elders with dominate fucking with a new prince.

>>98287091
>who presumably also had low end true faith or at least were elite hunters in the SoL
Based on what? Bach being that doesn't mean his predecessors were

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>>98286220
About that, I am the ST now. Our original one had to drop out after like 3 sessions due to work schedule changes, but I had been writing the majority of things already, so I just took over. It's why I also have a character here.

As for keeping track, one of the players is doing notes for us all. I also use Google Earth Pro to keep a model map of the earth, as pictured here. We have stuff all throughout the map, but this is where most of it's focused. Might have a Berlin episode soon, however. Our rich German girl is actually a reincarnated nazi and is trying to get an audience with Himmer (and her tie to one of Mengele's students in the form of Andrew might actually get her that.)

>>98285936
Just realized I left something out. Sanae raped Andrew due to the taint in the resort getting to her. Green Vault has a strict eugenics program, to the point even being raped by an elder brujah will get you nuggeted and put in a bootleg 40k dreadnought for a decade. His elders don't know, but the local Tremere regnant was monitoring them and has now bound him as a blood familiar. She says he can go free after 1 year of service, but given we're talking about Tremere, 50/50 odds she's being honest.

>>98287214
But who made him retarded on purpose?

>>98287234
Runs in the family. I doubt they were complete bozo jobbers considering Bach is regularly touted in the game as being one of the SoL's best. It's theoretically possible but less likely that his ancestors were fuckups.

Thinking about it further LaCroix has a lot implying he's not unused to getting his hands dirty, such as personally dispatching the handful of Sabbat that got past his Sheriff, telling the PC mortals are as easy to kill as they are to deceive, his comment about sending Bach's head to the Inquisitor General, plus his background in Napoleon's pretty meritocratic army. It's weird that he goes out quietly after failing a dominate.

Obviously it's because of Bloodlines being rushed and unfinished, but still.

>>98286921
I am unsatisfied by the fact the wiki has little on his stats besides pinning him as Generation 8. He must've spent all his dots on Resources for his Viscissitude 6 bodyguard, tower, and army of guards, but he himself completely ignored Fortitude since he goes down like a chump and put the rest of his dots on Dominate+an ok Generation until that no longer worked. Wish I knew his Dominate score but it couldn't have been that high.

>>98286280
Why not try to get favors and blessings from like say, I don't know, Gods or other less evil beings?
There is no official system I know of, outside of Totem stuff, but there is a reason why mortal heroes getting helped by Gods is a trope.

>>98287091
It is really interesting that LaCroix, for all of his faults, has actually pretty good power base. A skyscraper haven, a bunch of SWAT like mortal forces, a bunch of Ventrue bodyguards, a 7th Gen Tzimisce Sheriff.

If he only had to deal with Anarch or only with Sabbat or only with Kuei-jin. Hell, jus two out of three of them, he could have come out the winner.

Too bad for him his city had all three of them. Plus the whole shenanigans with the Sarcophagus.

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>>98287214
>inexplicable
it's quite explicable
he was a reckless powerhungry faggot who thought the sarcophagus had a methuselah for him to diablerize, and after 200 years of being the ventrue elders' best bitchboy he was ready for a change of pace, lower his generation and be the one calling the shots for once in his unlife and live out his napoleonic dreams
too bad for him that random archaeologist guy was right all along and the whole thing was a 17th century pirate's idea of a prank

>>98285097
>>98285125
>>98285154
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/3GG_66zOqRk

>>98284882
im a mage thougheverbeit

>>98287501
aren't we all

>>98287072
Surely it cannot be that simple. Given LaCroix's bottom energy too, might be other situations.

>>98287311
Could be that (imo) LaCroix went soft after years of letting his Sheriff and influence do all the work for him to properly act on his volition.

>>98287501
What is it with Mages and wanting a Garou Pet/Partner/Bodyguard?

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>>98287641
>he doesn't have a hot garou gf/pet/bodyguard

>>98287447
>the whole thing was a 17th century pirate's idea of a prank
Rewatch the bloodlines ending. Jack is sitting next to the torpor methusela he stole from the ye olde' coffin to make room for more C4.
The city vamps weren't wrong, there absolutely was a vulnerable ancient in that box, but jack most likely left it for the sun after blowing up the box.

>>98287654
I always thought it was just a regular mummy that Jack was sitting with at the end.

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>>98287654
anon that's just a non-magical mummy Jack props up on a folding chair as a joke
Messerach the One-Eyed was just a normal mortal king of Assyria, he didn't reign for 250 years it's just a case of multiple kings of the same dynasty sharing a first name, the norwegian archaeologist literally tells you this if you ask
Jack set everyone up, the massacre at the Elizabeth Dane was staged to get the vampires fighting over the coffin of a random king thinking it was some powerful methuselah or antediluvian, except he replaced the dead guy with a pile of C4 and rigged it to detonate on opening

>>98287654
>the torpor methusela
What makes you think that was a torpored Methuselah? Seemed to me that was just some old mortal mummy with nothing special to it and the bad vibes everyone was feeling was because of the paranoia of a Methuselah waking up, the final nights ARE upon the setting, Caine's driving around in his cab, and Jack's plan. He's brash and nonchalant but he's still a cunning elder

>>98287652
Unfortunately they hate my kind in particular (accountants.)

>>98287683
>Has a logo that looks like the Camarilla logo on his bib
You could make the case, but given the way the game makes dead vampires turn to ash like it's Blade I'm inclined to believe it's a regular mummy.

>>98287688
>hate
Consent is not necessary.

>>98287691
>>Has a logo that looks like the Camarilla logo on his bib
I would assume that's supposed to be the Ankh, which is weird to see on a guy not from Egypt or Canaan but then again the game isn't trying to be historically accurate

>>98287701
Fair enough, just something mummyish

Reminder that while LaCroix is the antagonist of bloodlines, Smiling Jack is the actual villain. He was manipulating (you) harder than anyone else and set off all the shit that went down in LA. He's not your cool vampire uncle, he's a low humanity monster who'd kill an entire ship's worth of innocent sailors, just so he could kill half a city's worth of vampires, just to own the cammies.

>>98287693
I'm not sure HR will approve of relations with reality deviants at any rate.

What do you typically use for honestly convincing someone or something without intrigue, Expression, Leadership, Empathy?

Also, when would you roll Charisma + Subterfuge?

>>98287746
>Charisma + Subterfuge
Probably a personal deception
As for a non-lie probably empathy. Leadership is more for groups or if you're in a position of power I think.

>>98287729
>Checks LA By Night Book
>Demeanor Rebel, Nature Bravo, Humanity 4
Checks out
Btw, do any other Bloodlines characters get stat pages anywhere? It wouldn't surprise me if there were for the likes of Nines or Voerman or Gary somewhere, but I don't know where

What should a medium or necromancer know in WoD, what advice would you give to someone trying to recruit ghosts as unseen helpers?

What parts of Wraith society would they do well to learn to avoid any issues?

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>>98287734
>HR
Grim.

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>>98287641
I just think they are neat.

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>>98287835
We take the h
resources partin Human Resources very seriously

>>98287826
>What should a medium or necromancer know in WoD
Invest in the Psychic power Channeling as much as possible. Seriously, it's one of the best abilities in the game and it's the bread and butter of psychic mediums. Especially if you invest heavily in raising your Chole.

>>98287641
As far as partners go I'd assume it gives some vague assurance the children wouldn't be entirely at the mercy of the supernatural, though I'd certainly scope out the family ahead of time in case the kinfolk are treated like shit

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>>98287868
Bastet are just better.

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>>98287958
>Bastet
sluts.

>>98284914
Nobody sane gives a shit about gWoD. Canon is not something declared from on high, and doesn't exist by decree from corporate legal documents or marketing departments. They can insist that its oWoD all they want, but it is plainly not.

>>98284936
I'm honestly surprised the writers have never included Shinzui Industries in a list of the Technocracy's assets.

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My current character is a Gangrel Meth Head that loves the beach and Surfing.
My original plan was to make him a Mariner with an underwater Haven. But my character quickly turned into a more Urban focused Gangrel who wants to run a Meth operation and own a Beachside luxery Property.
I just don't know if an Underwater Haven matchs my character.

The game is set in Sydney Australia. Does anyone have any tips for my character eventually getting an Underwater Haven? What that would entail and need?

I want to expand my domain onto beach and into the ocean off the coast. if it matters it is in V5

>>98284751
>>98284781
That's half the punchline of the Revised stuff isn't it? That in victory they've just nearly locked themselves on the path to Total Weaver Victory.
>>98287311
>Thinking about it further LaCroix has a lot implying he's not unused to getting his hands dirty, such as personally dispatching the handful of Sabbat that got past his Sheriff, telling the PC mortals are as easy to kill as they are to deceive, his comment about sending Bach's head to the Inquisitor General, plus his background in Napoleon's pretty meritocratic army. It's weird that he goes out quietly after failing a dominate.
I mean, LaCroix still being conscious at all is already going against the usual rules after his dumbass possessed suicide bomber plan.

>>98287311
Not to mention rules wise Fort is one of the better combat skills in the game.

>>98287313
He pulls out the five dot dominate move.