Went to my local FLGS today and still saw a huge pile of these boxes even 1.5 weeks later. I never remember this happening with Dark Imperium or Leviathan.Why is it flopping so hard?
>>98287975My LGS only had three boxes that weren't already spoken for via preorders, and they were sold within a few days after the official release.Probably just depends if your area has any ork players or not
>>98287975Buying the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th edition box sets all together for their original MSRP would be cheaper than buying Armageddon.
>>98287975>static pose marines with not JUST the same pose, but the same look with random "marine armor parts" to make it more obviousThey made certain people wouldn't sell many of these on the offhand market.>speeder thats not THE OLD SPEEDERNot loved anymore. Hating GW by even trying to give them a new one. No trust.>ORKY DORKY BOISPeople either have all the orks or don't want more of them. Also the fact 75pts of marines with heavy bolters can fire 21 times at a mob of 20 orks is rediculous.
>>98287975Recession.
>>98287975Ork part is great but the seller is always the SM half and it is pretty bad this time imo.There's no gimmicky models unique to this set that will be potentially hard to get later on, like combi leftenent, gravis apothecary, judiciar etc. so marine paypiggies don't feel as much fomo.Librarian, Incelcessors and ANOTHER FUCKING sword & board captain are exceedingly boring choices, vang vets look too much like a basic assault squad, gravis bolter dudes look retarded and are giga superfluous.
>>98287975very boring space marine part, the supposedly "old" space marine look is just a pair of mk VII looking helmets and 2 models with some bonding studs in the leg. The "veterans" are pathetic they should have a mix of power weapons and special pistols (mauls, axes, claw, fist, inferno pistols, etc). The supposedly new venerable dread could have saved the marine part.
>>98288348That's funny. I see an exquisitely crafted squad of Intercessors in beautiful Primaris size. Perfect for any player and modeller. Who doesn't need another one of these great units? A fantastic squad of vanguard veterans in dynamic poses. When I look at them it's like I can see them soaring majestically through the air, and with a jump Chaplain to accompany them, you can be sure this unit will be at the forefront, delivering the Emperor's righteous fury!Plus you get 3 most excellent eradicators with heavy bolters laying down pain on the enemy from afar. And a new amazing Primaris scale land speeder! This glorious new unit gives you tactical flexibility and firepower to strike wherever it is needed. And this is without even mentioning the other beautifully sculpted characters in the box. The stalwart captain, the enigmatic librarian, the mighty ancient. This stuff alone would be worth 185 dollarpounds, and you get a whole other Ork army as well!? Truly, criticism of this box and its contents is highly misguided, probably the work of Russian agents trying to undermine the Great British economy by talking smack about the brilliant, glorious Space Marine half of the Armageddon box.
>>98288074Do the orks just lose if you try to play these halves against each other? i.e. is it just not a good set as a contained game?
>>98287975I live in Berlin Germany and in my usual Warhammer store they sold 1 Box on preorder and zero of twelve on release day. They still sit in the shop, no one wants them for 240 Euro. In a second Warhammer Shop they sold one out of twelve, It is just to expensive, about 1/10th of the montly income of a single household. They have searched for years for the magic spot - they exact amount of money they could ask and that the consumer would be willing to pay. Now they overshot it.The mediocre marines do not help, the marketing was ass, the orks are nice, but you need none of the twice. The Indomitus boxes, back in the day, sold out in Berlin, had to be made to order, people were buying multiples. No one cares for this thing.
>>98288531The problem is that in Germany you are literally one goose search away from 30+ Onlineshops that sell this box for 170-180€ with delivery within 2-3 days.That is the price aspect. Next is the sheer size of that box. You can not just put it into your backpack.. it's too big. I would never buy something that big in a brick and mortar store when I can get it delivered to my house for a lower price and free shipping. It certainly does not help the box that the models are kinda boring, but even with good models, people would buy from a local store at full price last.
>>98288531>The Indomitus boxes, back in the day, sold out They made twice as much Leviathan boxes as a result, and made even more Armageddon boxes, simply to avoid to run out of them so early ever again.
I'm looking forward to these bait threads being consigned to history, but they'll probably last long after the majority of boxes are sold. There'll be retarded anons delving deep into the rhodesian ruins to discover an unsold armageddon box on the shelf next to the preserved skulls of kings and the treasures of empires fallen long ago just so they can post it on this dead board
>>98288765My lgs in a decently sized city (for my country) still had some whfb boxes sitting on the shelf when I visted earlier this year. Not tow, whfb.
>>98288531I thought Germans earned decent wages....For an individual, yeah, 1/10th is fair.But for a household, that's pretty damn pricey
>>98288833Not every German earn that much. And most Germans that play or collect Warhammer have their minis so far that they dont need a starter box. Especially with standard molds.
>>982888331.6k after taxes is minimum wage in Germany, but that is literally "speaks no German and can clean dishes" tier. If you know at least something and have some skill you are doing something extremely wrong if you get below 2k net. And if you have a job like that, Warhammer certainly is not a hobby for you.Any proper job makes a lot more money here. We have a trainee here in the office, and he will start to work here "properly" in September. His entry salary is 2.8k. And if he is not completely retarded about his annual talks with our boss, it will only go up from there.
>>98288867>>98288856How much does it cost?It's $500 here from GW, but we have pretty high wages, minimum is $20 something per hour
>>98287975Nobody likes pritranis
>>98288979280€ is MSRP, but LGS usually give 15-20% discount on GW stuff. So you can find the box for around 195 easily.
>>98287975>Recession >Overpriced to begin with>Non synergistic with the actual game. IT'S CALLED A STARTER BOX WHY CAN I NOT START WITH IT?>Ultras larping again >11th edition is supposed to be geared towards tournament play but the box doesn't really seem to have models such a creature would want.>Models in general are kinda mid. No real centerpiece or eye catching models to wow kids.It's amazing you think this box set would be good to begin with. It looks basic as fuck
Now the dust has settled, what did it do right?
>>98289122Literally just terminators and a dread, they're more exciting than vanguard veterans (who look exactly like the normal jumppack guys) and a speeder
>>98287975Is the squad of 3 heavy bolters as mediocre as I'm imagining it to be?
>>98288066Adjusted for inflations and tariffs?
>>98289141Tyranids are cooler than orks. And terminators are indeed awesome.
>>98289122TerminatorsIf Armageddon box just brought back old armor marks it probably would've sold out. At least Ork players are happy but then again every kit is an ork kit.
>>98288775My local store moved. But before they moved in 2024 I think they still had like one or two daemon Warhammer Fantasy Battle boxes.
>>98289122Termies and a vehicle people might want
>>98287975I'm socking away money for the new Necromunda edition/starter and the Chaos Warriors characters. The marine half of Armageddon looks very perfunctory and I know I'd probably never get around to the Orks(maybe as Kill Team NPOs). I had way more FOMO for the Leviathan starter. (I don't even like 90% of the Bighammer players around here but there's always a part of me that thinks it might be fun to play again). >>98288196I've been seeing human signs again. And conventionally pretty white women delivering sloppa for DoorDash. Recession is definitely in full swing. Soon to be upgraded to Depression if Trump can't just take the L in Iran and tell the Israelis to go fuck themselves. All the offices here are laying people off but they're also expanding the 'burbs at breakneck speed. Weird time to be alive. Things are tight right now, thinking of moving back in with the rents for a couple years just to build up a proper nest egg again and pay off my car.
Because we're in a recession and an economy held up by an AI bubble.
>>98287975Marine half is the most boring marine half possible. I think the only way to make it even more boring would be replacing the LS with a Rhino.
>>98288979Minimum wage in Germany is €14 but average wage is €25-€26.And like >>98289014 wrote. You can get the box in Germany ranging from €195 to €175.
>>98289186The heavy bolter squads get an extra shot for every 5 enemies, per gun.One of those guys shoots 7 times at a squad of 20 orks.
>>98288531Wait are europoors more poor than my third world country?Local store run out of all 24 starter that GW sent.
>>98287975It's a bit expensive and 10th killed a lot of interest in the game. Anecdotal evidence but it's selling moderately well at my flgs. I think we ran out out leviathan two months out and Indomitus about the same
>>98289357IQ there is higher.
>>98289122Terminators. People thought they were going to squat them. It was kinda insane to see them again.
>>98289383Oh I know, there is a reason why we are third world country, retards still think GW sells good stuff.>IQ there is higher>GermanyNigga please, Germans must be among the most retarded euro nation. Destroying their own nuclear power plants is a africa level of retarded.
>>98289386Imagine squatting one of the only actually cool units smurfs have. I would sooner squat all other marines except Termies.
>>98289402They tried with gravis lmao.
>>98289468>primaris are the future>proceed to remake old marines since even the paypigs have some sense of taste
>>98288765These bait threads are made every time there's a popular release. We love them and they will never die.The funny bit is, if there isn't a "why X flop?" thread for a product, then you know it's actually flopped.
>>98289474There are so many Primaris units that already got soft retconned it is crazy. It's like almost all flyers going extint before they updated the chaos rhino.
>>98287975>op is so out of touch he has never heard that a recession is at full swing and lives in his mothers basement so hard he doesnt know that people need money for other things than silly plastic men
>>98287975>yet MORE primarislop, another edition without real Marines getting updated models>Orks, after they already just got a big model line refresh relatively recentlyThis box is for no one, that's why.
>>98287975My hope is that people are finally realizing that 40k as a game sucks fucking ass so there's no point in keeping up with editionsAlternating Activations in 12th
>>98289949If you want AA why not play it? There are like 4 homebrews that have it. This is the best one, made by AAAnon.https://mega.nz/folder/EqRzATpY#veXSXgaGG23c462K4ppDJg
>>98289949OPR did the "40k with AA" thing already and while a marginal improvement still broadly sucks. 40k as a game system is ass top to bottom, no one change will magically fix it.
>>98289914What model line refresh did they get? The boys I guess?
>>98289949I don't think AA works very well with the breadth of units and army compositions in 40k. Even a Clones vs B1 spam list in Legion is the difference between like 11 and 15 activations. Imagine playing custodes with 7 activations vs Tyranids with 30. You'd sit around with your thumb in your ass doing nothing
>>98289390No, Germany is high IQ but also high in autism.
>>98289667Are they soft-removing flyers from the game? Fucking finally, what a historical mistake those were
>>98290098NTA but there are numerous ways to balance this out, which has even been done in GW games before - see Kill Team. Have you actually played a game with AA before? Most of the good ones have some sort of rubber-banding to mitigate activation advantage.
>>98290185Yes. Legion. Like I said in the fucking post. Also MCP and BAIs reading just a dead fucking skill nowadays?
>>98290185>>98290261And Necromunda and KT 2nd. They're still close to each other. And in fact when I run Cawdor and have 20 acts vs 8 it's a lot to deal with, even if I basically have autoguns and no armor
>>98288469Not really, no. Add 5 nobs or 10 more boys and it’s probably fairly balanced
too expensive, plz make cheaper. thx
>>98289319>I've been seeing human signs again. And conventionally pretty white women delivering sloppa for DoorDash. Recession is definitely in full swing. Soon to be upgraded to Depression if Trump can't just take the L in Iran and tell the Israelis to go fuck themselves.cheetoman can't do anything, data centers and replacing mid-level employees with ai, outsourcing and h1bs has hollowed out the economy. The beancounters will then cry "why aren't the wagies buying more cars and houses and vacations and sloppa" when no one can afford it. A consumer economy can only work if you don't have malicious retards laying consumers off, otherwise people will focus on survival- which should have been obvious but I guess not.
>>98289319>'burbs at breakneck speed. Weird time to be alive. Things are tight right now, thinking of moving back in with the rents for a couple yearsamericans are not living in the burbs, it's h1bs replacing them.
>>98289122The tyranid side sucks such massive dick in this. 10 flamers is also terrible. The box was carried by the dread and the termies. Probably the space marine characters too
>>98290293>>98290300There's something weird/artificial going on with the Indian H1Bs at my work. They just go for walks outside for hours at a time. I hear guys who are supposed to be SEs talking to the help desk about basic stuff. They just stand in busy hallways like NPCs. I knew plenty of respectable Indians in the 00's(my mom's doctor, the local restaurateur, a couple professors in college) but these new arrivals are nothing like them. I think like AI it's a big scam. They're artificially trying to discipline the native workforce(the boss class is still mad about the pay raises and WFH/flex options everyone won during the Covid era).
>>98289122>>98287975Armageddon is worthless for existing Marinefags. It's only cool for newfags/people starting Marines. This significantly cuts it's appeal. In half, if not more even.Leviathan, Indomitus and Dark Imperium are great for newfags and existing Marinefags bothThe only thing for Marines which Armageddon has is a Jump Pack Chaplain. At best Vanguard Vets and that's it. And neither of which look cool. Chaplain could be good if his pose wasn't so absurdly, ridiculously fucked up.Repeat of a Bladeguard HQ from IndomitusAnother Tacticus Librarian when Gravis Librarian was neededAnother Tacticus AncientGravis with bolters are too similar to Heavy Intercessors. Even Plasma Eradicators to mimic Space Marine 2 Heavy would work here betterLand Speeder was already refreshed into Storm SpeederAnother Intercessors instead of obvious TacticalsPointless release for people who already have Marines. It doesn't utilize Primaris gimmick to come up with new units and it doesn't nostalgiabait hard enough by refreshing old units like Leviathan. It's fucking nothing.
>>98289319How can a grown fucking adult willingly consider moving back in with their parents.Don't you have fucking shame?
>>98290261>>98290274Hence why I was specifying good system's with AA, anon.
>>98287975The second the boxes are paid for by the LGS, GW made it's bag.It didn't flop for GW, they will report this is the best selling one yet (because for GW it is). They get to strong arm the stores into buying far more than they need. Not GWs (immediate) problem they sit on the shelf If suddenly they gave away a bunch at Adepticon you will know they made too many (but once again, the sotre paid for it, so GW lost zero bucks).
>>98290370theres a massive difference between the old (want to be american) and the new (want to be indian in american)
why does it not have a Runtherd??
>>98290370Well without going into what some consider conspiracy theories, leaders speaking in public panels at the WEF were saying that workers have grown uppity and needed to be out in their place and accept lower wages and give up their ambitions of WFH.I do think lots of the layoffs are coordinated and the H1Bs are probably more emotionally charged, angry decisions than logical business ones. The boss class is human after all, not as coldly calculating as we probably believe.
>>98290446You didn't. You asked if I had played a system with AA, and then mentioned in a new, unrelated sentence that good ones have rubberbanding mechanics. MCP has priority and BA has random activation. I'm not sure what system you're referring to because you haven't named one, but most of the ones they sell in FLGSs I've tried. Also BTAS has reverse movement and shooting prio. I haven't played Infinity or Quar. What should I play?
>>98287975Space Marine half is uninspired and lacks a cohesive theme. Take a look at Indomitus and witness the beautiful sword and shield Marines with a sword wielding Judiciar, some Eradicators with a cool melta gun, and a cool Chaplain as well. Some basic troops of course, but you need some basic guys to go with your awesome HQ. This Armageddon box is heavily relying on people simply liking red. Orks looks great though, particularly the Weirdboy. Only Spess Marines sell though, same with Leviathan.
The best way to handle AA in games is to take bolt actions system and go one step further: have unit specific random activation. So many alternating activation systems turn into this stupid gamey dance of using all your chaff to stall. Having forced activation solves this.
>>98287975A bunch of people will probably come in here accusing you of lying or shitposting, and maybe they're correct. But just for sake of discussion I'm going to pretend you're speaking in good faith and consider the possibility that the box really is flopping.For me the obvious reason is that these Space Marines are offensively bland. It's just such a non-release, nothing here is exciting or new, just rehashes of stuff we've seen before, and all of it ugly Primaris designs that people hoped they were moving away from with the Terminators last edition. It feels completely phoned in, the Intercessors swapped like two helmets but still lack 90% of the detail and variety of the old Tacticals. The Vanguard Veterans are barely different from the regular Assault squad and totally mogged by the old vets in terms of detail and variety even moreso. The Land Speeder is just a straight downgrade from the classic design, it looks weird, they made it too long and gave it all these Primaris vehicle quirks. And the stupid Gravis guys are just a gun swap on a unit that already exists with retarded gun shields.Back in the day GW got away with putting Marines in every started because editions came out every 5-6 years and still had plenty of stuff to update, now its every 3 years and they're at the point where they are releasing new versions of primaris units that were already new just a few years ago. There's an upper limit to how much of this shit even the most devoted marine paypigs will gulp down.
>>98289122Terminators that were nearly a perfect 1:1 recreation of the original Firstborn design scaled up instead of some Primaris trash, plus the Tyranid half was fucking god tier for nids with a bunch of extremely cool new designs and nostalgia bait in the Screamer Killer and Von Ryan's Leapers. It was also like $50 cheaper than Armageddon except I would have paid more for this box than I would for the Armageddon marines.
>>98290465GW still operate a fuckton of brick and mortar stores of their own where they need to sell these, anon. They're not making as much as you think.
>>98287975Dark Imperium wasn't a limited edition box, it was the starter box throughout the entire edition. So either your LGS had terrible stock, or you didn't play during 8ed.
>>98291988I think in theory most of these complaints could be forgiven if this eas actually a beginner's box; you're not going to complain that the marines are too similar to the previous ones if they're literally your first guys.Problem is these things have gotten way too expensive to actually be a viable way for most newbies looking to try out the game. They're now more aimed at existing marine/ork players, people that are on the fence of being marine/ork players, or MAYBE fans of other gw systems looking to get into 40k.
>>98287975>Why is it flopping so hard?People are poor. Also, people are leery about 11th edition and are waiting to get a better feel for the ruleset before spending their increasingly limited disposable income.
>>98292260Yeah 11th is probably one of the least exciting edition releases we've had. At least 10th, even though it sucked, was brand new and so that built hype for people before the less discerning ones figured out that it sucked. 11th despite being an improvement is mostly just more of the same so most people who hated 10th aren't coming back and most people who feed off hype aren't really getting hyped.
>>98287975Every new release is basically the same >new comes comes out>/tg/ is deluged with trolls claiming it's flopping >retards routinely take the bait and start trying to rationalize the obvious no evidence bullshit >cue the GW is doomed!!! retards>6 months later>new GW financials statements >"record profits, we've had a great period!"
>>98294107High IQ people can tell the difference between trolls who are obviously bullshitting and the legitimate thing, anon. This box is not doing well.
>>98294141I'm sure you have plenty of proof and not just the usual anecdotes. Right?
>>98294173If there was proof we wouldn't even need to discuss it. Like I said, High IQ people can tell, from linking patterns together. People like you need incontrovertible proof because you cannot read a situation.
>>98294187Nta but you sound like a colossal retard
>>98294215Very smart people often do come across that way to actual retards.
>>98294187>High IQ people can tell, from linking patterns together.Your patterns are "some dipshits on 4chan say so". You are incredibly gullible if you believe them. Especially since they are proven wrong every single time when GW posts financials reports.>People like you need incontrovertible proof because you cannot read a situation.Buddy, /tg/ cries foul about every single release. "GW is doomed and nothing sells" is spoken like a mindless mantra around here. You're the one who can't tell he's being bullshitted by spammers.
>>98294222You assume 4chan is the only place I look for information, which is about the level of stupid I expected from someone like you and immediately undermines any legitimacy of the rest of your argument.
>>98287975>Marine side is garbage tier>New primaris shit that was already around and needed no updates>Actual new Jump Chap is lame as fuck>Brand new Gravis Heavy Bolter unit. Who asked for this again?>Sad nostalgia bait Shitmaris-style Land Speeder. Why did they even make the Storm Speeders then?>Ork side is better but still far from a 10/10>New Ork style, while better than 8th edition style, is still not great>Choppas are way too dinky>Weirdboy is pretty weak and not much of an improvement over the older one, other than plastic>Conspiracy theory: Orks seem to be dwindling in popularity as the premiere Xenos faction, probably because GW has cemented them as the dedicated cannon fodder faction, jobbing even more than fucking Eldar by now>More and more pople getting into printing and realizing you can still benefit from it without actually owning a printer (every single guy in my LGS has more prints than official minis by now).>>98289122>New termies that were an actual good update>"Big" vehicle>Ancient Nid sculpts finally update and finely so>Cheaper>More points
>>98287975No UltramarinesNo buy
>>98294237Go ahead, enlighten me. Post your sources.
>>98294258I like my ork half, but I only bought half because I have so many SM from the last two editions and desu these were the most meh round of marines anyway. I have no idea if this is selling well or poorly, but even though I have 2k worth of guard like I have 2k worth of SM, if the other half was guard (Kreig specifically) I think I would have bought the full box
>>98292030For me the biggest difference is the price. I bought Dark imperium for 125 dollars from my flgs and indomitus cost 169 from walmart. I dont get paid twice as much as I did in 2020, 300 dollars is just a huge price tag to stomach. Warhammer prices have inflated to such a tremendous degree over the last 7 years or so its ridiculous. But people keep buying it, so I cant really blame GW when everything is always out of stock.
I'm not buying it because it costs too much and I am not doing well financially atm. Even if this was a great point to get back into 40 or get into a new army, I know that this is just a starter and it will cost a fuckton more to expand.Honestly it feels cozy say no when I'm priced out of a hobby
>>98288066>5thNothing is topping Assault on Black Reach, they're never going to release a box like that again. It was too good a deal. I've seen more of those melta dreads waddle out of a pod than I can count. I have seen multiple hordes mostly made up of those Boyz and led by that Boss. Those koptas were the only source of them for over a decade for some stupid fuckin reason. Even the naked termies were an easy arm swap away from usable, less if you wanted the cyclone launcher. It's an easy direct comparison to make since both boxes are Marines v Orkz.
>>98294767Funny thing is if you take about half the Marines from this current box and half the ones from last edition's Leviathan box you get the exact line-up of Assault on Black Reach, except the new Dread sucks by comparison and intercessors suck compared to Tacticals.The Orks half is almost the same as Assault on Black Reach with a Warboss, 20 boys, 5 nobz except in the new box they are broken up into the Big Boss, Banner Nob, Painboy, and two boyz mob leaders, and a Wartrakk and Dakkarig instead of Deffkoptas, plus 20 gretchin and a Weirdboy.
>>98294767Somebody made the same argument for the fantasy 7th edition starter set. It was so ubiquitous and it flooded the secondary market to the extent that till the very end of WHFB it was almost impossible to rub into a dwarf army that didn't have that little plastic cannon, or used those derpy but lovely thunderers. And I don't think I've ever seen a greenskin player use any other night goblins besides the ones that came in the starter set.These starters were truly meta defining, maybe not in terms of games, but definitely in terms of collections. I fear that we will NEVER have such good deals again from GW when it comes to starter sets.
