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My first D&D adventure was "Beneath the Twisted tower". Which I am pretty sure was only ever published with the revised FR boxed set

>>98291399
That wasn't in the original box set?

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>>98291369
>First played
U1, Sinister Secrets of Saltmarsh. Although when I read through it now its pretty clear the gm did some different things with it like fighting a carrion crawler in the kitchen of the haunted house and skipping the pseudodragon with the lizardmen.
>first ran
Tomb of the Iron God, its was recommended in old osr stuff and I thought it sounded cool so picked it at random. I ended up changing quite a bit as well so I suspect its a normal thing to be doing.

>>98291473
I don't think so. The only info I can find lists it only in the 2e box from 93. I was wrong it wasn't the revised box but the gold box. Which I honestly thought was called the revised box.

Unsure what was on the original grey box.

>>98291500
Saltmarsh is a classic you see brought up now and then. I really need to get around to reading the original

Tomb of the iron god I started reading recently. Thought it might be fun to run with S&W if I got the chance.

>>98291625
Its a short read. I think the haunted house is a bit small but I don't think it mattered much when we were playing. Its nothing spectacular but it hits a lot of classic pulpy adventure vibes and there's a pirate ship.
Tomb of the Iron God is neat. I added some orc equivalents who had gotten lost to add some interaction besides the undead.

>>98291663
I ran part of the 5e one, so really need to look at the OG version. I do so like that classic pulp vibe

>>98291369
>Welcome to Open OSR. This thread is for open OSR discussions of [...]
That repetition is striding. Remove the second "open"

>>98292226
Good point. I'll update the OP for the next thread

>>98292226
How about this
>>Welcome to Open OSR. This thread is for discussions of TSR-era D&D, retroclones, neoclones and broader OSR-adjacent and retro games.

Has anyone here ever run Stonehell?

>>98292557
lmao, this guy again
ask about mud sorcerer's tomb next

>>98291369
>First played
Haunted Halls of Eveningstar
>First ran
The Shattered Circle

>>98292275
Yeah, you can eliminate the whole repetition.

>>98292822
Those have a pretty solid rep. I don't think I got to read or play either

>>98292794
I'm not sure who you're mistaking me for, but this is the first module I've asked about on OSRG in years.

>>98294778
NTA but there is a guy who asks for that and the other one like every thread.

That being said, I have never played, ran or read it. I honestly had never heard of it before the other guys weekly spam

>>98291369
>>> What was the first d&D or OSR adventure you ran or played?
Played? The default module that came with Basic
>DMed
Saltmarsh modded for AD&D but spent years referying Marvel and Star Frontiers before that.

>>98294778
Yeah, sorry buddy, but like >>98294937 says there's a sperg who asks that exact no-context question all the fucking time, apparently in the hope that a bunch of other anons will start talking about it between themselves and he can, I dunno, vicariously imagine playing it or some shit? Either way, he does it regularly enough that you legit just looked like today's issue.

>>98294778
(Also, this isn't OSRG, OSRG is at >>98264675)

>>98295283
Never seen any of the Basic mods. Saltmash is brought up a bit. And MSR was my 2nd RPG, got to play it a bit back in the day

>>98294937
>>98295304
Wow, okay. I can understand the reaction to it a little better now.

>>98296034
First guy here, yeah that dude kinda pisses in the pool for everyone. Sucks you got hit with a stray though

>>98295456
Marvel Super Heroes has an interesting system, especially because FASERIP and the power rankings really capture superheroing.

>>98296096
It really does. Excellent system honestly. There is a retroclone just called FASRIP as well as another website keeping it alive.

>>98292557
JFC dude kill yourself already

Quit putting multiple of these threads in the catalog wtf is wrong with you, fishfag?

>>98296681
This is the real one thoughbeit, the other Open OSR is Fishfag's fake one that stole the name. He already got one deleted earier but the second one passed for some reason.

>>98296681
Look at the OPs. The real Open ISR threads all use this or a slight variation of this threads OP. The other one uses the name but always an anti osrg OP.

We have no control over that guy trying to hijack threads.

>>98291369
>What was the first d&D or OSR adventure you ran or played?

B2: The Keep on the Borderlands. It's actually how I ended up getting into OSR. We were chatting and I mentioned thinking about jumping ship to b/x for my next game but not wanting to port my usual hub-and-spoke based setting over and he sent me a link to it. Been here ever since.

>>98297897
>don't notice my trolling Anon just let me derail your thread with seething bro come on you don't understand how 4chan works if you don't let me fuck the general up with my whining
kys fawg

>>98297806
B2 is one that just keeps getting used and rehashed. Just something about it and the very name is invocative

>>98297956
Just hide and ignore that guy

>>98291369
Lost city. Never finished one sadly cause I have bad luck in finding a group that can handle not playing cookie clicker or watching something as they chat on discord while playing. Need to hunt for the unofficial 5e Goodman PDF of Lost City cause I heard good things about since the books are out of print. (If anyone know where to find it and the others, let me know.)

>>98297956
>my thread
again this is not how boards work
you confusing it with your private discord server (it's not one)
good luck with your ongoing battle to privatize an anonymous board

>>98298155
Let's try something. You make a thread, use the name osrg but your own OP and report back how that goes.

>>98298082

I mean, there's a keep, and it's next to some borderlands, and that's pretty much all you need to get started. It just works.

>>98298100
Goodmen has a decent rep when it comes to adventures. It's kinda what they built their name on.

>>98298438
Pretty much, it's just a good start to many types of campaigns. Something about the keep on the boarder of civilization just works for so many people.

>>98298082
>>98298438
>>98298526
Waow, this is such a real conversation! It's so full of content and definitely not just aimless blather!

>>98298580
>schizo blather
Kill yourself, Fishfag.

>>98298385
>you do what I tell you
again you are giving of reddit/discord-tranny vibes
this is not how the internet works
you wanna try something, YOU go ahead and try something
I'm not here to do your bidding

>>98298587
>one of the /osrg/ trolls reveal he's in this thread
Absolutely no surprise.

>>98298580
so that's what's happening
that explains a lot, thanks for clarifying, I'll be sure to hide all OSR threads
you schizos need to chill

>>98298602
I think that might be part of what they're hoping to do; make threads outside of the /osrg/ just as awful as the /osrg/ is just by being in them, while trying to use them as a platform for their "we are correct, everyone who disagrees is one person" propaganda.

The secret is to just ignore them, and it's kind of easy to do. There are certain features of their dogma that make them stick out, and it's even possible to employ just three word filters and kill the majority of their posts. Filtering "fishfag", "acks", and "gygaxian" hides most of what they talk about and makes them incredibly easy to ignore.

>>Filtering "fishfag", "acks", and "gygaxian" hides most of what they talk about and makes them incredibly easy to ignore.

The quality of these threads improve greatly by doing this. I highly recommend

>>98298602
No, you'll keep shitposting too.

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>>98291369
Anyone here have experience running a Stennard campaign for DCC?

Really like the look of the unique classes and the optional rules.

>>98298599
Everybody hates you, fishfag. Nobody needs to post in /osrg/ for that, just reading a thread you're trolling in is enough.

>>98298705
Haven't heard of it, but I don't keep up with DDCs myself

>>98298705
Why don't you ask what their experiences are instead of this bizarre and name thing where you just ask if anybody has ever heard of something or ran something?

Do you people ever actually have any thoughts that go through your brain, or is it all just fluff?

Why is it that you fagots complain about what osrg does in its own thread, but then insist that you need multiple threads up on the catalog simultaneously?

>>98299588
OP here. I have no clue what osrg does as I do not go there. I recreate this page when it hits page 10. The other one up is someone who took the name but uses his own anti osrg OP. None of us have any say over that guy.

>>98299576
It's pretty simple really. He's doing this because it's not a real organic conversation attempt, he's just looking to bump the thread with plausible-seeming posts. But because he's an absolute nogames with no knowledge or experience of anything OSR whatsoever, all he can do is namedrop modules and settings he read a blog post or saw a Youtube video about.

>>98299667
We can't trust you at all, because aside from your professed ambiguity on whether 2e is OSR or not along with your insistence to push the "it's only one guy" lie hat only the /osrg/ trolls push, we caught the guy who makes the hijacked /osrg/ also making these additional pro-troll secondary threads.

If your plan is to split the true OSR threads by pretending to be part of them while trying to demonize the people of the true OSR threads, consider that you're really depending on people extending you the benefit of the doubt and you keep demonstrating you deserve none. At some point, only you and your fellow trolls will bump these threads with the same chatter you have in the /osrg/, while the rest of us will have already moved on.

>>98300020
Dude, I started the Open OSR threads. I have alted the OP now and then with time, but I still have the file with all the OPs.

There have been at lest one other guy who made modified OPs, but stuck pretty close to the OP. And then the 3rd guy who just uses the name and his "fuck the osrg they are mean" OP.

I have been consistent. I post a new one only when the old thread hits page 10. The others run to post a fake thread as soon as bump limit is hit.

>>98300085
To be frank, I don't particularly care what the OP says or who makes it, as long as it's not lying about the OSR. The other Open OSR was fine, and your pussified version just served to split the thread, and also does nothing to keep the trolls out improve the situation.

I can't really trust you. At all. Calling the other thread a fake because you want to be best buddies with the trolls is where I have to put my foot down as you being the problem, and with no logic behind your actions at all except from the stance of you being a falseflagging troll.

One of the trolls having made both an /osrg/ thread and a pussified Open OSR thread is where you can't even act like there isn't a reason to distrust you, and yet you imagine that you can win people over by just repeating the same proven lies the trolls try to push.

>>98300150
I don't give a fuck if you trust me or not, but if they don't use the OP and name they arnt open OSR threads.

>>98300150
Kill yourself, fishfag.

>>98300020
>the true OSR threads
Lmao
Besides, you're the splitter, nigger, you're the one who keeps stealing the Open OSR name for your shitty malding thread

>>98300085
You're wasting your time trying to talk to Fishfag tb h, he's only ever going to try to muddle the issue and dodge responsibility. He doesn't care about this thread or the OSR, only about his retard jihad.

>>98300150
>I have to put my foot down
lmaooooo

>>98300839
I kinda figured it was one of the trolls. Not sure which is it but one always hated threads threads as they don't attack the osrg

>>98304180
>>98304214
This is my fault for not thinking you were stupid. Of course this is post bump limit. Every thread ends on page 10 when it can no longer be bumped. I allow a thread to hit page 10 after the bump limit.

>>98303757
>one of the trolls.
>Not sure which is it
Anon, are you new here? There's only one troll with a very specific pattern of constant attacks against /osrg/, and he has a name.

>>98304682
There are a few trolls. I am pretty sure there has never been one guy. Based off the 24/7 posting alone it has to be at least two. That is not even counting the other group.

>>98304180
>>98304214
Lmao, retard

>>98304384
If it's any consolation, this was indeed very obvious to people with a normal amount of wrinkles in the brain.

>>98304946
I personally thought it was. I didn't think I had to baby step them. You think years of DMing would have taught me you need to explain things as if people are really dense at times

>>98304946
I have CHWS cerebral hypowrinkliness syndrome and it was clear to me as well.

>>98306009
kek

>>98298705
Let us know what you think after you run it.

>>98304180
No. I'll make the thread when it reaches page 10. Don't tell me what to do.

What is everyone's favorite source for a pirate/Sea based game? I was listening to some Sail North this morning and it got me thinking about such games. Which made me think of ones I ran in the past, which included an FR game set in the Sea of fallen stars.

I recall using the Source book Pirates of the Sea of Fallen stars. Which was a pretty good one back in the day. It made me kinda wanna see what else is out there. So what have y'all used?

>>98307445
SAKE TTRPG. It's not well known but blows the rest out of the water in my opinion.

>>98307709
That is is kinda left field. Asian based fantasy with a point buy system. I am looking over the free basic. Not system relevant, but while the maps are nice I hate the 3D art

>>98307709
Is this really an OSR game?

>>98307911
NTA, but doesn't seem to be. It's not based off OSR rules or concepts AFAICT. They really reached for that name though.

Looking though some OSR "pirates" stuff and I discovered Frog God did a swords and Wizardry version of Razor Coast involving Frank Mentzer. Which is honestly pretty cool

Ugh

>>98307445
Pirate Borg is way better than it deserves to be considering the foundation. In terms of pre-made stuff, my gold standard is Secret of the Black Crag. Skerples also has some solid resources on his blog for nautical stuff if you want to go looking for it.

>>98312381
I never checked out Pirate borg as Mork Borg just annoys me lol

>>98312555
okay

>>98320288
The art stylings makes it unreable to me and it seems very rules light. Which is something I don't tend to enjoy

>>98299442
It's a 3rd party setting for DCC with it's own classes and mechanics with the goal of a more gritty and 'low power/level' vibe.

I wouldn't be surprised if the creator was a massive fan of WHFRP 2e.

>>98299576
>Why don't you ask what their experiences are instead of this bizarre and name thing where you just ask if anybody has ever heard of something or ran something?
Wut?
Idk if I'm just fucking autistic but isn't that basically what I asked?

>>98299833
> an absolute nogames with no . . . . experience of anything OSR whatsoever
Unfortunately true. I haven't been able to find a group or get one together for this as my group only plays DnD5e and some of the FF Warhammer games.

>>98306304
Fingers crossed I can get a group together and do that.

>>98325944
Fair enough. I skipped DCC when it came out because of my dislike of race as class. I know it has its fans but that is always a deal breaker for me.

>>98328140
That's fair. I personally like it but I can understand the issues people have with it.

Stennard is actually written as a human centric setting tho as the creator felt that the demi-humans made it too high fantasy.

I personally disagree with that as you can make Elves, Dwarves and Halflings gritty and fitting. But you would still probably need to ditch their classes as most modules he has written were with his homebrew classes in mind which are a bit more specialized and not as flatly powerful as the core games base classes.

>>98329327
I agree with you non humans can fit a gritty game just fine. Look at things like dark suns, that is gritty as fuck.

One of the issue with race as class is just your point here. They don't work if you do new classes. As you need to rebuild them anyhow.

>>98329380
Yeah that, and pigeonholing an entire race so narrowly are the biggest issues. Something like Class Kit's would help with the latter issue.

>>98329534
I have always found race as class as stupid and too limiting. I just can't make myself play a game that uses it.

>>98329597
I somewhat agree. However, will admit will give ACKS a pass as you can make your own classes/races. Even if you used their premade classes Elves and Dwarves have multiple classes so you're not stucked as the "elf" class or "dwarf" class.

>>98330383
It's "axe", you dumb turbonigger. "Adventurer, Conqueror, King" is a reference to Conan's character arc and pronouncing it "axe" is a reference to the Kull story By This Axe I Rule. All of this has been completely on record basically since ACKS 1e came out.

>>98330383
Hi Fishfag.

>>98330525
>Nuuuh, I called you a fashy washy, you're meant to crumble into dust!
Know what, I hope it is a dog whistle, I hope Marcis himself contacts you through his secret network of gangstalkers and air looms and tells you so personally.
Not because fascism is good but because you're going to make yourself look like a schizo retard screaming like a homeless doomsayer trying to prove it.

>>98330586
Li'l niggy already got contacted via the air loom too many times, that's why he's acting like this. There's only so much lengthening a brain can take.

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>>98329850
The ACKS system of just having a set of classes for humans, a set of classes for elves, a set of classes for dwarves... it's a good system. The entire problem with race-as-a-few-perks is that it combines weird with class stuff. You can do stuff like "thieves are good at seeing in the dark" if you don't have a race that sees in the dark plus a class that wants someone to see in the dark.

It's interesting that every game usually picks up exactly one idea and plays with that but almost nothing really combines them. Like the AD&D 2e kits were a genius idea, but the AD&D 2e classes didn't have enough baseline meat to give stuff up coherently to allow kits to be that solid. But they still had shit that is copied to this day, like the barbarian kit that brought the rage mechanic into its mostly modern form, copied by OSR games and 5e / Pathfinder games alike.

I wonder if there's enough class power budget to do something like "race-by-class" like ACKS does but also something akin to the PF1e/AD&D 2e kits and still have it actually feel old school at all. I dunno.

>>98329850
It gets no pass from me. It's the same stupidity but with more complexity and steps. Just separate the two for fucks sake!

I can't believe there are genetic deadends who genuinely seethe at such normal systems. Why they would even come here of all places is beyond me.

For me personally race as class was stupid as fuck when I learned of it in the 90s. It got even stupider when I learned it was not even originally part of d&d. It's just such a stupid and needlessly restrictive idea to me that it's a deal breaker in a game for me.

Race plus class is a character optimization minigame.

>>98332217
Once you make class or professions a thing you opened that door. Race as class is dumb as fuck.

>>98332112
Race-as-class is pretty much there from the start. The differences are minor. We're told all dwarves are fighting-men, can't go past level 6, then we're told the advantages dwarves get. Halflings are all fighting-men, can't go past level 4, and then it goes over their (weakass) perks.
The only thing that isn't strictly race-as-class are elves, who we're told can advance to 4th level fighting-man and 8th level magic-user, and can freely switch between them between adventures.

This is basically race-as-class.

>>98332325
Race-as-class is awesome but you need to think of it as "each class is race-restricted". This lets you make different types of heroic dwarf advancement without having just a small pile of dwarfy things that every dwarf has.

>>98332417
I will keep thinking race as class is stupid as fuck. Feel free to like this bad design choice all ya want though. To me, having race as class is a sign of bad design.

>>98332112
>>98332325
>>98332478
>bumpfagging by insistently repeating a flamebaiting opinion

>>98334176
No.I simply responded to posts as I am doing this one. I don't like race as class, that is not flamebaiting that is reality. I find modern games using it to be lazy ass game design. Be they ACKs or something else, pure ass laziness and keeping what I find to be poor design.

Early D&D can get a bit off a pass on this stuff. They were figuring things out and honestly had a limited view of things. Just because they get a bit of a pass on design,don't magically make me like race as class.

>>98334350
Race as class means you have a very restrictive bag of abilities and zero difference amin anything . But only for some options, other options you have split it and given yourself choice.

Race as class is lazy and stupid as fuck game design.

>>98334458
I just Stated I hated it and found it stupid. You made no points other than you found race class split lasier somehow

>>98334452
Race and class is for snowflake spakledogs who can't handle playing something that isn't a peacock. Wanna be a dwarf? Great, you're a fighter, now fuck off.

>>98341626
It's not my thing, but I can see it making sense for a 1980s game aimed at kids. I think it's poor design, but I can at least kinda see how they got there.

Modern games using it makes no sense. Even OSE plays fine with separate race,/class showing it holds back more than helps.

>>98341790
>Modern games using it makes no sense
You not liking something isn't the equivalent of it not making sense.

I'm sorry that you want to be able to play your multi-classed gully dwarf paladin magic user OC donut steel, but they people who play games that use race as class, are there to play a game, and not role play some epic bacon donut steel.

>>98344379
How does it make sense only one race has options? If you are making more than one option for races by making more than one dwarf, you have done more fucking work than you would have just splitting them.

More work, more complexity, but still a very arbitrary restriction

>>98344379
"Hard" race-as-class where your class is literally "Dwarf" from which there is no divergence begs a lot of exceptionally dumb worldbuilding questions that pretty quickly dissolve any sense of the rules reflecting what's going on in-setting, thus causing a not-exactly-rarely detested contrast between the "roleplaying" and the "game" that winnows down the audience. Your own complaint is a fallacious "slippery slope" argument because it's reliant on multi-classing rules, and even with them ability score minimums that must be met by rolls would neuter it anyways. To say nothing of just restricting multi/dual-classing by race as was the norm of the TSR days.

You're certainly welcome to be a dungeon/wilderness-crawl purist yourself, but the characters in fact being characters instead of formless boxes of mechanics for their players is kinda central to the Paladin's basic concept so in any game that HAS a Paladin with a Code of Conduct preserving this entanglement comes across as a pointless sacred cow unless you can explain quite thoroughly why no alternatives would produce the desired restrictions.

>>98344410
>make sense
Why does this fantasy game need to "make sense" for you?
Why does having fewer options disrupt your versimillitude of the world?
>>98345024
If you want to have a bunch of half elf sparkledogs running around, that's fine, but at my table if you want to play something other than a human, then you simply play as whatever you are that is not human.

Anything else "makes no sense".

>>98345145
>Why does this fantasy game need to "make sense" for you?
>Why does having fewer options disrupt your versimillitude of the world?
While this section is replying to a different anon, "verisimilitude" IS the world "making sense" on at least a loose level, which is terribly strained if entire races that are supposed to have independently-functional polities are strictly typecast in single niches.

>If you want to have a bunch of half elf sparkledogs running around, that's fine, but at my table if you want to play something other than a human, then you simply play as whatever you are that is not human.
Why does this HAVE TO mean one single option in place of class choice, instead of softer non-player-controllable lockouts from racial penalties interacting with ability minimums or separate defined class lists? What about having them be separate parts of a character's mechanics are you assuming pries open the door for "sparkledogs", and why are NO alternative sparkledog-prevention measures sensible to you?

>Anything else "makes no sense".
We're talking about the underlying game design here, violations of DM-as-dictator is not a valid counter-argument. Again, once you HAVE a class like Paladin that actively uses in-character behavior requirements as a distinguisher between classes and balancing dial for game-mechanic power in the first place you need to do a lot more explaining for only humans having such variance.

>>98345024
>"Hard" race-as-class where your class is literally "Dwarf" from which there is no divergence begs a lot of exceptionally dumb worldbuilding questions that pretty quickly dissolve any sense of the rules reflecting what's going on in-setting
I disagree on this one. It's pretty easy to justify this in world building terms, just say the cultural roles of people who go adventuring is much narrower for dwarves, elves, etc. than it is for human.

D&D isn't and shouldn't be about simulating an entire fucking world (this is one of my bigger issues with ACKS), it should be about effectively simulating the experience of being someone who goes searching for treasure in dangerous places and, at later levels, leveraging that into political force.

>>98345145
>>Why does this fantasy game need to "make sense" for you?

Good world building means the setting makes sense and has consistent logic within it self.

Race as class makes zero sense. You have set up every other race as robots with little freewill or choice. They are like ants, assigned one set of skills and no option for anything more.

This makes no sense when you have humans who have options to be anything. Even a dwarf raised by humans in a human village can only ever be a dwarf class. Meaning they are more like animals with built in talents they gsin with age.

>>98345531
>It's pretty easy to justify this in world building terms, just say the cultural roles of people who go adventuring is much narrower for dwarves, elves, etc. than it is for human.
All the way down to only one such profession for EVERY race other than humans, even with regard to outright outlaws looking to start a living wholly outside their social norms readily represented by Thief/Rogue?

>D&D isn't and shouldn't be about simulating an entire fucking world (this is one of my bigger issues with ACKS)
This simulation costs LESS space than the alternative of a full class entry, however truncated by reference, by defining only differences from direct re-use that a great deal of can often fit in a handful of compact tables.

>it should be about effectively simulating the experience of being someone who goes searching for treasure in dangerous places and, at later levels, leveraging that into political force.
What is the reason this "should" have the "at later levels" be a constraint on what you can start as instead of just limiting the level to where the innate aptitude, knowledge-base/power-source, and/or political legitimacy cut off?

>>98345620
>Good world building means the setting makes sense and has consistent logic within it self.
And everything I presented is logically consistent to itself.

I'm sorry that you're fantasy game doesn't allow you to play your donut steel. If you don't want to be a human, that's fine, but you're not going to play some stupid minmaxxed or sparkledog garbage anywhere near my table.

>Uhhh but it's bad game design, it doesn't make sense!
Maybe on planet retard

>>98349145
>I'm sorry that you're fantasy game doesn't allow you to play your donut steel.
There is a very, VERY large space between "I want to play a Dwarf who is literally anything but the one stereotype reflecting literally anything else from their society, even if it's grounds for removal" and "donut steel sparkledog". Address the alternatives that have been suggested such as separate restrictions on multi/dual-classing, softer typecast enforcement via limited but non-singular class lists and ability score minimums, or reflecting limits on standing of other pursuits with level caps in game design terms instead of just continuing to pound "but I don't want sparkledogs at MY table".

>>98350016
so you just want to have free rein and get your half-ogre half-drow MU/FM/Thf spakledog.
Got it.

I remember my "epic character" phase in middle school. Grow up.

>>98350739
>so you just want to have free rein and get your half-ogre half-drow MU/FM/Thf spakledog.
No, I do not want complete anarchy, just SOME degree of vocational freedom for literally anyone but humans. I keep giving you examples of other constraints to prevent this, shut the fuck up about your retarded non-sequitur of an ad-homonym and address why they are unsatisfactory.

>I remember my "epic character" phase in middle school.
It's a thing in the rather large bulk of OSR systems, merely intended to be a difficult thing to earn. I see no reason why this should not extend laterally to accessing content you're already using given limited-player-control inputs like ability score minimums. I would even be fine with the truly off-type class options being locked behind a Lifepath sub-system rolling relevant backstory elements, just as a Psionic Paladin may emerge from a lengthy series of lucky rolls.

>>98350828
Everyone knows only retarded trolls would try to promote a shit game like acks.

>>98350836
ACKS is a superlative game whose rules you don't even know.

>>98350836
ACKS also has the dumbest and least OSR version of race as class. It gives each race a group of classes, but most of these are found in separate splatbooks. it's a transparent and lazy way of avoiding an obvious solution (letting people combine races and classes themselves instead of having to select options that are basically just someone having done that for you) in order to try and sell books. Though, looking at the kickstarter numbers that ploy really didn't work.

>>98350884
It's always something with that fucking game.
Shit rules, AI art, retarded shills, politics drama: it's a good thing the game is dying its slow death.

>>98350828
>Bro, people keep saying ACKS to you and you keep ignoring them.
I am operating under the assumption I have been arguing against >>98341626, who after the ACKS mentions of each race having its own fully-separate pool of classes asserted that all dwarfs WILL be Fighters. As >>98350884 mentions it does have legitimate implementation problems, and owing to some manner of obsession with trying to be economical about complexity kit-like descriptions of only changes instead of full class writeups would be preferred.

I'd genuinely be fine with the race-tied kits strongly advantaging "playing to type" in the OSR context even beyond level caps. It isn't a place for my game balance -isms driving me to try to come up with a way to distil the Same Game Test concept into a Challenge Rating factorization that smoothly turns around into an absurdly autistic vertical-slice level adjustment subsystem.

>>98350937
I think the irony is that the biggest thing that's killing ACKS is just people finding out how bad it actually is. The more people talk about it, the more opportunity to showcase how truly awful nearly everything about it is.

>>98351051
What killed it was it getting banned from reddit.
It was gonna be a big momentum push with the shills going all fucktarded about acks 2, but when it lost that market it was basically fucked and its never gonna recover.
RPGs just take awhile to completely die. My bets the shills are gonna keep beating their dicks for maybe another year, two max.

>>98349145
>>everything I presented is logically consistent to itself

Not in any fucking definition of those words I have ever seen. If you think all races are one dimensional NPC races with no free will except one snowflake is "logical" and "Consistent" I don't know what to tell you.

Could we stop with the ACKs shit? Both pro and Anti. Make an ACKs thread for that.

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>>98351051
4chan is probably the worst place in the world for them to try and promote their game, because they really need some sort of mindless echo-chamber in order to avoid people talking about all the enormous flaws the game has. And, 4chan can have a field day picking apart even decent games, while ACKS is a certified shitshow.

I remember one shill just started spamming pages of the different classes for several hours just by himself, and that ended up turning into people laughing at just how awful and obvious the generated art was, while the shill tried to argue that it didn't look like AI at all to him.

That means this infamous six fingered slop guy made its way past not just whatever non-existent QC the publisher had, it made its way past even the shill noticing, but 4chan almost immediately called it out.

>>98351173
Fair.

>>98351051
>that's killing ACKS
Got any proof of this besides you crying on 4chan?

>>98334452
ACKS- and probably some others- have the best race-as-class solution, where each class is restricted to a race. Humans have the most classes to pick from, and some of the most focused. Demihumans have class options that are multiclassed or otherwise themed towards them. Ancient freak races have ancient freak classes. Lizardmen have lizard classes.

It's much better design than race being a tiny set of things that get glued onto a class, and it totally eliminates the idea of a race just being a min-max knob.

The ACKS solution > race-as-class > AD&D's solution (with max levels and min/max perks) >> modern gaming's race-as-bullshit.

>>98352446
ACK is just over complicated bullshit to be overcomplicated. The easy fix is race and Class. Done. Making 17 different "racesl classes" just so you can get a little bit of options but not do the easy fix is stupid.

You will never convince me as as class is not stupid

>>98352525
Do yourself a favor and ignore the ACKShill. He's completely insane and bad faith is his blood.

He'd try to sell you tapeworms as a weight loss solution.

>>98353269
I just don't get the ACK so called fix. It's just complicated to be complicated.

>>98352525
>Making 17 different "racesl classes"
Lmao bozo, ACKS has less race/class options than the 1e players handbook.

Please stop spouting blatantly incorrect bullshit. If you're going to go on a vendetta, at least get your facts straight.

>>98352525
Reminder that the ACKShill is insane and will try to bait you by saying things even he knows is wrong. Something is really fucked up with him.

>>98350873
Good point, actually. I apologize.

>>98354792
>>98354879
I would love to hear your explanation for why ACKS is more complicated in regards to races and classes, when the 1e players handbook has more race and class options.

What the fuck is wrong with this shill.

Still waiting on an explanation of how the number of ACKS classes is complicated when 1e had significantly more of them.

Should be a pretty easy thing to prove, no?

>>98354965
Yeah, it's probably best if I ignore him, and usually I do when he's just crying about how much he doesn't like it, but in regards to something factual like the number of race class options, I feel like reality should be presented.

The reality is that ACKS has less class options than 1e ad&d.

>>98354926
He has severe brain damage and can't count.

The ACKShill is bad faith incarnate and is also generally a piece of shit. I think he's just doing his best to perform damage control right now, and will probably be samefagging with himself for a bit.

>>98354701
>Lmao bozo, ACKS has less race/class options than the 1e players handbook.
If I objectively prove you wrong, like you've been begging someone to do, will you promise to shut up forever?
You seem so confident, so there's no reason to avoid that wager.

Take the ACK stupidity somewhere else. Gods I hate that game just based off its fans. Fucking hell

>>98354701
I don't give a flying fuck how many over complicated race classes you build to try and fix the flaw of race as class. It does not fix the flaw, it just spreads it out and makes it more complicated.


Fuck race as class

>>98355030
He already knows he's wrong and retarded. He's just trolling.

>>98355044
NTA, but it's gotten to to point if they mention ACKs, they are trolling

This shill is actually, genuinely retarded.

>>98355034
They've got nowhere else. They turned their own thread into an echo chamber that no one outside their clique visits anymore. We're probably the last real people he has an opportunity to shill at.

>>98355067
They add a level of complexity as well. Both not to an already too narrow concept. All of those can apply to race class or class.


Race as class still ends up more complex and narrow in every fucking case . Fuck race as class.

>>98355076
They should make their own ACKs thread. I was more or less neutral on the game itself. Before this shit. Now I hate it just because of the shrills. Fuck that game and any folks who want to push it.

>>98355080
It doesn't help that his game does it in the dumbest way it can be done, and then throws in feats and templates that are an absolute shitfest.

Just ignore him. He's just here to shill and troll.

>>98355093
No one except them would go in. They're basically fucked, because the only interesting thing about their ovecomplicated heartbreaker is just how retarded its creator/fanbase are.

>>98355017
Can you think of anything that race-as-multiple-class does that CANNOT be done with race+race-mandated-class-kit? Off the top of my own head, the best I can come up with is a complex unique subsystem for the race's abilities constituting a WHOLLY novel class, but you can just do that anyways as an outlier case while keeping the compression of direct re-use of common class mechanics of having "the Dwarfs' counterpart to the standard Thief" be just "the Dwarf race's Thief kit"

>>98355067
In my case, my heartbreaker desire is to boil all this shit down so the "class" is JUST the common core locking in the scalars needed of the party role by the desired mechanics then a set of other "vertical slice" slots for secondary scaling-reliant fields (e.g. the "second-line" melee of the standard Cleric) then a pool of ala-carte resources with the budget eaten into by the "secondary" slices' thickness. I am unsure how well this can be mapped to OSR, because it's for ripping out the clunk of full-gonzo 3.X buildfaggotry.

>>98355080
I'll give you narrower, but Race-as-Class can DEFINITELY be simpler than handling sufficiently powerful monsters as races. Just look at how many ways WotC convoluted and fucked up the matter in 3.X.

>>98355102
I... Do not think you understand what is being described as "narrow". And per my previous statement of economical complexity, that pileup is still simpler than covering even a tenth the mechanical breadth in ACKS-like race-as-multiple-class, let alone in purist race-as-single-class.

>>98355058
Ah yes, an active successful game that people play is... trolling?

take meds

>>98355043
>I don't give a flying fuck
apparent
>the flaw of race as class
ah, the mask drops. you just hate Race-As. Thanks tho!
>>98355030
Please, do so! Show me how many classes there is in ACKS2 core, and show me how many Race/Class combos there are in 1eAD&D.
I'll wait!

>>98355034
I just want to say that trollcow has been describing ACKS as a “ faithful retroclone” for a long time now and I really haven’t even begun to goof on him for it. I wasn’t going to do that this week anyway, I’m just letting you know, it’s coming.
Also wanted to say that the /osrg/ had been pretty cool lately.

>>98355116
>>98355126
Yeah, they tend to invade these threads because no one else cares about that bloated game

>>98355223
>trollcow
>and I really haven’t even begun to goof on him for it
>I wasn’t going to do that this week anyway
>I’m just letting you know
>it’s coming.
lol, fishfag has schizo delusions.

2e AD&D is far more bloated, un-playable, and un-played.
At least people actually play ACKS.

>>98355221
Son, I have said from the front I hated race as class, it's stupid and I think it's stupid. There was no fucking mask to take off, you are just retarded

>>98355256
>Son
>Y'all
fuck off, fake hillbilly faggot

>>98355167
>>'ll give you narrower, but Race-as-Class can DEFINITELY be simpler than handling sufficiently powerful monsters as races.


Simple does not mean good.

>>98355263
>Simple does not mean good
It does mean the opposite of "complicated" however.

>>98355223
ACK is a neoclone. It's not a retroclone. It's a mix of pre 3e and post 3e mechanics. Which is not itself a bad thing. But it's bloated and has a very fanatical and often stupid fan base.

>>98355267
Not in all cases, no. If you are doing more than one race as class of the same race it's moved back to complicated and out of simple. It's actually more complicated than just separating race from class at that point.

>>98355271
lol wut?
ACKS is BX based.
Are you smoking something, or just intentionally obtuse?

>>98355276
>simple isnt the opposite of complicated
Not even sure how to reply to that.

>>98345620
>Race as class makes zero sense. You have set up every other race as robots with little freewill or choice. They are like ants, assigned one set of skills and no option for anything more.
As another anon mentioned, you’re seeing that all dwarf PCs are stuck in one class path and you’re taking that to mean that all dwarf characters in the world are somehow the same, this shows that there is a lot that you don’t get. But the guy you wound up arguing with is some sort of memelord retard and I mostly just feel bad for you.

>>98355282
They havent read the 1e DMG, haven't played D&D, and likely havent even read the books for it.

Fishfag's MO is aggressive smug ignorance on a game he has never touched.

>>98355281
It’s more true to 3e than it is to B/X. 3e is truer to B/X than ACKS is to B/X. You are a clown.

>>98355293
>It’s more true to 3e than it is to B/X
Would love to see some examples that support this claim!

Does 3e include dungeon procedure? Race-as-class?
Or are you just going to cry that proficiencies=3.5 buildfagging?

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I did the checking. Overall, ACKS has 21 race/class (RC) combos, where as 1eAdvADnD actually has 33 options, much more! This gulf increases even more when you factor in multiclass options, bringing the RC total of 1e to a whopping 55 options!

Even accounting for the OC donut steel classes of ACKS, this is still a lot less options, bloat, and convolution (multiclassing, eg).

And as for ACKS' demihumans (excepting Zaharan/Nobirian which are entirely optional setting classes), the ACKS2 demihumans are basically just 1eAdv RC options.
Elf:
>Spellsword=Ftr/MU
>Nightblade=Thf/MU
Dwarf:
>Craftpriest=cleric (technically not valid in 1eAdv)
>Vaultguard=Fighter.

Overall, ACKS2 has much much less overall character RC option "bloat". That being said, I love both ACKS and 1eAdvADnD.

FAG on!

>>98355309
holy based fact checker

The trolls have found this thread it seems

>>98355282
Race as class has some advantages, especially if you've got it in a nice, tight system where certain expectations are made and understood. it's a degree of abstraction, but then again, so are classes in general.

And then there's horror-show games that try to pretend they have "Old School cred" by using race as class but use it in some completely retarded way and make it feel like a sacred cow that should have been slaughtered.

>>98355325
>samefagger relying on an attempt at "compare 1e and all its splats but ignore all of ACKS's splats" misdirection

>>98355355
The term you're looking for is just "samefag" btw.

You conveniently ignored everything that I said, but if you're interested in comparing splat books as well, we can do that too!

Regardless, I posted definitive proof that ACKS core has significantly less class bloat than 1eAdnd core. If you want to include splats, we should definitely look at 2eAdnd, I bet the number for that would easily reach 100!

Gross, it tried to talk to me.
Also, holy shit is he full of bad faith. Just from one attempt to mislead everyone to the next.

>>98355393
>bad faith
That's part of it, but he's also just genuinely retarded.

The argument was about how ACKS did race as class in the worst way, and he's just hoping to have everyone ignore its bloated splatbooks which make the problem all too evident.

Complexity in itself isn't bad. Needless complexity in the face of simpler options that work better is though, and that's basically what makes bloat bloat instead of useful content.

>>98355429
The point you made earlier was that ACKS race as class is more "complicated".

And like I said, if you want to include "bloated splats" then we should directly compare the number race class combos in 2e and all of its splats. (I will take it easy on you and not include kits, that would be like shooting fish in a barrel)

>>98355393
Can you explain what in particular was bad faith about that, or what about the post was misleading?

It seems like the presentation was pretty open about what it stated, with the numbers to prove what it was saying. I'm very curious about what your argument is, outside of "my feelings were hurt"?

>>98355442
>The point you made earlier was that ACKS race as class is more "complicated".

He was being nice. "Pointlessly bloated because the designer is a retard" is a better way of saying it.

1e core may provide more options than ACKS core, but 1e core doesn't feel incomplete, and its options are meaningful, Meanwhile, ACKS was designed with selling splatbooks in mind, and everything feels like an incomplete first draft by someone who has no understanding of how games work. Even his attempts at aping 3rd edition mechanics feels like a guy just plagiarizing ideas he doesn't fully comprehend and stuffing them into his books to take up space.

>>98355309
nta, but it looks like you’re comparing 21 classes to 10 classes, then saying that AD&D has more options because it has more races (and each race gets more classes). That’s perfectly fair, based on my reading of the conversation, but it still makes ACKS look like a much more bloated game than AD&D 1e.
>>98355305
>dungeon procedure
In 3e it’s based on strict time keeping and nothing else, and I still think that’s best, just like I think that racial levels are the best form of race-as-class. But this thread is not a house of 3e, and the real disagreement here is about the things that 3e and ACKS both do that B/X doesn’t do, B/X is a game about going to the dungeon and getting back whereas ACKS and 3e are gameworld simulators (ACKS more so than 3e).
>>98355313
lmao

>>98355477
>bad faith samefagging about some sort of meta-distraction to try and pretend everyone isn't telling you to fuck off about your shit game
Fuck off already, no one wants you here.

>>98355473
>1e core doesn't feel incomplete, and its options are meaningful, Meanwhile, ACKS was designed with selling splatbooks in mind
Can you explain to me what ACKS is missing from core that 1e has?

Because the ACKS2 splatbooks so far have just been race books, expanded material on elves and dwarves.

Also, the ACKS classes are laid out significantly easier to parse than 1e classes.

>>98355477
If you don't want people telling you to shut up, stop trolling with your bad faith arguments and then trying to perform inane damage control like you think that's going to make people want you to shut up less.

You already have your hugbox containment thread where you can echo about ACKS all you want, and instead you're here begging people to shit on you by making stupid arguments that you even know don't make any sense because of the extreme amount of omissions you have to make to try and pretend you have a point.

>>98355515
It's attrition against a guy with no life.

>>98355475
>but it looks like you’re comparing 21 classes to 10 classes
No, im comparing the number of total race/class options, including multiclass, across both games. Acks has less than half the options of ADND, without including splats.
>>98355515
>if you dont want me screeching like a madman, then you shouldnt post online!
youre an unmedicated spastic

Would love to see any example of an ACKS class being more "complicated" than a 1e class. Even a single class-to-class comparison.

>>98351177
>That means this infamous six fingered slop guy made its way past not just whatever non-existent QC the publisher had, it made its way past even the shill noticing, but 4chan almost immediately called it out.

I don't think Mac has any real friends. Someone who can tell him when something is obviously shit.

>>98355566
You seem to have a really sour grapes mentality regarding somebody else's business making money.

>>98355566
or maybe no one fuckin cares, you spaz

>>98355566
I don't think anyone in the ACKS community has anyone that they can talk to about games that they can trust. They need a hugbox around their game just to keep people playing it, in a very "emperor has no clothes" situation where the game would lose any and all appeal if they actually were honest about it for once.

It's why the ACKShill is here and so desperate. We're basically the only people he can trust to say honest things, and he's so tired of his discord and echo chambers.

>>98355620
That sounds like a living hell.
Deserved though.

Can we get on a different topic? So sick of seeing the unnamed games vomit everywhere on this thread.

>>98355620
>I don't think anyone in the ACKS community
except for everyone they play ACKS with (for me its about 15 people), or any one on the ACKS discord

where do you get this schizo info from?

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>>98355689
Sure!
Favorite ACKS lairs and encounters entry?
Im a big fan of vicious cave weasels.

>>98355653
>Deserved though.
you have schizo psycho mentality

>>98355475
>B/X is a game about going to the dungeon and getting back whereas ACKS and 3e are gameworld simulators (ACKS more so than 3e)
insane retardation

when will this hogwild anti-acks troll finally get banned for shitting up the board?

What other modern games uses race as class. Don't mention the fucking troll game.

>>98351173
Nah. This is an open OSR thread, ACKS is on topic here and it's the perfect game for most players, so of course it gets discussed extensively.

>>98355877
Troll.

>>98355853
>the fucking troll game
I dont think tunnels are trolls uses that, no. ACKS does it quite well, however
>>98355879
then just report the post and move on

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>>98355887
>"Open OSR, Not a general!"
>look inside
>anti-acks general

>>98355898
Using ACKS spam as trolling fodder under the pretense that anyone is supposed to look at it and see people wanting to have genuine and open game discussion is some incredibly short-sighted shit.

>>98355076
>They turned their own thread into an echo chamber that no one outside their clique visits anymore.
>t. Schizo in a thread on abslute life support only visited by one schizo raving about ACKS and anons from /osrg/ making fun of him
Lmao, /osrg/ is great and healthy, Fishfag.

>>98355093
>They should make their own ACKs thread
Right after you make your own 2e thread and keep it out of all OSR threads, since it's not an OSR game. ACKS at least is an OSR game, so you first.

>>98355937
Fuck off troll

>>98355948
what a stunning response.
do you really think posting two concurrent ass-ravaged anti-acks "not generals" helps your case at all?

just move on to a 2eg and rid us of yourself.

>>98355964
Once more, It's trolls who use ACJs to troll that causes folks to assume it's a troll game. You trolls do this every open thread. It's never anything but trolling.

I didn't want to but I could always altered the next OP and state "Due to use in trolling ,ACKs is considered off topic for this thread. Please direct all questions about ACKs to the osrg"


After all of the osrg ban 2e over one guy, we can ban ACKs over the handful of you that troll with it.

>>98355936
That’s because the jannies are cleaning up your tirades and the other posters are ignoring you lmfao. I almost think someone could get away with discussing the history of the OSR in /osrg/ now without getting banned for it.

>>98355937
This gets funnier every time I read it.

>>98355979
>ESL nonsense babble
you can and will, do nothing.
>>98355986
>peaceful thread? heh, time to invade again!
you already got spanked by the mods once

>>98355986
Try it and let us know how that works, They still seem to be protecting some posters there.

this is the right thread for call of cthulhu right

>>98355223
>Also wanted to say that the /osrg/ had been pretty cool lately
Weren't you supposed to stay out of it permanently, Fishfag?

>>98356011
i remember that after the mods told him off, he vowed to never post there again

>>98355777
Not an argument :)
It is, at best, a nusr game.>>98355838

>>98355255
Correct. Everything in ACKS that Fishfag calls bloat is at least a functional rule that he just (claims he) doesn't want. 2e is actually bloated, in that it's stuffed full of dead filler, contentless blather prose, and rules that don't work.

>>98356018
>acks doesnt have dungeon procedure or wilderness procedure
>3e has domain play
youre actually broken in the head, you cant even get your arguments straight.

>>98355281
>Are you smoking something, or just intentionally obtuse?
You're talking to Fishfag. Of course he's intentionally obtuse.

>>98356016
Yea but I didn’t lmao.
I’m actually not sure if fishfag prime is still around, is he?

>>98355309
This is how you recognize an actual OSR knower. Bit of a waste writing this effortpost for a troll thread but eh.

>>98356055
Quit samefagging over your [already disproven] bullshit and fuck off already.

>>98355271
It honestly sounds like it might be the 3e-like that Gotham deserves. I don’t know if I would call it bloated, but I know that it’s more bloated than old D&D, and I know that it isn’t what I want from an OSR game. Mostly it’s just funny that this guy is the way he is, I’m convinced that he is the same poster who always greets new posters in /osrg/ and tells them that no OSR game has character optimization (sometimes he will tell them to play ACKS in the same post).

>>98356003
Good to know.

>>98355237
>ACKS dwarves have not just one but two base classes that no other race has an equivalent of outside of the Axioms (Engineer and Fun-Guy) as well as their own unique variant magic system that has an entire class built around it.
As I myself stated in that very post:
>Off the top of my own head, the best I can come up with is a complex unique subsystem for the race's abilities constituting a WHOLLY novel class, but you can just do that anyways as an outlier case while keeping the compression of direct re-use of common class mechanics of having "the Dwarfs' counterpart to the standard Thief" be just "the Dwarf race's Thief kit"

>Their elves have the gimmick of all being Gishes, something that no other species gets to replicate in quite the same way
Mandatory Multi/Dual-Classing.

>That's not even getting into the cultural possibilities. A Zaharan Runeguard actually feels different to play compared to a Paladin despite them both being (technically) human fighters.
Are there such fundamental differences that you cannot think of how they'd be defined by divergence from a shared baseline?

>These are all changes far more radical than you'd see in 3.5/Pathfinder where racially unique class variants tend to be "Oh it's the same, but dwarves get the +3 beard feat at 4th for free"
What about those systems prevents (You) from writing such according to how different (You) wish it to be?

>Look, I'm going to be kind here and assume you're still talking about this without having actually read the book and how it works and just relying on people to explain it to you across 2-3 days.
I'm not talking about fiddly details of ACKS in particular, I'm talking about whether its broad structural commitment is actually necessary for the desired mechanical outputs

>Sitting here going "Well I don't think it'd work" for hours on end isn't getting you the answers you clearly want.
I'm not saying that, I'm saying that it'd take less page and brain space to only describe differences

>>98355334
>The trolls have found the troll thread
MacArthur genius grant en route for this anon

>>98355473
>ACKS was designed with selling splatbooks in mind
lmao, retard

>>98355485
>Fuck off already, no one wants you here.
Why don't you use your mod powers to get rid of him, Fishfag?

>>98355515
>You already have your hugbox containment thread where you can echo about ACKS all you want
LMAO this is always such desperate cope about you comprehensively losing your tardbattle for control of /osrg/, it cracks me up very time you bust it out. "N-n-n-no, the general's sour anyway!!!" Then why did you try to hijack it for years, retard?

>>98355510
>>98355561
>neither of these posts got a single reply
NAYRT but how telling.

>>98355597
Correct. It's the same reason he kept trying to force 2e into /osrg/. He knows nothing about 2e, as he's demonstrated many times; he doesn't give a single solitary fuck about it in reality; he's most likely never played or read one single bit of the game and when other anons started a 2e general he raged beyond measure. He just wants to derail what he sees as a chud general for a chud movement, and 2e was a tool for him to try to do it.

>>98355696
>where do you get this schizo info from?
The Air Loom Gang communicates it to him via shapes in the clouds.

>>98355853
ACKS uses it, and uses it well.

>>98356196
>acks core includes tools to make classes!
>that means having books dedicated to one race is a scam!

also,
>(RPG series) tries to sell its supplement books!
uh...yeah?

>>98355979
>After all of the osrg ban 2e over one guy, we can ban ACKs over the handful of you that troll with it.
Wrong. 2e has never been on topic on /osrg/, because it isn't an OSR game. It was never "banned", it's simply always been off topic, just like 3e, 4e and 5e. ACKS is an OSR game, so it can't be "banned" from an OSR thread.

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>>98355986
>further absolute schizo imaginings

>>98356016
Right, exactly, so how would he know what /osrg/ is like? The lure of the real general is too strong, apparently.

>>98356267
posting isnt lurking thobeit desu

>>98356061
>samefagging
Lmao no, that's you doing all that. There are many of us and only one of you, that's why you lost in /osrg/ to begin with.

>>98356088
It's truly bizarre. Narcissism and autism are a hell of a combo, apparently.

>>98356271
Agreed. This slope-browed zoanthrope tells on himself every time.

>>98355237
>Actually clinically actionable crazy talk. 3.5 had prestige classes with Prerequisites like "Have a +7 in ass play, a degree in patisserie and a BAB of Pi on the full moon in August" and that's more simple to you than "Here's your class, you're in it all the way from 1st onwards, you top out at 14th"?
What I said was specifically with regards to covering the mechanical breadth. Under what you are being an obsessive apologist for, each kind of casting fed through each method of pairing it with an attack needs a class for each race doing it, and thus even after winnowing by having only the most basic 1-2 base class/1 PRC combinations and collapsing all related concepts into single functional definitions, it's still going to be thousands of separate cases to cover you're denying any recombination of smaller multi-purpose elements to compress. This is going to make the flow-chart of what class to play to have a desired set of mechanics VERY complicated indeed compared to the mechanics being presented in a format that let you pick them.

Hence my previous statement about wanting to break all these permutations up into "vertical slices" and ala-carte addons to the minimal party role filling pillar.

>>98356029
Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, Leadership, and Powers of Faerun exist, so 3e "has domain play". But only an utterly mutilated mockery of it.

>>98356257
I once again direct your attention to the oldest-first /osrg/ archive results.

>>98356061
>[already disproven]
prove it wrong. those numbers are factual.
>>98356291
>Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, Leadership, and Powers of Faerun
not core books. sounds like an excuse to sell splats lmao

>>98356291
>I once again direct your attention to the oldest-first /osrg/ archive results.
I once again remind you that there was no need to state the obvious back then. 2e has never been on topic in /osrg/.

Besides, what do you care? You loudly declared that you were leaving /osrg/ forever and started these faggoty-ass slide threads to try to hijack the general/make your own /osrg/ with hookers and booze. The part of /osrg/ should be of no concern to you.

>>98356303
>If nothing else we've had some fantastic insults out of it.
Ive been a fan of "cookie cutter caveman" that ive seen used on him

>>98356298
>not core books. sounds like an excuse to sell splats lmao
Yyeeep. Love me Tome of Magic anyway.

>>98356303
>Honestly, seems to me you just want a point buy system and that'd solve all your problems.
Horrible experiences with decision paralysis, far too many rants about the failures of the Favored Soul in the face of anticipating an ever-widening range of fiddly conditions, and general principle about continuous conscious upkeep of defenses have me averse to going ALL the way to that so long as I'm considering the broad scope-creep of D&D leveling.

>>98356313
>I once again remind you that there was no need to state the obvious back then.
The fact OPs explicitly recognized 2e posting as an uncontroversial recap and multiple pages of scant few suggestions that pretty much all got pushback indicates otherwise.

>2e has never been on topic in /osrg/.
No, you're just a(nother) retarded revisionist. Doesn't matter if "fishfag" still is exaggerating how recent, it is demonstrably not original.

>>98356353
>Tome of Magic
for me, its Tome of Battle and Book of Incarnum.
2e is offtopic for /osrg/ tho sadly desu

>>98356291
Domain play is a meme, 3e has base-building, B/X has base-building.

>>98356333
>machhliwahla
lmao thats a good one. I bet it gets right under his skin.

Not even one single post yesterday, incredible how much quieter the place gets when the fish is banned.

>>98364735
>I suspect that some poor janny is about to get a box of cum in the mail or something.
Unlikely IMO; it seems like one of Fishfag's big life problems is that he can't cum anymore. Many such cases among the dickchopping community.

>>98364716
I am the OP here, not your one guy, but I am honestly tired of getting one day bans by one mod for no fucking reason. Trolls get a pass, folks totally off topic get a pass but if you say certain things within a set window of time you get a one day ban you can't appeal even if it's clear you didn't brake the rules they banned you over.

I enjoy talking about OSR games, but honestly at this point it's not worth the ban to fight trolls and not actually get to talk about OSR games

>>98370366
>I am honestly tired of getting one day bans by one mod for no fucking reason
Buddy, you're bumpfagging a thread that was just about to die. I don't think you're copping those 24s for no reason.

>>98370366
>I enjoy talking about OSR games, but honestly at this point it's not worth the ban to fight trolls and not actually get to talk about OSR games
You know, you could just try /osrg/. The only rule is you can't talk about non-OSR games, if you enjoy talking about OSR games that shouldn't be insurmountable for you.

>>98370407
>The only rule is you can't talk about non-OSR games
According to the fringe lunacy even for Knights & Knaves Alehouse, with a neurotic obsession with trivially-disproven lies of being the original scope of the thread topic. Once again:
>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/subject/osrg/order/asc/
Go forward from the oldest and show me where the rejection of 2e has any indication of prevalence.

>>98370397
It's my thread dude. I was just explaining why I no longer check it much

>>98370407
No. I tried Osrg and got hit with off topic and got called fishfag my very first post. It's why I started the Open OSR threads

>>98370427
Kill yourself, Fishfag. 2e has never been an OSR game and it never will be. Everyone knows this, including you actually since you admitted to the mods that you only want to force 2e into /osrg/ because it's too unpopular to sustain a general of its own.

>>98370451
>It's my thread dude.
And what, you think that's an excuse for bumpfagging a dead thread? Spoiler alert, bumpfagging is almost always done by the OP, trying to force his unpopular discussion topic.

>>98370456
>I tried Osrg and got hit with off topic and got called fishfag my very first post
Well you shouldn't have posted about non-OSR games in the OSR thread then! If you actually like OSR games as you claim, it shouldn't be that difficult to not yap about non-OSR games like 2e and Cairn in that one particular thread.

>>98370562
I was on topic, I simply didn't know the osrg was anti 2e as well it's on topic every where else and always has been. Hell it was allowed a few years ago when I last posted.

So I didn't know things had changed and the anti 2e movement was in control of it. I also had no clue why I was being called fishfag or honestly why a mod warned me for off topic. I had no clue what I said was off topic.

>>98370600
>it's on topic every where else and always has been
No, that's not true.

>Hell it was allowed a few years ago when I last posted.
That's also not true, and when you state obvious falsehoods like this that any thread regular knows are lies, it's extremely hard to take you seriously as being in good faith.

>So I didn't know things had changed
Things have not changed, they've been the same for years and years. Even the mods acknowledged this when Fishfag went bawwing to them.

>the anti 2e movement
There's no such thing as an "anti 2e movement", guy. It just simply isn't an OSR game, nobody (except Fishfag) will try to stop you if you start a separate 2e thread, or post trolling and hate in it. It didn't happen last time there was a /2eg/, look it up. If you really are a different guy from Fishfag (which I'm entirely ready to believe since you write differently and also aren't blatantly utterly insane) you need to understand that there's only ever been one guy insistently trying to force 2e in /osrg/ and this guy tricked you.

The definition of OSR necessarily and totally precludes 2e.

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>>98370562
>Kill yourself, Fishfag. 2e has never been an OSR game and it never will be.
The early years of /osrg/ itself appear to disagree, given the dozens of threads of it being brought up with no rejection I have personally checked. You are welcome to follow the link and show me the earliest clear example of your position, but the absence goes well past conspicuous into disproof by contradiction.

>including you
Nope.

>>98370661
>No, that's not true.
Yes, it is.

>The definition of OSR necessarily and totally precludes 2e
Then get to work properly proving that with an exhaustive list of required features and exact citations for how ALL of your accepted games meet them but AD&D 2e does not.

>>98370456
>I tried Osrg and got hit with off topic and got called fishfag my very first post

>>98370366
>tired of getting one day bans

And so, what stopped you from learning from this experience exactly? Why was this not a wakeup call to stop posting 2e in the OSR thread, as opposed to creating this butthurt slide thread to try to compete with it?

Anyway, you're right that these bullshit threads are not worth it and that you will never get to talk about OSR games in threads crafted specifically to piss off the /tg/ OSR community because we will simply refuse. I don't know what the fuck you were expecting but you should unironically just quit.

>>98370687
Kill yourself, fishfag.

>>98370661
1:Look you can lie all you want but it's a lie. 2e is and always has been OSR and is talked about with the OSR community

2: A number of you osrg folks have pure out stated 2e was banned to remove "fishfag". So you have admitted it was changed

>>98370697
I did learn and didn't go to the osrg but started my own threads. The three babs I have gotten have not been over 2e, but set topics apparently you can not mention.

It's always 1 day bans as you can't appeal those. I get the message and don't say the forbidden thing. But it's set up a clear picture of who is being protected as none where off topic in any way.

I'll stop when my hyper focus stops. I just wanted to talk about OSR games man, I didn't know there was a holy war going on here.

>>98370815
>2e is and always has been OSR
Nope, that is incorrect.

>is talked about with the OSR community
No, wrong.

>A number of you osrg folks have pure out stated 2e was banned to remove "fishfag". So you have admitted it was changed
Also a lie, this has never been claimed by anybody. What has been said, repeatedly, was that in spite of 2e being very clearly marked as off-topic in OP the whole time, Fishfag insistently banged on about two quibbles with the phrasing of the OP text which he claimed allowed 2e in through some sort of deranged sophistic loophole. So the OP text was mildly revised to remove these quibbles and end the question of the loophole once and for all, but it was only ever clarified; the scope of the general was never changed, which is a completely different thing. 2e was never on topic in /osrg/ and this did not change. It was just a question of prose, of removing an ambiguity which to a normal person with functional reading comprehension was never ambiguous in the first place.

Also,
>pure out
You should stop using your catchphrases if you don't want to be identified. Kill yourself, Fishfag.

>>98370856
I am not arguing with you over this. Go to the osrg they agree with your alt history

>>98370834
>It's always 1 day bans as you can't appeal those.
You can't appeal a 3-day either, so this logic is halting to say the least. If you're getting hit with a one-day vacation from /tg/ instead of a three-day ban from the whole board that means the mods are going easy on you; they think you're being a nuisance but not much more.

>I didn't know there was a holy war going on here
There isn't. There's one crazy motherfucker trying to force 2e as OSR and there's a jihad going on in his mind, but everybody else just wants him to fuck off, we're not warring for shit. It's just that if you start threads to complain about /osrg/, and in those threads you make a bunch of out of pocket false claims about /osrg/ and the OSR, obviously you're going to get corrected. You can't expect thread regulars to just let you spread that shit uncontested.

>>98370872
Cry saltier tears, bitch. You know everything I wrote is true.

>>98370877
1: I simply can not discuss this

2:There is a war. This series of threads had nothing to do with that guy but the trolls from the osrg can't let it go. 2e has long been OSR and is in every major OSR space man. They are a very rabid minority excepted no where else who need to control the false narrative they created.

That's how these threads got pulled in. It wasn't "fishfag ". I accepted osrg has an arbitrary list of what they allowed and so just made my own thread. But they can't stop fighting a war they can't win.

>>98370856
>in spite of 2e being very clearly marked as off-topic in OP the whole time
>the scope of the general was never changed
>2e was never on topic in /osrg/ and this did not change.
>>98370877
>and in those threads you make a bunch of out of pocket false claims about /osrg/ and the OSR
I repeat, look through the archive search and show us the earliest example of your claimed-original sentiment. Even into the second page of oldest-first results, there is explicitly-2e conversation with no apparent such blowback.

>>98370912
>There is a war.
No there isn't. Again, it's one faggot.

>the trolls from the osrg
This is a fake idea, there's no such thing. /osrg/ is the thread being trolled, insistently, for years.

>2e has long been OSR
Absolute, complete and total falsehood.

>and is in every major OSR space
No it isn't. Only the OSR plebbit allows 2e as part of the OSR (well, and Big Purple, but anyone who thinks that's a major OSR space is desperately retarded).

>muh rabid minority, muh arbitrary list
It's harder and harder to take you seriously as speaking in anything like good faith, pal. Dial back the whiny bullshit if you want to be taken seriously and addressed like a sensible anon.

>>98370924
I repeat, kill yourself, Fishfag. You've been shown ample proof dozens of times and just completely ignore and stonewall it, trying again is an obvious waste of time. It's simply noose time for you.

>>98370934
You think all the osrg trolls are one guy? There has never been just one guy on either side, even they call at least 4 different posters fishfag. Hell I was called fishfag not 10 minutes ago.

>>98370934
>Again, it's one faggot.
Only if you presume falsification of evidence that in turn renders your own claims unfalsifiable.

>This is a fake idea, there's no such thing. /osrg/ is the thread being trolled, insistently, for years.
The respective volume of active hostile posting suggests otherwise, as does the multiple pages of oldest archived threads I have browsed that disagree with your position being original.

>Absolute, complete and total falsehood.
Due to being a loose movement in association with the explicit loss of authoritative sources, the screeching retards on Reddit, Discord, and so on are in fact more authoritative for the meaning of the common use than a tiny fringe of a tiny fringe forum that hijacked a single general on an imageboard.

>>98370940
>You've been shown ample proof dozens of times
The proof to substantiate the foundational position that anti-2e is /osrg/ originalist has never been offered. You are welcome to show an example of widespread antipathy to 2e prior to July 11th of 2016, giving a full year from the oldest archived at the link previously provided. This should not be difficult if you are telling the truth.

Meanwhile, for the opposite position of 2e being permitted the very first thread in said archive has eleven posts pulled up ctlr+f 2e, with the nearest to yours among them or their replies being the following:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/41160538/#q41172950
>I can just imagine Gygax going to the local library posting a diatribe against 2e AD&D on his library posterboard and some kid with a crayon coming a couple hours later scribbling "OD&D A SHIT." over his essay.

Which appears to be a mocking hyperbole of the sentiment that really ought to have drawn SOME response from your contemporaneous supporters, and yet nothing. 2e material gets mentioned then discussed without issue. People recommend 2e's Specialty Priests to no blowback. Again, this goes beyond conspicuous absence into disproof by contradiction.

>>98370834
>I'll stop when my hyper focus stops
>just flat out admitting that he's posting hijack threads due to autism
KEK

>>98370912
>they can't stop fighting a war they can't win
didn't you JUST complain that you keep getting banned? lmao

>>98370998
>schizoposting intensifies: Manifesto Edition
Kill yourself, Fishfag.

>>98371012
Says the one insisting that posting a screenshot of non-full (You)s is still just one poster to one providing a direct-to-the-post archive link complete with quoting into this thread to support his position.

Do you want a full-ass storytime thread of just going through "2e" results from the /osrg/ oldest-first until your position of categorically rejecting 2e is substantiated or something?

>>98371075
No one gives a fuck what schizo shit you spew. 2e is off topic

>>98371092
Direct archive links are not schizo shit, while incessantly labeling multiple people as just one obsessive despite evidence to the contrary is. And I am merely arguing that 2e was not originally off-topic for /osrg/; it is (You) being a gaslighting retard by making the assumption that it is foundational to your position forcing you to demonstrably lie.

So I repeat:
>You are welcome to show an example of widespread antipathy to 2e prior to July 11th of 2016, giving a full year from the oldest archived at the link previously provided. This should not be difficult if you are telling the truth.
Go ahead. You've been given a link to the exact search required to begin ctrl+f for any keyword you can think of, even a post in the oldest such thread. Do it, shove it in a screencap, then add it to your rotation of "proof".

>>98371075
>Do you want a full-ass storytime thread
No, I want you to kill yourself, Fishfag.

>>98371110
>I am merely arguing that 2e was not originally off-topic for /osrg/
Which is an outright lie. Russian roulette with a fully loaded revolver, stat.

>prior to July 11th of 2016
>the goalposts are now moved to claiming that 2e has only been off-topic in /osrg/ for a full decade
lmao

>>98371153
>Which is an outright lie.
Then surely you can provide clear evidence to this effect from the first year of archived threads.

>the goalposts are now moved to claiming that 2e has only been off-topic in /osrg/ for a full decade
No, it is your side that provided the goalpost that it always has been this way, and so if absent from the first year the foundation upon which your "reasoning" relies is disproven. I will even give you the pertinent 4plebs search link:
>https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/search/subject/osrg/end/2016-07-11/order/asc/

>>98291369
Where do I go to to talk about DCC?

>>98371171
Kill yourself, Fishfag!

>>98371340
There's a DCC thread up right now IIRC; check the catalog.

>>98371397
Thanks anon but that's not the DCC I was talking about. I got excited for a second.

But still, thanks for trying to point me int he right direction. I appreciate it.

>>98371340
Do you mean dungeon crawl classics or Dungeon crawler carl?

>>98371340
I see it's the second, you can talk about it here, I am unsure if it's allowed in the osrg

>>98371480
Dungeon Circus Clown

2e is not OSR