Is Lancer really better than D&D?
Sure, go play it with your friends.
>>98293037got a rulebook for a broke homie?
>>98293035LOL....... Oh wait, you're serious. Let me laugh even harder. HAHAHAHA!Lancer isn't even the best mech TTRPG out at the moment. Just cause some shill got paid to hype them up, doesn't mean we have to humor it.
>>98293035The D&D hate has become too reddit. I'm playing D&D again.
>>98293049I thought Reddit was still was sucking WOTC. I mean didn't they already stop acting like they care about daggerheart? Or did they find another game to act like they care about in hopes they push their political beliefs on everything in it till everyone starts leaving killing it so D&D is the only big tent in town.
>>98293035>Is checkers better than tic-tac-toe?This is how stupid you sound. They’re two completely different games with entirely different goals and aesthetics and intentions.
>>98293058Checkers actually is better than tic-tac-toe though. It's also better than Lancer, so I'm not certain the point you're making.
>>98293035>>98293047Lancer isn't even an RPG, it's a Superhero Skirmish game.
>>98293058uhhh tell that Jacob, no me.
>>98293050IDK I only saw this video's comment section and they talk like /tg/ so either /tg/'s opinion has become mainstream or redditors come here to hate D&D.
>>98293047What're the alternatives? Not being a prickly, I genuinely haven't heard of any.>>98293035No. It, like 5e, is *very* monobuild. Each mech has exactly one gimmick, one optimal load out and one combat trick if you're lucky.It's like Pathfinder 2e, trying to be a stripped down version of 4th ed D&D without the module support or number of options.It's a decent effort and some of the mechs are interesting, but they always have 'get outs' so you never need to make tough calls. Eg: one mech has to overheat a bit to get a damage bonus, but it also has a safety vent which negates any risk from heating.There's also huge gaps such as pilot combat, and outright laziness such as new mechs being free so there's no consequence for losing one.It's fine, we had fun with the one off I ran in the mechwarrior setting, but I feel we saw everything it had to offer in that one off and have no desire to play it again.
>>98293035Lancer is certainly more gay and political than D&D, so if you're into that kind of literal faggotry I guess it'd be better for you than D&D.
>>98293115Battletech and Beam Saber are good options
>>98293040https://www.bing.com/search?q=lancer+core+rulebook+free
>>98293115>and outright laziness such as new mechs being free so there's no consequence for losing one.The consequence is that you have to survive the rest of the mission with no mech. Mechs are only "free" because the game does not bother to simulate a player economy, which in general is way more trouble than it is worth.
>>98293213I guess, but the gimped pilot combat makes that kind of easy from what I remember.Doesn't change that there's zero provision for things like pilot equipment from what I remember. Jetpacks, mobility kits, grappling hooks, anti tank weapons, vehicles, etc. There's very little for players to get their teeth into. Given it came out when titanfall was relatively current I'd at least have expected some rodeo rules.
>>98293207>bingnot clikcing that microlsop
>>98293035If some fat FtM troon is saying so, that really tells you all you need to know
>>98293115Mekton Zeta with a couple of house rules is pretty much as good as it gets if you like to design a mech, and not just assemble one from various pre-existing template parts.
>>98293035This guy is married and (You) are not btw
This guy looks exactly how I imagine lancer fanboys to look like just missing a punch nazis patch and diaperfur patch.
>>98293641Imagine the smell.
It's a wargame with campaign progression mechanics. It's more like Mordheim or Necromunda but the gang is collectively controlled by multiple players than an actual RPG.
>>98293737Where do we draw the line between "wargame with campaign progression", and "roleplaying game"? No, really. Genuine question.
>>98293616But I am married.
>>98293035The best thing they did was take a group of 5e kiddies through old 3.5e modules and show us the carnage.
>>98293806You fool, you weren’t supposed to disprove them. Their post was a clever own stating the FtM hambeast you feel anger towards has satisfied more vague life accomplishments than you, making them societally more valuable.
>>98293794The best way to figure this out is how much freedom the game actually gives you and if you only really have rules for tactical combat.
>>98293824I liked the mockumentary style interviews in the middle. Never seen that anywhere else before or since.Gave me a few good chuckles.>the FtM hambeast you feel anger towardsI don't feel anger towards him. his videos are funny most of the time.he has fallen off recently once he stopped doing the skits though.
>>98293115>>98293172Armor Astir, Mecha Hack and Heavy Gear are also good. And you can't forget Mekton.
>>98293267Not that Anon, but there is the PDF share thread. If it isn't up right now, use the search engine of your preference to find a /tg/ archive and look for the latest instance of the thread.
>>98293956https://massif-press.itch.io/corebook-pdf-free>stealing a balloon on free balloon day
>>98293990>giving itch.io pages clicksShiggy diggy.
>>98293833Its easy to marry some other loser freak when you're a loser freak yourself and many people far more put together aren't married, I think the bar should be "Has a full time job".
>>98293035yes if 5e is not communist and trans enough for you lancer is 100% an improvement
>>98293049ThisI put my new books back in storage and dusted the 3.5 collection offI'm having a better time now
>>98294045>we hate loser freaks on /tg/ get the fuck out of here you tourist
>>98293035It's always kind of pathetic when a D&Drone steps away from the community they built their entire life and livelihood on and they are fucking floored by the way that other games are not just D&D in a different hat.
>>98293367He's not a tranny, he's just very low T
>>98293103/tg/ has always had huge overlap with reddit's hobby forums and anybody who thinks different is in denial. >>98293152>politicalAll mecha anime is political; it's baked into the genre. And their politics are generally not what you seem to prefer.
If you're after a good combat experience yeah it's miles better than anything D&D has ever put out. If you're here to play theater with your friends the system is largely irrelevant.
>>98293058Lancer is just D&D 4e (the best edition of D&D, but only because we needed Pathfinder to fix 3e)
>>98293115>playing Mechwarrior in Lancer >not using Mechwarrior 2eanon...
>>98294608There's a difference between 90% of all traffic directing answers to reddit threads and being an active redditor who regularly posts on that shitpit of unironic feds and wumao.
>>98294608Idk man, Tomino seems to do a pretty good job of pissing off both lefties and righties
QUEEFTOPIA-ANONFILL THIS THREAD WITH WALLS OF TEXT AND MY LIFE IS YOURS
>>98293035>believing anything influsloppas say>XP to level 3 of all people>ngmi
>>98293035But what if I want something better than either? What are my options for top-tier mech stuff?
>>98293086It has just as much RP elements as D&D, the comparison is apt.
>>98295194Fuck off, Miguel.
>>98295214He's not wrong though? The only edge 5e sort of has is that a lot of features are open-ended rules wise. That's not encouraging roleplay that's encouraging munchkins.
>>98293824>>98293874Where can I find this? His channel has scant few 3.5 mentions.
>>98295310Fuck off, Tom.
>>98293035Is pee better than poop? You flush both down the toilet.
>>98294608Retarded take, which is why Lancer is a great game for you.
>>98295520
>>98293115I've had the opposite reaction. Every other mech game plays like total shit, and also have zero support. Mechwarrior is basically a wargame, and is pointless to even consider. It also sounds like you haven't gotten enough levels to get two licenses, which tracks for dudes skimming reddit
>>98293264The robots fire bullets that turn normal people into atomized paste, worrying about simulating person to person combat is meaningless for the system.
>>98294608>All mecha anime is political>their politics are generally not what you seem to preferYou REALLY don't wanna go down that road.
>>98295194I hate to defend D&D, but Lancer has>lol I dunno make up whatever you want and then flip a coin if you're dumb enough to play out anything that isn't a mech fightD&D has actual fucking mechanics tied to who your character is and how they interact with the world. It's not great, but it's better than Lancer's half-assed jerk off motion in the direction of roleplay as a concept.
>>98296434>Mechwarrior is basically a wargameJust like CANCER, except unlike CANCER it's actually a good one
>>98294608All things can be made political, but that happens in your politics-rotted brain, and not the work itself. Also, implying that a conservative's nations art generally supports your gay position is just you being culture/media illiterate.
>>98293035Yeah man I love dealing a fixed 2 damage, or if you're spicy, 1d3 or 1d6, and getting to use your core feature once per multi-session mission, and the narrative play is sooOOoooo gooOooOOood
>>98297662Got to love everything political. I always ask this when they said that shit. "Explain how the book 'everybody poops' is political?"
>>98297797Women are twice as likely to suffer from constipation as men. A book like Everybody Poops teaches children that pooping is a level playing field, and fails to responsibly teach children the inherent privilege in smooth, easy defecation that women are less likely to experience throughout their lives. It fails to properly prepare AFAB children for the unfortunate reality of hard, difficult to pass poops and in so doing can lead to feelings of shame regarding their "abnormal" constipation, and it fails to teach AMAB children to understand their privilege. Everybody Poops perpetuates the misogynist myth of a level pooping field.
>>98297863I hate that I can’t tell if this is satire or not, considering the level of bitchy whiners that exist in the world
>>98297877One of my professors literally believed that all male+female sex is rape. They taught me to kill, but that doesn't make me a killer. Next time anon will just have to find something a little more challenging. Intersectionalism is a wedge, you've just got to find a weakness and swing.
>>98297877Same, I miss 10-20 years ago when you knew these post were just trolling, and were find to feed a bit as you knew most of the trolls didn't take themselves seriously. Now, cause of the apps making it easy for karens and all to access the internet. Now you have these freaks on here and you can't do the classic mock them out. Yet often the Mods won't just ban them when they pop up, but the people calling it out.Though if they're not trolling pretty sure they play Lancer...... Wait, wouldn't a Lancer player push their diaperfur shit into everyone poops and go off on the price of adult diapers and all. So, I am going to put my bet on they're trolling over Lancer player.
>>98297955One guy said anything can be made political, another guy was obtuse/naive enough to say that Everybody Poops can't be interpreted as having any meaningful political content, I decided to demonstrate that it is in fact quite easy to interpret Everybody Poops politically. Not hard anon. Pretending that things can't have a political interpretation just because you don't like said interpretation doesn't make the people you disagree with disappear, it just makes you seem too stupid to be having the conversation. The first anon was right, interpretation is a personal act, the second anon needs to learn that someone determined to make a political interpretation will always do so. The mecha genre is usually about war, kind of a politics adjacent topic. Doesn't do anyone any good to pretend otherwise, just makes you seem disingenuous. Given that "the art is really diverse" is one of the things people have tried to sell me on with lancer I imagine it must be doing something to attract those people. Doesn't mean your game needs to be about an elite squadron of gay sex warriors fighting the space patriarchy. Also I would never play lancer. I have the Big Robots, Cool Starships book for BESM.
>>98293115>What're the alternatives?FFG's Genesys or L5R are both good. Use ExWoD and Dark Ages instead of official Exalted rules. Riddle of Steel, Zwiehander, WFRPG, literally any D&D edition besides 5th, I would choose all of these before modern D&D.
>>98298001I don’t think that’s “making it political” so much as motte and baileying the discussion entirely. Which I suppose is a common occurrence with the kind of person who sincerely says “everything is political” without regard to what that actually means, so fair enough.
>>98297797>teaching children not to feel shame about their bodily functionshow dare you degrade our society with such degenerate filth
Can we put a pin in the "is Everybody Poops political?" discussion, and get back to what the strengths and weaknesses of Lancer are?
>>98299861Nope.
>>98294527Correct, tabletop is the realm of normal White Males. HG Wells didn't need hygiene warnings for his war game group
>>98299861Sorry bluhd, but your discord has no power here. This is now the Everybody Poops general.
>>98294608>And their politics are generally not what you seem to prefer.lollmao
>>98298119Also, there's a difference between a relatively universal theme like, "war/corruption is bad" and shoving the liberal flavor of the week down your reader/viewer/player's throat.
>>98301305One man's universal theme is another man's "shoving it down your throat". There's no accounting for taste.Maybe if you spent as much time making your own BASED game to the audience of BASED gamers eager to spend their hard earned money on a game that caters to normal people instead of tranny freaks, you'd be more successful than Lancer, right? It's not like going into a seething meltie is over this stuff is an uncommon reaction of only a small, but vocal minority who will totally make your BASED mecha game KS blow up.
>>98299906>normal White Males>HG Wells lol try again
>>98301367You're literally the only one seething right now. The rest of us are just having a discussion. Eat less sugar.
>>98301370Go on anon, do your best to associate him with smelly card players
>>98301470HG Wells poopedSmelly card players poopEverybody poops, therefore we are all connected.Checkmate rightoid.
>>98293035Lancer is for one thing. That thing is different from DnD which is for a different thing. DnD's thing is broader and because of its popularity people have created things to make it even broader still, but it's like a cone AOE that has a wider arc but is still clearly pointing in one direction. While Lancer points in another direction. So no. Don't be stupid. You might as well say chocolate cake is better than beer. Better at what? They're not even trying to do the same thing.
>>98293035I got morbidly curious and decided to watch the video. It's fortunately on the shorter side, but also the only thing this faggot has to say is listing off basic RPG features like roleplaying or making skill checks or having a specific build or role in combat, but he shouts them really loud and pretends like he's saying THE COOLEST SHIT YOU'VE EVER HEARD. But actually he's just rattling off dumb bullshit and occasionally spewing some memes he clearly lifted off the Lancer subreddit. He does a piss poor job of explaining the mechanics, even makes a joke at the expense of the boring and dumb as fuck pilot rules, and then goes>NO WAIT THE MECH COMBAT IS REALLY CRUNCHYAnd then proceeds to try and hype it up as being really tactical and gritty and hardcore, unlike all those stupid D&D games where it's the same shit but he just doesn't scream about it so it sounds lame and dumb. Because Lancer has objectives, unlike D&D where you have... quests and goals, or whatever.I think this faggot just wants the Lancer audience to care about his gradually dying youtube channel which has been hemorrhaging popularity ever since the OGL thing a few years back, so now he thinks he can pick up the tranny-filled lancer discord crowd by sucking off their meme game.
>>98294608>"All X is political!"Probably the most massive red flag that a person is some lunatic cultist. Yes, all X is on every Y spectrum. All food is nutritious, even glazed donuts. That doesn't mean nutrition is the priority of a glazed donut.What you jackasses really mean when you spout this nonsense is that you're an annoying cocksucker and you're going to throw a massive tantrum if someone implies they don't see the world the exact way that you do.
>>98301850Nigga what the fuck are you talking about? Every single mecha anime I can think of has politics front and center, except maybe Gurren Lagann. It’s a genre about big military robots fighting, why the fuck wouldn’t there be politics?
>>98301856NTA, Having politics and being political are not necessarily the same thing. Compare:>War is bad and making children fight for the mistakes of adults is reprehensible>Modern day America is racist and evil and run by big dumb racist people who are evil
>>98301861>moralfag grandstanding but I agree>moralfag grandstanding but I disagree oh, now I see the difference
>>98301856What I'm saying is that you cocksuckers use literally everything as a vehicle to push your agenda, and twist everything to suit your endless religious crusade to yap and proselytize about your annoying fucking politics. Can you think about something else for one thread, goddamn.Not literally EVERYTHING needs to revolve around your fucking annoying escapades on Reddit and Shitter. It's so fucking annoying to constantly have to listen to you zealots bitch and whine and yap about politics constantly.Talk about rules, or mech design, or get into the science fiction aspect, holy fuck. I'm so fucking tired of constant sanctimonious whining about your fucking politics.
>>98301869So you don't get it.
>>98301871Is this “you” in the room with us now?
>>98301873Yeah, the first one is the moralfag message you agree with, so it’s good. The second one is the moralfag message you disagree with, so it’s bad.
>>98301878Some people can talk about political messages in a setting from the detached perspective of an audience considering a setting's worldbuilding.Some people have to conform literally everything they experience into binary boxes of 'agrees with me = good' and 'disagrees with me = bad.'When people say "All art is political," what they're really trying to say is, "I'm going to make this about MY politics, and it's going to agree with me or it's evil."Nobody likes being around those types of assholes.
>>98301856There's a difference between politics and ideological evangelizing but retarded leftoids purposefully conflate the two so they can claim if you like LotGH then you should also accept giving away all your worldly possessions to infinity bomalians because Microsoft said Trans Rites!
>>98301856No need for the racism to make your point, pal
>>98293115>Each mech has exactly one gimmick, one optimal load out and one combat trick if you're lucky.You're right about everything else but this is completely false
>>98302382As a black man. Even if the fucker is the whitest of white trash. He gets a pass, cause I said the same thing. Also Zoids didn't have much of a political theme. Just hey here the Liger Zero. Get in and win our team some matches.
The problem with Lancer is that most people didn't get the Third Union is an unholy union of ComStar from Battletech mixed with one of those evil planet-ruling AIs from Star Trek pulling all the strings from behind the scenes. They read the propaganda that says the Union is the nicest, bestest place ever when it's juxtapositioned against them performing their own privately-funded Great Crusade for the computer god and take it at face value, and that seems to have extended to the newer writers.It's akin to those people who think Super Earth is genuinely a democratic federation and can't read the subtext that infers otherwise.
>>98302449No, everyone gets what Lancer is. It's just that what it is happens to be incredibly lame and gay and cucked and unfun.
>>98293035Maybe it's because of my GM, but Lancer feels like a clunky-ass SRPG port into a TTRPG. The combat takes ages, the system's setting is super broad but puddle-deep, and any mechanics outside of battles are hand-waved and super barebones. Superficially it looks cool, and there are things that show real promise about the system, but it feels more like a proof-of-concept system that needs like two more years of development before releasing.Also, something rubs me the wrong way about the setting being post-scarcity. I know some mecha stories share this setting, but it invalidates a bunch of cool character/story ideas. The GM I'm playing with has explained that the main antagonists have taken over a planet for their resources, then had to awkwardly backpedal and assure us there's an enigmatic special resource on the planet they needed instead.
>>98302480The Big Four are post-scarcity, which is an important distinction to make as it means they get to decide when you get cool toys to play with or when you get excommunicated from the gravy train for sympathizing with political dissidents. If your group wants to be real gamers, you can do the latter by simping directly for RA for instance, doing corpo bidding until you have enough resources to do whatever esoteric thing the Omnissiah wishes you to do and putting the fear of They in the space libtards as they leverage their resources against you.
>>98298110>FFG's Genesys or L5R are both goodAs mecha games?
>>98302462Pretty much, the classic rip off another system and change just enough to be different and leave out everything else and keep the world that wide puddle of just troupes and just basically steal someone else lore but change the name colors and maybe add a different hat to make it "completely different"
>>98293035It would be hard to be worse and still get published.
>>98293035Too combat focused unironically.
>>98301878It's the difference between having politics (fine) and virtue signalling (cancer, fuck you)
>>98302604..... You kind of have point there. Unless it's a brand name that's basically riding on it's name. Or has a "corpo sugar daddy"/grant from USAid. Then yeah, most likely would failed. This was just homebrew 4e and cut out pretty much all non-combat.
>>98301856Everything is political by dearth of nearly everything being connected to something in society, but not every show is talking about your specific political issues. Nobody watches an episode of The Big O to form opinions on immigration. There a time and venue for everything, and refusing to recognize that makes you an idiot.
>tqi don't know what you mean by better that is subjective. But for my money I like lancer better than most editions of dnd. I like the theorycrafting of custom mecha and testing them out in game. I ran the adventure (that only got pt 1 of 3) No Room For A Wallflower for 4 friends; 2 veterans, and 2 people new to the hobby and everyone had a blast. I'd give it a 7 out of 10 very fun if you like crunchy combat with a lot of options and rules lite rp stuff. I will say the setting is fine just be ready to make your own lore for your game, and change or ignore the official setting if it becomes a hinderance to the game. Also ignore anyone that tells the game is one way or the other politically and that your game has to focus on politics they are no games. Sure everything is political but not everything should focus on politics. I mean Sonic The Hedgehog is political radically so in some instances but the fucking game isn't about politics.
>>98302446Way to act like a stereotype, a dog answers to its name.
>>98294608retard
>>98302446Game recognized Game, and you're lookin' very unfamiliar right now. Maybe you should go back to bluesky. You can larp all you want over there with the furries
>>98302446It’s in the scorpion’s nature to strike, even if it would kill it.
>>98302449If you speak to any lancer fan about this, they'll call you a chud and tell you you're approaching the setting in bad faith. They have drank the cool-aid totally. The discord has a sticky specifically mentioning how talking about this is a sore subject.
>>98293035They are the same thing.Lancer is to the Mecha hobby what D&D is to the larger RPG hobby.Both are the most accessible, most supported thing in their categories, this doesn't say anything about their quality or how good they are.
>>98302765I understand what you mean; but when the corebook contains this passage, the whole "ignore anyone that tells the game is one way or another politically" falls flat because the book spells out, very clearly, which way the game is, politically.
>>98303828and dnd expects you to play good aligned heroes but most people here have done the opposite. You want to play a xeon pilot fuck are they gonna do about it? I mean part of the setting is that the main government was a fascist totalitarian shithole and you can just play as a pilot during that time "b-b=but the timeline doesn't-" I DON'T CARE
>>98293058Checkers > Chess >>>>>> tiktoktoe
>>98302449I believe this. Consider how K6BD has similar themes. Maybe tom was a chud all along.
>>98303828You actually read this kind of tripe? If it's not relevant to my game, I don't give a fuck what the author of a rulebook has to say.
>>98297463Maybe 30 years ago, but all D&D is anymore is roll a skill check against a DC of 14.
>>98303828Shit like this makes me appreciate HyperMall more
>>98302382>No need for the racism to make your point, pal>soft A n-wordThe elusive triple nigger has posted itt
>>98302449No lol, YOU didn't read it.Yes, it comes across as absurd propaganda. Because it IS absurd propaganda, written by a bay area fag. You'd literally be screamed at and banned from any Lancer community for even thinking that anything you read in the book is supposed to sound negative.
>>98305505It's like the doofuses who think Disco Elysium is anti-commie when it only seems that way because commies are sectarian retards who hate each other more than truly external enemies, and don't know enough about what anyone else believes to portray them in a way with teeth.
>>98303828Lancer’s manifesto fell pretty flat when we got to see how those people operate when in power.
>>98301856Gurren Lagann is about a conflict between pro-natalists and an authoritarian regime that wants everyone to have a sterile existence locked in cubes where they own nothing.
>>98293035All I needed to know about Lancer I learned from this youtube thumbnail. No thank you, good bye.
>>98305505Remember when the original pitch was "mud and lasers" and the very fact the main faction in the setting largely deals with its issues by throwing near-limitless resources at mercs (you) to enforce their will when the end result is more likely to end in heads rolling than a philosophical debate was a very deliberate decision to show that things weren't Star Trek. The Union persecutes transhumanists and RA's followers but its highest level of government both toys with the former and are trying to appease the idol of the latter out of the fear it can disable and deny them the society-running tech that it more or less handed to them if sufficiently provoked: forget the triumph of the human condition, it's all a pyramid of nebulous powers glaring down upon those below them to get them to behave in a way they deem desirable, or else.Maybe it's because I've never interacted with the Lancer "community" versus just having it as another book in the library, but it always feels like /tg/ is describing something more akin to RHW than whatever the fuck Lancer was supposed to be when it came out.
Lancer isn't remotely like D&D. If you want to compare it to anything, Draw Steel is the only real successor to modern D&D's legacy, but its creators are liberal faggots so I hate it
>>98305519DE is very anti-commie thobeight. Not in any of its statements from any of the pulpits your kind seal-clap at, but because it shows you inside the mind of the average commie.
>>98293616Just one more way I'm superior to him.
>>98293794Why would there be a line?
>>98294527You're not in the company you think you are.
>>98301305War is good retard
>>98301878So you don't get it.
>>98306021nou
It's always funny to me how hard mods protect these threads against badwrongthink
>>98296434We got a couple but each individual mech was still a complete monobuild. We didn't play many sessions so possibly it gets more involved later; but I couldn't see anything in the mechs rules that gave me that impression. I'm not interested in an RPG that starts off shit and maybe gets good later on.>>982946284e is significantly better put together than lancer. Lancer gives you way fewer options, and they fit together much less well. "I have to move to get +1d6? Steady on, my brain can't handle a build that complex!". Lancer is for rich theater kids who think 4e rules are "Too hard">>98296440Titanfall managed it. I don't think it's a coincidence that the "Pilots just don't do anything don't worry about it, they don't need rules or equipment" option also just so happens to be significantly easier for, for example, lazy game devs.
>>98304748>HyperMallThank you for bringing my attention to this I am going to purchase this fucking immediately.
>>98296440I dunno, sounds like sticking the party into a scenario where they don't have instant access to their vehicles could thoroughly fuck them up by putting them on the level of the unmeched screwheads, especially if behind the cockpit they were spaceship killer 9000 CE beforehand.
>>98301856>except maybe Gurren Lagann. LMAO thanks for proving you're a moron.
>>98305792>mud and lasersmore like paracausal meta blasters and quantum fireballs lmao
>>98308577>paracausalThis shit pisses me off so much. Just say space magic you fucking hacks. Don't pretend your setting is sci-fi just because you came up with a new word for space magic.
>>98293035>Is a fish really better than a bird?
>>98309377Whatever you say, tabby, go plan the next raid in nechcord.
>>98309452So, FTL in Cancer.You first have to understand that cancer is a low scifi realistic setting about mud and lasers. Just ignore the magical 3d proonters, paracausial AI, and everything else we will cover later. So, of course, all FTL travel is relativistic, which means it takes a minimum of about 100 years to reach the next system over, possibly longer if its at a bit of a distance. You should not stop to think about this because then the question of how these multi system nations hold together really stops making sense. Likewise, the entire war really stops making sense as well - how do you put down an uprising in an occupied system, let alone send the essential resources needed to the frontlines and maintain a supply of war material? By the time the requested supplies get there the soldiers fighting will most likely be dead, or at least well into their 120's, maybe 130's. "Sir, the requested reinforcements arrived!" "Hrrrr wazzat? Isht medicine time? Again?".This actually has a secondary side effect of making players relationships with the people of the system they are in basically pointless. You have a minimal travel time of one century, so assuming you 180 and head straight back as soon as you arrive in system, you will return to the planet 200 years later, in perfect time to greet your friends great great great great great grandchildren. Your actual old contacts are long dead, and the culture and architecture of the planet has changed drastically since then. So this completely disincentives your players from actually interacting with a planets populace or forming relationships. In fact your NPC's might as well be gray human shaped blobs. Whats the point of having living people? Whats the point of making interesting NPC's?Well, actually, about that.You see, Cancer claims to be an RPG, but in reality, as others upthread have noted, it is really more of a pocket wargame. Rules for out of mech actions? Barebones, they might as well not exist.
>>98309512Your character, out of the cockpit, has whatever gear makes sense, as adjudicated by the GM. Actual rules for them doing stuff largely come down to "roll some dice and make it up" with the GM having to improv massively. There are not rules for human scale combat with the excuse being (as I have seen in this thread) "mech shots would just vaporise a human". Yes, and you know what? In Battletech the smallest weapon a combat vehicle or mech mounts will turn a human into a carbon stain or a large puddle of gore. Mechwarrior, and all other BT pg's still have detailed rules for Humans and dismounted, unarmoured, humans operating in the same area as mech combat is taking place. Lancer doesnt because Lancer devs dont see this as worthy because humans will just die lmao so why bother.I mean, a raid by specops on the pilots base, trying to kill them whilst they are dismounted, an ambush where one or more pilots are out of their mechs, an attack on a staging grounds with the players frantically trying to mount up to escape, an infiltration job to sneak into an enemy base and steal vital data, moving in to rescue dismounted friendlies/ejected pilots, leaving your mech to enter a bunker to capture a VIP or rescue prisoners (the Cincinnati Battletech group actually did that in one of their insane campaigns), and dozens more reasons as to why having rules to let dismounted humans operate alongside their mechs all seem like a great reason to have such rules to me, but eh, what do I know. Mech show up and all dismounted humans immediately explode into red mist, thats just how it is.Speaking of, what is a mech? And how does one represent it in a wargame or rpg?
>>98309452I always sort of figured Lancer was just Bay Area Libtard Imperialism as a power fantasy with the players as the technicolor-jackboot wearing enforcers of a totalitarian regime of luxury beliefs and status quo enforcement.
>>98309572 Well, if you go by the other games in this genre, you typically have multiple hit locations, components that can be damaged or destroyed, systems that can be knocked offline, etc. It is possible for a mech to take multiple nasty hits, have an arm blown off, lose a couple of weapon systems, and some sensor clusters, and fight on or escape to fight another day. You can have a torso and cockpit that are perfectly fine, an arm that has taken some damage, a leg thats basically disabled and may give at any moment, and a jump jet system that you dont know if its safe to use. Every single game, Mechwarrior, Mechton Zero, Embryo Machine, Princess Wing, that shitty 6 page game I found online as a teenager, all of them. Hell, even nechronica, a game about being a zombie doll in the post apocalypse has damage locations and system damage, which automatically makes it a better mech game than Cancer.You see, Cancer is basically dnd4e with a mech reskin and the hard bits (IE anything that needs a modicum of thought or brainpower) filed off. Theres no component damage, your mech just has a HP pool. Theres no system damage, unless you have a weapon or effect that causes it. Actually, you could replace your mechs with elven mages, dwarf paladins, human archers, and halfling rogues, and the game would play exactly the same. Because its just a lazy, unimaginative, reskin of a fantasy superhero game. Mind, that also explains why its so popular with dnd drones.Anyway, back to the setting because OH YES THERE IS MORE
>>98309611>>98309572>>98309512>>98309452>>98309377>shindoL poster being autistic about lancer because it doesn't have enough explicit sex content that he's fried his brain with
>>98293035Which has less ugly freaks in wigs pretending to be women
>>98309885Fewer.
>>98309954Well, thats about it for me tonight. I could go on and really delve into the setting, rules, and dickbutt lore, but is late, im tired, and I have work tomorrow. Besides, just about everything is covered in that barely coherent rant up there^ and anything else would just be layering words onto what ive covered. If you want a mech game, avoid cancer. Play anything else, theres plenty of good mech games. I personally recommend:>Mechwarrior 2E>Embryo Machine (the RPG not the boardgame)>Princess Wing (reskin to be mecha or just roll with it and play mechamusume)>Mekton Zeta>Nechronica (reskin so the characters are mechs, could play as sentient mechs or make up rules for out of cockpit stuff, either way its a better mech game)>Adeptus Evangelion>The inevitable GURPS mecha expansion. Its out there, dont tell me its notIf you actually want a mecha game, try those, or come to the Mecha Monday thread, if we havnt been infested by cancerfags again. Seriously, they are like a pest, they keep trying to colonise and take over the MM thread when they are not trying to create stealth generals or seething and planning their next assault on /tg/.
>>98309377>>98309452>>98309512>>98309572>>98309611>/pol/yp seething about gays and blacks existing in so many posts that quoting all of them is considered "spam"Must be a day that ends in "Y"!
>>98309996I presume that Lancer's success and popularity is exceedingly galling to them, that they feel the need to emerge, barking like rabid dogs, every time it is mentioned. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯I reckon if it were a system as truly below their notice as they say, they would, y'know... be busy playing the plethora of games they consider superior, instead of keeping one eye glued to the board to disrupt these threads whenever they emerge.
>>98309627But Lancer is full of explicit fetish content, it's just that Tom Bloom's fetishes involve fat, ugly mystery meatbeasts and gay tranny communism (thrice redundant I know)
>>98310085It is the mark of the loser to attack the man and not his arguement. Refute or concede.
>>98293035lancer, fully automated gay communism is the setting's "good guys"
>>98310133same with star trek, common scifi trope desu
>>98310129Christ, you really are from their discord. Nigger, let me tell you the magic spell to make someone lose all power over you when they post some stupid bullshit. You just fucking ignore them. You don't need a petition, you don't need some political campaign, and you don't need to get assmad. You can just fucking ignore the gooner retard and talk about your gay commie game if that's what you want, and if people aren't receptive to that you can just go somewhere that is.
>>98310014>success and popularity So successful it's been abandoned by its creators who ditched it to go suckle at the crusty, diseased taint of WotC. Imagine your game bombing so hard that you go "yeah, turning my back on every single ideal I pretended to uphold just so I can get raped with a below market rate salary and benefits by Hasbro is TOTES THE GOAT, MY BROS"And the best part is you guys are so raped yourselves you'll defend this.
>>98310155>5e wins again
>>98310205>>98310220Now kiss.
>>98310167Damn, imagine losing to 5e. Lancerfags are doing the equivalent watching their waifu get her guts rearranged by a whole room of Fat Ugly Bastards. Then she comes back to them, gut swollen with smegma and piss, mouth covered in unwashed asshairs, and tells the lil Lancerlet that she still loves you baby. Just not as much as she loves that WotC CAWK
>>98293035Read up on it, it seems like globohomo slop
>>98303828Lmao wtfWhy do rpgs atttact so many mentally ill wierdos
>>98309995>If you actually want a mecha game, try those, or come to the Mecha Monday thread, if we havnt been infested by cancerfags again. Seriously, they are like a pest, they keep trying to colonise and take over the MM thread when they are not trying to create stealth generals or seething and planning their next assault on /tg/.>stealth generals/tg/ allows generals anyway--they needn't be stealth, they can be open. So why does it bother you that people who like Lancer talk about it? You're not obsessed with badwrongfun, are you?
>>98293035Reminder its your moral duty to pirate this gay ass system because the creators are loathsome communist faggots.>Yes, captalism is extremely bad, but not our capitalism! Please buy our gaymSuck my dick faggots
>>98310899Why pirate it when you can just not play it at all?
>>98310911I pirate it then delete it from my hard drive, then do it all over again so they continue to lose money.
>>98303828this nigga serious?
>>98310899The true way to make the creators seethe is to not only pirate their game, but then play it in a way they don't intend - IE by including politically incorrect shit and making union the unironic big bad authoritarian commie cope they always were, all while actually enjoying playing the game however you want to. (Modify the shit out of it or whatever)
Yesterday, a friend of mine (who's never been quite into TTRPG) dm'd me saying he was invited to a Lancer game, and asked me for my opinion of it.I of course, swiftly informed him that the game was ass. After one further look at it, he immediately went "yeeeaaaaah, this doesn't look like my thing" and I was thus spared having to explain to a relative normie all the myriad ways in which Lancer sucks.Another innocent has been spared from being subjected to this shit game. I'm doing my part!>>98310952No, shut up. Don't play it at all. It's literally just a 5/10 skirmish game with nothing particularly memorable about it or interesting. There's no reason to even refluff the system when you can just play a better, more flavorful mech game begging for your time.
>mods delete two of queeftopia anons postsWhy? Checked the archive and there's nothing wrong with them.
>>98309580It's worse than that, it's unironic simping for the Silicon Valley technocracy where the main governing body of the setting is controlled by three corporations plus a kind-of-trade union who decides who gets unlimited free stuff and who gets the boot in a gauche form of liberalism that pretty much died the moment 2025 hit and the tech bros pushing it revealed their true hand.
>>98311605Lancer but the Union is powered by Palantir and ruled by the fusion of Elon Musk, Sam Altman and Peter Thiel
>>98309611This is the one thing that keeps me from playing Lancer: you don't pilot a machine, you're a fantasy hero in a robot costume.
>>98311968Hasn't that been a part of mecha since pretty much the beginning?
I'm so tired of how hateful you lot are
>>98312046Then go back to your tranny discord, faggot.
>>98309352No no no, it's very much sci-fi. A mech that is actually a time-traveler that can be equipped with a concept of a gun that doesn't shoot anything but still damages targets without ever having existed is very much science and technology. Nothing magical about it.Really all it feels like is they wanted to go full Reddit Rule of Cool and forgot that they weren't Destiny and their take on exotic weapons doesn't work with the whole rest of the setting. HORUS mechs only exist as a punchline to a joke where the entire humor of it is "imagine a mech but all it does is lock you inside the cockpit and explode lolololol isn't that unhinged??"
>>98310564>So why does it bother you that people who like Lancer talk about it? You're not obsessed with badwrongfun, are you?Weird the most discussion about the actual game got deleted. >>98309995>>98309954>>98309917>>98309769>>98309662>>98309452>>98309377
>>98311983Oldschool super robot shit, the robot itself is like a character and there's both a distinction and a unity between pilot and robot.I feel Lancer just doesn't really capture the feeling of piloting, robots, or piloting a robot. Which to be fair is a tough design goal, but some games have pulled it off.
>>98311983Yes, but it's not what I want in a mecha game.
>>98311983Lancer pretends to be "Real Robot" dirty mercenary fighting in a shithole in the middle of nowhere, but still has more magic and unexplained nonsense than the average Super Robot vs. kaiju of the week show. That ends up extending to the rules as well.
>>98312113It's okay, I'll screencap the archive later and post them as images here. Trannyjanny will not win.
>>98311983What >>98311968 means is that the gameplay is dnd, but reskined with mechas. You have long and short rests, class features with /day uses, you "parts" are really class features, etc.For example, the Monarch mech has an ability that allows him to do the Itano Circus (a shitty boring version tho), spamming a lot of missiles. You'd think this is something that uses X amount of your missile ammo, that can use with other weapons, and you can build to have more or less uses, etc. But it isn't you have 1 use per mission IIRC and that's it. The parts you get with the LOISENSES are class features (you can't share your "action surge" feature with the wizard for example, and you can't share that cool rifle with the other players).Apply this example to everything and you'll see how it's dnd with a skin on top of it.
>>98311983More like a knight and steed, except the steed is a metal dormant god. Which arguably makes some series closer to cosmic horror. Getter Robo has one character suffer a mental breakdown when he realizes the titular Getter machine is not only alive, but that it’s been influencing his thoughts to become more consumed with battlelust every time he gets in the pilot’s seat, never mind how most of the villains in the series are other species fighting for survival out of fear of because what a potential permanent union between humanity and their Getter machine creations would mean for existence itself.
>>98312046Ywnbaw lancerhomo
I'm curious, Lancer does sound like a shit setting, but I've also played Cain which is pretty interesting, although a bit light on full details. Am I just getting all my Lancer knowledge from shitposts, or did TB just get better at creating a setting between those two?
>>98313913iirc Tom Bloom didn’t write Lancer, just did art for it
>>98312266They replace "magic" with sci-fi technobabble about quantum uncertainty reacharound particles that makes Star Trek look downright grounded and realistic.
Having played several campaigns of Lancer over the past couple years (pic related), the best part of Lancer is planning your mech build - not actually playing it. My group recently dropped the system (and now we're running SWADE in the Lancer universe, lol).Planning builds is very fun - I've spent whole nights in VOIP with the boys cooking up silly combos and setups, digging through 3rd-party LCPs for interesting frames/systems/weapons, etc. But once your group gets _good_ at Lancer, things start to fall apart. The sitreps get more complicated, people start arguing about whether shooting through soft cover from a smoke grenade provides cover if the target isn't actually _in_ the soft cover, cheeky bullshit like running out of movement when you're 2 hexes off the ground so you fall but don't take damage because you only take damage when you fall 3 or more, etc. It's not uncommon for a full round of combat to take an hour. A whole hour for one fucking round. Maybe we're just retarded, but we don't have this problem in other systems.After encountering all the NPC templates you have to start getting creative with the systems you put on them to keep fights fresh, and it's really easy to accidentally make an encounter un-fun. I remember I used a Spite from NPCs Rebaked on a player whose build relied on clearing heat, and he basically sat there for 4 hours twiddling his thumbs until the other players realized they had to destroy the Spite so he could play the game again.Overall I would not recommend Lancer. I had a lot of fun with it, and there's a lot of cool stuff you can do, but the actual game kinda fucking sucks. Thinking of trying Armour Astir next time.
Seems like troons love it
>>98314859I once ran a one-shot for a couple people who never touched the game and one guy who had played in multiple full campaigns. Why the veteran player didn't offer to run for us, I have no fucking idea. The game was a mess though. The new guys weren't invested in the buildtism and didn't fucking care what options were available to them. The veteran guy made some hacking monstrosity at LL0 and spent his turn rattling off a dozen different fucking things. Everyone else is doing basic shit on their turns.>I move>I shootAnd they were bored out of their fucking minds. Veteran guy is trying to do fancy shit against all the enemy squad which, likewise, could only really do basic shit, because it's LL0.I can see how getting some ridiculous power build going could be really fun. There's tons of roguelite vidya all about capturing that feeling of syngergizing a bunch of shit together to make something overpowered. In tabletop form, where I'd have to run a team through multiple lengthy battles to start unlocking upgrades and new mechs and all their little accessories and do that for months just so Spergy McWomboCombo can spend an hour pressing all of the paper buttons on his sheet.
>>98315465This is what I get for getting distracted mid-post. What I meant to say is that I can't see the appeal of playing this game long-term just to get to all that paper button pushing. It feels stupid.
>>98315471Yea most builds don't come together until LL3, and after about LL6 things start to fall apart again. My experience has been that the sitrep matters more than anything else. At low license levels you have to make up for the lack of player choice from frame/system/talents by giving them sitrep-specific stuff to do.One sitrep my players enjoyed was Demolition sitrep from Enhanced Combat (3rd party content), where you need to destroy several pieces of terrain. I gave the players a System that they could spend a full action to instantly destroy a piece of terrain, and the OPFOR was a bunch of slow but dangerous NPCs. So half the team was focused on distracting the NPCs to prevent them from going after the guys with the bombs, who were racing the clock to destroy the terrain pieces.Another that went well was Payload from Maximum Threat (3rd party). The players had to direct a vehicle across the map while preventing the NPCs from destroying it. There were various pieces of terrain that forced them to choose a route, and Barricade NPCs printing new obstacles that either forced them to change direction or focus fire.Talents add a whole nother layer of bullshit, like Crack Shot combo'd with the Siege Stabilizer + Core Siphon turning a player's turn into "...and then as a protocol... and then as a quick action... and then I overcharge... and I call my shot..." flowchart.I was spending hours of prep in Foundry configuring modules and stuff to automatically apply status effects and visual markers to track things like suppressing fire, writing pre-combat guides to myself in the margins of the map to remember the precise order NPC abilities need to fire in to actually work... not worth the time investment. We usually do a post-session debrief so the DM can calibrate, and after a session that took me 20 hours to prep, the players said "yea it was maybe a 5/10".I dunno - maybe my group was just playing wrong somehow, but the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
>>98315585>I dunno - maybe my group was just playing wrong somehow, but the juice isn't worth the squeeze.If the game was like a Deep Rock Galactic vidya and you and your boys could drop into random missions and do special events and all that leveling just gave you more special toys to customize your pilot and mechs to play with, I could see the underlying structure of Lancer being fucking awesome. As a tabletop game, it already needs to be automated so intensely that it's barely a TTRPG at all.
>>98311650>butThat's explicitly what the Union already is, only they're all brown and trans and too.
>>98310564>/tg/ allows generals anyway--they needn't be stealth, they can be open. Yet you guys rarely make open generals and instead do gay little threads like this or try to colonize mecha monday. Probably because...>So why does it bother you that people who like Lancer talk about it?So here's the funny bit, YOU guys hate actually talking about Lancer. You had your very own general that was left well enough alone right here:https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/98261833/And it only got 34 posts because the few of you lancershills who DO actually play the game hate talking about it. You just want to "correct the narrative" on it and push all sorts of faggy idpol onto others.So the question is no longer why do WE hate lancer, but rather why don't YOU fags like Lancer, and why do you feel the need to evangelize this shit to clearly uninterested parties?
>>98315650It's ultimately a bido gam you play on your phone bretty much. You want them to keep posting random builds off the 'cord for days to keep a dead general going again?
>>98315625If Lancer Tactics (the upcoming videogame adaptation) goes on to support multiplayer, I think it might be the definitive way to play the combat. I dunno how exactly you'd DM it - I guess you'd have to create all your combats ahead of time as scenarios, and then let the AI run the actual fight? Or you just ignore the paper-thin roleplaying elements and treat it as a "grab a scenario off the Steam Workshop and drop in" thing.Reminds me of how (as previously discussed in the thread) Lancer's combat is mechanically similar to 4e's, and 4e was designed to be played with Wizard's VTT that never actually came out. It's just too finicky to actually be fun when played without a shitload of automation.
>>98315663My point is they're crying victim and claiming that their general would flourish if the mean nasty /pol/ trolls (because everyone who dislikes lancer is clearly part of a secret /pol/ world order designed to...keep a mediocre fake mecha TRPG down) would just let them, yet when given that opportunity they're less interested in an honest thread than even a casual hater of lancer.tl;dr: he's a disingenuous faggot on every level.
how do I do a ll0 controller, core book only?
>>98315896Core Book LL0 doesn't give you any ways to get additional Invade options iircTalents: Hacker 1, Walking Armory 1, Heavy Gunner 1* Quick Action to Lock On, then Quick Action to consume it and Invade with Fragment Signal to trigger SNOW_CRASH; they become impaired and slowed, and they're either taking 4 heat or you get to move them 3 spaces* If someone else sets you up with a Lock On, you can Quick Action to Covering Fire and then Invade with Fragment Signal; this almost certainly forces the GM to take the 4 heat* Walking Armory gives you Ammo Case, but you can't use Thumper to trigger Covering Fire because they have to move >1 space; probably more useful to spend a charge on Mag to give your weapon Arcing to fire over coverWeapons: Heavy Machine Gun, Hunter-Killer Nexus, Light Nexus (x2)The Covering Fire requires a Heavy weapon which kind of forces you into using the Heavy Machine Gun, which only has a range of 8 (reducing the range of Covering Fire from 10 to 8). Also, the Heavy Machine Gun can be lame at low license levels since it's Inaccurate. (The average damage is still pretty good, but it's frustrating when your attacks miss.) Since you're fighting at around range 10 anyway, the Nexuses (nexii?) are good since. They're Smart, so you roll against E-Defense instead of Evasion, but since you're trying to hack people anyway you're probably leaving enemy Witches and shit to your team to deal with.Stormbringer doesn't work well at LL0 because it requires a Launcher, and the Core Book GMS launchers both have Loading, which fucks up your action economy.You could maybe swap Walking Armory 1 or Heavy Gunner 1 for Leader 1, if you want more of a "battlefield control" vibe than "NPC control".This build relies on you Stressing the NPCs, causing them to become Exposed (take double-damage). So you don't pair well with builds that set up a single huge shot that's already gonna insta-gib smaller NPCs.Core only + LL0 is pretty rough
>>98314859I highly recommend Armor Astir. It doesn't have the build autism of Lancer, but it is a well built system that says what it wants to do and then does it while providing multiple examples. It defaults to a specific theming, but also gives advice on how to work around it without breaking the game. Conflict Turns with the Authority are great, too. Having my players have a two-mission sortie of 'hot-drop and clear an enemy ICBM silo' and 'escape the horde response alive' followed by having the players then play all parties in a negotiation between the Adversary representatives and neutral nation-states, and having the meeting be interrupted by news of the outcome of the players mission, was amazingly fun.
>>98316115A big barrier for my group is no native Foundry system. Years of VTT have made us too weak to roll dice, and too stupid to do math...It's definitely top of the list for "mech game" for us though, when we eventually come back to the genre
>>98312046*ahem*You are a niggertrannyLOL!
>>98314883Mecha is a tranny-core genre.
>>98317585>Mecha is an (autistic male)-core genre....yes, obviously. Are you alright, anon?
>>98317670Why would you post what I said again? Why would you say exactly what I said the first time?
>>98293035Probably, haven't played it. That's an exceptionally low bar to clear; it's like saying "yeah this other restaurant was better than McDonalds".
>>98312693>macross-missiles.gifSo, speaking of Macross, what systems would be good for simulating the VF style mecha combat, ie. mix of jet dogfighting, gerwalk, uh, helicoptering(?) and destroid shootbanging and melee, all in one package?
is there any reason to take ordinance/inaccurate/loading weapons? They seem like a great way to waste a turn
>>98297463>lol I dunno make up whatever you want and then flip a coin if you're dumb enough to play out anything that isn't a mech fightI don't see how this is an issue. If I'm playing a mech game I want it to be about the mechs.
>>98297863This literally made me mad reading it, well done.
>>98320621don't play dumb anon, you know this is an rpg. Mechs are for main combat, and you can't be doing main combat all the time unless you just drop the pretense of being an rpg and start advertising yourself as a shitty wargame wearing the skinsuit of an rpg.I'd argue on a deeper level, decent out of combat mechanics are a great way to sell the scale and power of the mechs via contrast. But honestly I could forgive relatively freeform out-of-mech stuff if the actual mech combat was more flavorful and interesting and didn't just feel like reskinned fantasy-fight-men.
Lancer's alright because of how simple it is. 5e players like it because it's refreshing and the combat and builds are more interesting than 5e, but I wouldn't use it for a serious game that I expect would take more than a few sessions. It's a skirmish game that meekly points at pbta instead for its narrative rules. The /pol/ surrounding the game from both the sides for and against the game is exhausting and means that while it has staying power in the zeitgeist, it'll rarely be discussed in good faith.
>>98321322Yes as much as I loathe Lancer's writing (and I don't just mean the politics, the writing itself drives me insane. That purple prose beauracratic space speak it uses that makes everything take 3 times as much text to say is agonizing) objectively speaking the game is just a 5/10. Not an offensively kuso skirmish game, but not a great one either. It's biggest sin is it's lack of flavor, I'd forgive a lot more if it just made you feel like you were piloting an actual robot or had "hook" or "gimmick" that was actually clever or interesting besides endless build-tism.
>>98297863This is fucking immaculate. Post it to some feminist subreddit and see how many updoots it gets before they cotton on.
>>98321412If you don't read the non-system parts of the book and instead use your imagination it's easily 7.5/10
>>98318510Mekton Zeta (Plus)
>>98293035Depends on what you want to run.Despite /tg/ echo chamber stuff, both DnD and Lancer are perfectly good systems for fantasy and mecha respectively.Most criticism just comes from them being comparatively popular (so normie-tier not epic basedboy sigma chad-tier), or people thinking it's pushing a gay/commie/tranny/freakshit agenda because of some lore bit or art styles or twitter post made by a dev that got a little too based one time and hating it.
>>98321470Nah I'm talking about the combat. It's a 5/10 if I ever read on.Not a particularly great skirmish game, not a particularly bad one. It could use some refinement, there's a little too much clutter and crap to it that slows down gameplay if you're not locked in (my experience was identical to this guy >>98314859 and this guy >>98315465 where rounds just took forever)...though maybe buildtismfags like it that way. Greatest sin is again, it just doesn't feel particularly like mecha, but rather a by-the-numbers I-go-you-go grid based battle system. If I'm playing a game about piloting a robot I want some clever, unique mechanic that simulates the feeling of piloting one. Whether it be something like Embryo Machines "plotting" action economics or Battletech's part damage system and directional-armor, or Revulture's enemy ai and positioning mechanics, or whatever. If you give me that I'll forgive some imbalances but I find it hard to enjoy a mecha game if there's nothing core to the system that couldn't be renamed to "elvish mana". Especially when it's just a so-so one as far as these types of games go.>>98321490It's just boring.
>>98321511If a game system is boring, 8 times out of 10 you're not using it properly.1 time out of 10, it's just not to your taste.The other 1 time, is if it's PbtA.
>>98321511I had a long conversation about objectivity with another anon. Maybe that was you, maybe not. Anyway, you'd have more credibility if you didn't use the words "objectively speaking" in your criticism.
>>98321585>If a game system is boring, 8 times out of 10 you're not using it properly.I feel like if I had to list a top 10 "worst /tg/ statements" this would definitely be up there."n-no, there's no such thing as a bad system, it's all up to you and your players to make it fun! If you're not enjoying FATAL it's your fault!">>98321621That wasn't me.
>>98321621>>98321621>objectively speaking>I feel, to me, so-so, I find, I want, simulates the feeling, loathe, agonizing, flavor, sin, etc.Yeah, it's entertaining but it's on par with someone saying "I literally died" for dramatic effect.
>>98293035Lancer is only a few steps above a boardgame in how it plays, and the actual roleplaying part of the rules is near non-existent.
>>98293035Lancer lacks non combat rules and pilot combat rules. A glorified combat sim with absolutely nothing going for it that is also shit to run on anything but foundry just sucks.
>>98321704DESU, when I said "objectively speaking", what I was trying to get at it is I'm actually trying to separate my own personal agonizing experience of the combat and rate it more "fairly" and charitably based on its mechanics on paper and a more ideal assumption of it. Because my actual experience of the combat was fucking miserable and I'd be more inclined to rate it lower.So yeah, 5/10 is actually my "charitable, being fair, being nice" rating. That being said the writing is ontologically evil and you won't convince me otherwise. I could half believe demonic spirits possessed Abby and co when coming up with this setting to make them write the lamest thing possible in the universe.
>>98321736Nice, that reads as much more honest. Sorry you had such a bad time with it, my group rather enjoyed it for a while.I don't really care for the writing either, though, it feels too much like a marketing trick to embed the game into the culture war and detracts from the system.
>>98321470Not at all. It's a 5/10 AT BEST with only the mechanics. It's the writing that drags the score even lower than that 5/10 high water mark
>>98321636>there's no such thing as a bad system, it's all up to you and your players to make it fun! If you're not enjoying FATAL it's your fault!NTA but technically speaking this is true and one of the actual no-memes differences between ttrpg and video games (also board games). Rule 0 exists, you can houserule anything, and the main draw is the social interaction between players and GM (or else you'd be playing those other games).Playing devil's advocate here though
>>98321621>tone policingObjectively speaking, you're a fag
>>98321763I'd say it's a 4/10 if you try to read the books and lore and would be willing to go down to 6.5 or 7/10 for the system if you run it purely off of mechanics. The reason for that is its approachability and ease of use, which makes it a good introduction for new players. I would not recommend anyone run it for a long campaign since it doesn't have staying power. That said, I've noticed a trend in our local IRL gaming community that the people who get into TTRPGs through approachable systems seem less inclined to venture outside of those than people who started with more crunchy systems.
>>98321767It's not tone policing, you retard. Words have meanings. If you use a word as if the tone with which you said it had more meaning than its denotation, communication breaks down.
>>98321765Ah yes, the classic Skyrim cope.If you're forced to extensively houserule yourself into a better game then maybe the foundation you're houseruling on just sucks shit and shouldn't be used, like building a castle in the swamp. There's a massive difference between making some minor tweaks to a generally good system so you and your friends can get the most out of it (i.e. tweaking how certain feats or weapons interact with Unarmed to make a brawler/grappler build more sustainable) and having to rebuild everything from the ground up because the gameplay is dry, the roleplaying is nonexistent, and the lore is outright vile. The amount of work I'd have to put in to make Lancer palatable is considerably less than what I'd have to do to make Nechronica or Princess Wing a mecha game, so why would I waste my time on the former?
>>98321784>I'd say it's a 4/10 if you try to read the books and lore and would be willing to go down to 6.5 or 7/10 for the system if you run it purely off of mechanicsAnd I'd say you're completely wrong. Especially since the lore has so little to do with actually playing the game due to the lack of role-playing and the fact that the entire game is supposed to take place on undescribed shithole planets the DM is expected to invent wholesale because the union core is never ever under any threat of direct attack since it lacks any real threats to its reign to begin with. Hell, just the fact that Tom Bloom and his kyute kommie krew expect you to slog through pages upon pages of commieslop that's not even relevant to your average session is enough to knock another 3 or 4 points off of Lancer, landing it firmly in the negatives.
>>98321785Nta, but fag does have a meaning.
>>98321803You seem to be talking about the lore I didn't read, so I'll assume you fell into that trap and can't look past it.
>>98321824You seem to have trouble reading in general, so it's no small wonder you like a game like Lancer that's best played on a VTT that does all the thinking for you.
>>98321843Are you encouraging me to read the lore after calling it shit, then?
>>98321765Game systems are generally judged “out of the box”, so any reminder that a game can be altered to your liking ti make up for its flaws is seen as a mark of shame, not a merit. It’s like telling someone an over cooked burger tastes better if you drown it in ketchup. It doesn’t change that it was over cooked, and also introduces the question of why it wasn’t served with ketchup if it tastes better that way. “You can just change it/not include it” works as a comeback for optional mechanics, not for the game system as a whole.
>>98321765if you actually believe this, why are you posting in a discussion about rules? you don't believe there is anything to discuss.
>>98321856"You're not allowed to enjoy the game because it's bad. Let my explain why it's bad by talking about about /pol/" is such a tired argument and it's where all of these threads eventually end up. Thankfully it's not in mecha monday anymore.
>>98321856Holy shit you're retarded beyond belief, either because you genuinely can't follow . Let's recap for your goldfish brain:>it's mechanically a 5/10 >>NO! you just read the lore! This game is EASILY and 8/10>no, the lore brings it down FURTHER from a 5/10, 5/10 is the most generous I can give the mechanics in a vacuum for reasons that have been already stated>>SO YOU'RE TRYING TO GET ME TO READ THE LORE?!?!?I genuinely don't get what your problem is understanding this.>>98321879And then here comes the motte and bailey to try and drag it into idpol yet again to distract from how ass the actual game is.
>>98322024Actually it went more like this:>it's 5>it's 7.5>no it's 5>i'll drop it a bit, but it's more than 5>it's 5 also /pol/ if you read the book>i don't care about /pol/ or the book, but you clearly do>shitflinging vaguely themed around not reading (presumably) the book (else just a pointless insult)>wondering what your point is (assuming it's not just to throw a pointless insult)>whatever that last post isYou brought up pol first my guy
>>98321859This is also true for lore complaints. It’s common to say that whining about lore is the lowest hanging fruit for TTRPG complaints, but the lore given is the lore you have to either accept or revise. There are hundreds of pages that you paid for with lore that you might have to just toss out entirely. Complaining about lore is legitimate.
I really hate sensationalist youtubers, im running both games and its like comparing apples to a fucking hadron collider, they fill different niches, completely different styles, how the fuck do you compare them.the only thing that lancer has over d&d is that get to make schizophrenic eldritch AI waifus to my heart content
>>98321859>>98322122If it's in the book, it's part of the game and can be criticized as such. This goes for whether it's the rules, whether it's the lore, or whether it's the art. The fact that we get nogame fuckers going "uhh just ignore it, it doesn't affect you" depresses me, because if I have to ignore it, THAT MEANS IT AFFECTS ME. These kinds of small moments are the real result of the nogame plague.
>>98322233Assuming that you're the schizo above who's talking about the book when the context is specifically not the book, you're creating your own hell and then complaining about it.
>>98322273No, I'm just befuddled at the idea that anyone, let alone someone who's read a book, can unironically think that the contents of a book aren't allowed to be criticized as the contents of said book.
>>98322285Ah, I see. Apologies for the insult, then. There's a group on tg that acknowledges that the book is poorly written, but like using the mechanics of the system for homebrew stuff. There's another part that insists that homebrewing the system is somehow worse than homebrewing something else, and usually allude to the book's quality or politics for reasons as to why. It's a clear miscommunication and it's a pretty circular argument.
>>98293050It's weird, but Reddit is also huge so you don't have uniform opinions. On the indie side it's kind of an issue that every ttrpg subreddit has rules against self promotion, to stop people from spamming their 3d printed shit, that make them useless if you're a creator. So most people who went there mainly to promote or develop games were pushed out, which leaves it full of people who only know about new games from other spaces where no one can compete against big corporations.
>>98293035Better Dnd 4e than Dnd 4e.
>>98322102>You brought up pol firstI never once did. Multiple people have called you a tool for different reasons and I think you're just getting confused.
>>98322364>and usually allude to the book's quality or politics for reasons as to why....what? No one has said that, you're conflating two completely different arguments and then getting frustrated at your own strawman. Argument 1 is>if you think the mechanics suck then just homebrew themVs>why would I go through the effort when I think the foundational mechanics are just not that good?Argument 2 is>if you think the lore is bad just toss it outVs>the lore is part of the complete package and still deserves criticism Or alternatively >if I dislike the lore AND the mechanics, why is the onus on me to fix Tom's bad game for him?
>>98321490>Despite /tg/ echo chamber stuff, both DnD and Lancer are perfectly good systems for fantasy and mecha respectively.They are not. Dnd is passable fir aying fantasy superheros, cancer utterly fails to capture even a slight facsimile of Mech combat. If you reskinned the mechs as fantasy heroes you would not notice the difference. It doesn't even have human scale rules, component damage, or r&r and salvaging.
>>98322964You literally did here >>98321803 when no one else in the reply chain had mentioned it. You could have not replied. Instead, you replied and referenced pol and lore in a conversation which specifically was based in the premise that we are excluding pol and lore.
>>98293035Robots and mechs are for cowards; hand-to-hand combat is the path for the brave.
>>98322997Argument 2 breeds the miscommunication I am referring to. The for acknowledges that the book is bad and disregards it when considering the system. The against argument criticises the book, proving that they cannot separate it from the system, something the other person has already done, leading to the circular argument.
>>98293616his wife is also fromold money tho
>>98324331Whateva knigga *steps on you*
>>98324331>xhe says, hiding behind an armor and xir horse
>>98324406>proving that they cannot separate it from the systemI'm saying both sides of the book are bad and provide nothing of worth for me. The lore and art are both godawful but if you throw them out you're still left with a bad system that cannot be salvaged with homebrew.Plus if your response to "the system is shit" is "but you can fix it with extensive third party modifications!" then you're still dodging the argument of the base game being shit.
>>98324239How is that /pol/ when they're literally avowed commies and the lore is commieslop? It's directly addressing that this shit lore brings the score down from its lofty, generous 5/10.
>>98320651>and you can't be doing main combat all the time unless you just drop the pretense of being an rpg and start advertising yourself as a shitty wargame wearing the skinsuit of an rpg.Except we do have roleplay. We just don't roll during such times as it's roleplay. It's like rolling for social mechanics in RPG's, utterly useless and a waste of words.
>>98324618Do you keep your metal weapon and helmet with the rest of your period supplies?
>>98324745I refuse to believe retardation like this is genuine.
>>98297463>make up whatever you want and then flip a coinThose are D&D's noncombat mechanics bro. The GM sets a random DC and then you succeed or fail based on whether he feels like it. In 3e, yes, there were actual DCs for things, but there aren't any more.
>>98293824>The best thing they did was take a group of 5e kiddies through old 3.5e modules and show us the carnage.Sadly the carnage was because WotC translated the module bad, rather than because 3.5e's adventure was actually like that. In 3.5e, Calcryx, the White Dragon Wyrmling which wiped the party, dealt 1d6 damage (save halves) with its breath weapon. In 5e, it instead dealt 5d8 (save halves).In an adventure for first level characters. 5e characters are a little more durable than 3e characters, but not over 6x more durable.>>98295389Sunless Citadel:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL-dzNk6IXQhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDbT_9Z3m1M
>>98306633It's astounding that you guys can come into this board, pollute every thread with whining that liberals exist and naturally dominate this hobby (as rightoids are p-zombies that lack the capacity for creativity), and then whine that mods don't also suck your dicks all day as you make off-topic posts about your hatred of homosexuals.
>>98303828This is the just the mirrorverse verse of Varg Vikernes saying that he hopes MYFAROG will inspire you to be more like him. Just a straigh up admission that they sort of hope you are happy being told you are playing ineffectual and poorly written grass roots propaganda. At least their honestly is commendable.
