Now that some time has passed what exactly went wrong and what can we learn from it?
>>98297384We can say we learned that you're gonna keep shitbaiting over Trench Crusade for the next 5-10 years, because you're too much of a nogames, knuckle-dragging, neanderthal brow-having spastic troglodyte to find someone of actual value to talk about ever
>>98297384Making fun of the fandom you got will not cause a larger, wealthier fandom with your exact political beliefs to magically appear.
"We" learned that "we" can't manifest a game back out of existence just because they don't want to suck Arch's cock as much as "we" like to.
>>98297384Do NOT trust ex-GW employees even if they talk a slick game
>>98297384That if you want a box hurled in to the sun you gotta do it yourself.
>>98297501>>98297918Always prepare yourself for shitheels like this to popup who will disingenuously defend blatant corpo misbehaviour by >Gaslighting>Downplaying>Misdirection>SlanderWhen companies go woke they automatically gain an army of ideological attack dogs who will brigade for them online.
>>98297939Sorry that my contrary opinion makes you feel upset, anon. That must be difficult.
>>98297384What do you mean time has passed? The Kickstarter is still on going since they haven't delivered all the stuff they've promised yet.
>>98297918What game? Hell, people have yet to get all their shit and the shit they have gotten is breaking on them.Just cause someone you don't like didn't let it doesn't mean you fucking SiMP for it. Especially when he was fucking right. They did have a chance to be a rival to 40k. Now I think they limp off and be that example of what NOT to do.
>>98297958Explaining to a disingenuous faggot that they're being a disingenuous faggot is a waste of time because they already know, but it's not exactly a flood of complaints on there these days.
>>98297983Pirinen is already jumping ship to new shit. He's well aware that TC is not gonna make it.
>>98297983Games workshop is a 7 billion pound company and trench crusade was a kickstarter with a $60,000 target that had no in-house miniature production capability. Please be a little more realistic, I don't think the strong black dei representation is the (main) reason your local GW hasn't been replaced with a TC.
>>98297988Yeh because eventually people get the memo that continually contacting FF support will manage dick all and just stop bothering and take their losses.
>>98297988>>98298000Pick related is their promise of showcasing 4 additional kickstarter stl's for carcass front all the way back in march...Where is the update?
>>98297989Oh I know, I think everyone knows that isn't a NPC.I mean what sucks was that it was a good concept. They had everything they needed to be a good rival. Then they put their foot in their mouth. Especially since it seem like the main artist made this to make his "edgy grimdark heavy metal album cover" art. I mean it works and you could craft a good enough story where you could be vague enough where you can let people fill in the blanks without denying or confirming anything. Yet they kept putting their foot in their mouth to please the woke. Even then they got attack over some things if I remembered.
>>98297995How many companies started off small? Did I say by 2 years they would rival GW. But it would be like Palworld and Pokemon. Do you think Palworld even being on PC, XBOX, and PS makes more than Pokemon? No, but would you say they're one of the biggest rivals to Pokemon at the moment. Yes, that's my point.
>>98298015>Waah!!! My 4 stls aren't ready and there's a single digit number of people complaining on KS who didn't get their book/terrain... le game is OVER!!!!!!!!Stop nitpicking! Who cares! The box set is coming out in a few weeks so if you care wait and see what the reception to that is like.
>>98298026>Trench crusade could have been the palworld of the miniature gaming industry....A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, anon
>>98298030>Literal coomsumer brain with no morals or ethics except maximum coomsoomption
>>98298034Here comes the Buddha himself who argues with people in a miniature wargaming thread despite not concerning himself with worldly possessions such as miniature wargames.Go print something, faggot.
>>98298030Is your take really that people who paid for product and not receiving it should just shut the fuck up because new product is coming? >I didnt get my stuff>BUT NEW STUFF IS COMING SO STFU>But I want the stuff I already paid for>STFU JUST BUY NEW STUFFWtf is even this logic.If I asked you how you would feel if you didn't have breakfast this morning you probably would be confused
>>98298040This company is immoral, I don't like em very much>You Buddha Larper!Literal TrenchbrainerNo wonder you guys put up with lies and deceit your benchmark for morality is practically non existant
>>98298043It's "Wtf even is this logic", ESL-kun. Please don't call me coloured if you're not even going to spell check your own post. The kickstarter comments are cited as an example of the evil of the company and when you check it it's a handful of guys who put their address in wrong. Only a bleeding heart faggot or someone arguing in bad faith would consider that particularly damning. I got my shit I ordered and so did everyone else I know who did.
>>98298049>Handful of guysScroll down>Thousands of comments people asking where their shit is.Ok Baka-san time to stop gaslighting
Trenchtrannies dont understand Christiam morality. They have their own warped form of morality that dictates they have to defend Trench Crusade at all costs. Its pathetic. This is a company that literally scammed people, betrayed 3d printers, and charged absurd prices. This is a company that deserves every bit of criticism because OBJECTIVELY they have fucked up multiple times, but Trench Trannies still shill for this scam.
>>98298020They were never going to be a "rival" to Warhammer because it's a tiny skirmish game and GW is an order of magnitude better than even its largest rival. I don't understand where the delusion this was a competing game vs. Warhammer even came from.
>>98298060People who don't have their shit tend to say things like "WHERE'S MY BOOK (4 months ago)". Then when the book arrives, they usually don't say anything.>Actually the explanation for that is that they all got fed up and decided to cut their losses.That's a logical conclusion for someone with your existing biases, but it doesn't make it true. Got any evidence? I think there'd be more than 3 people in the last month if it was such a widespread issue.
>>98298065>pretend not to understand hypotheticals>only uses them to support his own argumentsVery Israel of you. Just like Brandshield.
>>98298075Let's say, hypothetically, you could conduct yourself in an argument without calling someone a mossad agent, maybe we'd be getting somewhere?
>>98297384They were definitely not prepared for the extent of the KS and have struggled to fulfil it, but I don't think the game has "gone wrong" from a manufacturer's/IP's point of view. They've started getting hard plastics in stores and Archon, their mini maker, is one of the largest second tier mini companies. So I think as a game it's probably still reasonably well placed, even if 'as an indie art project/as a KS project' it has had questionable success or failure.But a game in stores people are playing is probably a better place to be than an indie art project where everone just prints free STLs! Sad to say but I would rather be reliant on one of those for my income if I was trying to run a company.
>>98298080Yes but that would imply good faith on the side of people who support TC, which has repeatedly proven to be non existant because you will downplay any and all criticism of TC no matter how valid.repeat after me>Trench Crusade devs have repeatedly lied and deceivedPerhaps then we can get somewhere
>>98298093That's the second time you've misspelled "non-existent" >repeat after me "i agree with you!"How about you repeat after me instead?> The Krusty Krab Pizza, is the pizza, ab-so-lu-tiv-al-y! [beatboxing] P-P-P-P-Pizza, Do-do-chun-chun-chi-chi pizza Do do ba ba ba da Do do do do pizza do do do do do do pizza Do do do do do do [deep country voice] Krusty-Kra-a-aa-yaaa yeah-yeah-ya-yab Pizza! Is the pizza, yeah, for you and... [falsetto, while hitting the high note] Me-hee-hee-hee-yee!
>>98298107I rest my case, your honor
>>98297983Kinda hilarious that they self imploded just to prove Arch wrong>Arch:TC could rival warhammer>TC Devs: NO WE FUCKING WON'TTruly proves how owning the chuds is their priority in life. Something about rent free and all that.
>>98297914This is probably the core nugget of wisdom to be gleaned
>>98297914is you be a sayin trans black lesbean wymxin aren't the wargame playerbase?
>>98298154Lol I completely forgot they put big ugly sheboon in platemail on one of their huge banners at a convention. What the fuck were they hoping to accomplish with that? There are thankfully zero niggers at tabletop cons to begin with, let alone the females of the species. Did they think it would appeal to to white guilt?>play our game with a fat obnoxious black woman on the cover and black people will tell you “you’re one of the good ones” ???
>>98298147They were literally never going to rival Warhammer.
>>98298166Yes they've succesfully appealed to the type of people who visit r/sigmarxism who are now captive audience of TC
>>98298178Whatever makes you feel better about voluntarily kneecapping yourselves
>>98298194I don’t play TC, didn’t back the KS, don’t have any TC models or booked. It’s batshit to think a skirmish weird war WW1 game would ever rival Games Workshop. If you seriously suggest this you do not understand how the industry breaks down. GW is not just “a bit bigger” than its nearest rival.
>>98297384>what exactly went wrong and what can we learn from it?Don’t trust any indie project to stay true to its founding values of being easily monetarily accessible and to keep to other foundational promises like not being dickish like GW. Especially after it gets loads of money flowing in after hopeful newcomers take notice.Tc could have been much bigger than it used to be but it isn’t.I used to defend this project. Sunk cost fallacy makes one act unwise and all. Now I’m looking into selling my Kickstarter book.
>>98297988>>98298000>>98298015These are the same 3 screencaps that have been posted in the last month.The anon is kept spamming about it, saying they never got their order, was asked to post their receipt, and went quiet.Trench Crusade is a perfect example of how internet outrage culture, forgetting 'not your personal army', and lack of gatekeeping allows for a lot of dumb to come out.The way this game is spoken of reminds me far too much of how the idiots in /v/ act towards a new IP, suspiciously so.
>>98298256I actually took the first one myself just now because I was trying to prove a point about how the volume of people complaining isn't *that* high. Just 3 comments on the kickstarter in the last month and one of them even says they understand it was due to a shipping error. It seems like FF have been working quite hard to resolve all these issues so I'm inclined to think anyone who's still having problems is either very unlucky, a colossal retard or an intentional bad actor.
>>98298292The fact people still assume good faith about something that has been actively shitposted about for months is insane.When I made the comparison to /v/, I meant it in every regard.
>>98298256"Same screencaps that have been posted in the last month">Screenshot says comment from 8 days ago>Double check on Kickstarter page and confirm that is correctSee how easy it is to debunk you retards?Sorry shill but your compulsive lies don't work anymore. The spell has already been broken and your narrative is laughed at. Damage control through lies only makes it worse, only the truth will set you free.
>>98298319Gaslighting isn't real
>>98298292Oke lets assume shipping is getting fixed, can they finally start fixing the resin traps as well?or are you also going to repeat the lies that >theyve already been fixed a year ago?After that lets take a closer look at the community license shall we? And after that maybe see how the DMCA abuse with brandshield is going?
>>98298331I was going to try and debate you but I imagined what you look like and I felt disgusted.
>>98297384You shouldn't make promised you won't keep.You shouldn't write retarded lore, unless it's cool.
>>98298365 (me)I should clarify I'm not calling you fat or ugly or anything I just think arguing with a mid 20s stranger somewhere across the world about a game that they don't even like is fucking sad
>>98298043It's more that a few warehouse errors made by people who are 5 steps removed from anything actually having to do with the game's quality doesn't say much about the game's quality.I hope those people get the stuff they paid for, but when it comes to whether the model designs are good and the rules are fun, I think I'll make that determination by looking at the models and playing the game.The rules are very good by the way. I've started backporting them to Mordheim so I can treat it as an updated ruleset with my broheim group
>>98297384They wanted to make a world where everyone is awful and evil, and created a world where Muslims are the only good guys and the only ones loved by God.>>98297501first post worst post
>>98298461I think it's pretty clear the only reason why the muslims don't get cool shit like clone jesus is that if you wrote about a clone muhammed then some supreme imam would genuinely put out a hit on you and then a somali doctor or lawyer would come to your house and behead you. It's not out of a place of muslim superiority it's just pragmatism if you want to put them in your game. That's just the consequence of letting muslims in.
I think this might be one of the stupidest threads I've ever seenHow thick must you be to think that the only options are basically GW or TC, something which basically sprang out of 28magStick to doomscrolling and watching youtube in future
>>98298489Regardless, they compromised on their creative vision to appeal to a group that have zero interest in their game. And it looks like they're going to keep doing that with the Aztecs or whatever.
>>98297914SPBP.
>>98298451How do you distinguish henchmen in a TC-Mordheim mix-up? I guess Swordsmen can have +1 melee and Marksmen +1 ranged? But giving Reiklanders +2 ranged would be crazy.
>>98298461>>98298489>samefag using bitch basic troll posts, inadvertently proving >>98297501 correctAlright, we can /thread now.
>>98297384Under promise and over deliver instead of overpromising and under delivering.Do not promise to release everything as STLs forever, it's not financially viable.The rules are okay, flawed but kinda fun. Having "ignores armour" and "ignores ignores armour" in your base rules is a red flag.
>>98298554Retard, me and that guy aren't even making the same argument
>>98298544I'm not nearly done mapping out the warbands, but yeah, something like that. You have base mercenary recruits, who can be upgraded to marksman or swordsman, similar to how trench crusade has optional unit upgrades. I'm not gonna include the different variants like Reikland and Nordland though.My biggest problem is actually that I have no idea what to do with the youngblood. It's such an awkward hero type.
>>98298562>offends muslims, intentionally or otherwise, can get you killed.Till this day I have no idea why the west simply Glass the middle east or least put Muslim on pikes at the entrance of cities.
>>98298562Men used to respond to threats from vermin by crushing the vermin under their heel.
>>98297918>3 posts and arch mentionedAt this point I wonder if a trench crusade bingo chart has been made to cover these patterns. I remember older posts that mention a string of talking points Trench defenders usually used. Maybe it is just one guy responsible for the stereotypes.>>98297939You might be on to something here. Some kind of /awg/tism and warhammer zealotry has made an unholy synthesis.I’m glad the trench crusade general still exists to contain them from /awg/ as /awg/ has enough problems.
>>98298166It was their attempt to go>yeah, that's right imaginary customers who badly want diversity and female space marines! We've got that! GW SUCKS because they won't commit to making BLACK FEMALE SPACE MARINES unlike our game, because we're so transgressive and punk!>(Please do not look down at our CEO's obnoxiously large platform boots, he is very sensitive about being a manlet and is trying to compensate in all the wrong ways)
>>98298166>Lol I completely forgot they put big ugly sheboon in platemail on one of their huge banners at a convention.I need images of this.>>98298722>CEO's obnoxiously large platform boots,Also this.
>>98297384>what can we learn from it?That the arthause indi darling to sell out pipeline works and has become very efficient. If you have enough pockets to get a marketing team this is great news for you. If you just like indi games and kit bashign and the creative side it is bad news but the fad will pass with the recession so keep making games and playing, the tourists will move on and so will the corporate side. >>98298682>bingo chartRequires the interested game culture to be able to laugh at themselves, understand that different ideas about the game can exist simultaneously and not be overly concerned with appearances. That hasn't been part of online nerd culture for a while now sadly.
>>98297384Gullibility and sunk cost are the two things that come to mind when it comes to trench crusade.
>>98298808>Requires the interested game culture to be able to laugh at themselves, understand that different ideas about the game can exist simultaneously and not be overly concerned with appearances. That hasn't been part of online nerd culture for a while now sadly.Spite can be a good motivator and that has been made before.Typically used to point out arguments and then the user makes a long breakdown of counterpoints. Saw one in a fsm bait thread I curiously gandered. But then again given how small the trench following is even by non-warhammer game standards anything put here might just be making fun of one ardent defender rather than a collective.I swear I may have seen the first post typing style with the overly long string of insults to sound smart.
>>98297384Don't support a game too much. Even 'indie' things will go downhill once the creators ego and wallet get too big, as they'll get hooked and want more.
>>98297384You have to admire a scam well-executed.
>>98297914100%I'm sorry but if I made a game and it got an audience of commie faggots I wouldn't go out of my way to alienate them no matter how much I hate them.
>>98299054But commies are not people. Hardly a valid example.Maybe mmm football fans?
I think for me, the whole episode just shows how fucking dim even a lot of miniature wargamers are. And it's meant to be a cerebral hobby.Like I'm not saying you have to know the Perry Twins apart by first glance (Michael has less arms) and be in a discord with 28Mag and go to Under the Dice Fest or whatever.But you have to have some understanding of the different scenes and the industry and the people in it. None of this is just pulled from the aether.Instead you've got thickos who probably rotate between GW release cycle marketing and outrage channels on Youtube and here with no clue spouting as if Trench Crusade is some "40k killer" or whatever, when it's probably selling about as much plastic as Guards of Traitor's Toll
>>98298644Because the one thing the west has a shortage of is lowskill, uneducated laborers.
>>98299066Lets pretend that is true for a second.Why import them from places that in the best case scenario are just a Death Cult. When the rest of Asia and South America have people that actually still look at the west with starry eyes.
>>98299066No we don’t, we have greedy megacorporations that aren’t willing to pay in accordance with rising inflation. The average Westerner recognizes even subconsciously that low-skill grunt work can’t pay the bills so they bring in people who think living 20 to a room is -Why am I even complaining. Either start the race war or bite a barrel.
>>98297914Absolutely. Seething immensely that some of your natural playerbase (100% of whom have some beef with games workshop) didn't like GW's political posturing and targeting specifically is just deranged behavior. All they had to do was just be non-political like any sane company and everything would have been fine. Instead they are just another political actor aligned with the same boring crap, preaching and screeching.
>>98299064First intelligent post itt. It's important to draw a line between What's Really Happening and the Drama people. Both the UTD/28mag scene and Archtube are largely comprised of controversy addicts who enjoy being part of the spectacle. Everything here will be overblown. It's also simultaneously true that the Kickstarter got way BIGGER than anyone expected, when everyone though it would stay on the scale of like Sun Rot or Necropolis28 something. (Which is why their first discord was literally a subforum of 28mag discord, alongside one-page solo project games)But on the other hand, they did get way bigger than expected. So there's some justification to say that the "messier" aspects w.r.t. product fulfillment, issues in print quality, licensing even, it all springs from a project their actually did generate more interest than it was expected to. Of course not to rival GW or anything. I just think Mike and Tuomas were legitimately surprised at the amount of attention they got, both financially and community wise, and that the games' interest really did outscale the creators expectations. And maybe we could say that mistakes were made because of that, in part. I hold Tuomas in pretty high esteem as a designer so I want to believe the best about him.
>Don't fuck up your models for a miniatures game >Don't backstab your once in a lifetime incoming consumer base over petty politics>Art alone can't hold a game up, you need good writing in lore and especially rules (no one talks about the rules themselves, so I assume its just that bland)Note: No one in the wargaming market will learn these lessons then act surprised when their game flops.
>>98297384The usual fucking over KS backers shenanigans.Amateurish QC on a lot of things, like the mirrored logo.Rugpulling the STL people, both in terms of new STLs going forward and a community license that is a shit deal alongside copyright striking them like GW.The art is gorgeous, but the team are amateurish hypocrites, and there's a wealth of skirmish slop to play such that it doesn't really stand out. Say what you will about Infinity, but its floating order pool makes the game still compelling as a gameplay experience in a much more crowded market of skirmish slop than when it came out.
>>98298682Because they're going to hold up that one time their Discord got raided by twitter culture war retards as a shield from criticism until the end of time.
Bot b8 thread full of bot replies
>>98298644Because we have to pretend like we're good people and that includes pretending like muslims are people.
>>98299459>Don't backstab your once in a lifetime incoming consumer base over petty politicsWhat do you mean by that?No shit a 28mag project, that just happened to blow up, didn't want to attract a pile of Deus Vult subnormal retards on their first school trip away from GW.
>>98299268>Absolutely. Seething immensely that some of your natural playerbase (100% of whom have some beef with games workshop) didn't like GW's political posturing and targeting specifically is just deranged behavior. All they had to do was just be non-political like any sane company and everything would have been fine.>>98299459>Don't backstab your once in a lifetime incoming consumer base over petty politicsLoretuber rightoids don't buy shit, and turn off people that will actually pay you money. The online right culture warriors are cheapasses. FF was entirely right to kick them to the curb immediately through what amounts to their front organization in the Discord. You don't want them even associated with your project.
>>98299563>bot repliesIs this the latest cope against criticism against trench? Nobody has demanded models posted or said “traditional games” with a question mark yet so the AI needs better calibrating.
>>98299459>flopsI know you're still seething that you got your ass banned, but you have to be objective here. It was a massive financial success. Sadly, your impotent seething is what they're going to use to deflect any legit criticism (and there is quite a bit to criticize).
>>98299579Were back to defending the gw pricing when the existence of stls was meant to make trench crusade more financially approachable for newcomers compared to warhammer 40k.
>>98299600I think it was scummy that they rugpulled the stl guys. Deus vult retards were nevertheless not going to buy them. Plus being known as the "deus vult retard game" also massively limits future sales.>gw pricingUnless you're some boomer using 30yo spincast molds like GZG, Khurasan (who can't legally sell in the EU anymore because their process and materials are that outdated), or Alternative Armies, that is simply what it costs to bring new minis to market.Don't like it? Want to kitbash on a shoestring budget? Games with actual gameplay flavor like Gaslands are there for you.
>>98299632I gotta paint up my three wise skeleton metals from alt armies. >cost to bring new modelsTell that to victrix limited and wga and perry. Those are just the mini examples. Bandai is putting out plastic sprues all the time with prices putting the whole miniature market to shame. >gas landsI do have an interest in it. I plan to jokingly use electric cars only as a little gag. Funnily enough I found a cybertruck hot wheels car. Even more hilariously it’s angular and flat surfaces make it perfect for conversions because flat surfaces.It took a while to accept that tc is backpedaling. But I got there.
>>98299652>It took a while to accept that tc is backpedaling. But I got there.You are making up a guy who made arguments I did not make and posting "concession accepted :)))))" but I have always been ambivalent to or unimpressed by TC. It's funny that the rightoid retards are still seething after they gtab, but unfortunately, that incident makes it hard to criticize TC - since they will assume that any criticism comes from the deus vult retards who are still seething about a year later. Banning those niggers immediately was one of the smartest things TC ever did, alongside hiring the art department they did. Everything else they do is amateurish, dishonest, abrasive, and defended with a "small indie company pls understand :)))))" that people still eat up.
>>98299685I just reread your posts and realized I misinterpreted your tone.My bad. In my defense I was cleaning up my hobby space so I’m a little tired.Glad you remained neutral on tc unlike me where fomo got me.Trench crusade struck at the best or arguably worst moment when femstodes of warhammer 40k were announced. The incident(s) from it basically created a shield of criticism where any criticism no matter how correct is waved off as from someone of wrong political side. Even if the problems are genuine.
>>98299579Your picture is about right wing grifters, but you're implying that all normal players (conservative, non-activist, etc.) don't buy things, only leftoid max-retard activists buy things. That's just not true. The right wing hobby base buys shit like crazy, there's whole cottage industries, entire offshoots that specialize in marketing stuff to these job-having family-having men. These cucks decided their number one principle was definitely not taking any of these normal-people dollars. Anyway, they deserve it, and all the weird gaslighty defenders deserve it too. When your choices are "appeal to leftydroids" and "appeal to everyone", the choice is obvious and anyone pretending there's more nuance than that is just an activist.
>>98299537The art isn't even that good. Baby's first edgeslop.
>>98297914That's a lesson we should have already years ago with Warmachine.>>98298562>a singular beheading>8 people convincedDid they pull Murder in Orient Express on him each taking a chop, or what?
>>98299105They don't want good immigrants who are smart and will integrate and onboard western values. They want the serfs poor, divided, and afraid. The stupidity of the Pakistani is a desirable thing. It keeps him from successfully plotting against his Superiors. The criminality of the Somalian or Iraqi is a desirable thing. It keeps the native citizens too focused on their own security to push back against how little they have. Did you think the anarcho-tyranny was a coincidence? The best thing about it all is too is when they successfully automate away as many of our jobs as possible, they'll cut off the flow of migrants, rescind agreements letting them get in, and truncheon anyone who fights it to death, and what's left of the native working class will cheer because they think "patriots" won, rather than the usefulness of the vermin ended.The cycle will then eventually repeat for as long as it produces a metastable circumstance.
>>98298461>Muslims are the only ones beloved by godThat's called verisimilitude, infidel.
>>98299915Your prophet worshiped a demon and you are going to roast in Hell.
>>98299915The divide between Abrahamic branches of faith is basically edition wars.Judaism would be AD&D, Christianity 3e, and Islam 5e.Protestantism is Pathfinder, obviously.
>>98299105Why would they want immigrants that improve the situation? The point of weaponizing the concept of "dude moves to another place" is to keep the retards' anger directed at foreigners instead of the cocksucker raping their coffers dry.
>>98297384I'm astonished that anyone saw this game as anything other than a spiteful jab at both GW and religion. It's fucking dripping with "GW pissed us off" and reddit mod level atheism energy.Products made purely as spite clones of other products rarely work, usually only if the original being spited actually is in some kind of dire straights (which 40k isn't). The nonsensical level of grimderp that the setting reaches doesn't help either, since it again projects massive "See? We're grimdark like 40k too!" vibes, and is honestly just offputting for it like it's trying too hard.
>>98299936Yeah, everybody's super happy with the politicians in their countries right now. Not like they're constantly dying mysteriously, or just straight-up getting shot, while competing political parties use the state bureaucracy to try to make each other illegal while waging many (other) forms of economic warfare.I genuinely think that, if you could organize people, all it would take is a big enough trigger event to get a full blown 6th of january where the mob doesn't just mill around aimlessly but straight-up murders all the politicians within their grasp and goes full-revolutionary zeal. And I'm not just talking about the US. The only thing that's missing to get that outcome is an organized dissatisfied elite class that's willing to point the mob in the right direction, and the powers-that-be are doing everything they can to create this dissatisfied elite. This is not lasting another 20 years man, and it's probably gonna end in a bloodbath.
>>98299064Archon is reasonably big for the non-GW industry but people don't realise that means it is like 1/100th the size of GW.
>>98298613Probably some kind of movement ability. +0/+0 and not tough or anything but good at scrambling up walls. Maybe give them cool niche gear options so they can be weird problem solvers. I would integrate the different warband variants btw, I think you can make it work.I feel like I would differentiate champions too. Not so important in regular Mordheim but do a champion who is +2 melee +0 ranged some kind of combat ability, and then a 'veteran' who is +1/+1 and tough.
>>98298739If you look up any images of Toumas Pirinen, he's always trying his best to look tough and badass. When you see him next to literally anyone else, he's somehow always the shortest person in the pic
>>98300413And just to emphasize the point, here's a photo of this huge faggot in his boots, barely as tall as a woman with no shoes on.
>>98300419Damn, her noggin is massive. You uh- know which library she works out at?
>game about crusades fighting literally satan forces has to be all about right vs left>retard conflict in the discord started because shitters wanted to ruin the setting with pagan stuff and other forces from x civilization>retard that is in charge of the game continuously mix WW1 with WW2I already knew that the game was going to be shit when the legions of hell have german aesthetic while having at the same time as prussian faction.
>>98299064Every game that had some, no matter how small, percentage of GW's customer base migrate to it has been lauded as "warhammer/40k killer", usually by those very people who were migrating. Makes them feel more powerful about themselves, I guess. And with advent of social media even small community can appear much bigger just by being diligently vocal.This has been the same with Rackham Confrontation, AT-43, Warmachine, and so on.GW could only ever lose its position by active self-sabotage, and considering the company survived Kirby's leadership, I'd say it's pretty resilient even against that.
>>98300570>>retard that is in charge of the game continuously mix WW1 with WW2that at least makes some amount of sense, if you're making alt-history with "war to end all wars" you might as well pull from every source, not just the nearest parallel
>>98300596while that is true, i think you have to find a balance to the overall aesthetic. i remember the guy talking about jets and night vision during a podcast or interview claiming prototypes of those things existed in WW1. I just want something with Battlefield 1 feels, which was full of prototype shit and tanks that worked 100% better than in real life but the overall aesthetic was spot on.
>>98300573Kirby was a better businessman than the competition. I don't recall any controversies like how Wyrd and Privateer fucked over LGSs with shipping with GW from that era.>>98300596The details of the worldbuilding made me lose most of my interest in it. I was hoping more of Silent Hill, instead I got Salvation War meets WW1Hammer. The actual setting is eye rolling, but I also generally dislike alt-hist. I can't put my finger on what specifically irks me about the TC setting, but it has that schlocky fanfic quality I'd expect from SDN, SB, or AH.net.
>>98300413ayo that a HIV ribbon?
they should call it stench crusade cuz boy does it stink!
>>98300697Isn't pink one for breast cancer?HIV one should be rainbow colored.
Is the hate for Trench Crusade because they owned the chuds? They sound pretty based to me if 4chan is having a collective melty over them constantly.
>>98301499You're not very good at pretending to be smug.
>>98301530I don’t even see him as worth dignifying with an answer. TC is clearly a failure considering they chased away potential customers, fleeced their own fellows of money, and failed to materialize a product.If they were remotely intelligent, they would have delayed the faggotry for later and focused more on putting out a product as soon as possible. Once in a stable position, they could pump all the poz they want into the product to own the “chud.”That’s the problem with these “leftists.” They’d rather they’d unironically rather the complete failure of their ideology over productive cooperation with those they call “chud” because of a mindless idiotic rage possessed them.
>>98300413Tuomas-sama... not like this... why would someone so based do something so gay
>>98301499>owned the chuds by floppingSeems to be a trend across all media lately
>>98299563>everyone who disagrees with me is a bot
>>98300665>Kirby was a better businessman than the competition.While that might be true (because admittedly, it's a low bar to pass), from what I've gathered success under his reign was despite him, not thanks to him. Board meetings for important decisions were allegedly scheduled specifically when he's out on vacation so he can't fuck it up. And while that info is second had gossip, publicly available financial reports indicate the company started doing much better under Rountree. Which can be either one hell of a coincidence of evidence of Kirby's weakness in leadership.
>>98302223
>>98299935Catholicism is 3.0, Orthodox is 3.5, Protestantism is pathfinder, Mormonism is something advertised as OGL but actually shares very few similarities, JW is a weird third party supplement.I like this analogy since every person has their own house rules.
>>98299935Rabbinic Judaism would be 2e, Temple Judaism 1e. And I guess 4e would probably be... Uh, whatever the hell Hong Xiuquan was peddling>>98302339Swap Catholocism and Orthodoxy, since Orthodoxy's whole thing is not really changing all that much from the old ways. It also works better for PF since Protestantsim grew out of Catholocism as a result of a thing a good amount of people didn't particularly care for, much like how PF grew out of 3.5 as a result of a thing a good amount of people didn't particularly care for.
>>98300413>>98300419That's hilarious. What a chode. I wouldn't make fun of someone's height normally, but I will hate on anyone making their insecurity so manifestly obvious. Plus the fact that he's trying to look tough with his gay little shirt and school shooter getup.
>>98297989>Pirinen is already jumping ship to new shit.Source?
>>98302783He's very obviously trying to compensate, but Toumas is at the center of all of the problems with TC. He was the one who made a ton of promises and talked a big game about how they weren't going to be like GW and how badass and hardcore the game is, and then broke all of those promises while strutting around talking about how his badass team defeated the chuds by repeatedly shooting themselves in the dick.
So, how do you make a model wargame that doesn't:>Eat shit>Burst into flames on contact with the outside world>Die penniless in a gutter
>>98298166I found a solution for that.If nothing else, TC encouraged me to learn digital kitbashing, and for that I am truly grateful.
>>98303065Make it 45 years ago and have enough capital to keep it going the whole time
>>98300413LMAO has this guy never heard of lifts? that is mortifying.
>>98297384TC was never really going to rival warhammer, but they 100% kneecapped themselves by overreacting to the chuds, and really by giving them any attention whatsoever. Locally, one store carries TC product, no one plays it except for a handful of IDpol faggots who hate each other, and I don't even think they've really played, just talked in circles about lore and list building. For most normal people in the hobby, they know TC as a Weird War 1 grimdark thing, but also that people online were acting deranged, would rather just play Warhammer/Battletech/whatever. I knew it was cooked when they let those losers at Mag28 manage the discord.
>>98297384How many times are you going to make this thread?
I don't know shit about it and only popping in to see if i roughly got the idea right: >game and lore sold as Christianity vs actual de facto demons, good vs evil and humanity uniting to fight back against the tide>oops just kidding, the demons are misunderstood and the good guys actually are doing bad things and are just as evil as the demons, also we're not gonna expand on several mechanics that needed more refinement>hey where did our money and audience go? Something like that?
>>98303102Basically. Battletech is still alive in spite of CGL because it was probably the biggest non-historical wargame in North America in the 80s and 90s.The really hard part is getting it to the point where tie in fluff gets people into the tabletop side.
>>98303305Something like that, plus a good healthy dose of "By the way, have we told you how wonderful the Mohammedians are yet? Ottomans did nothing wrong and God is actively giving them the sloppy toppy to make sure they don't have to do anything immoral or dubious to get by"So everyone is an immoral bastard and there are no good guys.Except the ackbars. They're wholesomechungus goodbois.For, you know, reasons.
>>98303305>oops just kidding, the demons are misunderstoodno the forces of hell are played completely straight
>>98303305Oh and this guy is right >>98303320 the demons are 100% shitbags who are looking to violate all of existence.But fighting back against them makes you just as bad apparently because you have to do some dubiously moral shit, despite the fact you're trying to save people while they want reality itself to be a 25/8 gangrape.
>>98303305Wrong on all counts. You're getting a version of the fluff from jilted /pol/tards that got banned from the Discord.Their actual problems are a combination of the usual Kickstarter problems of not getting people their shit, that shit having QC issues, content striking 3rd party STLs for months before they had a "Trench Crusade-compatible license", poorly designed STLs for resin printing, and treating anyone pointing out the above -even people on their side like Discourse- as though they were the Deus Vult /pol/tards.
>>98301499>we acted retarded and shot ourselves in the foot>you laughed at us>U HAVING A MELTY HAW HAW WE GOTCHA GUD BY GOING BROKE IN FRONT OF U>>98303327>They shot themselves in the foot five ways, the sixth shot missed because telling a quarter of your fanbase they aren't wanted is good ok its fine
>>98303305It's less that the demons are misunderstood so much as the good guys are just as bad because le atheist grimderp. Except the Musselmen, of course. They don't want to be splashed with acid or beheaded in real life, so they won't do anything to offend them.
>>98303765This isn't even remotely correct. Just read the free lore. Just read the free rules and play the game, for free.>>98303657The ban wave happened over two years ago before the kickstarter even finished. TC has issues but the strange attempt to unify all the issues into one mass when they're separate, unrelated problems that happened over time, most of which have been resolved, is unhinged and reeks of tourist "include me in the screen cap!!!" behavior.Unironically just read the free lore and rules and judge for yourself. It is free.
>>98297384The chucklefucks that the 40k community didn't want were also roundly rejected by the TC community, and they've been butthurt about it ever since they were shown the door from yet another wargaming community.
>>98303657>U HAVING A MELTY HAW HAW WE GOTCHA GUD BY GOING BROKE IN FRONT OF UThey didn't go broke. They were wildly successful, and went on to be even more successful after booting the rw 40k secondaries.>shot ourselves in the footNot at all. These people are notorious cheapasses. And the more you get into indie games, the more lib the scene gets. Getting the reputation as the "DEUS VULT rightoid game" significantly lowers the ceiling of their future sales, since the people that actually put their money where their mouths are are much less likely to buy product. And rightoids, as a rule, are cheap Charlies that do not financially support independent creators.You just don't understand the nerdshit market. Smacking down the banhammer on the unofficial-but-actually-official Discord as swiftly as they did was one of their better decisions, and contributed to their crowdfunding efforts being as successful as they ultimately became.
>>98302250Kirby was absolutely a bad executive. However, even Kirby-era GW was a well oiled machine that avoided the disastrous logistics fuckups that scarred and lowered the ceiling of success that can be achieved of most of its competition. Burn hobby stores like they did, and LGSs will not stock your product and will instead stock GW.
>>98300413>those fucking platform bootsWhy would you wear those? You're showing everyone how insecure you are about your height
>>98304055Manlets are inherently less intelligent because they breathe in so much more methane than average height people, due to being closer to everyone's asses
>>98303827it's funnier than that, they just went back to 40k, and now every time 40k gets woker (aka, literally any time it releases any book model or game) they have to repeat the "WE'RE LEAVING ANY MOMENT NOW" bit with even less gusto than before
>all the positive TC posts show up in blocksI think the lessons are fairly obvious>don't alienate your audience>don't rugpull your promises>DELIVER YOUR PRODUCTI'm so sick of this scammer mentality pervading everything. I'm only slightly less annoyed at CURRENT YEAR politics infiltrating every single aspect of hobbies and life.
>>98298365>>98298392>erm yeah but you're ugly.good god man, this is embarrassing. I'm not even a chud but every single one of your posts is avoiding what he's talking about and just quoting spongebob or some shit.
>>983030651. Have talented people with a creative vision and stick to that vision.2. Have at least one skilled and experienced logistics guy who makes sure that product is made and shipped.3. Do not have woke tranny community managers start pissing contests with your potential customers for having wrongthink opinions and don't jam DEI girlboss and negro representation into your game - your customers are 95% white and male and everyone is sick to death of pretending otherwise.Trench Crusade nailed the first one better than anyone else in the industry since the early days of 40k, then they shit all over themselves with the 3rd point, but still could have pulled things out if they hadn't then dropped the ball on the second point too while having very little good will left with the audience.
>>98305349>Have talented people with a creative vision and stick to that vision.Trench Crusade fucked up from rule number one, you mean?
>>98303808>This isn't even remotely correct.You dumb lying fucking retard faggot, God personally intervened to save the Muslim hordes from Hell by erecting a giant magical wall. So now the Muslims have had an unending golden age for 800 years of unparalleled prosperity and are legitimately the only hope the planet has of surviving the apocalypse. That's the lore.
>>98305513No, Mike Franchina is an incredible artist, and Tuomas is a good game designer. It's everywhere else they fucked up.
>>98305529>No, Mike Franchina is an incredible artist, and Tuomas is a good game designer. It's everywhere else they fucked up.They didn't stick to the vision, yes, that's what I was pointing out.
>>98305607Ah fair, you could make that argument, although I think it's the least of their issues.
Honestly, I'm still kind of baffled it's a skirmish game considering it's meant to ape ww1
>>98298194Yet another indie game with "Oooooh look we ar e sooooo Grimdark, more grimdark than warhammer!" attitude, could not in any universe rival warhammer, at the very least because they are trying to copy it. Warmachine was able to actually be noticible in the warhammer shadow, explicitly because it was different (Tournament waacfagy rules while WH was still in its more fun orianted phase, and Warcraft-steampunk aesthetic)
>>98305661Everyone wants 28mm(32mm) large miniatures, because they look good on photography and instagram posts, and if you want a proper mass combat game you would have to go with smaller miniatures
>>98305526Arent Iron Sultanate based on Persia? I never really read them as muslim
>>98305689Or you could just make it a high barrier to entry shitshow like 40k
>>98305661The plan was to start out at skirmish level, and if it sells expand to full armies with big warmachines later. Which is honestly a good plan.
>>98305700Warhammer models are already too big for the battles and army sizes, especially after they shrunk down the table, you would need a room sized table, and thousands of dollars in terrain in order to make a mass battle actually look good with the scale of the models
>>98297384that once a company realizes they have fans who will support them no matter what they will immediately go mask off and engage in the most shameless money grabbing behavior they think they can get away with and that this is even true of indie darlings. this trench crusade debacle taught me that pirating absolutely everything i can is always the correct answer.
>>98305661It started as an art project for kitbashing models after blanchitus grimecore took off. It was for making art pieces that you could also play a game with, before it turned into a sales thing. That and most humans don't have an interest or capacity to abstract enough for larger scale conflict in smaller sized miniatures. Harder to create interesting rules for ww1 at that scale as well.
>>98297384We can learn that Mutant Chronicles Warzone is still the coolest miniatures game setting. War without end, amen.
>>98305526>The iron wall Hell yeah dude, let's forgot the Muslim nations outside the wall that have been conquered by hell. Let's forgot the kidnapping kids and pumping them with alchemy to make them brainwashed super soldiers, let's forgot every 1 in 20 households having to send their kids off to either die or go insane. Forgot the horrific experiments to produce sapient creatures as slaves. Forgot the extreme military and theocratic dictatorship. The savors of the setting is New Antioch, being literally the only thing stopping the advance of the heretics generally. The only group that can actually do operations in hell itself is the papacy with the paladins who are they only beings that can handle going into hell. No where does the lore state the Iron Sultanate is in a golden age. They have advanced tech but so does New Antioch (the papacy has a space program and literal power armor). Don't be a faggot.
>>98299574>You're Deus Vult subnormal retards>why isn't my game selling?
>>98299574a lot of those people don't know about 28mag. Not matter what, you have to be a special kind of retard if you want to make a game about religious crusaders fighting demons and not not expect the "deus vult" crowd. It is like making a WW2 adjacent game and getting mad that people want to play as Germans.
>>98297384Do basic research on the setting you want to portray before you try to portray itAlso resin sucks dick for large sculpts
>>98306618Yeah and world war 2 communities also kick out the retards that sashay into them trying to do their faggot Nazi larp.
>>98306748People like you are the reason there's less joy in the world.
>>98303213Until TC fanboys surrender and we achieve total chud victory. Not sure about the victory conditions yet but maybe when they sell the rights of the IP to arch or something.Its funny how these TC retards will petard themselves for a company that are blatant scumbags. Makes for easy target.
What I've learned of this thread is that TC guys are unbelievably based for not giving a fuck about some whiny larper cucks who claim to have made them and their fanbase.They just kicked them out, risking the product but upholding whatever the fuck they decided to have as their values?Simply, based.
>>98306748Mongoloids like you are why Godwin's law is a thing.Everyone who doesn't agree with you on anything no matter how trivial, if the discrepency exists long enough your underdeveloped brain is eventually compelled to label them a nazi. You can't even comprehend the most milktoast normie opinions so they must be nazi.>only thing Godwin failed to mention is that this accusation always comes from one side of the debateAbsolute npc schizo clown behaviour.
>>98306771>Unironically praising TC devs for upholding their values
Say what you want about Deux Vult Larpers but the biggest larper will always be Tuomas retending to be a history expert>ww1>nightvision machinegunsdude will literally get the most basic ass shit wrong spouting reddit tier pop history myths with full confidence as if its historical fact. No wonder he's the spiritual leader of the TC fandom worshipping him as their messiah, he's the prophet of unapologetic stupidity.
>>98302954En Guarde collab cynically milking the reputation of John Blanche
>If there is something wrong with your order please don't post it publically the chuds will use the screenshots against us!>we will be able to help much faster if you contact us directly I swear!!Guess they got tired of people airing their dirty laundry. Fuckheads admission of guilt couldn't be more obvious.
>>98300419I just want to breed her so much.
I wonder if Trench Crusade would have done better if they'd gone woke in a milder way (celebrating pride month) rather than telling their new, autistic fanbase to not buy their product out of some weird resentment for christians.As someone else said up the thread, if I made something and found a real fanbase with lefties, I'd lean into it, not try to fight paying customers off.
>>98306748>Muh naziEvery single time.>>98306771>muh valuesThey don’t actually have any values is the issue. That implies they have actual moral standards they uphold when it’s clear they are doing this out of spite, hate, and entitlement. It’s literally the same kind of behavior I’ve seen from Israeli Jews.
>>98306970I think any comment about "done better" has to bear in mind as far as indie games go TC has been enormously successful. Could they have done better? Sure, but I doubt the guys behind it are sweating things.
>>98306771You can see in the thread that it's just malding Arch fanboys who have been seething for what, going on 2 years now? I can't believe a legit argument in this thread is:>t-t-the beloved creator of Mordheim i-is an insecure short guy!!This shit is 100% a toxic little discord somewhere posting TC ragebait day after day after day. Now admittedly the TC ultra-defenders probably have something similar going on in their own woke troon-adjacent discord, but nobody posting any of this shit was anywhere near the actual games of TC going on at Essen and UKGE and Salute.It's just another mini wargame. They definitely fucked up some shit and I suspect that's partly because they didn't expect to make 3 million dollars, but they were never going to rival GW nor are they some particularly evil example of incompetence.
>>98307083I'd argue rugpulling the customer base is pretty evil. Same with the copyright bullshit. Other games haven't done that. Look at something like quar.
>>98307101The Quar designer didn't do that. WGA who make Quar models famously did do that in the past, and the guy changed his name and set up WGA under the new one before "coming clean" a few months back after people found out about his past.But yes, that is pretty scummy. I guess I feel an entirely STL-based game was a naive proposition that was always going to have to change tack at some point if it wanted to be an actual miniature company. If your rules are free and all you do is sell STLs that anyone else can design variants of you are not going to be able to afford the overheads of employing even one designer and sculptor. But you're right that was the dream they initially sold.
>>98307112>TC as business needed to move away from STL's to be sustainable.>6 Million in revenue before even announcing plasticsYou know whats not sustainable? Fucking everyone over with lies and deceit lmao
>>98307131The 6 million is from what, the KS? Are you gonna do one of them every year? Is that a good business model? It hasn't worked out very well for CMON.
>>98307139That's because CMON are retards who made their entire shtick>Back our KS and get ludicrous unsustainable mountains of plastic!resulting in them making less profits despite high revenue and customers eventually getting burnt out either by having to deal with the gigantic mountains of plastic or by coming along after the KS was over and finding the game they were interested in is ~80% out of print and would never be in print again.Half the wargaming industry now is kickstarters dipshit.
>>98307139I dont get the defensiveness and I don't get bringing up that arch faggot all the time. There are legitimate issues with TC. Including the political stuff, yes, but that's small potatoes compared to fucking over the customer base in a variety of ways. I honestly want to understand why people jump to its defense. The posting style is always distinctly different from most anons and it kinda makes me suspicious, just to lay the cards on the table. Not you necessarily, but scroll up itt and you'll see what I mean.
>>98307149CMON was pretty much THE most successful serial kickstarter company and it all went wrong for them off 1 bad year. Kickstarting a single run of minis or whatever is fine and you can sustain that, I know Victoria Miniatures does regular KS launches of new ranges. But if you want a going concern I'd be pretty avoidant of planning a regular or annual KS. For one you're always going to have to have something to KS. Reaper tried just KSing stuff but like, 'lots of stuff!' and they didn't get much mileage out of that after 3-4 years.>>98307150My impression is that as soon as this game is mentioned on /tg/, and pretty uniquely here on the internet, a ton of people jump to either attack or defend with what are essentially prerecorded messages.
>>98307150when chuds and trannies exist in the same space, as soon as drama occurs they will instinctually organise themselves on opposite sides of the drama and force the drama to be rehashed for all eternity because if they ever stop bringing it up then that would mean one of them has consneeded to the other. arch will still be mentioned in this general in five years time because he is a gigachud, if the game is still relevant enough to have a general by then of course.
>>98299579>Right wing types>Ayn randLol nice larp, anyway I'm guessing they made heaps of money pandering to the left wingers right? Right??? Lmao
>>98307186The other part of this is “””influencers””” and media outlets encouraging it because turning everything into kulturkrieg lets them keep earning.
>>98307150Cause one side (TC devs) got caught actively lying and deceiving but because TC has taken the progressive political side the activists will not let them down in the culture wars, simple as.High neurotic individuals on the left feel premanently existentially threatened by the mere existance of chuds so fromt heir POV its life or death. >"We've succesfully kicked the chuds out of our game!">"game??"Literally always boils down to this. Once you realise this dynamic you can't unsee it.
>>98297384>what can we learn from it?Chuds will always win in the end
>>98307083>it's just malding Arch fanboysNah it's just faggots like you constantly seething about the YouTube boogeyman lol
>>98307150>I honestly want to understand why people jump to its defenseIt's easy: The people defending TC unconditionally are either paypigs who have already overinvested in a game they'll never play, so they reflexively tell everyone that they think the game is amazing and that it's just youtuber "grifters" and chuds lying... Or they are poseur tourists who have no interest in the game, the company, the broken promises, or anything else, but since they consider TC some kind of decisive culture war victory, they rush in to act smug and snarky, while betraying that they didn't actually follow the situation at all and see the whole thing as "woke chads destroy racist chuds"
>>98307416I doubt I'll ever play Trench Crusade and I've thought the Inquisitor 28 crowd was retarded ever since they did their gay space marine stunt, but I still regard this game as overhated as demonstrated by the posts ITT making fun of Tuomas Pirinen's height (I'm 6'2" personally btw).
>>98307459He's been mocked for being a manlet for long before Trench Crusade exists, mostly because he's a total edgelord and also because he's massively insecure over being short.
>>98307459id say the game is under hated. the main dev being a manlet wearing platform shoes is but one of many reasons why they deserve to be bullied. its symptomatic
>>98307459We could talk about the grenade spam problem or the way that being in a trench is a death sentence because firing into a trench is so beneficial to the attacker... But if you entered a thread with the question "what exactly went wrong and what can we learn from it?" and expect people to strictly discuss rules and their latest battle reports and not the business practices, behaviors, attitudes, and public displays of the creators, then I don't know what to tell you.
>>98307567>being in a trench is a death sentence because firing into a trench is so beneficial to the attackerThat's pretty fucking funny
>>98306024I am now collecting these, close to a capitol and legion playable forces
>>98307131You are dent in the head retarded. KSing is subject to interest and hype cycles. It's absolutely not sustainable. It's like a payday loan or early series startup cash injection. Since it became clear that TC was going to be more than a modest success where you sell some STLs, a rulebook, and move on to a new project, it's very obvious why they moved the way they have. The printoids were going to get rugpulled the moment TC became a viable business.
>>98307567>being in a trench is a death sentence because firing into a trench is so beneficial to the attackerNo it isn't? You gain nothing doing it unless you've retardedly made trenches 3inches+ high, and the person in the trench can peek out, shoot and go back.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4t9tJSYlooSo opinions on this video?Evidence seems pretty clear
>>98307189Yes, they did. You are delusional if you think otherwise. In the two years or so since the anniversary of the Discord thing you guys are still seething about, TC has gone on to be one of the most financially successful mini kickstarters.I don't particularly care for TC as a game, but that's the reality of it. Chuds had two years to come up with their own grimdark skirmish game with blackjacks and hookers that they would totally for reals support, and there's been crickets.>>98307773He's basically right. In the long run, they're probably going to blow their own foot off like Privateer or Wyrd and have nobody to blame but themselves. However, a tantrum from an event 5-7 years ago is going to be largle irrelevant for why they eventually go under.
Don't put them in the game, easy
>>98306902lol what a bunch of shitters. Would have been a great opportunity to explain and make amends but they did this sort of shit instead. There will always be haters for TC but this sort of thing makes it harder for supporters to continue.
>>98300413I'm a short man. Never used anything like that in my life. No even back in the day when my girlfriend would use those impossible high high heels.The hell is wrong with this twat? Does he have no self respect?
Goodwill towards the game creators only goes so far. Getting high on your own supply and letting greed infect your mind only leads to ruin. They had a golden opportunity to make some serious headway and they pissed it all away.
>>98306970The entire purpose of the behavior is to be a performance, restraint would be a type of failure.
>>98307906>Does he have no self respect?Nope. He's a deeply insecure piece of shit, which is why he gets caught running his mouth and saying objectively wrong things and makes promises he has no intention of keeping, because putting on the performance of being a tough guy with strong personal values he holds to is more important than actually living up to the things he pretends to be.
>>98307906Did people talk shit about him when he was just the Mordheim guy? Or is this dunking just because people are still mad after the whole "Femstodes->guyz TC is a redpilled and based 40k killer->Get banned banned immediately" thing two years later?I don't doubt he's always been this kind of insecure metalhead-nerd crossover type, but it doesn't seem to have bothered people when he was just the Mordheim guy.
>>98308438Guess when no one sees you r platform shoes, nor hear your wrong opinions. You can get aways with just doing rules I guess.
>>98308438Nobody gave a shit until TC, no.
The only good thing about TC will be printing minis for chaos flavored Imperial Guard.
>>98307567>being in a trench is a death sentence because firing into a trench is so beneficial to the attackerShooting down should be beneficial to the shooter, balanced by anyone standing above the trenches getting fucking melted by rear-line fire, surely?I do not play TC, obviously.The Gaslands guy has a game design yotuube show with some other dickwad, and their discussion of it made it sound not much like trench warfare at all.
>>98297914The funniest part is they did this around the same time they moved over to plastic kits and stopped releasing STL files, thinking that commie consumerists would be more likely to shell out for kits and not mind that fact, when these are the exact kinds of people to become hyper obstinate about this very thing.
>>98299579>Le rightwingers won't buy shit>They're hypocrites that don't understand the free market!>Doesn't mention the fact that left-wing media is heavily subsidized by the government and has been for years, making a free market impossible.Retard.
>>98297384>What went wrongEveything>What will we learnNothing
>>98297384It's been like, what, 3 years since you guys got gatekept? It's time to let it go.
>>98303906my bet is youre just experiencing first hand being completely incompetent entitled lefty whose shit at your job so ofcourse nobody want to pay your entitled ass for overpriced crap. because you cant cope youve build this narrative that rightoids "never wanna pay what im worth" to protect your fragile ego. people happily pay what youre worth which in your case is very little
>>98309300It hasn't, but it's about time you poseur faggots faced reality and realize you got fucking scammed.
>>98306748>world war 2 communities also kick out the retardslol, lmao even
>>98306748Oh so you never played historicals.
>>98300413That pic alone has destroyed any credibility this "game" has
>>98300705Kek. Bodied those freaks
>>98297501You tell me
>>98309694Toumas being short is amusing, but the boots already destroys his credibility. The real killing blow is putting a black, female space marine knock off on giant banners surrounding their table, though. Posing in front of it like he's proud of this badass transgressive act just seals the deal; this guy is a faggot, his game is garbage, and you should not give him money.
>>98309958Based. Toumas never drew a dime
>>98307189>Lol nice larp, anyway I'm guessing they made heaps of money pandering to the left wingers right? Right??? Lmaoyeah last i checked it went pretty well
>>98300419>forcing suggy to take her shoes off so she doesn't height mog himkek
>>98310278And how much was profit vs revenue that then had to be spent on production?
>>98310341i presume not much, since the production was really low quality n most of the models, and a lot of the spending here was done on stl files which were already made
>>98310337>But us chuds already have our own game, Warhammer, we wonohhhhhhhhhhhhhoohoohoo ohhh no no no nonooonoo... wait till he sees the.......... PFFFFFFFFFFFFHAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH
Stl rugpull lmao
>>98310360Awww did you go crying to the jannies to get the comment removed? Lmao
>>98310360by this point warhammer 40k was already getting severely retard mangled by gw. female custodes was just the final nail in the coffin of no returntourist leftoids love making a huge deal out of femstodes because for them it was a cultural moment for their degenerate brains but for real fans it was hardly more significant than the primaris because since then the writing has been on the wall and weve been zoning out ever since anyway
>>98310010>drew a dimeOnly way he could do that is if the paper was as big as he is.
>>98310278yes the scam was really succesful. lets see them pull it off again
>>98311180B-but there are Warhammer youtubers now!Seriously though, Warhammer just makes me sad now. Primaris are trash and definitely the second biggest sin after the primarch return, the custodes as a whole are gay and now even more cringe due to womyn, all the animations I see are some iteration of girllboss, etc.
>>98311297>lets see them pull it off againThis is the interesting part really, can they make enough paypigs to be self perpetuating? There's at least two b-list companies working on that. >Trench Crusade >One Page Rules Not sure where to put Warmachine MK4, they're making a go of it again so might be able to cash in on the nostalgia, not sure how appealing the models and game is to new audiences. Infinity dropped off hard. Mantic and Warlord are both upping prices quite a bit, Konflickt 47's new release doesn't seem like it has much momentum and they just officially cancelled the Mythic Americas game. Wargames Atlantic is maybe the closest thing to having a fanbase that will just buy whatever gets made enough to support the rest of the company, but they don't have much of a game. It feels like people are catching onto kickstarter being high probability of a scam and Cmon is collapsing, but that might just mean there's a lot of rubes looking for something to spend on.
>>98303310That's not the best example. CGL was probably correct in chasing trannybux, as the only people buying their shitty plastic minis were tourists that show off their pride paint jobs on Reddit but don't actually play the game. Us oldfags that started in the '80's and '90's either use our old metal minis or print new ones, but what we don't do, and likely haven't done in decades, is buy Battletech stuff. We bought all our shit back when grunge was hugely popular. Catering to us is what made it a dead franchise for so many years. Btech players of my generation are in kind of a weird place, where we don't really blame CGL for doing what it did while simultaneously wishing that it'd go out of business so that another company could pick up the franchise, cater to us instead, and the game could die again. It's fucking odd.>not that the game isn't currently dead in most places>sure, there are plenty of pseuds buying their chinese plastic, but play *1* game of bt at your local store and you'll not only draw a small crowd, you'll also forever be known at the store as "that battletech guy"
>>98300413Now I understand why I had an instinctive rejection of the game.Surface level was interesting, but something bug me. Guess this level of insecurity just permeates the game.
>>98312229That's the big one noone's talking about. The biggest detriment to this game is that at both face value and in depth, the entire thing feels like it's overcompensating for not being Warhammer and overly spiteful towards Warhammer/GW and religion.
>>98312209>battletch's new target audience I had forgotten about that, not being the target audience anymore. Their business model is stuck at small scale though, most of the game only need 8 models total and everyone old already had theirs or was using proxies so I see how it happened.
>>98303313>"By the way, have we told you how wonderful the Mohammedians are yet? Ottomans did nothing wrong and God is actively giving them the sloppy toppy to make sure they don't have to do anything immoral or dubious to get by"I thought their thing was making these freaky chimera dudes who are fully aware that they're monsters.
>>98312209i duno man, the alpha strike really is making waves (at least locally) making co-op ai play was a really smart move and genuinely a lot of fun. then spinning into selling narrative campaigns is a good move.
>>98299054Yeah.It's a far better long term strategy to take their money and invest it in things they hate which are totally disengaged from your own product.Ideological puritans hate pragmatism like that.
>>98312209I still buy Battletech metals offa Ral Partha Europe sometimes, which is UK based, and still casting plenty of classics, minus of course, the old "unseen" designs.
>>98312392>When we do it is fine.>When you do it is horrible.
>>98312209We've got new and old players using a wide mix of model sources. One of the new players is exclusively using 3d prints but almost everyone else has mixed models. Metals are probably the rarest since not everyone has some, but they're still well represented.I've never actually met a grog who still uses older iterations of the rules. We won't be using the new "Core Rules" until at least the common non-mech units have full rules, but nobody in the group has expressed the sort of stubborn refusal to change you might see from internet comments. We play with full combined arms and an attached aerospace map, so no one wants to downgrade to asset cards and abstract airstrike tokens. There's still going to be some people using the new rules just to see what they're like.
>>98300570>sees black metal nazis>gets offendedyou're a fucking pussy mate lol
Nothing?Game is pretty great and it seems like the creators made a good amount of money.
DitchJihad sucks meat pole
>>98312434I'm not going to call you a liar because I'm not familiar with your scene, but I've never seen a game of Alpha Strike, nor met someone that even claims to have tried it. Aerotech is better represented around here, in that I've actually seen a game of it played at one of the local stores last year. However, let's assume for a moment that AS is doing good numbers. Who's buying it? It's not the grogs. Who was it aimed at? Again, not the grogs. Loren and Randall have been involved with BT longer than most of the people posting in this thread have been alive. Do you think they haven't figured out why sales were shit for two decades? And don't blame it on storyline stagnation and their botched attempt at fixing it via the FCCW and all of the bullshit that followed, because the grogs are still partying like it's 1990 (or 3050, if you prefer) and didn't buy any of those fucking books either. >>98312709>I've never actually met a grog who still uses older iterations of the rulesBecause some of those old rules were seriously fucked up. A lot of guys my age *still* hate Clan players over pre-BV shenanigans and pairing pulse lasers with TC's, which used to be legal. Unless you played with good friends, every game wound up with US Civil War field hospital levels of leg amputations, which wasn't a lot of fun. As for the new rules, none of the guys that I know have expressed any interest, but I'd be willing to try them just to see.
>>98309493Like I said, it's not healthy to still seethe in impotent rage after all this time. It was funny when it happened, but now it's just sad.
>>98300419He looks like the lovechild of Jeffrey Epstein and a Goth midget from the 90s."Can I have a picture with you?""Sure, but you'll have to take off your shoes first.""Is this a fetish thing?""... Would you believe me if I said yes?"If he wants Strong Women Of Color in his games, I won't judge his Magical Realm bullshit (I don't judge GW for its emphasis on Strong Manly Men pouring hot plasma over their enemies as they talk about "brotherhood" and abstain from icky girls). But I gotta' laugh at an obvious height insecurity like that. I mean, dude bases his whole wardrobe around the extra two inches his shoes give him.
This is a bad thread specifically because I dress like Tuomas and my feelings are being hurt by proxy. Having followed the early development of the game and given up later, I do think that TC is a RELATIVELY inspired ruleset, it had a couple inspired ideas though it never felt like a proper Trench War thing.(it was always just a straight skirmish, it felt Mordheim with more ranged focus, and played best on tables with verticality and buildings rather than trench networks.) The campaign rules never reached the heights you'd expect from Tuomas's earlier fare either. The first couple of weeks were a lot of fun though, people forget that Trench Crusades first and most vibrant community was the Facebook group where boomers were slapping WW1 rifles onto Kingdom Death pinup miniatures and proudly showing off their coomer demon armies. That was fun while it lasted. Discord people ruined everything when they became the voice of the game. It might have ONLY been good before official models existed, even, from the "enthusiasm barrier" which slows down onerous bandwagoners by filtering out anyone who can't be arsed to do conversions. It's indisputable that the company fucked up later fulfilling their promises w.r.t. the kickstarter, model deliveries, IP control for secondary creators, etc. Its also super super super gay that you can't discuss this without it being a left/right cultural shibboleth, because thats really just a small part of the whole shitshow.
TC seems like a fagfest
>>98318706It is.There is even a "Hermaphroditic Lord"
>>98306957Suggs, there is no need to samefag your own picture.[Spoiler]i will gladly breed you any day though[/spoiler]
>>98319410You wish she will stay here to waste her precious time with you, chuds
>>98319511You should try a new therapist anon, your current one isn't helping you become a better version of you.
>>98297384You can't make a setting where you say God and all of Christianity is real and then try to make the demons sympathetic and also try to make muslims good guys.
>>98299935>I am an atheist and so smart.Bet you're real handsome too.
>>98297384they made a setting to appeal to Crusader larps (bear in mind you don't have to be Christian or even religious to enjoy a good crusader larp) Then banned all the people that enjoy that.Thats like trying to sell a magazine full of boobs and banning men from buying it.
>>98297384>GW can pay out lore youtubers to slander competitor companies, and their viewers will buy it.>Lore youtubers also are unapologetically fucking brazen when they demand a cut of things.>The people who get worked up over culture war shit will believe anything that goes against common sensibilities, especially if it means they can say they're being persecuted by evil globohomo.>Even if they spend two years to figure out a convincing narrative, and mostly make it up themselves from willfully misinterpreting things, they'll still believe it.It's a free fucking game, made by a bunch of industry notables, and with contributions from even more industry notables. Many of whom were the reason why Warhammer was even a success.You don't even need to pay anything for it. The rules and resources are fucking free, and the company is legally unable to make you buy or use official models or books, by their own contracts. Those models are fully voluntary.It's objectively one of the most /tg/ things to happen in the wider hobby space in the decade, and it's a damning filter for /pol/fags and tourists that want to think they're actual hobbyists.Good thing actual gamers don't care, and there's still a popular scene for it.>t.picrel
>>98299579>Liberal Hollywood understands value!Oh ho ho ho.
>>98321552Just because trench crusade is free doesn’t mean it is above criticism anon.And especially not above criticism to the devs for making bad decisions when their whole marketing vibes they manufactured were to be smarter and more reasonable than gw.
>>98320558/thread
>>98320558>they made a setting to appeal to Crusader larps (bear in mind you don't have to be Christian or even religious to enjoy a good crusader larp)>Then banned all the people that enjoy that.>Thats like trying to sell a magazine full of boobs and banning men from buying it.(you)
>>98302956By this stage in the game he's paid himself a shitload of money and has both the leftist idpol crowd and a bunch of people with sunk cost bias running defense for him. So he definitely won and I'm sure hes ecstatic with the outcome.
>>98297501So...what does this have to do with Trench Crusade? Sounds like you hate /tg/ more than anything else.
>>98297501I'll be amazed if its around that long.
>>98300419Isn't she like 4 feet tall already lmao
>>98323149We can never predict whether it will last that long. I just hope the tc general never dies so they are isolated from /awg/.
