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>GAROU RULES, BITCH!!!

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Last bread is already gone? What's with fast breads lately.

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>TQ
My buddy's Brujah antitribu fought in the American War of Independence as a Hessian mercenary. He suffered a neck wound that rendered him mute before he was Embraced. In the chronicle his character was the inspiration for Washington Irving's story. He eventually sired Lita in the modern nights.

That same buddy of mine also has a Gangrel character who fought in the Barbary Wars under Stephen Decatur (pictured alongside my Malkavian who acts as his secretary).

>>98304501
How are you getting Breast Milk Vitae if not a Tzimisce?

>>98304633
>How are you getting Breast Milk Vitae if not a Tzimisce?
Just stab it and let the other suck the blood from it.

how come vamps are so horny despite the fact they cant have children and got no pulse. Fucked up how the average vampire has more sex than a werewolf

>>98304648
They have a literal primal Beast inside them
IRL explanation is WoD audience and writers are extremely horny

>>98304633
just do a light cut above the nipple and start sucking.

>>98304648
>how come vamps are so horny
vamps are ascetic monks compared to werewolves, those are the real horndogs or more appropriately hornwolves

>>98304765
And werewolves are nuns compared to bastet, who have gift dedicated specifically to breeding and causing orgies as central gimmicks.
Breedbook Bastet was typed one-handed.

>>98304801
I thought that applied to everything involving Brucato

>>98304801
>implying everything in WtA and related and MtA wasn't typed with a single hand
Kinfolk A Breed Apart was definitely typed without washing also

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>>98304801
it is what it is

>>98304916
>be me Nephandus 600 yo (futa)
>catcreature thinks I'm just some mage
>seduce it and turn it into a femboy (unwilling) and then parade it around the HR pit I've turned into my personal rape-orgy chamber
They'll never see it coming, it's a new experience alright.

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>>98304501
Well of course the more freakish ones stand out like a sore thumb but a lot of tzimisce like to express themselves by shaping others while keeping themselves relatively unchanged. Sometimes we like to study someone close to you, learn their schedules, habits, and mannerisms so we can take their form, get in real close, and reenact some of our favorite scenes from The Thing.

>How are you getting Breast Milk Vitae
If you embraced a woman who was already lactating, would it be possible for her to continue lactating after the fluids in her body convert to vitae?

>>98304941
I'd just figure only a Tzimisce could make a vampire produce milk, otherwise there's just no fluids in them but blood and vitae.

>>98304491
ZAMN!!! Bone Gnawers look like THAT??? Well, I got a “bone” she can gnaw on, if you know what I mean haha
I want to have sex with her.

>>98304981
Tzimisce also have no powers related to changing their body fluids beside two elder powers that turns their blood into acid

i really feel like the fun police here sometimes but guys vicissitude ain't bio manipulation and unless you go into elder powers (which also aren't all that) it's pretty much just flesh and bone shaping

>>98305145
I never really claimed the Vic was making the vamps produce milk, but maybe repurpose milk ducts and mammary glands for vitae pumping.

>>98305100
It was explicitly written in her entry that she was considered the most beautiful and clean of the bone gnawers.

what would be some interesting places to have tremere chantries in?

>>98305175
>>98305175
>Radio stations & towers
I like the idea of a WW1 era Tremere playing around with the modern version of the technology that saved his life way back when and how they implement his Sorcery through it.
> traditional medicine shop
> chiropractor office
> pet shop

>Museums
For those literally stuck in a period.

>Candle factory
They needed the bulk discount and at some point it was easier to just own the entire chain.
>Trade school
I don't know where I'm going with this one.

>>98305256
>>98305175
I'm partial to the idea of Tremere holding up in a Christian monastery or some oriental temple.

>>98305175
Inside a big auction house. Think Sotheby's or Christie's.
Or maybe they just have a magical portal that opens there.

>>98305275
Those are nice, just not much to talk about most of the time. What denomination tho?

>>98304916
Silly mystics, falling for the "I'm just a silly little cat creature" trick. Scientists would never.

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I have just watched Blade. It was very cheesy. I want to play vtm even more now.

>>98305175
Doomsday bunker with a ghouled doomsday preppers community

everyone thinks it's just the tremere being pragmatic but the regent is a gehenna nutjob who is certain the the final nights are upon us

>>98305338
Depends where. Monasteries are more of a Catholic/Orthodox thing but it could be very cool as a mystery to repurpose that famous silent monastery in Italy for a Tremere chantry.

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>>98305437
>italian monastery mentioned

>>98305437
I was mostly talking about what denomination would lead to an interesting chantry rather what is coherent.
I don't know why but the idea of a Jehovah's Witnesses chantry sounds like they would go for given how indoctrinated those people are, add actual mind control and magic and you get something close to the Victorian setting where servants were gear.

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>>98305345
We know what you did to the Werewolves.

>>98305362
Blade actually had VTM books on set to give the production staff an idea of the tone they were going for.
That's why the vampires in the blade movies acted like a weird mashup of camarilla and sabbat.

WoD in general used to be second only to d&d, with rock artists platently putting references to it like nickleback putting the lyrics "pentex sucks" in a song.
Oh how the mighty hath fallen...

>>98305437
>Catholic
Lasombra would axe them
>Orthodox
Tzimisce would axe them

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Hello if anyone is interested in playing a wod crosssplat that’s westmarches that my friends and I are beta testing feel free to join! It’s similar to house games but rather then playing a homebrew thing it is exclusively second edition mainline wod splats
Mages, fera, vampires mummies ect.
If ur interested join this filter server and ill invite ya we play all the time and its a good replacement for a chronicle if you are unable to play but still are interested in playing a character.
https://discord.gg/gweDybwKpY
You are also allowed to port characters over that never properly finished their chronicles! Hope to see some of y’all join we are looking for 5 people or so total so if you are willing to take the risk on a beta test thanks

>>98304916
>>98304801
The white boy wizard yearns to return to the heath as his ancestors. It takes just one (1) werecat to outreproduce an entire chantry of "mind over body" incel wizards. Lay down your roman larp and live as your fore-forefathers did.

>>98305524
This is a lot less fuckable though

>>98305745
We had to effect changes to the baseline design in order to reduce the number of unfortunate incidents relating to the Improper Fraternization with Non-Human Entities.

>>98303461
>I always say that anyone that believes Zapathasura/Ravnos, the supposed antediluvian of a clan who carries deception in their very vitae, has suffered final death, based on no true evidence whatsoever, is genuinely retarded.
In setting sure but the meta hammer of the writers coming down on the whole Ravnos clan was pretty blatant.

>>98305524
It wasn't even on the Timetable, we were bored. We're bored again, you're next.

>>98304648
vampires hardly have sex given you need sufficient humanity to even use blush of life to get the blood flowing to the right anatomy and IMITATE that you're enjoying sex. and also all fluids from vampires are vitae which is kinda gross imagine getting a facial but its fucking blood

>>98305930
>vampires hardly have sex
Speak for yourself.
Also, my dick works fine even thought I'm hardly a saint.

>>98305930
get out of here with that v5 lore

>>98305930
>>98305954
>vampires hardly have sex given you need sufficient humanity to even use blush of life to get the blood flowing to the right anatomy and IMITATE that you're enjoying sex
That or it just gets up to a potentially hilarious blood cost to get the dick working again in Revised.

>>98305508
I'd assume Mormon would hit that nice middle ground of mundane and budget occultism that could make them interesting.

>>98305930
>>98305957
Doesn't pre-5th WoD tell you that your senses work just fine, but if you're seeking pleasure it's just not comparable to blood?

>>98305992
>Though most vampires (with the exception of Nosferatu) appear much as they did in life, they still display certain corpselike features; for example, their skin is unnaturally cold and ashen, and they do not breathe. By spending a variable number of blood points, a vampire may will himself to appear more human for a scene: flushing his skin, drawing breath, even becoming capable of engaging in sexual intercourse (this last, while helpful in certain types of feeding, in no way means that the vampire may inseminate a mortal or become pregnant; a corpse is still a corpse, after all). Performing these actions for a scene requires an expenditure of blood points equal to (8minus Humanity); thus, Kindred with Humanity scores of 8 or higher may accomplish these feats automatically, while vampires with low Humanity find the process exceedingly arduous.
>Revised edition core rulebook page 188
And yeah, even if you've got the dick working it's not as fun as biting people but I don't remember the exact quote comparing the two.

>>98305999
It only says you need to spend some blood to get your dick working, not that it can't feel anything.

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>>98305345
>Scientists would never.
if by Scientists you mean technoctards, I'm sorry to inform you their biologists are incompetent baboons who can't even make wolfgirls part of the Consensus

anons, why are the Progenitors so incompetent? first they let the worst pandemic in 100 years run rampant across the world, then they let a Verbena asset become the US Secretary of Health and Human Services
good job Progenitors, nice measles outbreak you've got going you bozos
meanwhile Iteration X is working their asses off making cute cyborg girls coincidental you know, why can't Progenitors be more like them?

There are kindred IN THIS THREAD who can't get their dicks hard.

>>98306059
I can't get my dick hard because my lower half is permanently fused to my horse
>t. Wraith

>>98306069
Just possess someone, idiot.
>t. Puppeteer BVLL

>>98306059
Why wouldn't my vampire be able to do that? It's not like humanity manners.

>>98306073
My last friend who tried doing that got turned into a plushie, I'm not sure I want the government's attention that way.

>>98306080
I think it's a clan-related problem.
Some clans just can't get it hard.

>>98306057
>then they let a Verbena asset become the US Secretary of Health and Human Services
Do you really think only the Traditions are a bunch of incompetent infighting idiots?
I think they just gave up and hoped a Trad Tard could fix the mess they made.
>meanwhile Iteration X is working their asses off making cute cyborg girls coincidental
And how's that going for them? So far they all seem to get 'doxed the fuck out with Uncanny Valley.

Clan cucks FEAR the Caitiff CHAD

>>98306059
>>98306083
>bottom clans in more than one way

>>98306057
>meanwhile Iteration X is working their asses off making cute cyborg girls
They're also dealing with issue of a death cult that's Funding the verbena assets, because both factions have such severe nephandi infiltration that they're members are directly responcible for Releasing the virus from progenitor labs in the first place.
On top of that ITX and the NWO are working to end internet anonymity forever as an attempt to claim the entire digital web under technocratic(read nephandi infiltrator) control.

The biggest issue for their plans is that a coalition of virtual adepts, sons of ether, and whistleblowers from the NWO and syndicate have exposed to the sleepers the middle eastern nephandi death cult that took over major parts of both the technocracy and tradition.

The time is nigh!! I’m going to summon Lady Liberty tonight and fuck her manifestation!!! I have the percs ready.

>>98306095
Salubri bros...

>>98306098
>working to end internet anonymity forever as an attempt to claim the entire digital web under technocratic(read nephandi infiltrator) control
>You will own nothing
>And be happy
>NWO
That’s the Syndicate’s doing. Easier to control and track your assets when they make your assets.

>>98306101
>three eyes
>no working dick
Grim.

>>98306099
>Least horniest Ecstatic

>>98306105
Anon, syndicate is majority free market capitalist, because that's what actually generates both real money and raw value for prime. Monopolies actually lose market value.

This os their central beef with the NWO, because the NWO LOVES monopolies. They're so easy for the to control, while a free market run by thousands of small and medium businesses is impossible to keep track of, much less Control. The NWO want total control, market value be damned.

>>98306113
>syndicate is majority free market capitalist
Damn, syndicatr has been getting kicked in the dick then. Not even america has been capitalist since Carter.

Every country on earth is some flavor of socialist, whether that takes the form of cronyist, fascist, or marxist socialism is the main difference.

>>98306107
Even if the Tremere let him out of the cage, there's no hope.

>>98306113
>>98306116
>The NWO has spent the last few decades trying to run the global economy "better" than the syndicate
>Global Economy in shambles, approach the largest hypereconomic market correction in history.
Sounds about right.

>>98306098
>On top of that ITX and the NWO are working to end internet anonymity forever as an attempt to claim the entire digital web under technocratic(read nephandi infiltrator) control.
Not Nephandi, Drones.

How do you typically distribute your Attributes? Do you specialize in a single one, do you spread out the dots a bit more, are there any Attributes that you never end up using...?

>>98306237
You tell me bumpfag.

>>98306010
that doesn't mean they can orgasm, which is now probably wired to their desire for violence and blood.

>>98306222
>Not Nephandi, Drones.
Nope, it's 100% the nephandi. Look at whose funding and passing the bills.
The weaver seems to be smart enough to understand overt and obvious powergrabs just destablize institutional order, untimately weakening long term order for short term gain.
Nephandi, not so much. When the "order" aligned infernalist nephandi inevitably fail, the malphean and outsider nephandi laugh and dance in the chaos those dumbasses create(which inevitably rats all the energy out of the chaos, allowing order again)

>>98306266
>Dude... Murderboner!!
That would be cool, even though I know that isn't how it works.

>>98306414
feeding is literally described as better than sex and is used as a metaphor for rape and embracing is described like a psychological urge to procreate.

vampires are supposed to be fucked up corpses that pervert and invert the sex and reproductive drive and not getting pleasure from sex or feeling love when you're an elder is supposed to be one of those horrendous drawbacks to being a vampire thats just normal for humans.

if a Bastet and Mage make babies, does the Bastet stick around with the family if any of the children go through the first change?

>>98306515
If Garou are anything to go by, they're all absentee parents. They just trade one poison (anger at Pentex) for another (overwhelming need to hoard secrets.)

are pentex really that evil desu? they just want to kill off the sexpest hippy murder wolves.

>>98306555
I dunno man creating a bunch of nyctophobes only to lock them in complete darkness when they don't meet expectations is a bit of a dick move.

>>98306555
Just treat Gaia with respect and you don't get murdered, how is that so hard?

>>98304940
Does the forcefemmed catboy masturbate as furiously as he sobs while watching you reenact Society (1989) with some cankerous Wyrm thing and a Onceborn Malfean whose nipples are dicks? Does the entire reliquary of an Earthbound get lost up your gaping anus in the process? Do the BSDs bring confectionaries for the occasion? Do they help bukkake you along with the nephwracks and bane mummies afterwards? Do you send a mass e-mail from your Pentex address with a video recording of the event attached to the entire assembly of the TU? How big of a living meme are you aiming to become?

>>98306515
Depends on the bastet. Obviously. Fera generally keep an eye on their kinfolk, which the children would count as. Unlike say garou, you're less likely to have the Bastet try to dictate as much, but you can still assume some gaian zealotry being taught to the children, and you better help or at least not hinder that.
A stereotypical bubasti might stay with you and study sorcery and teach the children, whilst something like a ceilican is unlikely to be interested in long term studying and childcare, unless you are constantly doing crazy as fuck magic.

>>98306655
>Needing to do crazier and riskier magic to entertain your catwoman like a dancing monkey
Grim what Mages will go through for some affection.

>>98306655
>...but you can still assume some gaian zealotry being taught to the children, and you better help or at least not hinder that.
now that you mention it I haven't run into any reading with Mages being tied up with gaian shenanigans specifically, barring a loose interpretation of brief splat opinion snippets. I'll need to double check reading priority, bit of a hole

What's the name for the parts of the setting that aren't affected by Consensus? I remember the Technocracy giving it some fancy name.

>>98305256
> traditional medicine shop
> chiropractor office
> pet shop
thoe are nice havens but aren't they too small for chantries? a chantry is at least theoretically meant to house 7 to 8 vampires + ghouls + tremere visitors

in practice most aren't fully staffed of course, but can you imagine the dress me down you would get if a lord visits and your chantry is too small to house him or any new apprentices they send you?

>>98306940
Mythic threads according to the Traditions, hypernarrative according to the Technocracy.

>>98307017
Mythic threads are just old bygones like unicorns according to the Verbana book.

>>98306057
if by Scientists you mean technoctards, I'm sorry to inform you their biologists are incompetent baboons who can't even make wolfgirls part of the Consensus
>meanwhile Iteration X is working their asses off making cute cyborg girls coincidental you know, why can't Progenitors be more like them?
At first I thought this post was made by the single-issue voter convention but that wouldn't make much sense. No true Iterator would openly voice their disdain for the people theyt constantly collab with. That's on top of implying that anyone wants to introduce experimental and highly unstable species into the Consensus. Send in the Men in White.

>>98306602
One can always take it farther, but I didn't actually think of any of that. Most important would be to put the cat in the cuck corner.

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>>98307227
the Technocracy are the real villains and the fact their Time Table doesn't even account for introducing catgirls(available for purchase at reasonable prices at your nearest catgirl stand, catboy and catfuta variants available too) to the Consensus is irrefutable evidence of the Nephandic rot consuming the TU
as we've seen in this thread Mages get to enjoy tender Bastet love, if the Technocratic Union still cared about the original mission of the Order of Reason they would be working overtime to bring the tender love of catgirls TO THE MASSES

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>>98305345
I mean, having sex with what is basically a savage animal pretending to be human should be off-putting to any rational person. That and we'll have to kill them all eventually, best not to become "friends" with your target.

>>98307473
Shouldn't you be posting in your mage incel forums, Virtual Toddler? Your fetishes are the least of the world's problems right now. Grow up, join the Syndicate and maybe then Control would even consider such an idea.

>>98304491
who cares

>>98306567
No! Nature is disgusting, I want every inch of land that isn’t used for housing or industry to be farmland and the wildest animal in existence to be the laziest dog alive

Why
Are
Werewolves
So
STUPID

Also where’s hedgefag

The homid ragabash took the skin from his sandwich and carved a mask. It was a great fetish for tracking bakeslave, he said. Maybe I should have gone to theurge instead.

>>98307767
>>98307791
This anti-Garou sentiment is making me want to harass the spiders again.
>>98307909
Should have gone to the Ahroun, we always know what to do. Can't ever trust a Philodox to make good decisions, even less than you can trust a Theurge to keep it in his pants around the spirits.

>>98307478
This is what all sex is though
We're just apes with thumbs in the end

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>>98307502
So you haven't realized Control is just you lot being puppeteered by the insane Middle Umbra embodiment of Stasis yet? You haven't even really bothered to check, you just immediately started fellating the boot the instant it was set before you? Or is the reason you have no interest in twee cat girl waifus like that kid because you've thrown away all your dreams and now you're into being infested with spider eggs or something? Already got a dead-eyed kuudere ananasi tugging your strings, huh? I see how it is. It's no surprise Team Oblivion has you chumps dancing in the palm of their hand.

>>98307767
No!!! I NEED nature, filled with.. dragons and shit, I don't know. The rabid wolves can do that job, I guess. All so my wizard tower can be far, far away from the fucking peasantry in their shitty cities. I want every fucking person who ever knocks or even beholds my awesome tower to have completed a perilous journey. Is that so much to ask?? Take me back to mythic europe..

>>98306602
>Do the BSDs bring confectionaries for the occasion?
I have concenrs.

>>98308050
That's the point where you draw the line? Not at the start when the nephandus gets too enthusiastic about performing the osculum infame? Probably practiced with all the BSDs in attendance, you know.

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>>98307502
nah fuck you dude, the Order of Reason was founded on a dream
a dream that Mages shouldn't get to have all the fun while plebs starve in straw huts, and that Science was going to bring that fun to the Masses
THAT is the promise of Science

>the least of the world's problems right now
the world has always had problems
chances are the world will always have problems
should Columbus have stayed home because his weird navigation theories were "the least of the world's problems" back then?
should radio and cinema not have been created because public entertainment was "the least of the world's problems" back then?
should the Wright Brothers have stayed on the ground because their fetish for wanting to fly like a bird was "the least of the world's problems" back then?
should the Neil Armstrong have stayed on the planet because wanting to reach the stars was "the least of the world's problems" back then?
Enlightened Science is made by dreamers, not by dim-witted buffoons like you
you cog in the machine
you Threat Null puppet
you Nephandic agent
you unawakened bureaucrat
you entropic agent of the wyrm
you killer of dreams
I spit at you!

>>98308217
Trvthnvke.

>>98308008
Mages seem to love being nostalgic for an age they weren't even born in.

>>98307928
Very primitive way of thinking, some reeducation will help you with that.

>>98307937
So you haven't realized Control is just you lot being puppeteered by the insane Middle Umbra embodiment of Stasis yet?
Wow, another Traditions conspiracy theory, how original... Give me one I haven't heared before, I'll wait.
>Already got a dead-eyed kuudere ananasi tugging your strings, huh? I see how it is.
Why do RDs always project their desires onto others? Not being able to keep it in your pants is one of many reasons that lead to the creation of the 5th precept.
>>98308217
>Science was going to bring that fun to the Masses
That's exactly what it did and is doing. You're trying to compare your need to fuck a cat-humanoid construct to curing cancer. That's why you idiots will never win the war, you're not looking at the bigger picture beacause you don't have one.
>should radio and cinema not have been created because public entertainment was "the least of the world's problems" back then?
>should the Wright Brothers have stayed on the ground because their fetish for wanting to fly like a bird was "the least of the world's problems" back then?
>should the Neil Armstrong have stayed on the planet because wanting to reach the stars was "the least of the world's problems" back then?
All were researched and tested before being introduced to the masses, just as Control had planned.
>Enlightened Science is made by dreamers
And these dreams are brought into reality once they're ready. I won't even comment on your pointless drivel, I'm sure you'll be able to talk about that with the men in black suits, they're suckers for good conversation.

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What Level 3 Gift would pair well with a Device that raises your Appearance to 5?

>>98308217
Craftmasons

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>>98308656
Whatever happened there?

>>98308506
Wow, I was kidding around, but this guy is genuinely lobotomized. Banality so bad one of the infernalists running his faction could walk in, snap their fingers, and the black flame of Oblivion would ignite him like kindling and excruciate him out of existence, and since he's a redundancy in the great weave of the union he loves so much, nobody would even notice. Control didn't say anything against it happening, though, so I guess he's cool with it.

>>98308672
>Banality
And that confirms my suspicions. You'd think that creatures that claim they're more in-touch with human dreams than humans would be better manipulators. Reality is often dissapointing. Well, for all your "hard work" you'll get an exclusive meeting with a certain citizen. Fair warning, he loves to talk about the price of stability or whatever.

>>98308697
>he thinks I'm kithain
You're gonna need to bring at least a nuke to slow me down, buddy. This character sheet makes Sam Haight look like an enlightened citizen. Guy in a suit you sent? He's three different beings on three seperate layers of the Penumbra now, and I didn't accrue Paradox. I don't even know what Paradox is. Is that what they call Backlash these days? Anyways, I'll drop this spiritually splintered guy off at Copernicus and ya'll can figure out whether the constituent parts of his soul qualify as a reality deviant now or not.

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Any of you guys have these kinds of weird flesh horror images? I'm collecting them for an upcoming chronicle

>>98308656
objectively the good guys of the world of darkness, too pure to survive

>>98308833
Cos, or some say Cosm..

>>98307928
said the nephandus

>>98307909
>>98304625

>>98306555
>are pentex really that evil desu?
Yes. They are actually more "true evil" than most antagonists.
>they just want to kill off the sexpest hippy murder wolves.
This isn't true. If it was, I'd support them completely. But Pentex wants to kill Gaia and ruin every living thing, fuck up your children, turn all the frogs gay, and laugh about it.

Thin-skinned woof defenders at it again.

>>98309181
This is why I don't fuck with Lupus Garou. The intelligence just isn't there, despite the claim that wolves can be somewhat intelligent.
>>98309389
>>98309344
Tell me one good thing about Pentex right now. Woof torture not included.

My himbo musclehead Toreador has loads of sex and still enjoys it, but he's worried about diseases and whatnot. How much would a mage charge for a ring of disease curing?

>>98309588
It's a game where you're a corpse that can supernaturally move without breathing, how are viruses and bacteria supposed to replicate inside a vampire to infect people

>>98309607
Viruses and bacteria only need to survive long enough to infect the warm bodies, and since he said his guy is moving around a lot, the chance is way higher. Take, for example, HIV; it's actually a huge problem with Kindred. Baali spread that shit on purpose.

>>98309588
>How much would a mage charge for a ring of disease curing?
It depends on the mage.
Your Awakened friend with 3-4 dots in the right Sphere(s) who hangs with you despite you being a leech? Could be free. Otherwise could be your life savings, a favor of their choosing called in later, or an ongoing payment like Vitae donations or outright indentured servitude. If you're really lucky, you'll find some dumb little slut you're able to ghoul and blood bond.
Fera fetishes, changeling treasures, and Fallen relics are all also options if you're able to get into contact with them and they don't nuke you on sight for being one of Caine's overgrown sperm.
Worth noting you can only be infected by a disease by drinking from someone who's already sick, but your lick might not know that.

>>98309588
One burger king value meal, a kiss from a fair maiden, two pinches of "fairy powder", the horns of a fierce red dragon and the land deed to the run-down mall downtown.

>>98309588
toreador are a unique case where they might actually still be capable of enjoying sex. which is why they are considered weird and hedonists to every other clan

>>98308833
This looks like a Leviathan just carrying out her duties for the mortals in her Wake

>>98309588
>How much would a mage charge for a ring of disease curing?
Don't trust these silly trinkets, they're bullshit. What you're looking for is an experimental vaccine. It's gonna cost you a pretty penny, though. Don't worry, these guys I know accept all things as payment, if you know anything about any mages in your area...

>>98309588
A lot, but they will want favors instead of money. They might not even give you what you want, since always needing to cure diseases risks the Paradox, so they might make it so the target's immune system gets a super boost for a while instead.

>>98309588
>He gets STDs as a vampire
Someone laugh at this clown for me, I was embraced at 85 and my jaw doesn't work

>>98309677
>Burger King
>A kidnapped child
>Two bags of cocaine powder
>A bad dragon dildo
Your Mage is a freak.

>>98309841
Speaking of Leviathan, how do you make those fuckers playable? I would mostly use Freak Legion or Deviant but I am sure there are some better options.

>>98310015
>freak legion mentioned
Have you looked into the Possessed book? Ive been combing through Freak Legion and Possessed because Im debating on making a sheet for my bakeslave persona.

Mildly off topic. Possessed says enticers have to take addiction (cosmetics) but doesnt say how many dots. FL says enticers take 4 dots (daily). Bakeslave is going to be a more unique fomori anyway, would I be able to just take 2-3 dots (1-2 weeks) as long as the rest of the math (autonomy and taints) balances out?

Shark here. Got less and more than usual to talk about today’s game. Less because I’ve barely done anything today. More because some heavy stuff happened. Rape and betrayals.

I have plenty of cleaning up to do at my apartment, but once I’m done I’ll go back to storytelling my game. Worst case scenario I’ll do it tomorrow.

>>98308008
You don’t need nature, you need therapy

>>98310101
Iirc you don’t have to specifically be an enticer to have succubus’ veil as a formori power. Those are born specifically from people who get hooked in Siren Cosmetics… well, comestics and then get possessed. Notably, even gorgons (wyld possessed creatures) cab take that same power, so you can just pick and choose which taints fit bakeslave best rather than being stuck with addiction

>>98309889
>A mage will Jew you out of what you want
Color me shocked.

>>98310146
Im pretty sure im overthinking it. At least from my reading, enticers are usually handpicked from beauty contest winners since the cosmetics are beyond expensive in general. Bakeslave was more of a lab rat. I like to think it was a fluke that a bane possessed him so quickly which is why he was promoted from 'animal testing' but isnt treated as well as a standard enticer. Im definitely giving him Unpossessed and Hidden Power. Unpossessed because I like to think the tzimisce torturing him already kinda drove him nuts and made it so his #1 priority is baking threads (with the title) so in a way he will never fully commit to the wyrm. Hidden Power is just practical and makes it more plausible why Im not making up a wacky story for him every thread.

>>98310292
The prettiest Nossie:

>>98310292
who let the country gangrel in?

>>98310295
>>98310303
Fools, that’s clearly a silver fang

What’s the hottest intersplat relationship and why is it the chad master mage and the elder vampire who looks like a twink

>>98310332
>Aging 200 yo Grandpa with barely functional magic hips + insatiable 700 yo twinkish sex addicted murderhobo who's been chasing the guy's reincarnated selves and grooming them
Tremere was afraid of this situation when his immortality juices began to fail.

>>98310332
nah ananasi and tremere toxic yuri is where it's add

>>98310332
My Kindred calls his crazy maniac pixie mage gf when things get too spooky.

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When imagination dies: the severance that's eating us alive
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei3yxh_Jqlc

>>98310332
>>98310346
Both of those are boring fagslop and therefore can't be the hottest by definition.

>>98310332
I prefer sister kindred + brother kindred (it's a single Malkavian who got groomed as a child into gender dysmorphia.)

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>>98308217
>should Columbus have stayed home

>not yandere psycho garou with mousy imbued hunter who hates violence

Mage game, but it's actually in the mind of a Malkavian elder high on pixie dust.

>>98310451
>Implying she isn't out fucking wolves for Gaia
A Metis on the other hand? That'd be kino.

>>98310332
Prometheans on Changelings, specifically Galateids on Fairest.

>>98310422
Sounds like the voerman sisters with extra steps.

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For the Fan Reboot of Darkness, how compelling should the average "normie" mortal be?

>>98310478
Voermans weren't fucking each other though were they?

>>98310480
Chronicles handled mortals as a semi-splat a lot better than WoD, realistic recovery times are important but a fight shouldn't put your character out of commission for months at a time. Also mortals being victim-tier jobbers isn't compelling, but they also shouldn't actually stand a chance against something supernatural

>>98310332
The objectively correct answer is silent strider garou and mummy bara

>>98310332
Speaking just from the limited pool of what's happened at my table: Female Ventrue wunderkind x manly Sorcerer occult detective.

>>98310509
from what i heard they shared the same bed.

>>98310511
I ask because I want to settle some conceptual ground before we start discussing hunters, sorcerers, and "stackable" templates.

>>98310538
>Nomad with attachment issues
>Powerlifter Mummy with attachment issues (opposite)
Why?

>>98310509
they had a giant heartshaped bed in the middle of their shared living room/office

>>98310546
>>98310572
Ohmaigah... that's very scandalous of those two. I'm sure they were more than aware of the nature of their condition and I don't necessarily want that for the Malk

>>98310332
Closeted SoL and the wraith of her 'best friend' from an all girl's university.

>>98310511 >>98310480
More importantly, what makes them so important both narratively and metaphysically?

>>98310822
I think they're important just out of being the template that all the other splats spawn from (except for Demons, who are just humanboos or something in every edition of the setting)

>>98310852
And what did we decide about changelings?

>>98310862
We? Who is this we? Jokes aside I don't recall any discussion being had for Changelings in this rework discussion

>>98310480
>>98310822
I remember toying with the idea that part of what makes mortals special is that they are essentially in home territory. The world was created to protect *them* from what was out there, it might not always be as obvious as the effects of holy ground but it's still there.

Which would make (some) mages the wannabe architects who are dissatisfied with the world and want to either change it or make their own, and risk breaking something important with their magic.

>>98310862
We had not really talked about them afaik.

I had considered the possibility of making them the faction that deals the most with the Umbra/Dreaming/Hedge, with the werewolves focusing more in the locally present spirits than otherworlds (basically trying to consolidate the ton of Umbras into just a couple), and I had wondered if the big Elder non-changeling fairies could be essentially working as marcher lords at the edges of the world (sort of a counterpart to the "underworld gods"/elder wraiths doing a similar job at the deepest depths of the underworld - making fae laws and contracts part of what holds the world together could fit, and it'd give a motivation why changelings must try to mediate between fae and humans instead of fully siding with humans whenever the fae are awful, they are doing an important job)

>>98310873
The fae were briefly mentioned here:
https://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/98000020/#q98009998 . But we never came to a conclusive consensus.

>>98310877
Could you elaborate a bit more? I'm not sure I like it, but I want to give you a fair hearing.

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>>98310896
Can we please move Werewolf away from Noble Savage Shamans and Spirit Cops?

>>98310480
Someone absolutely uninvolved in the supernatural, like an average Joe on the street? Pops like bubble wrap. Compelling is an interesting word though. Most plain mortals shouldn't be capable of winning against a real Freak. That's only physical strength though. Mortals can be very compelling emotionally. How does your changeling feel about their mortal parents, knowing they're basically a magical cuckoo leeching off mortal society? How does a Mage feel about their spouse who just can't understand how the world really works? These can be very compelling to the story, unlike an army of cops with riot gear who can probably take care of most basic supernatural shit. "Half splats" like hunters, ghouls, and sorcerers should be left to NPCs and PC minions.

>>98310862
>>98310873
>>98310896
>>98310908
I agree with >>98310927 . Werewolves should be stripped for parts and handed out to the other splats. Changelings fit their role of being the barrier between worlds way better, and Vampires fit being out of control violence freaks way better. Right now they're just the woke modern version of Gypsy.

>>98310927
>>98310981
What would you have werewolves be if not for Noble Savage Shamans (with knots) and Spirit Shamans (with mpreg?)

>>98310987
As with folklore, they would be serial killers in glorified fursuits. Or, if we want the pop culture route, tragic souls bearing a violent curse.

>>98310822
In the beginning, the world was nothing but chaos. Humans defined the world around them and created an island of normality in the chaos. That's the mortal world. Things get weirder and more abstract the farther out you go, whether that's by Mage standards or Changeling standards. I like the idea of using language to represent this, sort of like Ars Magica did with their magic words of power. Fey are shapeless and abstract, unless they've been given a name or title to nail them down. They love to bend the rules though. If one has multiple titles, then you could always ditch that title, cut it out from you, and make a new fey that has the power of the title, and the guilt for all it's crimes. That's how they reproduce. A fey can even toss a title into the mortal world to make a Changeling.

While Fey are abstract and defined by labels others have bestowed on them, Mages are humans. They wield the power of words. When a thought is put into words, it becomes less transmutable. When an oral traditional is written down, it becomes less transmutable. So, the ancient wizards of Atlantis built the consensus/the hedge around around the world to limit magic and creativity. They are now basically archfey, since even they will break down if they push too far away.

>>98310987
Mages (true faith)
>>98311004
>serial killers in glorified fursuits
Changelings
>tragic souls bearing a violent curse
Vampires

>>98311007
On the subject of titles, isn't it interesting that monsters so frequently have the attributes of the nobility and ruling classes?

>>98311007
I like most of that, except for the Atlantean Gauntlet.

>>98310873
>>98310908
>>98310981
Do we even want/need changelings? Why not go straight for the Fae?

>>98311041
Then you have the wraith problem of being too detached from humanity. I want a secret world just under the surface of society, not an abstract other world to get lost in. Wizard of Oz needs Dorothy. For a bit of a more modern example, the Transformers are at there best when they're on Earth with humans. I like some of the abstract high concept space stuff, but that's not gonna fill me like a teenager and giant robot bonding and fighting an evil robot or army general together.

>>98311014
You just want Werewolves to be Wizards who believe in God? Christian werewolves could be based though.
That is the problem with >>98311004 though, it already applies to all three versions and it's just further overlap that takes away from the pseudo-secret society angle that both Chronicles (to a lesser extent) and WoD itself share between all the splats. They have to have some level of organization, or they aren't a playable splat.

>>98311014
Don't you go comparing my based crusader mages (Celestial Chorus) to pagan savages who fuck dogs

>>98311041
>>98311051
Wraith maybe has the opposite problem of being TOO attached to all the bad parts of humanity and rarely any of the good unlike vampires.

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>>98311051
In this reboot, ghosts are very tied to humanity. It is more like The Sixth Sense than like Beetlejuice (but depressing). With regards to the Fae, there's nothing stopping us from making them either more grounded or adjusting them to our preferences.

>>98311079
Choristers are 5 speech checks away from walking into a dog's apartment anon, just need to get convinced that God works through Gaia or something and suddenly it just works.

>>98311066
True Faith doesn't just mean Jesus. I meant more in the broad sense of using rituals and spells like a shaman. I'd consider that True Faith.

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>>98311066
>Werewolves to be Wizards who believe in God

>>98311080
Nice try, bloodsucker.

>>98311084
Not if they're stacking TF on top of a more militant paradigm

>>98311097
I like to think of it in the sense that Vampires desperately try to live to cope with their eternal damnation, while Wraiths (the Nietzschean splat) see that there's no point so they engage more in the morose intellectual desires of humanity like bureaucracy (order) or slavery (servitude/purpose) or secrecy (inclusion)

>>98311107
I never did like the bureaucracy and slavery of Wraith: the Oblivion. It seems so out of touch with both the traditional ghost story and underworld myths. It is, ironically, too lively and too busy.

>>98311116
Lively? I'm not sure I agree, busy though? Certainly true. Partly the problem is that the "traditional ghost story" happens with all the possessions and skinlands interactions that would be better spent in Hunter or as an aside story. I'm fairly certain no one would want a longer RPG game about ghosts if fundamentally all you do is scare off teenagers and vibe until someone comes. Also it's important to keep up with the themes of the setting and if there aren't crazy levels of conspiracies layered onto your game it's not really WoD at its fullest.

You can run Wraith agnostic to the setting (or adapt it to Geist and not be a literal spook), but that's up to you. And probably will take more than an afternoon to figure out the details for I imagine.

>>98311123
>adapt it to Geist
That's more or less what I've been doing. I prefer the more grounded approach of Geist: the Sin-Eater. But when people get bored of the material realm, it gives plenty of underworld plot hooks.

>>98311133
Nice get, still though hard to get underworld plots going without underworld society going.

In oWoD, is there a way for Black Spiral Dancers to learn fomori powers, or are these just wholly separate from Bane Gifts?

>>98309424
>Tell me one good thing about Pentex right now.
Why would I? I literally just told you they are arguably the most evil faction. Even the Technocracy arguably have redeeming aspects or potentially good people that are heroes of their own story in it. Pentex doesn't.

>>98311304
There's some bullshit interactions with balefire you could rig to get a mutation/power.

>>98309424
>Tell me one good thing about Pentex right now. Woof torture not included
They're in the syndicate book

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>>98311084
Typical witches, falling for the devil's trickery unlike trad bvll Inquisitors.

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>>98311460

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>>98311545
Even a humble brick will do in the hands of the faithful.

>>98311571
I just find it funny how the best way to kill a true believer is to throw a brick at them.

>>98310915
I barely remember the idea, sorry. I don't think it was "humans have plot armor" or anything like that, though, since that would run counter to being a world of Darkness, and more... others have trouble belonging, be it from bans, banes, the world outright rejecting them... but for humans it is their home, it is designed *for* them. It might be as significant as whatever advantage a fae lord gets in their demesne, but it is for them and it's the entire world.

I think I might have been thinking about folding the concept of thresholds and needing an invitation into it? Or maybe that was just something that I had considered for either demon or changeling before forgetting about it (just one of them, depending on whether we interpret it as changelings needing to follow the rules of the land or demons as beings who don't belong and need to be invited for everything - to manifest upon the world, to take someone's soul, to enter someone's home...)

>>98310981
>Werewolves should be stripped for parts and handed out to the other splats.
I'm not strictly against that if others agree. We might want to keep their kind of play style playable, and there's potential in the civilization vs nature angle, but it's not as if others oWoD splats didn't also have pookas, gangrels, etc

>>98310373
also peak verbena schizo witch energy or perhaps something like a black fury

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>>98310981
You can make a Werewolf using other splats and odds are they will have an easier time sticking to the actual folkore. As usual I ask people who want to butcher WtA for parts, What does your take on werewolf do?

>>98310981
I think it's actually vampires which are bloated. Werewolves fit out of control violence freaks way better than vampires, conceptually. Vampires are inherently less "savage beast" in most media. Vampires kind of muscle in on every single other splat in the game. They were written first when no other competition for folklore existed and it shows.

>>98311460
Unrelated but Venator is nothing but kino lines

>>98311066
>They have to have some level of organization, or they aren't a playable splat.
Furries shouldn't be playable. The best version of werewolves is the Lupines, mindless killing machines that keep vampires from venturing too far from cities. If folklore and pop culture doesn't provide enough of a foundation for werewolves to be coherent splat without making up a whole bunch of retarded shit, then they shouldn't be a splat. In fact, this applies to almost every splat other than Vampire. Only Vampire the Masquerade has enough folklore and pop culture to support it as an actual game, basically every other splat is just a whole bunch of retarded nonsense invented by White Wolf.

>>98311754
Mages have the most lore by an order of magnitude, considering just how fucking broad the concept is. It basically incorporates every single human hero and human-like god ever conceived. After that, it's fairies changelings and other associated things. After that, it's probably ghosts and wraiths and stuff though this might actually be more than fairies depending on the region.
After that it's a huge, huge huge huge huge huge huge powergap and then it's wolves and vampires. No idea which one has more, but they are so laughably behind those ancient stories told a thousand times a thousand ways in every european country it's downright hilarious to me you'd think vampires are more represented than them. Most vampire folklore inevitably connects them to the dead rising or curses. For werewolves we've got a plethora of shapechanging fairies, druidic mages, malicious demons and so on.

>>98311772
'Mage lore' isn't barely about folklore or pop culture interpretations of magic. It's just White Wolf plagiarising a bunch of extant and extinct religions, only the Order of Hermes has anything to do with actual folklore or pop culture magic.
Similarly, the whole conceit of Changeling is a bunch of made-up bullshint about the changelings of Changeling (both version) aren't actually changelings. Even if the games were called Fairy instead, it would be incorrect, as over half of the kiths aren't fairies.
Vampire is the only game to successfully use the abundance of pop culture and folklore specifically focused on vampires in order to create a diverse game focused on vampires, without inventing retarded shit or forcing a whole bunch of different, unrelated things under a single umbrella to try and force a game into existence. Vampire the Masquerade is the only real World of Darkness game and you cannot refute that.

>>98311754
>The best version of werewolves is the Lupines, mindless killing machines that keep vampires from venturing too far from cities.

Screw that version too. What's the point of having those fuckers when you can just have some Gangrel elder own the countryside? What makes you think the wilderness wouldn't be owned with the same level of ruthlessness given the medieval inspirations ?

>>98311798
Fair point. Honestly, 'werewolf' should just be another name for Gangrel.

>>98311790
Oh nevermind I thought you meant the concept behind the splats and not whatever interpretation white wolf cooked up.
Vampire is FULL of made up shit about vampires to the point where it actually became part of the image of vampires. It's really this cooked up shit which makes VTM unique and good. Mages are too broad a concept and for what it is they did something really unique. Nobody plays changeling it's gay. Mummies are such a weird concept as a splat. Demons and Wraiths are like vampire but without a body and even edgier.
If you want WoD with less made up bullshit, you're going to nWoD aka complete dogshit nobody with a brain cares about. The schizo lore makes it good.

>>98311790
Sorcer is the book that gives people individual gimmicks for lose power magician playable in most other games.
Mage is for when are playing a guy like Merlin who's whole deal is how they can pull off all kinds of weird shit.

If you wanted a Harry Potter knock off you would have to copy the power structure from Werewolf and the power creation rules from the Caitiff books.

>>98311810
Something something Dracula had a fuckton of werewolf traits something something I haven't actually read the book.

>muh folklore autist is back
Just what we needed

>>98311814
>The schizo lore makes it good.
Nope. A good World of Darkness game has strong folkore and pop culture roots, that is the only reason why Vampire the Masquerade became as popular as it did, an order of magnitude more popular than all of the other less grounded splats combined.

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>>98311817
>Sorcer
Derp

>>98311829
Go play GURPS if that's what you want out of the game. Hell if you still want to use the Storyteller System use Freak Legion and be done with it.

>>98311857
I'm just here for VTM. Everything else that White Wolf has ever made is a disappointment.

>>98311869
Then honestly what fuck is the point of talking about the other games? Just post about what you are working for your next Vampire game and see if anyone helps you flesh out the concepts.

>>98311891
If someone wants tips and pointers on how to make a good World of Darkness fan reboot, I'm going to provide them. The first step is to scrap any and all 'schizo lore' and focus on the folklore and pop culture that made Vampire the Masquerade so beloved in the first place.

>WAAAAH IF YOU DON'T HAVE ANYTHING POSITIVE TO SAY DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL!!!!!!!!
When did this place become such a hug box?

>>98311917
When every criticism is reaped every thread.

>>98311977
I'm not going to refrain from saying the truth just because it offends you.

>>98311007
I think that I have been too influenced by Lovecraft to accept an anthropocentric universe.

>>98311657
That could be a nice change from the neo-Gnosticism of the Chronicles of Darkness and the post-modernism of the Old World of Darkness. What does everyone else think?

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>>98311663
>>98311723
>>98311728
https://maverick-werewolf.tumblr.com/post/177987070427/werewolves

https://www.digitale-sammlungen.de/view/bsb11686806?page=23

>>98312309
You just know.

>>98310480
>>98310822
My stance at my table is that humanity needs to be important beyond being a resource, and that it isn't actually that hard to do when you're not building your world as a dick measuring contest between writers.

Most playable stats start human. Humanity is the baseline. One of the biggest problems you have, partially on the writers and partially on the fanbase's part, is the sheer mental disconnect many have about acknowledging the humanity of most PC-compatible templates. Embrace someone, and they don't suddenly radically change into an alien being. The only things that truly alter their cognition is a change of what they hunger for and how intense that hunger is and a deep-seated survival instinct. Neither is actually that alien, I've seen people IRL "frenzy" in intense enough situations. A vampire still thinks, it can still choose (as much as a human can anyway), becoming a vampire doesn't magically alignment shift you to evil like in D&D. It just gives you tremendous incentive to be your worst self and often punishes attempts to be decent. A vampire is still, in my estimation, human. If they cease to be, it was of their own making. But even freshly embraced fuckheads who still have friends and attachments will act as if they aren't, usually to feel superior or to change their tribal distinction to make feeding feel less wrong. As an in-universe phenomenon it makes sense, but too many people take it seriously.

But beyond making Humanity important as a setting phenomenon, make sure to give your monsters genuine disadvantages. A lot of the "normies are resources and logistic obstacles" I find repellent in a lot of oWoD lines comes from the fact they didn't give the monster something like the vampire's sunlight weakness. Basically, make sure that the monsters have drawbacks that are exploitable enough that smart humans can abuse them to have a reasonable chance. They don't need to be advantaged, nor should they be. But a reasonable chance.

>>98312598
>humanity needs to be important beyond being a resource
How? Under capitalism, even humans treat humans as resources.

>>98311091
Anon you don't understand, most of these people are genuine trolls, wikidiving HtP babies who don't even know what nWoD is, or ancient grogs who think Revised was a mistake and are still bitterly seething over forum arguments from 2002.

Yeah, we've had the solution for people who want folklore accurate werewolves ages ago. We've even told them as such before. They don't care. They either dismiss it out of hand or don't actually want a solution.

That being said Skinchangers is an excellent book alongside Inferno and Immortals. It's interesting how much of nWoD's best work was in these simple minor templates launched as splat-neutral books. It supports my very controversial opinion that the Splat system is actually the critical flaw with WoD, and the cause of most of its problems as a setting and game system.

>>98311728
Excellent point here really, even if Dracula can for instance turn into a wolf or some other animals, it's still not the same blind savagery of the werewolf or the same hoboesque commoner aesthetic that the Gangrel use (and Drifter from deadlock uses.) Poor vampires aren't unique to WoD but Vampires having social classes a lot more emphasized in WoD, tangent aside though this means that VtM is heavily muscling in on a lot of folklore and pop culture that probably would be better off attributed to a different splat. Admittedly, this is what made it so good to begin with as it has insane coverage and thematic coherency.
>Le thoughtless savage and inner beast murderhobo (typical Werewolf)
Gangrel, independent of shapeshifting, and the Beast in general
>Wizards and Occultism (non-Vampire)
Tremere, some Tzimisce stuff
>Ghosts and Dark Magic/Necromancy
To be fair, between older vampires and Castlevania, vampires were pretty tied into this theme, but it's covered extensively with the Giovanni (along with incest) and those groups
>Gypsies, Fae, the Wild Hunt, etc
Ravnos, Lasombra, etc
>Cultured pagan tribes and blood sacrifices
Brujah
>Judeochristian mysticism
The entire splat even.
>Demon shit
Baali
>Mummy shit
Setite overlap here is insanely deep
>Pagan gods
A lot of clans larped as some back in the day and still do

The one thing Vampire doesn't do is try to use real culture as a basis for the supernatural, which is probably the reason all the werewolf tribes are very culturally-inspired like with Egyptian wolves, Asian wolves(this one was hilariously racist, but that's par for the course), Norse wolves, Italian wolves, Irish wolves, Scottish wolves(gone black), two different native wolves, Amerimutt wolves, German wolves (Fangs), Slavic wolves, etc. The only thing really missing are shit like Aztec wolves, African wolves, Spanish wolves, or Balkan wolves but that's what the Fera are for.

>>98304491
>TQ
Somehow, no. Closest we've gotten to 1776 was 1816. Haven't run any games set in and around other national independence movements. When we were doing VtM set in Washington D.C. though, some of the vampires there were Revolution era.

>>98312598
>people IRL frenzy
All it takes these days is wrongthink.

I was told that the Order of Hermes and the Tzimisce both bond over their shared hatred of the Tremere

Is this true?

>>98310511
>but they also shouldn't actually stand a chance against something supernatural
Cringe and Retarded take. 60% of folklore is about mortal gigachads taking down supernaturals of incredible power.

This is one area where chpnicles does well and oldwod sometimes does well. The average normie mortals should get curbstomped, but actually trained mortals with knowledge of the supernatural should be able to kick ass whether that be through exploiting monster weaknesses, superior firepowers, learning couple supernatural tricks, or good ole' Deus Vult.

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>>98312651
>That being said Skinchangers is an excellent book alongside Inferno and Immortals. It's interesting how much of nWoD's best work was in these simple minor templates launched as splat-neutral books. It supports my very controversial opinion that the Splat system is actually the critical flaw with WoD, and the cause of most of its problems as a setting and game system.
Please, elaborate.

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Vikings

>>98312651
>who don't even know what nWoD
Thing is, Nwod is dead. It's been dead for years. It doesn't even get the steady influx of fan content Owod does. If we made a general for it, it'd be slower than the d&d 3.5 general.
To be brutally honest, Why the fuck should newfags to this hobby care about it?

>>98311083
>With regards to the Fae, there's nothing stopping us from making them either more grounded
> Fae
>More Grounded
The fuck are you smoking anon? It's clearly time to stop.

>>98312755
I don't know, who doesn't hate the Tremere? They also frequently "team up" with other groups over shared enemies also iirc.

>>98312767
>Mortal gigachads
Yes, and if you are a hunter and by definition a gigachad you are not a normie. PC exceptionalism and notable NPC exceptionalism are part of the medium and not reflective of normies. I'd also still say a Hunter, even a gigachad unless they're a Conan-tier maxed physical grug, should be losing hand to hand against most of the supernatural or whatever their chosen method is. You wouldn't be wrestling a werewolf or a vampire without understanding you're in significant danger and be likely to die for instance.

>>98312809
Because it's fun and good. Plenty of people are still running Hunter: the Vigil, and one Anon is planning a Forsaken game. I'm playing CtL right now. There are still StV books coming out for it (most recently circle of crone covenantbook 2e, I believe), and there's my VtM to VtR conversion fanbook.

Most of WoD is dead, and this general is only fast because it's really easy to bait into lengthy arguments. Going off of actual gameposting, I'd say what people are playing is fairly mixed.

>>98310927
Weirdest part about wod werewolves is that they swapped their folklore with fairy folklore. Vice versa with changeling.
Folklore werewolves were people that created dream projections or hallucinated so hard it spread to other people.
Folklore fae are spirits of the earth and nature with their own social hierarchies that live incompatibly to modern man and are hurt by modern thing(iron weakness).

>>98312842
So you agree nothing needs to actually be changed and there's zero issues with how the Vigil does things?

>>98312867
Even in Vigil your mortals only stand a chance through cooperations and ingenuity rather than because they're well-statted or powerful. I'm sorry if there was confusion but that was the original point that I was making. Mortals should be capable of dealing with things and not immediately becoming a smear of blood on the wall, but a single one should not be capable of going toe to toe with the supernatural barring shit like overpreparation or exceptional luck.

>>98312775
>elaborate
On Skinchangers? Well it does what it says on the tin. It's a book all about the Skinchanger template, which is your folklore accurate "mystic dons an animal's skin to gain its power and/or take its form" lycanthrope/totem warrior supernatural. They're built very a la carte, based around the ritual/s they use to skinchange. It can be as banal as a guy who just dons a wolf skin to turn into a wolf, to creepy skinwalkers that wear the skins of human victims to physically impersonate them, or even to ritualistic totem warriors who turn into horrifying human-animal hybrids aka dimestore werewolf war forms they have several bespoke powers and the option to buy Werewolf: the Forsaken gifts as one-offs to fill in any potential gaps. The main risk is that skinchangers have a humanity-esque system for becoming more bestial and feral as the man and beast blur into each other, with the possibility of being stuck as an animal forever or at least stuck in the mindset of a wild beast. Having used them as an ST and fought them as a PC, they're very good for what they are.

There were similar books to Skinchangers, such as Inferno which is for Demons that aren't nWoD's techno-gnostic cyber fallen angels, just normal, honest to goodness demons, possessed, and other infernal stuff. There's also Immortals, which is... for humans that cheat death through a variety of means like blood bathing, body-swapping, pulling a Dorian Grey, harvesting adrenochrome... All simple concepts done very well that are easy to slot into any game.

As for elaborating on my "splats were a mistake" position, I'll do that in my next post.

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>>98312796
>Get of Fenris circa 1971, colorized

>>98312825
The Giovanni don't hate the Tremere, I think. But they're also very similar to them, so I can't imagine they like them either.

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I do not care for Hunter the Parenting. It insists upon itself.

>>98312755
I think that was a hypothetical scenario some anons cooked up in a thread awhile ago. I don't think they've ever directly interacted in canon, but they do know about each other and I can see it happen.

>>98312896
>but a single one should not be capable of going toe to toe with the supernatural barring shit like overpreparation or exceptional luck.
That was the part I had issue with. Exceptional mortals capable of 1v1ing powerful supernaturals is one of the conerstone genres of storytelling and folklore.
I'm not sayning gigachad mortals should be common, but I take issue with your assertion that they shouldn't exist at all. It's the same kind of thinking that lead the wod writers to writing the trainwreck that is V5.

>>98312994
>I do not care for Hunter the Parenting
I like a lot of it, but I'm not a fan of alfa's version of the lore. The fact he tries to mix-and-match between owod and wod5 is gonna blow up in his face at some point.

>>98312994
I quite enjoyed the vampire part in the beginning, up until the nosferatu died.
Since then it feels like they're just piling on plot threads that will never get resolved.

>>98312911
So as we frequently see in this general, a frequent point of complaint about oWoD was that its splats were often messy to mix together, contrasted poorly with each other, contradict each other, and the rules were often messy as hell. This isn't surprising, the writers themselves said they specifically designed each splat independently, with cross-compatibility as a secondary concern. Their justification for it was that it meant one splat wouldn't be bound or restricted by what existed in another. In a vacuum, that sounds fair, especially since WoD was not pre-planned. Vampire: the Masquerade was an unexpected hit, though ironically, they had the idea for Wraith of all things beforehand. Combine this with different writers and yeah, you can see why they went the way they did. And to be fair, it did create a lot of games that people ended up liking.

But it created problems. They never seriously tried to harmonize them, but also, they kept toying with the idea of crossover, of a combined setting. At the end of the day, everyone likes the idea of a combined WORLD of Darkness, but very few actually like what it was by default. The policy of "combine what you want" works on paper, but when it's regularly being undermined by a writer's room that alternates between massive cross-splat action figure smashing metaplot events and pretending the rest of the world doesn't exist, it's a very hard sell in practice. That and honestly, most ST's are lazy and don't want to do the hard work themselves. Too many cooks, no effort towards tonal, logical or even mechanical consistency. The splat system was the writers wanting to have their cake and eat it too, to expected results.

But it didn't need to be this way.

cont.

>>98313029
Exceptional mortals existing is fine and based, but I'm not entirely sold that the PCs should be at that level of exceptionalism all the time.

>>98313103
There were a few not explicitly vampire books put out before the idea of splats had crystalized. Hunters Hunted and Mummy 1e. HH even had previews of things that'd become Arctos/Christopher Barrow, who is very clearly a proto-mage, down to using the term Willworker, and his werewolf henchman, Kanglor. Both use VtM rules, since that was all that existed at the time, but both served as non-vampire but supernatural characters, more than just the artificial barriers that were other 1e werewolves. Mummy 1e isn't really meaty enough to be its own splat, and does feel very supplementary to Vampire, but it had its own unique powers. Even interesting rules that, while born of necessity (the book being somewhat barebones) could've been backported to vampire but never was: that being special bonuses for having 6+ dots in attributes. While it's impossible to know for sure how things would've turned out on a different path, I think they could've refined this way of doing things. Build off of what's already there, and so the first stuff doesn't get left behind, include material they can actually use too. You decide you want to explore the spirit world with your werewolf book? Don't just leave vampires as the one umbral illiterate type of monster (what ended up happening, and one of the big dissonances of combined oWoD), make sure to write out the umbra stuff in such a way that any splat could access it, even if werewolves are the specialists. Why did previous books not mention this? Elders hide many truths from their progeny, neonate. It's not too hard to do. nWoD actually had a splat neutral underworld book that did exactly this. While being the obvious focal point of Geist, it included underworld ideas and plot hooks for every splat.

Speaking of nWoD, I think it definitely suffered from the splat system in its own way.

cont.

>>98312994
>>98313036
>>98313047
I like it quite a bit, but I do fear that they're trying to later on too much at the same time. Not a huge fan of the 5th edition and older more mix as well but adding in Chronicles elements is fine by me. I don't think it's entirely fair to judge an arc before it's finished though, but the first arc was definitely a lot better paced and directed than this one currently. We haven't really had a payoff yet.

>>98312986
That is fair, but if I were a wizard I wouldn't trust another wizard.

>>98312796
>Vikings
didn't those guys all worship Odin who was actually a Gangrel methuselah?
kinda cucked to be a werewolf living in a society that is literally worshipping a vampire not gonna lie

in fact WoD paganism seems extremely cucked in general and just a set of beliefs made so vampires have easier access to blood dolls
I bet Odin, Set, Ishtar, Mithras and Artemis are just the tip of the iceberg

>>98313126
>that the PCs should be at that level of exceptionalism all the time.
>all the time
I did not say that anon. You are trying to put words in my mouth.
My only argument is that exceptional mortals should exist. In the same way I think V5 pairing everything down to "Street level Only", I think your original idea would have cut off many kinds of play for zero actual gain.

>>98313136
It was in many ways better at keeping things consistent, at least rules-wise. It was never perfectly balanced, nor would such a thing even be possible, but at least there were universal power resolution systems and enough commonalities to make hopping from one to another not a total headache. However, I think keeping splats created a lot of problems both internal and external. VtR was too different from VtM to be accepted as a replacement, but too similar to stand on its own merits. Thus it never had a chance, despite (imo) a lot of good points in its favor. The two stand-out lines were Changeling, which was radically different from its oWoD equivalent, and Hunter: the Vigil, which was both very different from Reckoning, but also truer to the original vision in Hunters Hunted. However, with the wounds of oWoD's very unsatisfying and sudden end followed by the immediate kinda-reboot closed, even those that were in that irksome middle ground can be judged on their own merit. The big place where I think the splat system fucked nWoD/CofD was in the writer's room. Different writing teams developed their own internal cultures and worse, started playing favorites. This happened in oWoD too, but got really bad in nWoD, mostly during the transition to 2e/CofD. A lot of splats got a power level boost. Which benefitted or suffered from this is hotly debated, but it's near universally agreed that both Vampire and Werewolf benefitted from their new templates immensely since physical powers were pretty nerfed in nWoD as an overcorrection from oWoD. However, this triggered an arms race, spearheaded by one writer for Mage, DaveB. He was a power fantasy autist without equal, even sometimes posted here waaay back in the day. Mage was his pet splat, and he wanted it to be the best at everything, the undisputed main characters, and the bedrock of the metaphysics of the setting. He even started breaking universal cross-splat rules to make Mage stronger.

cont.

>>98313171
This resulted in some serious spikes of power to "keep up", and fueled a lot of "my dick's bigger" fights in the fanbase leading to general bitterness. Again, the splat division I think harmed both the idea of a combined WoD and the individual splats themselves.

Which is a shame since 1e nWoD, despite its many problems (and I will not pretend otherwise, it had a lot of problems), produced many amazing splat-neutral books like Skinchangers. I genuinely think they did some of their best work when they did not feel bound by splats and could just focus on a single concept, both capable of slotting easily into other games and standing on its own. I think if they'd leaned more into that, and people were able to contain their favoritism to work together and build a genuine "take what you want" toolbox WORLD of Darkness, it would've been even more successful and that even if it wasn't, we wouldn't be stuck arguing about stupid shit and getting into dick measuring contests over whose Halloween monster is stronger.

Thanks for suffering through my autism, give Skinchangers, Inferno, and Immortals a read.

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>>98313158
their patron is fenrir, there are just some that like to larp as thor

>>98313158
no odin is a spirit or true fae or those might be two odins. odin the vampire is assumed even by his bloodline to be a high priest that went so far into the role it fully consumed him

but you are still right the get fenrir are pretty much norse satanists and all the other norse splats who get along just fine (atleat before the shattering) all think that they are stupid idiots because they want to cause ragnarök (which is their word for the wta apocalypse) because the think they will win! despite having lost to odin (unclear if odin the necromancer and odin the vampire are the same or if there is a 4th odin) before and they lost so hard that he sealed their totem spirit fenrir and odin thinks he can't handle ragnarök even with the entire norse spirit phanteon, a gangrel bloodline, a sidhe house and two mage factions (Valdaermen and Spirit-Talkers aka proto dreamspeakers) at his back

>>98313178
>Thanks for suffering through my autism, give Skinchangers, Inferno, and Immortals a read.
But what about MUH Slasher?

>>98313140
> if I were a wizard I wouldn't trust another wizard
Isn’t this canon? Isn’t this why the Union is more unified and undivided? The Order of Hermes could have annihilated the Tremere but they’d rather die than share their magical secrets with their peers, even during a fucking wizard’s war.

>>98312994
You could cut about 1/2 of it and the pacing would improve a lot. That being said, primers gonna prime so at least that works.

>>98313204
Slasher's one of the more known ones so I didn't feel like mentioning it. I was already longposting enough.

Do love me some Slasher though.

>>98313204
Honestly, Who the hell are you talking about?

>>98313225
They also attacked the Tremere at night which was real stupid of them. Keep in mind they're supposed to be the Mages that know the most about Kindred.

>>98313225
>The Order of Hermes could have annihilated the Tremere but they’d rather die than share their magical secrets with their peers, even during a fucking wizard’s war.
that was part of it but you understimate how stupid the order of hermes was/is

the first war was lost because; the "demigod like" hermetics at the top couldn't fathom that their minions of which most according to dark age mage just had arete 1 would lose to anything in the world of darkness because they been so far up their ass that they forgot where they themselves came from, their relationship with the sleepers been so bad that both commoners and the shadow inqusition prioritized targeting them before both tremere and tzimisce killing half of them before they even seen a single tremere and they been so dismisive of any outside threat that they just filed any attack as a tremere attack to the point where they (somehow) didn't notice the free masons for 200 years because they just assumed that the group raising chantries all over europa it was just more tremere nonsense

the not sharing secrets is what caused the second war because mages would take tomes from the order's collection and then eventually either die or fuck off into the umbra without ever returning their library books while the tremere had a orderly system about that even when they where still mages because they been the order and logistic autists of the hermetics so the hermetics went to war mostly to steal some old books that they used to have themselves

what really caused them to lose the war was on one part the order censoring vampire lore because they didn't wanted recruits to know how stupid they been during the first war which caused them to not know about the blood bond and the fact that higherranking members, mostly of house tytalus been totally okay with sending awakened members of the order to their death for some vitae/quint and said old books that didn't actually do anything for them

>>98313163
I think we're both reaching for straw men tbf, I didn't mean to imply that I had thought you meant that nor am I against exceptional mortals characters or powerful PCs, I just mean more so and especially in the context of the anon's discussed WoD remake that mortals should be more powerful than regular WoD in so far as being able to stand against the undead and have somewhat more enjoyable downtime spent on recovery between fights. A hunter PC being out for literal months to a year after a fight might be realistic but it's not fun to play for instance. I just do not think that, in a fair fight as was my original intention, a regular human (a mortal) should not be capable of beating a vampire or other paranormal creatures. Maybe once in a while there might just be the 5 STR Conan who unhinged a vampires jaw with his neck muscles alone, but they shouldn't be too numerous or else the setting swings the entire other way and it's now a case of
>How the hell are there still vampires when McChad just has to do neckpulls to make himself immune to the vampire

>>98313187
I imagine more than one Ragabash larps as Loki

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>>98313191
>odin be like:

What do you typically use Academics and Investigation for? I get the feeling I'm underutilizing them.

Could Perception + Investigation be used to detect lies, for example?

>>98313191
Funny that Fenrir chugging out basically broke the Garou Nation in W5.

>>98313298
>Could Perception + Investigation be used to detect lies, for example?
no that would be perception + empathy

investigation is more for the first part of a monster of the week supernatural episode, detective work, checking out crime scenes looking for clues etc

academics is knowing/recalling things related to higher education

>>98313298
I'd think it'd be better to use Investigations for some LA-Noire esque info, not so much if they're lying but to notice verbal and visual habits of the target.

>>98313299
well just because you are the laughin stock and least liked member of one community doesn't mean you can't be a pillar of another community with other values

>>98312309
Can't really read it right now, but it looks like it might be a good source of info to figure out a niche for werewolves instead of discarding them. Will try to give it a read later

>>98313296
to be fair. White wolf certainly didn't intend to read it like that they almost certainly just threw in norse mythology into nearly every splatline but if there is one entity that should have a dozens proxies and different identities that make it hard to guess it's true nature it should be odin

>>98313328
The Get were well respected (if slightly distrusted) members of the Garou Nation. If anyone was going to Chud out you'd assume it'd be the RT or one of the Native tribes.

>>98313383
The Get were well respected (if slightly distrusted) members of the Garou Nation
i meant for the second community to be the garou nation and for the first to be the general nordic supernaturals