Firearms in fantasy settings. Yay or nay? Why yes and why nay?
give me your opinion, slopper, and I will give you mine.
>>98312708She's cute.>Firearms in fantasy settings. Yay or nay?Sure.>Why yes and why nay?Very simple firearms existed during the Middle Ages, so they wouldn't be out of place.
>>98312708Nay, guns in fantasy are incredibly faggy and unheroic. No, I will not elaborate further because you barely put an effort into this shit topic yourself.
>>98312742>She's cute.Right? Here's another pic of her.>Very simple firearms existed during the Middle Ages,Very debatable. They only became prominent in the Late Middle Ages and even they were not very reliable in common battle.
>>98312708did you rush here to dump fanart of the latest gacha shit?
>>98312763>Right? Here's another pic of her.Thanks, man.>They only became prominent in the Late Middle Ages and even they were not very reliable in common battle.I'm sure there could be some alchemy or magic bullshit that prevents the bullets from spreading like a town bicycle.
>>98312708As always, depends on the setting>Westeros, Conan and the likesfuck off>Warhammer Fantasy, Warcraft, Ebberon and the likessure, have your guns
>>98312708Single-shot muzzleloaders that account for reloading in a way that makes them mechanically distinct from bows? Cool.Anachronistically advanced revolvers/automatics that basically ignore the reloading process in favor of Hollywood-style gunplay? Not cool.
>>98312789I don't think bullets were the problem, since bullets used for ancient guns were fairly easy to produce in the middle ages. The real blunder was the reload process, before you could load your next shot you got slashed to pieces by the next lunatic with a pollaxe.>>98312798Revolvers are already not middle ages. But revolvers and swords were certainly used at the same time period though.
>>98312770That's a character from several years ago.Also, that's a dude.
>>98312708Always, they add a third tier to ranged combat, especially in D&DFinder (sadly PF2e firearms are utter dogshit and it's nearly impossible to homebrew for due to how interconnected mechanics are in PF2e).I've got a whole slew of homebrewed firearms for D&D 2024, and reworked Bows and Crossbows. Generally speaking, bows are the cheapest option but do the least damage with the least range and have no means to access the oft-forgotten Reload property, Crossbows are a step up with slightly more damage and a single option with Reload, and firearms have the most range and options with the most damage variety with Reload present on anything that isn't a flintlock, but are the most expensive option, and don't go beyond bolt, lever, and revolver weapons. For my own TTRPG, it's modern fantasy so I can get a bit crazier. There are automatic weapons and whatnot, but the limiting factor is that by default almost all the firearms are Synthetic, made from polymers and what have you, which means they can't hold magic so they can't be enchanted with magical effects, unless you pay double price for one with specially made wooden furniture and natural metal parts rather than composites, which is why melee weapons and bows/crossbows still hold a place in the setting and system, they're easy to make from purely natural materials and thus hold enchantments.
>>98312870>The character with huge tits is a dudeThat's as disingenuous as saying Astolfo from Fate is a woman because the artists drew him as a woman and just said "yeah he's a dude with a dick".
>>98312708Traditional games?
>>98312708How many times do you have to gave this same useless "discussion" where everybody just parrots the same shit over and over again? Fucking talk about your games or something you fucking bot.
>>98312708You've been spamming this topic for more than 10 years.
>>98312708The fuck is that mechanism supposed to be?
>>98312919Neat.In muh system, I have bows requering the most amount of strength to use (compared to their damage), but can achieve faster attack rates or multishot skills. All ranged weapons use a ranged skill for hitting and damage, the strength is a requirement.Crossbows can only shoot once per turn, have some armor penetration, require a bit less strength to use, but a technology skill. Some can be used one-handed, thus combined with a shield or another weapon. It sits a bit at a weird spot between the other two options.Gunpowder weapons can only shoot once per round, require a reloading action (I wanted to go for that "shoot and then run into melee" feel of earlier gunpowder, or the character needs to sit still and reload), huge amount of damage reduction, but require a specific gunpowder skill.
>>98312929Or because he cosplayed as his sister with the earnest intention of knocking up said sister's gf.
>>98312708Love me firelances, and like the idea of the torturous action economy on reload turning them into a mundane "per-encounter" option.
>>98312929That guy is also from Fate.He's a guy who was an assassin where the most interesting thing (and really the only interesting thing) about him was he failed to kill Oda Nobunaga and was beheaded as a result.So, in typical Fate fashion, they threw in that after he failed to assassinate Nobunaga, he asked a sorceress to disguise him, and she turned him into a woman, which he was very much upset by and was even more upset over when he his spirit was brought back and the magical body he was placed into also ended up being female.He has all his memories of being a guy and a very manly personality, and him having a female body is just an odd quirk that only really comes up as a subject for jokes. It's basically a necessity because otherwise he would just be a sengoku-era guy with a gun, and that's just too boring.The whole reason he's even in the game is because he's part of the Guda-Guda crew, where the most obscure historical figures become servants as an unabashed way to address the complaints from fans that lots of far more important historical figures were being ignored while minor Japanese ones were being treated with high reverence, so they're throwing in random people that even most Japanese people have never heard of as a direct way of saying "We can do whatever the fuck we want."
>>98312708JRPGs have been making guns work in fantasy settings for longer than most of us here have been alive. Sometimes its literally just normal guns, other times its more weird stuff like gunblades. Point is, as long as it works aesthetically within the logic and aesthetics of the world thats all that matters.
>>98313255SEXO
>>98312864>Revolvers are already not middle agesThe earliest revolvers are early modern era and they sucked
>>98313194You don't reload them, you carry several for New York reloadsIn GURPS especially you have no choice when muskets take a minimum of 20 rounds to reload
>>98313400Which costs extra, and so in a level-based system by the time you can afford enough guns to treat them as at-will in a typical combat length they'll be on-pace with at-will effects.
>>98313194>>98313400Given that this is for a fantasy setting, you can justify using some of the more esoteric firearms options. My favorite of which is the semi-automatic flintlock, which is a real thing that was actually made in limited quantities and used by about 100 people on the british side of the american revolution for testing purposes, but they pretty quickly fell apart as a unit after the guy who was in charge of the project was injured in the first battle and died in the second, and most of the guns were lost in the resulting route. Basically, its was a single removable drum filled with layers of shot and power like a cake, and an ignition mechanics, that would slide along the side to line up with the 7 pre-drilled firing holes that lined up with the 7 layers of powder. The big limiting factor was that once your fired the first shot, it ignited a fuse and you had until that fuse burned out (about a minute) to use it on the pre-loaded shot before it had to be replaced and re-ignited. So once you fire the first shot, the next 6 have to be used quickly before you get locked into the reload no matter how many shots you actually still have in the gun. And then if you want more than 7 shots, instead of reloading then and there you are supposed to pop out the entire drum and slot in a second one thats already packed. Because loading an entire drum itself is so time intensive that you just can't expect to do it on the line, you'll never several minutes to do it properly.
Magic Guns
>>98313255So she's a woman, like Artoria or any of the other servants who got genderswapped, and you calling her a man is just you being retarded.
>>98313794NTA, but there is a meaningful distinction to me made here between characters like Artoria (who in Nasuverse was always female its just her legend that misremembered her as a man due to historical inaccuracy) and ones like this character who was canonically a man who then was transformed into a woman by events. Artoria is a genderswap from our perspective, but as far as the character is concerned she's always been a woman. Not so much with characters that actually were genderswapped by magic.
>>98312708In "traditional" fantasy settings?Yes.Because before revolvers figthing wasn't THAT different. Or, put it another way: yes, firearms were considerably more lethal especially in war, but the non-repeating nature of the fighting means your swashbuclking action will feel similar enough to just using crossbows.Tolkien riffing on Ariosto's themes of "oh noes, black powder killed knights!" nonwithstanding.>>98313262I see your gunblade and raise a gun-halberd!
>>98312708Depends on what firearms. I do allow primitive ones. But they never become very popular at my table. They use gun powder, and fire magic is common.
>>98312708Sure. Why not.>Why yesfirearms have been in use for about the last 800 years. They actually PRE-DATE the classic "knight in shining armor mounted on a mighty steed" thing you see so often in fantasy.So like modern firearms? No, that's stupid. I wouldn't allow that in the same way I wouldn't allow laser pistols or machine guns or whatever. But historical firearms, stuff that's weaker and slower? Yeah, sure. Mechanically I figure they should be fairly strong... WHEN you can fire them. But they take like a good 30-60 seconds to reload before you can fire again. Have fun spending more time than most combats last doing that.
>>98312708Guns are cool and people who think they aren't are wrong and bad and gay.>elaborateIt is known.
>>98312919>PF2e firearms are utter dogshitI run PF2e but haven't gotten to use guns much yet. On paper they seem fine, what makes them an issue?
>>98314202The ideal way to do early firearms IMO is that they do above average damage, but have a penalty to hit outside of point blank range, and they are treated as an 1/encounter gear where you technically CAN reload it in combat but its generally a poor idea to try because it will take 3-4 rounds. So you go into combat, and your gun is basically an emergency weapon/an opening move you use to soften up an enemy before you switch to your main mode of attack. A wizard would keep a gun for situations where their spells can't help them, or to use alongside some spell that enchants their shot. Imagine if most ranged attacks spells were not direct, but instead were charged into your gun and then fired that way, meaning that you could have extremely high damage magical attacks that are limited by the fact that they require a slow to reload firearm to function on top of the opportunity cost of the spell itself. Personally I want to see martial fighting styles based around gun weapons like >>98313890, designed to stab deep into the enemy and then pull the trigger to blast them point blank.
>>98312708depends heavily on aesthetic. If you're gothic/victorian or later then yes. If you go for a specifically clockwork inspired high-fantasy then also yes. If you're standard sword and sorcery then no. No Timmy I don't care if you call it musket or blunderbuss, answer is still no, now pick up the crossbow and be quiet. And no, you can't be a warforged artificer either you fucking retard.
>>98312708Largest reason people think firearms don't belong is because, firstly, they believe D&D is a historically accurate simulation of the way actual medieval combat, weaponry, and technology, and then secondly, because they didn't read their DMG and see that guns have been there since day 1.
It depends.
>>98313794The "why a historical/mythological guy is a girl servant" explanations in Fate can get pretty wild.Artoria - Always female, but secretly concealed her gender in order to be a king.Altera (Atilla the Hun) - An alien that just assumed a traditionally male role of tribal leader so that she could collect wives for political purposes such as forging alliances.Francis Drake - Referred to as a man by her sailing crew. Also, possibly secretly Queen Elizabeth.Miyamoto Musashi - From a different dimension, while the Musashi in our dimension was a guy.Merlin - Same as Musashi, except that you can also summon the Male Merlin from our dimension as a separate servant.Jacques de Molay - Same as Merlin.Leonardo Da Vinci - A genius can be whatever they want to be, so she modeled herself after the Mona Lisa.Oda Nobunaga - A demonic entity that is composed of dozens of incarnations, including both male and female ones, and just happens to have one of her female incarnations summoned.Orion - Is summoned as a teddy bear, with Artemis instead making up the main body of the servant.Katsushika Hokusai - Similar to Orion, except the artist is summoned as a small octopus, while the main body is that of his daughter, Oui.Caenis - A greek hero who was originally a woman that wished to be changed into a man. And became a woman again as a servant because why not.Dobrynya Nikitich - You actually summon his wife, Nastasia Mikulishna, who forcibly exchanged places with him.Hephaestion- His younger sister, who acted as his body double in life.Paul Bunyan - A servant made out of udon dough that comes from a joke universe, and is female because her creator is a psychotic lesbian.Van Gogh - Actually the greek nymph Clytie, who has been corrupted by Cthulu-esque Outer Gods but brought to a rough semblance of usable sanity by being made up of about 5% Van Gogh.Jaguar Man - Is actually a tiger. And a woman. And that's the least insane thing about the character.
>>98312708So long as there is a reason why guns wouldn't simply make all other fighting styles obsolete.
Regular guns are fine. Magic guns and ammunition are cringe.
>>98314323>designed to stab deep into the enemy and then pull the trigger to blast them point blank.Okay Squall
>>98314672>Artoria - Always female, but secretly concealed her gender in order to be a king.Didn't she have a magical dick when fucking Guinevre?>>98314871Why would they be more cringe than any other magical weapon?
>>98314943>Why would they be more cringe than any other magical weapon?gun bad
>>98314943They wouldn't. All magical weapons are cringe.
>>98314871Murlynd is older than than most living D&D players these days and he's a fucking wizard cowboy with two wand gun
>>98314871Magic guns are neat when the are relics that are keys to towers or important places. Cursed guns can be cool. I've been watching Dead Man's Gun and that has been entertaining when the plot is about a character succumbing to his or her greed or hubris instead of guns are bad.
>>98312708I really only care about specific types of firearms, so if you want a revolver or a lever action rifle you got it. I don't care what the tech level of the setting we were playing was, I'll find a way even if it's just a "wizard did it" kind of event. I think revolvers are the coolest shit, having six shots and then having to duck to reload before getting back into the fight is my fantasy. The Last Word from Destiny is peak fiction.
>>98314871>Magic guns and ammunition are cringe.You're cringe!
>>98315409I always liked how you could feel Gene's pain and hesitation every time he had to use his caster. Even the most common, regular shells were stupidly expensive, and that's with a ridiculous discount he got from having a weapons dealer be gay for him. Each shot was months of hard, life-risking work.Ironically, when he got his hands on hyper-rare shells that literally drained his life, he was put into situations where he barely hesitated at all.
>>98312742>Very simple firearms existed during the Middle Ages, so they wouldn't be out of place.if its a simple hand cannon, then its not really a problemlarge bombards and petards are already mostly accepted into fantasy without an issuethe problem is that some players will get angry when you dont treat a firearm as an instant-kill death ray that will end fantasy society and usher in modernityan actual period appropriate fireearm thats just an armor-piercing crossbow that has a small chance to blow up in your face will have them claiming it needs buffs
>>98312708If the setting feels like it should have guns of a certain type, then it should have guns of that type.If a setting feels like adding a gun would have you going "why the hell are there guns here?" then leave it out.
>>98312708It can be done tastefully, but rarely ever is.Warhammer Fantasy (before it was called "age of sigmar" or "the old world") tried to approach it from the angle that both magic and gunpowder technology are powerful but quite unstable, so you can hedge your bets one way, or the other, or stick to bows and crossbows.Image unrelated, I don't get many excuses to post it.
>>98312708Yes because guns are cool and I don't (yet) need a license just to imagine them.
>>98315605Just explain to them that guns were very shit until recently. Even today any hobo with a kitchen knife can overcome someone with a gun
>>98318386Guns haven't been shit since I think the 1870s
>>98318397There were some pretty cool guns in the 1870s.
>>98312708>Fantasy setting where knights are the meta and gun guys are support characters bouncing impotent lead off plate harnessShit.>Fantasy setting where dynamic Cowboy Action Shooting is the meta and being buffalo-huge is a support role mostly revolving around heavier yet less convenient gunneryCool.
>>98313794Arthur canonically has a dick and is therefore male
>>98320126Just that time.
>>98312708>Firearms in fantasy settings. Yay or nay?Yay.>Why yesAs long as they're muzzle loaders from handgonnes to matchlocks to cannons, they should be fineearly-mid renaissance is as far as i'd go for a fantasy setting before it loses its lustre and appeal
>>98315605>a small chance to blow up in your faceDidn't really happen in the field, guns were test-fired at higher (usually double) charge, and if they didn't break there they were safe to use at normal charge.It was an issue with cannons, where continuous fire and insufficient heat dissipation put additional stress on the metal.
>>98315286There's some old German folktale about a guy who makes a deal with the devil to always aim accurately. In this type of story, of course, the exception is one bullet that will eventually kill him, or something like that.That kind of magic gun I can get behind. Always accurate, or always self reloading, or cursed, etc.
>>98320415I forgot the name but there's an SMT move named after it in Nocturne. A demi-fiend signature move.
>>98312929You're not gonna make a character a Rennaisance artist, name them Leonardo da Vinci, say they're the real Leonardo da Vinci, and expect me to not call Leonardo da Vinci a him.Fuck Fate.
>>98320521meant for >>98320519
>>98320376>picrelAs if women have the skill to effectively wield firearms
>>98320519>>98320521Freischütz (The Freeshooter) ? Yeah, depending on the variant of the folk tale the fated bullet should kill either him, or his loved one.It's a popular reference appearing in a bunch of vidya.
The earliest depiction of a firearm is from China and is a demon trying to shoot the Buddha>>98314317Great pic
>>98320550Gun evens out the gender disparity more than any other weapon.The reason why they're still ill suited for military service is more about everything else that the service is about - following orders, hauling baggage, enduring harsh environments.
>>98314672I'll stick to SMT
>>98320550why does everything end up about women?
>>98320668Malding subnormals seething over women, blacks, gays, Jews, etc. get banned from everywhere else.
>>98320668There's a guy here who really hates women beyond just a meme or boys rule level
>>98314672>Paul Bunyan - A servant made out of udon dough that comes from a joke universe, and is female because her creator is a psychotic lesbian.Same creator of those funny idolmaster videos from a million years ago?
>>98312708THATS A MAN
>>98320690>subnormalsProjection alert!Projection alert!WHOAAAAAAA BUDDYYYYYYY
>>98320758guess I'm a homo now
>gm introduces firearms because we're traveling through a different continent in where powder was invented recently>new player enters the scene with a gunslinger type character>4 levels later gm says firearms are no more that it clashes with his vision of the gameIt wasn't even mechanics issue because we never seen anything broken on our part of the enemy's part, he just suddenly stopped liking muskets in his game one day and now he retconned everything to be just crossbows
>>98314672>Jacques de Molay - Same as Merlin.Wait I thought Jaques got turned into a woman by Shub-Niggurath.
>>98312708Yes, only if the setting does not support trad fantasy.Trad fantasy, while being able to support post-medieval tier swords and armours, needs to stay rooted in the more traditional ways of warfare, or otherwise engineer a complicated series of asspulls and autism as to why modern weapon types fit in with swords and spears.The spears can be made with modern-tier technology even, but the methods of war and living and culture have to keep that anachronistic medieval feel.Star Wars honestly does it very well.Alternatively, you can put guns into a fantasy setting and have an alternative design for fantasy, but then having swords and spears be viable for regulars becomes weird and detracting.Why use spear when gun work? Why bother with magic sword when you have magic shot? If you're struggling against monsters even with silver shooting muskets, how did your ancestors make it? It removes the tension and the appeal if your characters don't have use of guns anyway.
>>98321520>Yes, only if the setting does not support trad fantasy.So, anything past the early 1300s isn't trad, then? I take it you're not a fan of knights in full plate, since those didn't show up until the 1400s, after firearms were being fielded in Europe.
>>98321536NTA, but that appears to be explicitly acknowledged:>>98321520>while being able to support post-medieval tier swords and armours>the methods of war and living and culture have to keep that anachronistic medieval feel.
>>98321536I take it you're not a fan of reading?
