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>>98319742
*cast teleport hole to hellish dimension of rape by big buff demons with spiked BBCs underneath him*
What now?

>>98319752
You just... have the bbc rape pit on standby huh? Not just learned and in the spellbook but prepared? Every day? Im not judging but, damn...

>>98319745
Your life is pathetic and sad.

>>98319752
*parries it effortlessly with my blade*
What now?

why does it get smaller every time it's posted

>>98319742
This cinematic single-handedly injected Hope into every Martial player.

>characters barely make use of flanking, alternative tactics or trying to outsmart him
>they all mostly just engage him one at a time on his terms
>magic user tries to use magic within striking range of him

This pretty much exemplifies the martial fantasy, and how it requires everybody else around him to suck and be retarded so he can shine.

This guy is a Breton with racial 50% magic resistance and extraordinary magic affinity decked out head to toe in enchanted gear, everyone in Elder Scrolls uses magic, even peasants are capable of basic spells to conjure light or start fires because the fucking sun is a giant hole in the sky vomiting pure Magicka

>>98319752
I make my save.

>>98319852
>characters barely make use of flanking, alternative tactics or trying to outsmart him
they repeatedly try to flank and surround him, it doesn't work because he controls the space with his big fuckoff sword (like you do with a big fuckoff sword)
>they all mostly just engage him one at a time on his terms
they mostly try to surround and gang up on him
each of them also tries their own specialty (rogue tries to flank and backstab, nord tries to overwhelm with strength, mage tries to use magic) and he just outperforms all three
>magic user tries to use magic within striking range of him
she seems like a spellblade type so that's probably something she can normally do without getting punished, unfortunately for her she got stat checked and lost
>>98319863
everybody in this scene is probably wearing magical gear and capable of basic magic
everybody in this scene is also show relying primarily on hitting people with bladed weapons as their preferred method of turning people into ghosts

>>98319792
>the person who makes his games how he wants is pathetic and sad
>not the retarded /v/-crossposter bitching about or trying to get an own on other people who have nothing to do with his personal games

K

>>98319742
Breton Spellsword master race baby

>>98319742
To be honest, the other three are incompetent.
This guy is surely the first serious enemy they've faced.

>>98319784
You can never know when today you need to banish someone to the rape pit.
>>98319812
*cast disarmed*
>>98319883
With disadvantage!

>>98319752
Sorry, I won initiative so you die before you can cast.

>>98319742
>Fly
>Heat Metal
>Abrupt Jaunt on deck in case he tries shit like throwing roof tiles
You might take a while to die from the fire damage, but you're definitely going to die.
Also - magic is actually cooler than being an ape in a tin can onesie.

>>98319792
Nah, that's (You).

>>98319742
But you posted a spellsword???

>>98319742
That dude is a magic knight

>>98320067
>tin can onesie
I didn't realize onesies were put together with numerous individual parts; I thought the idea of a onesie is being one article you can just slip over yourself.

>>98319752
Sorry, there's no teleporting in my setting. Try again.

>>98320067
>Also - magic is actually cooler than being an ape in a tin can onesie.

Being a weak faggot who relies on powerful from other-worldly beings is cuckery. It takes a true alpha chad who relies on his skill, wits, and muscle alone that is cool. This is why you fail.

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>>98320165

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>>98319742
>martial meme is posted
>/tg/ descends instantly into a flame war

It makes me realize with each passing day that people project their insecurities in life onto the classes and playstyles they choose in RPG's. And it's always embarrassingly hilarious when it manifests on this board.

>>98320182
Big words from a steamed ham.

>>98320195
It's not really a spelling mistake, is it? He literally referred to an entire conceptual entity incorrectly.

>>98319742
What is this even from? I see it posted all the time but it's so generic looking I can't make heads or tails of it.

Besides, it seems to be all martials. Everybody rushes the big guy right away.

>>98320203
/tg/ was good when we had enough uniformity of background that we all hated martials. The gym-going secondaries have ruined the hobby.

>>98320203
>[post] is posted
>/tg/ descends instantly into a flame war
sir this is the getting into pointless arguments website

>>98320208
I couldn't be bothered to photoshop "excessive artistic license" into the meme image.

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>>98320205
Big words from someone in ranged distance.

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>>98320216
No it isn't.

>>98320214
>The gym-going secondaries have ruined the hobby
You are a 40 year old stereotype

>>98320225
>Abrupt Jaunt on deck in case he tries shit like throwing roof tiles

>>98320214
It's both sad and funny how things have gone from trying to appeal to nerds to trying to appeal to washed-up jocks who are mad that the nerds they went to high school got rich and they're just Al Bundy but way more of a failure.

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>>98320214
>/tg/ was good when we had enough uniformity of background that we all hated martials
Stop gaslighting, Monte.

>>98320226
i disagree. kill yourself.

>>98319742
>SOMEDAY LOVE WILL FIND YOU

>>98320212
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaI-EOVpDvo

>>98320237
What's sad is that you're projecting desire to play a class, and engaging in swordplay, a traditionally nerd hobby (IE, fencing, HEMA, medieval history) somehow with the people who bullied you in middle school. Furthermore, you project some Al Bundy stereotype onto them, when he was married, had kids, and a house, which is woefully more than you've likely accomplished, yet pretend like you're some rich silicon valley tech bro, who is assuredly NOT playing Dungeons and Dragons, unless it's on a podcast to make money off the likes of people like you.

Truly a puzzling, bizarre, sad state of affairs, for sure.

>>98320237
This post reads like a gamefaqs forum post from 2005 bitching about sports games on the PS2.

>>98320237
The nerd market is saturated, so they had to work on sopping up retard money.

>>98320233
>cocks lever action, follows up with secondary attack

>>98320267
Lever actions would come under Rifle, Hunting which can't attack multiple times per turn. However gunslingers are actually cool and I have no quarrel with them.

>>98320067
>>98320233
you probably have a good int score but you only have so many of those jaunts per day. based on the spells used, you're at minimum level 6.
based on the clip the knight guy definitely outlevels you, so he has at least two attacks a round and a LOT more hit points than you.
let's say you have +4 int mod, you get to dodge four throws for free. do you think you can kill him via heat metal in two rounds before that minimum +7/+2 BAB starts making your d4 hit die start feeling inadequate?

>>98320252
>>98320255
How's business at the shoe store?

>>98320290
How much damage can a roof tile do? What, let's be generous and say it's 1d4+str. Even if he's superhumanly strong a wizard can soak a couple of those hits. Or (if it looks like it's especially troublesome) use cover. Or more defensive spells (there's no shortage of options). Or pour on more offense, Grease the fucker off the roof while he's burning. Hell, disaster scenario the caster can just leave.
These arguments were won before most of the posters here were born. Linear fighters, quadratic wizards. I don't make the rules.

>>98320203
So what do you think about the idea of being able to make your games however you want?

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>martials think they should be able to effortlessly compete with stuff like this by just swinging a sword well because uhhh....I'm supposed to be the main character!

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>>98320361
>jumps slightly higher than you
>stabs you with my spear
Checkmate fag

>>98320309
>How much damage can a roof tile do?
1d4+str seems accurate based on the rules for improvised weapons, the ones in the video are pretty big and bricks are stated to be 1d4+str which i would say is comparable.
it's not much but with 6d4 hd and possibly a negative con modifier; (1d4+str)*2/round is nothing to sneeze at, even at a -4 to hit (no proficiency with improvised weapons)
this is of course assuming he doesn't have a proper throwing weapon tucked in a pouch or something that could offset the accuracy/range issues of improvised weapons.
checking the math though heat metal isn't even a very good option. 8d4 damage, magic armor (which a high level fighter probably has) gets a saving throw, you have to stay within close range, and it only lasts seven rounds (two of which do fuck all), and it isn't even on the wizard spell list to boot. you'd be better served starting with grease, hoping he fails his save, and watching him tumble to the ground.

>>98320379
I must confess, I must have mixed up Heat Metal and one of the other usual suspects for shutting down a martial. God knows there's enough of them.

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>>98320361
Well if we're playing with that scale of magic, we should be playing with an equal scale of martial faggery.

>>98320309
>>98320379
to be clear i'm not pretending that linear fighters/quadratic wizards isn't a real thing, i'm just saying that this particular scenario wouldn't go quite so in favor of the wizard assuming you fight like you previously described.

>>98320393
i just assumed you got it from some feat or something. not a huge deal. besides, real ones know that druid was the most unashamedly busted class in 3.5e, which i assume is what we're working off of based on the abrupt jaunt alternate class feature

>>98320393
Sure, in your little safe-space game that has been anti-martial since 3rd edition. Now go try using Heat Metal in Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay and then accidentally miscast and turn half your body into a chaos-warped mutant.

>>98320395
Granted, you'd need to put more thought into it, especially if you're going uphill in terms of relative level. Still, Wind Wall and Mirror Image would make the throwing game untenable for the fighter, and then you just nova the rest of your spells trying to overwhelm him and/or shove him off the roof (which looks high enough to do a big chunk of damage even if he can walk it off).
As strategies go "methhead vs police helicopter" is a pretty good place to be.

>>98320405
Why don't we just play Traveller and all have fun?

>>98320292
Did you yell "BAZINGA" out loud after you hit post?

>>98320407
>As strategies go "methhead vs police helicopter" is a pretty good place to be.
the original premise including heat metal does limit your ability to outmaneuver him somewhat
that said probably nothing will ever beat just flying so high above your target that they don't even know you're there and using, like, major creation to drop 1400 pounds of osmium (1 cubic foot) onto them

>>98320067
>Fly
Bow
>Heat Metal
Meat points
>Abrupt jaunt
Only 10 feet, literally a non factor

>>98320455
Now we're talking. Thinking about it, just cast Heat Building (aka arson) and kite him until the roof collapses with him on it. GG.
>>98320480
Abrupt jaunt makes attacks auto miss.

>>98320500
>Abrupt jaunt makes attacks auto miss.
he gets more attacks than you get abrupt jaunts

>>98320455
>major creation to drop 1400 pounds of osmium (1 cubic foot) onto them
Would require a knowledge nature check to know what Osmium is, and then, assuming it's "dropped" it would be considered travelling, not an attack, so virtually anyone would be able to dodge out of the way of that by just taking a five foot step.

>>98320361
>casters think every TTRPG gives them this level of magic
>casters think that even in systems with this level of magic, it isn't reserved for end-game characters with over 300 hours invested at this point

>>98319742
Traditional games? You know that video games have their own board?

>>98320849
>Would require a knowledge nature check to know what Osmium is
or just find an expert and ask "what's the heaviest metal?"
>virtually anyone would be able to dodge out of the way of that by just taking a five foot step.
hence the part about getting high enough that they don't realize you're there
then you just have to bank on them not moving for ten minutes (which is doable if they're, like, asleep in their bed or something) but i imagine that 1400 pounds of osmium would cause them some kind of problem even if it just lands next to them

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>>98319852
This is why I hate these gay ass anime/capeshit coordinated dance scenes. There's no tension, there's no intelligence. It's just a professional wrestling match for retards. They wield giant weapons that don't do shit and can be stopped by a person 2 feet shorter and 150 pounds lighter with no effort. They wear platemail that's pointless since they'll never be hit anyways. They may as well be wuxia fighting wearing nothing but kimonos and dancing around with knives jumping off the walls and running across water. There's no weight behind any of their movements. It's the most generic and least interesting media fight imaginable that we've seen hundreds of times at this point.

>>98320004
>With disadvantage!
*ahem* Advantage. Playing a Breton, here.

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That reminds me, the thing that really sucks about wizards is that they're glass cannons which means that a wizard duel is just whoever can get their big spell off first and 1-shot nuke the other guy. That really sucks.

There was some minigame with the LotRs miniatures where Gandalf and Saruman had push and crush attacks, fighting around the palantir. Based on that one fight scene. Seemed pretty neat.

Wish there could be a back and forth between casters but it just doesn't happen.

>>98319742
>characters wait their turn to attack in careful choreography
>author's self insert is so cool he can just grab the opponent, his weapon mid swing, and even just break a length of wood in half without flinching
>animation starts off strong, showing full movements
>but resorts to action-only jumping around cuts including close-ups despite this being a cheap 3D render where an artist doesn't have to draw every frame nor does an actor need to do several takes
>most egregious during the big moment when magic appears
>worse still transforms to animation style where cause-and-effect is reduced to 2 frames of cause, everything else a consequence of action
I had to rewind to understand not only that a sword was knocking her hand away but that it was his sword that was now somehow upturned from when we last saw it. Going frame-by-frame I then learned she was actually emoting and following her own hand with her gaze... but I cannot see why he hand exploded, let alone why it did nothing to him.

I have to say this would fit right into a Marvelslop.

I guess at least it's not something shit like this >>98320361 which is genuinely the height of that medium's ability.

>>98320943
>They wield giant weapons that don't do shit
Now now, he absolutely smashed that rogue's letter opener in the first swing... oh wait it was perfectly fine, and the rogue's wrist wasn't shattered either.
Did you like the parts where he used his pommel to lightly tap the barbarian in the face and the rogue in the thigh?

>>98321177
>a wizard duel is just whoever can get their big spell off first and 1-shot nuke the other guy. That really sucks.
Actually a glass cannon fight would be about casting your "weakest" kill spell because it likely has the shortest cast time and unless you both are magic tanks (which means you're not glass cannons) you'll win every time.

But anyway, I completely agree. Wizards being howitzers helps tension less than bringing a machinegun to a mexican standoff.

>>98319742
What game?

>>98319745
Based.

>>98320500
>Abrupt jaunt makes attacks auto miss.
You say that like there's only going to be one attack that turn.

>>98320455
What spellcaster would have the Spot modifier needed to know where to drop it? How does he know what osmium is?

>>98320500
>and kite him until the roof collapses with him on it.
He walks out of the fire due to having too many meat points.

>>98320913
So your scenario, that you have to make more convenient and complex with every post (I thought the point was to show how easy it is for a spellcaster?), is to...attack the other guy in his sleep. Literally anyone can do that and they don't need magic, there's these crazy things called "weapons."

>>98319742
>hey look tg I found a video game trailer isnt this tg!
A thread died for this btw.

>>98321528
You designate a target in a square for a full attack. If the target isn't there, all parts of the full attack miss.

>>98321534
We've reached the "nuh-uh" phase of the thread.

>>98321568
look me in the eye and tell me that thread was of equal or greater worth, and I will call you a liar

>>98320913
>which is doable if they're, like, asleep in their bed or something
Who wins?
Flying high and summoning 1400 pounds of osmium
OR
Walking up slowly with a pointy piece of iron?

>>98321189
>guess at least it's not something shit like this >>98320361 # which is genuinely the height of that medium's ability
Animetoids are forever malding that all of the best possible 2D fight scenes were already done by westerners in Samurai Jack.

>>98319742
>bro posts a mage knight to prove his point
Anyway, ESO is so fucking lame.

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>>98319742
I cast KNEEL

>>98320913
That requires such ridiculous before-hand knowledge, virtually any class would be able to MacGyver an answer from that....A Fighter would just use a Ballista against a sleeping opponent he can see in plain sight and knows the location of, open-air enough that he would be able to be struck by something in flight.

It's just such an awkward thing to handwave.

>>98319852
As opposed to the "caster fantasy", where the caster always has the correct spell ready before-hand with all foreknowledge known and never being surprised, ambushed, or beaten in initiative?

You realize you're making a really stupid fucking nigger-dumb argument, right?

>>98322066
In 1st and 2nd edition AD&D, Ki was basically non-magical. Antimagic had zero effect against it, so technically, Wuxia is martial.

At my table I simply don't allow martials at character creation at all.
Sorry but I don't want to try to square the circle in making encounters where the dude that can maybe hit things well in melee and the teleporting nuke demigod can work together.

What challenges an even remotely optimized (and by that I mean the player took all of 2 minutes to look over their choices) wizard will paste even a competently built fighter thrice over.

Counterpoint what would challenge the fighter is quite literally a non-issue to the caster

>>98320943
Unironically better than realismslop. And for the record, your pro wrestling comparison isn't the own you think it is. Pro wrestling and Tokusatsu are great, and you're a gay little faggot if you think otherwise.

>>98321605
Tell me you've never played without telling me. You can designate different targets for different attack rolls.

>>98321612
Implying it was ever anything else?

>>98319742
That's a half-elf druid in disguise btw

>>98320004
>*cast disarmed*
I cast fist

>>98319742
this fucking cutscene is stupid
not only because the ingame combat is nothing like this
but also because it gave the boringfags something to masturbate publicly with with no other merits
yeah, some roleplaying engines let you emulate this
yes, if they're equally generous to technical and magic fags you still don't stand a chance

>>98320182
This sounds so fucking gay, dude. Magic is for Chads who strive towards progress.

>>98323335
>it gave the boringfags something to masturbate publicly with
Which is funny because that's a Bosmer druid cosplaying as a knight as a part of some evil scheme or something along those lines, which is something I feel like the type that posts said scene don't really like

>>98320393
in 5e it does give the dude disadvantage on basically everything if he doesn't drop the heated object which is probably where you got mixed up

>>98321533
he asked an expert what the heaviest metal is and used vision of the omniscient eye or some magic item or some shit to trivialize the spot check. he's a wizard.
>>98321542
pretty sure pointing out the weakness of "you gotta wait for the casting time" and then coming up with an example of how to counteract that is the opposite of making it more convenient
>>98321702
in the thought experiment you are a wizard who wants to kill your target without ever being at risk yourself so the 1400 pounds of osmium wins
>>98322553
>That requires such ridiculous before-hand knowledge
wizard is the preparing ahead of time class
>virtually any class would be able to MacGyver an answer from that
the point of the exercise wasn't "only wizards can do this" it was "what's a better way for a wizard to kill a martial than heat metal without being in danger"
scry and die tactics, rocket tag, there's a reason this shit is commonplace in 3.5e discussions

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>>98320203

>>98323153
Yes, but you designate them all at the start.

>>98320249
Thanks boss.

>martials need to have magical items to even stand a chance against magic GODs
Pathetic

>>98320361
Since we're talking anime, Saitama is a martial, and he can just jump at this guy and punch him once.
Now what?

>>98322573
This has always been my approach. ki = muscle wizard. you get less of it but it's fueled by your body.

what is magic, anyway? i think when most people talk about it, they mean spells. most classes in most fantasy games have "magic" through supernatural shit, unless its specifically made to be otherwise.

>>98323683
Martials are also magical.
They just use magic in a simple way to hone their martial skills and raw stats.

>>98323646
bugs bunny neg diffs

>>98319745
TRVTH NUKE

>>98323370
Wizards are literally people who rely on fictional make-believe to solve their problems, what the fuck are you talking about retard?

>>98322751
I really like that no one took this obvious bait. /tg/ is maturing.

>>98323703
>Martials are also magical.
No, they're superhuman

>>98323703
4e tried that and everyone hated it.

>>98323472
>the point of the exercise wasn't "only wizards can do this" it was "what's a better way for a wizard to kill a martial than heat metal without being in danger"
Forcecage?

>scry and die tactics, rocket tag, there's a reason this shit is commonplace in 3.5e discussions
Theorycrafting is always gonna be a thing in every setting. In actual play though, it's irrelevant, since the DM can ban whatever he wants to fit his setting and style, the same way Monte Cook "banned" sword of sharpness in his "setting" (3E) because he didn't like how much power it gave to martials.

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>>98323551
No, you don't actually. If you can make more than one attack you can move between attacks just fine, see? Also, be careful with terms like "full attack," that's a 3.5 thing, and Abrupt Jaunt is 5e, you have to pick just one for the basis of the argument. And Jaunt has dibs since it was mentioned first, so 5e rules for how attacking works are what are applicable here.

>>98323683
> most classes in most fantasy games have "magic" through supernatural shit, unless its specifically made to be otherwise.
That's the thing though, Ki wasn't supernatural either. It was considered "life force", that could be controlled and manifested, like wind, or fire, or pressure. Adamantine also used to be mundane, same with alchemy. But as of 5E, all of that shit is considered "magical", because the autist they have over at Wizards of the Coast believes that anything different from our real world is inherently magical, for some reason. As if a completely different universe might not have different forms of chemistry, or raw materials. It's why I completely abandoned 5th edition, along with the over-simplification and elimination of race disadvantages.

Although I largely don't even play D&D at all anymore.

>>98323472
>he asked
>he also cast
>well the example is ok because
More are more nonsense, how complex and specific does this scenario have to get before even your dumbass realizes it's no longer about an easy win?

>>98320393
>God knows there's enough of them.
Then why can no one here come up with one?

>>98324000
>Forcecage?
At best delays the fight for an hour, casterfags think averting an encounter is the same as beating it.

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>>98323996
>and everyone hated it
No, Weaboo-no-Jutsu magic was tried, and everyone hated THAT.

What 4E tried was turning D&D into a card based board game, and people rightfully rejected that shit.

>>98324041
Abrupt Jaunt is definitely 3.5e because that's the last edition I played a wizard in, and he had Abrupt Jaunt (plus Master Specialist in Conjuration)

>>98324047
I come from 3.pf actually, a lot of classes, martials included, have abilities marked with (Su) for Supernatural, which designates them as being magic in some way, and interacts with antimagic too iirc.

Obviously though, the casters have way more (Su) features than the martials.

>>98323996
TRUE: 4e tried that
TRUE: everyone hated 4e
FALSE: everyone hated 4e because it tried that

>>98324041
>>98324170
You're both wrong, Jaunt is 3.5, so those rules about attacking and such are what apply, but Jaunt is movement, and doesn't actually say it doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity, and you don't need to specify your full attack targets ahead of time. This is so you can switch targets in the middle of a full attack, if you unexpectedly kill the first one and not waste the rest of your action. So, by using Jaunt, you're giving them a free shot at you via AOO, depending on how your DM interprets Stand Still it might prevent the Jaunt to begin with, if the fighter has Quick Draw (and please, do try to argue how a FIGHTER wouldn't have a feat, it'll be funny) he can swap to a ranged weapon as a free action and still get you, or if he has a weapon with Reach he can hit you anyway, because you can take a 5ft step during a full attack, and Reach means 10 feet isn't enough.

>>98319742
Super-strength, which is necessary for the feats demonstrated in the video clip, is also a type of magic.

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>>98320943
>They wield giant weapons that don't do shit and can be stopped by a person 2 feet shorter and 150 pounds lighter with no effort.

>>98324492
>is also a type of strength
Nope. Different universe, different physics. Also, none of the people in that clip are human, so they have different physiologies.

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>>98320943
You sound like a faggot, and if you think your stupid little gif is an indication of a "Real" fight, you're utterly retarded, and need to go away. LARPers wearing expensive gear are not an example of "real" fighting skill, or a "real fight".

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>>98323988
And that's different from "magic"

>>98324680
Uh, yes, Rajesh. I know English is your second language, but try to keep up.

>Superhuman - exceeding normal human power, size, or capability

>>98324000
forcecage is useful but doesnt really solve the killing part of the equation and anything that ups our theoretical wizard's level (like a seventh level spell slot) also bumps up our theoretical fighter's level (since he's supposed to be a higher level than the wizard)
a (minimum) 14th level fighter may well carry something on his person specifically for dealing with the potential of getting forcecaged, it's something i would be concerned about at that level as a martial
BUT i dont want to lean too heavily into "well the fighter could just carry around magic items"
BUT ALSO it's really hard to imagine getting to level 14 as a fighter and NOT carrying around magic items
>>98324049
you can just say you hate theorycrafting bro