>77 Miniatures>Grimdark Future Core Rules>Quickstart Guide in 6 languages: EN, FR, DE, ES, PL, IT>14-piece Cardstock Terrain Set>70 Tokens>Paper Battlemat (45 x 35in)>20 Dice>220.00 $And this is from a reseller: $2.86 per miniature (without even considering that some of them are large models and heroes). On top of that, you get a ton of extras, including a battle mat and dice.This is the best starter set I've ever seen.The other boxes are priced along the same lines.Will OPR become a real headache for GW?Will GW lower their prices?Will people start migrating to OPR?
Only GW can destroy Warhammer.The question is how much it will take and for how long until it is done.No wowkiller ever killed wow. Same with halokillers.It is the same for warhammer.
>Is wargames' market going through a revolution?No.>Will OPR become a real headache for GW?No.>Will GW lower their prices?No.>Will people start migrating to OPR?No.
>>98326219The rules for OPR are so simplified that they lose all interest.
>>98326226Betteridge's law in action.
>>98326229There are the avances rules.
>>98326219>77 figures for $220Two bags of Victrix vikings is 120 for $120.This is ass value for money.
>>98326219It's a good set, but I would not overstate it. I backed the campaign, and they delivered the product well within the time, and it's generally good quality. But: it's not-necron Vs space lizard men. Those are hardly fan favourite factions. I bought the set because I like the idea of having physical OPR miniatures in the stores, but I really do not see this set in particular becoming a bestseller, due to the factions included being too niche.And also, it's one piece miniatures, already glued to the bases (only the big ones come with a separate base) - that also is a turn off compared to GW (and pretty much all other companies with plastic miniatures).And last - it remains to be seen what price they will charge for individual units. Given the monopose and also repeat of poses within a unit, it should be quite cheap. But we have to see.All in all, I'm happy with that set, they delivered what they promised. If it has staying power in the lgs shelves.. idk.
>>98326289The day Victrix does fantasy or sci-fi minis, this might become interesting. Before that, it's just a historical snorefest.
lol, lmao. No.
>>98326304Necrons are one of the most played factions,,,
>>98326328Because they were the "throwaway" faction from indomitus and all the following magazine subscriptions and starter sets. And this certainly won't lead to people buying off-brand necrons now if they already got a necron army.
>>98326219>Will OPR become a real headache for GW?No. Nothing that tries to copy warhammer will beat warhammer.Because then, people will just play warhammer, instead of playing a game for the same vibes but with more niche players and materials.Also, odds are the 'changed so it doesn't look like we copied it' lore and narrative behind it will probably suck. Imagine trying to make a serious, globally recognized ttwg off of space king, unironically.It's why despite being much newer, and having different settings, you actually hear about T28 or TC or SW in other communities and hobby stores, and not OPR.>Will GW lower their prices?No. Aside from inflation being a thing, they've established they can charge that much for that quality of model, and a corporate is even less likely to give up potential profits than a government is to lower taxes.>Will people start migrating to OPR?Lol no. OPR is, for all its good intentions, a mass of game clones that try to mimic the vibe and feel and setting of established IP's.And when given the option between playing a game they want to play, or playing a game that's not quite the game they want to play, with a smaller player base and not really anything much to offer except shorter rules, most will go with the original game. Fact is, they already know the rules enough, or will find a game where the other guy doesn't mind that they're a bit hazy, as opposed to learning new rules for a slop version of the game they're already playing.
>>98326219>Will OPR become a real headache for GW?no. its not fun after 1 or 2 times. every wannabe game designer uses it as a base for their shitty "Totally not 40k, but just as grim dark BUT with my OC as the center" setting.>Will GW lower their prices?LMAO>Will people start migrating to OPR?nope. at most you'll get some people like me who are curious or drawn in my some neat models like Seraphon in spaaaaaaace. but once you see how toxic the community is, you bounce.
>>98326219I'm not sure it's even as good as Mantic's starter sets. Granted some people whine about their minis but I can barely even see the ones you're shilling.
>>98326449The minis are okay. It's not hard plastic tho. Quite good board game quality miniatures, but that's it.
>>98326219OPR is a very boring ruleset that learned most of the wrong lessons from 40k imo.
>Trench Crusade, the first game non-GW game I've heard of, is the GW killer>OPR, the second non-GW game I've heard of, is the GW killerGW are a FTSE100 company. Are you all retarded.
>>98326474Trench crusade is extra funny since they're one incident in the south china sea away from just not existing.
>>98326487articulate please
>>98326489Computer chips are made in Taiwan, trench crusade leans heavily on 3d printing, not physical models. That is changing slowly, but there are only very few plastic trench crusade minis available on the market.
>>98326487>one incident in a china sea away from not existingAren't we all?
>>98326487GW is also fucked they get their books printed in China now and that markup makes them bookoo bucks
>>98326532>trench crusade leans heavily on 3d printing, not physical modelsThey have hard plastic kits now, are expanding that range, and aren't producing 3d .stl's anymore. At least know a little about what you're talking about before trying to talk about it.
>>98326532>Computer chips are made in TaiwanYou see you have to feed chips to every 3d printer to keep them alive. Are you going to also explain how every bit of resin needs so magical element that's only found in one place?
>>98326474I remember people saying Warmachine and Rezolution were going to kill 40K back in the 2000's.
>>98326474People need to stop their retarded tribalism over plastic toy soldiers, and they also need to realise that the wargaming market has grown to a size that is big enough to sustain several companies alongside GW, with no issues whatsoever. No new game will outright kill GW/40k, and that doesn't need to happen for that game to become a success in sales.
>>98326487It Taiwan is getting chinked, the loss of chips to print trench crusade miniatures is probably the least problem the entire western world would face then.
>>98326487>>98326713warhammer is not about having funit is about giving all your money to games workshop
>>98326931No, it's about having fun. You don't even need to give GW your money, there are loads of models you can get second-hand. You don't even need to play the current rulesets if you don't want to.
>>98326219>Will OPR become a real headache for GW?No>Will GW lower their prices?No>Will people start migrating to OPR?Not anymore than they are currently
>>98326662WMH was strong competition for GW in North America in the aftermath of FASA's collapse, but they shot themselves in the foot and lost to Flames and some skirmishslop.
>>98326219No, no, no, no, and no.OPR is uniquely worse than the other "40k killers" in that its only audience are 40k players who are disillusioned with James *and* not suffering from enough battered wife syndrome to stay anyway. Almost by definition, anyone buying OPR stuff has already bought 40k stuff, and ex-40k players are always a hairs breadth away from running back to 40k because James waved a theoretical rules improvement (note, very very theoretical) or new space marine under their nose.Other games can have their own audiences that aren't just refugees. Not OPR.
>>98326305>The day Victrix does fantasyThe day Victrix and Perry release Fantasy dwarf (especially if NOT in a realistic LOTR style), is the day I drown in plastic miniatures
I like the miniatures, but i dont think OPR, or this box set in particular, is a serious threat to GW. >>98326470>>98326427This is true. The rules are kinda bland, but you can use the miniatures for pretty much everything else too. I've used them Stargrave.
>>98326219Nobody is going to buy this shit. Those boxes will be collecting dust for years.
>>98327295Nice timing
>>98327313You poor sap
>>98326219What currency is this even? Canadian? That starter set costs 112€ here.
>>98327327I think those are dollarydoos. I can go find it for $110 USD, and MSRP is $120 USD
>>98327225>>98326289>>98326305A while back victrixlimited did a poll and fantasy/sci-fi were available choices.>system thinks it is spam because Facebook linkFair enough.I’m unsure what came of the results as I’m on phone and internet is slow on other sites than here.I will admit as much as I prefer fantasy and sci-fi I think it is weird of victrix to even think of fantasy or sci-fi plastic as historicals are their bread and butter. Maybe they could put out some good historical oriental models from india to imperial dynasty age China to feudal japan etc.But I think they saw what wargames Atlantic is doing and are considering branching out their offers. I have a feeling they might mimic the death fields models by keeping things simple and doing the historical army in space thing for warhammer 40k guard fanboy money.
>>98327327that's misleading, "starter set" is not what op posted, you should look for "battle box"
>>98327322
>>98326226And those are all good things.
>>98326961>FASA's collapseIs that why that box could get away with being called "mech warrior"?>>98327022Come to think of it, a lot of 40k refugees in BattleTech seem to show up, shitpost about Warhammer, and then disappear after a few weeks. Do they really just run back to James?
>>98326931I will only give GW money if it results in me having fun.
>>983266626th-7th edition was that bad an era, at least for compfags which are a greater % of the playerbase than the yappers online will have you believe.
>>98327452Ah, thank you for that bit of info. You are right. The OP box is the "master" box, not the "starter" - OPs box incudes 16 more miniatures (77 vs 51). Seems to be not that great of a deal desu.
>>98327630includes:>77 Miniatures>Grimdark Future Core Rules>Quickstart Guide in 6 languages: EN, FR, DE, ES, PL, IT>14-piece Cardstock Terrain Set>70 Tokens>Paper Battlemat (45 x 35in)>20 Dicegood price anon
>>98327952I've definitely considered it. If it was that same price point for something I was more interested in playing (not necrons lol). I would buy it.
>>98327546Anecdotally per grogs, BT seems to have been the most popular SF wargame in LGS in the 80s and 90s in North America. That collapse really opened the door to 40k. I think you would need a similar fall for GW to be seriously challenged.
>>98326219its a good price but the real problem is its a board game not a hobby game>77 MiniaturesCool. Hard plastic so not HIPS, all on base single mini. board game. PVCAnd, since its not sprues, its just tons of repetition in the minis. most look absolutely identical, even in pose. which is boring on the table top.i like the geckos with shields tho, thats a cool design.
>>98328164yes, there is some repetition
>>98328551
>>98326219>Will people start migrating to OPR?If they do I imagine the vast majority of players will be using it as an alternate ruleset to play 40k with, I think sometimes people who get really into the weeds about wargame mechanics and systems forget that James isn't selling a tabletop miniatures game, they're selling the setting of Warhammer and the fantasy of using cool models to play out the battles in that cool sci-fi universe you like. Wargames with better rules than 40k are many, varied, and have been around for a very long time but hardly anybody is playing 40k for the rules, they're playing it because they think Space Marines/Orks/Eldar/etc. are fucking sick and that kind of attachment to something is extremely difficult to shift.
>>98326225>No wowkiller ever killed wow. Same with halokillers.Cod killed halo and other MMOs did kill WoW eventually which is what forced them to split the game in two to keep in the market.
>>98326219I've ditched warhammer for OPR and other indie games like Space Weirdos. But I am certainly in the minority. I just play with my wife and brother. Warhammer isn't going anywhere soon. However they are clearly going the way of Star Wars. Their TV shows etc are becoming increasingly woke. In 10 years they'll probably have FUCKED their brand just like Star Wars did.
>>98328164I think the repetition are more of a problem in skirmish and loose formation games.But in rank and flank games its probably a non issue. I'd actually say that it presents some benefit too, in that case.I wonder if there's going to be a similar box for their regimented game.
imma be real, i dont care for the minis and "official" stuff for opr i hope they do get enough money to keep functioning but i mostly want easier systems for 40k/old world so i can try and play a couple games with my dad/nephews/friends without overwhelming them
>>98328551>>98328554At least they are not trying to obscure the repeated poses by placing them in different angles on the pictures, so you can't recognize them at first glance.
>>98327952includes:>51 Miniatures>Grimdark Future Core Rules>Quickstart Guide in 6 languages: EN, FR, DE, ES, PL, IT>14-piece Cardstock Terrain Set>70 Tokens>Paper Battlemat (45 x 35in)>20 DiceThe Starter set includes literally the same stuff, just 16 less miniatures. For apparently almost 50% less money. Thats why i think the 77-mini-box is not that great of a deal, because it gives you only a little amount of minis more.
>>98326305victrix did release a fantasy helmet sprue, not sure if it's the testing the waters or not. If they released a bunch of fantasy option sprues to do with their crusader line, oh man, it's going to be glorious.
>>98326226This. Entry to the hobby is through Warhammer. After you have gotten in that way, then you and your group can explore other options. But for everyone who buys this box, they will already have spent thousands in Warhammer
>>98326219The new old world set coming has more mini's and is €190/$220 before discount. Why would I pay GW money for an Bootleg product?
>>98326219GW has unnecessarily increased the prices of their products so much in the last years, that the markt has reached a point where the technology has been cheapened enough for small and indy companies to produce the same plastic miniatures as GW at the same cost.I don't think they expected that result, but this would be great for the wargame market if we were not almost in the point where people cannot afford paying for plastic crack.
>>98330114This is comparing apples with oranges, similar to >>98326289Normal people do not work like that, calculating a purchase price down to how many miniatures they get per dollar. What use are Chaos Warriors or Fantasy Chinks when you want some sci-fi miniatures? What use are historical Vikings if i want some sci-fi stuff? If anything, compare it with Starter sets like Mantics Firefight, Starcraft or 40k, because those are the options that directly compete with it. Not some Fantasy games.
>>98326219yes.Removes the to wound roll, reeeeeeeee
>>98326219>Is wargames' market going through a revolution?No.>And this is from a reseller: $2.86 per miniature (without even considering that some of them are large models and heroes).You know what I have never, at any point, looked? Price per miniature. That's a thing no one cares about.> On top of that, you get a ton of extras, including a battle mat and dice.Oh. Dice. The thing I have ten fucking billion of? Dice are part of a complete product, but it's not a selling point.>Will OPR become a real headache for GW?No. Their product comes across as store brand warhammer. This is death.>Will GW lower their prices?No. Because any time GW has had competition in the past, prices did not come down. Off-brand Warhammer will not change that.>Will people start migrating to OPR?No, because if I'm already playing warhammer, why would I switch to off-brand warhammer?
>>98330205Ok, the Armageddon box set has 61 mini's and is €200/$230 with discount. People who start the hobby don't want sci-fi/fantasy mini's, they want Warhammer.
>>98326219OPR does not publish the rules for free and is not able to escape the version cycle (buffs and nerfs galore, game changing rapidly and players have a hard time keeping up).Played 20+ games by now since 2023, without carefully picked Advanced Rules and a lot of work on house-ruling stuff, OPR is extra boring.People start with the boring core rules and only complete noobs enjoy playing more than 2 games with them. And advanced rules are paid content that requires decisions and gaming and planning...It's a mess. But if you put the work in, it's not a bad game and you can really do interesting things on the table. Currently playing Ambush-heavy notcrons, very fun to deploy almost nothing at round 1, then surround enemy and smash them in rounds 2 and 3.Also tried playing notstealers with fast and longer charge upgrade - absolute destruction of the enemy in round 2 (nothing survives that charge by stealer lords unscathed).For being a cannibal design, they should be a lot more open and provide a lot more free rules (and clean up the advanced rules mess to provide 3 separate tight rule sets for various levels of player experience instead of a ton of "optional" shit).
>>98330218>People who start the hobby don't want sci-fi/fantasy mini's, they want Warhammer.Yes, but a starter box for a game does not necessarily aim at complete hobby beginners.
>>98330258Sure, but people who are already in the hobby don't want not necrons and not slann for GW prices.
>>98330208"To wound" is a retarded roll.
>>98329679i dont know if you're being intentionally dishonest,or just retarded. First51 is 26 less minis. Secondthe 26 minis includes all of the big minis, the tripod robot thing, the fat frog, and the croc. theres more terrain in the big box as well.
>>98330254i apperciate what they offer for free. enough stls to play a base game, the regular rules, some tokens.but man yeah, you need the advanced rules to make the game not dog shit. i guess thats the push to their patreon, spend 10 bucks and get all the rules but it comes off as cringe as hell.
>>98326487Anon, we're all one incident in the south china sea away from just not existing.
speaking of which, are their regimented rules (the paid version) any good?
>>98326219OPR is for people who can't keep up with 40k, not for people who want more out of their wargaming. It's utter slop
>>98330789Do you want it?https://it.scribd.com/document/826643864/Age-of-Fantasy-Regiments-Advanced-RulebookThis is the 3.1, we are at 3.5, there were some changes but overall everything is very similari, give it a read and if you like it buy it, you'll get all the updated for free.
>>98326219So this Not-Necron vs Lizardmen in space?
>>98330946It is. Weird choice for factions, but at least the Lizards look interesting enough. >>98330827It has its own niche, for people who want some quick game, with their existing 40k armies, but dont want to play modern warhammer any longer. Its probably not for you, and certainly not for me, but that type of players exist for sure, so good for them if they can sustain their company out of that. I am really curious how they will expand onwards from that starter set, like which faction comes next. For a decent price, their army bundles of other factions might be worth a look.
>>98330860I don't mind paying for rules. I've bought stuff that only me, the creator and maybe his mother ever even heard of.But I appreciate reading beforehand, just to get an idea. So thank you anon.
>>98330205>Normal people do not work like that, calculating a purchase price down to how many miniatures they get per dollar.No, instead they use your retarded metric combined with "game value". Because suddenly paying triple for less figures is good due to arbitrary and ephemeral rules.Also just put guns on them, not hard.
>>98331147>Also just put guns on them, not hard.Where do you get the guns?>No, instead they use your retarded metric combined with "game value".They just think about what game they might wanna play, see if their friends are up to that, and buy a starter set. Following your logic, no starter set for a game like Fallout or Halo would ever sell, because it offers so little miniatures, and people could just buy some Old World Regiment boxes instead. And then put some guns in the hands of their chaos warriors.
>>98331169>where gunsLiterally any bits seller or etsy shop.>game Warhammer. That's it, no one makes these arguments for Malifaux or Infinity. It's always some variation of Warhammer. And no, I don't care for the Halo starter either.
>>98328691Sounds more like WoW collapsed under its own weight and it still lacks an obvious successor.
>>98332541>WoW collapsed under its own weightYeah true. But games like TESO, GW2 & FF were successful clones based on of the QoL-ridden themepark MMO WoW became.>it still lacks an obvious successor.Unlikely to happen, the MMO market has shrunk dramatically and the games I mentioned were successful in spite of that.I agree with the poster I responded too though, I think James Workshop will slowly fail under the same circumstances and won't be "dethroned".
>>98332541mmorpg made their era, LOL took its place.
>>9832666240K has had a number of really good competitors that failed not because of GW but because they were being run by idiots.>Warmachine: killed by running Hordes as ‘separate but equal’ and moving into ‘ultra heavies’ instead of diversifying factions and expanding gameplay types>Warzone: great system and IP, spent too much time and too many resources on Chronopia, a game nobody asked for in the wider market>Dust 1947: confusing multiple editions of rules, tried to run before it learned to walk>Infinity: expensive and gay>Battlefield Evolution: really good system but picked the wrong scale and only had expensive pre-painted models>Flames of War: another great system but had some incredibly stupid rules brought in (like entire squads and platoons being instantly pinned by a single sniper).I mean, I don’t think GW is ‘too big to fail’. Their current policy of pandering to tournament paypiggies makes them a lot of money right now, but I think the market is ripe for a game that brings back a sense of actual tactics and strategy instead of just objective camping. Personally I and a lot of my buddies have drifted away from 40K and into Bolt Action and Konflikt ‘47. Cheaper models, better gameplay. And I think we’ll see a lot more people fall out of love with 40K as they find better games at their local clubs.
>>98327546>a lot of 40k refugees in BattleTech seem to show up, shitpost about Warhammer, and then disappear after a few weeksBattletech has been lost to the gay plague. 40K (and GW in general) are becoming leftist progressive trash but it’s rapidly becoming culturally mandatory to prove you’ve sucked another guy off to be allowed to participate in anything from Catalyst.
>>98328701There’s a ‘best to worst Warhammer animations’ video on YouTube and it’s horrifying how many of them have powerful girlbosses GETTING IT DONE and SHOWING THE MEN WHAT’S WHAT up to and including a woman commanding a Marine battle barge in orbital combat. I think GW is forgetting that although they own the IP, a lot of long-term players genuinely don’t want trans marines and black space wolves.
>>98326289>VictrixNever seen this company before but the models look superb for the price. Thanks.
>>98333596Sometimes I wonder how people like you are able to exist in the hobby. How is it possible?
>>98333897An amazing number of 40k players only theoretically know that manufacturers other than GW exist. They haven't even fully explored GW's own catalog of "things that are not 40k". They might even find cool things that they like if they ever looked, but they have never looked and never will.
>>98332639>and won't be "dethroned".Which is a good thing. Similar to the MMO example, i think its a better situation with several similarly sized games competing with each other, instead of one massive big one dominating everything. Wargaming is not there yet, because GW has not yet failed, but ideally, it will shrink back in size, similarly to how WoW has (and lets be real, WoW will never really die completely, and neither will 40k).
>>98333596Resist the urge to make a Carthaginian army.You'll never finish. >oh but some gauls>gotta have Iberans>and Numedeans >and the Greeks double as more citizen infantry and the heavy successor cav can be Phoenician cav>and I gotta have elephants>I almost forgot to get the actual Lybyan troops It's a bottomless pit of autism.
>>98334118>An amazing number of 40k playersFor sure, but i guess i assume that someone who posts on 4chan out of all places to post about the hobby, is internet-savvy enough to look around a bit more than just the GW website/40k section. Ages ago, i would constantly check the various online shops for all kinds of miniatures, resin bits and all those things, rarely buying anything, but seeing what is available.
>>98334118>An amazing number of 40k playersthe absolute majority, I guess something like 90%
>>98334549Bullshit, because that would indicate that 90% of 40k players only ever play in Warhammer stores or at home, and never even enter a random LGS. Because if they do, they see other stuff on the shelves too.
>>98334608exactly, that's the average GW costumer
>>98326304>not-necron Vs space lizard men. Those are hardly fan favourite factionsThey are the most sold STL on their store.For fantasy lizarmen and not-kehmri
>>98333897If you tune out historicals a company like Victrix is invisible. And that's pretty easy to do.
>>98334737But that is not 90% of the playerbase, because GW stores are not that widely spread.
>>98334738>They are the most sold STL on their store.That is not really a good way to measure it i think, because OPRs STL style is okay at best, and horrible at worst. The Lizards are okay, and the Robots are meh, with some okay exceptions. It does not surprise me that they sell better than the rest of their uninspired slop. Have you seen their Orcs?
>>98333897I have ZERO(0) interest in Historical models. Replaying the battles of old holds no interest in me, all I want is either Fantasy or Sci-fi.
>>98334839They are not bad, just a bit... uninspired?
>>98334836most people that I know only buy in GW store and they are always shocked when I told them that other games exist.To them Mordheim is something obscure.
>>98333549>>Warmachine: killed by running Hordes as ‘separate but equal’ and moving into ‘ultra heavies’ instead of diversifying factions and expanding gameplay typesHordes aren't really what killed Warmachine. The two existed along side each other well enough.But the ultraheavies are a bit more correct. Part of the problem is that something that had existed from the beginning sorta hit a new breaking point."We have introduced a new type of model to the game. They're insanely pushed and they've taken over the game entirely."Also, ever-increasing focus on larger games. Warmachine and Hordes worked best as low point value skirmish games. But because Privateer Press wanted to sell more minis, they kept pushing the game more and more into larger scale games.Warmachine's death was due to a number of factors, but part of what killed it was a refusal to stay in its niche.
>>98326317ralph, pls go
>>98334971The fantasy version i'd say is okay.. but i was thinking about their sci-fi orcs when i wrote that post earlier today.I guess you could call them uninspired too, but i think they are just bad, compared with both: GW plastics but also pretty much any other Ork-STL out there. I understand that they want/need to make their factions unique in their theme, while keeping them compatible to GW units, (which led to good-guy skaven, with Pixar faces), but noble savage space orks just does not work for me.So yeah, i am not surprised that people rather download their Lizardmen. Also thinking about it: The Lizards and the Robots were pretty much among their very first releases, so downloads accumulated over time, compared to other, much newer, stuff.now that i've looked around their mmf store a bit, their elfs, both sci-fi "high elves" as well as their fantasy woodelves are quite decent, and their demon stuff is mostly okay too
>>98335018>But because Privateer Press wanted to sell more minis, they kept pushing the game more and more into larger scale games.I feel like this is an inherent problem to a lot of companies that have a proprietary game as the main way to sell miniatures.It's probably (one of) the factor that contributed to the death of warhammer fantasy. The miniatures I bought 25 years ago are still good nowadays. And, most importantly, they're recognized as valid gaming pieces by the community at large. I really wonder if GW or any other company will eventually attempt some sort of rotation similar to what MtG has to kind of force new stock upon its customer base.
>>98335269They did with space marines, and they are doing it on a smaller scale with pretty much every faction, whenever they re-release new units.
>>98330946It's their most popular self-sculpted minis, they aren't about to make space marines.
>>98330071i entered the hobby learning about the lore and seeing how to paint minis, but i haven´t play Warhammer and i will not do it for a while, my first game was OPR skirmish, then fantasy, then i played Space weirdos, i have not intention at all to play warhammer, i will not pay for those overpriced minis, i'm still a casual player, i have no interest at in playing tournaments and having "updated minis", fuck that shit.
>>98330946i play OPR but i sincerely dont give a fuck about their minis, the charm of OPR is that you can play with whatever the fuck you have around, i love GW minis, i love tyranids and necrons minis, OPR is not great for their minis
>>98335269>I feel like this is an inherent problem to a lot of companies that have a proprietary game as the main way to sell miniatures.Kind of, yeah. The realities of running a company, even before you factor in things like investor demands, is that you do need to grow some year over year. Running the business will only get more expensive due to how inflation works. This is before we factor in that basically all products will have a falling off period.How do you solve this? If you're in the wargaming space, you've got basically three methods (with two having an addendum that can be added)Method 1: push for bigger collections so people have to buy more.Method 2: release new stuff for existing players that's fancier and cooler.Method 2a: as above, but add in some intentional power creep.Method 3: start releasing new lines in the hopes of both reaching new players and sometimes getting your existing players to go "those look sick" and buying them twomethod 3a: as above but with intentional power creep.You'll notice that at different times, Privateer Press used all three. The only ones I ever hear people talk positively about is when they used method 3.
>>98328670And Warhammer is what everyone else is playing.
>>98333549So you drifted from Warhammer to WW2Hammer?>>98334976Tbf, Mordheim is obscure. I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of online fans have never played it, but pretend to because the rules seem cool and to get hipster cred from neo-grogs.
>>98335739>WW2hammerYou’ve never actually played Bolt Action and it shows. >Mordheim is obscureOnly to the ‘joined after 8th edition’ 40K zoomer tournament-player scum that GW is enshittifying the game for.
>>98335871Anon I have been playing since 2002.Mordheim IS obscure. It's one of those "oh yeah GW makes other games" type games. One of those games that maybe your friend Mike will convince you play once using proxies and you go "yeah that was pretty cool I guess" and then never play again.
>>98335316I know basically nothing about space marines so I was curious about what you said and spent the past hour reading forum discussions and watching videos about the divide between primaris and trueborn space marines.I have to be honest, I really can't tell the difference. I mean yes the sculpting styles are different and some have more realistic proportions but to my eyes they all look like space marines. If you put them on the table and mix them up I'd have a hard time telling the difference.I'm surprised it actually worked and people stopped using their new models.But more in general, I meant that if I had an army of orks or eldars or whatever from the late 90s I could still use those models without issue in any store for a pick up game without any special accommodation needed to be made. Sure, my models might be a bit smaller or a tad goofy looking but once painted and on the right base, no one would even dream to question my miniatures.I can't just walk into a store for Friday night Magic with the deck I had in 2007 and participate because my cards are "no longer valid" and are out of rotation.>>98335642I wonder what's going to happen when GW (currently the leader in the market bu a very large margin) wil reach a point where its growth is no longer satisfactory to their expectations.I'm sure no company that deals in nonessentials can just keep growing. I'm curious on what they'll do to mitigate that.
>>98333549>>Warzone: great system and IP, spent too much time and too many resources on Chronopia, a game nobody asked for in the wider marketI thought the first 3 editions of Warzone did ok, especially the first but then the license was revoked
>>98335018>>98335269They changed rules that affected the identity of their characters while insisting on focusing on those characters and on "moving on the story" - the latter a disease GW caught, too.
>>98336003>I'd have a hard time telling the difference.I grant you the benefit of the doubt, but the Primaris are easily 1/3rd bigger than the old marines, and their weapons are completely different, so depending on your/your opponents autism, they are not really mixable.
>>98335269Before GW got greedy, people just started a second or a third army. CURRENT GW can just afford continuous refreshes and new units because of whales and paypigs but that's not a given for every game.For some reason, this concept completely eludes these competitors.
>>98326225CoD killed Halo and Minecraft killed WoW.
>>98336311Maybe it's just me then. But still, to me they're all just "space marines with a boltgun" or "space marines with a flamethrower".
>>98335919Well there’s no such thing as a wrong opinion, but congrats on proving that there is such a thing as gay and retarded ones.
>>98336183That’s the thing, the original authors went bust because of Chronopia and sold the rights on, and every single person who’s had them since has failed to capitalise on them. And now the last thing the market is welcoming is another 28mm large-ish skirmish sci-fi wargame, even if it is simple and really well written.
>>98336311>the Primaris are easily 1/3rd bigger than the old marines, and their weapons are completely different, so depending on your/your opponents autism, they are not really mixable.Behold, a Primaris Sergeant with a Firstborn power fist. You may be surprised how well some elements of the ranges fit together.
>>98339164>some elements of the ranges fit together.Some elements indeed. And of course you can mix "some" bits, but would you mix your tactical marines into your intercessor squads, expecting people to not look weirdly at you? The scale creep with Primaris is massive, and in combination with the rules, the old marines simply died off.. narratively as well as in the stores and tabletops. They are not in demand any more, and (that is my experience from around my area), they disappeared quicker than the old Cadians or old CSM. Because with them, the scale creep wasn't as bad. Kinda contradicting this: Khorne Berzererks were replaced almost asap here, by both Chaos/Khorne players.
>>98336503Yeah, and both of those were not planned as Halo killers or WoW killers, because if you want to bea the leader, you have to do something differently, you cannot beat warhammer by saying "Look, we are just like warhammer but better because X", you ahve to do something different.Warmachine had so much success, because it focused on Waacfaggery and competetive scene, while Warhammer was still about the cinematic interactive dioramas, nowadays, in order to beat Warhammer, you have to do the opposite of what it does
>>98336311The only parts that are actually bigger are legs, and a little bit of the torso, tge rest is the same size
>>98339860>the old marines simply died off"Primaris marines" is a marjeting gimmick of 8th edition, and a way to completely rebalance the faction gameplay wise.If you open the modern Marine codex, you will see the word "Primaris" maybe in a single loreblrurb paragraph, they are essentially the same for most lore purposes
>>98340120It was more than enough to convince the vast majority of people to get rid of their old marines.
>>98340124Yes, of course its marketing. Exactly what Anon above was wondering about, why nobody in wargaming would do it. But turns out: GW did.
>>98333549>actual tactics and strategyThis gets brought up so much, but as someone who played 7th and now HH 2.0 and 3.0, what exactly do people mean by this in regards to older editions? They seemed like big games of leafblower outside of broken gimmick lists or combos like Invisibility.
Buy an ad, you insufferable faggot.
>>98326474>first game non-GW game I've heard ofYou have to be 18 to use this site.
>>98341155And you don't even have to be 18 to understand that that post is making fun of the warhammer only retards.
>>98340984I've played every edition since 3rd and I dont know what that statement means. When I try and come up with a charitable interpretation they never make sense so I'm kind of forced to go with an uncharitable one. The common exposition is that old game required position and maneuver but new game is just throw everything into the middle, which people have been saying on the internet since like 2005, and is a statement that has gotten less and less true over time because of the increasing focus on objective play, so I think what you're seeing is recitement of a stock phrase, not an actual experience based opinion.I think it means:>thing I like = smart, sophisticated >thing I don't like = mindless, silly
>>98326219no, but maybe we will start seeing more alternative wargames switch to single-piece miniatures instead of sprues, because it makes it much easier to get into the games
>>98345104could definitely see this trend continue, but it would make me sad to see
>>98328691>>98332541From everything we know, WoW is currently as popular or more popular than it was historically. Nothing killed it and likely nothing will. and that's before classic+ this fall
I do feel there was a time with serious competition for GW, when Warmahordes and Confrontation did well. Even Flames of War was very popular at my local scene. Those games never tried to be Warhammer, they were their own thing.Shit nowadays? Trench Crusade, OPR... It's just a more boring version of Warhammer.I think the future is just GW.
>>98345104>because it makes it much easier to get into the gamesIts cheaper to produce is the actual reason, but of course they wont sell it for less, and of course they will tell you that its "to make it easier to get to play the game".
>>98345148I like Flames of War, but tbf it's the tank focused WW2hammer. Or at least was when it was popular in that 6e-7e 40k nadir.
>>98345148Not true at all, and i think you are just inside your local bubble. There are more games available than ever, and their sales are better than ever too, despite Warhammer (its 40k mostly) remaining on the top spot without real competition. Mantic keeps releasing plastic miniatures, so does Wargames Atlantic, Warlord Games, Northstar, Archon Studios and others too. None of these companies seems to struggle, and if anything, they increase the amount of stuff they release, which means their sales numbers must support this. Warlord Games in particular seems to do extremely well with their K47 2nd edition: They even started to make individual characters on single sprues, something that was completely unheard of from a "historical" company just 1 years ago. They also released a new Italian plastic tank, plastic weapon teams for WW2 players, and at least 10 different K47 units in plastic.
>>98345137>From everything we know, WoW is currently as popular or more popular than it was historically.You're mental
>>98335739>I wouldn't be surprised if a majority of online fans have never played it, but pretend to because the rules seem cool and to get hipster cred from neo-grogs.I wouldn't be surprised if everyone writing shit like this is coping for having no friends.It takes a handful of models, dense terrain but only on a 4x4 table, and friends or gaming buddies. Obviously there's the catch for a lot of fuckwits on 4chan. I know people that aren't otherwise wargamers that play Mordheim.>>98335919>Mordheim IS obscure. It's one of those "oh yeah GW makes other games" type games.Then everything besides 40k and maybe AoS is """"obscure"""". This is a definition by and for autistic degenerates who haunt stores for pick up games, people whose opinions shouldn't matter.
>>98328691>Cod killed haloNot really. Both were distinct games with distinct but overlapping audiences until around Halo Reach or Halo 4 when the franchise lost its core identity and tried to become CoD.
>>98326219>This is the best starter set I've ever seen.AGOAC exists though.
>>98346015Of course a game that is out of production for decades is obscure. What the fuck are you even discussing here? It might be alive, but certainly not widespread in the sense that you can walk into a store and buy it, and that makes it obscure, because you need to know someone who plays it or consume dedicated hobby media to learn about it.
>>98347472You know you can't even find Battletech reliably in stores. So that's another definition of obscurity that excludes everything besides 40k and AoS. Again, more plainly this time, this is not a useful definition.>because you need to know someone who plays it or consume dedicated hobby media to learn about it.Socialising with people that share interests and consuming media about topics that interests oneself are normal things for normal people.Mordheim is not an indie title that you're only going to find out by direct recommendation, it's visually spectacular game that generates fan media. There's tutorials and guides. It's a GW title. Despite being OOP it has an enduring popularity. It's not obscure.
>>98350571Nta but this means epic also isn’t obscure?I have never seen it played in real life but if it isn’t obscure due to being a gw game then what metric makes something truly obscure in the wargaming space? Literally who indies I think are too far beyond obscure especially when they use 5e or ptba or other commonly licensed engines.
>>98326219First off, buy an ad, you faggot shill. Secondly, no one is paying TWO HUNDRED AND TWENTY FUCKING DOLLARS for some temu ass "we have warhammer at home" knock-off garbage for a game whose whole pitch was initially "free downloadable rules to use 40k models with that fit on a single page" which was already a terrible idea to begin with, but now it's shifting into "buy our homebrew fanfiction crap for hundreds of dollars".Lmao, kill yourself.
>>98350571>You know you can't even find Battletech reliably in stores. So that's another definition of obscurity that excludes everything besides 40k and AoS. Again, more plainly this time, this is not a useful definition.This is the correct definition and the reality. It's a position that has been effectively continuously occupied by 40k, then WHFB/AOS since the new millenium. At various periods, WMH, Flames of War, X-Wing, MCP, Bolt Action have also been here. During 2010-2017ish, you did see more stuff like Malifaux, Infinity, etc. And then that competition in the 2010s hamstrung themselves through various self-inflicted disasters, usually by fucking over LGS with distribution who won't even bother with them years after that initial incident. IP games like SW stuff tends to have an expiration period because of how the licensing works.In terms of sales, BT has had a resurgence and evidently beat AOS last year. And it nevertheless can't be reliably found in brick and mortar (probably because CGL is just pumping with FOMO kickstarters).>it's visually spectacular game that generates fan mediaPassion and impressive dioramas tell you very little about how many people are actually playing it.
>One Page Rules>Look inside>Rules are 15 pages
OPR Dick Riders remind me of Vegans so no there is no way you'll ever convince me to play your fucking game.
>>98326662Warmachine was close, as close as anyone has come. 6/7th edition were unbalanced dogshit. Like even average players were getting pissed off.
>>98353100While the US market is big, let's not overplay Warmachines role anywhere else.
>>98328670This.If would be more than happy to use someone else's rules, but I want to use my 40k army. And then it's just too much trouble to get everyone to agree on a ruleset, and such and we just end up still playing 40k when the only thing we really like is the models and universe. (fuck Primaris)
>>98353102It was gaining ground in the UK as well, nowhere near as much as in the states but it was enough to be notable.
>>98353102Because PP fucked over overseas distributors.
>>98336003I assume at least currently it is trying to branch out of the wargame niche and become a multimedia franchise.
>>98354873That does not mean it was even close to becoming a serious threat to GW.
>>98326474Isn't Trench Crusade a DOA game? I swear, it's like the "daggerheart" where it had all these fanfare but when you ask if anyone plays they look the other way.
>>98326219Not till fans are willing to play another game in mass. It doesn't matter, if a new game comes. Will people play it longer than a week or two before going back to 40 and maybe their small local game store game cause everyone too worry to drop money on a another system that "no one else" is playing.
People aren't into wargames. They're into Warhammer.People aren't into TTRPGs. They're into DnD.People aren't into MMORPGs. They're into WoW.People aren't into music. They're into whatever the radio/influencers etc. decides is trendy.The mass doesn't care. They just pick whatever draws the most crowds because "x amount of people can't be wrong". This is the mentality of mainstreaming, and it's hardwired into all people to some extent. And let's be honest, if I look for a DnD 5e table in my town I have options to pick from. If I look for gurps or CoC they simply aren't there. The only way to play those games is by getting a dnd group, building trust and bonds over several months, then using that trust and bond to play one (1) session of anything else. And I'd have to make sure to be 100% able to handhold the group. Let's be fair. If you want to do this for Warhammer it means you have to convince someone to drop 220 dollars on a game they might not play more than once if at all. You can't take that shit into most games workshop stores and play it with randoms either. Now, is 220 a good value for the product itself? Probably. But if you don't have an ecosystem to play it you're looking at garage conversion projects costing thousands and then painstakingly luring warhammer players to your home to play one or two games using your minis and after likely months to a year you have maybe at least one person who will buy in and consistently play.It might be worth it, of course. You dedicate yourself to a hobby, you create conditions for your hobby to grow. You find people and maybe build a community and friendships. You won't be burdened by the GW law. Hell if you wanna put legos onto the field do it. Its good.But it's not actually cheap. Not financially and not in terms of effort.
>>98357599Pretty much, doesn't matter if you make a great game. You got to have enough people willing to want to play it and you be able to keep making content for it, with more factions, units, lore, etc. Even if you have a great start you have to last long enough to be the household name. It can be done. Look at Yugioh for example. At the time you have Pokemon and Magic and then they took over.So the problem isn't become the king of the hill. It's keeping the title long enough for people to be willing to drop the money and not see you as just a fad or game of the month that last 3 years then dies.
