Want to know whether or not your game world is too cartoony? Simple: is an enraged feral hog dangerous to a single player character at the beginning of the game, or near to it? If not, you're playing analog World of Warcraft!
World of Darkness actually, but your guess was kinda close.
>Traveller>You start with a laser pistol that explodes the hog's head off with a single shotDamn, guess it's WoW.
>>98331102Unironically yes, warcrap is a pulp sci-fi setting.
>>98331102Most wildlife require a double tap in Traveller.Have you played the game much?Ever get miltech gear? I'm in a game, and the powered armor is up for grabs. Worth it?
>>98331074>If not, you're playing analog World of Warcraft!And what is wrong with this exactly?
>>98331074why would it matter if it's the beginning of the game? there's no advancement.
>>98331074Okay and
>>98331074>he thinks an enraged feral hog would be dangerous to a real farmerGo outside
>>98331165If you enjoy World of Wokeslop you should be publicly executed.
>>98331211>being able to easily kill a pig in a tabletop game is bad because uhhhhh I can tangentially connect it to WOKEokay man
>>98331074Boars will fuck you up in wow tho?
>>98331074I like the test but I have to ask why we are testing for this, considering that a lot of people like to just skip early levels '-'
1 Boar (12 Def; 30 Health) vs lvl.1 Fighter (16 Defense with armor + shield; 16 Health).Boar:>D20 +2(str) +1d6 to hit (3.5 average) = roughly 45% to hit per attack.>Deals 1d6 dmg per hit, an extra 1d6 on a crit (simply roll a 21 or higher in this instance, no nat20 needed), and when the Boar is at half it's dmg threshold, deals an ADDITIONAL 1d6 dmg until dead.>Boar has two attacks per roundPlayer:>D20 +3(str) +1d6(3.5 average) = roughly 70% chance to hit.>Deals 2d6 dmg, and an extra 1d6 on crit (total 20 or higher here, no nat20 needed) and can roll damage twice, taking the highest of the twoLvl.1 Fighter has the odds in their favor, but the Boar absolutely could kill him.
>>98331074My game is cartoony and an enraged feral hog is dangerous to a single player character in the early campaign.Now what?
>>98331074>too cartoonyNo such thing. Pass the bacon.
>cartoons = WoWslopDipshit.
>>98331074>Want to know whether or not your game world is too cartoony?No.
>>98331211>>98331122>>98331074Go back
>>98331544Go back to where, thoughbeit?
>>98331074I'd rather play something similar to WoW than realismslop. The heroes - the player characters - should feel heroic, not like glup shitto background NPCs.
>>98331211>LE WOKEAnd there it is. You're a culture war tourist. You don't run or play games at all. Please, do the world a favor and kill yourself. Maybe blow yourself up at some sort of leftist rally so there's less of both ends of the horseshoe.
>>98331602stick to freeform roleplaying forums, kid
>>98331074>Be irl farmfag>get feral hog fucking with potato field >grab ye old rifle >follow track into the woods>hog see you and charge >you shoot it and get enough meat for the rest of the month as a bonusreal life it WoW tier, too cartoony to be taken serious
>>98331727Now you understand why ttrpg purists refuse to include guns in their games, it would make everything cartoony.
>>98331413The damage from the boar feels way too low. Those things could take down and murder a horse and its rider if enraged or motivated enough.
>>98331413I didn't know a D6 had a "3rd and a half" side.
>>98331206>It’s not sharks, wolves, or bears that kill the most people—it’s wild pigs, and the numbers are trending up.https://www.agweb.com/news/livestock/pork/wild-pigs-kill-more-people-sharks-shocking-new-research-reveals>This Market Intel highlights findings from the most comprehensive research to date on feral hog damage, which these new estimates put at over $1.6 billion in annual agricultural losses across just 13 states — covering impacts to livestock, pastureland and six major crops. https://www.fb.org/intel/markets/feral-hogs-vs-farmers-the-damage-price-tag
>>98331727Literal Elmer Fudd Looney Tunes shit. I bet you fuck a sexy as hell crossdressing rabbit too, you sick fuck. I bet you queue for raids in molten core or whatever they do in WoW.
I feel RPGs in general undersell regular wild animals. If a boar is a potent victory for like...every Greek hero ever, then it's good enough for the group.
>>98331866Going to give you a simple statistics lesson. To find out the average result of a die you add up all the sides (1, 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 for a d6) and then divide this total by the number of sides (6 in the cast of a d6). This gives you the average result (21/6 or 3.5 in the case of a D6). If you roll a d6 a thousand times and total up all those rolls the resulting total is going to be ~3500.
>>98331834A standard human has 10 health. 3d6 damage is enough to kill most lvl.1 players. I used a Fighter to prove a point.
>>98331977Soloing a wildboar is a classic feat of heroism, also in slavic folklore.
>>98331977That is kind of the result of level creep over the various editions and games as the years have gone by. When the average "human" npc is 0-level (or 1st level at best) and exceptional individuals top out at ~10, a 3+3 HD boar that can continue fighting for 2-5 rounds even after taking enough damage to die is a scary threat. Now "level 3" is barely starting out so a Boar is in effect a "normal" encounter.
>>98331977THOSE ones were not your regular boars or whatever tough. The Erymanthian boar, probably the least badass of the twelve labors, is described as gigantic, at the very least - hell, I would say Okkoto and Nago from Mononoke Hime are a good ballpark for the monstrous quality of shit like that.
>>98332090The Erymanthian boar was an extreme, but even as late as the Holy Roman Empire a boar hunt was considered a risky and knightly endeavor for a group of skilled hunters.
>>98332107A boar hunt is still dangerous if you don't have a reliable firearm.>>98332070Interestingly, even in a system like WFRP, which kinda prides itself on "oh, you're just a dude," genuinely extremely dangerous animals (boars, bears, bulls) are not much of a menace to even a modestly experienced PC.
>>98331899Are heart attacks and slips and falls something that often kills your PCs?
>>98331074A feral hog killed a PC when we were lvl 3.He had to go back to town to alert them of an incoming threat and was the fastest of the group (druid). He failed the spot and wild empathy checks and the hog mauled him hard
>>98332107I wasn't arguing against the real dangerousness of actual animals at least before repeating firearms*, I was saying that Hercules didn't kill you regular ass boar. At the very least he killed a boarzilla type of boar with his bare hands - the mythical narrative paints that kind of thing as pretty badass.*=hell, my friend's uncle was almost killed by a kamikaze regular deer, not hunting him. He was just going for a walk, perhaps 15 minutes from an highway, and that horned shithead decided to kamikaze him. Not any actual harm but le'ts just say after that he always reminded himself to take his phone even for 5 min walks in the woods.
>>98331074That’s a piss poor test, and you clearly a nogames larper. Get there hence, pretender.
>>98331074>I have never played WoW (commendable)>I also pretend to know what it's like (ultracringe)
>>98332216I saw that video of a guy sniping them with an automatic rifle and the "alpha male" immediately pings him from a huge distance and charges him down in seconds and still manages to nearly fuck him up
>>98332256>I wasn't arguing against the real dangerousness of actual animals at least before repeating firearms*, I was saying that Hercules didn't kill you regular ass boar.I was trying to make a point that hunting regular ass boars was considered a knightly act in things like Arthurian myth and with the Peers of Charlemagne. A "normal ass boar" was still a worthy opponent for a group of heroes.Also Heracules didn't kill the boar, he was tasked with bring the thing back alive which is considered an even greater feat of heroism than killing it.
>>98331074>>98331414My game is cartoony and a particularly angry crawfish and the snapping turtle who hates him are among the most dangerous creatures in existence.
>>98332316I do agree with the knightly thing. Not sure if your average dnd group will feel "right" to do such relatively mundane tasks after, say, 3 level. (most dnd or dnd like game nobles are pretty wimpy, even if I guess they would hunt)
>>98332299Pigs are based. Most mortally wounded animals just try to run away. Pigs will try take you with them.
>>98332009I wasn't talking about statistics, I was talking about a physical object.
>>98331074My cartoony game has dangerous feral hogs.Now what?
>>98332351Yeah I was impressed at how "smart" it was and the bravery/tenacity/bloodlust. I suppose there's a reason boar spears have huge leaf blades/bars at the base because apparently they really will run themselves through, up the entire length of the spear and still fuck you up
>>98332336It doesn't "feel" right mostly because most modern games speedrun leveling and set rather low challenge ratings for dangerous animals. 3.5 D&D set the CR for Boars as 2, Dire Boars, Polar Bears and Tigers at 4, Elephants and Dire Bears at 7 and Dire Tiger and Tyrannosauruses at 8 when "level 20" is supposed to be the end of the campaign. Compare this to pre-3e D&D when level 10+ was considered high level and a group of 12 Boars was enough of a threat that "wasting" a fireball to kill them all was a legit choice.>>98332362And you are still an idiot because the poster you responded to only mentioned the 3.5 average of a d6 and not a "3.5 side" of a d6.
>>98331102A laser is actually a terrible weapon to use on a wild pig unless it's a ridiculously huge one that can flash boil it instantly. In any realistic setting, a man portable laser would have to be held on a target for a significant amount of time to burn through it. Wild boars have tough hides, thick bones and can charge incredibly fast for their size when angry.
>>98331637>NOOOO YOUR CHARACTERS HAVE TO BE MUD FARMING PEASANTS WHO IMMEDIATELY DIE TO DYSENTERY OR PIGS THEY CANT BE ACTUAL HEROESYou're either a very boring person or a sadist who gets off on killing player characters, there is no in between.
>>98331211Warcraft characters also breathe that means that if your characters breathe they are woke
>>98332808Let's be fair anon.He could also be a very boring sadist. The type who wasn't creative enough to think up human skin lampshades and so on back in the day.
>>98331637All the old mythological stories were about megachads and 19th century adventure stories were about megachads and the pulps were also about megachads and all of them were routinely read by people who were just about a hundred times smarter and manlier than anybody alive todayModern media is for actual children.
>>98331977The Homeric heroes in the Illiad routinely drove back entire hordes of murderous warriors, and Achilles in specific routinely did ludicrously superhuman shit like hitting a man's head hard enough to send it flying far away or lifting up giant wooden bars that multiple men were needed to lift. He's also stated to have been able to knock down Troy's gates. And let's not get started on Hercules... Anyways, I don't think normal boars would be a big deal for any Greek hero. Those guys were murdering wolves and lions at 12.
>>98332316the boars were also giant in Arthurian myth though?
>>98332808Arbitrarily scaling threats does not actually make a game or a narrative more exciting, or a character more impressive. It just makes you look like the kind of person who still watches Naruto AMVs in his 40s.
>>98331562Whatever rapepit you crawled out of, you retarded faggot.
>>98332944>Confronted by a writer (Barry Malzberg) demanding that science fiction “explore the question of victimization,” Campbell delivered this:>“I’m not interested in victims,” Campbell said calmly. “I’m interested in heroes. I have to be. Science fiction is a problem-solving medium. Man is a curious animal who wants to know how things work and, given enough time, can find out.”>“But not everyone is a hero,” Malzberg said. “Not everyone can solve problems.”>“Those people aren’t the stuff of science fiction. If science fiction doesn’t deal with success or the road to success, then it isn’t science fiction at all. Mainstream literature is about failure, a literature of defeat. Science fiction is challenge and discovery.” Campbell’s face lit up. “We’re going to land on the moon in a month and it was science fiction which made all of that possible. Isn’t it wonderful? Thank God I’m going to live to see it.” >“The moon landing isn’t science fiction. It comes from technological advance –” >Campbell broke in. “There’s going to be a moon landing because of science fiction. There’s no argument.”This is the relevant part:>Mainstream literature is about failure, a literature of defeat.He was referring to what we today call literary fiction. The trend of making characters into weak and pathetic people is a modern one, and done mostly because moderns are envious, pathetic people themselves, who just hate greatness, seeing it as evil and wanting to drag down everyone to their level.
>>98332944It's not arbitrary. Player Characters should not be glup shittos. They should be a cut above the chaff of normalcy. They are special. They are the main characters. They are the protagonists. They should feel that way. They shouldn't be struggling with a fucking pig.
>>98332969>“Those people aren’t the stuff of science fiction. If science fiction doesn’t deal with success or the road to success, then it isn’t science fiction at all. Mainstream literature is about failure, a literature of defeat. Science fiction is challenge and discovery.” Campbell’s face lit up. “We’re going to land on the moon in a month and it was science fiction which made all of that possible. Isn’t it wonderful? Thank God I’m going to live to see it.”You know, I've never liked Campbell. I always thought he took too many liberties with Howards work after he died.You, you son of a bitch, have just changed my mind on him.
>>98331074What if the feral hog steals the character's twinkie?
>>98332975If Hercules, Odysseus, or Adonis can get a good fight out of a pig, you're not too good for it, Sasuke.
>>98331097In NWoD, housecats were more dangerous than vampires
>>98331122Not really, I grew with it and started reading pulps some years ago.Warcraft is pretty different
>>98331074is that puckee's pig run through a filter? Do I have brain damage? Both? Neither?
>>98333096Hercules fought a giant pig.
>>98332471>It doesn't "feel" right mostly because most modern games speedrun leveling and set rather low challenge ratings for dangerous animals. 3.5 D&D set the CR for Boars as 2, Dire Boars, Polar Bears and Tigers at 4, Elephants and Dire Bears at 7 and Dire Tiger and Tyrannosauruses at 8 when "level 20" is supposed to be the end of the campaign.Yeah, but my point was that even without such game balance it does feel a tiny bit... underwhelming? to be heroes and struggle with your standard run of the mill boar. Make it at least bigger (hogzilla big, I would say).I know that even in more recent fiction you do have heroes struggle with normal fauna: in the lancer/ace stories, Conan himself is almost eaten by a pack of normal if starved wolves, which amusingly enough might even be a tiny bit unrealistic as wolves actually behave, but it does work as a tale. Hell, I thinik it's a good idea, even, to make normal nature herself a tiny bit more scary in fantasy.But... Conan, and really all the hyborian age milieu, is about normal humans (if on the limits of human badassery), and besides he was young there. DND to me is, for better or worse, too magical and "concentrated power" for normal animals to really feel that way. At least since ADND or such. Amusingly enough, this is even isn't really a question of PCs per se (I would assume in a world when a goblin infestation isn't necessarily a village-ending threat, some boars are just another tuesday for villagers or the local knight).>yes, I know Conan does cast a spell in REH canon, but you get my point
>>98332862>Warcraft characters also breatheProof??
I think D&D 5e and Pathfinder 2e pass this test easily: especially the latter.https://roll20.net/compendium/dnd5e/Monsters:Boar?expansion=33335https://2e.aonprd.com/Monsters.aspx?ID=2854
>>98331074>an enraged feral hog is dangerous to a single player character near the end of the game, at max level with the best equipment>cartooniest game in existence
>>98331102>>98332785Another issue with energy weapons, which is touched on in an old science fiction story called "The Gun Without a Bang" that would make them less useful in dealing with wild animals if you're fighting them up close, is that unless it's absolutely huge and makes a thunderclap from ionizing the air in front of it, it won't have the same intimidation factor if you're dealing with a whole herd of pigs. When you shoot one pig with a gun, the rest usually get scared by the noise and scatter. With a small laser, on the other hand, you're more likely to get mobbed while you're shooting the first one.
>>98331727>and get enough meat for the rest of the month as a bonusTechnically true, but you generally don't want to do this unless you literally can't afford food. In a lot of place feral hogs are so riddled with parasites that making them safe to eat require you to cook the meat until it you might as well be eating a boot.
>>98332785>>98333599>in a realistic settingA realistic laser weapon is an invisible ray of searing pain that can inflict burns over a crowd of hundreds of people in miliseconds. A laser weapon made for personal offense would instantly combust anything and everything it's pointed at
>>98333422There's a limited breath meter when underwater.
>>98331102How about a 100kg frozen hog pushed out of an airlock of a Free Trader moving at 200km/sec, setting it on a trajectory so it hits a pirate space station orbiting on the far side of a moon?
>>98333600Is it true that meat from uncastrated males taste bad too?
>>98331074Depends on the lethality of the system, in GURPS with a lengthy sharp stick, you might get lucky and skewer a boar through by timing your attack to counter its rush attack.
>>98333178ghouled cats can get nasty, regular cats are just annoying
>>98333648it entirely depends on your definition of "realistic"if we mean the year 2026, then man-portable laser weapons simply do not exist at all because our technology is still too primitiveif we mean realistic as in "a laser is focused light", then the effect on target is entirely dictated by what power the man portable laser isusing futuristic technology, in a setting taking place in the future, to develop a 1KW laser the size of a rifle then a 1-second pulse on target would deliver 1000 joules on target, or halfway between a .357 magnum and a 5.56 roundkeeping it on target for that long wouldnt be possible, but even if you only grazed them, you would still see debilitating burns caused by fractions of a second of contactthe damage would also be greater than you think, because the rapid expansion of vaporized water from tissue would cause significant tissue damageso while a bullet penetrated deep into tissue and kills via puncturing vital organs, a laser would cause death entirely through traumatic tissue damage of a wide, though shallow, nature
>>98333600Yeah where I'm from people just tell you to destroy the hog meat. Very much not good eats.
>>98331074>an enraged feral hogBut enough about my character.
>>98331102>my world is not cartoony because... i have magic pew pew space ray guns in my pocket that can make wild pigs explodesure dude
>>98331074can we add this to the local lord mythos? is the honor guard in full harness a match for the enraged feral hog? i think they may take it down but not without heavy casualties
>>98334652a lot of non-cartoons have pocket-sized death rays
>meet wild feral boar>You fight it because it looked funny.>Kill the boar.>but! >the boar manages to wound you!>but it's just a flesh wound no biggie>Oh no!>There is no easy access to reliable antiseptics or antibiotics!>Town cleric left on pilgrimage and replacement hasn't arrived yet!>A week later you die due to a cocktail of bacterial infections and gangrene.mmmh real realism... such gameplay, great stories.
>>98334707If the injury is on a limb, you probably still can amputate and cauterize the stump to survive.On a torso, you can't do much else besides pour some liquor over it and hope for the best.
>>98334724while it is true that medieval medicine was far from what is today and could kill you if it didnt save youbut if everyone died from minor injuries, then nobody would be around today ancient romans knew how to clamp arteries with forceps to stem the bleeding and then and clean the wound with honey and herbs before stitching the wound upsurvival rates wouldnt be close to what we could do now, but it wasnt a death sentence eitherand thats before you consider magic
>>98331074>implying a hog aint a danger for beginner characters in WoWtell me you never quested in Elwynn forest without telling me
>>98334707You joke, but this tends to be how most people's first few characters die in WFRP. In the older editions, anyway. I think the newer stuff is supposed to be more forgiving, I dunno, haven't played the latest one.
>>98334253>How about a 100kg frozen hog pushed out of an airlock of a Free Trader moving at 200km/seckek god's greatest soldier
>>98334811Been a while since I've touched 4e but IIRC Cauterize spell stops bleeding, prevents infection, and counts as minimal necessary medical attention to stabilize the dying, the instakill critical hit results got toned down since 2e, and there's still Fate points. So you won't see character death all that much unless it's TPK.
>Mainstream literature is about failure, a literature of defeat. Science fiction is challenge and discovery.It can be, but that's a ridiculously narrow viewpoint. When he said that, Dune was a few years old, and DADOES (Blade Runner) had recently been released. Caves of Steel was over a decade old by that point.Campbell is talking out of his ass and generalizing his personal preferences. >>98332985Maybe you should not be hasty. >>98331971>molten core or whatever they do in WoW.You clearly know enough about WoW to reference this. You aren't fooling anybody.>I bet you fuck a sexy as hell crossdressing rabbit too, you sick fuck.Don't pretend like you wouldn't.
>>98332969>I need to fight a continent sized dragon threatening all the multiverse or my game is literature of failure ???????
>>98334439Sour.
>>983348114e is made for D&D troons. 3e may as well be DBZ.
>>98334684whatever you say, marvin the martian
Relatability helps to frame heroic accomplishments better. No one is impressed to hear a D&D 5e party beat a vampire lord. If you tell someone your WFRP 2e party beat a Vampire Lord, though, they're going to want to know that story. This is because the Warhammer PCs are people and can die like people, and the D&D toons are invincible wish fulfillment.
>>98331074>If not, you're playing analog World of Warcraft!You know what. No. Shut the fuck up. I'm joining this argument not to defend any tabletop game but to defend fucking world of warcraft.Yeah. The game eventually reaches the point where you and 9-24 buddies are teaming up to kick an elder god in the dick over and over until it keels over and drops the wrong god damn chestpiece again for the third fucking week in a row.But the game starts with you being a relatively normal dude. Are you a low level WoW PC? A boar WILL fuck you up if you're not properly setting up for the fight.
>>98331413>levels>classesthank god I'm not you!
>>98331971World of Warcraft is a thing tabletop rpg players love to wring their hands about without ever having to actually engage with.I say this with full malice. I've ripped off encounter designs from MMOs wholesale. The kind of hogs that fret over games being "too much like world of warcraft" clap like fucking seals when I rip off world of warcraft. But this is nothing new.Did you know that when 3.0 was coming out, there were people talking about how this was going to be tabletop Diablo and that this was the end of tabletop roleplaying games as we know them.They don't actually know anything about world of warcraft. The most they know about it is that Steve from their old high school game started playing it and then started blowing off D&D to play WoW.
>>98334955Forgot the >>98332969
>>98331413>Levels>Hit Points>Modifiers to randomly generated numbers determining if you hit and how much damage you do.This reeks of warcraft.
>>98331637Make me, lardass.
>>98335098i think a lot of people only know WOW from osmosis and choose to treat every design choice in it as intrinsically bad without knowing why they were made or even whether they are even as bad as they say it is
>>98331977No it isn't.
>>98332969>“We’re going to land on the moon in a month and it was science fiction which made all of that possible."Look at this self-important lardass."yeah my books are definitely why we're going to the moon. It was me. I deserve the credit. Not the people who actually did the work."
>>98332944actually it does retard
>>98335134a wild boar in DnD 5e is CR 1/4a town guard is CR 1/8 and a commoner is CR 0it takes 2 normal people with a shield to deal with a single wild boar and theres a 50/50 chance one of them goes home on his shieldyour average level 1 character could solo a boar but he is taking a few boo boos in the process, and taking on 2 at once is actually quite dicey unless the rest of your part intervenes
>>98335125You'll run into it with millennials a lot, especially the older ones. We're talking people born late 80s/early 90s.WoW was the reason their D&D game stopped happening. This was not helped when a new version of D&D came out that looked weird and different (I will make some emphasis - it wasn't actually THAT different, it just had less artifice.) It was taking away some of their hobby. Just like WoW did. Therefore this thing I don't like is like WoW. All things I don't like about the direction tabletop games are is because they're becoming more like WoW. WoW is the great evil that is destroying my hobby. It's not that I am getting older, my school friendships are drifting apart, my friends are developing new interests and that making new relationships as an adult is hard. It's world of warcraft that's too blame. Damn you Blizzard Entertainment for destroying D&D.I'll mention that if you roll back the clock *very slightly* you can find slightly similar sentiments to Everquest. However, they are less pronounced because Everquest was not the runaway freight train of success that was World of Warcraft.
>>98335059what are you confused about?
>>98335096do you think people play games to impress other people? the fuck? are you from Earth?
>>98335096why would you tell other people about your make believe game??? jesus what a depressing life
>>98335118they were right and 3.0 is diablo, retard.
>>98335125Everything in wow is intrinsically bad a priori, dumbass 4rry
>>98335144not good enough for the party.
>>98335156Everything they believe is correct.
>>98331074I prefer this kind of Big Pighttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vllIofWpnk4
>>98335180as literally mentioned, a boar is about as strong relative to the niormal human as you would expectwhile a level 1 fighter can reliably take down a boar solo, a level 1 fighter also has heavy armor and explicitly above average skill compared to a normal man, and even then he isnt coming back from the fight unscathed a party of 4 would find a pack of 6-7 wild hogs fighting to the death a fair challengeand if the hogs get surprise on the party, it would actually be a very close fight
>>98331074I much prefer the nig test.
>>98335172I fucking love vintage grognardtism.
>>98331102You are using sci-fi tech that is essentially impossible. Yes, you are playing high fantasy at that point.
>>98331206If you are in an area with uncontrolled wild boar, you know they absolutely kill you and will eat your body bones and all. You also know that you have to use pretty high powered rifle rounds to drop them and even then, unless you get a good head shot, they are going to take more than one round while they come tearing after your ass after the first shot. Boar are no joke. They fight hard.
Hello I am from the future the cycle of popular video games being blamed for a tabletop game not being how you like it will never went.6th edition is going to be accused of being too much like FF14. Part of this will be because Orcs and Tabaxi feature prominently in the PHB.Some change to warhammer is going to have people saying that it's too much like Call of Duty. I don't really play warhammer and Call of Duty isn't really relevant anymore but shockingly it's a common thing.Also people will say that Magic the Gathering is just fortnite but that's something that they're saying right now in the year 2026 and also they are correct and they will continue to be correct.
>>98335076I read it in his voice
>>98332471The average result of a D6 roll can't be 3.5 because that face on the die doesn't exist.
>>98335261Anon I want you to do a little experiment.Add up the numbers on the faces of a d6. Then divide that number by the number of faces a d6 has (hint, it's 6)In fact, I'll even give you the formula. Just to make it easier for you.X = (1+2+3+4+5+6)/6Solve for X to find the average result on a d6!
There's a boar coming Ned. I don't know when, I don't know who'll it be goring, but it's coming.
>>98335276I know about the mathematics, you insipid fuck.Try to think about things beyond numbers on a screen, and you'll understand what I'm talking about.
>>98335163>>98335167>no reply, just seethe
>>98335301>even though the average of rolls on a D6 are literally and mathematically provable as 3.5, its still wrong
>>98335118They were right. The damage 3e did to D&D and this hobby in general is genuinely irrevocable.People say "WoW" the way people used to say "gay." It just means stupid or bad.
>>98335340it feels like they just use WOW as a boogeyman without actually having played the thing
>>98335301Just say median instead of average.
>>98335315It's okay that you have aphantasia, just grab one of your dice and put it on your desk.Roll it around, and you'll understand after a few tosses that the average roll can never be 3.5.
>>98335355The Anon I first responded to didn't say median, he said average.
>>98335125>>98335156The most mindboggling thing about the whole "ttrpg vs vidya" console war is ttrpg and video games arent even that far apart in cultural age, Chainmail was published in 1971 and Pong was released in 1972. What's more a lot of early video games existed to ease or facilitate the ttrpg experience; MUDs come to mind, but even games like Rogue were made to simulate the ttrpg feel when you dont have the privilege of your play group. Hell even DOOM, and thus the FPS genre and subsequently Minecraft (aka the most successful video game of all time), was born from a D&D campaign.
>>98335367>Roll it around, and you'll understand after a few tosses that the average roll can never be 3.5.but the average of all rolls is exactly 3.5
>>98335280
>>98335096no, it's actually the opposite. people will be interested in hearing your d&d adventures because it's popular and they aren't powerscaling autistson the other hand nobody will give a fuck about your special snowflake game
>>98335301>I know about the mathematics, you insipid fuck.You clearly do not.>Try to think about things beyond numbers on a screen, and you'll understand what I'm talking about.Brother we're talking about math here because all these games are just fucking fancy word problems.Your dipshit objection was seeing someone talk about the math of a boar vs a level 1 fighter in some D&D knockoff and going "but muh physical object."
>>98335367Anon do me a favor.Grab one of your physical dice. Do a water test on it first, make sure it's actually properly balanced.Roll it a sufficient large number of times. We'll say 100,000 times. Keep track of your results.Once you finished, add up the results and divide it by how many times you rolled the dice. Once you've done that, come back here and tell me what that number is. (hint: if it's an integer, your die is incorrectly weighted)
>>98335280>high-level fighter, not far from the strongest in the setting>still got GAPED and RAPED by a feral pigthis proves how GRITTY and REVLISTIC GoT is
>>98335440what definition for average is there besides "sum of all values divided by number values"?
>>98335404Bro thinks people ignoring him when he jabbers about his transfem tiefling are listening.
>>98335442>BOOOOOAR>WHOOOOOOORE
>>98335096>If you tell someone your WFRP 2e party beat a Vampire Lord, though, they're going to want to know that story.Anon, we're going to simulate the results of trying to tell someone that your WFRP 2e party beat a vampire lord."what the hell is warhammer fantasy roleplay? is that like D&D or something? Is it being second edition important or something?"These are not questions being asked in general interest, but because this person has no fucking clue what you're talking about.
>>98335496Ah, I see the confusion. You think someone who larps playing RPGs by watching Critical Role is a member of this hobby. While that is a popular opinion on Reddi, here, people do indeed play traditional games.
>>98335505First, I'll just point out that you're trying to move to goalpost by going "well they're not in the hobby" when that wasn't brought up.But guess what man. I'm in the hobby. I don't really give a shit the story about how your collection or ratcatchers, ditchdiggers, and a self-immolating wizard killed a vampire lord. Because I know this story, because I've been told it countless times. "see it was so scary and so deadly but because we rolled well we killed a vampire lord" is going to be the summary of the story. Why? Because that's every WHFB war story. "the game is so deadly and dangerous but we managed to barely survive this thing."To be clear, your average D&D story isn't that fucking interesting either. But at least those tend to have narratives beyond "man this game is so deadly."
>>98335367I just did, the average in my case after 600 rolls was 3.4921. Fairly close to the expected value.
>>98335449Is that what you're reduced to, Anon? Arguments based around sophistry? We all know what average means. There is a cultural understanding of what people mean when they say average. There is a mathematical understand of what people mean when they say average. You're trying to play with the idea that there's some other definition of average that doesn't mean you're wrong.
>>98335620>We all know what average means.then why is there even an argument if there is a concrete and proveable answer?>e. You're trying to play with the idea that there's some other definition of average that doesn't mean you're wrong.is there any other definition for average other than the mathematical one?
>>98335632>then why is there even an argument if there is a concrete and proveable answer?There isn't an argument. The answer for the average result of a d6 roll is 3.5. You're simply being obstinate about there not being a 3.5 face because you're struggling to wrap your mind around the fact that sometimes when you're talking about things like averages, probabilities and other mathematical concepts you're going to run into things like "the average die roll on any die with an even number of sides isn't going to be a whole number." You're probably also the kind of person who digs his heels in when it comes to Monty Hall problems.>is there any other definition for average other than the mathematical one?There are but the all exist downstream from the mathematical definition and none of them would be a more appropriate to use in the context of an average dice roll than the mathematical one.
>>98335674>The answer for the average result of a d6 roll is 3.5.thats what was meant by>"sum of all values divided by number valuesbecause that equals 3.5
>Real life>Enraged feral hog is no threat to me because I live inside a house and it can't open doorsGuess real life is too cartoony
>>98335694Then what the fuck are you trying to argue?
>>98335505We are talking about Warhammer, the franchise about watching lore videos on YouTube, right?
>>98335496funko-pop brain over here, lol>WHAT IS THIS BRAND? I ONLY ENGAGE WITH BRANDS THAT ADVERTISERS TELL ME ARE FOR WHAT THEY TELL ME I AM!
>>98335937That's 40k.
>>98335582That sounds like a median, not an average.
>>983310743.5 passes the test
>>98332471>Compare this to pre-3e D&D when level 10+ was considered high level and a group of 12 Boars was enough of a threat that "wasting" a fireball to kill them all was a legit choice.still is in 3.5
>>98335387That's actually the mean of all the values added up, not the average result rolled on a D6.
>>98335422>You clearly do not.I know what a mean is, so I clearly know more than you.>Brother we're talking about math hereNo, you're talking about the mean probability value of a D6.I'm telling you the average roll of a D6 can't ever be something a face a D6 can never present."Brother".
>>98335440>Once you've done that, come back here and tell me what that number is.Why would I tell you the mean value when the conversation is about the average result?
>>98335117>levelsYes, a quick reference point to key in on where a player/party is in relation of power compared to what you choose to throw at them (and/or how many) is a beneficial system to have.>ClassesNobody said this.
>>98336191Actually it's the mean.A median isn't skewed by highs and lows.
>>98331074I agree. My uncle tried horseback spear hunting wild boar and one unzipped his horse like a coat hanger cover full of viscera. He injured his vertebrae too bad to get up and had to dump all six 45 long toms from his sidearm into it to not get dead himself. Metal as fuck, I'm glad things that monstrous actually exist.
>>98333212Now that you mentioned it, it totally is.No wonder the faggot who made the thread had no interest in answering a challenge to his inane tangentially-games question.
>>98335756you started arguing with each other despite saying the same thing because you're retards, while the guy who said that there's no 3.5 face on a d6 stopped replying. there i solved the mystery.
>>98336191>>98336444Correct but doesn't matter, because the mean, median and average of a d6 are all the same, 3.5
>>98336455Poor horse, though.
>>98336487It's not. The puckslop pig only shares in common that it's walking towards the viewer's right hand side.Actually, the AI OP image is better than the puckee one, and that's incredibly funny to me.
>>98336600Do you not understand the difference between conceptual values and physical objects?The average number of fingers on a human's hand isn't 2.5, you distended meat cabbage.
>>98336436>I know what a mean is, so I clearly know more than you.So do I. I also know enough about mathematics and how people use the English language to know that when people say "average" they mean mean, rather than median or mode. >I'm telling you the average roll of a D6 can't ever be something a face a D6 can never present.And yet that's what the math is. The average roll of a d6 has a value of 3.5.Do you think the average is something other than 3.5? Show your fucking work. Tell us what the average roll is (emphasis, roll. Singular. If you give 2 numbers you have failed to answer the question) and more importantly how you reached that conclusion. Otherwise, you're engaging in an argument that's largely rooted in you being an obstinate child.>"Brother".What? Did you start taking estrogen or something? Is that why you're getting hysteric and not able to do math? Because you're becoming a woman?
>>98336637The average roll of a D6 can't have a non-integer value, because all of a physical D6's faces are integer values.The mean of a D6's average values is definitely 3.5, at least according to statistical probability theory.Now that I've explicitly explained the difference to you, you'll still ignore it and double down, because you're an autistic retard.Your forced southern speech-text isn't doing you any favors either.
>>98336627>The average number of fingers on a human's hand isn't 2.5, you distended meat cabbage.Technically the average, as most people would use average, if you were able to get the math in would probably be 3.something. Hard to get an exact number because we just don't have the data.Your typical human hand has four naturally occurring fingers (Hey retard I just read your mind, you thought "there are 5." The thumb is not a finger, you fucking moron.) On occasion, you're going to have someone born polydactyly or symbrachydactyly. If memory serves, it's more common for someone to be born with too many fingers rather than not enough. Then of course we have to factor in partial amputations. We're going to exclude anyone who has their entire hand amputated because they're a null, so we're only looking at partial amputations. From what I remember, most forms of digit loss will result in someone losing one finger rather than multiple fingers, but it does happen. But the sheer number of people who never lose a finger deeply outweighs the number of people who do, so we're looking at an average that is below but closer to four than three.Of course, you're an idiot who was thinking about the amount of fingers typically on a human hand and was assuming that's an average hand. This is because you're sloppy with your language.
>>98336659You know what t his post doesn't contain? An actual answer to the question asked. So I'll ask it again: if the average roll of a d6 is an integer value, what is that integer? Explain how you reached that conclusion.Of course, you're not going to answer. Either because you know there ISN'T an answer or because the estrogen has taken hold of you and you're no longer able to argue in a way that isn't screeching.
>>98331602Your post is so reddit I actually looked for the downcummy button.Anyway how many games even fail this test?
>>98336627and yet, the mean, median, and average results of a d6, be it conceptual or physical, are and will always be 3.5, no matter how much you whine.
>>98337034None. Enraged feral hogs are always a serious threat to any character in any game
>>98335442>>high-level fighter, not far from the strongest in the setting20 years ago maybe.
>>98336443lol trash
>>98336191no it doesn't. do you know what average means?
>>98336627so you don't know what average means?
>>98336659so you don't know what average means?
>>98331074Princess has a hardcore death count of 29,039 players.
>>98333600Good thing I made an habit f taking antiparasitics on the regular>>98334439the smell of uncastrated males meat alone makes you think it's spoiled
>>98332785>a man portable laser would have to be held on a target for a significant amount of time to burn through it.Small arms sized lasers, if designed to equip infantry, would shoot tens or hundreds of pulses in miliseconds, as to flash-heat the target area, make an ugly crater and turn a hand/should/belly into pink mist.The "heat ray" type, the one you describe, if powerful enough, could be a "sniper flamethrower", as one could quickly heat a somewhat small area from far away, causing burns in people, ignite clothing, prevent enemy lasers from cooling etc.https://panoptesv.com/SciFi/LaserDeathRay/Antipersonnel.html>>98333599>When you shoot one pig with a gun, the rest usually get scared by the noise and scatter. With a small laser, on the other hand, you're more likely to get mobbed while you're shooting the first one.https://projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/sidearmenergy.php#id--Lasers--Lasers_In_Practice>The beam, when incident upon its target, will make a nice bang.>The pistol won't make a "zap" sound, will it?>If the beam is repeated rapidly it might, however, make a buzz. It might end up sounding quite electrical at a few hundred Hertz.>Will it be too quiet to hear or will be loud enough to cause hearing loss? Will it sound like an extended explosion as the series of steam detonations bore a hole?>...The individual explosions will be too closely spaced (microseconds apart) to be individually audible... The bang comes from a series of explosions whose total energy is about the same as that of the gunpowder detonating in a firing rifle, so it will probably be about as loud.
>>98335192I prefer this onehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qa-lmcdlq4A
>>98335340>The damage 3e did to D&D and this hobby in general is genuinely irrevocable.Yes, but it didn't have anything to do with it being Diablo. It had to do with:- Introduction of skills and feats (makes character creation more complex and slow in a way that makes the game less balanced and less flexible)- Monsters working the same way as PCs (makes monsters take longer for no benefit to anyone)- Figured characteristics in monster design (makes monsters take longer for no benefit to everyone)All of which was about simulating/trying to be a generic chassis, not getting loot or fighting monsters (the core gameplay loop of D&D that Diablo ripped off).
>>98336427Mean and average are synonyms, retard.
>>983377753e didn't damage the hobby in and of itself. The OGL damaged the hobby because it stifled system creation and just had people shoving everything into a system that didn't work for shit outside it's limited design ideas. A trend that continues today with 5e, PbtA, and more.
>>98337227Name your system, coward.
>>98336611Soulless as AI, I can't believe someone paid for this slop
>>98336659I hope you are still experiencing the deep shame for this post that you deserve.
>>98335377>>98335355The median on a 6 sided die is also 3.5, brcause with even uniform possibilities, the median will be the average of 3 and 4.Get btfo'd kek.
>>98335207Orion's Arm is another example of a setting that is effectively high fantasy with a soft magic system, but just has a sci-fi aesthetic. Specifically, it uses nanotechnology to justify what are essentially fantastical dreamscapes that can be reorganized at an atomic level via thought, without significant visible intermediate stages between states, which is both impossible due to binding energy, and indistinguishable from a sufficiently advanced hallucination.That being said, a laser pistol with similar or more severe damage to a bullet is definitely possible, although the main benefits of it would not be literally exploding things (you can do that with incendiary or depleted uranium bullets) but the ability to store a much higher amount of ammunition in the gun since the ammunition would have a higher ratio of its mass converted into pure energy (in comparison, less than 0.1% of a hydrogen bomb becomes energy, while the ratio for a gunpowder bullet is estimated at 7 parts per trillion).
>>98331602>heroicAs >>98331977 and >>98332471 pointed out, before the balancefagging of fantasy, wild boars and other animals were serious threats both in mythology and early fiction, and heroes were considered heroic precisely for defeating monsters not that far from animals. Dragons were feared even when just described as great serpents that might have had wings and claws but were smaller than animals which existed at the time, and some other mythological creatures were combinations of the features of various animals, possibly in a giant or materially enhanced form. You could probably defeat the Stymphalian Birds with bronze age weaponry, that doesn't stop doing so from being one of Hercules (a demigod)'s labors.>>98331206>>98331822What are you going to do if 30-50 (1d12 + 1d10 + 28) feral hogs appear as a random encounter and the local lord only lets you, a militiaman not worthy of the title knight, own a musket which can be loaded 3 times per minute, instead of an assault crossbow (by which I mean either a regular or repeating crossbow, both of which are better against targets without plate armor)?
>>98332285Not OP but I played in a LARP (FanWar, the rulebook is accessible online and its one of the few currently played games with complex subsystems, possibly because the owner hasn't read any new TTRPG books and the culture is more isolated from TTRPGs than you would expect), and animals are surprisingly dangerous for a game in which you can cast fire balls and death rays at first rank in a mage class. They can still be affected by spells and class abilities, but most of them have high HP for their size and have natural attacks and often either innate stealth or an ability to ignore a specific type of terrain, and they may have nonmagical class abilities such as the ability to go berserk.
>>98331602You have the mind of a child if you need to turn everything into DBZ to feel heroic.
>>98339038People just don't do things any more. They might respect animals if they actually went outside and interacted with the world. An animal trying to kill you will change your perspective on that animal.
>>98337869What's reapply baffling is it's not even interesting art of a pig. Like it's just pigging along calmly. At least the OP one is charging. The puckpig looks like art from a bad 90s mtg card that no one uses.
>>98337800What systems have iterations where the iterating is actually good, though? There's Barbarians of Lemuria, but that's real niche.
>>98339110I'm somewhat of an autist and have never been in a real fight, but even I recall a moment during a school camping trip when I ran away from a raccoon out of genuine fear of disease (it was pursuing me), and more recently I took the long path to walk home after hiking, when I saw an unleashed and unaccompanied large dog blocking the path I normally used, because I didn't want to risk being attacked and I know the damage that a large carnivorous animal can do to an unarmed human. My preferred explanation for the absurdity of some RPG-related debates not being solved is that most people don't actually think in a systematizing or simulationist way, they just want a power fantasy and/or casual board game and/or fanfiction tool, while RPGs were overwhelmingly created by people who thought about making their games make sense in a way that was completely amoral and unconcerned for the potential humiliation of players and their characters. Because this is a completely alien mindset to the vast majority of people, when confronted with it they will confuse it with arbitrary DM tyranny (possible in any game, but actually much easier to get away with in games which do not encourage verisimilitude), pointless detail that can be abstracted away (Chesterton's Fence applies here), or contrarian opposition to high fantasy. Hypothetically, if you described LOTR's setting and changed the names and identifying details, rpgnetters would shriek "fantasy heartbreaker" at you, and players used to glowing pauldron-covered superheroic video games or "Race NounVerber" names/everything being associated with an element of magic would ask why the setting is so down to earth.
>>98335202If your ruleset crashes when attempting to evaluate whether a rape attempt succeeds or fails, it's not detailed enough.If your ruleset has no procedures for trying to steal a weapon from out of someone's hand mid-combat, it's not detailed enough.
>>98335442>>98335390>>98335469kekI miss bobby b posting...
THE BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAR IS PREGNANT
>>98331074A boar would be cataclysmic even towards the end of a campaign. I guess Mouseguard isn't cartoonish at all.
>>98333600>In a lot of place feral hogs are so riddled with parasites that making them safe to eat require you to cook the meat until it you might as well be eating a boot.165f is enough to kill trichinella, and thats the worst danger. You want to slow smoke it up to 205f anyway for best results, if your boot pulled apart like a pork shoulder at that point of doneness you should slap some barbeque sauce on it and eat it.
>>98331074Holy shit your thread is godawful.
>>98331971Kek
>>98339108>DBZ >A group of soldiers hunting a wild boar is equivalent to destroying the moon with a laser beam.Lmao
>>98341849BOAR WHOREON AN OPEN FIELD, NED
>>98331074Played this one from start to finish. Every time a boar was engaged in combat, a PC died. Every. Single. Time.One of my character's died the very session he was introduced, to a boar.
>>98343060
>>98342911BESSIE! THANK THE GODS FOR BESSIE! AND HER TITS!
>>98340507It's just not the same with HotD
>>98331971Why do you think the rabbit is sexy anon
>be guy with full plate armor and underlayer>effectively a walking tank by medieval standards>swords and arrows glance off me>impacts get spread out and dampened by the armor and underlayer>be [GAME] guy with full plate armor>i got the highest armor class>boar rolls above my AC>die
>>98335123just play an osprey military sim so you can have a big wank to yourself about how nonwoke your static numbers are
>>98345454This is why armor and evasion should be 2 separate stats, with evasion determining if you get hit and armor determining how much the damage is reduced (one of the few things that JRPGs do more realistically).
>>98343210Why don't you?
>>98335098>Are you a low level WoW PC? A boar WILL fuck made this whole premise of the thread so bewildering. i clearly remember trying to run from boars constantly due to being too weak to fight them
>>98347391Random numbers are actually woke but this thread is not the place for that conversation
>>98332471>It doesn't "feel" right mostly because most modern games speedrun leveling and set rather low challenge ratings for dangerous animals. 3.5 D&D set the CR for Boars as 2, Dire Boars, Polar Bears and Tigers at 4, Elephants and Dire Bears at 7 and Dire Tiger and Tyrannosauruses at 8 when "level 20" is supposed to be the end of the campaign.Not... really. The rules go up to level 20, but you're not actually going to go from level 1 to level 20 except very rarely. The vast majority of games (that don't start at high levels) stay in the 1-10 range, much like in previous editions.
>>983344791000 J is less than 250 calories. That's not even enough energy to vaporize one gram of water. You're a couple orders of magnitude short of being able to cause "debilitating burns".
>>98331074A boar is beyond an extreme encounter at level 1 in Pathfinder 2e and only becomes trivial at level 6. Even a juvenile boar is a severe encounter.And Pathfinder is literally just analog WoW
>>98331074Hi guys.This is the stat line for a boar in the official World of Warcraft d20 game. As you can see, it's CR 2. A single boar has 25 HP, can deal up to 11 damage on a hit, and can easily notice and obliterate a level 1 rogue trying to sneak attack it. It also has an AC 16, comparable to the Fighter of the party. A single boar will fuck up your average level 1 four-man-band and these can also be up to a band of eight. Thus, playing analog World of Warcraft is not playing analog World of Warcraft.
>>98348242Go right ahead and make a thread for that conversation, I'd love to hear this angle.
>character forgets mosquito net>doesnt even get malariaCartoony bullshit
On a semi-relevant note, and so I don't kill a whole thread for this question; what would be some CR0 encounters? Like, what would be something that your NPC peasant/farmer/merchant, etc COULD actually handle? Snakes/Rats/Birds aside and either 1v1 or as a group(mob)?
>>983511851d12 infants
>>98337034Exalted, Godbound, In Nomine, GURPS depending on starting points, Mutants & Masterminds, Werewolf: the Apocalypse, Wraith: the Oblivon, Warhammer: Wrath & Glory
>>98347653It works like that in every single system I played except Dungeons and Redditors
>>98331602>bro my toon needs to be scrimblo bimblo the hero, not glup shitto the NPC
WHFRP 4e starter characters can kill a boar but it really depends on what you roll. A knight can do it no problem but a lawyer would die.
>>98331074couldn't you find a boar image instead of shitting up the board with sloppa?
>>98331206You are the most ignorant motherfucker on this board right now.
>>98331602I'm guessing role playing games are your only opportunity in life to ever feel like you matter.
>>98332975Just go play some mainstream video game. Everyone there will be happy to suck your e-peen all day.
>>98335118>there were people talking about how this was going to be tabletop DiabloIt kinda was. /tg/ is full of people who are so autistic they can't even imagine how someone could want something out of an RPG other than furiously masturbating over how optimized their characters are and all the phat lewt they get when they kill mobs.
>>983310973 of us actually got jumped by one in my chronicle. We shot it, took it back to camp, and had our vampire friend's ghoul spitroast it for us. We ate good that night.
>>98335136His point is more that we dreamed of landing on the moon via science fiction. We wouldn't have even thought about that if it wasn't for the moon bases in sci-fi.
