In any game that has an "intelligence" stat or an equivalent, why in the fuck would you EVER not max it out even if at the expense of everything else?
>>98340192My character could be the next Einstein. A bullet will kill them just as dead as it would a stupid person.
For mechanical reasons.
>>98340192Because intelligence dosen't stop rocks from falling on you.
Sentient vegetables tend to get unplugged
>>98340192Because it generally only covers a narrow sub-set of mental faculties with other aspects of character generation governing the specialized training that leverages it for actually-important things, which rarely cover the run-away successes from our history due to terribly little economic simulation or technological innovation.It's more the habit of having both go-first/fast and dodge on the same stat that becomes centralizing this way, especially when ranged attacks are governed by it as well.
>>98340223>>98340225>>98340226>>98340231>>98340235The only reason humanity got to where it is now is because of intelligence. And this can very easily be applied to tabletop campaigns as well if you aren't a fucking retard IRL.
>>98340262>The only reason humanity got to where it is now is because of intelligence.Also the shoulder joint being very well adapted for throwing things. By that logic you should only ever use throwing weapons in RPGs.I know you are just being retarded to get replies but let me humour you.
>>98340267>Also the shoulder joint being very well adapted for throwing things.How did that help us invent nuclear bombs?
>>98340278Because we threw stuff at animals, which made us basically invincible and live long enough so that we could eventually invent nuclear bombs.
>>98340262All this intelligence and you cannot envision role-playing a character that doesn't align with your fetishistic idea of human development.We play games here, sir.
>>98340286No, not really.
>>98340262>The only reason humanity got to where it is now is because of intelligence. And this can very easily be applied to tabletop campaigns as well if you aren't a fucking retard IRL.The "raw" number-crunching and memorization capacity Intelligence scores in D&D represents is a limited sub-set of that mostly important for the slow incremental improvements, with Wisdom governing rather a lot of the intuitive connection-building and Charisma the handling of other people. The true innovation rendering it pivotal is basically completely out-of-scope, and the few bits that are present are such horrible time-sinks that you're better off grinding XP for adventuring.This repeats in most systems. Whatever the "normal" progression mechanic is is so much faster than whatever crumbs "realistic" value of intelligence has that going with the flow of XP (or whatever it gets called) is getting you way farther.
>>98340289But it's true. If he never threw stuff we would still be monkeys sitting in trees.
>>98340296No, we wouldn't be. You're mixing up cause and effect.
>>98340305Nuclear bombs caused throwing?
>>98340192Because humans aren't the only sapient species in pretend fantasyland, likely not even the smartest ones around, and being aware of things doesn't give you an insurmountable advantage over literally every other living being in the world like it does in real life.
>>98340262So you don't play RPGs and you have no idea how the fuck this works in games, but you have some redditor pseudo-intellectual midwit opinions about the importance of IQ that you thought /tg/ would suck you off for?
>>98340262>The only reason humanity got to where it is now is because of intelligence.Intelligence is meaningless without wisdom. Look at people like Elon Musk or Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg, for example.
>>98340453>Look at people who are neither intelligent nor wise
>>98340458You don’t become a billionaire by being stupid.
>>98340468Temporarily embarrassed millionaire cope.
>>98340475
>>98340468Elon literally didn't know how to operate a toaster in college. He was just a good confidence man.
>>98340323I think he means throwing nuclear bombs causes monkeys
>>98340499See >>98340483.
Is this the HFY thread?
>>98340468The system is designed to keep the rich rich despite of their mental abilities.
>>98340192In the games I play with that stat, I already know all the answers to any question that having a high intelligence stat would answer. I also am allowed to use my real world intelligence while playing my character. It also has no mechanical benefit in combat. Basically, it's a pointless dump stat that allows me to get points in other areas with no drawback. It actually shouldn't be a stat in most games. There should be Mental Strength, Mental Dexterity, and Mental Constitution instead of Int Wis Cha because there's no way to enforce the roleplaying of traditional mental scores in game.
>>98340262>The only reason humanity got to where it is now is because of intelligence. You aren't playing humanity, or an entire species, you're playing an individual.>And this can very easily be applied to tabletop campaigns as well if you aren't a fucking retard IRL.Pray tell, are the most intelligent people the most successful by any metric? Those 180 IQ kids who graduate from Princeton and Oxford as teenagers, how many end up becoming heads of states or billionaires or hell if you want to be obsessed over evolutionary roles sire the most children?
>>98340558There's a difference between "rich" and trillionaire.
>>98340530I guess I should up my qouta of eaten babies per day
>>98340593"The rich get richer" is a phrase
>>98340262>only
>>98340192I make a retarded gorilla character, pull your arms off and beat you to death with them. Nice dumped Strength stat fucking NERD.
Writing a high number on the character sheet doesn’t actually make you smarter as a player. If it did, then sure, but it doesn’t.
>>98340453None of those people are smart. They are clinical psychopaths who are willing to do immortal things at great cost to others because they are shielded from consequence.
>>98340192Because not all games have mechanics to take advantage of it.
>>98340262The absolute ironic midwittery of this post.
>>98340635Dumb people get/stay rich by letting someone else handle their money, but they're still smart enough to know to do that. Are they as smart as the guy who actually made the money? No. Does that means every person who inherits wealth is stupid? Also no.
>>98340719>willing to do immortal things at great cost to othersI think you just wish you were smart enough to pull off lichdom
>>98340767...Shut up. I could totally be a Lich if I wanted to. I just don't want to.
Because I like to go full grug mode sometimes.
>>98340262The reason where we got to where we are now is because a lot of smart people and some exceptional people across the generations worked together, if across history humanity only ever had one Einstein-level intelligent person but they were immortal, we'd still be living in the stone age, since there's a lot of work involved in most inventions and people need a minimum level of intelligence to be helpful as technology improves.
>>98340286>>98340296Monkeys can throw shit around just fine but it hasn't done them any good.
>>98340192Because knowing is half the battle.
>>98340753>but they're still smart enough to know to do that.They usually learned that shit from their rich dads. Also they're rich enough to hire people smart enough to do all this shit for them. A poor person could know all of this and yet that doesn't matter because he would have no ability to even do any if it, because it requires already having a leg up. I can't tell if this is satirical and I'm falling for it.
>>98341106If it's not a turd monkeys can only throw stuff about 15 feet
>>98340292Your take on wisdom is actually pretty interesting as I always thought intelligence to be the stat that governs all sorts of deduction while wisdom mostly represent accumulated knowledge but I think your take makes more sense. Splitting them into two different stats feels a bit silly though because in practice number-crunching ability and more intuitional, abstract deduction are always heavily correlated but thats D&D for you.
>>98340192>Plays a system mildly harder than 5e and dies in the first session because player is retarded and thinks numbers on a page will fix that for him.
>>98341424There is no right answer. D&D defines wisdom and intelligence in contradictory and vague ways, resulting in people applying internal headcanon as to what they mean. Part of the problem is that D&D gets the real-life definition of Intelligence and Wisdom swapped, with>Intelligence is knowing how to do something>Wisdom is knowing when not to do itbeing the canon fluff D&D definition and is used in game mechanics, but also just happens to be exactly the wrong way around (which confuses the hell out of ESLs lol). And yes as you said in real life intelligence and knowledge are heavily interlinked, you can't use one without the other. In the end intelligence is the stat for arcane magic and wisdom is the stat for clerics, as part of a completely unnecessary stat split for brainpower. A lot of non D&D systems also feel the need to do this too, probably because physical prowess is also represented by multiple skills (Strength, Endurance, Dexterity).
>>98340192Are you that guy who wants to run away from every encounter and thinks everyone else is stupid for not doing the same?
>>98340192Because Education does more for you in Traveller.
>>98340453>Look at people like Elon Musk or Bill Gates or Mark Zuckerberg, for example.Dont confuse cunning with intelligence. Bill Gates admitted in his autobiography that his success was mostly due to luck. Convincing other people to invest in your business is not based on the capacity to learn, in fact, its often not based on anything you do at all.
>>98341365in reality making money is really easy and most poor people are poor [long term] because they are fucking dumb and low-agency you can make up whatever bullshit you want to justify it and cope but facts are facts
>>98340192Because the utility in doing so is low in a lot of games.
>>98342288>Bill Gates admitted in his autobiography that his success was mostly due to luckyou taking this quote at face value is proof that you are unironically a pleb
>>98341106They actually can't. They have to granny lob that turd
>>98340262This is some PEAK Redditbrain.
>>98340453>Elon Musk>intelligenceHe just buys companies smart people build and run for him. Elon is so munted he has to pay someone to play path of exile for him...
>>98340192being stupid is a fun character flaw
>>98342228>or an equivalent
>>98340192Worked with a guy that was one of the smartest mother fuckers I ever met. Scary smart where it was really fucking rare for him to not know anything about any given topic outside of sports or pop culture. He was part of the rank and file crew and when asked why he wasn't higher in position given how smart he was his answer was "If nobody listens to you, you are no better than the dumbest guy in the room." Since I heard that years ago, I noticed many times that good ideas were shot down from many people over the years that weren't part of the higher ups clique in several different jobs. Dude was right. Charisma is the power stat, not intelligence.
>>98342802except people in high positions aren't charismatic at all, so sounds like the guy was just a clueless retard
>>98340192>or an equivalentBecause there is no equivalent.Focus + Knowledge is the closest this goes, and it's one of the most useless things, since it's basically Bardic Knowledge when applied.
>>98340192Because most RPGs involve fighting and nobody likes playing the asthmatic noodle armed nerd being beaten to death by opponents who used int as a dump stat?Go play a game where your character is Steven Hawkings, going against Mike Tyson in a Cage Fight. See how much fun that is for you.
>>98342817I'm intelligent so I'll go against Mike Tyson by making a bomb and dropping it on him from a plane I built.
>>98342291>in reality making money is really easyYou sound like someone who flips pokemon cards
>>98342823The plane is gonna be built by mike tysons who learn of your plan to kill a fellow mike tyson and bite your ears off
>>98340192Charisma/Willpower is the real powerstat both in-game and in real life but I understand how an autist wouldn't be able to understand that
>>98342955What's the big hubbub about charisma? Almost no one in power is charismatic. The ceiling for charisma is being a streamer or comedian.
The only stat that ever matters is Movement and/or Initiative.Everything else is secondary to it
>>98342960And that's precisely why cheetahs rule the world.
>>98342957>Trump is not charismaticFind me a man who can make all of America and the World his bitch by shitposting and rambling on a mic with an occasional interjection of childish insults against his enemies and indulgent self-aggrandizement.Nerds could neverAnyways, sorry for bringing up politics
>>98342971I get what you mean, but the majority of politicians are dried out husks who are boring as fuck to listen to. Neither Trump nor any other guy with power get to where they are by being charismatic.
>>98342975>Jesus>Mohammed>BuddhaI think you just really underrate Charisma
>>98340566>>98340693>>98340226>>98341424I get the feeling that, due to the insurmountable barrier of "a TTRPG character can only be dumber than the person portraying it in improv, not smarter" that having "mental faculty" as a game stat is something done for tradition and short-sighted white room dev thinking than practicality.
>>98342431>He just buys companies smart people build and run for him.If those people are so much smarter, why aren't they running those companies themselves. You're pretending Elon is just dead weight profiting off everyone else's labor without explaining why everyone else seemingly tolerates this enough to make him one of the richest men alive. Do that, without resorting to "capitalism is le bad".
>>98342995I personally believe there's a merit to representing certain hard informations a character has like history knowledge that only the GM can provide you, or their capacity for accomplishing a fantastical feat that no one IRL could reasonably have knowledge of (like the creation of or interaction with true Artificial Intelligence).But unless someone at the table already knows to, say, gather saltpetre/charcoal/sulfur for a rudimentary gunpowder or some other chemical trivial, chances are you shouldn't bother giving the character a Chemistry stat.
>>98342975>Neither Trump nor any other guy with power get to where they are by being charismatic.>nobody in power got there by being charismatic Really nigga?
>>98340192I'm kinda smart in real life desu so I don't really feel the need for that to be a defining trait of someone I'm pretending to be.
>>98343042What traditional game are you playing where humans are faster than cheetahs?
>>98342812Sure they are, just not to their underlings.
>>98342802Which organ do you think charisma resides in?If you don't know how to talk to people, you're not very intelligent.
>>98342922that wouldn't make him any less correct.
>>98342995actually it's really easy to implement objective game mechanics to represent the benefit of intelligence, just like for any other character capability.
>>98343024of course you should. the higher your character's chemistry attribute, the better he is at chemistry.
>>98340192because most of the time "int" refers to education not street smarts, good luck with your masters degree in modern arts when facing a pack of goblins.....
>>98343772I imagine a chemistry masters would help quite a bit actually.
>>98343327D&D.
>>98343327Other than DnD, there are, among others:Cyberpunk (any edition)WFRPBroken CompassSavage WorldsThe WitcherTraveller (most of editions)GURPSAnd many, many more.Not sure what you were even trying to prove here. Was it was supposed to be some sort of "humans are smarter irl than cheetahs, so that means character with higher INT in game should be better than the characters who move first"?Because boy of boy, that reeks of never-game
>>98340278The field of Ballistics would only occur to organisms that already launch things at enemies. If you've never thrown a rock, you'll never dream of a better rock.
>>98343903>>98343816In literally none of those games are humans faster than cheetahs naturally. They have to use magic or technology, which both map to intellect.
>>98340262>intelligenceand opposable thumbs allowing efficient tool useand dumb old luck (sapiens as a species got close to extinction at least once due to climate shift + disease + competition from other homos)
>>98343953>and opposable thumbs allowing efficient tool useWe're not the only ones that have those though.
>>98340223ha
>>98343912>What are game stats, how do they work and how do you raise themIronicLast time I've checked, initiative/movement was either a DEX thing, a dedicated stat, a DEX/CON or even STR/CON comboBut how would you know, never playing anything and never even reading the rules, just shitposting all week long.
>>98343957yeah but it's about the synergy, other primates have the thumbs but aren't quite as smart, dolphins are pretty damn smart but can't into tool use because they're too busy playing fish
>>98343989>dolphins are pretty damn smartNot even remotely.
>>98343912>If you raise your Int, your initiative will increaseName five such games
>>98343912Literally all of those games have humans faster than cheetahs naturally.The only exceptions are earlier editions of Traveller, which is even flagged out alreadySome of those games even allow to have human characters faster than cheetahs right off the gate once you wrap up char-gen
>>98343979>>983439954e is Dex/Int, IIRC, or maybe a feat to make it based on Int. I think 3.x also had feat to add Int to initiative, because of course it does. 5e has subclasses that add Int or Cha to intiative.I know I've seen Int to intiative (or equivalent) somewhere else, too, but that was decades ago.
>>98344220Shadowrun initiative is Intelligence + ReactionBrain in Nechronica is +Action Points which is effectively initiative (game does character activation via countdown from highest Action Points)
>>98344270Ha! I thought it was Shadowrun, but it's been over 20 years since I've played it (it was on 2e then), so I wasn't sure.
>>98343586>Which organDoesn't matter because the question is not "which organ is most important". Intelligence and charisma are different traits belonging to the same organ. You of course have neither since you struggle with this distinction.
>>98343586balls
>>98340262The only reason why humanity is failing now is due to high intelligencereturn to monkey
>>98344653then where is the pee stored?
>>98344666in the charisma
>>98344666appendix, I guess?
>>98343912If technology mapped to intellect the internet would be emptier.
>>983442204e's Reflex save could be based on Dex or Int. Fortitude was Str/Con and Will was Cha/Wis, can't remember if that was how init worked in 4e, it's been a minute.
>>98340192Well, then play various maxed out intelligence characters in various games and tell how it went.
>>98344821Went pretty okay in Pathfinder.
This is the most Reddit thread I've ever seen on this board. From autistic shitflinging about how Int should or shouldn't replicate human evolutionary progress in games, to unsuccessful idiots calling Musk a retard and hating the rich, never have I sensed more fedoras in tg. This is truly a new low for board quality, and a new hight for body odour.
>>98344639Charisma is intelligence, moron.
Charisma isn't real and doesn't work in games. If you want to say something, you just say it.
>>98340223An intelligent person picks their fights carefully.
>>98344220>>98344270>>98344496>>98344735That's still just 2 (actually 1.5, since one of them has it as "OR" option) games across four postsYou need at least 3 more
>>98344921This actually work in pic related - you CAN buy a Talent (including a starting one) that uses Int instead of Dex/Str for your combat skills.Of course thing is, you can do it with ANY stat, so it's not unique to Int - it's just a walk-away to not end up stuck with non-combat character, because you've made a skill monkey, face or simply a non-combatant (and realised too late you really need combat skills)
>>98344921>>98345184And to make it clear - you only stop having penalty from dumping your Dex/Str for the sake of combat check.You are still stuck with a character that has low Dex/Str. You are still barred from useful Talents that require high Dex/Str.So it's more like a nice flavour than an actual solution - the cost of a Talent is high enough that it only ever works if you absolutly min-maxed your Int at the expense of Dex/Str/both, otherwise it's just not worth pulling (unless, again, you really want that flavour)
>>98345184>>98345242AFAIK the experience rates, it still doesn't work mechanically to be beneficialThe budget is always 15 points, the price of a talent.Ech of those talents must be bought for a different skill separately>Dexterity 1The talent is worthless.You might as well make it to Dexterity 2 (10) and buy specialization in specific combat weapon twice (4) and have 1 point to spare; you have a character that is now 3 points better in combat AND 1 point better in everything Dexterity-related (which is fucking massive)You also don't have to hoard 15 points at once>Dexterity 2The talent is still worthlessYou might as well buy (from 0) 3 ranks of skill (12) and one specialization (2) for +4 bonus. This renders any stat useless. Or you can go extreme on this and buy single rank (2) in skill and then 5 specialization ranks (10), which makes you a perfect gunslinger/sniper/machine gun operator and still left 3 points to spare. Or buy 2 ranks (6) and 4 ranks in specialization.The more specializations you plan to buy, the easier it is to do, since you are almost guaranteed to have 2 exp per session anyhow. No hoarding needed.>Dexterity 3Um... why are you trying to still use your Intelligence? At best, you're at 5, which means you are trading decent stat for marginally bigger statThis line of talents is basically a flavor for specific builds and roleplaying, but mechanically, it is utter trash. Specializations completely trivalize the game and also still fit into your character idea: you aren't some big honcho, you are just a guy who went to the range and was shown how a pistol/shotgun/LMG/flamethrower works. It's a +1 that's cheap and easy.
>>98344895is real does work
>>98344895>Games can't have bothDo you tell your players to bash the door or lift the armchair they sit on when they do strength checks?
>>98345325Talking isn't abstracted, unlike bashing or lifting.
>>98340520how does throwing monkeys cause nuclear bombs?
>>98340192peak midwit post
>>98342670Traveller also has a separate Intelligence stat.
>>98345332They are all abstracted.
>>98345902And yet it's the same shit. Mysterious.
intelligence stats aren't always the same, some try to mimic iq and nothing else, some help with learning speed but don't help with deeper understanding, some help with memory while others don't, etc.
>>98340192>put ALL points on INT>find yourself walking down a dark alley in the bad part of town because you dumped WIS>Jamal the crackhead tries to mug you for money to buy his next fix>he is not intimidated by your ability to calculate Pi in your head because you dumped CHA>you fail at running away because you dumped DEX>he manhandles you easily because you dumped STR>he shoves you against a wall and fatally breaks your neck because you dumped STA
>>98346032>>find yourself walking down a dark alley in the bad part of town because you dumped WISnot what WIS does>>he is not intimidated by your ability to calculate Pi in your head because you dumped CHACHA doesn't work in real games>>you fail at running away because you dumped DEXDEX doesn't affect movement speed
>>98346036you are very fixated on the way other stats work in real games while also completely ignoring how INT works in real games
>>98346053I know exactly how INT works in real games, along with every other statunlike you
>Midwit OP seething for 100+ replies and counting after anons pointed out everythign wrong with his midwit takeYou love to see it.
>>98340192Because I'm not smart enough to roleplay a character that's smarter than me.
>>98345852I checked the Americas, Europe and Africa and there seems to be an inverse correlation between monkeys and nuclear bombs.I think monkeys prevent nuclear bombs.Where's my nobel prize?
>>98347103We already discussed this, Mr. President, commission agreed to award you the peace prize. When you resign.
>>98340192Because the player has to have the intelligence to play that shit well. Some players are stupid a lot of the time, and most players are stupid some of the time. And the moment you fuck up like that, all that progress you've made using that high intelligence could be for naught. Think every time a character has had a ritual backfire in some fantasy story or game; they thought their intelligence made them invincible, until it clearly didn't.
>>98343586The skin and its hot wet innards
>>98346032>>98346739>>98347357>>98340292Intelligence isn't the "make right decision" number, retard.Of course you don't understand its value when you don't even know what it does.
>>98345332It's all abstracted, and you are further missing the point:The dice roll on Charisma isn't "I brain-washed them to do whatever". It's to pass a specific check of a specific test.You talking to the NPCs and GM telling you to make the roll? That's evaluating the NPCs reaction toward your character's bullshit, not the bullshit itself.Anyone who ever played any at all understands it, and yet you struggle with such base concept, so thanks for - once again - making clear you are a never-game theorycrafter
>>98347848It's not abstracted at all. Your character says exactly what you want him to say, word for word.And in fact it's impossible to abstract this part because the GM needs to know what you said in order to know how the NPC should react to it.
>>98347856>Your character says exactly what you want him to say, word for word.NTA, but that is not exactly how that works, guy.I suspect this may be a bot; it's acting stupid enough to elicit further posts, but clearly knows what to say to troll efficiently.
>>98346032>WISDndslop stat that doesn't mean anything, it was just made so we'd have 3 mental and 3 physical stats for balance reasons, it's literally just perception+willpower. In your example the guy would know, by dnd mechanics, that a part of the town is bad by a Knowledge (Local) check, which is INT, not WIS.
>>98348070Just because it makes you mad doesn't make it trolling. You know it's true, you just don't like it.>no idea what you said but you convinced him LOL>you said some retarded shit but it convinced him anyways ROFLNobody plays like this. Nobody CAN play like this even when they try because it inevitably leads to complete nonsense. Though if your only experience with the medium is reading greentext stories on reddit I can see why you might believe otherwise.
>>98343023>What is 4+4? But you aren't allowed to say 8!
>>98340278>How did that help us invent nuclear bombs?Can't invent anything if you're dead.
>>98347856I'm afraid I have to agree with >>98348143 on this one. In my experience, the CHA-uninvested muscle is perfectly able to outperform the CHA-spec'd "social expert" simply because his player IRL is more eloquent in conversation with NPCs and capable of recognizing social cues than the autistic other player who wanted to fantasize about not being autistic. It's sad, but it's true.
>>98346036>>98347548>>98348136Low-WIS posts.
>>98346739good news then, you don't have to have the same capabilities as your character, that's what the rules are for RETARD
>>98347357no they don't.
>>98347848chatgpt lmao
>>98347856nope it's abstracted
>>98348143nope it's false
>>98348248You deliberately asked me to explain why those smarter people tolerate that dead weight instead of fucking off and starting their own business.
>>98348563>>98348575>>98348581Modern /tg/, everyone.
>>98348891I didn't ask you anything, you mental midget. But asking the question>Why do smart people put up with a man with essentially limitless capital despite the fact that he's obviously a moronIs a really fucking stupid question to ask.
>>98348910My bad, I meant to type that you deliberately ignored the part where I asked you that.Regardless, endless capital does not translate to an effective business strategy. Your version of Elon Musk basically operates like this>have money>smart people show up>have more money Which fails to explain why some businesses succeed and others fail even if the same or comparable starting capital is used. The problem is that you can't simultaneously dislike Elon Musk and acknowledge that he's demonstrably an effective businessman. You're allowed to do both, you know.
>>98348902Rape.
>>98340262You don't play games.
>>98343023Kike
>>98348940NTA, but no dude seriously its that simple>have money>smart people show up>have more moneySmart people can't just conjure up infinite capital to start their own business. Since smart people still need to pay bills, its statistically a smarter use of their limited lifespan to just work for a nepo baby like Musk instead of risk getting financially raped trying to start a business from the ground up.What is so hard for you to understand about this?>demonstrably effective businessmanLol>have millions in capital from your father's emerald empire and hostile takeover of PayPal>easily secure gov't contracts due to being able to throw money at shit>employ a significant number of people, now gov't is incentivized to keep your sorry ass afloat>Business Level 100Lmao even. Hebrew business maybe.
>>98347856... and that changes the fundamental fact what the dice roll is even about... how?The GM DOESN'T need to know what you said, that's the thing. The GM needs to know what was your INTENT, not what you said (not to mention exact words).The only situation where it's actual evaluation of words, or exact words, is when you have either utterly newfag people around the table (so a greenhorn GM) who watched too many podcasts and then cock-block themselves into having those idiotic bargains with vendors in real time, rather than just moving on, or trying to have a debate club to convince some character, in both cases missing the memo they are playing a game and not doing a live improv.The dice is there for a reason. What your GM needs to know is what is your intent with the action (so what's the goal and thus what could be the results) rather than what your characters have saidCase the point:I've got a guy in my group for quite a while who never does any in-character talking. Just doesn't do it at all. Yet he's the one person the party will always designate to gather intel or pump me (the GM) for information, because he understands the principle of how the whole process operates and what he needs to know, rather than "how do I ask for it".Thus the party gets all what they need, and the guy handles it in 2-5 minutes of simply asking to-the-point questions and making checks when needed.By your logic, we should instead spend 2-3 hours talking, and I should be evaluating his actual eloquence as a player, rather than what his character is. Which is just not how this works, but it's a common greenhorn mistake, especially when coming with podcast expectations and "understanding" of game.
>>98350936Wrong. Read this: >>98348143
>>98350961I fail to see how >>98348143 relate at allMeaning that by your own logic I should now punish your for your low eloquence, since you can't make a point and just tried to short-hand it.
>>98348444Neither of them, but there is third side to it, that completely circumnavigates the issue:Actually using the stats/skills to progress and/or deliver exposition. And doing it on GM side. Your player struggling? Tell them to do a roll and deliver what they need to know. Your player already asking the right question and knows how to handle it? Sure, go with it. Player doesn't do in-character stuff? Decide intent and make it a roll if needed.Then there is the matter of not all interactions requiring a test or check in the first place, so if players are either uninterested or incapable, you can simply provide exposition that's needed and not a word more, then move on.Rocket science, I know
>>98351010>just make up an entire conversation in your own head>what could go wrong?Retard.
>>98351033>Things nobody said>More things nobody saidOkI'm not sure what you are trying to achieve, but, again, by your own logic, you are terrible conservationist and this means you are failing this discussion, for you lack personal skills to express the desires and goals of this online persona you are playingAlternatively, you're just autistic and you genuinely can't short-hand, while your autism ofc makes you unable to figure out not everyone has your malfunctions or thinks the way you do.Either way - 2/10, terrible bait, but made me reply
>>98351068Why don't you abstract the conversation like you allegedly always do, retard? Yeah, didn't fucking think so.
>>98351077You would have to state your goal. Which you actively refuse to do. I mean it's obvious that the goal is to shitpost and to pass time, but you do need to state that.Remember to roll 3d6 after that
>>98348143>no idea what you said but you convinced him LOL>you said some retarded shit but it convinced him anyways ROFLBoth of these happen in every other thread and IRL conversion.Logic and sense are a small aspect of interpersonal communication and plenty of people can dance around being social butterflies despite talking complete nonsense and being utterly vapid simply because they speak with enough confidence, tickle the subject's balls just right, or apply enough social pressure that the target agrees just to not deal with them. Now of course the GM might allow reasonable arguments to auto-succeed or feel that a bad argument deserved an auto-fail, but the dice roll can be easily be used to justify ignoring either result because of factors outside of the PC's control. Maybe NPC is already set in his opinion and is not interested in changing, maybe their confidant makes a more convincing argument, maybe your word choice triggers a negative memory, maybe they think you're hot and will agree to literally any word vomit to get into your pants, or a brawl breaks out nearby and your argument is completely lost to the chaos.Eloquence is not mind control, the dice roll should still apply because neither the world nor other people are guaranteed to be reasonable and that's where the mechanical abstraction comes in.
>>98352743no they can't, retardwatch less movies
>>98351086>>98352743>>98353050Can you faggots let the thread die instead of engaging with the troll nonstop?
>176 repliesHold on, didn't this thread crossed 190 posts yesterday?
>>98353063>Implying it's not OP engaging himselfLolLmao even
>>98355119We'll get there.
>>98353063you don't understand the troll ecosystem at all
