One of my chief frustrations with D&D 5e has been how martials need to slam all their feat choices into Ability Score Increases to rush to max their stats, because otherwise there's a higher proportion of nothing happening, and when something does happen, you do less of it.Casters can get away with just maxing their casting stat, or even having all 3's if they just focus on spells that don't require attack rolls or saving throws, and even a half-damage fireball is pretty fucking good all things considered.So, what if we just assumed everyone wants to have their relevant stats maxed, and in so doing, we just don't have stats instead?
This is legitimately a case of "have you tried not playing D&D?"
>>98357693Alright, suggest me a different system then?
>>98357699BESM 2E
>>98357699WFRP 4e.
>>98357699ACKS *Waits for fishfag to scream about it* LOL, Worlds without Number is also a good, SAKE is a lesser known but really good point buy system. Also I been liking the BETA of DC20. (Not perfect but it's better than 5e and one I think most tourist and basic bitches will like and be able to learn.)
>>98357707>>98357709>>98357731Fair enough, but I only have so much time in the day, sell me on the various ones?
>>98357736For ACKS I would suggest it if you want a system you can homebrew and it gives you the rules to basically make whatever item, class, race, monster, spell, etc you want without breaking the game. Funny enough it's biggest problem was pulling everything in 3 books. Though if you can read and don't get scare by thick books will come to love it.The Without Number Series of TTRPGs is basically a different theme but mostly the same gameplay so learn one and can go from Sci-fi to Fantasy to Post Apocalypse with little to no rules changes.Sake is a Point buy system that very Pirates of the "East Asian" islands. If you want Pirates that puts a little bit more to it's setting than copy paste pirate movie/game here. Then this is it.DC20 is basically 5e refined to the point where not of the classes are shit and martial classes have something other than just attack. (Basically you have other MP/SP to use to cast your spells or use your skills unless you're a spellblade which have both.)
>>98357736For WFRP 4e (you may also take 2e), it does a wonderful job enabling different types of campaigns that are not pure combat-simulators and dungeon crawlers. It can do intrigue well, politics, traveling, even horror.Various attributes are useful in many ways. If your problem is wizards dunking on martials: in Warhammer Fantasy, magic is powerful indeed, but can also horrible backfire, and wizard characters need a lot of time to get going and reach that level. Combat-oriented careers can be very strong past their first career level and fun to play. For 4e, I especially like the advantage system and opposed rolls, making fights very interactive.
>>98357689Or remove the stat increase feats and make casting more MAD.
>>98357699Mini SixWitchcraftJAGS Wonderland FateFirefly Breathless2400Let These Mermaids Touch Your Dick MaybeAphelion TransitNemesis
>>98357689You've been filtered- you should ignore the first ASI at least to get GWM/Sharpshooter on every martial you play. Bless, bane and advantage will give you all the modifiers to hit you need, and even if you miss more you'll do more damage per attack. Its why variant human is the best martial race btw
>>98357731>ACKS *Waits for fishfag to scream about it* Fidhfag here, I actually am curious as to why you would suggest another D&D-like with the same 6 abilities and the same sort of character building, he is specifically saying that he doesn’t want that. If you’re going to suggest more D&D then you should at least be able to suggest a real OSR game.
>>98357699What are you supposed to do any other time any TTRPG is missing something you want or has something you don't want?
>>98357693Fpbp/threadRetarded DnDrones will whine and complain anyway.
>>98357689Oh look, another thread where a retard plays DnDogshit and complains about it instead of taking 5 minutes to look up and play literally anything else. I'm sorry, but the amount of brainrot DnDogshit players have is genuinely beyond any form of help.
>>98357699Literally any system that isn't DnD or build on d20 license of theirsANY system.
>>98357689you can just do both you know. 3rd edition had a different bonus stats and feat progression and it worked better than 5e. I dont know why the made this change honestly
>>98357689>what if we just assumed everyone wants to have their relevant stats maxedAnd what is the relevant stat, exactly? What's the relevant stat for a monk? Is it wis? How about dex? How about str? Well that depends on how they're building their character. Same for Paladins, Rogues and what have you. Any class that is MAD or any build that is multi or operates outside the standard build will have preferred stats that either deviate or aren't SAD, and all of them will (and this is the important part) be subject to player interpretation on what is "important".>just don't have statsI can tell you as a GM that outside of freeform RP, this does not work. Your task as a GM is to rule fairly, and while YOU might believe you are ruling fairly, you are subject to a score of human bias that will fuck things up if you don't have stats in black and white. But even if we pretend that you are able to operate perfectly fairly, the players cannot know that unless there is a ruleset to fall back on. Yes, if you have a group that you've played with for a long time, they might trust you enough to let you freeform rules and interpretations. But that kind of group is rare, and you cannot build a system around a very rare situation.
>>98357699Prowlers and Paragons. You can be an excellent close combat fighter without investing in Might, and you can be good with ranged weapons without investing in Agility. And you don't have to invest all your resources in one thing to be good at it. You can be good at more than one thing at a time. And there are for more interesting and effective ways to defeat enemies than dealing damage, and anyone who wants to use them, can. No one is arbitrarily prevented from being relevant to the game because they picked the wrong label for their character concept.
>>98360853far more*
>>98357731>>98357780Why is your 'advice' so dumb and cancer.
What are you supposed to do any other time any TTRPG is missing something you want or has something you don't want?
>>98361479Play a game that does have what you want instead, obviously.
>>98360932Hi Fishfag. Still mad about ACKS still being around and not woke. I forget why you hate it so much, was it your game's kickstarter failed and theirs did well. Or was it simply you were told to hate it cause "white man bad?"
>>98360932Because you are a D&D that will keep actively choosing to eat shit, complaining that it tastes like shit, and then violently sperging out when someone offers you real food because it doesn't taste like the shit you're so used to. Pretty typical late-stage terminal D&Detardation.
>>98357699Well? Which of the recommendations have you tried so far?
>>98358650Play GURPS and never have the problem again
>>98357689A better solution - the one that I went for in my overhaul of 2024's classes - was a combination of the following:>Give Barbarian and Monk another ASI at 10th like Rogue>Skill proficiencies for class are no longer locked to a fixed list>All full martials get 2 tools of their choice to be proficient with, some get more like Rogue>Rogues get any 6 skills, fighters 5, barbarian and monk 4, half-casters 3, and Full casters 2>Whenever a character would get an ASI, they get the ASI feat plus another feat of their choice>Feats that Give ASIs no longer give ASIs>Epic Boons now give a +2 to the ASI they increase instead of +1>All classes get a feature at 20th that boost their key stat by +4 and its maximum to 24. Martials and half-casters get this for two stats, full casters get this for one statIt prevents martials from choosing between big numbers they need and cool abilities from feats they want, and with the slew of other changes I've made makes it so casters and martials are on more even footing in general.
>>98366216wow, look at this bullshit you did instead of just playing a game that works with no house rules out of the box, lol
>>98364233I'm reading up on WFRP2e because a friend had the pdfs, looks decent so far
>>98366257No game does that except the ones that I make myself. That's just a fact. There is no perfect TTRPG except the ones you make yourself.And really, most of those changes are just straight up copied from my own system, though that has stricter progression about boosting stats and skills between full martials/half casters/full casters; full martials get the most stat and skill increases, half-casters have a middle ground, full casters get the least stat and skill increases, and the half-caster archetypes use half-caster progression since I don't do the faggotry D&D does where you have to wait until level 3 to get all your features, sometimes later. You get all your abilities up front, and they just improve at later levels (5/10/15/20 for core class, 6/11/16/20 for archetypes). But again, unless I made it from the ground up myself, I am going to institute houserules and homebrew in any system I run or play. For example, I mostly like Prowers & Paragons, but its dice system is shit, more complex than it needs to be, so rather than looking at e very other number it's easier to simplify the dice system to a success range instead of evens being successes or what have you.If you use GURPS/HERO/any system that has a ton of splats with rules you add to basically make your own system, those don't count btw.
>>98366086GURPS is a toolkit, not a TTRPG. By the time you have compiled something that sort of works using GURPS, you could have designed your own TTRPG from the ground up and it will be 5000% better than anything you could have made in GURPS.
>>98357689>So, what if we just assumed everyone wants to have their relevant stats maxed, and in so doing, we just don't have stats instead?I think Break (OSR-like with western animeish art) did something like this. It still has stats, but you don't assign them, you just get stats from your class.
>>98366384this is false btw
>>98366266sure bud. lmao
>>98366632???
retard
>>98357689Because in good games, there are legitimate, non-trivial player incentives to not raise your stats to the trait cap, and there are no dump stats regardless of character concept, every stat being useful for all characters.
>>98366392oh no no no i will have to spend maybe a weekend browsing through the core book and choosing between the options i want to include in the game >this is somehow the same as making an entire system from scratchhave any of you retards ever opened a book before?
>>98366216>All full martials get 2 tools of their choice to be proficient with, some get more like Rogue>Rogues get any 6 skills, fighters 5, barbarian and monk 4, half-casters 3, and Full casters 2Once again, Ranger is fucked over by not being good enough at either Martial or casting.
>>98368372>He plays rangerroru rmao
>wah wah muh martials thread #5.73e+8if you want a game where magicless normies are on-par with people that can, oh, i don't know, fuck with the fundamental rules of reality by study, talent or divine (or hellish) favor then either play a dirt farmer simulator campaign or some shitty ching chong weaboo game where the "martials" end up doing as much magic bullshit as the "fullcaster" you're whining about
Nah.
>>98361890No such thing as a game that has everything for everyone.
>>98368430u sound buttblasted
And no one said that, retard.
>>98357699>Similar enough to D&D you won't scream and cry in terror and can adjust easilyWarhammer Fantasy Roleplay Shadow of the Demon Lord >D20 but a completely different genre and game style than Dungeons and Dragons Mutants & MastermindsConan >Completely different both mechanically and genre wise Call of Cthulhu (investigation/horror)Embryo Machine (mecha) Old World of Darkness: Vampire the Masquerade 20th anniversary edition, Hunter the Renegade New World of Darkness: Changeling the Lost, Deviant the Renegade Fantasy Flight Games Dark Heresy
>>98357699>Alright, suggest me a different system then?Sertorius RPG, or Wandering Heroes of the Ogre Gate, it's the same system.Besides your innate talent for the different types of magic (or different types of wuxia techniques and spells in WHotOG) there's no stats. Everything is done through skills, including magic. You wanna be able to act as a healer? You need innate talent in the type of magic that has those spells, you need to know the spells, and then you roll using your skill in medicine.
>>98357699Legends in the Mist
