Running this game using the zoned combat rules is the most fun I've ever had running a game. Took a few sessions to understand how to make encounters that don't get BTFO by the players, but once you get the feel for it (and impliment damage rollover to health), everything runs insanely smooth.
>>98363255Rage of the Goblin King was a lot of fun to run, despite it not actually being finished yet. The exploding skeletons in the first book’s tomb were very surprising for my players.
>>98363255I've seen a handful of systems using zones, but I've never played one that had those. What are the pros and cons according to you ?
>>98363384Pros:>Faster turns, since players aren't micromanaging each action on a square by square basis, and movement typically boils down to moving to the next adjacent spot (more on this in Cons, because some people might take issue with some workarounds for increased/reduced movement effects)>You can make more elaborate combat scenes with much less table space needed>Allows plenty of wiggle room for more narrative or environmental interraction without penalizing the players/npcs>Order and positioning is still very clear, so you don't run into the situation where you have to ask the GM every round, "Who can I hit with X, Y, or Z?" It's all there for you to see and track>The physical game space can be as simple as using index cards to represent zones, or full on terrain pieces to act as a designated spot, and any mix between>Verticality is much easier to measureCons:>Any form of abstraction is going to need some variation of GM fiat to work>Not all the rules are 100% defined for Zones, so area of effects that impact a 2x2 to 4x4 area will need some houserulings to function (I have my own methods that work perfectly for me)>Movement speed increase/decrease requires a new type of role called a Speed Roll if you don't have enough movement to make it to the next zone, but still have some movement remaining (basically a 50/50 chance with a modifier equal to your remaining movement)>Requires PCs to actually engage with the zones to get the most out of them, which requires the GM provide things in each zone for players/npcs to utilize>GM may have to get creative and fiat reasons to force people to move around, because PCs will still tend to stay in place and trade blows unless it is somehow beneficial not to do soGranted, some of these are problems for ALL methods of play, but that's thw quick down and dirty in my opinion.
It really seems like a system that I'd love to play.How's the gish game?Is it something that only geta going after you get a second class or are there initial classes that can already dip their toes from the get go?I think demon lord had the apellguard and the adept that could pull it off?
>>98363766With supplemental material, every Novice Path gets access to magic as an option at varying degrees. Mage and Priest get it automatically, and Rogues have it as a specialized option. Fighters require a the Fae supplement and have the weakest of the 4 as far as benefits for gishing, but Fighters are also just innately fucking good on their own. The Power system is gone, and your potential to gish with virtually zero prerequisites needed to mix & match Path styles between Novice/Expert/Master options, allowing for a lot of flexibility, since what tier of Path largely decides what tier of spell you get in accordance. Spells are seperate by tiers as well, so you could choose two pure Martial Novice/Expert paths, then hard pivot to a caster Master Path and start aquireing Master tier spells at no loss.The only hangup with this system is that damage focused Novice spells tend to fall off as a gish, but swapping Novice spells to more utility/buff options are always a good choice to make.
>>98363968I always tend more towards buffing, utility, and healing over damage for for my gish type characters, so that sounds pretty good ro me.
Zombies in this game are fucking awesome, and being able to reskin any monster in the game as a zombie is all the better.
>>98363255I thought Weird Wizard got rid of zone rules and went back to Shadow's yard rules
>>98370338Zone rules are still included as an option in the GM book
>>98372720If I remember, the creator really wanted zone rules to be the default, and the community made him cry uncle
>>98363732Appreciate the nice breakdown
>>98375667It was mostly a case of swapping to grids as default because its the expectation of this sort of game. There wasn't really any push for it from playtesters. The game was always shipping with both though
>>98363255Would you say its generally just an improvement over Demon Lord at this point? And are these Zoned Combat rules in the core books? My players agreed to swap to another game but I've always wanted to go back (we were doing trial runs of games until we found one we really liked)
>>98378111It's 90% better than DL in most ways, but suffers from number bloat a bit where DL does not. It's for a good reason, but it exists nonetheless.Zoned rules are in the GM book.
>>98363732Do you mind sharing your house rules you use to assist with rulings in zoned combat? Also do you have any advice on teaching it to players?
>>98380679Basically boils down to this, but you gotta be somewhat flexible given the effect:>A size 2, 3, or 4 area of effect where you designated a target before casting can hit a number of targets whose size total equals the size of the spell or effect being used. If a single target is a size larger than the size of the spell/effect, it will only hit that eligible target.Example: A Size 3 bomb goes off in a zone with [1x] Size 2 enemy and [3x] Size 1 enemies. The bomb can hit a size total equal to 3, so the controller of the bomb can choose to hit either● [1x] Size 2 + [1x] Size 1 = 3or [3x] Size 1 enemies = 3>If a target is in base contact with another eligible target, all eligible targets within that group must be accounted for the size total before moving onto additional targets. The controller of the effect may choose which targets are added to the "pile" first.Example:A Size 3 bomb goes off in a zone with [2x] Size 1 enemies all in base contact with Bob the Fighter, and [1x] Size 2 enemy isolated on the same zone. The controller of the bomb can hit either,● The [2x] Size 1 enemies + Bob the Fighter = 3● The [1x] Size 2 enemy + [1x] Size 1 enemy from the group in base contact>A size 2, 3 or 4 aura coming off a creature or objectWorks almost exactly the same as above, except in this case the source of the aura always counts itself as part of the resolution, but is never counted when creating the "pile," and all eligible targets must be in base contact with the source of the aura.Sorry if this is too wordy, but it basically boils down to effect size = how many total creatures/objects based on their size total are caught up in it. Count groups first if applicable, but also be ready to adjudicate what you feel makes sense for the given moment. The good news is that this is only an issue for a handful of options in the book.
>>98380854Nice rules anon. Seemed complicated when I first read through it, but on second read it's pretty elegant.
>>98381105It's certainly something that's easier to explain with a physical model to show, but I found it works well without sacrificing both the chaotic nature Area of Effects brings, while still giving the user enough control to feel like they can use it tactically when oppertunity is there.I also cannot stress enough that with zones, you don't want every zone to have some form of interracial setpiece (sometimes an empty space is the feature itself), but you should try to have something in most zones to be toyed with.
>>98382288>interracial setpiece
>>98382453*interactiveYou know what, never mind. Interracial set pieces it is.
