>"Can I make an x check to know y before I do this?">"No. Tell me what you want to do. I'll tell you what happens next.">"B-but how will I know what's going to happen if I can't roll first!?">"You don't. You just have to make a choice and live with the consquences.">"But that's so unfair!!">"Life isn't fair. Now tell me what you want to do before I skip your turn."
>>98375078i dont get it
>>98375078God forbid you use Intelligence to get context before actions using it as intended
Wow I guess that guy you imagined would be less cool than another guy you imagined.
OP is a tard but I can guess what he's getting at, because I agree with him from the other side of the DM screen (or maybe I'm just projecting who knows) - namely, that this is about monster/trap identificationWhat exactly will happen if you go across the bridge? Who knows, all you can tell is that it's risky; the exact risks are still opaque to you. What exactly will happen if you get that monster grab you? Who knows, all you remember is that it's poisonous. Etc, etc. The general expectation is that you should be able to roll your knowing skill to know things, but realistically life is full of opaque situations where the most you can know is that it's unknowable
>>98375171>>98375078This is the kind of shit GMing that leads to risk-averse players who never do anything because they know you're a malicious actor and will fuck them over for your own amusement.Would really go more like:>Can I make an X check to get information about Y to prepare for Z?>Lol no life is full of le opaque situations because le realism, tell me what you want to do tee hee>Okay, never mind, we're not going to bother with Z, we're going back to town to find something else to do.
>>98375227People trying to act like "based gigachad grogs" always oust themselves as nostalgia rotten dumbasses who blindly worship old conventions while understanding neither reasons for them nor the consequences of them in play. And 3/4th of these conventions lean towards training the players to be extremely cautious, uninvested in any individual characters they play, hyper-focused on loot and XP and in general playing like the old stereotypes of powergamers, minmaxers and munchkins.
>>98375817A wojack is essentially the universal sign that the poster is very angry.
>>98375171>all you can tell is that it's risky; the exact risks are still opaque to youI feel that systems which include skills like civil engineering are implicitly intended to involve skill checks where a civil engineer may apply their specialized knowledge to assess the stability of a piece of infrastructure (or equivalent source of risk).
>>98375824In the similar vein, the people trying to represent themselves with gigachad meme unironically are almost always fishing for validation.
>>98375078>just do what your character would do>what does my character know?>you're not allowed to ask thatretard
>>98375839What about people that portray themselves as the basedjack and the other as the chad?
>>98375078Who are you quoting?
>>98375171What do you mean, agree with him? Nothing was asserted.
>>98375227>play game where you can be whatever you want to be>be a pathetic cowardPlease leave the hobby forever.
>>98375100Steve, just make a decision. It's been your turn for 20 minutes now, the rest of us want to play too.
>>98377025kek, I didn't even include a pic in my post. I guess the DM awarded me two party hoes for my comment
>>98375817That is because those 'old conventions' were created FOR CONVENTIONS, where you sit down, get handed a premade pc, and play for an hour or 2, then leave.They do not work at a in-house group, and weren't made to.
>>98377030Sometimes if posts happen simultaneously, the server gets confused and transposes or duplicates images.
>>98375078>Make a decision!>Where are we? What is my character trying to accomplish? Please juts give me some details because it feels like I'm in a formless void with completely zero information!>MAKE A DECISION YOU SCRUB!
In Pathfinder 2e, Recall Knowledge is one of the listed actions available to all players and you're expected to use it, especially for more difficult encounters.
>>98377034Honestly, the convention play obsessed weirdos are the same breed as tournament obsessed wargamers and CCG players. Half of their points about how the games should be run are the roleplaying equivalent of guys screeching about how all their wargames need perfectly symetrical L-shaped ruins for the terrain.
It's best to just not play with slowfags. Even one of these weirdos can ruin a campaign. Last time I was in DnD as a player it took us a whole 3 hour session to get through a 4 room cave system. For mild cases you can just shame them by saying something that will make the other playoids laugh. "How deep is this lake?" "Do you want to swim to the bottom and find out?" For combat, get a cheap little 30 second hourglass from Amazon. You don't get to hem and haw about what you want to do if there's a monster trying to bash your skull in. And playoids need to be trained on how to manage time better, eg by planning their moves during others' turns and writing their spells/abilities down if they can't remember them.
>>98377268It's not even what you said, it's that they are trying to force a set of ideas in to an area where it simply was never meant to apply.Even wargamers could expect a reasonable amount of balance between factions to facilitate a round robin tournament style of play; it is merely an extension of the core gameplay conceit.Forcing convention style play in to a home table game doesn't even make sense or serves for a better game.
>>98375100Men act. Hesitation is for foids and children.
>>98377006>Pathetic cowardThat's retard cope. You're the kind of dumbfuck who would throw himself off a cliff without any means to stop yourself safely and die because your dipshit friend dared you to. Either stop railroading my character by making them act like a retard and not do any research or attempt to discern the dangers ahead, or fuck off from projecting your retardation onto my character.
>>98377404Figuring out whether a fall is survivable before jumping off a cliff to getaway from, I dunno, a horde of orcs pursuing you or someshit isn't hesitation, it's tjinking things through. Men also think things through, anon.
>>98375086The newest crop of players use dice rolling as a metagaming crutch, I think that shit is lame.
>>98375227I would take risk-averse over narratively blind which is the status quo atm
>>98377030the DM also apparently afflicted you with hover hands
>>98377150This but unironicallywere not here to roll dice, were here to play a game that sometimes requires dice rolls
>>98377404>as you step forward the trap activates>a spiked arm springs from the wall impacting you in the groin >roll 1d4 to which, if any, part of your genitals remain intact
>>98377319You can't answer how deep a lake is? LOL
>>98375171>all you can tell is that it's risky; the exact risks are still opaque to youThat doesn't make any sense. Unless you have a spidey sense that gives you a vague feeling of impending danger, you either identify particular (potential) risks or are unaware of them. "The bridge looks dangerous" is absurd. Is it going to bite me? Collapse? Trip me up? "Danger" is not an outcome, it's an abstract category of outcomes.
>posters ITT can't readEvery single time. Without fail. For a hobby that revolves so much around reading you'd think more people would actually... y'know, read.
>>98375078>"I'll take "shit that never happened" for 400
If we're talking about not allowing rolling before you commit to the action is perfectly legit.If we're talking about "Hey my character is a grand scholar of magic, can I ID what runes are by sight before shoving my hand into the blue glowing thing" then unless it's explicitly a split-second decision then OP is in the wrong.Though telling the player "You have no idea, which is all the more concerning given your expertise" is also perfectly legit.Fairly simple.
>>98379567>he thinks 4chan icons are reddit symbolsgtfo newfag
>>98375227Nah, too many players are optimizing faggots who try to wring every ounce of advantage they can instead of actually role playing or just making a decision and risk making a suboptimal play. Too many players treat ttrpgs as video games where they want to save scum.
>>98375078What a silly scenario, why are we acting like rolling a skill check takes half an hour?Something more reasonable would be >I have (relevant skill) trained, may I roll to leverage my character's abilities to assess it's credible impact on this situation?>Yes of course, as your GM I cannot reasonably expect you to visualize the technicalities of the real physics of masonry and it's relevance to this situation, and making a decision without that critical information would clearly lead you to a decision that would be inverse to your character's line of thinking>Ok cool, glad we could be collaborate to create an approximation of our adventure more closely aligned with the shared world we inhabit, just as this system was painstakingly designed around doing>I respect you as a person, my articulate and reasonably well mannered GM who gives up time to paint a living world for us>That's wonderful, I respect you as well my dedicated and humble player who gives up time to meaningfully inhabit this world I dutifully simulateand then everyone clapped, they went out to eat later and it was a good time
>>98378414No one in the thread failed to read, of course.
>>98379614Trying to make good decisions is roleplaying, moron.
>>98375078Checks to know things?Bitch, I only roll checks for hit location, defensive effectiveness/reactions, or secondary effects, and all of those are unknowns until their outcomes.I play games, not narrative systems.
>>98375078Amateur.
>>98377515Perceiving things with your character's senses is the opposite of metagaming, obviously.
>>98379567>yotsoybayou lost, oldtroonpolGODS run this board now
>>98379657this.the key is to remember that this is all a game of "what if" and "would you rather"
>>98377735Can you just look at a lake and know how deep it is? Answering that question requires specialized prior knowledge or tools. If you'll accept, "It Appears deep enough to swim in with a gradual slope", then that's fine, but even knowing that requires the characters to enter the lake and trigger whatever event you had planned based on them entering the lake.
>>98381412Yeah, I can, retard
>>98377319Parties spending half an hour arguing over what to do over a door with a weird face carved into it is one of the best parts of D&D.
It really isn't.
>>98380971Yeah, that player is an amateur. If he was good, he wouldn't have asked to roll - he'd simply ask what's around and infer potential consequences from there.
Nope.
>>98375944NTR fetish aficionados.
