This is the safest, blandest, most corporate shit I've ever seen and it's attempting to be "punk"
>>98403052Well there is a reason that the term “safe edgy” exists. Basically safe in the sense that msm and corpos are okay with it so it isn’t truly edgy.Maybe “safe punk” should be a thing.A lot of warhammer 40k is safe edgy because a lot was sanitized since rogue trader.I think the biggest edgy thing in ttrpgs was that vampire transvestite nazi from an old WoD book if I remember correctly. It was a character to be a middle finger to everyone.
>>98403052What am I looking at? Goygryms?
>>98403052Eh, I had fun with my Eschers.I made them drug pedalling catty short-sighted out of control psycho-bitches with no redeeming qualities besides their fat greasy tits.Which is pretty much how they are characterized anyway.And of course, the genetic degradation of their clan's Y chromosome is categorically their own fault, and they will probably never recover from it, and reproducing via test tube babies isn't going to work forever, as their genes are probably continuing to unravel.>>98403068This is however, quite true.
>>98403068>I think the biggest edgy thing in ttrpgs was that vampire transvestite naziDoktor Totentanz
>>98403111Thanks brother!The doktor would never be mentioned in modern World of Darkness TTRPG related publishing unless there are a bunch of profuse apologies and warnings stamped everywhere because he is maximum problematic in a timeless way.
>>98403131Tzimisce were always huge freaks, Totentanz was just the pinnacle of freakdom. Myca Vykos was also an evil Tzimisce tranny but didn't get expunged from the lore. Reminder that Heinrich Himmler was embraced as a Tremere, turned out to be an asshole diabolist, and rounded up all the Neo-Nazi Anarchs in Berlin them drove them to Warsaw never to be mentioned again.
>>98403052The problem is once something becomes "Punk." We see karens, corpos and activists try to change it to make it a "safe edgy" to fit their views and remove things they don't like.
>>98403111>vampire transvestite naziThats disgusting, is he single?
>>98403266hes ugly as shit even by tranny standards so yeah probably
>>98403052How did it effect your last game session?
>>98403052Almost all punk is safe, bland, corporate shit.
>>98403307bold of you to asume he plays
>>98403052The actual punk girls are now to male gazey to be inspiration.
True punks follow all the rules
>>98403307They weren't as entertaining to shoot thirty blaze weapons at. Also chemsynth never went off.
>>98403068Even rogue trader was pretty safe edgy. The most edgy 40k ever really got were the books by Ian Watson>A few tormentors had shed items of armour, exposing grotesquely mutated rampant groins, their organs of pleasure bifurcated and more, with squinting eyes sprouting from them, and with drooling lips.>Others had no need to shed armour. Chaos Spawn had materialized: wolf-sized creatures with legs of spiders and bodies of imps, with questing tentacles and phallic tubes. Jaq himself almost believed that he was hallucinating. A snake-like umbilical cord connected these spawn to the swollen groin-guards of their master – who stood back, roaring and whinnying with delight, as they guided the spawn in the ravishing of their captives, soaking up the sensations of these roving external members.
>>98403131The Doktor was exclusively referred to using she/her pronouns, so cry about it. WoD was woke for its time and it's woke for this time too.
>>98403052Like all punk desu
>>98403068Why does it have to be "true" edgy? Is that an inherently desirable thing? I'm always confused by the way that people talk about "edge" and "punk" stuff.
>>98406959Yes, it's about verisimilitude. To give an example, look at what happens when Chaos Marines slaughter innocents. You never see the heads of children or women on their trophy racks, it's always dudes, or generic 'guys'.It's same as when you see women in general, they never really get fucked-over; Even when they lose, it's explicitly a moral victory with some dignity.
>>98406959culture war brain rot has convinced them that if something doesn't offend the sensibilities of anyone who has sensibilities, it's wokeshit for liberals
>>98407031>if something doesn't offend the sensibilities of anyone who has sensibilities, it's wokeshit for liberalsThis is always how punk and counter-culture have worked, except with different ad libbed words in place of "wokeshit" and "liberals"
>>98407031>why would you want a setting that literally invented the term grimdark to be grim and dark chud
>>98403052Why are you buying GW shit instead of printing cheesecake? Why do you care about shiny new thing when you already have the old rules? Or are you a newfag?
>>98407041The moment it can be defined as punk, it's no longer punk.
>>98407063I have difficulty finding good cheesecake minis that would work in the 40k universe and I also like them to be heroically scaled.My tastes are very specific being another problem.If you got a list of models like those I’ll be happy.>>98407031The best punk to be always was for offending everyone that’s why I like doktor totentanz. Maybe the time is right now for characters like that one to return.
>>98407073ash cats by 55mm and the generic punk girls by Ghamak, I kitbashed bits before printing, weapons are from a bunch of different 40k bit stl packs.
>>98403111Of course it had to be a Tzimisce.
>>98407090Thanks I’ll screenshot and look later.
>>98406579>The most edgy 40k ever really got were the books by Ian WatsonEven that wasn't edgy, that was just annoying to read. God his writing sucks, I'm glad he's dead.
>>98406988>It's same as when you see women in general, they never really get fucked-over; Even when they lose, it's explicitly a moral victory with some dignity.? I agree with your former point, but what are you talking about? Sisters of battle are dying all the time in animations to make space marines look better. I mean, if you want a specific example, recently GW made a warhammer+ series about a sister of battle group fighting orks, all of them die except one, and most of them ignominiously (one of them stabs an ork in the head with a power sword, and while she's jamming the sword into his brain, he still manages to stab her through the ribs with one of his spare teef), one is in melee too long with an ork and there's a bit where it manages to grab her arm and easily breaks it because the reactor on her armour is disabled, etcUnless you mean they don't get raped when they lose? In which case 40k has never really done that, even when it was willing to mention rape. The closest I can think of to a situation like that is Valkia when she was human being taunted with being turned into a concubine by a slaaneshi daemon prince, and she proceeded to cut his head off anyway
>>98407194how many of them are black? is that the SOB specific show where the first 20 seconds is thick with soufrican accent?
>>98407200completely unrelated to the topic at hand, anon, but one of them is black, and she's the one who gets stabbed to fuck by the ork as i mentioned and slowly bleeds out. though, she was fine as fuck, would bangi also forgot to mention that the protagonist is dragged screaming with terror into a penitent engine for her failures when the rest of the sisters arrive
>>98407194>all of them die except one, and most of them ignominiouslyDying in the Emperor's service is explicitly a moral victory with some dignity. Prove me wrong.
>>98403052Large corporations by definition can’t be Punk anonWhat were you expecting? If you care about that as a metric, find and support independent artists or produce your own work
>>98407252I don't know dude, the way they basically interred the last girl into unending torture as >>98407251 mentioned doesn't seem like much if a moral victory at all.If anything it shows that the honourable sacrifices of the virtuous does nothing but perpetuate the existence of the corrupt and self defeating corpse that is the imperium. Hardly a moral victory if you ask me.
>>98407251Trash for degens. Anyone who watched past that opening accent is fucked in the head.
>>98407289>If anything it shows that the honourable sacrifices of the virtuous does nothing but perpetuate the existence of the corrupt and self defeating corpse that is the imperiumThat's the trouble with not dying, the unflinching war machine considers it a personal failure within the logic of its own universe. Hell, any given Sister that meets such a fate might even be zealous enough to think she deserves it. That's the depth of the tragedy and it's an important one to communicate because it's painfully realistic.
>>98407290gimme chocolate
>>98407252They get killed by big green retards who mangle them before they die, they don't even beat the orks (the orks leave to go back to armageddon instead because they hear the New Edition is coming up), slowly bleeding out cause you got stabbed in the ribs with a fucking tooth is lacking in dignity, and while the second sister to die does so in a sacrifice of holding orks off to bomb them, the sacrifice is rendered completely meaningless because the sister novitiate who is saved is punished for surviving with being interred in the penitent engine. Also, their objective is the delivery of nothing more than a martyr's skull - everyone who dies did so for a pointless holy relicIf you want to do the gay 'everyone who dies for the imperium actually dies with some dignity' then you can go ahead I guess, but watching it all their bluster was just hot air in the end and it was pretty apropos. A rule of thumb is I know if people complain that the ending is 'too dark', then it's an improvement to 40k's terrible streak of fluff with 8th and 9th edition
>>98407329>slowly bleeding out cause you got stabbed in the ribs with a fucking tooth is lacking in dignityI don't know man, that's kinda what happens when you fight the comedy faction.>everyone who dies did so for a pointless holy relic>If you want to do the gay 'everyone who dies for the imperium actually dies with some dignity' then you can go ahead I guessAnon that's kind of the point. They're choosing to die for this within the schema of their own beliefs. You may not take it seriously as an observer but it's 100% serious within their worldview and that's more than enough.>A rule of thumb is I know if people complain that the ending is 'too dark', then it's an improvement to 40k's terrible streak of fluff with 8th and 9th editionThat's fair.
>>98407356Is it not lacking in dignity to get mogged by the comedy faction who are having a good time as you suffer? I think orks are hard to balance because too much of their stuff that is like "orks are SCARY" ends up being the war of the beast-era terrible lore or mossacannibalis guro type stuff. I think orks are silly but to be fighting them can be scary and the show did a good job of depicting that imo
>>98407329>everyone who dies did so for a pointless holy relicsadly no one told the sisters it was pointless.
>>98407365>Is it not lacking in dignity to get mogged by the comedy faction who are having a good time as you suffer?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN8geCTlZOoLooks how Space Marines get treated by Orks in this trailer. It definitely isn't any better.
>>98407394look anon, i'll take any excuse to watch the dawn of war 3 trailer, but it's not exactly 'lore accurate' either or whatever. it's the best 40k animation ever though so that's worth a lot
>>98403052Those are some ugly ass mohawks
>>98407323and you couldn't even bag a troon if you tried
>>98406959Well basically edginess is an insurance policy. If your art is edgy enough, it'll never be picked up by mainstream society, by big corporations that will steal your entire aesthetic off you and sell it to a mass market with the edges filed. That way, the subculture stays within a clearly defined community and remains alive via that community, with DIY shit, zines, burned discs, etc. This only works in a limited capacity however. As Adorno and Debord wrote, capitalism has a nearly endless potential of reinventing itself by subsuming its critique and these marginal communities into itself. Punk music was infamously taken over by big labels looking to sell an aesthetic for example. In ebbs and flows, capitalism is always ready to abandon any moral principles to be able to commodify more and more of human existence. The whole edge thing worked for a while, until it didn't. Now pretty much every subculture you can think of has been reduced to nothing but an Instagram aesthetic, a means for endless consumption. The only true subcultures that still exist are those that pose an active threat to the system itself and are so incapable of being coopted. Basically Islamist terrorists, DIY trans circles and those neonazi militias in Idaho. Also juggalos, because that subculture is so hopelessly homeless white trash coded it would take a truly immense rebranding effort by some corp to sell it to suburbia.
>>98409937To bring this back to the topic at hand, GW can only really be characterised as "punk", "edgy" and "subcultural" for a pretty short time, I'd say between 1977 when it started publishing White Dwarf and around 1984, when Ansell took over the company and moved the whole operation to Nottingham. And even then you always feel like there was some level of ironic detachment from the D&D/LOTR fed nerds at GW from the punk scene proper. 1985-91 is sort of the swan song of the subcultural GW, with the flourishing of WFRP 1e, which is very punk. However in 1991, the whole company was bought out by Kirby in a management buyout, leberaged by private equity. It took a few years to throw out all of the oldheads, but I think we can pretty confidently say any and all true edginess that's not just "le hopeless grimdark forever war" was gone from then on. It's very telling that pretty much everything that makes warhammer successful was written up before 1991.
>>98407439So what makes Warhammer+ series any more canonical or lore accurate than Dawn of War?
>>98409937I think you nailed it anon. I would probably try to summarize it like the "grok summarize it" meme so the average joe that happens to be dumber than me can understand, but you nailed it well.>>98409987>It's very telling that pretty much everything that makes warhammer successful was written up before 1991.I think the other part is that they were just having fun the whole time. Didn't know they were going to make a huge thing. Was there anything genuinely extremely good post 1991? What make it good compared to the foundations and the pre-1991 stuff?
>>98411200dawn of war made up it's own chapter to avoid having to deal with the problems of lore accuracy. it's not that stuff in there isn't mostly compatible, it's just also a seperate thing
>>98411222Blood Ravens were officially canonized in Space Marines 4th Edition, which was published several years before DoW2 came out.
>>98411229>the introduction in question
>>98411301They're sitting nice and pretty right next to First Founding Chapters on the same page.
>>98411325And that still doesn't change the fact that they have nothing but a color scheme. They are not some mainstay, recognizable entity they have colors and and 3 lines of traits, literally nothing else. They are entirely a blank slate to be iterated upon, not some known fact of the settingAnd that's besides the point that Dawn of War came out before the codex did
>>98411333>They are entirely a blank slate to be iterated upon, not some known fact of the settingWere, Anon, were those things. Dawn of War 2 gave them a tremendous lore dump and since then they have been featured in other 40k products like Space Marine and Tacticus. They're a mainstay of the franchise now and are approaching 20 years of being such.
>>98411342>mainstaynot after dow3 they weren't, they were effectively memoryholed
>>98411353I don't know. Not everybody gets to be Ultrasmurfs featured in every god damned GW adjacent product in existence.
>>98403068Capitalism always quickly finds a way to squeeze profit out of everything, including anti-capitalistic movements, twisting them into soulless facsimiles that exists only as products and their adherents into just another group of customers.Punk is the most shining example of that, but it applies to everything. Anyone trying to be punk these days will inavertedly at least partially base their idea of what punk is or looks like on the idea of punk and punk branding sold my the mainstream.And there's nothing authentic in just taking that and trying to make it edgier either
>>98411333They have like 6 pages of lore in the Deathwatch sourcebooks (Honour the Chapter book to be specific IIRC) and those have nothing to do with video games and were said to be canon unless contradicted
>>98403068>I think the biggest edgy thing in ttrpgs was that vampire transvestite nazi from an old WoD book if I remember correctly. It was a character to be a middle finger to everyone.Nah. Look how angry Rudi makes everyone.
>>98411325Well, they are loyalist Thousand Sons, so that's technically accurate.
>>98413191Rudi isn't edgy he's a Gary Stu.
>>98413306To the clinically retarded cultist, people going "That's stupid" is proof they're right and it needs to be done more.
>>98403131Don't forget Pimp, the backhanding!
>>98412289The anti-capitalists collapse because they don't really believe anything and are just protesting that they aren't doing well. So as soon as anyone gets a following they can monetise, they will.
>>98403052We've moved from genuinely cool to edgy to safe-edgy and now we've arrived at just safe-gay, and it's just lame and gay.
>>98411209>I think the other part is that they were just having fun the whole time. Didn't know they were going to make a huge thing. Was there anything genuinely extremely good post 1991? What make it good compared to the foundations and the pre-1991 stuff?It's a load of bollocks though, because the same people writing the pre-1991 stuff were the ones writing the post-1991 stuff all the way up until the early oughts, and while Kirby's buyout was undoubtedly in hindsight the Original Sin of GW's eventual enshittification only the most terminally crusty fauxgrogs and poseurs pretend everything instantly became bad the moment it happened, or that the background fluff was the first victim of enshittification.Who wrote pre-1991 40K? Largely, Rick Priestly. Who wrote the 2nd Edition "tidy up" of the setting(essentially amalgamating all the material from WD and supplements from RT)? Largely, Rick Priestly. Who oversaw the development of 3rd & 4th Editions' fluff? Whadda ya know, Rick Priestly. And would you care to guess, dear anon, when the enshittifcation of GW started to wipe its arse with the background fluff? If you guessed >5th Edition 40K, in which Rick Priestly had basically no involvement having been "promoted" into managerial irrelevance, and after which he quit the company in dismaythen congratulations, you're marginally less retarded than the average RT fan.The funniest part of all this is that the entire whingefest here is based on the state of Nucromunda, which is explicitly a huge ground-up rework of N95 driven by the tastes and preferences of Andy Hoare...who is a massive simpering RTfag who wanted to remake Necromunda in the image of its RT-era unpublished predecessor Confrontation.
>>98403052>This is the safest, blandest, most corporate shit I've ever seen and it's attempting to be "punk"An accurate description of the modern punk, then. "Rebellion" as approved of by corporations, celebrities and major political parties.
>>98403052what makes it different from GW punk (1995)?
>>98413327It just sticks in my craw. Every other sentence is a self contained Gary Stu trait.>new to being a vampire but already leading older vampires>breaks the masquerade habitually without consequence>apparently adjudicates norms in an entire city community>clan choice is literally a gay top joke>allegedly elicits "fear" in european princes despite the fact euro kindred are old as fuck and some of the longest entrenched kindred in the worldHis entire character is based on the presupposition that he's already won by being a snowflake.
>>98407323She's the sort of black women they should have. Delicious chocolate
>>98421272
