V6 is coming. Can and will they fix the mess of V5?
>>98429927Don't look at the playtest materials.They are cursed.
>>98429927>V6 is coming.Ew>Can and will they fix the mess of V5?Can they? Maybe, if they hired an actually competent team. Will they? Lol no
>>98429927I generally think it's a step in the right direction, at least from what I've seen. From what I recon, they can make few steps back with some other stuff. I remain cautiously optimistic. It doesn't look worse than V5 so that's that.
>>98429927Isn't current day White Wolf cucked as fuck and has been for a long time?
>>98429927Playtest is out and it's dogshit. Like dogshit, dogshit.
>>98430112I saw looked at a sample character sheet, saw pronouns at the top, and immediately noped the fuck out. Talk about a canary in a coal mine.
Nope. Kill paradox niggers.
>>98429934Elaborate.
>>98430156Pronouns have been around since V5 I think; so I don't care much. It's VtM; gay faggotry is part and parcel with the game and has been since 1e; you get used to it. Wanna see something bad?
>>98430176Also Protean doesn't exist anymore; instead it's been split between giving some shape-changing stuff to Animalism and Vicissitude is back and takes the more monstrous changes. Instead of Predator Types we now have Sire Relationships.
>>98429927>lead dev is a Brazilian OSR guyClearly not
>>98430195i guess the meta plot stuff is fine but who even cares anymore.
>>98429927Gangrels cannot Protean. Lasombra need to roll to use a key fobSome third horrifying thing.
>>98430195Weird, isn't easy to remove animalism?
>>98430176>Roll well>Receive resourceAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
>>98430218No, because fuck you and fuck gangrels. >>98430222It's literally Daggerheart's Hope & Fear mechanic; but somehow worse?
Giovanni are back, Setites are still the Ministry. One step forward, one step back.
>>98430239Man, they'll crucify me here but as a V5 hater I liked the idea of the Hecata the most. This disparate group of clans who all hate each other having to band together under one group. The whole concept of the Family Reunion was so interesting.
>>98430195>Also Protean doesn't exist anymore;OH NONONONONONONONO
>>98430218Animalism basically houses all of Protean for the dots we have other than Earth Meld which is a unique thing Gangrel can have to start with. All the Disciplines have three one dots, three 2 dots, and two 3 dot powers each and unlike V5 you can pick them up for very cheap as extras. So not much is lost here really. Gangrel have always been my goto clan because of Protean but I'm struggling to be annoyed by this. The powers are more interesting than the older editions too, at least for base line core book stuff. I think there is a lot of reason to be apprehensive but not much real cause for concern
>>98430176I said it in the other thread, I really dislike a ST facing meta resource. I'm the fuckin' game master, I don't need to spend points to make the situation harder for the PCs.Are hunger dice still a thing?
>>98430881Hunger dice aren't a thing, it's stat + skill - diff as your pool with 8s needed to succeed. It's the nWoD dice mechanic because they're taking the good nWoD ideas too (without making them worse for no fucking reason like V5 did). There is still a way to frenzy based on your actions but it's more of a slow build than "oops you rolled the bad dice fucko"
>>98429927>Can theyMaybe. I think some of what people are bouncing off is the lower power level and variety of power levels to play as that VtM had.>Will they?Lmao no.I think Requiem 2e is the best Vampire game, however; so maybe I'm retarded.>>98430156Do you just read rulesbooks and splats and never actually play games? The whole alt scene of which Vampire is a part has always been pretty faggy.
>>98430156Since when has Vampire or WoD in general ever not been a fag game? Fucking posers, next you'll throw a shitfit about the books occasionally using "she" as the 3rd person adjective for God instead of "he"
>>98430948Dilate harder, paradox shill
>>98430928stfu retarded requiemtard
I'm tired of the endless faggotry. I'm tired of narrative things being turned into hard rules, and combat turned into simple narration. I'm tired of personalities being stats, and tangible abilities being abstracted. The sensible pyramid of tabletop is constantly being shifted by the dysgenic so that it rests with its point on the ground.
Signs point to no.
>>98430948>3rd person adjectivebaka
>>98429927Unironically looks worse than V5. Staggeringly derivative of D&D and Daggerheart of all things.
I see no reason to switch from v20
>>98429927>Player and Storyteller Resources: Players can now earn a resource called "Quickening" by rolling well. This resource can then be spent to enhance rolls, making the game even more thrilling. And Storytellers now have a play-generated resource called "Drama" that they can spend to trigger events, empower NPCs and increase the stakes of the players' actions.This is fucking retarded.>>98430238It's MUCH worse. Fear in daggerheart makes SOME sense because combat initiative in that game is "just make something up lmao who cares". So specific, non-subjective conditions for GM moves + using fear as reactions/legendary actions gives it some semblance of order.VtM is not a storytelling oriented game so it's just complete fucking nonsense.
>>98431940*VtM IS a storytelling oriented gamefuck I'm so retarded I could work at White Wolf
>Difficulty now reduces dice pool>As tiers of play go up, Difficulty increasesAm I retarded or does this actually mean leveling does nothing?
>>98432110Your dice pool is Attribute + Skill - Difficulty and you need an 8+ on a die to succeed. So it really depends how much you improved a stat before you advanced. If you had 1 Athletics to start with and pump it to 5 as a Neonate then if you hit Ancilla you'll still be very potent, but if you didn't improve it at all you'll struggle more. Gaining 1 dot and then having the average diff increase is no real change on the average roll but the average task should still be narratively harder and you'll still be better at the things that used to be average.
>>98429927they did it, they did the impossible. they unified the WoD community. everybody is in agreement that this playtest is complete ass.
>>98432940>WoD Community united in agreeing this edition will be bad from here to xitterProofs? I want to believe this to be true that even the worst of the internet can come together to agree on something.
>>98432955go literally anywhere. reddit, discord, it doesn't matter. the official WoD discord has had to put it's dedicated V6 channel into slowdown mode because of all the negative comments flooding in
>>98432977I'll take your word for it. I can't wait for a lovely compilation to be made of mad (justified) redditors, Discord users, twitter and us.I have a feeling this edition of WoD is being sharted out due to the Bloodlines 2 game which is bad. I got into WoD when I picked up Bloodlines one. I enjoyed the game. It was probably doing what Dawn of War did for Warhamemr 40k back in the day. I think.
>>98429927I liked v5. The 'community' just can't handle an actual decent rulebook and characters being able to change or grow
>>98433003It was a good step to try, but in essence it was a riff on the changes they made in first edition requiem without the bravery to admit it is a reset. Not to mean they didn’t make other good changes, friends of mine often complain about blood just being “red mana” so hunger dice are an interesting choice. But the disjointment between established lore and concepts and cutting the Sabbath as they did and replacing them with the Church of Caine as a new Lancea Sanctum is interesting but takes a lot away from players. Same with established Bloodlines. It just gets tiring even before one touches the socio-politcal stuff.
>>98430206How did the Anarchs "win"
>>98433238Probably rara power fighting, using communist terms and being inclusive. Without Elders actually possible I guess.
>>98432110Given a charitable reading, the chart is just explaining what level of difficulty would challenge characters of that tier.
>>98430176...Isn't this just Daggerheart's hope and fear mechanic?
>>98434196 (Me)Nevermind someone else said it.
>>98430928>politically correct =/= gay
>>98429927When it's coinciding with a CRPG, the answer is no
>>98430176>disempowering GMs and using repurce systemsThese commies must think GMs are some weird capitalistic thing and want a gmless system. Watch it happen.
>>98429927Until they actually retcon and abandon the entirety of the gWoD setting that they established with V5 and then solidified with W5/H5, they only show that they have learned nothing.Return to oWoD.Accept no substitutes.Oh, and also the playtest is shit but mechanics can always be fixed.
>>98430243From the perspective of oWoD it was beyond fucking stupid, anon. One of the clans wasn't even Cappadocian to begin with. Another was buried unalive long before Giovanni and had no relation. They didn't "have to" band together at all and it made no sense whatsoever.It could have been cool, but instead they made it retarded.>>98430869Removing Protean is fucking stupid, but I do find it funny that the whole "Dots in Discipline measures ability, powers are bought separately and there can be multiple at each bracket" mirrors almost exactly what I want to do in my Discipline rebrew that I was talking about just like a week or two ago.There is no salvaging V6 or their shit setting, but it is still nice to know that not every single atom of every single person at Paradox is pathologically retarded.
>>98431815This is the sad truth.
>>98432940Big doubt. Everyone with experience already knew that V5/gWoD was complete dogshit, and I have seen no reason why the corpo-cocksucking tourists that came with V5 are not going to gleefully embrace the troonslop that is V6 and the continuation of the setting.I mean if they genuinely reject V6 and does so for the right reasons, I'm here for it. I'm just saying big doubt. But big if true.
> sex diablerie canon> sabbat rape squads> no need to diablerize an older generation to change generation???? this might be an oversight or typo
>>98434913you don't need to believe me, i've witnessed beauty regardless. the salt got so bad i actually went to the WoD discord since years ago, just to witness it and wasn't disappointed. things have mellowed out since then but the general reaction still isn't good.
I've never played any White Wolf games, but a while ago I broke the dark curse of D&D with my group and I'm already considering my options once we're done with Call of Cthulhu. If I wanted to go for Vampire, what would be my best options?
>>98434967The totally nonbiased opinion; ignore every other faggot and their edition wars.> v20Best lore; best mechanics, most material, very in depth and if people like more personalized and expanded character creation this is THE one. A bit outdated, but not bad at all, and in a way that fits the flavor.> v5Sleek, faster, streamlined and optimized. Modern nights, and the mechanics reflect this. Character creation is extremely fast and easy in a way that still doesn't feel lightweight. The hunger dice rules are literally the best thing modern WoD has ever done, if not the only good thing in my opinion. They fucked the lore and metaplot over to ridiculous levels, but at least that makes it so you can just do whatever the fuck you want with wherever you're playing. > VtRThe best if you wanna just do your own things. VtM has its own setting, both V5 and V20; with the clans and Camarilla / Anarchs / Sabbat, etc; VtR is a bit more of a tolbox to make your own thing. Little to no metaplot. The humanity mechanic is top notch and my favorite thing. Just pick and chose.
>>98429927What's the point? 3 decades later oWoD is generally still fucking great and better than vast majority of stuff they've released afterwards. And I'm not even some grog, only got really into it in recent years. Very unlikely they're going to top it with anything new, even if it'll generally be good.
>>98434748>the playtest is shitI really do feel like they don't understand what works in vampire. 2nd edition is a very simple game AND ITS BETTER AS A SIMPLE GAME, the new wave of theater kids always wanted to play story first and rules later >And trying to put the story or the drama in the rules doesn't work. Ask Storygamers, tried this shit for a decade. Shut their shit down when their head honcho made the equivalent of dnd 5th edition WITH CLOCKDIALS. But not before gobbling his knob over it. >They have to engage in the metaAnd they fucking hate. Everyone of their shitty threater kids hates it, everyone of their staff hates it, everyone in their brand management and franchising departments hates it but >They need a good writer>And they need an even better editorYou can literally run movie franchises off of WOD's coattails (hey Kate). All you have to do is go back to the story>Don't Deconstruct the story>Don't Do not Fucking use Immortal Immoral Bloodsuckers to fucking preach to me about enlightened materialism and feminism and how bad the church is >And just write some fucking vampire shit. You know the political (small p, here not the writers dipshit politics, the vampires dipshit politics) shit that every vampire character IS FUCKING DROWNING IN and put words to page. Holy fuck how is this complicated. Please for the love of god. >STOP READING ABOUT PLAYER DEATH SPIRALSAnd just write some good vampire shit man. Do you even enjoy the genre? GO GET JASON CARL AND WHATEVER RICE YOU CAN DIG UP AND WHOEVER IS ACTUALLY SELLING VAMP LIT ON WHATEVER INDIE SELFPUBLISHING PLATFORM YOU CARE FOR AND TELL THEM TO WRITE SOME VAMPIRE SHIT>VAMPIRE SHIT >JUST FUCKING WRITE ITI shouldn't be this mad over how dogshit these ideas are. But I am. I wish someone over there was. Like, literally just take the women who can't write out of these fucking meetings. And that's going to be 99% of them. Just remove them. Just beg Jason, Please Jason, just one good idea.
>>98434996> whatever rice you can dig up Curious how the downfall of VtM coincided with Anne Rice's death. Much to think about.
>>98434965I want to believe.>>98434989Retard.
>>98430206
>>98434967Go with Revised edition. It's great, classic, has lots of quality supplementary material, great character creation and is probably the closest to most outsiders' idea of VtM
>>98434967>best optionV20, but it can seem daunting, especially to playoids. I'd say focus on what is relevant, but it takes experience to know what is. So Revised can be a better entry. 2nd Edition, Revised, and V20 are all mechanically compatible and set in the same setting. The opposite is true for V5, which hilariously won't even be compatible with V6 either.
>>98435035>So Revised can be a better entry. 2nd Edition, Revised, and V20 are all mechanically compatible and set in the same setting.This cannot really be stressed enough. Its the core of the entire franchise (no matter what Paradox thinks or their legal/marketing department screams) and you can start with any one and move to any of the books between all of them at your own pace or what you want stuff on, and it will all just sorta work.
>>98433238they killed the game
>>98429927VtM has been a dumb system and setting since its inception.
>>98435987Nu-uh.
>>98435026Jack would totally buy that shirt>Who am I kidding, he would be selling that shirt.
>>98433238The power of being the in-setting avatar of the writers' sociopolitical ideology.>>98434945How long before they realize the implications and purge it like that charm from the original draft of the Abyssals book that lets you summon ghosts to rape someone?
>>98434945>you can now have Helena suck your soul out through your dick>or diablerize someone through hand-holdingBravo!
>>98433238They're on the right side of history
>>98430176>Be rewarded for... random chanceWha-?That's retarded.
>>98434945>PLAP PLAP PLAP LOWER MY GENERATION LOWER MY GENERATION
>>98434869Protean is my fave, so I would prefer it to stay but I also don't know it's broad enough to be interesting on its own when you've got 8 powers in 3 dots of it. V5 tried and it's the worst version of Protean there is so I'm happy for them to experiment with it like this in a half-complete alpha playtest. VtR2e has the best version of it by a mile and part of that is how variable the powers can be. Predatory Aspect giving you a suite of bespoke animal-themed bonuses to pick up is some of the best single power design the franchise has. V6's version isn't quite as fun but it's along the same lines and I think I'd prefer a power that's really broad in its application so it can sell the animal shifting fantasy, rather than a lot of powers that are more niche and expensive. The new Discipline structure is a highlight. Lots of powers for a theme, you can actually acquire them all and specialise a PC, and more dots improves older powers in a way that rewards specialisation. It's just a good set up. The rest of V6 is broadly okay to good but lacking polish with a couple of big pain points but I'm not super worried about it experimenting at the time of development you're meant to be experimenting.
>>98434945>sex diablerie canonIsn't this shit basically those xianxia novels with qi vampirism via dual cultivation?
>>98437601>V5>it's the worst versionNo shit anon, I wonder why.
>>98437508Exactly what I told my GM. You're essentially rewarding players for... rolling high? Like, isn't the reward for rolling high a high roll already?And le Drama points is just.. the GM doing what he's supposed to be doing anyway?
>>98437877I've never played it, but the momentum mechanics in the 2d20 seem like a good implementation of this: you get them for succeeding, but you can only have a limited amount, so you're encouraged to spend them, and a lot of player facing abilities require expenditure to work. I haven't ran that system for the same reason I dislike this one though; GM facing meta points just rub me the wrong way. I don't need to spend points to have reinforcements show up or something, I'm the GM, I can already *do* that. The point of a meta currency is to give the players a limited version of the power the GM already has, for a limited time.
>>98438370>you get them for succeeding, but you can only have a limited amount, so you're encouraged to spend them, and a lot of player facing abilities require expenditure to workSo the exact way quickening works.Frankly it's just a shit mechanic for VTM. It doesn't really fit the tone or setting at all, almost none of these rule do, but they were put in for trend-chasing not because anyone understood what they were supposed to be designing a game for.
>>98438370Yeah, I'm not a big fan of Dagger heart and I know it's the /tg/ thing to rage and hate but I think that mechanic works for that game because of what it's about, what they're trying to do. It doesn't really work on VtM at all and it feels like they saw DH got good reviews on that side so they just copied them without first figuring out if it fits or even trying to adapt it to the system, themes or vibes. >>98429927You basically have two camps: Those who wanted the V5 consolidation undone cause they hated it, and those that liked the V5 version.V6 comes along and largely undoes V5 but then consolidates in other ways, thus making no one happy and giving us something no one was asking for. The changes still break the lore, just in different ways now, and it breaks the lore of BOTH continuities (V20 and V5).So yeah, everyone mad.
>>98439039Its kind of disappointing that these people are trying to bandwagon on current design trend shit instead of just talking what worked from classic and v5 and doing some editing and streamlining. It doesn't need a massive overhaul, it needs a revision.
>>98429927I think V6 is a desperate attempt to get money from newcomers from Bloodlines 2 but I think that vidya game is bad so I guess the TTRPG Vampire V6 game will also be bad.
>>98430176>reinvent fate but more narrow and worse for what purpose?
>>98437622>you can fuck bitches to align your genital meridians and endure another 400 years of battleI will now play your shitty vampire game.
>>98441568Which is funny, because Bloodlines 2 was always going to be bad because that was based on V5 and set in gWoD. It's like a vicious cycle of bad.
>>98434996>I really do feel like they don't understand what works in vampire. https://youtube.com/shorts/h-IQLoOkJQI?is=2wbv0mQ-Gt1p7y3Y
>>98429927Did they stop with the shitty amalgam disciples?Did they figure out what the fuck they were doing with the beckoning?Are werewolves still gay environmentalists assholes who are rightfully hated by everyone in the setting for being aggressively retarded?Did they do anything at all with deviants/mutants?Did they yet again recon ghost and demons?It's not like I even play the game anymore, but the lore has been a mess for over a decade.
>>98446326No; but in a never before seen move they changed the existing amalgams in V5 to wholly new ones for V6 that leave absolutely no one happy. Revised fans hate it because it still amalgams, v5 fans hate it cause they're new and retarded.Not really. THey said the Beckoning ended and the vamps who went over, came back different. Traumatized and missing something. Could be interesting, if done properly.No clue yet.Of course not.No clue yet. I agree that the lore was awful and needed a revamp, I liked some of the ideas in V5 and I liked the hunger system. But it's like they saw how bad everything else and decided to make it worse, somehow.
>>98446326>shitty amalgam disciplesWhat was this, in V5? I'm out of the loop.
I'm too lazy to search properly. Where can I view V6 discipline changes and in-clan discipline distribution? I want to know how much paratards fucked up this time.
>>98449715Most unique disciplines were reduced into amalgamations of generic disciplines in V5.For example, Vicissitude became combination of Protean and Dominate. Obtenebration became obsolete as well and became part of the Oblivion.
>>98449715replacement of combo disciplines, except with a worse implementation because they limited the amount of discipline powers you could take in a way that just overcomplicates things. also they had the bright idea to turn some clan disciplines into amalgams
>>98450366
>>98451132>>98450366No Protean; it's been split between Animalism and Vicissitude.
>>98451144>V5: let's remove Vicissitude, it's weird and gross, just give Tzimisce Protean instead>V6: hold my beer
>>98451191That's kind of the consensus and why nobodys' happy with v6. Who knows why they made this edition for. Cause it's neither the grognards nor the newfags.
>>98433106Man, I love these
>>98429927>V6 is coming. OK, nice.>Can and will they fix the mess of V5?Doubt.gif
>>98437081>How long before they realize the implications and purge it like that charm from the original draft of the Abyssals book that lets you summon ghosts to rape someone?In exalted, the problem was that it was "summon ghosts to ravish/rape people" instead of "this Charm could be used to rape/ravish" people
>>98451132>>98451144What is Tellurgy and why is it shared between Ravnos and Tzimisce?
>>98451144wtf do Tremere have necromancy?>>98451132And this is one more reason I ignore anything since v20
>>98451132What is Corruption?
>>98454273Sounds like it's about making people fall into vice and degradation so you can manipulate them
>>98454295So I cant have my Settite turn into a fuckn snake?
>>98454397Not going by that description of the skill that would fall under Animalism, which isn't something Setties can take in-clanProbably because WW doesn't want them associated with Egyptian myth anymore.
>>98453562It's a discipline of "Making shit up", as one can guess from the name. Basically you think about something and it manifests in real world.I get it belonging to the gypsies, but I have absolutely no idea why would they assign it to Tzimisce, though I guess it will overlap or replace Koldunic sorcery.
>>98451144>Clan of asspulls get four in-clan disciplines, instead of threeWhen will tzigger-glazing end?
