Is the 6 attribute system based or kringe
The only thing that matters is you and your group enjoy the game you're playing according to its rules and any houserules agreed upon before the game starts.
Cringe, Strength and Constitution have no right being separate>My massive, hulking barbarian with 1000HP can't lift a heavy rock>My super strength Hercules dies to a swift breezeJust make them the same stat at this point
>>98465325>My super strength Hercules dies to a swift breeze>Gym rats dying from both covid and jab by the thousands
>>98465288Wrong and gay.>>98465229No. The number you have depends heavily on the tone of the game you're running. The only real wrong answers are less than 4 and more than 9.
>>98472761That's because steroids weaken their hearts. Same reason Zyzz died of a heart attack at 22.
>>98472800Still proof that if you can have a high Strength and low Constitution. While not nearly as common, a lot of legit strongmen are bowled over by colds and flues.
>>98472800So...what you wanna say is that there is a difference between strength and constitution?
>>98465325>>98472761STR and CON deserve to be separate, since physical health/vitality deserves to be separate from physical bulk. But HP really should be tied to STR. Meanwhile, CON should get something else to represent cardiovascular endurance, like extra spell slots, ki points, superiority dice, or whatever, depending on character class.>>98465229Any system that has DEX as one attribute that costs the same as STR and does everything STR does but better is omega kringle. DEX deserves to be split into two stats: Coordination (for weapon skills and non-combat tasks) and Reflexes (for Initiative and Evasion). WIS also deserves to be split into two stats: Willpower and Perception. Eight attributes is the only way that makes any sense.
>>98473848Sounds like you want Anima's stats
>>98473848I think 3.5e works all of that pretty neatly except splitting Dex and Wis. Why would you do that...?
>>98465325This reads as if Cringe was a stat you want to be compressed together with STR and CON.
>>98465325even strength and strength endurance are separate physical capacities that athletes have to trainStrength and some general "constitution" are most certainly different things and only somewhat related
>>98473848In practice, aerobic endurance is not well modeled in most games and situations where it would come up because the pattern of play is kinda boring.If you really want to get into the weeds, strength can represent overall athleticism - and running, swimming, feats of the strength can be skills that are trained and developed.But in general endurance tends to come up in TPK-esque scenarios like rooms filling with water where you could just as well handwave it, or set a time-limit. Or in endurance chases which tend to have really boring patterns of play.
>>98476445It becomes more important in systems where things like "Extra Effort" is an option. Let's take D&D 5E for an example. If having higher Endurance gave a fighter extra Action Surges and Superiority Dice in combat, to the point where you could Action Surge on every turn and use Combat Maneuvers on every attack, then that would be very useful, even if the DM never throws the party into a situation where their ability to withstand dehydration, starvation, exhaustion, suffocation, etc.
>>98476466>where their ability to withstand dehydration, starvation, exhaustion, suffocation, etc.meant to say "where their ability to withstand [...] matters."
>>98465325Agreed. Simulation-wise, yeah it makes sense to separate them. But 99% of characters one seeks to emulate that are good at one are good at both. Further, Constitution is an entirely reactive stat. You don't Constitution your way out of a problem through intent. 'Can I use my Strength to lift this object?' Reasonable and common enough. 'Can I use my Dexterity to contort my body in this way?' Similarly reasonable and common. 'Can I analyze this problem with my Intelligence?' Reasonable. 'Can I make a good guess with my wisdom?' Reasonable. 'Can I convince this guy with my Charisma?' Reasonable. What does Constitution contribute to active problem solving? Little. Do you use it in regards to certain effects like exhaustion and suffocation? Yeah. But you rarely if ever plan around the party's largest constitution score.
>>98481891Scion 2e gives an example of how to use it but it is a narrative system.
>>98465325The trick is to have a setting where people are innately magical enough that working out in certain ways can have big boosts to only specific aspects of physical ability
>>98479926Which Indians are you talk about? Casino Indians or shitting on the street Indians?
>>98465229Merely okay, nogames
>>98472800>>98473770>>98472991Pretty good point for con and str being separate.Conceptually I still think con is probably the weakest stat though.
>>98486547>Conceptually I still think con is probably the weakest stat though.Only in the context of modern D&D, and only if you're not forcing fortitude saves often enough (or your edition's equivalent).
>>98482127>Intelligence(Force)hahaha
>>98465229I think it does it's job, think stuff like the S.P.E.C.I.A.L. system does it better.
>>98486547>Conceptually I still think con is probably the weakest stat though.3e D&D did a number on Con's importance. In 1e and 2e, a Con of 10 meant that you had a 30% of dying every time you changed shape, get petrified or magically age and a 25% chance of failing to resurrect when raise dead and resurrection are cast on you. Haste was powerful but dangerous if cast on low Con characters and Resurrection could kill the caster as they magically aged you.Facing a Medusa was extremely dangerous even at high levels because failing a Petrification save (which were harder to make then Paralyze/Poison/Death saves) meant you need to succeed on two System shock rolls or end up a corpse.
>>98465229basedhave you seen the rifts attributes? there's 8 of them and it's overcomplicatedthe only way to simplify is to put str and con in to one, dex by itself, and a mental stat for int, wis and cha>>98486547>conceptually weakest statthat would be charisma. social skills are mental but they depend on the mentality of others involved
>>98473848>like extra spell slots, ki points, superiority dice, or whatever,I think gurps works exactly like that, hp comes from your str and health is rolled to resist pain, diseases and fatigue, that kind of thingsbut i don't like how gurps does the rest of the stats
>>98488812>I think gurps works exactly like thatIt is exactly how it works in GURPS. HT (the CON equivalent) gives FP (Fatigue Points), which you can spend to use any special ability (magic spells, psionic powers, bardic enthrallment, cinematic martial arts skills, etc.) or enhance any mundane capability (use Extra Effort to hit harder, run faster, jump further, etc.). It also influences Basic Speed (Dodge chance, Move rate, and Initiative) and and is used in Death saves, Stun saves, natural recovery, etc.Meanwhile ST gives HP, so the big strong guys are exactly as tough as you expect them to be. You can still choose to specialize into only HP, only damage, or only carrying capacity, but this is the default.GURPS is the only game I know of that does ST and HT the way it does, and honestly, after being introduced to the way it works in GURPS, it feels like the only way that makes any sense in any context. Every other game that doesn't do Strength and Health this way just feels automatically worse.I kind of agree with you on the other attributes, though. DX and IQ feel way too broad and too cheap for how much they cover. At least it's easy to fix with a couple tweaks. Raise the price of DX and IQ, or set a cap on them. That way PCs are encouraged to specialize into secondary characteristics, traits, talents, skills, and so on.
>>98465229>dex gives chance to hit, damage, chance to get hit, and defines your capability in several skills>str...uhh, does some of that, but not really as well.
