>"LGS" charges a "table fee"for what? for "using your space"? for you putting a timer on a screen that anyone can do? for "using your terrain" which is unpainted and dogshit?meanwhile I can just pay membership to a local clubhouse which costs half as much on a weekly basis, and I get access to free parking, a bar that serves alcohol (not a minifridge with diet coke pigswill), longer opening hours, a lovely barmaid, and I don't have to share with magic players and I don't have to worry about the store folding because "table fees" are the only thing keeping it afloatdeath to the LGS as a playspace.
>>98479893The lgs has to make money somehow and maybe the table fee is them coping with 3d printing meaning less minis being sold. Just a guess.How are club community regulars compared lgs community regulars?
>>98479893>business offers a service for a fee>don't want to pay the fee>don't get the service>get similar service from other institution on terms you likeSo what's the problem?
Yes, I prefer to have my sessions in hotel lobbies. If you look the part, you can also just sneak into the hotel restaurant for free snacks.
>>98479893The LGS has always been the for the unwashed masses. True patricians play in their own or a friends Dedicated Wargaming Basement
>>98479893>for what? for "using your space"?Yes. Do you not understand how fucking commerce works?
>>98479893What is your complaint? If they don't have any services you need, then just... don't go there? What's the problem?
>>98479907A low table fee ($1 to $5) is also a great way to filter out the customers that lose them money
>>98479893Well?
>>98480358How so? 1-5 usd isn’t that a deal. I don’t understand how charging tables acts as a filter but then again my lgs doesn’t charge for table usage.
>>98479893You don't play games.
>>98480400Because the people you don't want in your store won't pay it, and the people you want to keep as customers, will.
>>98480400Keeps away people who will never buy anything ever (because they have no money), are just there to steal, and people using the store for free babysitting for their mistakes.
>>98479893I don't get playing in gaming stores in the first place.Do you people not have dining tables?
>>98480435The people who just want to steal will do that anyways. See Pokemon scalpers.But the free babysitting part is pretty good. How does one "subtly" plant the seed of this idea to a manager so that it germinates into becoming store policy?
>>98480475Gaming stores can be a good place to first meet players to get to know them before deciding to let them in your house to play games.But sometimes it is unavoidable as sometimes good players have allergies to one's pets or more.Or you can be a poor like me and be stuck in apartment and never gonna have a house with basement for tabletop wargaming.
>>98480358The other option is to offer vouchers for table slots to repeat customers or customers who make a big purchase.
>>98480502Well yeah, that's pretty common, the other trick is that you don't actually charge table fees to people you know and like, and you don't set the timer unless the tables are all full and there's someone waiting. (The trick is not to make it obvious that you're showing favoritism)But "free table" vouchers are also a good as a physical reminder to newer customers to come back and play.
The worst fucking part is when you pay a fee for some D&D and it's all unvetted theater kids shitting up the place
>>98480478Just outright tell them "you should charge a fee for tables so you don't get kids sitting around shrieking."
>>98479893I see, how is the chair situation? Are clubhouses like those places that hold bingo nights?
>>98480597>unvetted theater kids shitting up the placeWait till you get a furry who thinks the game is a sex larp and has refused to acknowledge when you have told him it isnt.
You might be surprised to find this out, but if you walk into a random coffee shop they want you to pay a fee if you decide to take up a table
>>98480715>Wait till you get a furry who thinks the game is a sex larpI can do you one better.I had a brony who made their OC into the game that was a cannibal barbarian and was confused to why he was attacked on site for eating a corpse. You want to know the real strange thing is? This happened twice with two different people at two different games.
>>98480780holy based
>>98480475Not everyone lives alone or in a place they feel comfortable taking others (noise, bad neighborhood, cramped space, slob living conditions, etc.)
>>98479893...what's a clubhouse in this case? Is your name mickey mouse?
>>98480400congratulations, you discovered the same reason why people will charge a trivial amount to allow the internet even though 1 dollar per person per hour will never pay for the internet billthe purpose is not to generate revenue, although am extra beer at the end of the day is nice, its to modulate customer demandby forcing people to pay an amount, even a trivial amount, this does actually filter out people who were never going to buy anything in the first placebut it also creates a subconscious commitment in people paying to actually use the thing now that they have paid for itpeople paying to sit at a table even if its a puny sum still encourages them to maybe actually play a game instead of just sitting down and doing nothing
>>98479893if the LGS charges you for the table, they should offer services beyond that
>>98480435As a thief, I am entirely willing to front five bucks to better case a given place I'll be stealing from.
>>98479893cool, where's your clubhouse? We'll play there.
>>98480780Heaven forbid a man indulge on his cheat day.
>>98480429???
>>98483710What sorts of things have you stolen?
>>98483741What are you, a cop?
>>98479893The store existing at all is costing them money. They need to make money. So either pay up or go find some other communal gathering spot to play your pretend games.
>>98480597>pay for some D&D and it's all theater kidsYou're playing DnD what did you expect?
>>98483719KEK
>>98483743Yes, coming to your house now.
I've been saying for a while that LGSs and gaming should transition to a different business model; maybe this doesn't work in really small towns, but LGSs almost don't exist in big cities and often aren't places I'd want to be at anyways.Bring back the Gentleman's Club, in the original sense. A really cushy lounge with comfy chairs, a beer or liquor license, tasteful decorations, and premium terrain. A hobby area where you can sit and paint or rent time on a printer. It's also a party and event space. People who play pool pay to use a table, there's no reason wargaming should be above such things. Nooks and semi-private rooms for RPG sessions, there's always some geek film playing on a big TV or projector. There's some sweet spot of Table Fees (with coupons and vouchers), a cover charge at the door, a system to reserve tables, and an option for Membership (6-month, yearly, whatever) that lets you avoid all the fees and gives you a discount on drinks, snacks, and merch that might result in something profitable.A Table Fee is a good idea, especially if its only $5.
>>98484169>your house nowOh yeah. The house. That I paid for. With my job. And a bit of credit. From the bank I trust!
>>98479893Mine offers a fee, but it's exchanged 1 to 1 for store credit. Do your stores really expect you to rent a table for 3 hours with nothing in return?
>>98484852The return is generally that you buy products at their store as opposed to their competitors. Or they profit from you being in the space in general by selling drinks or food.My current store sells booze, pop, and juice and will order stuff from the restaurant next door and deliver it to you cheaper than doordash/uber.Lots of people just show up and order beer or appetizers with their game. People who don't have games hang out and order drinks anyway.
>>98479893You aren't there to play a TCG which is where the real money is, and they resent you for it.
>>98484568>LGSs and gaming should transition to a different business modelAre you going to tell us which exact business model or are you one of those gaslighters that say "just adapt lol" without a microthought if there even are possible adaptations TO make or how many people can make the change before supply and demand resets the problem?>often aren't places I'd want to be at anyways. Then why even bothet saying things for "a while">Bring back the Gentleman's ClubDo gentlemen even exist on the planet anymore?>A really cushy lounge withA lounge is even more space which translates to rent which is money>Comfy chairsMoney> a beer or liquor licenseMore asspain for the owner, maybe money depending where you are>tasteful decorationsMoney>and premium terrainSounds like money> Nooks and semi-private rooms for RPGNIGGER HOW INFINITE EVEN IS YOUR FANTASY LGS-CLUB MANSION!? RENT, ever heard about it?> there's always some geek film playing on a big TV or projector.MoneyNow are you going to tell us the exact business model that covers all that money?>sweet spotNo fuck off and do some research! Think how many rooms are needed, how big or small they need to be, then the rent in your area per square meter/foot. Then the expences for the minimum you would accept as "comfy" chairs and "tasteful" furnishings to get the number to be reinbursed through penny pinching modern wargamers. Then you take that number and divide that by the total visitors a LGS in your area gets (niche hobby btw) to get a number you need to earn from everyone to cover all of those expences. And then just try to gaslight yourself that would not filter out near 100% of LGS goers. Brother we are talking about people who depend on the LGS because their rickety apartments can hardly provide a gaming experience on their tall coffee tables the average poverty fuck calls a table. What do you mean you think they can cover the infinite rent for your eyes wide shut luxury furnished labyrinth?
>>98479893See, I just pay my mortgage and get a massive living room with two reclining couches, dedicated end tables for each player, uncontested control of the thermostat, a full kitchen with which to make dinner, and guest rooms for the players to stay in after we’re done for the night.
>>98480400If you post something for free on Facebook marketplace, you’ll get tens of total dipshits messaging out of boredom, ghosting, begging for delivery, etc. Posting it for $10 weeds out all those morons. If I have something <$20, I’ll post it for some small amount and if the buyer seems chill I’ll just give it to them. Something about a free product or service draws out the absolute worst in humanity.
>>98480475yeah, but its nice to get out. a house fullof kids makes it hard for me to just relax, have a pint, and focus on strategy. getting out once a week for a couple hours is a good break
>>98484608I was being respectful of your cardboard box, why are you so upset?
>>98479893>for "using your space"?What bills are you paying there otherwise? You paying for the climate control, the electric, or the rent?>meanwhile I can just pay membership to a local clubhouseOff you go then.
>>98480475Unless you are single living on your own that is not an option.
>>98479893Only place I've ever seen do this was at stores that doubled as restaurants- which makes logical sense because they sell perishables & can't have people loafing around taking up space in that situation.If any other store tried that shit I'm pretty sure the community would laugh them out of business
>>98485219And that's wargamers. Not the ultimate cheapskates of RPGoids
>>98485654>>98485219I'm drawing on examples I've seen from other successful models, like pubs, event spaces, bars, pool halls, and even country clubs.The money comes from membership fees, door fees, and selling booze. I don't think Magic Players are really part of this business model, apart from using one of the spaces for draft and prerelease events. All these things can happen at different times in different places, if an LGS can make room for Warhammer AND magic AND RPG stuff, so can this theoretical place that's ultimately a bar/lounge with an LGS attached, supported by cover charges for table use and an optional membership system.I play magic at the local arcade bar where they reserve a few tables every week. I play D&D at a pub that meets in their back lounge every week, the place with the tables, couches, and retro gaming consoles plugged into the TV that somehow manages to exist despite all those things costing money. I was in an EDH league that met at a bowling alley bar. All those pins and balls cost money, so I guess the place can't exist, doesn't exist, and I hallucinated the whole experience.Everything costs money, saying something costs money doesn't invalidate the concept, you spend money on luxuries that attract customers who spend more money than what the luxuries initially cost.I live in a major metro area so my perspective might be skewed. I am actually quite poor, but I've seen what a sufficient density of patrons (and a few affluent whales) can support.
>>98480475I do live alone, and have tables to spare, but just because I trust someone over a game in a public space doesn't mean I trust them enough to show them where I live.
>>98485264This is so fucking true...I grew up poor in southern italy and i fucking hate it but money really does filter out the vast majority of bullshit behaviour
>>98485975>All these things can happen at different times in differentYes>if an LGS can make room for Warhammer AND magic AND RPG stuffLet me stop you right there. the one LGS i have has like a handful of tables and the "store" area is a glorified closet with shelving units back to back across all walls. Having that much space is already not universal.>so can this theoretical place that's ultimately a bar/lounge with an LGS attachedTheoretically e=mc squared means i can have a single stage to orbit vehicle. What you described in not an LGS but a bar that has tabletop gaming as a side hustle. This by itself shows that an LGS like that is unlikely. Only an LGS that is dependent on something more mainstream like alcohol. >I play i was i was i have beenNot a single one of those descriptions is an LGS, just non LGS venues that tolerate some LGS activity. >the place can't exist, doesn't exist, and I hallucinated the whole experience.As you said, it is not the LGS part that bankrolls now is it?>but I've seen what a sufficient density of patrons (and a few affluent whales) can support.And the density came from bar and bowling which are popular among normal people, the niche part itself was merely stapled on by your description. Go to your alcoholics meetup if you desire. I do not. Lets see what can survive the K shaped economy. If it is just endless alcoholics and chain smokers at the bottom of this barrel then i will gladly solo game and that will be the end of it.
>>98486402What is your deal?
My friends and i were considering starting a club here in the states because we've grown so much and we're outgrowing the Lgs We play at but damn is venue space expensive. What's venue prices like where you guys are from? Britain has such a large club culture I'm wondering if venue space or club house rents are cheap over there or something. When I looked into it, the initial price was expensive but doable but then they start tacking on extra fees like insurance, on site staff/security, custodians and cleaners, etc.
>>98479893Blogpost incoming. There's no moral here I'm just talking about my (former) LGS. One of the guys in my playgroup was friendly with a LGS owner. He wasn't a bad guy, but he wasn't necessarily a great businessman either. At one point he reached out and asked us to play in his store; he had just cleared out a bunch of seating space and was chasing the "hangout spot" model where you try to just get a bunch of people to hang around in the store and get them to passively buy stuff while they're there. As a group of fairly normal-looking, normal-smelling guys, I guess we qualified as free advertising for the vibe he wanted.Anyway, we started playing there. We'd bring pizza and drinks. Pretty soon he added a confectionery and there was no outside food or drink allowed, so we started buying his food and drinks. Then he started charging for tables, but he let us play for free, which was nice. Then he told us he'd have to start charging us and we had to be like "look we want you to succeed but we were playing at our own houses and bringing our own food before this, I think we're just gonna go." I think maybe that was a bridge too far for most of his clientele. Then he converted the store into an escape room. Then he went out of business and died of a heart attack.Nice guy. I never knew him to make money doing anything.
>>98485388Just marry someone who also plays.
>>98486690I looked at doing something similar in Ontario (GTA)I attempted to get it started in a storage unit, a largish unit (that could accommodate a 9x5) table and some shelving for terrain/books etc. A place with AC, 24/7 access, decent lighting and at least one or two electrical outlets.The idea was to rent and have it be usable by only a very restricted cirlce of 4 trusted people. But it does get expensive and not everyone is willing to pay their montly part.
>>98487292If you're only allowing trusted people anyway, why wouldn't you just do it in your home?
the real problem is anyone thinking they can make money in a market space filled with customers as degenerate, capricious and smelly as tabletop gamers.
>>98487312I don't have the space right now unfortunately. I'm hoping to have an actual home within the next 5 years and convert half the garage/a room/the shed into a permanent gaming den where i can host massive siege games and run wargaming campaings and 3d print an obscene amount of Gw scans just so i can flood the local secondary market by dumping hundreds of them and causing a price crash for used miniatures in the Greater Toronto Area
>>98487292We were renting an unused classroom at local school for some years, though setting up the deal took some personal connections and we lost it when covid hit. But it was fun while it lasted.>>98487312Because neutral ground allows people to come play even when you aren't at home/available.
>>98485388In just about every living situation I've ever had I would host RPG sessions on my dining table at home. Parents house with 3 siblings. Sharehouse with 2 other guys. Living with ex-gf. Living with wife, etc. If you don't give a shit about the people you live with thinking you and your friends are weird retards, it doesn't really matter. I'll take that any day over playing in an LGS where I'm fighting to be heard over the inane shouting coming from the insufferable TCG players a few tables over, or worse yet, the theatre kid D&D table.
>>98486089To be fair that's mostly just shitalians being insufferable. 2 of the 4 worst players I've ever had were both italian speds.
>>98487343if you ever get that shed, post back. a couple lgs are fine in the gta, but i am getting real tired of game stores
>>98487533I actually will, and you're invited. But we have to play at least one siege game of WHFB 8th ed where you storm my dwarven castle. No point limits, you just bring all your painted models and we duke it out.
>>98490103i'll start painting the rats now
>>98485219>>98485975Actually, i saw that once, it was basically a magic club. It has a fee just for enter to play for non-menbers and menbers pay a monthly fee. The place was Impeccable, the bathrooms were extremely clean, and had a bunch of space ond confy chairs. On collection realese day, the owner bought pizza and alcohol to all members to pass the night. However, their social media was swamped with complaints. Not from the menbers, but from people compleined that they charge a high entry fee and that they were excluding people.Don't know if they are still open, it was some years ago.
>>98487343I hope you succeed.
>>98487533Speaking of GTA stores, the place we used to play; 401 games in Vaughan, just told us that they're basically using all their space for MtG now so we can't play there anymore. We have our campaign finale coming up soon. Any location you'd suggest? I don't mind paying for a table, of course. We're looking for places outside downtown Toronto if possible, anywhere near Richmond Hill/ Vaughan / Stouffville (hell, even Scarborough).
>>98491071I'd suggest Legends in vaughan, but I think they might be shut down. ETB in newmarket is great but thats a bit of a drive. I'm west of the city now, all my old game stores in the north closed. RIP Triple Play, you will be missed
>>98479893>meanwhile I can just pay membership to a local clubhouse which costs half as much on a weekly basissounds like some dogshit moose or elks club full of mold and lead paint. go for it, retard
>>98479893They charge because they have a bad business model and aren’t making enough to cover their rent. There’s a reason all the good game stores are in shitty half-empty shopping centers or in a really old building that’s been a Mexican restaurant and a gunstore before. Commercial Rent sucks and game stores don’t have a big enough profit for them, so they gotta nickel and dime.
>>98479893It sounds like this should be what community centers are for, but I don't know if that's how it works.I also realize I don't know where the nearest community center is.
My local game store doesn't charge a table fee, but I like to make an obligated purchase whenever I attend for Commander night. Usually a can of sodapop for me and plus-one, and a booster-pack.
Book a room in your local library, poorfags
>>98497274a big portion is also the convenience of the set up. I can and have booked a room at my library. Works great for D&D. but for my wargame? I have to bring my army, a mat, a mat worth of terrain, all my other shit as well. I'm far from food (if its even allowed inside) and I can't have a beer. It can be done, but its not as good as the local or as my (hypothetical) shed.
>>98484568They're illegal. You would be sued to death (successfully, thanks activist judges ignoring the law or reality) by feminazi grifters who would claim you're running a discriminatory anti-woman business with your gentlemen's club.They'd also ruin you personally by slinging horrible accusations like>he has little kid s slaves at his club he's a nonce reeeeeAnd even when proven false, you will still be destroyed.
>>98497467Community centres anon. It'll vary by region and if you're GTA it might be too developed and by the book, but in more rural leafland you can usually talk with the old lady running the show and they're quite chill and happy anyone under 60 is interested in the space. Should be able to get a space and some storage, although the beer part might be tricky.
>>98498202I'm the Toronto anon. And yes community centres and even legion halls are your best bet.There might be a fee or something to cover for the table and the space, but they're usually very affordable and if you're respectful with the space they might offer better rates for future dates.Usually they allow you to eat or are located in more urban areas with eating spots nearby (and you really should pack a meal rather than eating out) and since you're not sharing the space with the public like at TPL, they're safe enough where you don't have to constantly watch your stuff like an hawk.The problem though is partially the same >>98497467 mentions with regards to libraries.You still have to carry your army + (books + dice + tools + tokens + whatever); which would be the same anywhere else, but you also have to bring your terrain and possibly gaming surface. You're also going to be alone with the people partaking in your game, which isn't a bad thing, but it does mean that you'll never have the chance of getting new players involved in your campaign or meeting new gaming buddies.But that's the reality of not having/ belonging to a gaming club. I wish i knew of any wargaming club around me; I'd gladly pay a membership fee for one.
>>98487343Can you please share the scans here so we can download? Pokémon scalping is gonna spill over to warhammer on a comparable scale if it hasn’t happened yet.>>98498202>>98498577I’m from southern Ontario and I can say that I don’t know of any community centres somehow but then again I never looked because the lgs I know seems alright. But what are the big differences in community cultures at an lgs that doesn’t charge for tables and an lgs that does all compared to a community center?
>>98480478Usually it happens when the store starts to have a month or 2 in the red. Happened at mine. Suddenly the free loaders that show up after work and hang out until closing and all day on their off days disappeared.
>>98498661For now i can only share what i have on my phone. Ask me again in a couple of days (and please actually do) and I'll share whatever else I have on an USB i can't currently access).https://gofile.io/d/z6oPe2eVAnd to anyone downloading, i ask that you share these with fellow hobbyists whenever the occasion arises; just as like they were shared with me.
>>98498661in my experience, free tables means tables are full of TCGspaid tables mean more focused and autistic people, plus the owners friends always hanging around>>98498577i've played at small events in the legion, that was nice but my wargaming group fell apart as people had kids and priorities got shifted. tragic, but it happens.
>>98499055Thanks! I usually mean all of it. Just make sure you have nothing sensitive like a password file on there when you dump your stl stash here or in /3dpg/.>>98499071Thanks! Game store cultures vary but some things stay the same depending on similar circumstances.
>>98479893>for what? for "using your space"?Yes, they pay rent on it why shouldn't you. It also has the very desirable side effect of deflecting shitlords out the door, if your group can't afford a twenty to cover the space for an afternoon of gaming, they probably can't afford to shop either so good riddance.
