He meant he wanted professional rules writing.

Also why are a lot of dnd fans turning on him and saying he was bad? If he was genuinely bad wouldn’t people move from dnd?

>>98480383
It's more that, with the benefit of hindsight and the OSR community's existence, we can see that a lot of shitty DM behaviors in D&D and otherwise stem from the way he wanted the game to work.

He seems to have been a decent guy, just kind of a sperg.

>>98480373
>What did he mean by this?
"I am a midwit and a compulsive liar"

>>98480383
>Also why are a lot of dnd fans turning on him and saying he was bad?
He's white and male.

>>98480419
>He seems to have been a decent guy, just kind of a sperg.
He was only one of those things and we both know it wasn't the first.

>>98480477
Getting real tired of the retard crowd doing everything in their power to try and shit on icons of hobby gaming

>>98480477
Assuming you aren't trolling what is wrong with Gary Gygax who made DnD and can I have sources instead of "trust me bro" asscrust?

>>98480373
He was a hypocrite and a control freak. Now I don't think a man need be extinguished over such flaws, but it would be foolish to deny them.
>>98480477
Doing coke and deciding you were going to be the next big thing was a national pastime when he was most active. Using your own daughters as bait for marketing is cringe but not exactly outside the norms of the era.

Yes, we know you are part of a demoralization raid, to make the site undesirable for its users. Gary was more of a man than you'll ever be, agitprop loser

>>98480473
TPBP, he was a two-faced opportunist who changed his opinion based on who or where he was speaking. Compare his different statements from different places on the internet. It becomes painfully obvious he's just speaking to whatever room he's in, often making contradictory statements.

>>98480490
>Appeal to authority
Anyway, icons are meaningless and he's dead so his opinion means less than dirt. TSR era D&D was steaming hot trash and thank christ we've moved on from it.

>>98480476
On the chance you’re being serious and not sarcastic because this is a DnD thread can I have proof that this is why Gary gygax’s legacy is being shat on?
And why did it take until he was dead?
>>98480944
Proof that this is happening? Or is this the ninjago discord screenshotting all over again?

>>98480972
It's all been paid shit-flinging for demoralization's sake ever since Occupy.
COINTELPRO proved that killing a community galvanizes its base. To make them truly go away, you make the users abandon ship over time by making the site wither on the vine.

Epstein was the reason /pol/ was created.

>>98480964
>Appeal to nihilism
lol, I can do it too fucker
>TSR era D&D was steaming hot trash and thank christ we've moved on from it.
It had rough edges, but it was a uniquely fun dungeon crawling experience that later DnD editions have failed to recapture with all the streamlining and weird political shit forced into it (like you're doing right now).

>>98480373
Who are you quoting?

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>>98480419
>He seems to have been a decent guy,
He cheated on his wife, and it's hard for me to look at anyone who does that as a "decent guy". It's that special kind of betrayal that I don't think you could do and still call yourself a decent person.

What's worse is he would tell a story of how his wife thought he was cheating on her, but instead way going out to play D&D. It's not that amusing in hindsight after his infidelity came to light.

There's lots of other examples of EGG being various levels of a dirtbag, ranging from using so much cocaine that the FBI investigated him because they thought he was a major dealer in the Wisconsin area, all the weird shit involving his kids, and a really mixed bag of game design that really only straddles between almost-good and outright terrible design/advice while trying to position himself as some sort of God of Game Design.

>>98480490
he was pretty bad at designing games.

>>98481171
Neither unique nor fun, of course.

>>98480373
>encourages bad sportsmanship with kill funnels,
So long as you can escape and it's not just hp sponges or instant death, it's alright in moderation. Like always, a gm is supposed to evoke the appropriate feel so that players don't feel betrayed.
>metagaming,
DnD is unfortunately built around that. It's one of the reasons why the races and sexes are equal these days and lack identity. You are supposed to build a meta build and play a character on top of that but not during gameplay.
>and secret tests of character
Sometimes this is good, but doing it continuously is exhausting and will result in a revolt of sorts.

>>98480490
>MUH ICONS
Hero worship looks retarded when its coming from people who genuinely don't know shit about the actual person they are deifying for things he didn't do, while ignoring the things he did do.

>>98480526
Coke fiend who snorted away his fortune, cheated on his wife repeatedly despite espousing strong religious beliefs, burned bridges with countless people so he could try and become a hollywood bigshot, fucked up so hard he lost D&D, an idea he stole from one of his closest friends and then shut him out of the company they founded together.

Do you seriously think Gary was just a saintly cool dude who never did anything wrong?

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>>98481326
Can I have sources for these please?
>Do you seriously think Gary was just a saintly cool dude who never did anything wrong?

No I just think it is the same stupid pattern of famous person who made a thing dies and then his legacy gets shit all over by contrarians or grifters of any spectrum over and over.
It all usually happens after the maker of a beloved thing dies too for some odd reason.
In this case Gary Gygax who made DnD.
But funnily enough people will still enjoy DnD and make DnD stuff even if Gygax is a monster just like people who still use Lovecraft's stuff despite denouncing Lovecraft so much.

>>98480955
>Compare his different statements from different places on the internet. It becomes painfully obvious he's just speaking to whatever room he's in, often making contradictory statements.
What's notable is that those wildly varying attitudes and contradictions can be traced to two distinct eras in his life: Top of the world, mega-successful businessman Gary and Lost everything, failed repeatedly to prove that he could design a game on his own, unable to run any kind of successful business venture Gary.

The first one was the guy who was telling people with fire and brimstone in his voice that he was the final arbiters on how to play RPGs, how to run D&D, and how games should be designed. The second one, catastrophically humbled by his own retarded ambitions, was the one who would tell people its just a fucking game and to play it in a way that felt the most fun for their group, instead of looking for an authority to tell them how they were supposed to play "real" D&D

>>98481238
Lurk more.

>>98481306
>why... sexes are equal these days
Sex differences were removed before AD&D 1e, and Gary was the one who removed them.

>>98481326
>Coke fiend who snorted away his fortune
Explains the early heart issues beyond the general nerd disregard for health

>>98481361
>SOURCE?!
All of this is on his official wikipedia page, retard.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Gygax

You literally don't know shit about the guy, but you insist on defending his honor for no particular reason? Do you think he's some kind of culture war target that you have to protect? We're not saying that he's a problematic bigot who said mean things about women. This is the actual fucking history of D&D and TSR and it's all been documented and well known for decades.

>>98481361
Looking into the history of D&D, Gygax's role was actually in many ways detrimental to RPGs.

Arneson's idea wasn't that unique. There were many proto-RPGs that existed as either as board/card/mock theater games, and even in war games there were many that had players acting as generals in a greater capacity than just ordering troops, but engaging in diplomacy, planning lengthy campaigns that required resource management, and the like. During this time, proto-RPG ideas were being published in wargame fanzines, but since material published in fanzines existed in a gray area of rights, that's what gave D&D the chance to be the first "commercial" RPG.

In fact, Gygax actually rushed to get D&D published quickly because there were already plans for similar games coming out, and Gygax wanted to get the first mover advantage along with enabling him to try and get patents. The first printing of D&D was incredibly sloppy, but it served its dual purposes by becoming a nexus for contributors to build up the system while Gary did his best to gets as many laws as he could to create a monopoly for himself.

Thankfully, Gary's legal adventures proved rather unsuccessful, with him only being able to get rather minor protections for things like a dozen or so monsters and character names. But, D&D really milked that first mover advantage, and allowed itself to be shaped dramatically by the community that developed around it.

Left in Gygax's (and Arneson's) hands alone, the game would have been very different, and if we can look at the games they made outside of D&D, very much worse. While Gygax does deserve a lot of credit for what he did, had he never bothered, some other game would have become the nexus for fantasy roleplaying games, and might have even evolved beyond its stunted early form much faster than what we saw with D&D. And, if Gygax had actually succeeded at what he set out to do with patents/copyrights, it would have been stunted for decades longer.

>>98480373
he's a fake gatekeeper playing you. tell to ram it and fuck his fake ass ways. then deck him as hard as you can.

>>98481378
Sex differences are in 1st edition. See page 9 of the Players Handbook for starters. Now, they are just modern outrage bait because as soon as a player got ahold of say Gauntlets of Ogre Power, they were meaningless.

>>98481385
>SOURCE?!
Yes a source. Thank you for at least listing wikipedia so if what you said is from bullshit edits that are false then we know where it is from.
>those questions
See what I said at >>98481361 under the greentext.
It is an annoying pattern of seeing people behind big fictional things get (usually undeserved) tearing down and by those who are just grifters that hide under a blanket of social issues so you can't talk back to them on their bullshit without being accused of shit that has consequences.

I get your frustration and I think you probably have me mistaken for another anon. It is okay.
>We're not saying that he's a problematic bigot who said mean things about women.
That I know of now. As this isn't a case of someone who was depressed in the past and said bad things because mind clouded by depression or just an edgy phase or edgy jokes he left on his digital footprint.
>This is the actual fucking history of D&D and TSR and it's all been documented and well known for decades.
I will admit I never really paid much attention to DnD's publication history other than the controversy of DnD being accused of supposedly being a gateway to devil worship/witchcraft like how Harry Potter got attacked over.
I accept that I was in the wrong here as I thought the attacks were unwarranted. It still doesn't make up for how people will still consume DnD stuff while saying Gygax was a big bad.
For what it's worth I am sorry for assuming the worst out of you.
I blame this site and the other social medias for conditioning me to assume the worst in my petty defense.

>>98481492
where can I read more about this the next time I'm on the toilet or waiting for something to download like a boatload of STLs for 3D printing minis?

>>98480955
It's okay for your favorite politicians to do it.

>>98480526
He and Arneson were a couple of slap-fighting faggots. That's it. The rest is just what happens when a bunch of people who never ran a business, run a new type of business and lurch along for a couple decades gathering completely new stupid shit stories.

>>98481600
As much as I can understand your knee-jerk incredulity to seeing some deceased semi-important historical figure being denigrated, you really need to actually make sure you have a legitimate reason to give a fuck and pipe up, instead of assuming that some uppity bluehair showed up on /tg/ of all places to seethe about some dead piece of shit without ever once saying he was a problematic chud, or whatever.

>>98481615
NTA, but i genuinely believe that politicians should be fired if they are caught making bold-faced lies
this will never happen because politicians are the ones who set policy and will never act against their own interests but life would be better if there was some kind of penalty for just making things up

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>>98481671
>instead of assuming that some uppity bluehair showed up on /tg/ of all places to seethe
In my defense that usually is the case in threads like these.
Not the case this time.
Anyways I don't blame you for your responses in thinking I was a /pol/ troll or something else or worse on /tg/ given what Gary really has been.

>>98481378
>Sex differences were removed before AD&D 1e
wrong, retard. >>98481385
>you insist on defending his honor for no particular reason
NTA, but it's because EGG was based

>>98481834
>based
He was an idiot and the state of D&D today is his fault.

>>98481876
Because he failed to keep his company as he pranced into pretending he was George Lucas?

>>98480373
Gygax's group was filled with nothing but Min-Maxing That Guys and his adventure design reflected his outright contempt for those shitheels.

>>98480383
>Why are people turning on him?
He explicitly and in no uncertain terms said TTRPGs and Wargames are not for women because they by and large do not and cannot connect with the hobby or rules like men and boys can despite him trying for years to get them to do so. Any money spent trying to get women and girls into the hobby would have been better used if lit on fire because at least that would have kept you warm.

So that makes people hate him now, when it sure as hell proved itself to be correct. Women and girls DO play TTRPGs and Wargames but at such a small percentage catering to them is fucking dumb AND the women and girls that enjoy the hobby like it for the EXACT same reason the males do, so catering to the outside group of girls is EXTRA retarded. Just keep it male and math focused, that's what keeps your bread buttered.

>>98481980
There's definitely been some shit slinging from WotC employees who want to retroactively cancel a deadman for having a random table of prostitutes or saying that women are dumb. But that's not the real problem people genuinely have with Gygax. Not helping things is the poseur BrOSR faggots going around trying to make out Gygax to be some kind of based giga-chad badass, when he was a bumbling incompetent dumbass for the majority of his life. He mismanaged D&D, he fumbled OSR right into Lorraine's hands, and he eagerly ran to support WotC because they bought him out of any rights to D&D entirely, and he needed the money because he had fucked up so hard.

>>98482001
>he fumbled TSR* right into Lorraine's hands,

>>98482001
>He mismanaged D&D, he fumbled OSR right into Lorraine's hands,

That was the Blumes who mismanaged TSR while Gygax was off trying to turn D&D into a media IP in Hollywood (and was succeeding). He then brought in Lorraine to fix things after he return, but then got backstabbed by her when the Blumes sold their stock to her.

>>98482187
That's just him fumbling with extra steps.

>>98482219
Fumbling is him making a mistake. Bringing someone like Lorraine in after the Blumes had made a mess was arguably the right thing to do. Gygax had no control over the Blumes giving controlling interest to Lorraine so saying he fumbles control of TSR into Lorraine's hands is misconstruing the situation to place blame on Gygax rather than those actually at fault.

>>98482067
He gave it to the Blume brothers while he snorted more coke than Nick Rekieta trying to make it Hollywood. The Blume brothers ran it into the ground in his absence, and he pissed them off so much that they turned to Lorraine Williams who I believe Gary had brought on to boot him out. And judging by the utter failure of stuff like Lejendary Adventures, and how a lot of the stuff Lorraine greenlit is being used to print money to this day by WotC, good riddance.

>>98482252
Gygax was not some poor widdle smol bean. The Blumes were his direct reports. And their failures and his inattention to them reflect on Gygax as a shit leader.

>>98480383
>Also why are a lot of dnd fans turning on him and saying he was bad?
You're 30 years late bud. People realized Gary was a shit DM and didn't have a fucking clue decades ago.
>If he was genuinely bad wouldn’t people move from dnd?
They did, his company went under, he gave up all his ambitions, and most people don't play or run things the way he did. There's a niche of larpers who pretend to, but most of them are too busy anklebiting to play at all, let alone the way Gary did.

>>98481688
>In my defense that usually is the case in threads like these.
Like when?

>>98482297
>and how a lot of the stuff Lorraine greenlit is being used to print money to this day by WotC,
That's not really fair, because she didn't really understand games and her flawed banking and publishing practices had TSR spending a lot of money on stuff that would never turn a profit. The stuff she greenlit that was good was stuff she didn't pay attention to and just allowed to burn through cash the company didn't have, while she focused her attention on shit like her Buck Rogers games, novels, and comics, which also just burned money the company didn't have, but burned it in a direction that Williams found pleasing.

She was born rich and only became part of TSR because Gygax wanted her as an investor and she turned that into a job interview.

Now, the reason she was born rich? Her grandpa published Buck Rogers, and her family still held the rights to the character. So, she turned TSR into a machine that funneled money made from roleplaying games into shit like the license to use an outdated character that the CEO's family owned. When everything went tits up because TSR couldn't pay its printers so they couldn't keep making games to keep siphoning cash from, Williams sold TSR after her family had been paying itself to try and restore relevancy to a character nobody had cared about for decades

The best stuff TSR made during this time was stuff with very little corporate oversight. Dark Sun was literally just a few guys asking Brom to make some art and they turned that into a setting. Ed Greenwood and his Forgotten Realms were doing whatever they wanted because they were one of the few TSR lines that actually had consistent profits.

Gygax did not do a good job running his company and lost it. But, Williams was not much better and arguably worse, because she was more transparently self-serving at the expense of games, while Gygax seems to have at least genuinely loved games even if they would be better off without him having creative control over them.

>>98482463
Williams just sounds like Fem Gygax. An idiot who didn't realize she'd hit a full blown gold mine.

>>98481171
>lol, I can do it too fucker
That's not a fallacy, nor what I was doing. You don't even know what the word Nihilism means, nor anything about either branch of the philosophy.
>It had rough edges
Yeah, in the same way a bag of used razor blades has rough edges.
>but it was a uniquely fun dungeon crawling experience
And that's all it did because it was a shitty hack of a shitty wargame that only dealt with combat.
>later DnD editions have failed to recapture
As of around AD&D the system began moving away from just being loot and stab simulator and towards a real roleplaying game. It wasn't a failure, it was a conscious choice to move away from meat grinder hallway sims focused on loot with no greater reason.
>streamlining
Have you SEEN the 3.5 spell list? That shit was anything BUT streamlined. There are like 15 different "Find X" or "protection from Y" spells and thank god those got compressed in 5e into like 2-3 spells, that shit is obnoxious and utterly pointless. And before that, AD&D and other TSR era editions, the systems were actually far simpler rather than more complex, to the point they were a pain in the ass to run.
>weird political shit
Oh yeah, no TTRPG has EVER dealt with political shit. Oh wait, it's called CYBERPUNK and it's A WHOLE GENRE CRITICIZING CORPORATE CULTURE AND SOCIETY. And don't get me started on Dark Sun, Dark Sun is literally a setting where all the bad guys are evil authoritarian sorcerer-kings, some of which have CHILD SEX SLAVES who are ruining the environment of the planet in a world where the gods have just fucked off. It's pro-environmentalism, anti-authoritarianism, and anti-slavery. It's going to get re-released and you're going to say 2026's version is woke when it's always been what you'd call woke (when it's not, not by a longshot).
>(like you're doing right now)
Yep, that's what I did, even though I mentioned nothing about politics in that post. Retard.

>>98482523
They're people who got their hands on a geese that laid golden eggs and greedily cut it open to try to get all the gold out at once.

>>98482659
>>98482463
>>98482001
Gary Gygax help make TTRPG to what they were today. The problem was he wasn't really a business person and the people around him were worse. However, he was doing good when he was trying to make it a media IP. If the people didn't fumble the ball back at home, I could see a quite a few films and shows of the worlds in D&D in the late 80s and in the 90s pop up.

Now I agree that the older systems and rules aren't the best in the world. However, most system tend to refine themself from D&D. Also let's be fucking honest. The fucking fags and aunt karens fucking hate any white man they can't make gay or an ally. Especially if they can't push them to the side to highlight a women, gay or non-white in said group as the true visionary.

>>98482784
>Also let's be fucking honest.
That's one of those "The next thing this person is gonna say he's gonna end up regretting" phrases.

>The fucking fags and aunt karens fucking hate any white man they can't make gay or an ally.

As a straight white man who has never voted democrat, I can say it's very easy to dislike Gygax, and his contributions to RPGs should not be exaggerated to the point where he's some sort of revered icon, especially not as some revered icon of white maledom, if that's even a thing. If you think fags and karens hate him just because he's a white man, you're really not helping matters by worshiping him just because he's a white man. That's not how things balance out. You evaluate him based on reality, and ignore everyone who fails to do that.

>>98482807
>That's one of those "The next thing this person is gonna say he's gonna end up regretting" phrases.
All I got to say to cancel anything you said and will say is "Am I fucking wrong?" Are you telling me they don't fucking do this shit? We haven't seen left leaning fags and karens do that very thing. You might say you're a "straight white man who hasn't voted democrat" but you're making me want to push X right now.
>You evaluate him based on reality, and ignore everyone who fails to do that.
Like my whole last post saying he started the TTRPG craze in the 70s and 80s. Admitting that his work isn't the best compare to today. Though that's like comparing the first computers to a computer today. Hell, even a computer back in the 80s and 90s compare to one today.

Again, I never once said he was a "Saint of White Maledom." However, this is the classic commie BS of attacking anything that they can't make theirs and removing the old figures to replace with theirs. The CCP did it, the USSR did it, the leftists are trying to do it. I mean, come on.

>>98482858
>he started the TTRPG craze in the 70s and 80s.
Except he didn't and actually tried his best to monopolize it. The craze happened in part despite him rather than because of him.

If we go by who "started it", that would be Arneson. If we go by who made D&D popular, that would actually be the largely uncredited community who helped shape D&D into so much more than what Gygax even imagined RPGs were or could be. The guy was always a step behind understanding what RPGs were or what they could be, with even people contracted to work for TSR like Holmes making large design leaps that Gygax would only add to his post-D&D games.

He's a guy who flunked out of both college and the army and only ever got average grades in school. He was just not all that smart (or fit, in the army's case) in the grand scheme of things, and most of his success was from luck and an as-of-yet unknown source of manic energy.

He deserves credit where it's due, but he likely worked harder to build a cult around himself than he actually did making games. Even the reason Arneson approached Gygax was because he thought Gygax was responsible for Chainmail, when most of those rules were made by Gygax's co-author.

>>98482888
Both him and Arneson made it. Like Stan Lee and Steve Ditko made Spider-Man.

Again I love how the game he made was trash, to even didn't even make it to begin with. Yes, it was group effort and not just Gary. However, your mask keeps slipping with the anything and everything you can to attack Gygax however you can. D&D was the game to bring in the TTRPG crazy that's a fact. This was the "FIRST" however this was the one that blew up. Like how Super Mario 64 wasn't the first 3D platformer. However it was the first golden standard for 3d platformers that everyone would compare them to.

>>98481876
That's just your opinion, and I don't give a fuck about it you retarded demoralization agent

>>98482928
>Both him and Arneson made it. Like Stan Lee and Steve Ditko made Spider-Man.
More like Bob Kane and Bill Finger making Batman.

>>98482930
They hate they can't turn him gay, trans and that he was a "white boy with some motion."

>>98482937
God, you just can't help yourself can you? Thanks for proving my point.

>>98482955
Your point is I'm a gay woman and no one else is allowed to call out the weird shit where retards try to make it seem like Gygax was the father of RPGs and not just the guy who worked the hardest to make people think that.

>>98482960
See this is why I keep saying your mask is falling. I never once call you a gay woman or anything. However you act like a leftist. Especially pushing your I am a white man so if I say the same thing as the woke fags who hate Gary. The rest can't blow it off as racist/sexist. That's classic woke fag tactics and viewpoints. However you pushing and insisting you're a white male is make me question even that now. Like a toddler who says they didn't have any candy when no one asked. People are going to start wondering.

>>98482976
>mask falling
You're one of those "my accusations are really my confessions" fellows, eh?

You have your politics. They color your world and leave you retarded, just as retarded as the gay women.

And, when someone tells you flatly that no, politics don't play a part in why they disagree with you, what do you do?

It's the classic "actions speak louder than words." You can't help to tell on yourself and then whine no one will believe you. I swear, you're like a dumbass who keeps bluffing and can't understand how quickly people learn you can't bluff worth shit.

>>98481378
Lurk more.

>>98481615
what favorite politicians?

>>98482659
I know a hell of a lot more about it than you bitch :)

>>98482784
>Gary Gygax help make TTRPG to what they were today.
That's not a good thing.

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>>98482659
>That's not a fallacy
Yes it is. "Nothing matters because everyone dies hurr durr" is one of the most fallacious and retarded statements ever made.
>And that's all it did because it was a shitty hack of a shitty wargame that only dealt with combat.
You never played ADnD, lol
>As of around AD&D the system began moving away from just being loot and stab simulator and towards a real roleplaying game.
Gygax is the guy who made ADnD. Sounds like you should be praising him then.
>it was a conscious choice to move away from meat grinder hallway sims focused on loot with no greater reason.
Dungeon crawling in its purest form is itself fun. If you don't enjoy it that's on you. Stop acting like your opinion is the only opinion in the universe.
>thank god those got compressed in 5e into like 2-3 spells, that shit is obnoxious and utterly pointless
You don't know what the word streamlining means retard. You can add more spells while streamlining the magic system. 3.0 standardized magic and spells in a way that was not present in ADnD. But it's not just the magic.
>Oh yeah, no TTRPG has EVER dealt with political shit.
Why do retards always spew this stinking horseshit when you call them out on being obvious drones of a political ideology?
>Oh wait, it's called CYBERPUNK and it's A WHOLE GENRE CRITICIZING CORPORATE CULTURE AND SOCIETY.
Damn, you're actually seething huh? It's too bad DnD isn't Cyberpunk, and you're screeching at a computer screen for nothing.
>And don't get me started on Dark Sun,
Yeah. That's exactly my point. Weird political bullshit forced into DnD. Thanks for proving me right I guess?
> even though I mentioned nothing about politics
You're not nearly as clever as you think you are. You wear yours on your sleeve in every post. Ignorant, hateful, and nihilistic.

>>98483001
No U though.

>>98481171
>dungeon crawling
Just play a video game

>>98483707
join a book club

>>98483686
That's not what nihilism is, you dumb faggot.

>>98483717
Already a member. Post the notes from your last session, with a timestamp.

>>98483722
traditional games?

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>>98483734
It was an instaderail. People "know" Gygax for better or for worse. But they don't really get that he went showman as soon as media got a whiff of him. Or how much he didn't really oversee the rewriting into AD&D other than to freeze out Arneson because he was trying to run a company with no clue.

*Game Wizards* is a decent enough book to recommend for an overview of business side of things. It goes from before Gygax and Arneson collaborated, through the initial pushing of the product, to Lorraine's play for ousting Gygax.

It isn't an end all be all but it gives a time line and enough for people interested to search articles and the court cases. I think Futurama's portrayal definitely had an effect on people treating him more kindly, like the person defending him for whatever reason.

>>98482784
>Gary Gygax help make TTRPG to what they were today.
In the sense that the Egyptians also did because of their contributions to literature, sure.
>The problem was he wasn't really a business person
The problem was he was fucking retarded and deliberately surrounded himself with retards.
>Now I agree that the older systems and rules aren't the best in the world.
The older systems are straight up terrible which is why everyone stopped playing them.
>However, most system tend to refine themself from D&D
No they aren't.
>Politisperging
Get off twitter and get a life faggot, you're wrong about everything.

>>98483686
>You never played ADnD, lol
I have.
He completely and accurately described it to a T.
>Dungeon crawling in its purest form is itself fun
If you're an autist with niche tastes, sure. Watching paint dry in its purest form can be fun too by that metric though.
>You don't know what the word streamlining means retard. You can add more spells while streamlining the magic system.
t. Guy who thinks the most comprehensive simulationist edition of D&D ever "streamlined" anything.
You confuse the removal of pointless complexity for streamlining, and then act like it's a bad thing.
>Weird political bullshit forced into DnD
Dark Sun is a setting.
>You're not nearly as clever as you think you are. You wear yours on your sleeve in every post.
How ironic coming from the loser who has no arguments but "You disagree with me politically!"

>>98484095
I'd also like to make an anti-recommendation against Ben Riggs and his book "Slaying the Dragon" because the guy is a huge faggot who worships Gygax and D&D as the most important things to ever happen in human history. He gave himself the title of "D&D Historian" and passed off some gossip and secondhand rumors as the super duper secret history of TSR and D&D, but all of the actual history had been known and covered better for decades at that point, and Riggs adds nothing to the conversation. Also, he unironically calls Gygax "Saint Gary" the entire time, which is extra funny because when the discourse about Gygax being sexist surfaced a couple years ago, Riggs joined the side of shitting on Gygax, and then tried to claim he was being ironic by deifying him.

>>98485180
Heh, D&D Historian. But yeah it's just a symptom of the nonsense when autism and self importance are left to their own devices.

>>98481980
>despite him trying for years to get them to do so
This just means he is a retard though.

>>98481688
No it isn’t, the last 10 years of /tg/ is just normie rightoid invaders crying out in pain as they strike us, shut the fick up already.
Also can we talk about how D&D is supposed to be entering public domain this year (but isn’t because Disney changed the law)?
Love the forward in AD&D where Gygax credits himself (reluctantly) as the sole authority and creator (he only made AD&D to steal the game from Arneson).

>>98485180
>deifying him
>Saing Gary
Acktually that would be beatifying him.

>>98482463
Gary Gygax makes Lorraine Williams look like a steady hand by comparison. And to some extent, what she's guilty of was common across the publishers of the era because the market was poorly understood. White Wolf committed seppuku not long after because of similar problems with splatbook cannibalization.

>>98486067
Wasn't that also caused by investors going "f these faggy nerds, we have an IP to exploit!" though?

>>98482001
>he fumbled OSR right into Lorraine's hands
It’s even worse than that, really. Gary arranged matters so that Lorraine was unambiguously better for the game’s health than he was. And that’s a fucking achievement.
The bit that always sticks with me is how he got everyone to sign incredibly predatory contracts by signing the same contracts himself…then, after years of fucking people over with them, he was shocked and insulted by the mere suggestion that the contracts he signed might also be enforceable.

>>98482187
>but then got backstabbed by her when the Blumes sold their stock to her.
Yeah, that’s how he liked to tell it. A cursory amount of digging shows that the Blumes had been trying to sell to him for far longer. He was trying to sweat them out, force them to lower their asking prices so that he could get the company for nickels on the dime. The bank was breathing down the company’s neck at that point, but he was too laser-focused on fucking over the Blumes to notice how hard he was fucking himself in the process.
Hell, look into the settlement Lorraine offered him in the lawsuit. He could have walked away a rich man with ongoing rights to the D&D brand. He turned it down because he couldn’t stand the idea of not getting everything.

>>98486139
>Hell, look into the settlement Lorraine offered him in the lawsuit. He could have walked away a rich man with ongoing rights to the D&D brand. He turned it down because he couldn’t stand the idea of not getting everything.
KWAB

>>98486047
Gygax's and Arneson's relationship was complicated, in part because both of them were handed something neither really earned via talent and barely understood as it grew away from their own limited ideas and imagination. The game sold far better than either of them expected it to sell, and neither of them were the right people to be in charge of a massive media empire, while both of them thought they were the ones who deserved to control it.

Gygax made AD&D for more reasons beyond trying to stop paying Arneson royalties and otherwise cut him out of the game, but it was a part of it, and you can't really blame Gygax for wanting Arneson out. His ideas just weren't that great. The problem is that Gygax's own ideas were not that much better.

Both of their post D&D careers were incredibly mediocre, and their limits as designers was evident even just from what they did with D&D. When Gygax got ousted, Arneson approached TSR to try and have him put in charge of D&D, and TSR largely ignored him.

It was like if the Wright brothers wanted to run a plane factory in the jet age, if their own knowledge had stopped at getting some wire and plywood to stay airborn for under a minute.

>>98486139
>Hell, look into the settlement Lorraine offered him in the lawsuit.
I mean, I doubt it was all that—
>$17 million
>in 1985
Jesus, Gary, what was wrong with you?

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>>98483721
You don't know what nihilism is, and probably have never opened a book in your life.
>>98485112
>I have.
>He completely and accurately described it to a T.
Samefag less obviously retard. Weird that he described ADnD as not having the same elements that he later praised ADnD for adding to the game, though.
>If you're an autist with niche tastes
RPGs aren't niche.
>Watching paint dry in its purest form
Then don't play TTRPGs if you hate them so much.
>t. Guy who thinks the most comprehensive simulationist edition of D&D ever
Once again you prove not to have a single clue what any of the words you're saying mean. 3.0 streamlined huge amounts of jank from ADnD by standardizing rulesets into something more simulationist. Simulationism is not the opposite of streamlining, streamlining is the removal of nonstandardized content and parts from a device or game system.
>You confuse the removal of pointless complexity for streamlining,
That is literally the textbook definition of streamlining, yes.
>and then act like it's a bad thing.
It's not always bad. But you always lose something when you remove bespoke complexity to appeal to a wider audience.
>Dark Sun is a setting.
You're the one who said it's political, are you now backpedaling?
>How ironic coming from the loser who has no arguments but "You disagree with me politically!"
You literally haven't said a single correct thing since the start of the thread. You also haven't said a single apolitical thing since the start of the thread. Don't blame me for calling out obvious /pol/drone starts shitting up the board with his personal freak problems.

>>98486260
>Samefag
Incorrect. The rest of your post can be disregarded because if you're wrong about something that obvious, you're clearly wrong about everything else you blather about.

>>98484095
>Or how much he didn't really oversee the rewriting into AD&D
You're mixing up history. Gygax was heavily involved with ADnD 1e, he only stepped back for ADnD 2nd edition when he was trying to transition into more of a producer than a key designer. The relatively lower success of 2nd edition is heavily attributed to Gygax's absence from the creative side of production.

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>>98486268
Wow, you really are seething huh?

>>98486278
>I-I'm not mad at all! See! I posted laughinganimegirl12.jpg I'm not mad!
Getting your arguments thrown out all at once like that really did a number on your ego.

Imagine insulting based Gary on /tg/ of all places. Go back, troon. In this house, we respect Gygaxian D&D

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>>98486288
Your bait is getting worse and worse with every post. You can do better than that.

Took him a while to find that one huh?

The worst thing gygax did was help create a hobby the souless miserable faggots itt can pretend to get enjoyment from while they stomp on its corpse.

>>98486220
He was arrogant and mediocre. He basically had to continually eat shit for about 20 years until he chilled out and saw the first real success in decades with his work with Troll Lord on C&C.

>>98486292
Gygax was a hack and Jaquays (a troon) was a more talented module designer than him
Seethe

>>98488607
>Troon
>Talented

The levels of self-deception can be quite impressive, but besides that, everything they make or adopt turns to shit, because of the self-obsessed perversion that has taken over their life entirely.

>>98486292
>based Gary
Tell us why he's based. Surely you have real opinions of the guy and aren't guilty of pretending you care about him just because of some petty twitter culture war bullshit?

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>>98488766
>doesn't know about Jaquays
lol, confirmed newfaggot larper

>>98481243
Cheating on wives isn based. Cheating is only bad when women do it. It's only necessary to "cheat" because our evil christian slave morality prevents men from having multiple wives, mistresses and concubines as the true gods intended. But it's impossible for a man to "cheat" on a woman because he owes her nothing. A woman exists to serve and please her man, which is why it's unacceptable for her to cheat.

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>>98488766
>>98490870
Paul was a manic with sexual hangups, troon was just another flavour of dumb shit he made his identity that time. Guy said all manner of silly shit over the years.

>>98491109
You are a degenerate and are neither based, nor moral, nor do you have any true ethics behind your posturing. Half-assedly misappropriating the bible while ignoring the full context of the mutual loyalty and subservience between man and wife exposes you for the satanic faggot that you are.

>>98488607
once again the fags keep trying to replace founders with a random troon/queer that happen to be contracted for something. Jaquays got to make a few good modules. However, they weren't the best as they were others that were just better. I swear, queers will cry just cause one of the contracted helps was queer that now the whole thing is queer, even though the whole main group wasn't gay or anything.

>>98494385
>replace founders
No one with a handful of braincells to rub together would deny Gygax's involvement in the creation and promotion of D&D. The guy was just a piece of shit and not even half as good of a game designer as culture warrior twitter shitters pretend he was. This is plainly evident by the two terrible games he made after losing ownership of D&D, which no one ever talks about and not even the BrOSR poseurs even acknowledge, because it doesn't align with their flimsy "TRVE D&D" shtick.

>>98491379
He's a troll you dumbass.

>>98494396
The fuck are you talking about? We seen people celebrated him all the fucking time as a DM and all.

>>98488766
>The levels of self-deception can be quite impressive, but besides that, everything they make or adopt turns to shit, because of the self-obsessed perversion that has taken over their life entirely.
The chudcope that nobody other than their idealized self could be good at anything ever is always funny. Troons are insane perverts. They also tend to be skilled at things they direct their autistic obsessions at. These are not contradictory, unless you're a genuine retarded supremacist.

>>98494396
lol, fishfag worships jayquays, can this fag get any faggier?

>>98494643
No one is saying troons and fags can't be skilled at things. However, they have shown they can't help themselves and end up fucking everything up ruining their work if they stay on it too long. Especially these days. Look at Dr. Who, that queer writer was good at one point then went full TDS and burnt the whole IP to virtue signal and hate on straight white males. You know, the show's biggest fanbase and is shocked everyone left and it killed the series. Also they tend to gatekeep everyone else but whines if they don't get the job that they were gatekept from the job. I have a feeling that we will see people start gatekeeping the left hard after all this shit they causes trying to "own the chuds"

>>98494683
They have to latch onto the known "queer" and act like they were the only one to make "X" good. We see it time and time again. If they can't find a queer, women, or POC they go for the ally.

>>98494685
>No one is saying troons and fags can't be skilled at things
That is exactly what >>98488766 said.

>Look at Dr. Who
Dr Who was not a writer.
If you're just too hysterical to write properly and are claiming Doctor Who's fall off was because of le reddit derangement, it's not. Its popularity had ended before chuds even knew who the orange nigger even was. It had a good run of popularity, some hardcore fans clung onto it, and eventually fell off because it didn't catch a trend again and got stale.

>Also they tend to gatekeep everyone else but whines if they don't get the job that they were gatekept from the job. I have a feeling that we will see people start gatekeeping the left hard after all this shit they causes trying to "own the chuds"
Been hearing this for 30 years btw. Never happens. Why does the pendulum never swing in favor of you fucking retards? It's because you're genuinely repulsive to normal people and unlike troons chuds are too stupid+cowardly to do anything but cry.

This especially applies to ttrpgs. Nobody appeals to you fucks because there's no money in it. The best you'll ever get are small personality cults.

>>98494704
As for the TTRPGS, you don't make shit. You DEI your way into companies and took over via HR. Why do you think D&D 5.5 tanked? It the same with comics, you didn't make your own. you took over established companies like Marvel and DC. At least back in the day you had limited amount of skill writing positions. So they at least could keep the quality good. However, when they started pushing DEI and flooded comics with woke shit. They couldn't keep the quality good and let the karens in which couldn't make shit but just make their bad Tumblr OCs owning the chuds and nagging the fuck out of everyone or being queer. I mean it was a fucking joke how bad comics got when they let them in.

>>98494833
Not reading, you lost the argument because you can't admit to your inability to write. GGEZ faggot.

>>98494838
>Fag rage quitting cause he got nothing
Cope and seethe queer. You know it to be true, but go on about being a grammar nazi and everything.

>>98494890
>Even if let's say you win
Chuds can't win even in their fantasies lmaoooo. No fucking wonder every industry has kicked you freaks to the curb.

>>98494901
Oh god you're retarded. I swear you people are a stunning promotion for abortion, and I am against baby murder.

>Traditional... games...?
>no... political soapbox!
>t. chud mcnogames

>>98495014
Saying "no you" doesn't work here dumbass. You're not owning anyone with that gay shit

gygax was a gay fag last post

>retard humiliates himself
>some anons laugh
>anons proceeds to derail the thread with schizo babble arguments with himself
I'd kill to have nazimod back...

>>98480373
How much of this is true, and how much of it is ascended rumor?
Even then, pick up and play gaming at a con isn't the same as a long running game at your FLGS or home, and people seem to want to conflate the two.

>>98494751
>Are you retarded?
Nah he's just pretending to be for strategic reasons.
You know how it goes, I know how it goes, by this point mindless, brainless, godless things that live at the bottom of the ocean and have no conception of sunlight know how it goes.