nothing that has ever used an adventurer guild has ever made an effort
hope this helps!

>>98488902
Elder Scrolls. Fighter and Mages' Guild both. Especially in Morrowind.

>>98488902
Traveller.

>>98488902
anon, you're asking for too much. most writers don't know about the ox cart problem or how medieval towns fed themselves so any kind of logistics and politics derived from them is gonna be horrendous. I hate the anime trope of an adventure guild that is perfectly connected throughout the world but has little to no political agenda. it reeks of third class world building

>>98488994
>>98488902
The problem from a storytelling perspective is that integrating it too much turns it into either a shadow government oligarchy (fun but perhaps too weird) or a permanent chain around the protagonist's ankle.

>>98488902
There’s a lot of slop isekai/fantasy that do that. “The Capital's One-Man Army Golem Master” for instance. But it’s not exactly /tg/. You’re probably thinking of something like the Pathfinder’s Society.

>>98489063
then just leave it out. there is nothing gained from adventurers guilds if you don't have the balls to incorporate them properly into your world. you could have the exact same effect with allied lords writing regular letters to each others to keep up to date with local happenings. this would also be less strenuous to explain logistically speaking since rich people writing letters is less uncommon than a guild network (which never historically existed that way)

>>98488994
i too watched that youtube channel and am now an expert

>>98489325
>there is nothing gained from adventurers guilds
it explains where your character lives, where they get work, why they are around other like-minded murderhobos, and why they can be looking for eagle eggs one session and then killing rats in another

> this would also be less strenuous to explain logistically speaking since rich people writing letters is less uncommon than a guild network
adventurers guild fits in more with the average player who prefers variety in quests over any worldbuilding detail

>>98489358
those are some real concerns though that never seem to get addressed. living in rural europe you get a feeling for these things naturally but urbanized "intellectuals" take so many things for granted it's insane

>>98489375
>those are some real concerns though that never seem to get addressed.
if any of my players ever ask dumb questions about where everything comes from, i will just have a bespectacled scholar come in and start to give a long-winded explanation and the players will have to make a DC 30 WIS check to stay awake or else take psychic damage from how boring it is

>>98488964
They are both boring and don't really make sense either

>>98489370
what would be the problem in handling this diagetically? instead of having a virtually endless supply of quests sourced from a perfectly connected organization that does nothing else than cater to murderhobos like you so eloquently called them, you could have a string of naturally connecting tasks.

for example after helping the farmers with their rat problem the local guard commander commends you and asks for assistance with some bandits, then after getting your bounty from the lord the court wizard approaches you with a quest to find some runestones and after returning those the lord, impressed with you track record, buys your assistance in protecting an important shipment to the next border town. rinse and repeat.

this way you actually interact with the people inhabiting the world and not just treat them as temporarily essential NPCs. also it naturally escalates the stakes in a desirable and controllable pace. if you can't handle politics that fine just don't act like they don't exist

>>98489461
>you could have a string of naturally connecting tasks.
its called having a job and the players deciding to take it

>for example after helping the farmers with their rat problem the local guard commander commends you and asks for assistance with some bandits
for this session the guildmaster wants you take care of some rats

>then after getting your bounty from the lord the court wizard approaches you with a quest to find some runestones and after returning those the lord,
the guildmaster is impressed by your performance and gives you another job

>impressed with you track record, buys your assistance in protecting an important shipment to the next border town. rinse and repeat.
the guildmaster tells you to go protect a shipment

>this way you actually interact with the people inhabiting the world and not just treat them as temporarily essential NPCs
the players go out to do their quest, they meet funny NPCs there
they might even bring one back with them

>if you can't handle politics that fine just don't act like they don't exist
the guildmaster is doing important political work, but he tells the players that this will bore them
because it will
so they go out and look for 20 bear asses

>>98489461
The example you provided would be taken by some tables as “railroading”, anon. What if the player doesn’t care about the local bandits and wants to go exploring a dungeon, for example?

Like it’s not exactly a secret that the concept of an adventuring guild was made first in video games then in ttrpgs as a matter of convenience entirely for the benefit of the players to just hand wave shit they don’t care about to get to the brass tacks. If you don’t like it, that’s fine, don’t include it. But tugging at that string too hard is like asking why people choose to play in Faerun compared to every other D&D setting. Some people just like it that way, some people are just too lazy to pick something else and just want to get to the game.

>>98489506
>Like it’s not exactly a secret that the concept of an adventuring guild was made first in video games then in ttrpgs as a matter of convenience
it predates video games and started in japanese DnD scene
because the japanese tended to play with drop-in characters, so they needed an agreed upon reason as to why their characters changed rosters in between sessions
and you could put your characters on DnD magazine for other people to borrow in their own games and if they died there, then the adventurer guild would be the ones to find and revive them so that the magazine wouldnt turn into an obituary for all your characters

having a guild that employed an eclectic mix of warriors and wizards on a per-job basis and had all the services that they might need including supplies and revival was a result of having to play in the early 80s

>>98489408
mages guild more so. in skyrim they are described as secluded and unaffected by politics so it makes perfect sense for them to exist like they do. the locals have not enough power throwing them out while profiting from the stream of students and the guild has not enough interest in the world to meddle in affairs outside the college so long as they are left alone especially considering pissing enough people off could get an alliance against them going with how little birds trust mages in general. so everyone is more or less happy with this equilibrium and nothing needs to change

>>98489540
Fair enough. I’d been thinking of the super old crusty crpgs where the characters all meet in a literal tavern to recruit guys for adventure in the same manner, but good to know the history for it.

>>98489506
no one is forced to accept these quests but they naturally progress the story. if your players want to dick around the forest picking flowers for a wreath competition, by all means let them do it. but players can't expect to progress their characters if they never engage in anything interesting.

to stay with your example of dungeon delving, there are a ton of ways "rerouting" the players naturally. maybe a group of adventurers tried recently to loot the same dungeon just for most of them to get killed. the sole survivor barricaded himself in a supply room and explains upon rescue what the party should do next. or the party gets cursed while looting a grave and need to find someone proficient enough to lift the curse (its only effect is that the players can't be farther than 30 feet away from each other). this annoys the party enough to get the problem of wasting time fixed and distracts them from whatever bullshit they wanted to engage in

File: Lona_board.jpg (202 KB, 1200x898)

202 KB JPG

>>98488902
I can think of couple examples. Yeah, definitely in cahoots with local lord, and loosely cooperating with guilds in other cities, doubling as messaging relay / postal service.
Big question is whether quest declared by one guild should be collectable at another and how do they prevent fraud.

>>98489491
>trust me bro, the guild master covers everything
>there is no need for a lived-in world with actual characters interacting with each other
>I'm too dumb to think things through therefore you would be bored if I had to explain them
sincerely sneed

>>98489642
>trust me bro, the guild master covers everything
thats his job, handing you jobs

>there is no need for a lived-in world with actual characters interacting with each other
they can interact with a ton of characters wherever they are going

>I'm too dumb to think things through therefore you would be bored if I had to explain them
we have 3 hours a week an we have people dropping in and out every time so we cant do anything long
having a guild handle all the background stuff and we can have a monster-of-the-week format works perfectly well

>>98489615
>no one is forced to accept these quests
>there are a ton of ways "rerouting" the players naturally
At that point it’s be easier to say “Okay guys, I didn’t have anything else prepared, so we doing this or what?” rather than faffing about pestering them into going down the “right” path

>>98489540
>because the japanese tended to play with drop-in characters, so they needed an agreed upon reason as to why their characters changed rosters in between sessions
Given open table dnd was done without guilds before that, it in no way needs the concept. Its part of japanese cultural values of being encapsulated by state apparatus, told what to do, when and where and being rewarded for it with more thing to do. Its thought terminating on purpose and makes for boring as fuck games for boring as fuck people.

File: guild mafia.jpg (117 KB, 720x1088)

117 KB JPG

>>98488902
Make it the equivalent to a big crime syndicate

>>98489792
>, it in no way needs the concept
the reason your players left is because they were in a different job at the moment
the reason for his replacement is because they were available
it streamlines the replacement process and it works even if you cant ask the player who left as to what their character was doing at this moment

its very simple and elegant

>>98489666
I'm sorry I didn't think of people playing weekly one offs. wouldn't be something for me. if I'm not able to inhabit the world, why even roleplay to begin with? why not just spitball ideas with your buddies instead of bothering with the whole table top aspects when nothing you do this week ever matters a week after?

>>98489691
if your DM has a written story for his campaign, there is no way he could ever be so unprepared as to not indulge his players. that's why politics/world building /lore matters. the world around the party goes on and there is a natural progression to events. if the party decides to not engage with the plot, the plot should be able to carry on without them. think that green text where the party overthrows the government for gay rights just for the lich to end the world since nobody stopped him. if the entire campaign is dead in its tracks just because the party decides glorb the goblin needs some new boots it really is the DMs fault

>>98489814
Just because it's a sequence of one offs doesn't mean there can't be overarching continuity. Imagine the whole pool of players as a mercenary company with whoever being present on given week is the task force selected for that particular mission.

>>98489852
feels like a saturday morning cartoon format desu. I'm not saying it's bad, just that I think it doesn't invite as much engagement

>>98489836
You seem to be espousing for a campaign where the players’ presence is optional, given that the “story” progresses regardless of whether or not they’re involved. Which makes me wonder why you’d run such a campaign if their impact is minimal on whatever you’ve got planned.

>>98489885
the impact the party has on the campaign is influenced directly by how much the players interact with the campaign

maybe the DM planned for the party to continue the journey by boat but the party burned down the port. this doesn't mean that you wrote yourself in a dead end but rather that you need to get creative. maybe the party steals a military barge that was sent to investigate (impacting the campaign) or they strike a deal with a merchant to get picked up with the next ship that come through for resupply.

or if the party was supposed to get their next contract from the king but killed him for some reason, there are a million ways of sending them on their way that feel organic. maybe the new king pardons them and sends them away on some suicide mission because he doesn't want them around. or the party gets chased out of town by loyalists and fall in with a bunch of revolutionaries that give them their next quest

seriously, you guys always act like DMing is so complicated but a little creativity can go a long way

>>98490061
Nah, I DM regularly, and you talk like you read about DMing more than actually doing it and believe yourself to be more clever than you really are.

>>98489325
>>98489461
>>98489642
>>98489615
This deteriorated from inquisitive into stark raving hostility in record time.
I'm increasingly convinced that there's a concerted effort to ruin the last vestiges of the old internet deliberately.

>>98490122
all you did was going "no u" with no counterargument presented. if anything stated was wrong just point it out and explain why it's wrong. but you seem to be so bad at formulating your thoughts that you believe creative writing is hard

>ctrl+F "Etrian Odyssey"
>0 results
Tasteless board.

>>98490196
Alright.

The main issue I have with your proposal was stated before, that it seems to operate primarily in a scenario where actual player input is minimal to the intended story you want you tell. Most games are usually framed by the player and their characters’ motivations because that’s who the game is centered around, and it allows the GM to focus on creating a questline that will appeal to them more naturally rather than try to basically pester or punish them into getting back on track.

In ither words, you act like GMing should be about planning everything out ten sessions ahead of time and damn the players if they scoot outside your plans, when I’ve had more success just planning two or three sessions ahead so I can pivot easier should the players become bored or stuck without the unnecessary work of prodding them back into formation every time something catches their fancy.

>>98488902
Two as examples of doing the concept well:

The first would be the Orth Delver's Guild from Made in Abyss. Orth is a city built on top of a giant, monster infested hole in the ground filled with magical relics called The Abyss. The Delvers Guild finances exploratory missions down into the Abyss to gather data and bring back relics, catalog everything they have found, and keeps some of the best relics for itself while acting as a brokerage to sell other relics abroad for a shitton of cash. Importantly, the delvers guild essentially IS the government of the city, everything about the city centers on the Abyss and what can be brought back up out of it. There is literally no other reason to ever go to Orth that isn't related to the Abyss. Those relics that the delver's guild keeps for themselves? It keeps those for *national defense*, making attacking the island to try and take control of access to the Abyss a very bad idea because you don't know all of the superweapons they have in their vaults that can do shit you can't imagine.

Other countries also send expeditions into the Abyss, through Orth. They pay Orth for the right to do so and the right to keep whatever they come back up with, but different teams of delvers will frequently fight each other in the Abyss for the relics that are being brought back. Its very Roadside Picnic in a hole. One prominent example of this in the story was a months long 4-way war in the Abyss for control of a giant bell that if you rang it stopped time.

So the tldr here is that in this specific, localized area where dungeon delving is important, the adventurer's guild *is* the government. There is no local lord, and the guild has the firepower to tell anyone who would contest their claim to fuck off. They finance themselves through the treasures brought back and by charging tolls on access to the dungeons. As a result, they will be very, very intolerant of anyone who tries to operate outside of the system.

>>98489810
You dumb ass you don't need the guild concept for that to work. Works just fine without some sort of guiding overbody contrivance. Works better even, its suppose to be an adventure not a job.

>>98490763
The second is Grand Companies of Eorzea from FF14. The basic concept here is that adventuring guilds exist at a tumultuous and specific historical context that is very vital in the short term but *cannot last* in the long term, the story just takes place during the brief window where they are viable.

In FF14, the continent of Eorzea is broken up into a bunch of city states that often fought each other in petty squabbles. None of them were big enough to maintain large standing armies, so instead they relied on small dedicated guard forces and then paying mercenaries whenever they wanted to have a war. The only exception to this was Ishgard, which *did* have a standing army but also was in a neverending war against dragons so they kind of needed one and also couldn't give a shit about what everyone else was doing as a result.

However, recently, a rising global superpower called the Garlean Empire made landfall on the eastern side of Eorzea and conquered the region that was there using their advanced technology, slowly spreading westward and threatening the cities there. The Grand Companies are the result of the Eorzean City states trying to boostrap a large scale military in a very short period of time, essentially just banding a bunch of different mercenary companies together under common banners and trying to organize them in a coherent command structure. However, not all of the mercenaries are down with this plan, a decent chunk of them don't want to be state soldiers and want to maintain their independence. Initial attempts to force the hands of these sellswords backfired horribly: making all mercenary work outside of the Grand Companies illegal to try and force people to join the grand companies just resulted in a lot of out of work and upset mercenaries turning to banditry.

>>98490822
This is where the adventurer's guild comes in. the adventurer's guild serves as a legal way for work to get done outside of the grand companies as a way to walk back the earlier ban, while at the same time serving as a way to handle work that used to get done by smaller mercenary groups that the Grand Companies cannot afford to deal with because their focus has to be on the war with the Garleans. Monster hunting, rescue mission, guarding caravans, etc. The cities will occasionally hire adventurers as well when the need is strong enough, but for the most part the adventurers are *supposed* to be filling in the cracks in the system left by the shifting landscape of the mercenary economy and the militarization efforts against the Garleans.

This makes sense in the immediate context, but also very clearly is temporary. There is no way that the adventurer's guild can survive as an institution once this period of chaos ends.

>>98489885
You're a fucking moron and that's not what he said at all. The world should be able to keep chugging without your protagonists. The fact that things happen without them doesn't mean they have no impact on the story, the story is whatever they're doing. I know you're a schizo sack of shit but you're genuinely calling the sun rising in the morning a form of railroading.

>>98491009
And you’re too busy putting the cart before the horse and wanting to prove your cleverness to understand why people even advocate fir a living world to begin with. A setting is essentially a playground for the game to take place in. But the existence of a world outside the scope of the game is a formality that only exists on paper. A living setting exists to provide tangible consequences to the actions of the players, not the other way around. If a king is overthrown by cultists in the kingdom of Whogivesafuck, which matters more? That it happened, or that it happened as a direct consequence of the players choosing not to travel to that kingdom after hearing word that evil rebellious cultists are located there and a reward is being issued for their capture. If a tree falls in a forest and the party isn’t around to hear it, it’s a poor GM that thinks they need to drag the party over to the fallen tree and tell them they should have cared about it.

>>98491070
you seem to misunderstand the point here. when the party is offered a quest, in your example prevent cultists from killing the king and the party decides not to engage with what is telegraphed as important quest, it's completely justified to let them feel the consequences of their (in)action. this doesn't necessarily translate to punishment but if the players get no pushback for ignoring the setting you WILL end up with murderhobos that demand increasingly unreasonable accomodations

>>98492392
Again, which matters more? That an event like the king of Whogivesafuck being overthrown by evil cultists happens because it serves the narrative? Or that said event happens as a direct consequence of the players choosing to ignore it?

>>98488957

>not liking Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser

I mean, technically a thieving guild, but Is such a thing even possible?

Anyway for what OP is probably asking for, I'd amusingly point out to Log Horizon. Almost too integrated.

>>98490784
>You dumb ass you don't need the guild concept for that to work.
but it makes it simple and easy

> its suppose to be an adventure not a job.
the job is the adventure
by making it into a job, you provide a simple and repeatable structure for the players to have an adventure every week
which was what it was made for, it gave every player the same basic understanding of where they stood in a typical campaign and thus needed no introductions when entering or leaving a game

>>98489063
>>98488994
Not a problem if various fraternal organizations are extremely common. You might be a member of the Fighter's Guild equivalent but also tithe to a church and help with an elder's sports league. All of these should generate adventure opportunities along w/ some responsibilities.

>>98493858
>if various fraternal organizations are extremely common
You mean like in medieval Europe, Japan, some parts of Arabia?
Guilds and cartels are fairly common historically; all this pushback at the idea of an 'adventurer's guild' is because it is seen as something related to anime alone.

>>98493932
The closest I’ve seen to an argument that wasn’t just “it’s taken from anime” is that most adventurer guilds seem to deal with everything, from setting up jobs to banking to weapons maintenance to training to housing to transportation to butchery to tanning to rendering and so on. Though I’ve seen some settings take the stance that adventure guilds act as basically middle men for the kind of day that work as adventurers but wouldn’t have the time or education to handle all the paperwork and after-job components.

>>98494005
>adventure guilds act as basically middle men
Mountaineerer's clubs work the same way. The club has deals with other businesses and outlets to source supplies, but they do not train you or produce mountains to climb.

>>98493101
>the job is the adventure
>by making it into a job, you provide a simple and repeatable structure for the players to have an adventure every week
There's a lot of competition but this is the worst post on the board today.

>>98494228
>There's a lot of competition but this is the worst post on the board today.
its the truth though
you can get any adventure you want, no matter how disparate it is from the previous one, and get instant justification for why the players are going to do this
because thats their job for the week

>>98493932
no the pushback comes from the trope having nothing to do with anything. guilds didn't operate like depicted in your anime and were very loosely if at all connected to other cities. that's literally never been the case before modernity so it inherently clashes with the medieval aesthetic. it's a logistical nightmare that implies vast power and influence in the organization running this network. if you don't lean on this, just don't bother with this lazy ass concept

>>98494269
a pushback that has almost nothing to do with why the guild was invented in the first place, which was to give the playerbase as a collective whole a loose shared identity that allows players to find games and publish stories on the magazines without needing an in depth knowledge of each others characters

>>98494269
So basically, it conflicts with your autistic sensibilities in a way you can’t even pretend to ignore.

>>98488902
Earthdawn Earthdawn Earthdawn

Tldr the world ended and people lived underground for 400 years so now you have to explore shit for the king or council of whatever underground city you were in when the cataclysm ended. The dungeons in most cases are other cities the monsters ate and live in.

>>98493932
Exactly.
>>98494005
In a guild-oriented setting, those other taks (tanning, armor) are contracts with other guilds.
>>98494269
Guilds should be powerful and have somewhat nebulous elements. It's great plot and adventure material, especially when guilds go up against each other, have internal revolts or decide to depose the local king.

>>98489063
Ragnarok Online's Kafra Agency. Sort of like if Charlie's Angels were maids and ruled the world economically. Why bother doing the boring day to day governance when you can just pay someone?