Is the concept of role play just disappearing? I’ve been playing daggerheart with a few friends after years of playing 2e. And much of the game is just imagination and fantasy, which is fine, but I’m being told its role play when it clearly isn’tFor example, in a short rest, the rules state you must describe how you do x thing to get the benefit. So the dm asks me>anon, what do you do in your short rest?>uhm idk? Does it matter what I say?>well.. yes because you can’t get your armour/hp back if you don’t say how you do itSo I just said>I use my armour repair kit to fix my armourAnd that was good enough apparentlyA little later on I’m reminded of the “team up” mechanic, which lets you do more damage with another party member or whatever. so I decided to try that. Again I was asked what happens in the situation to warrant this>I guess I call out to the party member and.. idk attack it’s legs? I don’t know some bullshit like thatAnd my friend beside me says>it is a role playing game, anon.. you are allowed to role playAnd my position is that actually, none of those moments were or are role playing. It’s just imagination. Which isn’t inherently wrong. But it doesn’t matter what I say so long as I say something. The dm could easily ask me when I cast a fireball>ok, but how does it come out?It’s the same thing. Saying “it comes out of my mouth/ass/hands/eyes has nothing to do with role playing my character.Why are these things being confused? Are people stupid? Is this happening in other game systems?
People have been stupid but I think there is some conditioning to be like this thanks to internet. People want to read less and that eventually means to acting less to make things move along faster so less detailing is seen as pointless filler so incentives to be detailed are lessened and that translates to less exercise in imagination muscles if those exist at all.In my case it was fear of being cringe in a way that harmed myself and would bite me later after post teenage maturity so I kept things simple and I think my imagination also stagnated due to work too.
>>98495683BAN THE FROG
>>98495683Frogspamming faggot.
>>98495714>>98495719What, I can’t post a frog on this board? I’ve created a thread for genuine discussion. You would know that if you read my post
>>98495683Given that the premise of the thread is that people don't agree on the definition of "role play", you need to specify what you mean by the term before anyone can tell you anything useful. Frogposting retard.
>>98495683Roleplaying is deciding the character and behavior of someone who isn't yourself. You don't need to go into specifics, especially if those specifics do nothing but delay the game.
>>98495683Why the fuck can't you imagine the game, anon? Why don't you even want to? Are you retarded?Maybe there's some definitional confusion, and your fellow players mean "immersion" or "not being fucking boring" or something. It scarcely matters. What you've shown your whole ass about is that you can't engage the people around the table and your stupid fucking ass is cheapening the experience.I know games aren't supposed to be stories, but you could definitely stand to learn some storytelling.
What does the reddit frog have to do with it?
>>98495736They're signaling how virtuous they are by rejecting the frog, just like the low effirt bot posters they imply the frog posters to be. This whole place is full of manufactured controversy now. The social engineers won.
>>98495683>brainlet thinks everyone is as retarded as he is>brianlet pretends to understand RPGs while demonstrating he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about
>>98495683Let me guess, you’re also the type to say a Nat 20 on a bluff check means he shouldn’t need indicate what he said to bluff the other party, huh?
Didn’t realise this topic would anger so many retards. From the responses I fear I was correct in that a lot of people cannot seperate role playing from imagination or “immersion”.>>98495769Role playing is deciding the actions, behaviour, mentality, personality, of a given character. If those are not in question then you are not role playing, you’re just describing an event. which is my argument about repairing armour/the team up attack which I describe in the OP.
>>98496266Or maybe you’re a stuck up frog poster.
>>98495683>DaggerShartWhat drives a man to look at D&D 5e and decide that they want to play something even MORE retarded and gay somehow.
>>98496266>Role playing is deciding the actions, behaviour, mentality, personality, of a given characterYou're missing a conjunction. Regardless, "What does he do during the short rest?" is certainly deciding his actions and behaviour, suggests his mentality, and at least informs his personality. So why don't you think that fits your definition?
Oh my fucking sweet baby Jesus this thread is the classic example why /tg/ is shit.Granted the OP is awful at explaining but you twats are so stupid.>>98496323Because describing how you're killing someone, how you rest, how you fucking use an help action isn't fucking roleplaying, it's making up shit, it's you just adding flair to a mechanical action.You can say "I use the help action to give advantage to Twidlefuck on his next attack" or "I wave my limp dick in front of the enemy in an hypnotizing manner, using it as part of my help action to allow Twidlefuck to get advantage on his next attack, the enemy too stunned to react in time" and it's not roleplaying you're just making up shit and adding flair.Roleplaying is deciding how you spend your gold, which factions to help, deciding if you even want to help Twidlefuck in combat or if you'd rather stand back, either because you trust Twidlefuck to come on top or because you secretly want Twidlefuck to die.That's like saying that someone gives you a quest and>Yes>Yes Sarcastically>Yes In A Rude Way>Tell me MoreAre valid "roleplaying" options.They fucking aren't.Describing how you rest isn't roleplaying.Deciding wherever to rest or not when there's a time limit is.
>>98496364>Role playing is deciding the actions, behaviour, mentality, personality, of a given character> describing how you're killing someone, how you rest, how you fucking use an help action isn't fucking roleplaying, it's making up shit, it's you just adding flair to a mechanical action.You and OP are really failing to make it clear the difference. Even then, you’ve only made it clear you just hate when people add or ask for details yiu consider superfluous to the state of the game, not what makes a tomato not a fruit.
>>98496381>You and OP are really failing to make it clear the difference. NTA but the difference is really very clear. Role playing, at least as far as role-playing games go, is making decisions that matter in context of the game. These decisions can be expressed simply, pragmatically, laconically or theatrically. It doesn't matter. What matters is the decision it self. The fluff, the flowery or (over) detailed descriptions are nice, they help with immersion which is a big part of the fun of the game, but they are not themselves role playing.
>>98496381The difference is that one is a game mechanic + flair/fantasy/bullshit.The other is a decision that creates a reaction or change you could not have foreseen.I know that no matter what I say, how I describe the action of fixing my armour, my armour will be repaired after the short rest. If I decide not to help a teammate because my character is selfish, I don’t know what the outcome will be. I’ll let you attempt to work out the difference.
>>98496364>roleplaying is deciding actions>NO NOT THOSE ACTIONSI wonder why no one understands you.
>>98496419>decisions that matter in context of the gameThat's progress at least. And how do you determine which decisions matter?
>>98496430Nigger how are you so dense?DESCRIBING actions is not DECIDING actions.If we all take a rest there is no scenario in which I am not taking a rest.There's a difference between the DM asking for confirmation>are you taking a rest now?and asking for fucking flair>you're taking a rest, describe how clean your teethThe first one is you DECIDING the action.The second one is you DESCRIBING an already decided on action.
>>98496421> I know that no matter what I say, how I describe the action of fixing my armour, my armour will be repaired after the short rest. If I decide not to help a teammate because my character is selfish, I don’t know what the outcome will be. I’ll let you attempt to work out the difference.So if you say that you fix your armor by slapping it with your dick, it should work then, yes?
>>98495683>Is the concept of role play just disappearing?Its changed a lot over the decades, did you just get out of a time machine? >2e Oh shit maybe you did. Most roleplay requires imagination, not all imagination is roleplay. Yes. You'll need to provide an example of what you think role play is at this point, not enough to otherwise comment on other than you are operating with different enough use than your fellows. Which is weird if they're your friends you've been playing with for a while as described. You have misidentified if it mattered or not what you said when asked though. In the group social game, shared descriptions or someone else making a good go of it tends to encourage more of the same. It also provides contextual description because the game is in most cases a mixture of the written rules and how the DM and players mix those to create a gameworld.
>>98496468Again, you’re only saying you hate details you consider superfluous, not what makes certain things inherently “not a decision that matters”.
>>98496468NTAOn account of the character being roleplayed entirely existing as a shared description and imagination exercise, its necessarily both. The descriptions are mixed descriptions of assessment, decisions and outcomes. There's a difference in location of the descriptive voice >I Chard Thundarkok hew into the titbeast and slay it and >Chard attacks with a flurry of overhand slashes to the titbeast blend together in most gameplay. Its unlikely you're separating them as much as you imagine unless you have a fairly rare form of autism where you can only imagine things in first person.
>>98496474That’s what the game is saying, yes. The rules are “describe how you fix it”. So if one player fixes his armour by panel beating it back into shape, and another player slaps his dick on the armour to “fix” it, why is one more valid than the other? The outcome is already decided that the armour will be fixed, you’re just saying how it will be. And none of it is role playing. It’s just description of a predetermined event.
>>98496468The prompt given was>what do you do in your short rest?That's asking for actions, not description. "What actions do you take during the rest?"
>>98496547>The outcome is already decided that the armour will be fixed,False. The outcome is dependent on the mixture of the skill use and the description. You're playing mother may I with dice for fun. Don't like it try a board game.
>>98496547>That’s what the game is saying, yesI have not read this particular game, but I don't believe you. Most games would follow that backwards: "fix the armour" is a goal, not an action, and "panel beat it back into shape" should achieve it while "slap it with my dick" should not.
>>98496547Anon, would you legitimately look a GM in the eyes and say “I take my scaling out and slap it across my breastplate like a ten dollar whore”? Cause that’s some weird ass roleplaying
>>98496572The game system is so vague and empty that there is no skill required. The rules state: during a short rest you can do x, y, or z. Describe how you perform those actions. That’s it.
>>98496554Does it matter what actions you take during rest?Does it matter if you swing your longsword or you trust it?Does it matter if clean yourself with or without soap?If yes, that's roleplaying.If not, that's making shit up.>>98496534>>I Chard Thundarkok hew into the titbeast and slay it>and>>Chard attacks with a flurry of overhand slashes to the titbeastThe action of you attacking is roleplaying.How you attack if it doesn't matter is extra fluff.They are not the same thing.I don't know why that annoys OP to be honest but it true that nowadays most people mistake "roleplaying" for "I add a novel worth of useless fluff to a single action".>>98496500The details are superfluous if the fucking actions are already pre-determined.If I use my attack action to strike you with my longsword and I hit, I can describe how I toss the sword in the air, it hits you in the shoulder and I draw it once more from it.Or I can just say "I attack with my sword".It's the same action.The action is pre-determined.
>>98496574I don’t even blame you for being skeptical
>>98496599>If yes, that's roleplaying.>If not, that's making shit up.Yes then. Glad that's settled.
>>98496599>The action is pre-determined.I think this is where your argument falls apart, Mr Dicksmith. Cause that’s not always the case. Rolling a 20 on a bluff check doesn’t mean the prison guard will automatically believe you if you tell him he’s a fucking ostrich and ostriches don’t work as prison guards.
>>98496616>Describe howThat's what I told you, but described backwards. You can achieve one or two of those four things by describing actions that would achieve them.
>>98496651Yes I understand perfectly. I would “hastily patch myself up” by having my character slap his dick all over his wounds. Then I roll x dice to gain y hit points. It doesn’t matter what I describe because it results in my character being healed anyway
>>98496676No, slapping your dick on a cut is not an action that would heal the cut. Keep working on that medical degree.
>>98496676>It doesn’t matter what I describeSo it’s your position that whatever you imagine is tantamount to roleplaying since your actions don’t matter, just the effects. Got it.
>>98496588>The game system is so vague and empty that there is no skill required. The skill is a social one. You're probably fucked mate.
>>98496623Yes he should if the DM asked you to roll.If the DM asks you first to make up a lie, then you make up the lie and the DM adjudicates how good the lie is, if you get bonuses, advantages, penalties, disadvantages, if it auto fails or auto succeeds.If you ask if you can convince the guard to turn around, the DM asks for a bluff check, you get nat 20 and you convince tell them they're an ostrich and ostriches don’t work as prison guards that's irrelevant, because the action has been taken and adjudicated by the DM, unless the DM is the type of retard that makes up DCs AFTER the player rolled for the action.Obviously these are absurd scenarios but the spirit is the same: the action has been taken, either ask me ahead of time how I rest, how I heal my wounds, how I do X and Y and then you give me a quantifiable bonus or check or what have you or it doesn't matter how I do it, because you're just asking for a pointless justification.And you know what?I'll give you a concrete example, with the fucking 5e Dragon Heist module, which is one gigantic bullshit railroad where all your decisions do not fucking matter, where the DM is forced to ask the players "how do you do this" when they know full well nothing matters.Where we had to free a retard faggot from prison to retrieve a gay ass stone and then drows come and STEAL the stone and then the module, no matter what, decides "the drows will manage to escape with it".That's not fucking roleplaying.
>>98496685Why does it matter if it’s realistic? The DM could reason that too and say no you can’t heal yourself with your penis, so I just say that I use a box of plasters. There is no need to explain how I got them, or from where, only that the reason is logical to some degree. Or the DM could still say no, because no plaster could fix those wounds. At which point I have to wonder why I’m even given agency to describe what I do in the first place if my description isn’t valid when I give it
>>98496718Anon, you have a particularly absurd impression of roleplaying games, either from sticking solely to the wording of the rules without actually properly experiencing them in actual play, being a frog posting troll, or from being the dumbest motherfucker alive. Cause any GM worth their salt would hear you claiming that a Nat 20 enables you to claim that a human guard now believes they’re an ostrich and ask what planet you come from where that has ever fucking happened. Before telling you it didn’t work.
>>98496696No, im saying the description ISNT role playing. And the rules only ask for a description which then results in the outcome.
>>98496730>Why does it matter if it’s realistic?Because that's the fucking game you retard.>why I’m even given agency to describe what I do in the first place if my description isn’t valid when I give itSo your position is that you should be able to achieve anything regardless of the plausibility? "I defeat the dragon." "I become rich." "I ascend to godhood."
>>98496599>How you attack if it doesn't matter is extra fluff.>They are not the same thing.They're overlapped a lot more than you are willing or perhaps able to see. Its okay. You'll hopefully filter yourself into a likeminded group or learn how to operate with porous categories. >>98496616>playing daggerhaert of all things like a boardgame Well that's novel. A really bad idea, but its unexpected.
>>98496746Then you’re either playing a badly made game or you’re a massive idiot. Possibly both,
>>98496745>Obviously these are absurd scenarios but the spirit is the same>ANON THAT'S SO ABSURD NOBODY WOULD ACCEPT THATYou're a real stupid faggot.
>>98496747>describe how you patch yourself up>describe how you become rich>describe how you defeat the dragon>describe how you ascend to godhood
>>98496795You’re the guy claiming that slapping your meat across your armor to fix it is “real roleplaying” compared to the plebs who want to say they strike at a dude’s legs with their sword for fun. You might want to look in a mirror sometime, chief.
>>98496799Are you claiming these are all valid so long as an action is described, no matter whether it relates to the goal or not?
>>98496805No I'm not and you can't read, sorry Anon.
>>98496808I play 2e primarily. If I say to the DM>I heal myself by slapping my wounds with my dickHe will say no you don’t. Because there are rules for healing. I would need to be healed by a priest, drink a potion, rest for x amount of weeks, etcIn daggerheart, in this specific scenario, as depicted in >>98496616, it simply says “describe how you patch yourself up”. These are the rules for resting. If you take a short rest, you describe how you do x and you get y.I know the example I gave is utterly absurd but the rules themselves offer absurdity.
>>98496879The rules assume you aren't a drooling retard. An error certainly, but not the one you claim.
>>98496827No argument, I see.
>>98496879You’re the one inviting absurdity by arguing that slapping your dick across your wounds to heal them is a valid form of healing despite not believing so and retreating behind the rules as a cover for you being a midwit. Especially since you agreed to play with that ruleset to begin with.
>>98496886No they don’t. You, as the dm in this scenario, would correctly assume that my solution would not realistically work, and therefore deny me healing. The rules as stated assume absolutely nothing, and are therefore more absurd and retarded than any example I give. Because the rules as written means any description is fit for the result.
>>98496914>The rules as stated assume absolutely nothing,You don't even know what an assumption is. You are wrong about literally everything. Just fuck off.
>>98496914You do realize that you are now arguing against your own stated position in the OP by saying that being able to imagine whatever absurd scenario you can as long as it follows the rules is roleplaying, right?
>frog posting faggot is revealed to be a trolling giga nigger cunt again.Why does anyone every try to take these threads seriously? Just ignore these absolute nigger faggots and let their cancerous threads wither and die.
>>98496879>In daggerheart, in this specific scenario, as depicted in >>98496616, it simply says “describe how you patch yourself up”. These are the rules for resting. If you take a short rest, you describe how you do x and you get y.I really hope I don't go read daggerheart just for this but it seems like you're making a leap from >describe to >get that good god I hope, has a section in the DM side where it talks about descriptive qualities or some halfassed rule zero equivalent. Even narrative control games have sections on fitting the tone with your descriptions.
>>98495683Not sure why everyone is so angry at you, anon. But you are in the wrong here. Roleplaying is a subset of imagination, the two are not in conflict in any way and doing one does not exclude doing the other. When you roleplay, you are expressing how a different person than you is or would do things. A fighter with a greatsword and a rogue with two daggers might both have the ability to (JUST as an example) trip an opponent, but they would go about doing so in very different ways. Expressing how they go about doing so increases immersion and is a way to express the type of character you are playing - which means it *IS* roleplaying. The end result of an action is important, but the way the character reaches that end result is also important. Hence why they keep asking you to explain how. Hope that helps.
>>98495683To cut a long diatribe very short, a lot of the art of running and playing tabletop rpg's was "streamlined" away over successive years, and it accelerated in the era of videogames.Shit, we've pretty much been playing wrong for at least twenty years.Nobody I met in my initial years even had an inkling about "living" campaign worlds like OG Greyhawk, or about dungeon time, or what a Caller is, or that the players used to draw their OWN maps.
>>98498691I got a bit caught up in all the rules lawyering there for a bit, but I think you’re mostly right. We have new players come to our 2e table quite a lot saying “roll perception” without stating what they’re perceiving, as if it’s some catch all term to reveal general information about a place/person.We had a player say this and he wanted to know if someone was lying, and the dm was like>how are going to know if he’s lying? You just met him?>player: because of micro facial movements and stuff.. right?>do you have a lie detector skill? No? Then you can’t detect “micro facial movements”The map making is pretty interesting too, because our table does this. If you want to remember the map from last session, someone’s gotta be drawing it. Similarly, you can’t swim/read/write/ride unless you have the skill. In a lot of modern RPGs it’s just implied that everyone can do everything that’s required so long as some sort of dice is rolled against some sort of statAnd I think this is where role playing has become condensed into this weird “descriptor” based system, where describing how your character does something is justification for why it occurs, instead of it being simply “I have a mechanical skill to do this”.
>>98498786That sounds more like a system problem than a roleplaying problem, frankly. More modern ttrpg games do treat “Perception” as a catch-all term for inspecting the environment, and systems that new closet to storytelling like pbta outright suggest just letting the player character do something mundane or unimportant “unless you decide they need to roll for it” to emphasize that there should be a legitimate risk of failure and-or to keep them from attempting rolls or actions that wouldn’t succeed in the first place.
>>98498691So as someone who came into the hobby via 5e (AHHHHHHH) and quickly found the OSR but I've never gotten a grasp on what are the expectations for RP in that setting. Context lost I suppose. Can someone illucidate me? I've seen Shonner (rip) "Roleplay the Hard Way" but there's no way my players can do that, too retarded.
>>98496616This sounds fun to me. I try to add stuff like this into my dnd and osr games. Some groups like it, some don’t. I like being descriptive but some people autistically focus solely on mechanics and the plain text of the players handbook. Clearly OP is playing with a table that’s not his speed, find another group. Or try getting into it a bit, I don’t know.>>98496746The game was probably written under the assumption that you wouldn’t be an unfun buzzkill that tries to undermine it out of spite. It sounds like it works just fine for your group.
>>98498691>>Shit, we've pretty much been playing wrong for at least twenty years.Longer than that, it started with 3e which took way too many notes from action RPGs with skill trees and excessive amounts of magical loot, but without being able to handle the enemy counts of games like Diablo. Savage Worlds, 4e, and 13th Age all figured out their own solutions though.
