>>98501781
Busty girl with brown skin?
You can just count me in.

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>>98501781
>What part of Creation do you find yourself thinking about the least?
Blessed Isle or the north.

>>98501781
>What part of Creation do you find yourself thinking about the least?
North, though I do occasionally find myself thinking about Whitewall or the Haslanti. If we're counting intercardinal directions as their own parts of Creation, then it'd be Northwest.

>>98501781
>What part of Creation do you find yourself thinking about the least?
The (Far) East if we're talking setting book-size parts. An-Teng or Gem probably if regional..

>>98501781
Far East and the Blessed Isle, then probably West. I don't think any RPG in existence does sailing well.

>>98502084
Well, in theory, to do it well you only need 2 things; rules for "what happens when a character falls underwater" and ship's "mobility and resistance"

>>98502084
>>98502229
Some anon in a past thread posted advice for how to handle naval battles as well as other quick fixes for the more bothersome parts of the system but I can't find the relevant posts.

>>98501781
Holy boobers.

>>98501781
>chocolate
>busty
>moonsilver tattoos
I don't know what she's gonna ask me to do but I'm in.

>>98501781
that lunar lady: DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMNNNN!

i almost never think of the west and the blessed isle. the west as too much of its own thing (underwater and boat stuff that is just not a thing in the other places) and the blessed isle is DB central so too dangerous to be here so not worth thinking about it.

>>98502443
My previous advice for naval battles has always been to just handle it as terrain. Boat moving is terrain moving, boats smashing into each other is the same as when buildings fall into each other, boats moving in different vectors is the same as when carts move in different direction in a marketplace. Long ranged attacks deal damage to boats in the same way long ranged attacks deal damage to buildings - rarely significant, it's more a feats of strength type dealio. If you want to actually deal damage to boats yourself then use feats of strength to smash it with your own hands, or to hurl things at the other boat, which is also what artillery does.

I like the idea of gambits as a catch-all do whatever mechanic for combat, but they feel too nebulous I guess

>>98503853
3e gambits are just too bad to be worth using too.
Essence gambits are great though. Precise in what they do, good delivery method, useful in combat, not winning anything on their own.

>>98503887
Maybe I'll take a look at them

>>98501781
least huh? the east if i'm honest. so much can be done with an endless ocean of trees but so little sticks out you stop paying attention to it

>>98503990
For me I think it's that nothing in the East engages with anything outside the East. Not everywhere needs to be the South where basically every location tries to stretch out to touch on everything almost as much as the Blessed Isle does, but like at least in the West and North and Scavenger Lands people engage with each other and there are a few ties outside the Direction.

>>98501781
the west, despite volcanic islands being ideal settings, ships just don't come to my mind.

>>98503853
>>98503887
Forgive me if I'm reading the rules wrong, but aren't gambits completely useless because you have to expend your Initiative as if you were making a Decisive attack, which is a waste because you could just make a Decisive attack and end the fight then and there?

>>98504285
Yes. In 3e, this is why they're too bad to be worth using. People have no equivalent to Soak for decisive damage, and optimally all of your initiative is going directly into their health track. Gambits also don't do much unless they're very specifically grapple gambits, which add a bunch of bonus damage for free (action-economy wise) and aren't very fair.

In Essence people have a lot of health and damage reduction, and a low cap on Power/Initiative and in general the maximum damage you can do just isn't that big. So, getting some non-damage advantages from gambits is often worth it against big opponents. Stuff like lowering people's damage reduction or defense ratings for a few rounds.

>>98504307
OK, thanks, I thought I was going cuckoo. How do we fix gambits for 3e then?

>>98504285
basically
for instance, they should have had Smashing attacks be a Gambit instead of just being something that costs Initiative, because getting put Prone is a serious disadvantage that they had to work into Charm sets later to help against
>>98504325
Make them all work like Smash attacks where you just pay initiative to attempt them, but also jack up the costs so that a player can't spam them

>>98504325
Attach them to the more accurate withering attacks that build initiative - reducing the initiative gained - rather than to decisive attacks that do nothing but make the gambit work.

>>98504494
I like that idea too

i come from seat's discord

here's an exalted 1e chummer i made

https://github.com/x6568tank/exalted-1e-charsheet-generator

>>98504664
You're awesome.

>>98504664
should have waited another year
oh well kino's kino

I'm not even sure if gambits are something a combat focused build would want to be using. They seem more like things for people to do when they know they're not doing a lot of damage themselves.

>>98504893
If your character is equally matched and not picky or honorable about how they win, using gambits to use dirty tricks could be fun
Spitting in the opponents eyes
Feigning surrender to get their opponent to drop their guard

>>98504893
the only thing combat focus builds should be doing in 3e is fishing for an ambush alpha strike and then leaving to do it again at some indeterminate time later

>>98505680
I hate this meme so much. Just don't play with some shitty errata and/or play a social only build. At this point I'm just going to ask if people even want the ambush meta and if they think it's good for the game as opposed to asking them how people played the game.

Really the jokes on all other builds besides crafters as we laugh and build entire castles in moments flat.

>>98505727
without the errata you just remove the ambush part

>>98505758
i don't know what that means.

>>98505680
It's better for everyone involved in almost all levels if they don't do that.

>>98505727
The ambush meta is something I really haven't seen in actual games nearly as one might expect based on the discussion here. Most people don't really want to play a character who strikes one and then runs away from combat.

>>98505843
You still do a shitty alpha strike and nova out all your motes at once to obliterate the target ASAP, you just do it without an ambush. Withering attacks are for suckers, optimal play is to max Join Battle and hit someone for way-more-than-lethal damage round one.

>>98506039
ambushes are also still good in this case

it's really hard to deal with them even with full access to charms

>>98506039
That's a good strategy if you consider averages but risky if you actually roll the dice. Like, sure, alpha strikes can work, and you have to go for a Decisive at some point anyways, but failing to kill the enemy and getting crashed at base Initiative is also a possibility, especially if you're fighting peer-level opponents.

>>98506114
No, in practice alpha strikes always win.

>>98506118
In practice you sometimes roll poorly. If you fight enemies you are guaranteed to defeat even with poor rolls, your ST is going easy on you and you'd win even if you went with a less optimal build and tactic.

>>98506114
The chance of whiffing and resetting to base initiative is exactly the same as it will ever be, because your accuracy does not improve over time. The chance of enemies interacting with you in ways that reduce your damage output dramatically rises as you give them chances to act. You aren't meaningfully improving your damage output over time when you already have lethal damage. At best, you're doing more with less motes over time, but you're spending initiative, losing the initiative, accepting attacks which you need to spend motes to defend, and failing at action economy.

What's the advantage to playing it slow when winning immediately is an option, really? You get more funny coins and tokens and narrative resources but most of them disappear at the end of the fight and the rest you're probably saving on with shorter fights.

>>98506171
>In practice you sometimes roll poorly.
Yeah but that'll kill you whether you nova or not. The chance of fuckups doesn't meaningfully increase whether you attack round one or round three, the attack is still going to be rolling roughly the same number of dice.

I think Exalted needs more cheesecake in its official art
Both tasteful and tacky

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>>98506636
They are incapable of doing so, both for cultural and capacity reasons.

>>98507059
now i know pointing out typos is bad but
come on man exalted isn't itself without an x

anyway red

>>98507094
Lunars lost their rights to be called exalted a while ago

>>98500676
>It's when your character has been sitting there hitting the books for hours until he has a sudden realization and goes "Eureka!", adjusts his glasses confidently and explains a grand insight he just had to his circle. Just one example.

That's kind of underwelming tho.
Apart from the chicken/egg issue of describing the outcome of an action whose outcome is to be determined by the roll of which I'm using the description to stunt (if I fail I EUREKA'd wrong, I guess?), isn't that just contextualizing the action?

If that's what equates to STUNT 1, that's both uplifting - because that baseline of narration is the natural default in my group - and depressing - to think that it is something considered "going above and beyond" enough to warrant a bonus.

So I guess

>"ST, I roll Lore, what do I know?" - Straight roll
> "I gather together the circle, drop a heavy stack of scrolls and books in front of them, sigh heavily, adjust my glasses, and then go: so, this is how it is (ST, tell me how it is plz)" - Stunt 1

But then I still struggle to think of a WOAH moment of not-dynamic actions that could warrant higher stunt dice

>>98507199
Watch a lot of House M.D.

>>98507304
> the patient who's in constant drug resistant pain.
> the eureka moments is when a maintenance man scratches his balls and and house comes to the conclusion that it started when the patient was hit in the balls.
you'd have to have a storyteller and player that work well together and can improv well to come up with anything close to that.

>>98507157
Expain, yourself, wilo

What do you mean by this?

In exalted 3e is it generally better to save up for a single decisive strike that ends the battle. Or do mutiple ones to chip away the foes health.

In exalted 2.5e how scary are the mass combat rules. Like is dragonblooded with a hundred angry farmers following him, more dangerous than ten farmers without mass combat rules.>>98507199
I feel like lore can be done with lovely nerding out.

I am not sure if it be made harder for 3e. But exalted 2e paranoia combat was based around the idea that a two dice stunt is easy to do.

>>98506171
Anon, you I'd by lying if I said I was some math expert but I can break down a few game design things. Someone else can do it better but basically this is it.

>ambush attacks can only be defended by ambush defenders.
>A tough god is now as weak as the weakest god.
>NPC's aren't designed with this system in mind, so they either need a built in one-shot counter, a built in ambush canceller, or some such thing. All of them now need to be designed this way. That's a lot of words to waste for an errata.
>All defense charms now are worthless, as all decisive attacks are now ambushes.
>Unless it's worded to block ambushes as well, like certain dodge charms.
>Congrats, you now reduced the usable amount of tank charms by more then half.
>3e combat is already pretty lethal without errata, ambush meta just breaks it like 2e.
>In fact, what does it sound like when you have attacks that can one-shot anything and need a single charm type to defend against? Oh god it's the 2e perfect meta all over again.
>These issues don't exist if you just ignore some shitty errata.
>If people start using ambush attacks willy-nilly your players will die. Two or three and players just don't have the resources to deal with it.

You notice how even NPC's now have a "If I die I come back to full health?" It's because ambush meta. Which isn't exactly a thing because who the fuck plays the game with those shitty house rules. Whomever does should for sure kill themselves. If we want to get into the math of things someone else is going to have to but it's been explained to me before and it's absolutely fucked. Ambush attacks aren't like, sneak attacks. You can be fight in someone's face and blast them and it's an ambush, because charms.

I honestly haven't seen a game line flat out kill itself due to an incompetent dev in a real long time. It's impressive honestly.

>>98507612
Depends on the ruleset being used. If you use errata then no, you just want to ambush attack as often as possible. Resources to burn, limited defenses against it, don't need to sneak to do it. I'd just leave whatever game you're in if they use it, shits unplayable.

If it's a normal game then it depends. Doing a bit of damage early on can be a huge help. I'd say just hit the guy and get him wasting charm activations.

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Would you be an extra in the world of Creation?

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>>98507199
>>98507370
>>98507612

Lore or Investigation 3-dice Stunt is literally Pepe Silvia

>>98507660
I am so extra that if I was in creation I could be the Scarlet Empress.

>>98507659
>If you use errata then no, you just want to ambush attack as often as possible. Resources to burn, limited defenses against it, don't need to sneak to do
Now I understand why one of the few Heart-Eater's charm published was one that turned their attacks into an ambush.
They are truly too powerful to exist

>>98507710
I'd say to just ignore the shitty homebrew but the game devs are forced into a position where they're building the game around both game designs. It's not really great and I can't imagine how many words they wasted. They're not bad when you're not limited to the charms you can take to defend against it. There just aren't enough "anti-ambush" charms and the system doesn't work out well to take those and other charms as well.

It's strong (really strong) when you just use it normal and let people defend with reflexive stuff. There are charms that let you make multiple in a single turn and again, ambush attacks aren't sneak attacks. They can be a laser beam to the face or two giant swords.

Imagine being a game designer, working so hard on toughguy arch type charms, only to find out that 3/4 of your work is wasted because it doesn't work against the most dangerous type of attacks. It's honestly hilarious.

>>98507644
>I honestly haven't seen a game line flat out kill itself due to an incompetent dev in a real long time. It's impressive honestly.
Gamelines do that pretty frequently, and also Exalted keeps getting new books which people keep buying and, yes, playing. Also ambush meta is pretty different from 2E's problems, as stealth being too powerful is not as general a problem as combat just being too lethal at the baseline. Also consider enemies - or PCs - who just have good Perception+Awareness and Join Battle enchancers. Ambushes are powerful, sure, Vance's ruling on them is dumb, sure, but things getting too deadly when someone's completely unaware that he's in battle or otherwise threatened, and then if the ambusher first succeeds in Stealth and then wins Join Battle, is a whole lot more situational than everyone with a grand goremaul or just a plain old maul being immediate death.

>You can be fight in someone's face and blast them and it's an ambush, because charms.
You can't, though. Ambushes attacks can only be performed against a completely unaware target. I think the only Charm Solars have for changing that is Mind Shroud Meditation, which, fair enough, is a Charm that shouldn't exist, but you still do actually need to successfully enter Stealth before you can use that Charm. Again, Stealth is too powerful, no doubt about that, but that's quite far from 2E's paranoia combat.

>>98507757
It's been awhile and I should probably check before posting but I'm bold. Few things.
>completely unaware target
If a charm says it can make an ambush attack you don't need the setup. You just make an ambush attack.
> Mind Shroud Meditation
I am fairly confident that's not true. Other charms let you just make ambush attacks as a solar.
> 2E's paranoia combat.
My point was more the whole "One attack kills, no matter what. Spend motes to perfectly defend it or die." If anything it's worse then 2e's because you can only perfect a limited amount of times, afaik at least.

Now to double check everything I just said.

>>98507644
>I honestly haven't seen a game line flat out kill itself due to an incompetent dev in a real long time. It's impressive honestly.
Not really, early ai adopters killed the goodwill from their fambases, and I know tales of gachas killing themselves out of poorly thought out moves.

Ngl reading this thread does nothing but confirm my biased opinion that 3rd isn't worth reading and to stick to 2nd.

>>98507802
Fair point.

It's even worse because this game is big on homebrew. If the ambush meta was something carefully balanced around how many anti-ambush charms there are then sure. It's not. You can make an anti-ambush charm if you want to. It's so weird.

>>98507779
>If a charm says it can make an ambush attack you don't need the setup. You just make an ambush attack.
>> Mind Shroud Meditation
>I am fairly confident that's not true. Other charms let you just make ambush attacks as a solar.
What Charms do you have in mind? Don't just go "trust me bro", because I don't. Mind Shroud Meditation is, at the very least, the only Stealth Charm in the core that mentions ambushes, and it can only be used when you're concealed in combat.

>My point was more the whole "One attack kills, no matter what. Spend motes to perfectly defend it or die."
I'll repeat that I'm not arguing that Stealth isn't too powerful, but there are already two layers of defense against ambushes in Perception and Join Battle. Like, sure, at the very least Charms like Heavenly Guardian Defense that explicitly say that they defend against unexpected attacks should work against all unexpected attacs - which they by RAW of course do, as there's no actual published errata - but the ambusher does need to succeed in multiple contested rolls to pull an ambush off.

>>98507811
The only reason you think that is because the devs are done fucking with your game. Someone will be in charge of the thing you love and they'll fuck it up too. Just wait.

If the math wasn't so absolutely fucked I don't think I'd care but it's like, really fucked. Although I don't even know if 3e math people exist anymore. More and more games are using the errata so I honestly don't know.

>>98507811
That's understandable, but it's also giving the opinions of this specific subset of Exalted fandom way too much weight.

>>98507813
Charms cost exp; it is a return of the card game paranoia meta of 2e.

>Oh, no "blade of the battle maiden" and "STM" were published, now I have to put those cards/Charms in my deck out of fear.

>>98507827
? You say whatever I want you to say. For the charms, take a look at the solar book. It'll say it lets you make an ambush attack. Crimson Razor Wind, ctrl+f "ambush".

To be perfectly clear - without errata I think ambushes are strong but not broken. It's the whole "Can't use reflexive charms to defend unless they say they're for ambushes" that is retarded. For many, many reasons that aren't even all balance related. But mostly for balance. I'm telling you, games that use this errata have to be stupid careful with ambushes for no reason.

They were already strong lmao.

>>98507833
"You can only defend against this with a limited set of charms" is literally 2e's perfect paradigm. It's why I think Vance was one of the big pushers for it. Toss in a little "defending means no effect" and it's just a dead ringer.

Why.

>>98507828
Don't worry anon, I like 40k. The community AND the devs are actively gangbanging the fun out of it.

>>98507876
ahahaha the warhammer company got that warhammer show to be canceled and it move onto World of Darkness all those years gone for nothing and no more new fans ahahaha it's so funny.
;___;

>>98507849
>? You say whatever I want you to say.
What the fuck are you rambling about, anon?

>'ll say it lets you make an ambush attack. Crimson Razor Wind, ctrl+f "ambush".
That can only be used following a succesful Observer-Deceiving Attack, which the enemy does get to contest, and not an insurmountably high difficulty.

>>98507890
It's an ambush attack anon, don't change the topic. There are others, I found one that you missed. You missed others. Find them, talk about them. Tell me why it's balanced.

If you think ambush is good for the game, explain why. Because I think it's fine if you ignore the errata that came after. It's not very complex.

>>98507912
Ctrl-f "ambush" only finds Crimson Razor Wind fro Solar Thrown and Open Palm Caress from Black Claw Style. I would not say that's exactly meta-defining unless other splats get a lot more.

>>98507912
>It's an ambush attack anon, don't change the topic.
A conditional ambush attack, not terribly difficult to defend against, not a Charm that just makes an attack Ambush and that's that. Did you already forget that your claim was
>>98507779
>If a charm says it can make an ambush attack you don't need the setup. You just make an ambush attack.
?

>You missed others. Find them, talk about them.
If you have specific Charms in mind, just say so, don't try to make others do your leg work for you.

>If you think ambush is good for the game, explain why. Because I think it's fine if you ignore the errata that came after. It's not very complex.
Do you have problems with reading comprehension? I've said multiple times that Stealth is too powerful, but that you exaggerate the scale of the problem.

I feel awkward about how I always thought the Scarlet Empress was fire aspect because red is the color of fire, but realized that a large number of people apparently think she's earth aspect.

>>98507926
It's funny, I remember there being two more ways to get ambushes off easy but I suppose I'm wrong about that. Funny but doesn't really stop ambushes being broken.

Pretty sure I'm just forgetting some ambush techs here.

>>98507829
Yeah, people ITT will tell you that 3e Dragon-Blooded are weak and lame but their Excellency Charms alone are more powerful than even the Solars' and cooler to boot. And it goes uphill from there.

>>98507940
Prettty much everyone thought she was a Fire Aspect, I believe, until RotSE gave her a writeup where she was stated to be Earth.

>>98507944
Neither of those Charms let you get ambushes off easy, as Crimson Razor Wind can, again, be pre-empted by seeing through Observer-Deceiving Attack, while Open Palm Caress works at most once a battle in specific circumstances.

>>98507933
Anon, it's an ambush attack. Don't be a cunt and change the topic. Anyways, I already said I thought there were fewer ways to pull off ambush attacks then I remember there being. I don't remember ambushes being as hard to pull off as you are implying.

I'm confused though, you think stealth is overpowered. Do you think ambush attacks are overpowered? How overpowered are we talking?

>specific Charms in mind
Kill yourself woman. If you have charms to talk about, talk about them. I don't really mind being wrong about the number of ambush charms in the game, I was just pointing one out because I was asked.

>>98507940
She was earth in 2e, the scarlet refers to hers ruby anima banner.
I prefer it because it links her to Mnemon, earth being the central element and push her away from the scarlet phoenix.

>>98507964
I'll ask someone else who knows the game. I feel you are drastically understating how easy these are to pull off. Ambush was never some impossibly hard thing to do before the errata, I don't know why it'd be that way after.

>>98507968
>Anon, it's an ambush attack. Don't be a cunt and change the topic
This might be one of the most shameless attempts at moving the goalposts as I've seen. Just to be clear, are you saying that you were wrong here
>>98507779
>If a charm says it can make an ambush attack you don't need the setup. You just make an ambush attack.
and did not actually mean to say that there are Charms that let you make ambushes without setup?

>>specific Charms in mind
Kill yourself woman. If you have charms to talk about, talk about them. I don't really mind being wrong about the number of ambush charms in the game, I was just pointing one out because I was asked.
Wow, it's getting even more shameless. It's almost impressive in a way.

>>98507978
Sure, go ask someone else. I mean, you could also just read those Charms, which you probably should've done before making any kind of a claim about ambush Charms, but maybe there's less of a chance of misunderstandings if you let someone else do the reading for you.

>>98507989
I swear another poster is going mention a way to make ambush attacks easy and this whole thing is going to be so stupid. Gotta admit, this is a new argument for me.
>more shameless
All my hate.

You didn't tell me if you think ambush attacks are overpowered or not.

>>98507644
>Ambush attacks aren't like, sneak attacks. You can be fight in someone's face and blast them and it's an ambush, because charms.
Is there a distinction between attacking someone who isn't aware of you, and attacking someone from a position where he can't properly defend himself?

>>98508006
I know the rules better then you. But hey, maybe I'm wrong and ambush attacks actually are super hard to get off. Or just moderately hard. Pretty sure they're not, however.

>>98507859
White Wolf is incapable of learning from the past, and apparently the card game design is intentional.

>>98508021
Like, in a story? Yeah of course. This is why reflexive charms are nice, no setup. I feel like I'm misunderstanding you however.

>>98508010
I've stated my opinion on Stealth multiple times already. Please read, anon, if nothing else then at least these short, short posts made on /exg/. If you want to ask for clarifications on something I've said the ask away, but I'm not going to just keep repeating myself if you don't show some sign of actually reading and understanding what's already been said.

For the sake of context, are you the guy who adamantly argued in the last thread that Robert Vance wasn't a part of the core writing team, and accused others of gaslighting when they pointed out that he factually was? Because if you are, you're really at a point where you should both lurk more and actually read the books before getting into arguments?

>>98508045
I can't help that you're wrong, anon.

I'm just going to say that your opinion is that stealth is overpowered and that ambushes are overpowered. I don't understand why you'd be so adamant defending it thinking this but, you know, women.

>>98508021
Yeah, ambushes and surprise attacks are distinct things in the system, thoughthe latter, too, require Stealth rather than just an enemy being off-balance or the like.

>Fatal Ruse Flourish (Essence 3; Prerequisite Charms: Captivating Aurora Feint): An
attack that benefits from a distract gambit becomes an ambush.
Turns out hearteaters have uses for gambits.

>>98508055
Yeah, the rules for it are pretty short. Don't feel like digging up the page number.
>>98508028
I've heard the card game thing before and I still don't really know what it means.

>>98508069
Me neither, the only definition that I know of, is the paranoia deck building.

Random thought, how scary would a DnD solar be in exalted. I guess they be fairly scary to a normal dragonblooded. They would have a lot of attack and damage dice, a lot of dv and soak. They would be even scarier if they are mook of a level 20 wizard or cleric.

>>98508076
Is it a MTG thing? There is a meta where if you didn't draw a counterspell of some kind you lose. Until someone tells me otherwise I'm going to say that's what it means.

Maybe it's a yugioh. Who knows.

>>98508090
It is from 2e.

>There is a meta where if you didn't draw a counterspell of some kind you lose.
Basically this but with charms, like it was mentioned earlier in the thread, it is another name for 2e's paranoia combat.

I never saw "play exalted like a card game" be mentioned in a positive light, during the forum era of discussion, it was always a negative.

Just remove ambushes from the game. Problem solved.

>>98508156
Don't remove ambushes, just let the ambusher attack with Stealth rather than combat skills and call it a day.

>>98508178
>*laughs in Stealth Supernal Solar 1-shotting the Yozis at Essence 1*

Think about it, lore wise, what is the difference between ambush and surprise attacks?

>>98508246
I don't think rolling Dex+Stealth instead of Dex+Melee is going to do that.

>>98508262
Whether the target is expecting an attack from somewhere, he's just not sure where, or not expecting an attack at all and therefore not being prepared to defend himself from one.

>>98508262
Awareness of the attacker
An ambush is on an opponent who isn't prepared for combat and can't react
A surprise attack is on an opponent who is alert and on guard, but doesn't know specifically where the attack is going to come from

>>98508325
Wouldn't both be the same? Since otherwise, you get ambiguity over guardsmen on patrols.

>>98507859

Redpill me about this paranoia perfect issue of 2e and how bad would it be for a group of well-rounded and pretty collaborative/generous-to-each-other players some of which are more crunch-oriented than others, everybody (even the ST) at their first stint with Exalted

>>98508384
A guardsman properly on patrol and sentry duty would be difficult to take by ambush. You'd have to get in their blind spot to ambush them. And there's a difference between being on guard out of a fight and in a fight.

>>98508539
Yes, but wouldn't it be just a surprise attack with some difficulties? Instead of of a different thing altogether?

Like I said, just get rid of Ambush as a mechanical concept and you'll be fine.

>>98508680
No

>>98508887
Why not?

>>98508956
Let me write out a scenario
A character tries to avoid the attention of a guard on sentry duty who doesn't know he's there while hiding in the dark jungle, and rolls Dexterity+Stealth versus the Guard's Perception+Awareness
The character succeeds and the guard is unaware of the character's presence. If the character chooses they then can choose to make an ambush attack. They and the guard roll Join Battle, and the character can make a withering or decisive ambush attack.
Second scenario, is the character failing to establish surprise and the guard being alerted to them. In subsequent rounds of combat, they can attempt to re-establish surprise by hiding in cover/hiding place. If successful they then can only make a surprise attack because the guard is actively in the fight and aware that they are under attack.

>>98507660
in my game, i have an atelier-manse that mass produce those so that my mortal blacksmiths can churn out minor artifact way easier.

>>98508437
well, basically, everyone can one-shot everyone so the only charm that you have to always have ready is a perfect defense in a combo with a charm to be aware of if you are being ambushed. all in all, it means that everyone as 2 hp bars, your mote pool (that fuel your perfect defense) and your actual HP (that get 1 tapped if you lack the motes to perfect defense).

it makes for pretty boring combat because if you use charms other than perfect defense, you are either: 1) not have your perfect defense ready and die OR 2) have less mote to fuel your perfect defense.

see "twilight essence reactor" for the end game of this. (basically, infinite mote generation for effective invulnerability) this is basically why exalted 2.5 exist.

>>98509011
>>98509116
>Those scenarios.
Did the devs just copy the kill screens from skyrim?!

>>98509133
I was thinking that as I was writing it up
But in Skyrim re-establishing surprise would just give you the ability to Ambush again

God I'm remembering how much I hate decisive attack bullshit
Mortal armor provides no Hardness, so an Ambush decisive attack against somebody wearing articulated plate is the same as somebody wearing a chain shirt

>>98509189
I meant the killcams, they are the cinematic finishes, but by the way they are coded, some times they will act like perfect attacks doing 10× the damage while ignoring defenses.

>>98509116
2.5 is still perfect paranoia it just does it better. Another simple way of putting it is all Exalted are Blood Mages that use HP to cast. More casting means more closer to being dead. Combine that with combat being hyper lethal.

3e is the same way combat is the same if you run it with the errata. There are plenty of reflexive charms that can help you but you can't actually use them, for both NPC's and PC's. There isn't a simple fix either because the games are being under both game paradigms at the same time. Of course things were going to be fucked. It's weird because the thing that bugs me the most is probably all the wasted words. You're telling me every single charm I want to work against ambushes I have to add a whole clause to it? Fuck you. There has to be a way to word that that's a 1000x cleaner.

It makes charms read so ugly.

>>98509466

It also hitpoints based on how stylish you are. From what I understand paranoia combat gets a lot stronger if you can consistantly pull off two dice stunt to replenish willpower.
>>98509199
Seems like a fix might be to have decisive attacks made by ambush be effected by soak. Which would balance them a lot more.

>>98509476
I... vaguely remember in 2e that regen that level of motes, consistently, was actually a pain. Although stunts in all editions have issues, having to ask for opinions after every roll is tedious af. Practically you just assuming everyone is two-point stunting and that they try to actually roleplay.

Old infernal excellencies had the same issue. They work perfect and are a lot of fun! Until you have an off day and can't think of shit or just want to chill a bit more during the game. You sort of assume everything will work because if it doesn't you don't have a character lol. There is nothing to learn here but it's still neat.

>>98509466
>More casting means more closer to being dead. Combine that with combat being hyper lethal.
Yes, chung mentioned it in his homebrew, the solution the devs found was the overdrive mps

>>98509466
An easy solution is just adding a "ambush ok" tag.

So how DO you fix exalted combat? What would you want it to look like?

>>98509575
Pay me 60k and I'll tell you.

>>98509575
Nice try Vanceminton.

>>98509575
A combat-invested Solar being able to take on a Circle or group of Dragon-Blooded in a cool and thrilling battle using the combat system and Charms without cheese

Question how hard is it for exalted or gods to make a system that tends to reward those who worship them. Something like a system that makes all those who pray to them for bountiful harvests get a better harvest.

>>98509844
Like an automated system?

>>98509665
So we have Morkdon for the old devs and Vanceminton for the other ship?

>>98509903
Holdorke and Vanceminton.

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>>98509903
I think Vanton or Vancinton sounds better.

>>98509541
overdrive, riiight. i remember him giving alchemicals charms that put motes in the overdrive pool.........but they dont have charms that actually give them an overdrive pool.

>>98509844
there's a celestial spell and an infernal charm (cecelyne) that permit you to hear the prayers spoken to you. thats a great start to get worship because you can actually give them what they want.

>>98509857
That would be great. Or something else that makes it practical for exalts to make worshipping them beneficial for their followers.

https://acoup.blog/2019/11/15/collections-practical-polytheism-part-iv-little-gods-and-big-people/

Like this is a good series of article that points out in the past, people worshiped gods and spirits because they thought they would be rewarded. Let it not be said my exalted does not keep his promises.


>>98509947
That good for small cults, but it rather hard to handle the needs of the large cults.

I have a question. Can you run Exalted as "Endgame" content for D&D? Like, if my players get up into high enough levels where they're fighting gods and stuff, can I then have them ascend to godhood and then use Exalted to continue the campaign?

>>98510032
That seems like it'd be too much work for too little reward. I'd say no. I do think, however, that Exalted is the perfect place for an Isekai. Way better then what DnD is. Which is funny because Exalted is pretty 'strict' with its setting. Hard to describe.

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>>98509940
Yes, a 3rd edition was in dire need.

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>>98510032
Exalted wasn't designed for high level play, use godbound instead

>>98509977
>That would be great. Or something else that makes it practical for exalts to make worshipping them beneficial for their followers.
You'd probably have to homebrew Charms for that sort of thing, and probably have to have spirit subordinates to help grant your cult's wishes

>>98510056
Ah, I forgot about Godbound. This works because I'm using OSR D&D anyway.

>>98510089
Feels like how the rules how a godbound work might still be difffent enough to trip you up. A level one godbound works very different than a level 20 fighter.

>>98507659
>you just want to ambush attack as often as possible. Resources to burn, limited defenses against it, don't need to sneak to do it.
>don't need to sneak to do it
>attack as often as possible
>ambush
what did anon mean by this
you need to win stealth to do ambush
you cannot ambush twice in the same scene

>>98507962
>Yeah, people ITT will tell you that 3e Dragon-Blooded are weak and lame but their Excellency Charms alone are more powerful than even the Solars' and cooler to boot. And it goes uphill from there.
I don't think I've actually seen anyone claim that. Dragonblood are fun to play, one of the most fun splats of 3e, and I don't think I've seen anyone claim otherwise.

Dragonblooded Excellencies are decent enough, a dicetrick on top of a normal excellency is pretty cool. Their dicecap is crap, somehow crappier than it was in previous editions, but it's still useable.

The problem with Dragonblooded in 3e has always been that the rest of their charms are shit. Many of them are worse than and overlapped by the Dragonblooded Excellency that they must have had in order to take the charm. Also, that 3e Dragonblooded the book dragged down the average on a lot of cross-splat charms like the Immaculate styles (which are, in and of themselves, very underpowered) and artifacts in the book.

>>98510378
>>98510089
Don't just play Godbound, give them Godbound levels and keep playing D&D. Treat it like a 3e prestige class. It's pretty easy to just stack Godbound's levels on top of normal D&D levels and most divine powers are system agnostic enough to run as-written.

>>98510720
>I don't think I've actually seen anyone claim that. Dragonblood are fun to play, one of the most fun splats of 3e, and I don't think I've seen anyone claim otherwise.
I think I've seen people complain about Dragon-Blooded in every place for Exalted discussion I've visited. I've definitely seen it here relatively frequently. You, yourself, mention the most common things people complain about:
>The problem with Dragonblooded in 3e has always been that the rest of their charms are shit. Many of them are worse than and overlapped by the Dragonblooded Excellency that they must have had in order to take the charm. Also, that 3e Dragonblooded the book dragged down the average on a lot of cross-splat charms like the Immaculate styles (which are, in and of themselves, very underpowered) and artifacts in the book.
How big a deal these issues are and how much they detract from the fun of playing Dragon-Blooded obviously varies person-to-person, but finding DBs the worst designed 3E splat aside from Solars isn't a super rare opinion.

>>98510915
Sure, but you said people called 3e Dragonblood weak and lame, and that's what I was disagreeing with. Not... any of that.

>>98511050
Anon, people do call Dragon-Blooded weak and lame, and their Charms aside from Excellencies being shit is, obviously, the reason why.

>>98511070
>Anon, people do call Dragon-Blooded weak and lame, and their Charms aside from Excellencies being shit is, obviously, the reason why.
You are a very large percentage of the people doing it.

>>98511084
In this one specific thread right now, sure. In general, no.

>>98510378
>>98510735
I think I'm going to do this. I'll let my players continue past the standard levels into "Epic" levels, and then once they achieve some goal or ritual they can start acquiring levels in Godbound.
What should the ascension into becoming a god/demi-god look like?

>>98511244
If I remember right, epic levels are way stronger than Godbound levels or standard levels, you may want to replace epics with Godbound rather than have both.

>What should the ascension into becoming a god/demi-god look like?
Depends on how you want it to look in your campaign. It could be as simple as a subtle growth of inner divinity. It could also involve light shining down from the heavens with a clamor of bells and a thundering pronunciation of ascension. Lightning could strike them while a snake bites their heel. Maybe they don a literal mantle of divinity or pull a sword from a stone that bestows divine mandate. It could just happen naturally as a result of adulation from the masses, if any person becomes a god and starts accruing Godbound levels when they have enough people worshipping them, and if that's the case then maybe only the faithful can see or feel it as their god becomes more real than moments before.

>>98510720
>you need to win stealth to do ambush
>you cannot ambush twice in the same scene
He is under impression that there is a plethora of charms and other effects that let you treat an attack as an ambush regardless of circumstances (so even if you're not hidden and the target is aware of being attacked, basically "set defense to 0 against this" in other words). As previously proven in the thread there are TWO in the core book. Sure, you might argue that Thrown is therefore the only combat ability you should ever take and spamming Crimson Razor Wind is the only combat tactic that makes sense but I think that's a stretch.

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How are you going to end your old problematic Exalted games to play the new socially conscious Jadeborn that all of Exalted's writers are being forced to write on by pain of cancelation?

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>>98512046
How many exalted clones are they publishing? I remember one that had not!space mariners in it

>>98509977
mmmm, i think theres a swlihn charm that spontaneously generate a self sustaining cult over time? not sure, im not into cult stuff.

>>98510052
i like 3rd even less so its not the answer (for me).

>>98510056
isnt there a whole bookset for high powered first age play? dreams of the first age i think.

>>98512690
I said that a 3rd edition was in need, not that Holdorke did a good job.

>>98511515
>Sure, you might argue that Thrown is therefore the only combat ability you should ever take and spamming Crimson Razor Wind is the only combat tactic that makes sense but I think that's a stretch.
It's especially a stretch because Crimson Razor Wind can only be used after a succesful Observer-Deceiving Attack, and not being fooled by an Observer-Deceiving Attack is a Wits+Awareness roll against a difficulty of (Solar’s Essence + [the number of 10s on the
attack roll], with 1s on the defender's roll detracting successes. Especially at low Essence, that's not going to reliably work on the enemies you'd really want it to work on.

>he needs a charm to pull off an ambush
lmao

i am in your walls

>>98513126
>he told me he's in my walls
Now it won't be an ambush, then.

>>98512046
Part of me feels like this is OPP making this as WW can cut them out of Exalted at any moment.

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Would it be a bit bull if I create a custom Sagacity charm for my Zenith that lets him use it to summon into being floating weapons of Essence and use them like I'm Kreya

>>98513626
Did nudevs forget to port burning chakrans charms to 3e and Essence?

For temples, would a single temple in a city typically service multiple gods, and sometimes have specific temples for gods of special importance to the city/people?

>>98513661
what do you think?

>>98513709
Depends on what the pantheon is like. most gods would be fine with sharing a temple with others but as soon as one of them becomes big enough they will ask for some sort of exclusivity.

>>98513661
>>98513888
I should specify, I mean using Sagacity in place of Combat for the summoned weapons as well.

>>98513626
Yes, a bit. I mean, there's ways to get the image, but a solar sagacity charm is not the way. Port Thousand Blade Style or make a spell for it or make artifact beamklaives with TK evocations or talk to sword-spirits and convince them to come into your orbit or- y'know stuff like that.

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Hypothetically if you had a Solar whose bones became animated as a skeleton warrior and slid out of their throat because their flesh was too strong to rip open and kill them, leaving the Solar a puddle of boneless flesh... would giving them a new stone skeleton using sorcery create problems when their normal skeleton starts to regrow via Exalted super-healing? Asking for a friend. Not very familiar with the limits of natural Exalted healing and how well it adapts to cybernetics/prosthetics.

>>98514518
If their bones being ripped out of their body killed them, they would stop being Exalted as their Exaltation decouples from their souls.
Exalted healing is more of flawless healing (no scars unless its cool) and maybe regrow a finger, but not to the level of a hand.
If the Solar survives their bones being removed, then getting a magic stone skeleton probably wouldn't be affected by their healing.
In terms of cybernetics, the Exalted would probably adapt well to any cybernetics they chose to take, but too many might trigger a problem. I think an example given in a book is if a Solar Exalted transforms into a giant octopus a good deal of their Charms wouldn't function correctly.

>>98511244
>>98511358
>>98510735
Speaking of which, I always had a lot of trouble visualizing what the endgame/high level exalted looked like, because the core books just say tldr you have a million points to spend on attributes/traits/charms/abilities.
The best I can do is make conjectures from the scroll of exalts using the oldest exalts.
>Your essence is capped at 8 or 9 because that's how much Chejop has.
>All the attributes are at 8, nobody's attribute is above 10.
>Every single ability is above 5
>Dozens of charms, basically you have completed charm trees for each favored abilities
>So many spells you just list the favorite/most used spells.

>>98514629
>Speaking of which, I always had a lot of trouble visualizing what the endgame/high level exalted looked like
That's because it's kind of a cluster fuck
Essence 3-5 Charms are what they used to take on the architects of reality and cast them down
Essence 6+ Charms are somewhat difficult to imagine the scope of and what they should do
That's why they had crap like Zeal shoved in there
Doing Elder Exalted as playable chatacters correctly is always going to be difficult. I disapprove of how they tried to just awkwardly sidestep Elder level powers in 3E though.

>>98514573
>>98514518
the charms stop working problem is tied to the shape of the body, if their new skeleton is still shaped like a human skeleton it would work fine for charms

>>98514629
All their canon high end stuff is tied to artifacts.

>>98515282
I wasn't talking about the stone skeleton, but more of theoretical future augmentations

Thaumaturgy got done dirty

>>98515978
especially because it would have been easier to leave it in a state where we could bring over thaumaturgy from previous editions, they just had to make it 1-3 dots or 1-5.

>>98516002
They wanted to make sorcery and sorcerous workings even more special I guess

>>98516046
if they wanted sorcery to take the space of thaumaturgy to glorify it further they would have brought across or added stuff that let sorcery actually do that - they would have, at minimum, rewritten Ritual of Elemental Empowerment for 3e, or done something like it. they didn't

what they actually wanted to do was cut out everything about exalted below the exalted tier, removing all simulationist elements to force it into a narrative slop where only the players matter

>>98516258
I can understand cutting out thaumaturgy as it was in 1E and 2E because it was a pretty big, wordcount-intensive subsystem of its own, and one that wasn't really of interest for most actual PCs. Cutting out the things thaumatrugy could do was a bad idea, though, and I think current devs agree. At8D, for instance, describes some types of lower-level magic that obviously exist in the setting and are accessible to mortals but that don't have any kind of a mechanical system attached to them. That such magic should be a thing in Creation definitely seems to be the developers' view. I wish 3E had originally just made Occult more of an active skill that you can use for warding, exorcism and so on, maybe with a something similar to Lore backgrounds being required for more specializes magics. Then you could've had Occult Charms that interact with and enhance that basic system, making mortal-level magic something relevant to Exalted occultists, too, and therefore more deserving to have wordcount spent on it.

Can you actually travel in Elsewhere in exalted?
I always thought of Elsewhere like a basic precursor to the Umbra in WoD.

>>98516412
I don't think so. 2E had one comic, I don't remember in which book, where someone figured out a way to break into Elsewhere, with the intention to steal stuff people had stored there, but found that he couldn't move or interact with his surroundings there. At some point during 3E one of the devs stated that Elsewhere wasn't really a place in the sense of it being some specific dimension shared by everything stored Elsewhere, it was just that things sent there were conceptually, well, elsewhere, ie.by definition not here regardless of where "here" is. I can't remember if that was Holdemorke or Vanceminton and don't really know if that's the current official stance.

>>98512046
So how is the Storypath Ultra system, anyway?

>>98516412
The answer is generally no. Anything that goes into Elsewhere is stasis, in their own little skintight bubble of space. They aren't stuck in time - clocks still tick, food still rots, and that one Twilight could still think even if he couldn't move.

There are two exceptions to the rule that I can think of. Autochthon sealed himself away Elsewhere behind the Seal of Eight Divinities, and people can travel around inside of him. There was also a manse power in 2e, one of the deadly traps, that shut the doors of a room and sent the entire thing Elsewhere, where whoever got locked inside would be trapped and starving forever until the manse owner released them.

I think - and this is opinion, extrapolation, headcanon - how it works is that the Elsewhere space you put something into is always only just big enough for it, but that anything sealed inside it can still move as normal. I think a seal that wasn't airtight would have the space form inside of the container, freezing everything inside, and that breaking through the outside of a container - like if that manse power's chamber had windows which the victim broke - would just lead to the insides freezing. This is why there is no exit or window into Elsewhere from Autochthonia, and you never reach an edge or dig out through the bottom - such a gap would leak unpassable space into Autochthon's insides until it hit an airlock, sealing that area off.

>>98516438
>>98516561
Oadenol's Codex.

>>98516561
>They aren't stuck in time - clocks still tick, food still rots, and that one Twilight could still think even if he couldn't move.
In 2E things don't decay according to the little blurb in Core while in Elsewhere
In 3E I couldn't find anything that explains Elsewhere? It just shows up as a term

>>98515978
True, but the mindset that sorcery and even charms mogged thaumaturgy at every level meant no exalted PC would ever bother to learn thaumaturgy. So thaumaturgy just became a world building thing.
It also doesn't really help that thaumaturgy doesn't really have any "cool" spells, like spells you can use to blow people up.

>>98517106
It was a st faced thing, similar to spirit charms, it exists to help STs out.
Not every mechanics needs to be used by solars.

>>98517172
How would thaumaturgy help the ST, exactly? With PCs almost always being Exalted, thaumaturgy isn't really relevant in the hands of NPCs, either, except as a worldbuilding thing.

>>98517013
Elsewhere in 3e AFAIK is more like early 2e/1e instead of 2.5. Elsewhere isn't a place or location, it's a state of being. You don't go to a place called Elsewere, nor are items stored in a vault in a place called Elsewhere. They are literally elsewhere, defined different.

>>98511515
There are more then two ambush attacks, we were talking about solars only and we found three? Not counting artifacts or how mathematically powerful ambush really is or how worthless it makes other types of attacks.

It surprises me that a mechanic that everyone thinks is shit and admits is overpowered and breaks the entire game is something they actively want to defend. I miss Math Guy, he proved good points about ambush being retarded and Vance being a huge faggot with a tiny dick.

>>98517455
There's not one post ITT defending ambushes. There are several posts arguing about how big a problem they are, and pointing out that one anon was juts plain wrong about how easy they are to pull off with Charms, but it should be pretty damn obvious how those are separate matters from whether ambushes are a good mechanic or not.

>>98517496
This just confuses me even more because the way people used to play the game? That you can find examples of online on forums? You could use reflexive charms in response I don't ever recall anyone complaining about it. You say people aren't defending ambushes and I'm not ready to deal with that level of gaslighting.

>It's not easy to pull off ambushes with charms
It literally is though. Didn't we find three ambush charms just for solars? How many attack charms even are there because three seems like a good chunk of em.

>>98517535
>You say people aren't defending ambushes and I'm not ready to deal with that level of gaslighting.
You're not ready to read what people say and engage with it, is surely what you mean to say.

>Didn't we find three ambush charms just for solars?
One that can only be used if you first successfully use another Charm that's fairly easy to foil, one that works once a scene and requires you to have successfully re-established Stealth after having previously landed at least one decisive attack, and one that works once per battle, on the first round, and only if that the enemy beat your Join Battle (and therefore has already had a chance to punch you) and also failed to overcome your Guile with Read Intentions. None of those Charms just lets you make an ambush attack with no hoops to jump through.

>>98517615
See, this is what I mean about gaslighting. How do you go from saying you're not defending ambushes to posts like these. I'm just glad that we've reached the "Yes, I admit there are multiple ambush charms out of a pretty limited pool of attack charms". Convincing you about the math of things can come later because I'm going to need help with that.

>is surely what you mean to say.
I know more about the game then you and you've said very little. It'd be nice to know if people share your sentiment about it being overpowered and the best form of attacking in the game whilst also not being a big deal. It's more a number thing at this point once you accept all that.

Why not make Thaumaturgy a pseudo-Craft? Hear me out:
>instead of being a separate system with its own XP cost it's folded into the Occult skill
>Occult 1 gives you full proficiency in a Thaumaturgical discipline of your choosing and lets you attempt both Thaumaturgical practices from other disciplines and from a higher level than your current one, within reason
>full expertise in other thaumaturgical disciplines is purchased at a flat rate of 1 Merit dot, like how it's done with Languages
>for reference use the Thaumaturgy writeup of past editions to map out what a given character can do reliably and what they can attempt, if at a slightly higher difficulty
Net result: you have a logical progression from a neophyte who knows some tricks at Occult 1, to a wise village elder at Occult 2-3, to an incredibly gifted polymath who knows about almost anything at Occult 4-5. Plus we could incorporate the idea another anon above put forward, making Sorcery into super-Thaumaturgy. With that paradigm Sorcerers would be individuals who studied Thaumaturgy deeply enough to transcend it and shape the world with just their force of will instead of cleverly bending it. That's the difference between someone who is well-read enough to use the software and someone who writes his own.

>>98517615
Oh, and also:
>>98517535
>How many attack charms even are there because three seems like a good chunk of em.
Have you ever actually read the book? Because thinking that three Charms is a good chunk of Charms in an edition known for having way too many Charms is an interesting guess.

>>98517677
How is pointing out how those Charms actually work defending ambushes, exactly? If you have problems with comprehending English, I understand, it's fine, but you should work on that before trying to have a conversation in English.

>I know more about the game then you and you've said very little.
Okay. So far you've demonstrated absolutely no knowledge of the game, not even knowledge about how the Charms you're arguing about work, but okay. Cool story, bro.

>>98517706
Not too different from what was suggested here >>98516400. It'd not be a bad idea, though I'd prefer sorcery and thaumaturgy being separate, with thaumaturgy being about understanding and utilizing the laws of Creation and sorcery just breaking those laws.

>>98517709
You didn't need to capitalize english you weirdo. You're right about one thing in your weird, confusing defending ambushes ass way at least.
>cool story, bro
It really is.

>>98517706
I can see it but a big question is why. They both have there own little system that makes them feel neat so removing one of those is confusing to me. Maybe if your table really loves craft I can see it. Oddly enough I don't even think it'd be hard to pull off if you're determined, craft rules are very flexible.

>>98517750
This might be the first time I've heard anyone say that thaumaturgy in 3E feels neat.

>>98517798
Look, if we're being honest here it's not the subsystem I'm interested in but people like it. People love craft and I'll never understand that either, dealing with tokens doesn't seem fun to me at all. Then I talk to people and it's all, fuck yeah. Tokens.

>>98517820
What...? Craft is probably the most complained about subsystem in 3E, and as I said, you might be the first person I've seen say something nice about 3E thaumaturgy. I'm pretty sure the only reason people don't complain about it more is that it's such a nothingburger that it's whole existence is easy to forget.

>>98517875
>no one says good things about craft or thaumaturgy
You're tables seem miserable. You just ask people what they like about it. It's not hard.

>>98517888
Well, they don't like Craft or thaumaturgy, and considering how often people bitch about Craft on the internet, your table is most likely an outlier if your group loves it. There's a reason there are multiple full rewrites for the Craft system, anon. As for thaumaturgy, what do all these people who apparently like it actually like it for?

Ambushes are fun to use, but not fun to be on the receiving end of

The constant miscommunications caused by sheer abysmal reading comprehension ITT has convinced me that humanity will go extinct not because of any natural disaster or war or Skynet-style machine uprising but simply by dint of humanity becoming too mentally retarded to function.

>>98501781
What’s the story behind the OP Lunar?

What are some methods that a Solar n use to infiltrate the Blessed Isle, BTW?

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>>98517798
I saw it happen before; it was because of the person enjoying a location with special thaumaturgy rituals, but their enjoyment hit a wall once they realized that they couldn't interact with it.

>>98519014
The character comes from an artist called "Melon22" he likes to draw slightly toned women with exploding/torn clothes and large breasts.
but infiltrating the blessed isle? you'll need to do it after the civil war triggers. if the solar/fox waifu triggers it, make Sure no one figures it out untill a few massacres happen so they don't trust each other enough to stop.

>>98517455
>early 2e
What do you mean early 2E for Elsewhere usage

>>98519014
If you're trying to do it before the Realm civil war then you'll probably need someone to run interference for you on the Fate side of things and try to limit your Essence expenditure as much as possible, and even then it'll probably be a temporary stay where you build up a base of operations to stage further infiltration efforts out of. It's probably better to have mortals and Dragonbloods do the initial infiltrating for you anyway.

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>>98519191
That anon is likely claiming that 2e changed how it portrayed elsewhere mid development, now we need somebody to check if he is right or not.

>>98519334
The "no decay" thing was from 2E core though
The first thing they printed in 2E which is why I was confused

>>98519338
Ok, unless the discussion changes to "it was a place or not" it ends now.

It was surprisingly fast, usually these kind of discussion last a bit longer.

>>98517730
>thaumaturgy being about understanding and utilizing the laws of Creation and sorcery just breaking those laws.
Not terribly different from what I had in mind to be honest, just different wording. By the way, what did you think of the idea of using each splat's native charms to enhance what can be done with Thaumaturgy?

>>98517750
Please read my post again. Nowhere did I say anything about removing Thaumaturgy entirely as a system, my proposal was making Thaumaturgy an inherent function of having dots in the Occult ability.

>>98519782
>By the way, what did you think of the idea of using each splat's native charms to enhance what can be done with Thaumaturgy?
I think it makes thaumaturgy more interesting and appealing to players, which is a good thing.

>>98518484
Given most people no longer have an incentive to think most of the time, yeah.

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What charms does each Exalted need to create a group of loyal heroic mortals?

>>98519977
Presence or Performance Excellencies
That's it really

>>98519977
resource 5, no charm necessary.

>>98519977
They don't need a charm, merit, or even social ability dot so long as the need is great enough. It's the central premise of heroic fantasy of any kind that groups of heroes loyal to each other can form up and take down big bad evil guys. The trouble is usually finding them. Astrology, Lore, or investigation charms would be my recommendation there.

>>98519977
With Eye and Seven Despairs forming up a circle of Abyssals to slay Eye and Seven Despairs while remaining loyal to Eye and Seven Despairs as their collective lover as our best example, all you need is the willingness to take a lot of dick.

So I notice that needles and the Subtle tag are written as if not dealing damage while delivering on-damage effects is supposed to be an upside for a specialist. Do people just not notice they've taken a needle unless someone points it out or something? I would have thought that, since Join Battle is still rolled and decisive attacks are being made to deliver poison here, that any attack with a needle would be completely obvious and the Subtle tag would be pure downside.

>>98520413
While an common enemy is a must have in many cases I'm mostly trying to picture how does [splat] gathers and trains followers into loyal lieutenants besides spending the experience to buy Retainers.

>>98521469
>Do people just not notice they've taken a needle unless someone points it out or something?
People notice the needle, the subtle tag just indicates that there isn't a fucking tracer effect to your character or some shit like it.

>>98521522
>People notice the needle, the subtle tag just indicates that there isn't a fucking tracer effect to your character or some shit like it.
But... there is? It breaks concealment and outs you instantly, everybody's always aware of where non-concealed characters are.

>>98507086
Exalted can't even do a decent looking layout, and people wanting sexy art?

1ed and 2ed may not have been exciting to look at (in terms of layout), but we had lots of good art and accepted it as part of B&W printing at the time. Now it's all full color and you can tell ol' Rich gave it a graphic design budget of "your name in the credits plus a ham sandwich".

>>98521469
The subtle tag is nonsensical and nonfunctional so I would just ignore it.

>>98521594
>Half of each corebook be like

>>98516521
I love it desu. It's basically the Chronicles system with Exalted Essence splat design and a lifepath thing.

>>98521522
>I'm mostly trying to picture how does [splat] gathers and trains followers into loyal lieutenants besides spending the experience to buy Retainers.
Ah home grown
Presence Charms/Excellencies to solidify their loyalty, and provide an emotional link to you.
Resources to provide for them and their families, and to give them luxuries. Getting people comfortable under you is a great hook for continued loyalty.
War Charms like Tiger Warrior Training Technique allow you to make them into brave elite warriors.
Lore Charms like Harmonious Academy Methology allows you to make them more well-rounded in the arts and Mental Attributes.
This is all 2E I'm drawing from, but it applies roughly to 3E as well.

>>98521637
And then on the other end of the spectrum you have the garotte in Dragonblooded being the best clash weapon because it's Light for the best accuracy bonus and two-handed for the +2 clash dice.

>>98507876
>The community AND the devs are actively gangbanging the fun out of it.
Damn, I didn't know Exalted and 40K had so much in common...

>>98521935
They drank from the same sources after all.

>>98521831
Which splat would be capable of giving a character the Midas touch? Just Infernals, or am I forgetting something?

>>98522070
Are you referencing something specific or just the ability to give someone the ability that whatever they touch turns to gold?
If the later, I would say any Celestial-tier sorcerous working could do that.
Within natural Charms, Infernal are probably the best bet for weird stuff.

>>98522103
>Are you referencing something specific or just the ability to give someone the ability that whatever they touch turns to gold?
The latter.

Given how completely fucked this ambush system sounds and how hilariously poorly the internal balance of some splatbooks are balanced such as the dragon blooded, is there any reason to swap to or play 3rd over 2.5 other than because its new and shiny?

They both seem to have the same core issues - 3rd possibly more so and I'm having trouble forming an argument in favor of moving to 3rd given how shit it sounds.

>>98522238
Don't let 2e apologists hoodwink you. 2e (and yes, that includes 2.5e) has almost nonexistant crunch for anything that isn't combat, and the combat is ass. If you don't play Solars or Infernals you're utterly irrelevant. It was never "actually pretty good", it was never "better than it's remembered", that is just cope. Sunken cost fallacy is a hell of a drug.

>>98522238
>3e.
>shiny and new.
It more than a decade old at this point, the barely-changed-compared-to-the-final-product leak is nearly as old as 5e D&D

>>98522262
>Don't let 2e apologists hoodwink you. 2e (and yes, that includes 2.5e) has almost nonexistant crunch for anything that isn't combat, and the combat is ass
It had a bureaucracy system, that the 3e's devs forgot to port to over, which is the reason for why 3e lacks one.

>>98519152
>he likes to draw slightly toned women with exploding/torn clothes and large breasts
What a fuckin chad...

>>98522401
It also had the Mandate of Heaven system. Wanna tell the folks who never played 2e about it?

>>98522401
I guess 3E has the Project system and mechanics

Well, Exalted sucks. What about Scion, is it any good?

>>98522622
>It also had the Mandate of Heaven system.
It was the system that I mentioned.

>>98522835
Nor for bureaucracy

>>98522940
Go on, defend Mandate of Heaven. Make my day.

>>98522401
>It had a bureaucracy system, that the 3e's devs forgot to port to over, which is the reason for why 3e lacks one
There's something really funny about the way Holden and Morke will overexplain Charms like God-King's Shrike, make falling damage deadlier to Exalts than exploding volcanos simply because it inexplicably bypasses the application of all perfect defences EXCEPT Ablation of Brass and Fire that actually matters to defending against them, and makes fighting mounted enemies harder than fighting T-rexes. But then forgets about basic shit like this. Really doesn't help the impression significant parts of 3e were written solely to win internet arguments.

>>98522908
Fly, you fucking fool. 1e somehow has greater DEX supremacy than Exalted, and oscillates between raw stats that can throw tractor into orbits and powers that amount to throwing really fancy fireballs within 15 feet that can also do your taxes. And you are apparently supposed to account for the idea Fate will fuck you and the enemy NPCs over during gameplay. 2e has...somewhat better mechanics, but completely shotgunned it's lore into an incoherent mess where there is no masquerade but somehow history is unchanged, the African pantheon thinks everyone is racist for deeming some gods to be Titans (even though Cronus is literally over there yearning to eat his kids again), a few gods like Nidhoggr are reduced to one-note jokes, they introduced divine mantle shit to justify nonsense like Ymir not being the real Ymir but his trans daughter, and the threshold for being a god has been lowered so much that PAI MEI is a Chinese god for some unfathomable reason.

>>98523225
>PAI MEI
The Kill Bill character or the historical martial arts character

>>98523432
Yes.

>>98523225
I know they're obviously biased against white people/cultures, but it really cracks me up how the Scion 2e books are filled with literal essays about respecting other cultures, but than they do a write-up for a Culture that underwent actual, complete genocide... and they still have the gaul to make some of the Gods explicitly trans and shit

>>98523869
My favorite bit was them throwing Xipe Totec under the bus in order to whitewash the aztecs a bit.

>>98523869
>they do a write-up for a Culture that underwent actual, complete genocide... and they still have the gaul to make some of the Gods explicitly trans and shit
WTF?

Is there a reason that derangements are incurable by Solar medicine, other than some "Muh mental illness is muh identity" troon bullshit? There's an essence 3 charm that will grow back a whole leg but can't get rid of someone's addiction completely.

Our retarded twilight in a game I'm in got kissed by a Lorelei and failed all his rolls on it, so now he's got an obsession derangement for her, and it's becoming a problem. I've made the creature oath itself into compliance but I want this gone and I can't find anything in the book about fixing it.

>>98524386
I don't remember well, but it was given over in the Onyx Parth forum, I think it was related to hypochondria.
I remember it as people complained how you couldn't give them treatment.

>>98524386
>There's an essence 3 charm that will grow back a whole leg but can't get rid of someone's addiction completely.
If you want a quick fix, add a line saying that it can now cure derangements. Alternatively, if that feels too cheesey, make it so any Charm that can downgrade supernatural mental influence (I haven't checked but I'm sure Solars got those) can now downgrade derangements. Give it a rest period that feels right, then you can use it again to downgrade it further. Repeat until it's gone.

>>98524386
There's that Occult Charm that says it lets you battle a derangment in the target's mind or something

>>98524441
Yeah Soul Projecting Method might work, but unfortunately, at the moment, the only guy with a dot in Occult is the guy with the derangement.

>>98524407
I'm just going to ask my GM to let me do something like this.

>>98524470
Wouldn't killing the Lorelei solve the problem too
Can't obsess over it if it's dead

>>98524483
I'm almost certain our Twilight will just use this to go on some insane "I must recreate her from the Wyld" quest.

>>98524470
Option 3, which I realize belatedly: If your GM says insta-curing Derangements is too OP, then ask him to allow Medicine Charms to downgrade Derangements with the same logic as my post above. Use Charm to downgrade, rest period, repeat until cured. Or instead allow Medicine Charms that treat diseases to treat Derangements as if they were a disease, using the same rules for recovery, convalescence and whatnot.

>>98524483
>Can't obsess over it if it's dead
Great idea, let's ask Gervesin.

>>98524496
Wholeness-Restoring Meditation already does this, as it lets you scale them down from defining to major and down to minor, but explicitly will not let you get rid of a minor. And, unfortunately, a minor derangement is still a problem, and I want it gone. I asked the GM if I can just take a new charm that branches off WRM to fix it permanently.

>>98524507
>I asked the GM if I can just take a new charm that branches off WRM to fix it permanently.
Unnecessary if you ask me. Just ask him to rewrite it so it can cure it entirely when it's down to Minor intensity.

>>98524507
Order Affirming Blow would remove it too
But it also sounds like your Twilight is the schoiar of your group

>>98524483
People obsess over dead people all the time, though. Well, not all the time, but it's hardly super rare.

>>98524386
>Is there a reason that derangements are incurable by Solar medicine, other than some "Muh mental illness is muh identity" troon bullshit?
Soul stuff probably, in-character. Rather than troon bullshit, it's anti-troon bullshit, because souls exist and derangements are flaws, curses, and destabilizing elements in them. It's detectably not just personality traits, so it goes against the agenda, even if the devs didn't realise that.

Also, can't you just turn it down to Minor with Wholeness-Restoring Meditation? There shouldn't be a problem at minor. Derangements don't naturally get worse just like they don't naturally get better, and minor derangements are just the equivalent of a minor intimacy and need you to botch a Willpower roll to have any other effect, which is unlikely to say the least (and you can just spend Willpower on the wp roll if you don't want to fail). It's barely even a personality quirk at that point, and W-RM can turn it down to actually zero so long as you keep treating symptoms you really really really care.

The only situation I can see where Wholeness-Restoring Meditation doesn't make this no longer a problem is if the Derangement was made by that one sorcerous initiation in Scarred by Nightmares, in which case bad luck you're fucked and the player literally asked for it.

If you STILL want it gone... go grab a Dragonblood with Chaos-Banishing Revelation Gesture.

>>98524493
It sounds like the issue is that your Twilight player cares, more than that the Twilight cares.

>>98524919
>go grab a Dragonblood with Chaos-Banishing Revelation Gesture.
Or have a Solar learn Order-Affirming Blow

>>98524946
Learning charms costs experience. Bullying Dragonblood costs nothing.

>>98524948
>Learning charms costs experience. Bullying Dragonblood costs nothing.
For everything else, there's MasterCard.

Why do 80% of E2+ Sidereal charms cost willpower? How the fuck are you supposed to handle it? E2 is just endless pain, you can't even take Joyous Grasshopper Spirit yet.