They hated him because he wanted to ensure historical accuracy.
>>98530552How will this make your setting better
>>98530552tarot should exist as long as cards exist.
>>98530622it's surprisingly new: mid-15th century in Italy. The first records of playing cards in Europe date to 1367 in Bern and they appear to have spread very rapidly across the whole of Europe, as may be seen from the records, mainly of card games being banned. Scholarship has established that early European playing cards were probably based on the Egyptian Mamluk deck. Playing cards were most likely invented during the Chinese Tang dynasty around the 9th century, as a result of the usage of woodblock printing technology, and it gradually spread from there to Persia and the rest of Asia.
>potatoes>chocolateWhat did Europeans even eat before they got all the good crops from the Aztec, Inca, and other Prehispanic civilizations?
>>98530552Yes, because he's boring as fuck for demanding a genre called fantasy be slavishly accurate to actual history, when 99.99999% of fantasy settings draw from about a dozen different time periods anyway rather than one specific time frame.
>>98530732Most medieval fantasy settings are really renaissance or early modern in disguise.
>>98530721Turnips, onions, meat. Tons of stuff.Though it really depends on what part of europe you're in, since places like Turkey, Spain, Russia, and Greenland are all quite different and eat different cuisine. Stuff like coffee, pepper, marijuana, etc comes from Africa/Asia, so it's not technically impossible for those foods to show up, but that depends on how trade works in your setting.
>>98530763>>98530721
>>98530694tarot itself as long as its metaphysics are really , really new. considering what most people believe , borderline modern , but as far as I know the practice of telling the future trough reading cards is timeless. and as simple as a barbarian.
>>98530721why did you think they became the most powerfull race ever.they were hungry.
>>98530552People who want to ensure historical accuracy should run historical games. People who run fantasy games should care about things being internally consistent, not about things being sinilar to any specific period of RL history.
>>98530811/thread
>>98530552Defining your imagination by things that aren't in it is just sad.
>>98530552Counterpoint: medieval people had some kind of tea, it's really not hard to come up with the idea of putting some leaves into your boiled water.
>>98530552counterpoint:
>>98530552>No castles>No gunpowder>No knightswhat am I playing, a fucking bronze age game?
>>98530552We don't hate you because you want historical accuracy, we hate you because you want to dictate how people engage with a genre exploring the impossible and improbable, you obnoxious cunt.
>>98530552glasses, wage labour and tarot are completely medieval in origin so wouldn't be out of place in any given fantasy setting. the chinese had sunglasses like a thousand years ago already, and wage labour (as it developed after the black death) really only necessitates a larger supply of work for a small workforce, that's itwhy you would bitch about medieval castles I have no fucking clue
>>98530552>ensureenshure*
>>98530552>scientific thinkingthis has always existed>modern medicinethis, obviously not "modern" medicine, but medicine in general, has existed since ancient times. Yes, they had pills, too.Libraries existed, watches existed in different forms, are you fucking stupid you don't think button holes didn't exist? Do you have any idea of the history of fasteners? Motherfucking pockets?
>>98531878Probably Dark Age mudcore or early high medieval, judging from it.
>>98530552My setting is 100% historically accurate.100% historically accurate to itself, faggot.
>>98531878Knights first emerged as heavily armored mounted warriors in the 8th century, Charlemagne's time:The distinct social class and chivalric culture of knighthood, with Kings and lords granting land (fiefs) to warriors in exchange for military service, fully crystallized between the 10th and 12th centuries around Norman Conquest's.12th–13th century is The Golden Age of Chivalry.
>>98531878Most historians mark the start of the Middle Ages in 476 AD with the collapse of the Western Roman Empire, though the shift was a gradual transformation spanning roughly 300 to 600 AD.While the Middle Ages lasted roughly 1,000 years (c. 500-1500 AD), the iconic pop-culture image of stone castles, full plate armor, and chivalrous knights only dominated a 300- to 400-year window.
The iconic "knight in shining armor" look didn't actually exist until around 1380-1400. That full suit of articulated steel lasted barely 150 years before we leave the middle ages and enter the early modern.1000–1300 (The Chainmail Era): Protection meant a heavy iron maille shirt (hauberk) worn over a padded linen gambeson. Knights draped cloth surcoats over the maille to prevent sun-glare heating the metal and to keep out rain.1300–1380 (The Transitional Era): Steel knee caps, shin guards, and breastplates were gradually added over maille to counter bludgeoning weapons, leading to brigandines (leather vests lined with riveted steel plates).1380–1550 (The Golden Age of Plate): Master armorers in Milan and Germany perfected fully articulated steel. Weighing 45–60 lbs distributed evenly across the skeleton, these bespoke suits allowed knights to mount horses unassisted, sprint, and fight with remarkable mobility.During the Italian Wars (1494–1559) heavy cavalry like the French Gendarmes still charged in complete suits of plate. To survive early handgonnes and arquebuses, armorers forged the steel thicker, pushing total weight up from 50 lbs to 70–80 lbs.1550–1650 (The Gunpowder Obsolescence): As firearms advanced, armor had to be forged thicker to stop bullets (leaving actual dent marks from testing, known as "proof marks"). Full-body coverage became too heavy to wear, stripping armor down to half-suits and cuirasses before it vanished from the battlefield.This included the Thirty Years' War & English Civil War (1618–1651). Armies abandoned lower-leg armor (greaves and sabatons) because heavy leather riding boots provided enough protection. Cavalry transitioned to three-quarter armor-helmet, cuirass, pauldrons, and tassets down to the knee-worn by pistol-wielding Cuirassiers.By the 18th century, plate stripped down to just the chest and backplate (the cuirass) paired with a steel helmet for the heaviest cavalry.
>>98530721Fuck loads of bread, eggs, milk, and meat.Also honey and nuts. Sometimes honey and nuts with bread, eggs, milk, and meat.
>>98530721Fancier bits of meat and vegetables cooked in verjus, pottage using the less fancy bits, wholegrain bread preferably from communal ovens.
>>98530552How am I supposed to play a 1930's game without zippers or alcohol?
>>98535922And that makes them anachronistic because...?>>98535969Why do you think that any of that has anything to do with historical accuracy in fantasy games?
>>98530552>historical accuracyWe live on a space ship, dear
>>98536880It's useful to have a context to see tech progression. Also, avoid the whole, 10,000 years wearing full plate.
>>98536898Unless, of course, there's some in-setting reason for 10,000 years of wearing plate. I agree that looking at RL tech progression is useful, though it's also useful to keep in mind that technological progress in a fictitious setting doesn't have to go at the same pace nor necessarily through the exact same phases as in real history.
>>98530694Thanks Wikipedia.
>>98530572>still unansweredLol
>>98536898>Also, avoid the whole, 10,000 years wearing full plate.Name 1 game
>>9853704610,000 Year Full Plate War will be my next game setting.
>>98537166*Years* meant to type
>>98535873Gunpowder is present in both of those and ALL of the latter. Knights are present in all of both unless you're talking what, right when Rome collapses? No castles is not applicable to any post-neolithic setting. Humans have built tower fortifications at a bare minimum for most of history.This is a spam thread.
>>98537046Forgotten Realms.
>>98535826>this has always existedBRAINLET ALERT!have you ever read how ancients used "logic" to view the world? how aristotle could literally just claim stuff and for 2000 years no one bothered to check? proper scientific method with experiments and peer reviews was invented by the church as a byproduct of the inquisition. you literally have to thank christians for le heckin SCIENCE™
I find it interesting how the chuch treated witchcraft like a silly superstition for most the most part during the middle ages. Withburning crazes belong to the early modern period, in the context of the Protestant-Catholic bickering and Puritanism, and it was mostly executed by secular authorities.
>>98537272>Noooooo don't blame us for telling the secular authorities to kill people on our behalf it was all them!No
>>98530572FPBP bodied that freak
>>98537166Holy kino>>98537211>Forgotten RealmsSelf-explanatory by title alone
>>98530552no snaps implications for whatever you ad gameplay?
>>98537305NtA but have you ever read up on the actual workings of the inquisition? they always gave multiple chance for repentance or apotheosis of "wrong" beliefs. only the most stubborn were given to the authorities which in turn sentenced and carried out the death penalties. considering the inquisition more or less directly ushered in the spanish golden age there is little you could reasonably hold against them
>>98536785>zippersmost bags do fine with latches as do most clothes. there is no immediate need for them>alcoholdon't have a setting in america I guess? europe and asia never where so henpecked they went full retard mode
>>98537517>europe and asia never where so henpecked they went full retard modeEuropean here, that's bullshit. Europe is, in fact, the region with highest consumption of alccohol per capita in the world, and high alcohol consumption is not a modern phenomenon but something with a long history. As for Asia, while they drink less there, various sorts of rice wines are very much Asian, Japanese make pretty nice whiskeys (and I hear that going drinking with your coworkers after work at least used to be an expected thing for salarymen), and so on.
>>98537595your reading comprehension seems lacking so allow me explain: alcohol was banned in the US during the time we now call prohibition which was promoted by feminists that didn't like their men to drink, nagging on so long the average joe caved and america banned alcohol. that was the henpecking resulting in an absence of alcohol.europe and asia have, as you pointed out, always consumed alcohol culturally which made it practically impossible for nagging bitches to get it banned elsewhere (not that they didn't try)
>>98537640You're the one whose reading comprehension seems lacking, as you responded to a post asking "how am I supposed to play a 1930's game without zippers or alcohol", obviously with the implication that alcohol needs to be a thing for that decade. Your response makes no sense in that context. Of course, prohibition was not a US-only thing. Nordic countries had partial or complete prohibitions, and strong temperance movements have been a thing in a lot of other countries. More important to that is your obvious misreading of the post you replied to, though.
>>98530552>Smoking>Anachronistic Yep! Ameritard post.
>>98531878Likely varg's new snownigger game since no metropolis so it is lower tech than bronze age Mediterranean.
>>98531878Not even bronze age. Regulations regarding wages paid for labor are found in the Code of Hammurabi. Guess we're playing some kind of Quest for Fire shit.
>>98537744Of course, that would depend on how centralised is the state, which in the case on medieval states, not very much, even if they had a surprisingly amount of laws, which people violated daily.
>>98537700to be fair I don't subscribe to the theory that smoking as a concept was introduced from the americas/arabs either but if only considering written sources available there didn't seem to be any notion of inhaling smoke recreationally in europe untill tobacco was introduced. but considering as well that common practices of the serfs and farmers weren't really documented this could simply be an oversight
>>98537907considering every city had a curfew after dark and bakers needed to bake their bread according to pictures on the city walls etc. there seems to be quite a low threshold to be in breach of law
>>98530552Cathedrals date back to late antiquity and wage labor is even mentioned in the bible, so unless you're going for a bronze age or early antiquity setting this isn't entirely accurate
>>98537976Yes, but at the same time police forces didn't really exist. City guard are quite anachronistic as portrayed most of the time. When they existed, they were more of a military counterinsurgency blunt instrument who often were underpaid and just accepted bribes and even had normal jobs like tradesmen. Most policing was done by hue and cry system where normal citizens themselves would do the policing or be collectively punished if they didn't. Then there were part-time Watchmen, who doubled as firemen, volunteers, and thief-taker bounty hunters.
>>98538017there is only one (1) so called cathedral built before the medieval period starts. if you want to be pedantic we can argue by definition and say any church with a bishop is a cathedral, which would make the earliest cathedral whatever hovel was the oldest church in rome if we however think of cathedrals like the common person thinks of one (cologne cathedral, notre dame de paris) it's a distinctly high to late medieval type of structure. but since OP didn't specify if he is against the organisational concept of cathedrals of the architectural concept we can only guess what's the source for the butthurt here
>>98538101medieval law was still the right of the strongest. if you were actually free, there weren't any courts you could sue someone, safe for the occasional trade dispute. if you wanted protection of any kind you either had to pay for it yourself or become someones serf, thus making any crime against you a crime against your lord which gave you a certain bargaining chipthis also worked the other way round. serving the right lord meant the difference between a slap on the wrist and outright execution. italy became notorious for this in the late medieval period
>>98537960>Carthaginians (whom made a bunch of colonies in europe) did smoke things recreationally>But erm... hecking evropean aryanisch didn't because eerrrmmmmm>...>because they just didn't!!!!Historical ""accuracy""=Anglo/Nordic """European""" belly gazing. You niggers where dwelling in swamps until like, a 1000 years ago, doesn't mean the rest of the world was. Literally the niggers of europe. I thank god every day I have you "people" blacklisted from my games, but it isn't like you play games anyways lmao.
>>98537244who the fuck said aristotle was scientific? I'm talking about the average person, people who actually figured out how to do stuff and refine processes or at least abandon ones that didn't work.
>>98530552What kinda period would be this even referring to?
There is no inherent value in imposing perceived historical accuracy on a setting that's not trying to be historically accurate
>>98540813I would assume there is value for you in having your head free of shotgun shells, something you will not be able to continue having unless you do what I say, when I say it. Play. Historical. Settings.
>>98540865
>>98530811>People who run fantasy games should care about things being internally consistent,they should focus on things being fun or interestingleave cinemasins to the internet to complain about
>>98535969>1550–1650 (The Gunpowder Obsolescence): As firearms advanced, armor had to be forged thicker to stop bullets (leaving actual dent marks from testing, known as "proof marks"). Full-body coverage became too heavy to wear, stripping armor down to half-suits and cuirasses before it vanished from the battlefield.More became too expensive to reliably outfit soldiers in. >>98537507Yeah, the Inquisition went after Muslim and Jewish false converts rather than "Witches." This is why Ham became a "traditional" holyday/holiday meal.Protestant countries are where most of the witch trials occurred and in several cases the trials were started by professional "witches" accusing competitors in hopes of improving their own businesses.
>>98540922>Protestant countries are where most of the witch trials occurredThis shit got schizo, too. I think there was some Swedish or Norwegian or something town where a random kid accused like half the town, a ton of people were killed, and eventually someone killed the little snot in revenge.
>>98531878even sWord of hyperborea has castles
>>98535903>1066We wuz Normanz
>>98530721Cum of whoever was higher in social hierarchy.The king was always hungry.
>>98530552No libraries?What are we playing, doc, adzes and arrowheads?
>"Humans don't appear to be to advanced, they haven't even discovered intergalactic travel, should be a simple invasion." Said the alien cleaning his musket.
Is there any scientific research available regarding OP's sexual preferences?
>>98530694So same as chess basically.>inb4 ancientItalian ren.
>>98540307>who the fuck said aristotle was scientific?>regarded as the scientific authority on everything he wrote for literal thousands of yearsI can't help it if you're uneducated but at least don't flaunt your stupidity >average people refine processes by trial and errorwhich has very little to do with scientific thinking and the scientific method. you know like in setting up a hypothesis with recreatable tests for so called proof? that's what science is about if you couldn't tell
>>98540177you're a schizo. first, northern africa isn't europe. second, written sources (in europe) do not exist. sources from outside europe don't lend themselves to eurocentric settings which the bigger part of fantasy is. third, it fucking says right there that it could be an oversight in historical data. but your thinly veiled hatred for whitey outs you as a WE WUZ revisionistkindly kys
>>98535969>1550–1650 (The Gunpowder Obsolescence): As firearms advanced, armor had to be forged thicker to stop bullets (leaving actual dent marks from testing, known as "proof marks"). Full-body coverage became too heavy to wear, stripping armor down to half-suits and cuirasses before it vanished from the battlefield.To expand and avoid a possible misleading implication, armored formations vanished when artillery became agile enough to aim at troop formations rather than mountains and other things that don't move. There is no level of body armor that can protect someone from weapons meant to demolish fortresses, and elite armored units were extremely expensive.
>>98537507Or how the Inquisition was a reaction to secular authorities executing people and seizing their property on accusations of heresy. Rome's response to end this was to declare only the Church had the authority to prosecute people for religious crimes, which required they set up an office to do it, which due to being set up by learned men of God included modern ideas such as standards of evidence and rejecting confessions obtained under torture. Torture still was practiced, unfortunately, but it had restrictions like forbidding certain well-known methods of torture, prohibiting asking leading questions or telling someone under question what you want them to say, and requiring a scribe be present recording everything. A confession had to later be repeated at a later date in court to have any legal weight.
>button holes>libraries>scientific thinking>gothic vampires and victorian fairies which are literally fictionPeople have been following essentially the scientific method and doing science experiments since literally before civilization. It's always so funny to me that these idiots who over-obsess over "historical inaccuracy" in fiction invariably end up thinking that everyone in the past was a bumbling shit covered retard wearing rags and rolling around in mud all day like in Monty Python. Very obviously just overcompensating for their own historical ignorance.No one who has seriously studied history believes that technology and cultural development is some linear sequence that cannot happen out of order. The Aztecs used stone tools but build a giant floating city with 60 meter pyramids and had public education, writing, and healthcare. The Inca didn't have writing but they had state funded scientists who bred a trillion varieties of potatoes for every possible climate so they virtually eliminated hunger in their enormous multicultural empire of 15+ million people, and, funnily enough, they had medieval style castles. You can mix and match technology a bit bro, all that matters is your setting is internally consistent and FUN. These autistically rigid rules are purely masturbatory and do nothing but limit your creativity and make your setting feel like a sterilized copy of the real world.
>>98552894This but unironically.
>>98552894There was something like this in a story. THere was an alien species that gauged the power of other alien species by their mastery over fusion. Humans didn't have miniaturized fusion reactors on their ships so they were an easy prey. Turns out, humans were using laser sails. The result is that they got wacked by thousands of death rays when they tried to invade the Solar sytstem.
>>98556044Similarly there's The Road Not Taken which has aliens literally invading earth with matchlock weapons, but humans with their advanced firearms and missiles absolutely kick their asses and they find out that discovering FTL travel causes a society to stagnate.
>>9853055218th century pirates, zippers, snaps, modern democracy, the renaissance, modern medicine, and ninjas do not belong in a classic medieval fantasy. They can probably be present if you REALLY have a good vision, but this is something I have yet to see. I'm just assuming they can be welcome parts of a game's (or any medieval fantasy story's) setting because good execution can validate a mediocre idea.Gunpowder and gothic vampires can be present if done right. A bit immersion breaking potentially, but again, it depends, because I've seen them done well in a medieval setting plenty of times.Medieval castles, medieval knights, cathedrals, wage slavery, and metropolises were literally present during the medieval era (the former two are even stated to be medieval) and anyone who things they are not are retarded. Heck, wage slavery and metropolises are bronze age, so unless you're playing a game based in the fucking Neolithic those are unavoidable elements of the worldbuilding, if not something the players must experience.>>98535969I'd argue greathelm chainmail knights are plenty iconic in on their own. It's fine.
>>98554491hit the nail on the head here
>>98530771Beans went both ways, depending on species.
>>98530552Don't care, gonna eat potatoes and wear plate mail while riding my dragon and killing demons before popping into the library for a light read, might get in some gun practice before relieving myself on a flush toilet and buttoning up my pants.
>>98530552Eh, some of these I can understand, like not wanting modern medicine or gunpowder in a fantasy setting. Though I can forgive and look past some alchemical medicine bullshit since it's cool and feels more mystical.But stuff like potatoes are fine, they just "feel right" to me in a IRL based fantasy setting. You could have it so that potatoes arrived in europe much earlier through the middle-east who in turn got it from China. Extremely unlikely to happen but you could kind of bullshit an explanation. I say this since aren't there myths and legends of the ancient chinese supposedly managing to cross the pacific and contact the americas?I'm ok with chocolate, coffee, liquor and tobacco, them existing is fine, but it'd obviously be something only the rich and nobility could afford.
>>98554491there is a lot of assumption and bad faith in your argument. how can you equate the civilizations of middle and south america to the european ones developing at the same time? it's a fun concept thinking about what fundamental concept can be eliminated from a society and how it affects said society but there's no need to be this vitriolicthe lack of any kind of wheel in the inca empire is a great example. like you said they had a perfectly functioning (proto socialist) society but with certain caveats like an overreliance of llamas and the consequent laws regarding their ownership. the incas especially are a highly interesting case since they were relatively isolated and never developed what we usually see as prerequisites for such a highly sophisticated societyI think the lesson is to work around perceived historical facts. societies can develop to a level of success despite lacking certain key elements. how this lack and it's workarounds affects the day to day life is the meat and potatoes of building a "historically accurate" fantasy setting
>>98564943It might be me, but it’s always felt like “historical accuracy” is kind of a meme when it comes to ttrpg fantasy settings, since accepting the premise of things such as magic and monsters being real should already skew things in a very different direction from how we understand “civilization” should look like. So it’s kind of already a game of picking and choosing which developments “feel” right and which don’t.
>>98565049It is, because the problem is DND (as always).On the surface it KINDA has, shall we say, more or less definite end of the middle ages/renassaince vibes on the aesthetical level. This and a (genuine, if casual) interest in the pre-industrial world means a fantasy nerd is gonna have an idea of what a falchion actually is.On the other, the trappings of dnd are so fucking shallow that "accuracy" has not more sense than searching it in Final Fantasy (which on the contrary is crystal clear in its trappings that no, this is not any pseudohistorical period). But this is not so apparent if you have no education on history.Mix the two, and you have dunning-kruger morons thinking they can have their cake and eat it.
>>98530552Oh yes, my efforts fructified, you anon finally memed him.
S T R I N R A T HTRINRATH
>>98568652Strinrath?Strinrath.
>>98530732He's just another autistic man-child thinking rigidly because of his brain's deformity. Some draw big fat homosexual sonic the hedgehogs praying to a cross, others obsess with historical accuracy in fantasy settings.
>>98568237Oh hey, it's the DND bait thread guy. Is this your thread?
>>98530732Let's be honest. The average fantasy writer knows less about the period than the average Crusader Kings 2-3 player. There are tons of untapped stuff from the medieval period, and history in general, that gets ignored or underused instead of generic copypaste fantasy setting.
>>98568774Yeah, but his problem is, he's pushing the "historically accurate" FANTASY setting; not the "alternate history" setting.He basically made a 'Sonichu' and he's proud of it being the most original character ever.
>>98530572Aaaannnndd, killed him in one hit.
>>98530721There's a lot of edible plants we consider to be merely weeds these days.And a lot of wild game and fish. Those used to be much more plentiful.
this thread again?what are you mining, moshe
>>98530552This is why you include one futuristic society in your fantasy setting.
>>98530552I think they only hate him because he tells others how they should be playing their own games.
>>98537211Scale mail is more prevalent in forgotten realms than plate thoughbeitforevermore
>>98530572>over 100 posts>no answer
>>98536898Who told you that I want to avoid that?
>>98537517how did you manage to miss the point this hard?
>>98556156I'm not running medieval fantasy.
>>98564943gee, I wonder if there could be a reason that the Inca never had a reason to invent the wheel. No, of course not, real life is a game of Civilization and all tech advancss follow an inevitable progression on the research tree.
>>98570420This^/thread
>>98570529They did invent the wheel. They had toys with wheels. The issue is that they never developed it further.
Bu-but you don't understand!All of you are the worst GMs ever because you never stated that your shirts should not have button holes!PRIORITIES!! You retarded normal people have such low standards! This is why we can't have nice things!
>>98572378Well, rookie mistake, he's a poser and a pseud, he never complained about modern plaid schemes, nor modern shirt patterns, he only complained about button holes. All and every of the anachronisms should be noticed and denounced in detail, or historical accurate purity will suffer in your fantasy setting.
>>98572363That's not an issue.
>>98572780it kinda is. think about how much of early manufacturing relied on some form of wheel. hell, even big scale milling can't be done without either immense manpower or some form of wheel. a civilization not utilizing the wheel is forever doomed to stay pre-industrial. similar problem with the lack of writing
>>98575857That's not what not an issue is referring to. Christ.
>>98530552in my fantasy setting the most eaten crop is soi beans, because the wise cleric scholars have found that it's the perfect superfood
>>98530552which history?
>>98569761There used to be so many Prarie chickens across the Mississippi you could hear the mating booms for miles, and so many fish in Lake Tahoe you could flick a net in and come up with one every time.
>>98530552What setting is this, ancient Egypt?
>>98535873Cathedrals existed in the medieval age
