Just giving guys a space to hang out and engage in a hobby together is sexist to them, though.
They can tell us the things they took over aren't made for us any more, but the moment we start enjoying something else, they screech about being excluded, and try to take that over too.

>>98534096
>tabletop games--wargaming and role-playing games in particular--used to be exclusively male.

They never did. Indeed, read a 1700s-1800s novel: you'll find the usual card game evening for the upper-middle class with women as well as men.

There's one particularly prominent, ancient, fraternity where there's only men hanging out.
2B1ASK1

>>98534096
As I recall there's evidence the Bronte sisters played some sort of game with toy soldiers, and that was well before Wells published Little Wars - a book which explicitly invites girls to play. Games were never exclusively male. They were overwhelmingly male because few girls were interested, but they were never excluded.

Certainly. Both sexes need time away from each other, or just to be in an environment where you feel you can vent freely, or interact in manners unavailable to mixed company. You can see that with the rise of mens talking groups and what not, and if bonding with someone can occur over kicking a ball, playing toy soldiers, tales of let's pretend or not-so-small railway layouts, then so be it. The beauty of the traditional 'clubhouse' (perhaps less so for an RPG group of course) was the mix of ages and backgrounds, lots of different ways to interact, bounce off, learn and get advice (oblique, of course) which I don't think we get online.

>>98534096
>local game stores for ttrpgs and wargames exclusively male
Better words would be largely male.
They weren’t exclusive in the sense that they were excluding women. They were and still are dominantly male spaces. This isn’t a bad thing if women aren’t being intentionally excluded. To my knowledge they just choose not to go for not being interested and also to not deal with mtg unwashed player smell and being awkwardly interacted with by the socially inept.
Still spaces for women only and spaces for men only are not bad things.

We used to have male only spaces. Now we have foids creeping around, trying to steal our style of being schizo nerd losers. They could be any one of us. They could be you. Get out of here you don't have a penis, quit boobling up our spaces wenches. You couldn't understand the fraternity of unwashed armpits and arguing about if silver needs to be enchanted or not. Now we got to make everything pg and lame. Can't even rape a goblin. What has this world come to.

>>98534096
I'm not trying to be an asshole, but I don't get why is this such a frequent topic here. Sure guys need to hang out together. Sure it can be a game night. We can talk about the state of the hobby endlessly, discuss trends and whatnot, but if your friends are into RPGs, and you want to bond with them over this particular shared enjoyment, nobody will stop you. And no, gaming doesn't need to be a male-exclusive thing in general to work as a male safe space in your specific case (or mine).

>>98534096
It's a hobby that appeals to men more than it does to girls. That's it. There are some girls whom like toy soldiers and playing games but the majority just don't get it. They have girl things we don't get, so it balances out.

>>98534210

Yeah, I admit I don't really feel the urge to be "only with the guys" (never did, my friends growing up where more or less a 50/50 split), what do I even lose playing with women? Maybe some banter?
... but anyway, whatever, if you feel that do that by any means, a movie night, go smoke weed, whatever. Just don't bitch that games and RPGs in particular need to be a "male only" activity anymore than the others.
(indeed, I always felt that you're better with women at the table in like 95%+ of the RPG nights I had, but that's not the point)

>>98534210
I think it's more that women are influencing IPs via market principles and cultural politics to be more attractive for women rather than men, and a lot of these changes are a detriment in the eyes of men who are invested time, money, and love in said IPs. There may be rare outliers here who are genuinely into it, but being blunt, the vast majority men and women like different things, and women largely started getting into the space when it became more of a commonly sociable thing like being a gamer or nerdy, without genuine respect or interest in the settings modified for their tastes. Pretending like this isn't a thing just aggravates us because we know you're being willfully ignorant instead of attempting any dialogue. We've seen this with movies, games, and TTRPGs. It's the reason why 5E is the most popular spammed slop being played. It's why every race can be anything without any identity. It's why every setting plays the same. And now we're at the point, for example, where dark sun is being castrated to appeal to a modern audience. Call it resentment or incel behavior, but you can't call it wrong without lying.

>>98534361
You nailed it anon.
At the end of the day though having a big pool of customers is what businesses want and they will do a lot for that.
What irks me is when newcomers try to pretend to be oldheads or always into the thing before it got popular and socially acceptable because popularity.
Is it really a death sentence socially to admit that you took notice of a popular thing because it suddenly rose in popularity and you happened to like it?
To me it is better to be honest about that than be caught lying about being caught in a trend after the illusion of always being into it is shattered.

>anons immediately pointing out EXCEPTIONS

lmao shit's like clockwork.
so, you're proving the rule. gg lads!

>>98534361
I can see your point, sure, I don't want to downplay it, but I see it more as a generational divide and less as a male-female one. The hobby is fracturing with the widening of the fanbase and the passage of time, the blue-haired girls in college rpg clubs are wanting something entirely different from a game night than I do, but that can't and won't stop me from enjoying roleplaying my way. I can easily imagine it would be way worse if I was looking for a new group to join or if I had to play with randos regularly, but that's not the case, so I'm less angry about the whole thing. After all, there are publishers still catering to my tastes, I never read the foreword of rulebooks, and if I don't want to have, say, Primaris in my Dark Heresy game, there won't be any, period. On the other hand, I'm in my forties, and putting loud twitter assholes and pressure groups aside, new stuff just seems to be tailored to younger audiences and their real or imagined sensibilities, and I made my peace with it. So yeah, I do think you have a point, I'm just way less pessimistic, but I concede that it's probably because I have a stable group for 15+ years.

>>98534305
We had girls at my table, one of them still joins occasionally, and the gaming is good either way. It's sometimes good to be around just my male friends for a variety of reasons (my wife is bored to tears when we start going into the weeds with the fireman talk or, indeed, roleplaying), but it doesn't matter whether that happens around the table or over a beer, the important thing is that it happens.

>>98534210
I always get the feeling that these are younger anons (or just ageing out of being young) who are trying to find words to express to ... screechy types, shall we say, that they just want a boys night in/out.
The likes of this gobshite >>98534178 arent helping matters either.

>>98534648
What I find weird and probably kinda delusional is not the want for "male spaces". I mean, I don't think I would like them, but whatever.

What is weird is the idea that an entire hobby should be male only. Like, imagine soccer fans start talking about excluding women from stadiums.

>>98534681
They would with pitchforks and torches if women forced women into mens teams

If women can exclude men from women spaces men should be able to exclude women from men's spaces. If you don't want me using your changing room you can't come to my Warhammer club, simple as.

Would you rather have a woman or a transwoman managed your favorite ttrpg for the next 10 years?

>>98534681
>What is weird is the idea that an entire hobby should be male only.
Yeah. It's either hobby first, making the sex of fellow enthusiasts mostly irrelevant, or male-space first, making the exact nature of the pastime mostly irrelevant.

>>98534419
What are the exceptions you’re taking about? I’m not sure what is the problem of pointing things out.
Genuinely asking here.

>>98534096
No, kill all men

>>98534635
Ok. The way you see it is wrong, then.

>>98534681
they would if they had any sense.

>>98534096
Just because no girls wanted to play with you doesn't mean they weren't playing.

>>98534096
I don't think there's a need to loudly and forcefully exclude women from tabletop or any setting. Despite what monetarily motivated culture warriors might want you to think, women do not deliberately seek out male-only/dominated spaces to "subvert" them, they genuinely don't care whether they exist or not. In my experience, women have only appeared in my tables when brought along by a boyfriend or sibling, and rarely cause problems.

Of course, I play tabletop games with my friend group which is predominantly male. You have friends, right anon?

>>98534096
lmao they're eating saltines

>>98535862
I'm genuinely surprised there's no ashtray on the table

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>>98534096

Honestly, you want a group that is IMMUNE to any kind of female or exterior involvement?

Play Historicals.

There is no universe in which women or the diversity crowd is trying to break into Historical wargaming.

What people are really complaining about, is having to play with children who need fascinsting baubles to be entertained.

Play
Historicals.

>>98534096
Why is this a question? You control who has access to your table. If you all want it to be boys only, then nothing is forcing you to let girls in

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My gf is the only person I can convince to play 6th ed with me tho :(

>>98534096
Individual groups can have whatever makeup the members of the group want. I think male spaces in the sense of there being, say, a male-only game store or something like that would be pretty weird, but, like, if you get together with your buddies in your living room, then surely nobody is going to crash your session to make sure if there are women involved? I'm sorry, maybe I misunderstand the question, but it seems clear to me that the hobby can't be male-only but your group certainly can.

>>98536279

Smelly dumb greytide scum. Not your girlfriend, but you bastard you.

>>98534109
Women loved card games at the same time for the same reason that if they play video games now, they are much more likely to play word games, solitaire, or mobile games than something both strategic and non-abstracted. In a TTRPG context, a lot of women will like to play make-believe with shipping, but very few of them want to play something which involves logistics and detailed long-term strategy.

>>98536191
This polemic, as well as those that summarize to "play [rules-lite] OSR instead", is the RPG equivalent of conservatives telling smart young men to "just go to trade school". I want to have my cake and eat it too, I want a visionary fantasy setting with speculative elements, and detailed logistics with weapon tables at the same time. In the 1980s, this was normal. The reason that this is impossible is because people who specifically hate detailed simulationism (but are willing to play both RAW board games and narrative improv) have united with the goal of making it impossible for any fantasy game to have realistic and complex rules again. Whether this was accidental or intentional does not matter, because it happened.

I'm almost 40 and got my first White Dwarf 32 years ago. In my experience people didn't want to exclude anybody from getting into hobbies like this, they just weren't interested in it at all.
I think you'd maybe see one woman playing at the big tournaments I used to go to in my late teens / early twenties. The rest were just there to pick up their kids/husbands.
Then in my early 30's I get back into Magic and notice one or two women at my local LGS's, but I also notice some of the nerdy guys starting to dress as women too.
I think a lot of what you see today in most nerd hobbies is happening because most nerds are mentally weak one way or the other. They want to share their hobbies with other people because they're friendly (outside of the "alpha" nerds who are some of the most dreadful people you will ever meet), but they also don't stand their ground either. So much so some of them even start to fucking wear dresses and shit.
Nerds are fucking strange and weak and I just get tired being around them now.
I've moved to never playing outside of my group of friends I've grown up with. We play different games fairly regularly and I've never had more fun with these hobbies than now.

>>98534096
>do you think there is a place for male-only groups?
male inmates prison
male only toilet
male only changing room like at pool facility

>>98534096
Guy on the left has to be edited

>>98534096
>do you think there is a place for male-only groups?
Sure, been playing in one for 8 years or so, what about it?

>>98536700
Even assuming that's true, that doesnt make the games women like playing any less legitimate, nor justify excluding women who might want a crunchy logistical game in spite of demographic trends.

>>98536707
>I want to have my cake and eat it too,
You'll have to be as exceptionally motivated and capable as your desire then.
Its not the 80s anymore.
There is certainly room for the community and game you want but you'll have to make it and be the main driving force rather than waiting for a suit to sell it to you.

>>98537767
>that doesnt make the games women like playing any less legitimate
wrong

>>98536707
You can have your cake and eat it, but you can't eat your cake and have it.

>>98537767
No one was saying games women like aren't legitimate or that women should be excluded. Your victim complex is illegitimate.

>>98536707
It's mainly because no one wants to spend one or two hours on logistics or resource management when they could spend that time on more valuable things. It can be brutal to wait weeks or months in game to have things smithed, especially if you decide to leave the area and get whisked away on errands.

>>98537767
>pretending to not understand
I'm so tired of this tactic.

>>98534096
>tabletop games--wargaming and role-playing games in particular--used to be exclusively male.
It did not. You have mistaken your situation for a universal one.

>do you think there is a place for male-only groups?
Incidentally all male groups? Sure why not. If you're chilling with the boys and the boys happen to all be boys? Yeah fuck it go for it.

Hell, there's "a place" for non-incidentally all male groups. Better that you all isolate yourself from others.

> not for some sexist reason, but just to give guys a space to hang out, and engage in a hobby together?
Why do you believe you're incapable of hanging out with women?

>>98538340
At that point just don't waste your time, they're either retarded or disingenuous

>>98534096
OP, why are you wording your question as if male-only groups aren't still a thing you can do? Like there's nothing stopping you and your mates from running a campaign or wargame or whatever with just you lads. Where is this question coming from, really?

>>98538423
Male only spaces are illegal here

>>98538423
TTRPGs used to be male only then it became cool to be a gaymer gurl or a nerd. Stranger things also brought in a wave of troglodytes that though everything was problematic.

>>98538410
As you can see: >>98538423
Its the only tactic they seem to have. Pretending to not understand.

>>98538423

if a man-centric thing gets popular girls try to get in then change it

>>98538477
Prove it
What year did the world have 0 female players

>>98538466
>>98538477
>>98538491
>>98538499
None of these posts address my point. Nothing is stopping you from having a men-only group...unless you're the only one in your group that wants that, that is. In which case, I'd say the problem lies in you more than anything else.

The "women" i see at ya'lls game shops are mother fucking dudes in dresses and wigs. Dont be fucking lying /tg/ lol

Maybe I am too young but I've been playing TTRPG games for 15 years and there were always women. But maybe it's because of my culture. Vidya was male dominated with the occasional hot tomboy in the Xbox 1 era. I'd say if you want a male only scene you have to make it yourself and enforce it on your circle? I do think that hardcore nerd shit is still very male dominated like train/aircraft modeling, RC stuff, drone stuff and I actually have never seen a women play Warhammer.

>>98538530
>Nothing is stopping you from having a men-only group
>>98538466
>Male only spaces are illegal here
Just break the law bro it's perfectly fine bro I won't report you for money bro

>>98538562
What the fuck do you mean 'illegal', anon? Are cops gonna barge inside your house if too many men are hanging around together? What kind of imaginary fourth world shithole do you live in?

>>98538558
where did all the vidya tomboys go?

>>98538569
They got scared off by Those Guys, as per usual

>>98538568
The kind where you can sue anyone for excluding women in things like clubhouses

>>98538572
>clubhouses

Go to someone's house, like its been done since the beginning of time? If you want to curate your table, why are you going to a hobby shop or clubhouse, anon? Even if you luck out and theres no girls, you're still gonna inevitably end up with some annoying sperg latching onto your table. This sounds like an extremely easy to solve 'problem'

>all male clubhouse

Ya'll niggas gay AF lmao
Jus come out an say ya'll wanna be sucking D

>>98538585
>>98538604

>>98538491
>Its the only tactic they seem to have. Pretending to not understand.
You're right they're just here to shitstir, ignore them

>>98538611
I understand perfectly, you're the one who's being coy and dishonest about it. Just drop the pretense, stop hiding behind 'just asking questions' whiny shittery and say what you really want to say: 'I want all girls out of my hobby and also I suck cocks'.

>>98538540
Worst of both worlds.

>>98538604
>the only possible reason for interacting with another person is sex
Sad and disgusting.

>>98534096
Because it's a male hobby.
Even now, there are more bio males in drag than women in 90%+ of wargames, and said men in drag (mtf) massively outnumber women in drag (ftm).

Have a good day malebrains and female brains :)

>>98537767
I'm the anon you were replying to, I don't want women to be excluded just for being women, I want non-nerds excluded for being non-nerds, and I am aware that applying the same standards of nerdhood to men and women will exclude a much higher proportion of women than men out of the prospective population who sees TTRPGs as "cool", and they will be angry about that and try to change it. Also, surveys show that women are much more serious about enforcing their social norms on men than men are on women, so having a near-majority of female players would effectively mean that you can't have any disturbing or mature content unless the women are the really cool kind of nerdy girl (I like those, but I've only met one IRL, and I didn't realize she might have liked me until I was 18 and she wasn't 18 yet, and then I graduated from high school and never met her again).

>>98537894
I have autism but I would accept the role of being a ghostdesigner for someone who could serve as a face, even if I was unpaid. However the main barrier isn't persuasion but that the audience for my ideal game no longer exists, and the average former member has already been convinced to play GURPS or OSR instead due to the popularity of those outweighing the specificity of his preferences. Basically, what I want is FATAL but good, and most of the core mechanics (and also many subsystems) I would include have been done in at least one game before but not combined.

It still is male only, some of them wear wigs and go by 'Lilith' now though

>>98534096
>queer pride suspenders
There's like 90% chance the neckbeard is molesting at least one of the others.

>>98538540
It's so bad bro. I live in Seattle, was trying to find a gaming club. Found one near me, nice location. It was just tranny city, screeching hons as far as the nose could smell. Disgusting, women are fine, trannies should all be dumped in mass graves.

>>98539390
Okay but troons in the pursuit of emulation push the same principles.

>>98537407
Aka places where dicks are sucked and cigar cutters fucked

>um I just want to hang out with men all day
Do something masculine then. Pick a sport. Ride motorcycles. Go hunting.
>b-but I don't wa-
Then you've made your bed faglord

Anecdotally, women have consistently been my favorite players. Personally, I prefer roleplay and worldbuilding, and although it's no secret that women lean that way, there are also plenty interested in strategy, tactics, and logistics, if that's your thing. I've had a fair few among my players over the years. Remember that "computer" used to be a pink-collar job.

If you make the game correctly it will organically be exclusively male.

>>98539684
>women
Were these women born with a penis?

>>98539741

I find mildly amusing that people assume everyone has only played with trans women.

Like... If no cis woman ever played with you, anon, don't think it's like this for everyone.

>>98539760
This mf thinks "going down" on a bitch is juggling her balls

>>98539826
Meal comes with a free toy

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>person makes general statement
>midwits flood in to point out exceptions
like clockwork

>>98540006
But we idiots and smart people know the midwits are willfully playing dumb. And they know that we know that they're playing dumb. So why do they keep doing it boss?

>>98540044
False premise

>>98534210
>Get a load of this guy who's never had a regular game night or group get imploded by a foid showing up.

>>98539826

Anon, there's nothing wrong with being obsessed with dicks, but maybe you should go all out on it IRL, not online.

>>98540259
You suck dick bruh

>>98540277

Not yours, that's for sure.

>>98539383
>the main barrier isn't persuasion but that the audience for my ideal game no longer exists
This is the same thing.
>Basically, what I want is FATAL but good
The only way you're going make any audience for that is with honest sperg enthusiasm. If James Raggi can make and publish games you can too anon. It will never be a big game, but that's okay.

>>98534096
>do you think there is a place for male-only groups? not for some sexist reason, but just to give guys a space to hang out, and engage in a hobby together?
Why would a sane man ask for anyone's permission to create and/or participate in a male - only gaming group if he so chooses? It's not verboten by the State - yet.

>>98539760
The distinction between "trans" and "cis" women is inherently transphobic. Shame on you. It's just women.

>>98540286
gay

>>98536191
That's the problem. Historicals suck. You are deliberately playing something so shitty not even you enjoy it just to make sure people around you don't either. At that point might as well not play anything.

>>98540816
What do you play that's so great then, champ?

>>98541166
Good games, like 40k and Warmachine.

>>98541387
Modern 40k is a game where two autists coping about being too retarded for chess take all of 3 turns to try and alpha strike each other with two 2k point netlists crammed on a symmetrical terrain board with smaller than my coffee table, so no wonder you hate historicals.

>>98541166
Whatever I want.
Last year I ran a literal meatgrinder (I homebrewed a kitbashed version of Nechronica) based in a Silent Hill-like hellscape of the characters' repressed shame.
A while ago I played Mekton Zeta because I heard the mechs were cool. They were, but the system was a little too gribbly for my tastes.
I also tried out Masks with my sister in law and her woke college friends, and it was surprisingly not terrible for a PbtA fandom quest. Growing up watching Teen Titans probably helped me get down with that bullshit.
And currently I'm playing some vanilla-ass wack-ass dungeons & dogshit 5e with some normalfags because why not

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>>98541455
NTA.
I haven't played 40k since 5th edition. That sounds absolutely miserable.

>>98540286
t. Bubonic butt blastet

>>98539826
I don't know why normies are so obsessed with cock and balls when 95% of trannies don't even want them touched

>>98542746
You would know that

Faggot

>>98534096
What are you talking about chud? My favorite classic adventure was written by some chick named Janelle. I bet she's hot with a name like that.

>>98534096
That looks gay and boring as hell

>>98542746
>I don't know why people keep bringing up genitals when talking about sex
Then you are retarded.

I don't play normshit wargames so it doesn't come up often, I couldn't give a shit
I am playing a 5e campaign while I'm living in the city with some friends, there's me, the GM, one other bloke, and three women. Guess who the murderhobo rogue is

>>98534419
>erm exceptions prove the rule

Literally a 0 IQ syllogism that is meaningless when applied to most contexts

>>98534096
Brother, you choose the people you are in a group with

>>98534096
>used to be exclusively male.
Never was.
Majority was male yes, but its never been exclusive male.

>do you think there is a place for male-only groups?
public open groups? no
But if you really want one, just make your own private/closed group then and don't invite women. And if any women show up you just do what you usually do to scare them away, by being yourself.

>not for some sexist reason
sure

Stay mad that you've been replaced.

>>98534096
>wargaming
still is and always was a male only space, you would know if you weren't a nogames