Do you want to never be able to have dinner in peace again? To forever suspect that every meal is poisoned and every guest intends to kill you? To never be able to make peace because every parlay is assumed to be a trick?

>>98535365
first of all, /tv/
second of all, treachery is literally the worst sin
as is breaking hospitality

Not this fucking thread again

You know, Sun Tzu made the same fucking argument 2500 years ago.

Well, about spies. Still pretty disonhorable.

>>98535384
for some reason everyone starts believing in a nuance-less interpretation of utilitarianism once they hit their teens and start glazing anyone who says any version of "kill 1 save a hundred" even if it involves kicking puppies

>>98535365
Cos in a battle your making your intentions clear and stabbing them in the front. At dinner your being deceitful and stabbing them in the bsck. The former is usually more noble.

>>98535365
It's just stupid and shortsighrted unless you are sure to win at everything else. You just painted a target sign on yourself and proved to everyone you can't be trusted even when you actually do want to negotiate or w/e.

>>98535365
It's the golden rule. Any noble who call for civility and peace only to revoke it at a moment's notice, such as slaying a man at the dinner table after calling for him to disarm himself as a sign of peace, is a noble who has made it clear he does not want nor deserve civility or peace granted to him in turn even if he begs for it. Simple as that.

>>98535459
>well you see, my hyper death ray that vaporizes unarmed civilians is actually a mercy because it ends wars with only 10,000 civilian deaths instead of 100,00 soldiers
>thats perfectly civil right?
this is what every argument about this stupid TV show sounds like
and it has nothing to do with /tg/, at the risk of sounding like that guy

>>98535384
He also made it clear that spies should be paid super well given what they're risking and that spies should be deployed with foresight and great subtlety. And the open slaying of a family around the dinner table that becomes known to the entire kingdom and immediately connected right back to you is anything but subtle.

>>98535365
Because you eat dinner every day, and want to do so without having to be on constant guard against assassins.

Segregating combative activities from normal life so that you can live comfortably among others is basically the whole purpose of civilization.

File: comic_lotr137 (1).jpg (163 KB, 600x847)

163 KB JPG

>>98535478
Anon, I'm just answering OP. I don't give a fuck about whether or not you think it's right. Like if you want me to drop the flowery language, neither is inherently more "noble". It's just really poor decision making to make it clear to all your enemies that if they attempt to parley with you then you'll just murder them, hence they'll be prepared to do the same to you in turn if you ever end up screwed and begging for mercy. That's it. If you're fine with that, then good for you, but most people who are the type to stab a man having dinner with him aren't the kind who expect to have that kind of turnabout. Hell, DM of the Rings makes that point specifically as a joke.

>>98535365
Perfidy is bad because it stains your reputation as someone that is willing to win at any cost, even if that means stabbing someone in the back.

The first and most immediate consequence is that you can no longer be trusted. You're basically a rabid dog deserves to be put down.

>>98535509
I am just really exasperated that this bait gets posted constantly, and worse people take it at face value

File: GNHLSLpXYAAqgqV.jpg (12 KB, 536x324)

12 KB JPG

>>98535365
imho I would put a slow acting poison in their food, like the several hours type. If they agree to cooperate, I serve them wine with the antidote. If they don't? Tummy cramps and farting for like a day or two.

>>98535538
NTA
It's an interesting question in regards to Tywin because, despite being portrayed as this machiavellian patriarch, but in the books he's insecure about everything relating to his family.

>>98535374
European history had a pretty big importance put on guest rights and etiquette since ancient days and the violating of it was a pretty big deal even to backwoods peasants.
You want to get into "murder is on the table at all times" territory? Go to Asia. Japan and China were pretty notorious for backstabbing bullshit. Hell, all it took to conquer Japan into one unified nation was to have just two people in positions of power never betray each other and always stop whatever they were doing and go bail the other guy out if they were in a tight spot.

>>98535538
Honestly, I'm mainly just bored. I immediately knew it was an ASOFAI reference, and I knew it was a reference to Tywin Lannister trying to act like his decision was coldblooded and pragmatic when it was more a sign of his paranoia and insecurity that he would openly break sacred hospitality rules in a way that the entire realm became aware of just to wipe out a rival. Plus, it gave me an excuse to post that DM of the Rings comic anyways, so I'm not terribly fussed. I didn't quite expect anyone to act so affronted to my comment, but there we are.

>>98535365
Because now everyone who wasn't adamantly against you before is looking for ways to put you out of their misery.

He was already dying from a bowl dissolving poison when his own son shot him through the gut on the privy, as an example.

File: kombucha-girl.gif (2.46 MB, 624x640)

2.46 MB GIF

>>98535557
Cooperation and trust lead to a stable society? Surely this can't be the case.

>>98535365
Depends on who is having dinner. If it's the types of rich fucks who make excuses for why it's justified to get 10,000 people killed in a war for their personal benefit then yeah, it's not about being noble. It's about being against the nobles.

>>98535365
Nobility is a social construct.

>>98535605
did you think calling someone sir or madame created a material change in their bodies?
how could it be anything other than a social construct, unless you believed that the moment you knighted someone they literally turned into another person at the point that the sword touched their shoulder

File: Screen-Shot-2015-04-09-at(...).png (195 KB, 600x338)

195 KB PNG

>>98535365

>*Shoots you while you're on the toilet poopin'.*
Lol, lmao, nothing person-el, old man.

>>98535365
Because it wasn't just a dozen at dinner.

It was also the Stark's entire army who were partying outside and killed by the Freys when they pulled the party tents down and shot all the confused, unarmoured and drunk soldiers.

Twyin does not have a moral argument because he is also a liar

>>98535365
Breach of trust. A guy stepping onto a battlefield expects that he might die there, a guest at a banquet only expects some food and drink.

>>98535570
Well, to be fair, it also took a lot of murder. Like an abscene amount of murder.
Oda and Tokugawa had the benefit of knowing with absolute certainty that the other guy was not only NOT going to stab them in the back but was also going to support them no matter what.
Literally 100% of the rest of Japan's major players might or might not support someone they swore they would and odds are exceptionally high your "ally" would send a token group of soldiers to help you in a battle while their main force was actually conquering your land because they knew you were going to be out fighting a battle that you asked for help with.

The whole "murder your guests" thing was so common place, a method for fighting in formal settings was developed. It's where that whole 'art of the draw' bullshit stemmed from. It wasn't for flashy anime style nonsense but was developed because mother fuckers just kept ambushing people during peace meetings, dinners, and other stuff where fighting was not supposed to happen but did anyways.

These guys were so used to assassinations and shit, most important homes and buildings intentionally had squeaky floors and rattling doors just to keep cutthroats from being able to sneak up on you. Ancient Asian cultures were so rightfully paranoid, backstab heavy, and murder prone, it made even the most unhinged of European warlords seem like standup heroes and that is saying a lot.

>>98535365
Maybe you should watch Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey which covers this question in detail as to why you must respect guest rights and establishes that failure to respect them caused the Bronze Age collapse.

>>98535868
common courtesy does not extend on self-invited guests

>>98535875
In point of fact, Catelyn and Robb Stark were invited to Walder Frey's domain for a wedding and Catelyn made sure that they received bread and salt, thereby formally granting them guest rights.

>>98535910
Sure.
I was referring to self-invited "suitors" in Odyssey, who got treated like an invaders they are.

>>98535557
Japan and China were in fact extremely anal about guest rights and etiquette, it's just that this ensured all the BACKstabbing was done in a deniable manner and they were merciless outside of the hospitality context. You and your guest leave the swords at the door and take utmost precautions not to cause offense as you have a pleasant dinner and discuss marriage alliances, and 2 months later you display his rotting head and crucified corpse in public and put to death his entire clan, there was no contradiction in this.

>>98535561
To be fair to Tywin, the actual host was his (grandson's) vassal Walder Frey, a very old man practically on his deathbed, and Tywin himself likely didn't expect to live/rule for much longer either. Sacrificing your reputation for a quick end to a bloody civil war and leaving a united realm for your descendants is a defensible trade (things didn't work out quite as expected of course.)

For me it's people who think "war crimes" are just advanced strategies everyone else is too dumb or cowardly to use but also get pissed if the enemies start mass poisoning water sources.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

im sure it was an excellent idea to assassinate the ayatollah of iran and do virtually nothing to the chain of command except put his son, whose father, along with his civilian wife and sister you have just assassinated, in charge. although the US didnt have troops intermingled with the entire iranian army getting drunk in a camp before killing them for plot purposes like from some goofy tv series which gets more and more nonsensical the further it deviates from the books, so maybe it wasnt the best idea in the world.

>>98535365
Because it's not about the number of deaths, it's about not escalating underhanded behavior and giving the enemy a chance to fight back.

>>98536091
It's the player-character mindset, the idea that everyone else is just an NPC who mindlessly adheres to the rules and that as a player-character, they are one of the only people in the world who is allowed to deviate from the status quo, that they're the only one who is able to bend the rules of the system and twist the game in their favour.

Then they shit themselves when someone does the same thing.

>>98535540
What can mere men do against such wickedness?

There must be some fucking bot that reposts old shit threads from the archive.

File: bart.png (119 KB, 268x364)

119 KB PNG

>>98536327
I think the greatest tool in strongarming rival factions isn't the threat of death, it's the threat of discomfort.

>>98535365
>war is over
>all the other members of high society now have to always ask themselves wheter they might be next
No one cares about 10,000 stinking commoners. Reputation among the elite is far more valuable

>>98535700
>It was also the Stark's entire army who were partying outside
Yes, op is misrepresenting the dilemma. It's not about saving enemy lives, but your own soldiers.
This strategy is great if you don't value your own reputation. Even if you destroyed your enemy with minimal losses, everyone else will just see you as the man who broke the rules of hospitality to murder in cold blood. Most people would also now think it's fair to do the same to you.
>>98535397
>kids have a cynical phase
Because they've been raised to have virtues, so cynicism becomes a part of the rebellion of their youth before they (mostly) return to virtue as they mature. It's mostly a male thing I think.

>>98535875
It absolutely does, but the received guest has a mutual obligation.

>>98535365
It isn't. Nobility start wars and so nobility should die. It not only is more noble to kill a dozen blue bloods at dinner to spare 10,000 real people but it's actually act of sainthood that should be celebrated as a holiday.

>>98536604
>it's actually act of sainthood that should be celebrated as a holiday.
If he'd won in the end, it would have been.

>>98536091
War crimes laws were written by the same guys who just got done fighting World War II. They don't actually restrain you from doing war-winning things that are evil, just things that are evil but don't help win wars. Like false surrender, double-tapping drowning sailors, or disguising yourself as civilians.

The men on a battlefield at least have a fighting chance. The people you poison just die without hope.

>>98536945
>The men on a battlefield at least have a fighting chanc
Naive idea of war

>>98536943
>They don't actually restrain you from doing war-winning things that are evil, just things that are evil but don't help win wars.
Doesn't it also restrain use of biochemical weapons? Which is something that can provably help you win (as long as wind doesn't change direction).

File: Dukat2.jpg (38 KB, 600x338)

38 KB JPG

>>98535365
Because true victory is to crush your enemies resolve, to force them to acknowledge your greatness and make them realize they were wrong to oppose you in the first place. Killing them at dinner only strengthens their resolve and spurs future resistance.

>>98536951
If we're talking about medieval style warfare most of it would be cavalry skirmishing and raiding towns and villages. Not large pitched battles. The soldier would be relatively safe in most cases.

>>98536958
Probably the best written villain in all of genre fiction.

>>98536968
Yeah sure lol

File: Gul_Dukat_Takes_Miam.jpg (327 KB, 607x800)

327 KB JPG

>>98536970
Villain? Gul Dukat is the true savior of the Alpha Quadrant and a hero to Cardassians everywhere!

>>98535540
>>98536327
>>98536377
>You are defeated Ser Dingus. Kneel.
>Alright, what happens now?
>Remain kneeling.
>My knees are getting sore.
>That's the very purpose!
>Game of thrones theme.mp3

>>98536976
It depends on whether we're talking pre or post widespread adoption of the crossbow.

>>98536954
Biochemical weaponry ruins the soil for hundreds or even thousands of years. The ramifications last longer than your empire does and hurts potential allies as eternal blood feuds get rarer and rarer.

>>98536994
No it doesn't

>>98536996
That's true for things like arsenic or cadmium, but Chlorine gas is plenty deadly on release then gradually settles into harmless Sodium Chloride. It's really case by case.

>>98536519
>It's mostly a male thing I think.
yeah, it's weird how it's impossible to teach virtue to females

>>98536954
>Doesn't it also restrain use of biochemical weapons? Which is something that can provably help you win (as long as wind doesn't change direction).
Biological and chemical weapons are niche at best, particurally when soldiers have CBRN gear. Unironically explosives are just better 99% of the time.

>>98536604
>It isn't. Nobility start wars and so nobility should die. It not only is more noble to kill a dozen blue bloods at dinner to spare 10,000 real people but it's actually act of sainthood that should be celebrated as a holiday.
He also killed thousands of soldiers at the same time.

>>98536954
Chemical weapons just aren't very useful. The issue is that in order to use them in any real war situation, you need to wear an NBC suit. But by extension, your enemy can completely counter them by just buying NBC suits for their own guys.

Biological weapons are technically useful, but basically they're WMDs that have a high probability of killing you instead. Or the whole population of planet Earth in the worst case scenario.

>>98536005
The problem is that everyone knows the Lannisters did it. Tywin's actions taint his kin as do Walder's. He passes the instability down with his titles. And we see this in the way everyone turns on or steps aside from both of these houses who isn't similarly tainted. It's very likely that by the end of this story, Lannister, Frey, and Bolton will be annihilated in their male lineage, and this is not a particularly strange result.

Perfidy has a price.

>>98537065
Tbh the only country you could probably use bioweapons against safely would be like...North Korea. Deploy a virus everyone else vaccinated against but they only pretend to. Actually would be a good way to cleanse their deployed mercenaries in Europe.

>>98537186
Smallpox should work against pretty much anyone because nobody vaccinates against it anymore.
So would Plague, sure treatable by antibiotics, but deploying in region where medical supply currently struggles would cause serious casualties before re-supply can be secured.

>>98535365
>Just kill the enemy general under a flag of surrender bro
>This surely won't lead to nobody ever trusting a flag of surrender again

Tywin knew as well as anyone that what he was about to do was insane and going to blacken the name of an entire house, its why he did his best to give the Lannisters plausible deniability while blaming it all on the Freys, the most hated family in Westeros.
He did it anyway, because he thought his family would be above the consequences and that the Lannisters would be so powerful that it didnt matter what heinous shit they 'may' have pulled.

>>98535423
Tywin's genius was getting Walder Frey to do it so he could eliminate Robb while keeping his hands clean.

Why bother negotiating with money or goods or land? If you have a disagreement on anything just roll in the tanks and start killing people until they agree to the terms you tell them to accept.

>>98537424
Attrition

>>98537186
>Tbh the only country you could probably use bioweapons against safely would be the "let's escape to China" country
Excellent thinking general.

>>98535365
Because without basic expectations and rules, you will never have your opponent surrender, meet up for parley, marry or even do basic trade with you since you are that untrustworthy and extreme.
Every fight will be to the end because you can't be trusted. It is a variant of "Getting late is a reason for execution. Rebelling against the Emperor is also a reason for execution. We are already late, might as well rebel too"

>>98535365
The guy in the picture had no one mourn him, had his whole family was reduced to nothing except for the cripple he despised and died in the toilet.
That's the reason.

>>98535868
>Maybe you should watch Christopher Nolan's The Odyssey
Before anyone takes this awful advice, don't. Just read the original poem like someone with a functioning brain, unlike this pop culture-fellating autist

>>98535943
I read somewhere that nips used to arrange important meetings in bathhouses since it's easier to engage in conversation when all pretext is dropped and no hidden weapons could be brought. at least the last part suggests a time where killing at the table was somewhat common enough for a countermeasure to be established

>>98535570
Redditor reaction gif

>>98535868
>unironically shilling the most botched interpretation of an ancient classic
I wish your parents the strength they need to care for such a gigantic retard like yourself

>>98537522
Still salty that it turned out one of the greatest filmmakers of the modern era put out a good film despite you guys crying that it isn't a carbon copy of the original poem which you didn't read anyway?

>>98537549
I've mostly heard it's mid from apolitical people who like slop movies

>>98537594
Oh, for sure, my man.

>>98537549
the cast is abhorrent, the writing is laughable, it's pretentious, disingenuous and most egregiously it tries to insert a lot of modern day themes and talking points into a story that DOES NOT WORK when seen through a modernist lense

calling this dung heap of an adaptation by the same name as one of humanities oldest and most beautiful epics is like calling live action DBZ a good adaptation

>>98537549
Not interested in your culture war bullshit faggot, read Homer if you want to actually get a glimpse into the culture and customs of the Bronze Age.

>>98535868
>people being mean caused the famine that destroyed sedentary agrarian city-states and caused them to revert back to nomadic lifestyles
okay

>>98537608
Yes? The editing is apparently pretty rough too.

>>98535365
A sword may win a war, my lord, but treachery makes peace impossible.

File: motivation.jpg (40 KB, 600x600)

40 KB JPG

>>98537638
sword may winrar but treasury makes pieces possible

>>98537611
Nta but it may not have been homer or even the odyssey historical poem but I remember a quote of women “beat their breasts” and all I could imagine was ladies doing the gorilla chest beating.
I thought it was funny. If I remember to I’ll try and find it. Hopefully. But don’t count on it.
The site might be dead now.

I think the odyssey is poorly received for the same reason that cleopatra historical documentary got poorly received. The odyssey just did more mistakes. Maybe I’m autistic in a bad way but I always preferred animation from anime to 3d (why is it still mostly for kids) to stop motion to western cartoons so they never appealed to me.

Game of Thrones would have been appealing to me if it was animated.
But I just liked the tits. I thought the ending fiasco was funny to watch from a distance.
Game of thrones was probably getting used for analogies like Harry Potter analogies where x is Voldemort.
Makes me wonder if dune will get that treatment or even warhammer 40k.

>>98535365
1. the 10.000 men are there to battle, they consent to dying
2. the dozen are there to dine, they don't consent to death
3. you break the entire institution of diplomacy, causing uncertainty that will, over the course of the entire future of the world to come, cause more unnecessary death due to the lack of communications and trust in communication, than the 10,000 deaths in battle

>>98535868
I can't tell if this is a genuine opinion or a falseflag trying to make odyssey fans look stupid.

>>98535365
Explain to me how this matters in a game revolving around fighting monsters in dungeons.

>>98536344
Welcome to /tg/. First day?

The main theme of Romance of the Three Kingdoms is "deception scores early victories but fucks everyone over in the end" the usurper is dead, the Han imperial clan is dead, Cao Cao's new state dies within two generations and the Sima clan can only build a pale imitation that breaks down into anarchy. You want a different example? Try the Henriad from Richard II to Richard III, and the meta narrative is about the collapse of stable rule and ramps up into the War of the Roses because people resort to back stabbing and general violence instead of negotiation

>>98535365
Effort
I could kill a dozen at dinner with poison. I can't see myself killing 10000 men unless I had some big dick stuff like nukes or bioweapons

>>98535868
I just remember Circe inviting a bunch of guys to get pigged and then she suffers zero consequences outside of getting dicked so hard by Odysseus that she gets a non-canon sequel about her pining for more Odyssecock
I've watched Epic the Musical and played Fate Grand Order so jury's out on how accurate this interpretation is

>>98535557
>You want to get into "murder is on the table at all times" territory? Go to Asia. Japan and China were pretty notorious for backstabbing bullshit
Wrong

>>98538755
Refute him then. Don’t do this female bullshit of “um ackshually wrong.”

Late Han, at the very least, was nothing but literally castrated pieces of shit scheming with women, assassinating literal children emperors, before it all fell apart into chaos.

In Japan they had literal clans devoted to different schools/styles of assassination. Closer to the west you had the creepy fucks who literally gave name to the term “assassin.”

>>98538793
>before it all fell apart into chaos
That carries a lot of weight, anon. It didn't work.
>Japan
You mean when the nation wasn't under united leadership and the nobility was a literal indoctrinated death cult?

>>98535605
And we are discussing the details of that construction. Now piss off back to Tumblr.

>>98536943
>War crimes laws were written by the same guys who just got done fighting World War II.
The first Geneva Convention was signed in 1864, the concept of a war crime is older than most people realise.

>>98535365
Because it shows not just your enemies but all your friends or even those who were completely indifferent to you that your word ultimately doesn’t mean shit and you will literally murder those who’ve chosen to trust you, begging the question of why they shouldn’t also be open to treating you the same

>>98535365
It would've been more noble to prevent the rebellion from happening at all, but that would require muzzling that fucking retard he calls a grandson

File: Triumph_of_Achilles_in_Co(...).jpg (392 KB, 1920x859)

392 KB JPG

>>98539086
Back to Achilles treating body of Hector with disrespect which made gods cringe so hard they decided to side with his enemies and help them bypass his near perfect invincibility?

File: p043hqy6.jpg (139 KB, 1232x1232)

139 KB JPG

>>98537617
It was because the gods were offended by their degenerate actions and removed their blessing on the society, causing the slow death of mediterranean power

Sometimes you have to kill a hundred to save a thousand.

How is this such a hard concept to understand?

>>98541291
>How is this such a hard concept to understand?
because its a nuance-less approach to ethics that can easily be taken to its logical conclusion that you can kill billions as long as you save billion + 1

>>98541301
Uh. No. The greater good is the greater good.

>>98541301
So then decide, you stupid bitch. Is it better to let a hundred die to save a hundred, or to let a hundred die to save a thousand? The latter is more morally profitable.

>>98541313
if we flatten down ethics down to simply a numbers game, then we can justify any action imaginable as long as we can manipulate the ledger to be positive

>>98541317
Dear lord you’re a creature.

>>98541317
Kill a hundred adults to save a thousand fresh, newborn babies.

>>98541326
FUCK babies. I will toss a million babies into a lava pit.

>>98536954
In WW1, poison gas was first used in 1915, and yet the war dragged on for another 3 years, and the side that first resorted to chemical warfare lost. It clearly wasn’t a war winner.
>>98537030
That’s what’s known as “salting the earth”.

>>98541395
Wind must have changed direction quite a bit.

>>98541395
>I have historical hindsight so I can make wild claims
if the socialist didn't stage a coup, germany wouldn't have lost WW1. if hitler used the tabun he had stored on the normandy invasion the second world war would have ended quite differently. literally every theater were chemical warfare was used it proved outstandingly effective. but war isn't solely won on the front

>>98541313
Are we saving 100 of my countrymen or 1000 of theirs?

Ah, no answer to >>98537945, because no games.

>>98535365
I don't want to kill just a dozen of them. The other 10,000 are the ones squatting on the land we need.

>>98541707
Hitler's only shot of winning was destroying the British Army in Dunkirk. After that failed to pass, no amount of measures after would had saved Nazi Germany, not even winning Stalingrad.

>>98541707
I wanted to point out that if communists (in Russia) didn't stage a coup, Germany would have lost WW1 even faster But Tsarist army was so incompetent and undersupplied I'm not really sure it would have made that much difference.

>>98541981
>But Tsarist army was so incompetent and undersupplied I'm not really sure it would have made that much difference.
central powers had a million men in russia at the time the russians pulled out of the war
even if the tsarists were chucking custard pies and laying banana peels, thats still a million men not slowing down the british and the french

the eastern front troops arrived in 1918, about the same time the americans joined in large numbers at the front, basically cancelling out the german reinforcements
but if the coup never happened, then the americans would have arrived and reinforced the front against an even smaller force

>>98535365
>He says, as he got trounced in almost every military engagement by a 16 yo
Tywin had to be the most insecure man of the seven realms

>>98541707
>wild claims
If poison gas was a war winner, the war wouldn’t have dragged on for multiple years after it was first used, regardless of whether Germany won or lost. Don’t confuse something that can create localized tactical successes (until the other side adapts to it) with something that can achieve overall victory.

>>98542101
Dude hated laughter because he thought it meant people were making fun of him

>>98542308
They laughed constantly at his dad and he hated it.

>>98535365
Nobody will want to have dinner with you anymore, meaning nobody will want to negotiate with you anymore.

>>98542268
Poison gas has bad reputation because of high potential maximum impact in ideal weather on unprepared victims. I'm old enough to remember tail end of cold war, having to do gas mask drills as a child and seeing some wartime footage that should have reaffirmed how serious a threat it is, nasty stuff.
But soldiers in the field should never be unprepared, so practical impact on active properly equipped troops probably isn't all that harsh.

>>98539086
Even Shakespeare referenced the laws of war when the french killed the boys in the convoy.

File: loudspeaker pig.jpg (170 KB, 1254x1254)

170 KB JPG

>>98535365
Dinners are not the place where you kill people, obviously!

>>98542672
the idea of a gentlemans agreement between two sides to not make things worse than it has to be for either side is pretty ancient
the geneve convention was not created out of thin air one day, people just put together and then put down to paper a set of rules that everyone agreed were a good idea
its not like they just magically started thinking about prisoners rights after the pen touched the paper, they all had the same vague notion of it and they were all just making a standard set of rules for it

>>98541707
>if hitler used the tabun he had stored on the normandy invasion the second world war would have ended quite differently.
You're fucking mental. Even if they managed to stop the allied landings it:
Doesn't stop the air campaign, which the germans already lost.
Doesn't drive the allies out of Italy, where they were already fighting.
Doesn't remove allied naval supremacy
Doesn't remove allied technological superiorty.
And it DOESN'T STOP THE ATOM BOMB.

There was no way for hitler to win the war in '44 without casting a magic spell.

>>98543096
>There was no way for hitler to win the war in '44 without casting a magic spell.
Even then, our wizards were better and would win, every time.

>>98543005
>he's a loudsqueaker
Heh heh

File: human torch kills hitler.jpg (111 KB, 500x662)

111 KB JPG

>>98543323
Truthnuke, the Red Skull can't compete with the Human Torch, either.

>>98537594
Yeah, if you like slop, you won’t like Odyssey.

>>98543096
>There was no way for hitler to win the war in '44 without casting a magic spell.
Hitler being inconsolably angry with Himmler because he kept shirking his duties to search for the holy grail in a bid to fight the allies will never stop being funny.
I wish I had saved the document in which Hitler basically said
>this fucking chicken farmer is the minister of the interior, why the FUCK is still digging around in ancient castles looking for artifacts

>>98535365
>Yes, we had to stab an unborn baby repeatedly to death, but I swear it's to save lives!

>If I have to explain it to you, you're too stupid to understand the explanation, pal.
>Which is why I slipped horse cum into your drink at the start of the night, as a practical example of why being able to trust your host is essential for diplomacy to happen.
>You're welcum.

>>98544276
>s-ser Gregor...
>rape this man, and rape him well

>>98544350
>Too late, you fool, who do you think gathered the horsecum for me!

Israel and Palestine is a good example.

Is it better to just do nothing if a thousand of your people got raped and murdered in the worst ways imaginable?

Apparently it is. Retaliation is never the answer. Apparently. Wanting this to never happen again is not the answer. Apparently.

>>98545166
you can't really say much when the morality of the entire situation has degenerated to the point it's just demons and demons killing each other

>>98545196
One of those "demons" actually values having a functional society, lmao. The other just wants to live in a hellscape.

>>98544350
>Fails to take the lesson on board because his pride gets in the way of doing so
>Gets immediately pinned to his chair by a crossbow for his troubles
It's like poetry, it rhymes.

>>98545166
I love how trans persons support their own future murderers when they tune in to disingenuous shitters like Hasan Piker

>>98535365
because you like having dinner parties

>>98535423
>It's just stupid and shortsighrted unless you are sure to win at everything else.
Didn't stop people from trying. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyk%C3%B6ping_Banquet

>>98545315
both of them want a society for themselves and nobody else

>>98545614
Lol. Israel has offered several peace deals AND relinquished land at numerous points.

>>98545669
funny how the map always goes the other way then

File: Humoristické listy 1880 _ crop.png (212 KB, 732x670)

212 KB PNG

>>98545166
Here's newspaper clipping from 1880, text roughly translates as: "To restore balance in (middle) East, both of them would need to be hanged in whole another style."
Still applicable today.

>>98545669
Which is empty and fundamentally pointless gesture.

>>98535509
Chivalry is just the medieval equivalent of the Geneva/Hague Conventions. You don't HAVE to follow it, but be prepared to pay the price. The Japanese Empire famously performed perfidy as a regular battle tactic, and later on, no one accepted their surrenders, even if they were genuine. That's why you don't commit perfidy, because it will always bite you in the end.

>>98541864
Nah, even that wouldn't have saved him, realistically. There was no way the Germans could have crushed the Dunkirk pocket because their horse drawn logistics carts were too far behind the fighting force.

>>98545315
I know that jews are a unsanitary lot and that settlements are a bit grim, but I wouldn't go so far as to describe them as hellscapes.

>>98545508
Birger Magnusson was deposed within a year.
Because like in the case of Christian II and Erik XIV the nobility generally don't like it when you murder members of their class after luring them to you under false pretexts.

>>98545669
>takes territory without consent of local population
>cedes territory they stole before
>fabricates a reason to take the land back with some more for good measure
I hate the mudslimes as much as the next guy but israel is an illegitimate country on stolen land

>>98547196
They purchased it fair and square bub

File: Designer (12).jpg (158 KB, 1024x1024)

158 KB JPG

>>98535365
Nobility is the word, but not in terms of personal quality. The nobility being able to trust one another was a massive issue in western history, because they all knew they needed to play the game. You have to realize that most of these guys didn't give a shit about their men beyond the power that a levy afforded them. What they DID care about, however, was being able to assume that people on THEIR level (i.e. other nobles) were willing to play by the rules. If you betray a noble by killing them at dinner, then any rivals now have something to point to as a way to unite others who may have been on the fence about you. "Look at this guy, he murdered Duke Straga and his men at dinner. If he wins, and you all become his vassals, he will do the same to you even if he says you're safe. However, if you support me in deposing him, you avoid that risk." As other anons have pointed out, it eradicates any trust that your current and future allies have in your ability to keep to your agreements, meaning that any alliances with you are temporary truces at best.

It's in the same vein as the chivalric code. Chivalry wasn't about being nice to peasants, it was about codifying a set of ethics which meant nobles could keep waging war and brawling for power whilst minimising the actual risk of death. It's why hostage taking was preferable to execution, except in the case of a pretender to your throne - if you capture a noble and ransom him off, not only do you get paid, but the entire noble system gets to keep on rolling despite a clear winner and loser. Trading your military numbers for a complete obliteration of the system that is supposed to keep you and your peers safe makes it easy to seize power, but really fucking hard to keep it longterm, unless you're such an unstoppable demon that everyone is too afraid to even touch you. Even then, they'll probably just poison you in your sleep eventually.

>>98547265
In addition, we have to remember that noble lineages hold onto grudges for a really long time. If you fail to eradicate an entire bloodline, especially if they're a foreign power whose country can incubate a new line, then you're creating generational enemies who'll use that tale of you betraying their forefathers as a great justification to rally their allies against you. Being able to bring everyone in your territory on board with military action was a huge issue in the middle ages, especially if there had been a famine or disaster that meant some were struggling more than others. "You want me to cross the ocean to bring some random Bohemian king to heel?" is a much less convincing argument than "You want me to cross the ocean to crush a traitor who murdered one of us in a cowardly way?"

Even if nobody's that pissed off about it, betraying a guest in the past makes for a great casus belli. We sometimes have this idea that western warlords would just make war at a whim, but they needed a good enough reason to chug the massive amount of resources needed to wage war. If you're a chivalrous noble, it reduces the chance one of your enemies will be able to generate a casus belli legitimate enough that his allies (and, quite often, people you thought were YOUR allies) are willing to give him the leeway to march into your realm and try to cut your face off.

>>98547196
Don't worry.
We will send them all back to their Holy Land, and they can kill each other for the rest of eternity, and we can laugh, and periodically drop weapons on them to perpetuate their self-made hell indefinitely

>>98547196
>israel is an illegitimate country on stolen land
so is murrica, which might be why the two get along so well

Disingenuous premise from him, we all know full well being a noble he considered the lives of common soldiers to be worth far less than lords, and if the enemy offered to end the war on the terms that he was handed over bound and gagged to be executed, he wouldn't entertain it for a second

>>98535365
What was this asshole's tax policy?

>>98548983
feudalism

>>98541707
>if the socialist didn't stage a coup, germany wouldn't have lost WW1
They would have starve instead.

>>98545669
If you offer an armistice and then immediately bomb the other guy when they accept it, your armstices are meaningless. Israel literally reached the point that Tywin did- the USA can't even end the war with Iran anymore because Iran can't trust their lackey to not break any treaty they make.

>>98544223
Frankly, giving a guy who looked like Himmler any authority and then being surprised when he does weird shit is unreasonable.

File: Clap.gif (287 KB, 480x360)

287 KB GIF

>>98544276
>You're welcum

>>98535365
Bad table manners for one

>>98547107
>Birger Magnusson was deposed within a year.
Just because something is obviously idiotic doesn't mean it doesn't happen. (In that case, it seems there was also a chunk of revenge going on, and it was a family dispute between brothers. Messy.)
Later kings could have gotten away with something like that, once the military power of the country was more centrally held. Though that also meant they had less need to do it.

>>98550050
I gave you an example of an early modern Swedish king who was deposed (within two years) after trying the same shit.

>>98535365
Because the moment you do it literally everyone alive will never trust you to keep your word and will assume you'll backstab them by default.

>>98535868
I'd rather just read the damn thing because adaptations are garbage by default.

>>98536197
My problem with the Iran nonsense is that they didn't go hard enough, either turn the entire place into molten glass or don't start shit, none of this half-assed pussy nonsense we've been seeing.

>>98541326
Those hundred adults can make thousands of babies if they remain alive while also being useful for other things, the fuck am I supposed to do with fresh newborns? Wait a couple years before they're of any use? I second the toss babies into the lava dude.

>>98547503
Every country is made up of stolen land, dipshit, there's not an inch of human land that isn't drenched in blood.

>>98550194
you can go hard without going nuclear, it just means you have to actually take territory with troops which america isnt willing to do. everyone is scared shitless of the n word and the us isnt willing to use nuclear weapons even if they used tactical ones with the same practical effect as just a load of moab sorties, even against a state with no nuclear capability.

File: 1769987641530895.png (3.14 MB, 1560x1490)

3.14 MB PNG

>>98535365
Because "nobility", "honor", and other such concepts are created by the ruling class as laws for their attack dogs and other shabbos goy to follow.

Since the king does not want to be killed at dinner, he instills it in his minions that kings ought not be killed at dinner.

>>98550251
True Story I went to this one spot of land that no human has ever been to before in Antartica while stationed there & masturbated in the open just for shits & giggles, so there IS one spot that no one bleed for but inside jerk off on so good luck with that one faggot

>>98550340
being able to go to dinner without being killed sounds like an absolute benefit to everyone

Upsetting a few — making them butthurt — asshurt even — instead of causing tens of thousands of senseless deaths ?

Sign me up.

>>98550340
Max Stirner?
Just a Spook.

>>98535365
Define "noble".
Because one definition, is based on blood, and the other on conduct.

The semiotic link is that "Nobility" are ideally expected to conduct themselves in an upright manner, to justify their station.

That they do not is simply the failure of the man to live up to the idea.

I put it to you; would you rather be lead by a poisoner, or a warlord?

A poisoner can only harm a man who trusts him.
A Warlord will simply kick your door in, kill your sons, rape your daughters and put your head on display over your own portcullis.

That's leadership.

>>98535557
enemies never showed up to each other's fucking dinner parties but if they did you could bet your ass they would be killing each other there

>>98535365
Even though people violated chivalric codes all the time, there's a reason why they (and laws of war in general) exist. Part of the reason why not all war is total war is because you want to be able to negotiate at the end of it. If your enemy is convinced that you're not going to stop until they are literally all dead, then they have no reason to negotiate or hold back. They may even sabotage the shit you wanted to take from them out of spite. You need to think of warfare in terms of what you actually want to get out of it and what doing so will cost you. Even great tacticians can fail to consider the strategic implications of their behavior. If you poison wells, common people will absolutely want your ass dead in a way they won't really care if you killed their local lord in an 'honorable' skirmish. People died all the time, but indiscriminately destroying the very infrastructure or culture you're trying to conquer turns the situation into "die fighting against them or die under their rule".
This is also why assassination of top political leaders isn't quite as common as you would expect. Because top political leaders don't like the precedent of being killed and will thus order thousands of their soldiers to kill thousands of other soldiers while they remain unharmed. In medieval Europe at least, you kept noblemen as captives if you could because they would pay ransom released (and betraying this would absolutely guarantee your captives were slaughtered to a man). No quarter was the kind of order that only royalty could get away with, because they specifically held life and death authority over other nobility.

>>98536945
desu the majority of wartime fatalities over the course of human history were due to dysentery.
That's pretty fucking hopeless.

>>98550340
It's kind of a benefit for everyone involved.

Like yeah, the whole concept of Chivalry is a fucking spook, but you generally want to instill SOME moral code in your warrior class or you just end up with murderhobos. Everyone suffers when the warrior class is just murderhobos.

Spooks exist because they benefit someone. Sometimes that someone is the broad majority until the next societal reform.

>>98535365
Killing thousands of men on a battlefield is nobler an affair because all men coming to that field understand they put their lives on the line for their lords and houses
No man expects to be murdered vindictively during a banquet by their host while celebrating a wedding.

There lies your nobility, Lannister, it comes down to context and circumstance.
The funniest thing is you died on the shitter at the hands of your hated son with a crossbow.
You got caught with your pants down taking a shit and you got exactly everything you deserved.

Why is this such a hot topic

>>98552345
I really don’t know

>>98552345
people watched the show and thought the obvious bad guy who is making justifications even he doesnt believe was right

>>98537544
have you had kombucha tho?

File: russell-crowe-in-body-of-lies.jpg (235 KB, 1600x900)

235 KB JPG

>>98535365
It could be Zeus in disguise.

Ok

>>98535478
That was exact the moral dilemma of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

File: Alicorn.jpg (435 KB, 1920x1080)

435 KB JPG

>>98552345
Because its an interesting question on morality in a setting where the whole good vs evil is clouded by shades of grey. Is it truly a despicable act for example to kill thousands of innocent civilians in an instant if in the long run it saved over ten million people dying from a prolonged war?

Gay ass thread

>>98556461
>Because its an interesting question on morality in a setting where the whole good vs evil is clouded by shades of grey.
even in the context of the show it comes from. its an obviously evil guy giving a transparently obvious lie that no one believes
there is no shades of grey, its just a jackass giving a thinly veiled excuse for an action neither he nor anyone else actually justifies as necessary

>>98556859
but what if evil is actually... le good??

They live in a time/world where the sacred right of hospitality is the only reason anyone can safely travel farther than the next village over without a substantial military band and the cost of feeding, arming and paying for it.
It is actively destabilizing to everyone's way of life and morality, noble's and peasants both, to spit on it.

>>98552345
Because stupid people think it's moral to fight 'fair' against enemies that want to kill you.

>>98560862
You're a retard. There's a difference between fighting cleverly and being such a perifious cunt that your house will forever be associated with one of the worst betrayals in westerosi history.

There's a reason why false surrenders, wearing enemy uniforms, etc. is banned.

>>98535377
Spbp

>>98536604
He is to blame for this war.

>>98559587
It's not even that. It's "What if I broke every convention and you fought with one hand tied behind your back, you don't mind do you ol' buddy ol' chum?"
Such people believe in the will to power right up until the moment someone bigger, meaner and more sociopathic than them gets their size 12 baby-stranglers around their neck, then they immediately start hooting like a gibbon about principals they never held in anything but contempt.
Happens every time, want to prove me wrong; find an example that's otherwise.

>>98537549
Yes, the poem is better. And besides, this isn't even the best Hollywood movie about the Odyssey.

>>98537783
The books are better, even if they aren't finished.

>>98541291
Because you aren't saving anyone; you're just killing people.

>>98550251
There's actually a few places

File: 1772261800077195.png (174 KB, 460x514)

174 KB PNG

>>98560908

>>98560908
You're ignoring that literally everything he worried about eventually came true.
Tywin did nothing wrong.

>>98561179
It happened because of him. If he wasn't living in terror of it, it wouldn't have happened. Same way Cersei destroyed her life out of fear of some prophecy destroying her life

>>98535365
Are you retarded, Tywin? You are part of a hereditary warrior class, who reigns based on the consent of your followers. Breaking guest rights is an affront to the culture you belong to. It will be a permanent stain on your honor. It will give you and your dynasty a permanent debuff. You can never have peace negotiations with anyone again, because they will suspect that you pull the same shit on them, as you did with the Starks. You can't have dinner with people without either of you thinking that the other one wants to poison them. This will never go away. Everyone knows what you did.

>>98561179
>literally everything he worried about eventually came true.
>Tywin did nothing wrong.
If it came true I guess he did alot of things wrong.

>>98563564
>Lions do not concern themselves with the opinions of sheep
>A lion had opinions on the lions
>Lions were unconcerned
Hubris was his downfall, he should have said "Lions do not concern themselves with the opinions of sheep, but they take the counsel of lions very seriously and participates in active listening alongside them."

>>98552345
Cause his claim sounds appealing to a modern viewer who values practicality over feelings and "honor" without fully understanding the cultural context of just how massively he affronted everyone involved, plus we actually see that history is not on his side because he forgot the most important parts of breaking the rules; If you're going to break the rules, don't get caught. And if you do, you better make damn sure to finish the job before it bites you in the ass like it did with him and his whole family.

Basically, casual viewers feel it sounds right. Long time viewers understand why it's ultimately wrong both at the time and in the long term. And the former doesn't understand why.

>>98552345
literally only because he lost

File: 1575353369372.png (488 KB, 500x428)

488 KB PNG

>>98535365
Because you'll get killed in retaliation, dumb nigger.

>>98535365
>errm why do we have rulez, its like so dumb

If A kills B, this has not affected C or D at all. However C and D dont want to be killed. Thats why A, B, C, and D enter a pact, if any one of them kills another they will kill him in return. This stops A from killing B. If A still kills B, then how can you trust him not to kill C and D? As such C and D will kill A to avoid such a thing.

All rules in society revolve around this concept. If you act dishonourably towards someone, then i cant trust you in any shape or form and will kill you as soon as possible to defend myself. Thats why we put criminals in prison, we cant trust them around ourselves.

>>98561149
Nah.
And If you think that, you're just not digging deep enough to find the bones.

>>98561171
Yeah? How did Assad's and Saddams chemical weapons go for them?

Rules exist for a reason, and it's not because they 'hold you back'.

File: 1773713297478751.png (17 KB, 662x68)

17 KB PNG

>>98565364
What the fuck this is a game of thrones quote? I just assumed it was an ancient aesop.

>>98566631
I'm extremely confident it was there beforehand.

>>98566635
It was.

>>98566631
But Tywin was a real human being who was edited into Game of Thrones, in reality he as a 13th century French noble named Tyon le Cour. It's a 'what if' story, and Aristoteles and JFK are in it too.

>>98535365
The Gods love warriors who die valiantly in battle, so those will receive Heaven. Whereas the cowards who shrink from battle will wallow in the darkness of the underworld forever.

>>98541707
>if the socialist didn't stage a coup, germany wouldn't have lost WW1
>MUH STAB IN THE BACK
Go back to your grave, Ludendorff. You fat retard.

>>98545426
I love how the same people calling for TOTAL TRANNY DEATH immediately pivot to saying Israel is an LGBT paradise, as if they actually believed that was a good thing.

>>98545315
>One of those "demons" actually values having a functional society
Or they're willing to do literally anything to get what they want, even if that means lying to the faces of the people helping them.

>>98568052
>TOTAL TRANNY DEATH
Not even the feds do this

>>98535384
Cheating doesnt matter if you win.
It only matters if you lose because then the winners like to punish cheaters.

>>98535817
your so full of shit.

File: kermit kneel.jpg (91 KB, 1024x1024)

91 KB JPG

>>98536990
lmao absolutely devious

>>98568099
They aren't based enough to demand Total Tranny Death.

The Glowniggers are too soft.

>>98541707
Are you fucking stupid? Even if he'd stopped the Normandy invasion he was already losing on two out of three fronts. And using chemical weapons just means now the allies get to use chemical weapons on him. Dumbass.

>>98535817
This guy is right, Samurais would take baths with their swords so they would never be unarmed.

>>98535365
Best fantasy performance ever. Suck my dick Paddy Considine.

>>98570243
Germany in particular had a rather glaring vulnerability to chemical weapons on account of their heavy use of horses. They never properly made the transition to motorized logistics, so even if Germany gained some advantage on the front due to their (likely temporary) advantage in chemical weapons development, that advantage would be heavily offset by all the retaliatory chemical weapons use fucking up German horse pulled logistics far more than what Germany could do to the allies and their infinite US manufactured truck stocks.

>>98570364
Hey don’t diss Paddy. He did good. Even George said so.

>>98570642
the reason why germany never deployed their chemical weapons is because they knew that the allies had even more of it than they did
the closest the allies ever got to using chemical weapons was as a proposed counter to japanese defending caves and tunnels to the death, but the war thankfully ended before it came to that

but the point is pretty clear, it benefits both sides to respect the gentleman's agreement
the allies could win without the gas while the germans knew that they would lose more than just the war if they used it first

>>98566595
The difference is that Assad and Saddam didn't win.

>>98566595
>Saddams chemical weapons
Anon...

Most dudes on a battlefield signed up for it more or less

>>98535365
>>98535550
>>98535561
the irony is that Tywin of all people understands very well the power and long-term benefits of keeping to a code no matter what
if I was Tyrion, I would have asked Tywin whether in order to win the war, would he let a debt go unpaid

>>98578380
there was no argument tyrion could've made that would've persuaded tywin, because tywin ultimately is illogical when it comes to various weak spots. we know one is how much he hates tyrion, obviously, but another is that he refuses to remarry because he loved his wife, despite treating everyone else like pawns for marriage. even though he finds none of his children adequate he refuses to do the one thing that can make more

>>98575311
and neither will the lannisters.
>>98576251
the WMDs existed, they just weren't nooks like bush pretended they were.

>dude who made a big deal of family name and legacy tries to justify him dragging their legacy through the mud

>>98535643
That's why you never steal prostitutes from your son.

>>98576251
Have you ever heard of the Kurdish people?

>>98581889
Durchs wilde Kurdistan ... ethnic group that low key wants to establish their own country (with some degree of historical precedence) that would be overlapping pieces of Turkey, Iraq, Iran, and Syria?

File: 1637483812354.jpg (31 KB, 333x355)

31 KB JPG

>>98535365

Big number better than little number

>>98537537
That was the Yakuza. Think Japanese Mafia but you get to cut off your finger rather than being killed for incompetence.

>>98535374
This. If you've killed one guest you could kill any guest and now everyone is asking if they should take that risk. In fact, everyone is asking if killing guests is on the table since someone did it and benefitted.

So it's either kill the fucker who violated Hospitality or nobody ever has a dinner party ever again.

>>98535384
Actually, his advice was to either buy off spies or give them the Mushroom treatment.

>>98535365
>Nigger faggot incapable of knowing the difference between combatants in an open battle and betrayal of the sacred hospitality
I bet you have an-cap and/or lolbertarian affiliation.

>>98535557
To this day footing a bill for a dinner in China is seen as the utmost 'you are my buddy" move, you dumb twat. Betrayal of hospitality was seen as "ok, so we can vanquish this guy and his entire bloodline, because he's just that fucking twisted and evil"
Try learning some actual knowledge than getting your data from edgy infographics

>>98582341
Yeah, those guys.

>>98535365
lol, lmao even

Why do people doubt the existence of greater good

>>98587266
Those who claim the greater good can never point out any specific small goods they do or intend to do along the way.
It's always 'Absolute reprehensible bullshit, ???, PROFIT!'

Tywin knew that it was an extremely sheisty move, that's why he let the Freys and Boltons take most of the heat for it. Tyrion even makes a joke about it.

The important context to this argument (that most people ignore) is he's arguing with his son. Tyrion is disgusted at the idea, Tywin's not making an argument to the world, he's justifying it to the only family member both brave enough to stand up to him and smart enough to verbally fence with him.

>>98587282
Yes, however,
allow me to clarify;
The steps are very simple
>Rape
>Rape
>And Rape

>>98587282
Well, no, it's wanting to cause as least travesty as possible. The less worse outcome. Some bads are less bad than others, meaning they are the greater good.

>>98587266
>>98588936
you shouldn't pursue greater good
you should pursue lesser evil

the ones going on about maximizing positive gain for humanity are invariably the ones who end up doing heinous, clinically sociopathic shit

>>98575307
Well, they never deployed their chemical arsenal on MILITARY targets...

>>98589170
>you shouldn't pursue greater good
>you should pursue lesser evil
The lesser evil is the greater food you mathlet

>>98589329
>The lesser evil is the greater food
Food metaphor detected, opinion discarded.

>>98589337
What the fuck. That’s clearly a misspell on my part. There’s nothing food related about it.

>>98589368
Anon, I'm fucking with you, come on, it was a funny.

>>98589337
I think grrm might be posting in this very thread if he had to spontaneously mention food like that

>>98589329
they're only the same if you're being reductive
seeking lesser evil implies your priority is to avoid doing harm
it implies taking care with your means, not just setting sight on your goals
it implies that upon looking at the lesser evil option, you might still be unsatisfied and try looking for the least evil option
it's the silver rule

>>98535365
When your setting has this explicit guest right privilege, which extends across the various religions, and then you not only break it, but fucking murder them, yeah, it's less noble.

>>98535365
Kill one man and you are a murderer
Kill a hundred and you are a monster
Kill a thousand and you are a general
Kill a million and you are a conqueror
Kill them all and you are a god.

>>98560976
>start hooting like a gibbon about principals they never held in anything but contempt.
Not really; most of the time they just go out screaming in abject fear, because -having no mercy themselves- they know exactly what's coming to them.

Also, that
>invoking the laws they held in contempt
is just another tactic, in the same vein of
>hey maybe he's stupid enough to believe it, it's like a 2% chance but seeing as I'm actively dying rn might as well

>>98589502
Nope. You’re sadly stupid. You’d let more die than save. Sometimes you’re put into a position where you’re indistinguishable from being a monster for making the best decision available.

>>98535365
The parasite class dislike it when the wars they start affect them personally

>>98535365
Stab-in-the-back attacks have never been noble.
Besides, if you do it, you’d better be suspicious of everyone for the rest of your life.

>>98537945
Doesn't it make you angry that the Demon King poisons your food while you and your party are dining in his castle, and there's nothing you can do to stop it?

>>98580402
It's also overlooked that Tywin had done this before, the Sack of King's Landing, and gotten away with it due to circumstances. Dude has every single flaw his children possess and to a much worse degree.