I'm at the point where I'd rather let my character fucking DIE than be forced to sit through even one more turn of combat.I mean what's the big deal anyways? I'll just make a new one.
>>98537952What’s the matter with the combat? Is it taking forever? I’ve noticed a fairly common problem in D&D 5e groups where they tell new players “You don’t need to memorize all the rules to start playing the game!” which gradually becomes “You don’t need to read all the rules to start playing the game,” and “You don’t need to read all the rules to play,” which results in players knowing hardly any of the rules, so they take forever on their turn as they must look rules up and decide on their action, which leads to a spiral as other easily-distracted players naturally stop paying attention and zone out during these glacial turn lengths meaning they have to take long turns themselves.
>>98538027I've never felt any kind of fulfillment from beating the obligatory fight of the session/adventure.
>>98538067So you're a coward with no honor, got it.
>>98537952> I'd rather let my character fucking DIE than be forced to sit down and gameSo…don’t?
>>98537952Find a new hobby then.
>>98537952>I mean what's the big deal anyways? I'll just make a new one.And what happens the next combat?
>>98538107Robert the Third.
>>98537952Have you triednot playing DnDogshit?
>>98538136I have, actually. It's the same fucking shit everywhere. Every GM somehow feels obligated to shove in at least 1 unavoidable battle to the death every now and then that no one at the table actually gives a shit about but everybody still has no choice but to go through the motions lest their character die.
>>98538158I have a feeling you’re not being entirely truthful, anon
>>98538158Name them. What games have you tried?
>>98538158So basically you haven't actually played anything else.
>>98538158Pans out from my experience.
>>98538167And the OP is about lies and deception, hmmm...
>>98538136Honestly I find it hard to believe any game can make combat not tedious.
>>98540764Most of them manage to make it even more tedious than D&D. Take Shadowrun for example.
>>98540776Or any of the World of Darkness games.
>>98540776>>98540764None of you have played any games besides D&D and it shows.
>>98540764>>98540776>>98543053Nine times outta ten, a combat isn't slow because of the rules, it's slow because the players don't know any rules.
>>98543325No, in cases like Shadowrun it's going to be slow no matter what.Plus it doesn't seem to be what OP is complaining about regardless.
>>98537952From this post, I have gleaned:A). You assume you get to make another character, especially when you just let them die every time you face physical adversity.B). Despite not liking the combat part of the game, you also don't particularly like the roleplay or story-aspects, as you are entirely willing to sacrifice any build up those aspects have to avoid having to guide a character through combat.C). Since long-term content doesn't interest you enough to at least sit tight through combat, you must, by necessity, search for enjoyment in most TTRPGs through short-term antics.Conclusion: You are a lolrandom player who gets their characters into dangerous situations where they get beaten to death, then gets pissy that the GM didn't bend the game in on itself to bail your character out of the fire.
>>98546534>You assume you get to make another characterAnd he assumes correctly. That is how games work.
>>98546543The game works through participation. If you're not engaging with a significant part of the game then why would the GM keep inviting you back?
>>98546568You can't die in combat without participating in it.
>>98546543Given that OP sounds like he barely wants to even be there, why should anyone expect making a new character won’t lead to him suiciding that one out of petulance as well?
>>98546654>the GM throws a fit when a PC dies in his gameWell that's new. Usually it's the other way around.
>>98546686..I’m pretty sure that I stated the opposite is occurring, that the kind of player to who throws their character into something they expect to kill them because “they can just make a new one” is the one throwing a fit. Are you okay, anon? Are you just on autopilot here?
>>98546704So a player dying in one of your games is so unlikely that you immediately suspect foul play whenever it happens? What the fuck are you even doing man? Just don't run the combat at that point.In fact it sounds like exactly what's being described here >>98538158 and you're just making people go through the motions out of some weird compulsion to fulfill a combat quota.
>>98546716Huh? Dude, I’m not OP’s GM. You really are on autopilot with this shit, I see.Like honestly, half the reason I’m assuming that Op is a little bitch is because he went to 4chan to complain about his issues instead of talking to his GM first. Because “too many combat encounters” is a very valid reason to leave the table or pipe up to the DM that something is wrong. Only a little baby weenie considers something as petty and time wasting as intentionally suicide their character in the vain hope it somehow provokes a reaction from their GM. The only one it “punishes” is the player who has to make a new character.
>>98546726>The only one it “punishes” is the player who has to make a new character.blud never thought of just changing the name
>>98547706you also lose gear and levels
>>98547706The new character doesn’t inherit their old characters’s experience, gold or gear. That’s the cost of losing a character in an rpg. All the resources that they accumulated are lost.
>>98547728>>98547737doesn't happenalso doesn't matter even if it did, who cares about filler fights and the filler dog shit +1 swords you need to beat them
>>98537952R-Ryō Fū Setsujin?!
>>98547761It does. It’s the downside to losing characters. And how do you know what’s a “filler fight” and what isn’t? Isn’t that just your spineless bitch baby impression, given that you’re too scared to tell the GM you want less combat to his face and are trolling 4chan to feel better about yourself for being a coward?
>>98547786it doesn'tplay some games for once in your life
>>98547789>doesn’t refute>just double downs like a bitchGotcha, nogames
>>98547792we don't sign our posts here
>>98547795Trying to pretend you’re an oldfag despite being a nogames won’t earn you reddit gold, OP
>>98547786>And how do you know what’s a “filler fight” and what isn’t?You're not slick bud. People can always tell. They're just too polite to say it to your face because you're prone to sperging out.
>>98547846No, seriously. Elaborate. What are the traits of a “filler fight”?
>>98540764prowlers and paragons.
>>98546568what makes you think the GM has any ability to keep me out of his house?
>>98538067Then this is not the hobby for you.
>>98548012> what makes you think the GM has any ability to keep me out of his house?>he says as he stands there, knees straining underneath the several hundred pounds of fatty tissue and greasy pimple scarred skin, straining to keep himself alive through his ragged breath attempting to force air into those hot pocket clogged lungs
>>98549429DnD isn't the only game.
>>98537952Nothing stopping you. Like all non-solo games, you can do whatever you want, but if others dont like it you cant play. Sorry, me and the guys think you are an asshole, dont come to the next game.
>>98551114I doubt you know any games that aren’t dnd
>>98551114Every TTRPG includes combat, otherwise you're just having a conversation while pretending to be someone else. So, this is not the hobby for you.
>>98537952Combat fucking sucks, yeah.I'd suggest a system that doesn't focus on that, like anything by white wolf.Combat will still eventually happen, but at least it's not obligatory in a system like that.
>>98554149>can't imagine any kind of gameplay other than killing goblins 6 times a dayDnDrone.
>>98554303Not an argument, troll. At least do like >>98554302 and suggest something that you want to pretend is superior.
>>98554317This is not your high school debate club. I'm calling you what you actually are.
>>98554326And I’m calling you what you actually are too, troll. You want to not be called a faggot, at least pretend other games than dnd exist.
>>98554302>anything by white wolf>not combat focused
>>98554149Anon, you never played anything except dnd or at best a dnd derivative. Everyone who played other games can see that. Play another game (preferably not a WoD game), and see why we smugly know.
>>98554302>I'd suggest a system that doesn't focus on that, like anything by white wolf.Going to make the first suggestion that actually doesn't focus on it: Ars Magica.
>>98549435whatever you need to tell yourself fatty. kek
>>98538158As an OStard I can't really understand this? Surely you can simply retreat/run away from these fights?
>>98557718Speed : 120 ft
>>98557777I don't know what you're trying to say. I can only assume you are trying to say your characters don't move fast enough to retreat but it's not videogame, you can use your wits to avoid or get away from a battle. Unless your GM is a retard that locks you into arenas or some shit.
>>98547766Hohoooooooo
>>98557878>average combat fan>average everything else enjoyer
>>98557875or unless the opponents are faster than you and have better movement options than you. you aren't going to think your way out of greater teleport at will or incorporeality. retard.
>>98557926Why are you not avoiding battles with said opponents then?It's not a videogame, encounters aren't set pieces you have to beat.
>>98558113>Why are you not avoiding battles with said opponents then?You're not omniscient. You don't get to decide.
>>98558113That’s not how these troll threads work, anon. You’re assuming that OP is talking about being frustrated with too much combat in a game like DNd when it’s clear that OP is an idiot that is trying to make the argument that DND should have no combat at all and that they should get the money and xp regardless, rather than switching to a different game with far less emphasis on combat to begin with.
>>98558303>unprompted schizo rambling
>>98558489>unasked for underage response
>>98558489Nta, but >>98558303 is entirely correct.This is a dnd thread, bitching about combat in dnd and how interchangeable pcs tend to be in most groups.At least stop trying to pretend the thread is anything else, and let people have stupid fun for a few hours.
>>98558182>you don't get to decide>in an RPGI think I see the problem
>>98558895You can decide to engage.You don't get to decide who knocks on your door.At least pretend to be intelligent.
>>98558604Every RPG on the market is about combat and not much else.
>>98558924Your bait is weak
>>98558977WoD breaks this by itself.
>>98559008WoD is occult capeshit. Everything in that setting is about power levels and how good something is in a fight.
Despite what everyone says the only real option for OP is not to play combat oriented OSR/DnD/WoD/Dungeon crawler type games and shift to games such as Lords of Gossamer and Shadow, Daggerheart, or Power by the Apocalypse, or other games which focus on interaction over combat. Their GM won't be able to cope, and neither will the other players, so he's fucked,.
>>98559008You've never played WoD. We can tell.
>>98559017Someone has been in the /tg/ threads too much, and hasn't played the game lol.
>>98559116Let’s be real, OP just wants to bleat about having to roll dice to begin with. Cause any sane person would have suggested a system that wasn’t DND as their first option.
>>98537952This copypasta but about fightfags instead
>I'll simply avoid the monsters with darkvision, telepathy, phasing, teleportation, at will walls, and blindsight in a game about going into places with monsters and fighting them. a game which has AN ENTIRE CLASS called FIGHTER whose ONLY CAPABILITY is to FUCKING FIGHT THINGS AND NOTHING ELSE
>>98556916Nigger, I play more games than you, I never said TTRPGs are just about combat, or that it's even the primary focus, I said they all HAVE it.
>>98562905And then they act shocked and angry when they don’t get any xp or gold for consistently dodging fights and avoiding dungeons, and then blame the GM
>>98557878too bad that "average villainy fan" shat all over him, calling him small time for actually caring about schemes going flawlessly
>>98537952>I'd rather let my character fucking DIE than be forced to sit through even one more turn of combat.Well...draw aggro?
This has been my experience of D&D going back as far as 3e in the 00’s. Ultra detailed tactical micromanagement is pretty much never interesting on the tabletop, even in more modern games that do it relatively well.Sad to say, most of my player experience in mainstream ttrpg with big glossy books has been>make characters, handhold the subliterate or lazy players through the process>some interesting scenes and interactions>first big combat takes the rest of the session as short bus crew crawls through their options>sometimes munchkins who minmaxed to dominate the table with summons or multiattack abilities spam their thing, rest of the group is basically background extras>whole session covers about as much ground as a half hour of play in a lighter system with a good DM
>>98570889why did you invite lazy, illiterate players?
>>98571005Players don’t usually make the invite list. Ironical response given my point about sub literacyDummys can still be fun to play with (more fun than theater kids and giga autists) but you can expect them to comprehend 150 pages of rules to play. You give them a character sheet with six numbers on it and a one line description of their special moves
>>98567187>calling him small timeKind of funny, in retrospect.
>>98538158Yeah, that's what happens dude, you get attacked and need to fight. Imagine running into a hungry bear IRL and bitching that God is forcing you into mandatory combat encounters. If you just want to talk RP you should do a forum RP or something. You sound like a whiny theater kid.
>>98546543You know how games also work? You don't get to play with people if they don't want to play with you. Most people wouldn't want to play with someone who hates a major part of the game
>>98571067>he's a ploidKEK
>>98571812>>98571803If you don't want characters to die, don't put them into combat.
>>98571803If you encountered a bear in real life, you could run away instead of being railroaded into a pointless fight, RETARD
>>98571902Not if your back is to a cliff. Or the bears surrounded you. Going to bitch to the bear how it “railroaded” you as it munches on your balls, yiu sad baby?
Once again "just play 4e" solves the problem and people refuse to do it because they don't actually like what they think they want.
>>98571971still railroading? LOL
>>98572764“Stop railroading me into combat” whines the troll playing a game built around combat
>>98572782>game built around combatconfused them with video games award
>>98571984Because 4e is terrible.I know because I have all the books, and I cannot get rid of them.
>>98572804Just stating a fact. Don’t complain about dnd combat if you hate dnd since it’s built mainly for combat. Play something different instead built for negotiations or stealth.
>>98571984How do you know a 4e troll is lying? Their mouth is open.
>>98572782lol mad
>>98576313I know you’re mad :)
>>98558113Yes, they are. Retard.
>>98571902Bears can run faster than humans and are great climbers. You'll find it rather difficult to flee from a determined bear that really wants to eat you.
>>98572804DnD was literally a mod of a medieval skirmish game. Maybe stop playing it if you hate combat? Or stop playing other combat focused games while gaslighting that they are not combat focused?
>>98576335lol mad
>>98576363retard
>>98576381Mad cause he’s right?
>>98576281>>98573524Articulate specifically what is wrong with 4E. Don't call it anime don't call it a video game be specific about what about it you don't like.
>>98576370Old D&D combat is fun or at least fastAD&D was a mess but one could ignore all the dumb rules easily (and most did)Nu D&D is not “about combat”, it is about the character building minigame. The DM mostly just contrives set pieces to make your character look cool, with just enough risk so that you can pretend it’s a strategy game with actual win and lose conditions.
>>9857643410:1 no one responds.
>>98576434Detailed tactical combat doesn’t work well for pnp tabletop games. 4e and similar games do it about as well as it can be done, so there’s nothing really wrong with it except it doesn’t work for the medium.I would describe the best modes of tabletop combat as:>I hit it with my swordAnd>here’s our plan to drop a rock on the dragon’s head while it sleeps
>>98576754>I hit it with my swordToo boring.>here’s our plan to drop a rock on the dragon’s head while it sleepsToo dependant of DM Fiat which is unfair, inconsistent and unbalanced.4E is King, deal with it.
>>98538158>>98537952>>98554302You retards should probably stop playing Tabletop RPG's and go find some comfy-dipshit discord RP where faggots make gay "uwu" emotes at each other and talk about baking bread or some faggot shit.Combat is kind've an intrinsic part of Tabletop Gaming. If you don't like it, the hobby isn't for you.
>>98576812>Too dependant of DM Fiat which is unfair, inconsistent and unbalanced.You mean what the entire medium was based on? Go play WoW if you want bland, predictable, ability-spamming slop.
>wow editiondumb 4rries KEK
>>98576812no it isn't. you just use the rules in the book.
>>98576902No it isn't.
>>98576812>too boringIt should be too fast to get boring. The players are either spending some resources to curbstomp a minor obstacle, or for tougher threats, the strategy is in stacking the deck for favorable conditions.>dm fiatNo ttrpg escapes this, no system can make a bad gm run a good game. And no vidya or boardgame permits the same imaginative latitude as a well run ttrpg campaign.4e is fine, I can enjoy that style of system if the rest of the game is good. But at the very best case I will end up running the same handful of scripted strategies in every combat while somebody else goes WOW SO KEWL I WILL SPAM SKELETONS JUST LIKE LAST TIME!!!
>>98577280never needed to use fiat in my game. you're just bad.
>>98540764Delta Green doesn't feel tedious, because combat is extremely lethal. This drives players to act like a person in mortal danger rather than a bag of hit points.When I ran 5e, I halved the hp of every enemy,but doubled their damage output. Everyone paid attention and tried to approach the fights as tactically as possible, or avoid thrm altogether
>>98577499The decision to call for a die roll is fiat.So is your work in preparing a dungeon and placing 1d6 orcs in that roomSo is interpreting the block text of a published adventure.Even if you used utterly impartial rng for every single facet of the session, that would be a fiat choice.The DM making calls is an essential part of the format. Embrace it rather than trying to do slow kludgy vidya on paper
>>98577261Tis.
>>98577499>never needed to use fiat in my gameYou did, you're just not creative and a bad DM, so you used very little of it.
>>98577559False on all counts, great job.
>>98578039Nope, I'm good and you're bad.
>>98579715Yes, your claims are indeed false on all counts.
>>98576754>Detailed tactical combat doesn’t work well for pnp tabletop games.Yes it does.
>>98577280Flavorless combat is boring irrespective of how fast it is.
>>98579799Nope yours are if you reply I win.
>>98558895Yes, you don't get to decide. The orcs have already surrounded you and caved in all the exits. There's nowhere to go.
>>98559017>t. nogames wikisurfing shut-in
>>98585706>bad/lack of signposting by the DM>failure of the players>failure of the charactersOne is acceptable and its a built in feature of RPGs
>>98589470Like any players would ever accept blame. Why do you think losers like OP are the way they are?
>>98537952OSR solved this decades ago, but 5e has complicated battle mechanics so wotc can sell you new subclasses and spells
>>98538158Same operative problem as movies not having any real chance of the hero dying before the end. If they died, they'd have a problem doing the rest of the movie, so you can be reasonably assured they're not going to die until then at the very least. In the same vein, if the characters in a campaign die early you're quickly going to run out of people to hold the campaign for. Every once in awhile a DM will let one (1) character die ahead of time because somebody wants out early, but even so.The other Anons are right though, you should probably find a different hobby rather than bitching about this one.
>>98589535You just need to accept that my character will die.
>>98589555And then you’ll leave and stop wasting people’s time whining about the game you seem to hate?
>>98589555Or you could fuck off and find something else to do. Honestly, as someone on the outside looking in - a dozen people ITT have already told you you're in the wrong hobby, its pretty clear that the problem is you.
>>98589579>>98589580Nope, I'll just make a new one. And you'll just have to deal with it.If you didn't want my character to die then you shouldn't have forced him into combat. I mean why did you even bother? Do you just enjoy gambling on making yourself angry?
>>98589609Considering you’re the one going “You’ll have to deal with it”, you’re clearly the angry one.And why would the GM care if you need to make a new character? They’re not the one losing out. You and your party are. You’re losing out cause you’re so shitty at the game you keep dying in combat, losing more so and gold with every loss, and the party is losing out from how you’re dead weight and refuse to either help them in combat or learn the game better. So go on, keep dying. I’m sure the rest of the table will be happy to babysit you and not just throw you out after your eleventh tantrum over how it’s the GM’s fault you suck.
>>98589734And yet you're the one melting down over my character dying.
>>98589773Cute projection. But really, you’re the one still sitting at a table complaining about playing it. You’re the one melting down about combat and rolling up a new character. Rather than whatever stupid strawman you think exists, every GM in the world would just tell you to make a new character or leave since they still have a game to play with the people who are actually interested.
>>98589784What do you mean projection? You're frothing at the mouth threatening to kick me out of games because my character had the audacity to die in battle.
>>98589789Again, considering your position is that you’re somehow blackmailing your strawman GM by continuing to play in a game you profess to hate openly, it’s pretty clear the only one holding anyone hostage is your peeler in your scenario, you idiotic troll. Again, it doesn’t hurt the GM if you kill off your character in an act you openly consider pointless. You’re just ruining your own fun and the rest of the table’s by complaining non-stop and ruining their experience dragging them down in combat. It’s your fault, OP.
>>98589804My position is that you're having a mental breakdown over the idea of my character dying. And it's true.
>>98589810And you’re clearly hallucinating a conversation that’s not happening. No actual GM cares if you kill yourself right there and then.And I don’t just mean in the game.
Have you considered more brutal systems OP?Traveller is a game where even a high level character can go down to a shot to the head for example.
>>98589535No, characters die all the time.
>>98537952>I mean what's the big deal anyways? I'll just make a new one.NOOOOO YOU HAVE TO CARE ABOUT COMBAT!!!
>>98577559>The decision to call for a die roll is fiat.Most systems tell you when to call for die roll>So is your work in preparing a dungeon and placing 1d6 orcs in that roomAny system that includes DM/GM book or rules section will include rules on how to build encounters>So is interpreting the block text of a published adventure.Following stated rules from an offical book is DM fiat?>Even if you used utterly impartial rng for every single facet of the session, that would be a fiat choice.That's not what fiat means>The DM making calls is an essential part of the format. Embrace it rather than trying to do slow kludgy vidya on paperA DM making a call isn't what DM fiat is. DM fiat is when you have to make a call that is completely unsupported by any stated rule due to the DM allowing the players to take actions that fall out of the bounds of the rules.
>>98589773Anon you're the one that made a thread on 4chan about it.
>>98593411It’s clearly a troll who thinks all games are like D&D and has mistaken the meme of RPGs being treated as a performative theater to mean that DMs care too much about players who “break the story” and is thus acting as contrarian as possible by dismissing all combat in RPGs as “pointless” and then when called on it make the pointless “threat” to suicide their character in the vain hopes it pisses off the strawman GM they constructed in their head for “ruining the story”. It’s honestly kind of sad, since it’s basically like watching someone threaten to blow their brains out for not letting them cheat at monopoly. Notice how Op never responds to the people pointing out that if he doesn’t like a game that he should leave to find a game he does enjoy. It’s always about someone else being mad, as though someone wasting time is only a problem for the GM and not the table that is trying to take the game seriously nor the person who is continuing to stew in their misery by staying rather than just leaving and finding a better use of their time.Honestly, this site is weird sometimes. A lot of these fake scenarios seem to think that people are obligatory just stay and make themselves miserable with games, when the reality is that people intentionally trying to waste people’s time or annoy them just get told to leave and then proceed to ignore them or haul them out the door if they sit and pout like a three year old.
>>98537952is there a reason you're telling us? did you mean to post on blogger?
>>98593549you've been making these posts all thread longdnd has never been mentioned by anyone but you
>>98595028Read the thread again, retard.
>>98594141You guys are my best friends.
>>98589470The DM makes the world top to bottom. You fight or don't fight at his whim, your decisions don't matter.
>>98601824Incorrect.
>>98559017>Everything in that setting is about power levels and how good something is in a fight.Your understanding of WoD comes from talking to autistic Magefags on the internet and not actual play.
>>98603830You made this post like 5 times.
>>98537952>I'd rather let my character fucking DIEThat was always an option.
>>98557875There are lots of combats you just can't avoid. And that's precisely why you should elect to simply kill yourself.Judging from a lot of the posts in this thread it apparently hurts the GM a lot more than it does you. Just keep doing it until he learns.
>>98589815>I'M NOT MAD YOU SHOULD KILL YOURSELFkek
>>98608434You seem to misunderstand the point behind someone suiciding their character in this fashion, anon. Characters die all the time in games, from traps to mistakes to last stands. That’s nothing new. It’s the act of treating suicide as some form of blackmail method that tells you what the issue is.>Let me have easier fights or I’ll kill my character!Evidently, they’re banking on the fact that intentionally ruining their party’s enjoyment of the game by weakening the party’s effectiveness will be enough to force a GM to basically give into their demands. Otherwise, suicide in character is a pointless endeavor since as pointed out, they’ll just roll up a new one or leave. And they never have an answer when the GM goes “Okay then, do it”. I’ve seen it done by players that knew they were disliked and trying to use their character’s death to try and somehow guilt the other players, only to ragequit when nobody cared or acted relieved.A sane, normal person who had their time wasted would just negotiate with the GM or leave for greener pastures. A selfish immature brat is the kind of loser that thinks holding a knife and threatening to cut off their finger to cow someone is somehow clever, only to back down when told “Go on, do it faggot”.
>>98608746Except that brings us back to the idea that you shouldn't have put his character into a situation where said character might die if you weren't willing to accept that possibility.Try taking some responsibility for once.
>>98608756Read, nigga. I said that “deaths happen all the time”. I’m the kind of GM that is more than willing to let the party die if that’s how the dice roll. I already accept that possibility the moment the characters are placed into my game. Question is, is the player willing g to take that responsibility to play smart? Or are they going to threaten to shoot their own foot if I don’t save them from their own failures?
>>98608810There aren't going to be any threats. They'll just die and for some reason you'll seethe harder than they ever could.
>>98608815You seem to be under the delusion that the GM is the one seething, rather than the player who got so upset they’re holding their own toon hostage in the hopes of emotionally blackmailing a fat neck ears.
>>98608831Except there is no delusion. You're seething right now like crazy and you weren't even the first.
>>98608835I think you’re projecting. I’m outright telling you to try this method in real life and report back how effective it really is. I’ll wait.
>>98608434Doesn't affect the GM in the least, of course.
>>98608458Yeah. Dumbfuck.
>>98608756No it doesn't.
>>98608434see>>98589470>>98601824Don't play with shit DMs
>>98537952The delicious irony of making this thread with this webm is that the bad guy ends up taking OP's advice and with his suicide he causes just as much seethe as OP ITT.
>>9857646795% of all class features are combat oriented. Just because you don't like the new system, or wanna sperg out about the people who play it, doesn't mean it's not centered around combat.
>>98609105>Doesn't affect the GM in the least, of course....Except making them go absolutely feral with rage for some reason.
>>98609374I’ve seen nobody angry in this thread save Op and you for the fact nobody agrees with you.
>>98576483Because it's been stated ad nauseum that many players to find it to be a shitty mix of a war game and traditional pnp game. Unless anon gets really bored, no one's gonna write a dissertation picking apart the specific mechanics they don't like.And this is an opinion the majority holds; the market already decided that 4e wasn't a fun game for most. Because most are on the current system, or go back to play 3.5, or some OSR variant of AD&D. There isn't that active a community or secondhand market for anything 4e. So standing there, obstinately challenging others to debate the merits of your system, instead of asking others in good faith, isn't going to attract engagement.
>>98609342And yet the most powerful classes in the game are the ones that have the most noncombat versatility.
>>98609374except not doing that at all, you mean.
>>98537952>I mean what's the big deal anyways? I'll just make a new one.
>>98538158You need to keep looking. Try some less popular, more narratively focused games that might attract people with similar taste. Many new TTRPGs include social combat rules so you can still have some stakes without fight to the death at every corner so maybe look into that.
>>98613363Why bother though? It's easier to just make a new character.
>>98613440Just because something is "easier" doesn't automatically make it better.
>>98613613Actually it does.
>>98613440>>98613627Wouldn’t it be easier to just go play a game you liked instead?
>>98613663No? Finding games and groups for them is hard as fuck.
>>98615468For you.
>>98615468So it’s easier to just stay and stew in your misery rather than just find someone else who shares your interests? Or do something like solo rpgs so you’re in control? Or just find a better use of your time?You know how weird that sounds, right?
>>98615665Why are you so upset about my character dying?
>>98615681I’m not. Just baffled you think this hypothetical is somehow a punishment to anyone but yourself, considering you’d be sticking with a game you hate.
>>98615691Punishment how? Losing a character is not a big deal because I can just make a new one.
>>98615699Exactly. It’s not a punishment. But you seem to think it is going by your wording implying anyone should be bothered by it. It’s weird.
>>98615720You're the one making a big deal out of it though. Just look at all this whining and projection >>98615665 >>98615691>nooo find a new game>nooo find a new group>nooo you're so sad>nooo stop playingAgain, why? It's not a big deal. I'll just make a new character.
>>98615734You keep saying “you seem to be bothered”, but that’s your assumption. It’s more that in this hypothetical, you’re clearly unhappy with the direction the game is going, so your first thought is to off your character instead of leaving for a better game like a normal person. Which you wouldn’t be doing if you thought the action was pointless, meaning you think the GM would be bothered by it. So why do you think it matters to the GM whether or not you kill your character?
>>98615753You are definitely bothered. Do you even read your own posts? And you keep insisting that it's me who should be bothered instead.>instead of leaving for a better gameWhy would I leave the game if making a new character is no big deal to me? Are you retarded? You keep dodging the question.
>>98615777>Why would I leave the game if making a new character is no big deal to me? Are you retarded?Given that you’re using the death of the character as an implied threat, that indicates you do care. And by your own words, you don’t enjoy the game. Hence the question why you’re staying if you aren’t happy.>You keep dodging the question.I say the same for you. Why don’t you explain why this is supposed to bother the GM if we both agree it’s a toothless threat?
>>98615803>Given that you’re using the death of the character as an implied threatProjection.>Why don’t you explain why this is supposed to bother the GM if we both agree it’s a toothless threat?Never said that.But if I did make the claim, it wouldn't be a toothless threat. From your posts it's quite evident that you are in fact absolutely furious at the mere suggestion that my character might die.
>>98615818No. Not really. I don’t honestly care when people try this. Mainly cause it smacks of immaturity and manipulation. I’ve had a guy who used to game with my table call someone’s genderbent character a filthy pervert pretending to be a woman, and then get upset when he was ostracized in and out of character. He then declared his character was going to kill himself as “penance”, as though hoping someone would stop him.Nobody did. Nobody bothered to look for the body either. And nobody stopped him when he called everyone heartless and stomped off. We just went in with the game.So believe me when I say I don’t care. If you sat at my table and did this, I’d let you make all the characters you wanted after the last one died. No sweat off my back. You’d just not get the last dead guy’s gear. And you would have to pay back any of the snacks you ate if you didn’t bring your own. That’s the deal.
>>98615856Why are you wasting time on an obvious troll?
>>98615856So unbothered you made up a fake story to show just how unbothered you are.
>>98615866Boredom.>>98615873Believe what you want. Me, I known what happened, and it’s why any threats of suiciding one’s characters are toothless to me. They never stick around after they actually do it.
>>98615856If you're born male you're a man
>>98566850>I never said TTRPGs are just about combat, or that it's even the primary focusYou did though. You got really worked up at the idea of someone not fighting.
>>98619218Projecting
>>98537952>I'm not invested in the game and don't care about the outcomePerhaps play something else? I hear checkers is nice.
>>98621764I know this is nigh impossible for a D&D drone to imagine, but there are things to do in a traditional game that aren't combat.
>>98621786What game are you playing then? Cause D&D and most of its ilk are overly focused on combat, so surely you’re playing something else, right roll?
>>98621800Ironic thing to say because even in D&D, the best combat classes are still several tiers below casters solely because they can do other things.
>>98621824Didn’t answer my question, troll.
>>98621786>something something D&DI don't play D&D, so I don't know why you'd bring that up. Probably your crippling intellectual disability, demonstrated by your bellyaching about the game you CHOSE to engage with.>there's other things than combatYes, and there are other things to move than moving your pawns in chess. But if you decide to play chess without ever moving any pawns, you are probably going to have a bad time. In nearly all TTRPGs, a third of the rules are about combat, and the rules that are not about combat are often proxies to combat (like magic systems, injury systems, etc). You not wanting to be involved with roughly half the game tells me you actually want to do something else than playing that specific game. There are RPGs where there is no combat at all. Find a group that plays them instead. But CHOOSING to play a game where combat is a central part of the experience and then kvetching about that part is so stupid that if brains were gasoline, you wouldn't be able to run a flea's gocart three laps around a cheerio.Find a different game to play, imbecile. I suggested checkers, but perhaps you can take up sorting paperclips, nose picking, or professional drooling. All suggestions that match the level of reasoning you have demonstrated in this thread.
>>98537952Have you tried not being terrible at the game?
>>98623511This isn't chess or checkers you fucking idiot. We're talking about a game where at any given moment you can do whatever the fuck strikes your fancy.And yes, even in D&D, a game that people keep saying is nothing but combat, the classes with the most noncombat power still dominate its meta and farm eternal rage from retarded combat monkeys like you.
>>98624666So you admit you are playing D&D?
>>98551168>dying in combat makes you an assholehuh?
>>98629662Combat effectiveness. Games like D&D constantly tell GMs to build their encounters with the entire party in mind to ensure that the challenge is difficult but fair, at least in theory, adjusting depending on any factors that may come up. Factors such as the sudden absence or disappearance of one of the PCs. Or their immediate suicide and self-removal from combat.Dying in and of itself is not a bad thing for a game like D&D. Sometimes the dice just roll themselves that way. But D&D is also seen as a group activity. So a player suddenly deciding to pull out of a fight without the approval of the table, whether it be deciding to flee and leave their PCs to die or because they don’t care to keep playing yet refuse to make their PC an NPC, can be annoying for the aforementioned combat effectiveness of the party dropping like a stone and making things a lot more difficult. And someone intentionally suiciding their character so that they won’t have to participate in combat is seen as on the same level.And if that’s too abstract, I’ll compare it to a sports game where one guy on the team is visibly refusing to give it their all and rather than shaping up or leaving just sits on the bench heckling their teammates and referee the entire game. It’s not going to kill the game, but his teammates are still down a player which can impact their effectiveness. And the benched dude knows it. So his teammates are not going to think highly of him from then on.Tl;DR Dying in combat in and of itself doesn’t make you an asshole. PCs die all the time. Intentionally dying in combat because you don’t want to play anymore and-or to purposely remove your strength in combat and inhibit your table’s combat effectiveness of the game is what makes you asshole. Cause they know you’re not doing it to enhance their enjoyment of the game, but to hinder it, rather than talk about their dissatisfaction with the table like an adult or just agree to part on amicable terms.
>>98630572except you'd never even know
>>98630572Also, as an addendum, most of the idea that a PC dying usually comes from the same crowd of shitposters that think deaths rattle DMs by “ruining their story”, which is why they claim indifference to their character’s fate. Cause it’s otherwise a toothless threat, since character death for a GM just means rhat player is sitting out for a single combat encounter to roll up a new one. The only ones the tactic of “kill myself to get out of combat/aggravate the party” bothers are the rest of the table, who are there to play a game and not have it ruined by constantly losing an ally in battle via spite, and the suicidal player who is keeping themselves there at a game they don’t enjoy.And yes, the sane solution would be for the guy who’s not enjoying himself to talk to the rest of the table and how he’s not been enjoying himself with the constant fights, and that they’ll likely leave if they’re the only ones not enjoying themselves and they can’t reach an acceptable compromise on how much combat is too much. But that’s what sane adults do. >>98630597> except you'd never even knowUnless they’re like OP and outright telling their plans in a very blatant manner. Which happens quite a bit. They’re not trying to be subtle, after all.
>>98630610>Unless they’re like OP and outright telling their plans in a very blatant mannerwhat are you gonna do, trace OP's IP and check against the rest of your players? retard
>>98630618No, I’d just leave him there to pretend to keep rolling up characters but secretly shitpost on /tg/ with threads about how it’s no big deal if he kills his character while stewing in his own misery, while the rest of the table ignores him to continue the game. As long as he keeps paying for his share of the pizza he takes, it’s his life.
>>98630622you sound like you're about to pop a vein
>>98630625lol. Lmao. Nah, life’s too short and stressful to be using it to actively worry about fake and gay scenarios like this. If OP is real, then it’s his choice to play in games with too much combat, not mine.
>>98629662Yupe, we dont want to play with you, are you going to debate us into playing with you?
>>98631637Maybe don't include fights in your game if you're going to get mad when someone dies in them.
>>98637265Only one who seems to be mad is you, OP, since you keep responding
>>98637265Could just your own game so you can have whatever you want in it and won’t be subject to any unnecessary fights. But you won’t do that cause you’re a lazy nogames.
>>98637607Actually, I won't do it because it's no big deal for me to just die and make a new character.
>>98642121>I hate combat, so I’m going to kill my character and there’s nothing you can do to stop me!>If the combat is a problem, maybe talk to the game master so he’ll tone it down then.>No>Okay, maybe you could convince the game master to switch systems to something less combat inten->No>Okay, if you don’t want to work with the GM, maybe you could just run your own game with less comb->No>Well, I suppose if you don’t want to play under this GM, and you don’t want to run the game yourself, you could find another tabl->No>So what are you going to do then?>Kill my character, then stay and continue playing while continuing to suicide my character when I’m angry with something, cause it’s clearly no big deal to me >Even though you hate the way the game is currently going?>Yes>Even though you’re doing nothing to change the circumstances that make you hate the game?>Yes>Even though you’re not being forced to be here at all, and this is a conscious choice on your end?>Yes>Why?>Cause it’s no big deal if I roll up a new character >Even though you’re telling this to us like you think it is a big deal and making a big production of their death>Yes>This sounds dumb, an->LOL WHY YOU SO MADYou’re weird, anon. The fact there are people like you irl is the sad part of this troll act. I genuinely don’t get why they put themselves through this level of self-abuse and think they’re winning.
>>98643274All of those options take more effort than something that does not matter to me at all.
>>98643291Ah, so you’re lazy AND stupid. That explains it.
>>98643291Again it doesnt matter what YOU think, all that matters is if we want to play with you, and we dont.
>>98643303>>98643325Mattered enough to you to make you mad as fuck.
>>98643333This coming from the lazy cretin who supposedly cares so little that he has to announce his character’s suicide to the table like he’s announcing his period is late this month? Lol.
>>98619218>You did though.No
>>98643333Exactly, all that matters is our feelings, you made us angry so we wont play with you.
>>98538067You can play other kinds of games, anon. Or just not play games. You can literally just... not.But then the elephant in the room is the question of why you're even here? Just go. Just go away. You can literally just go away.
>>98651708I'm not throwing out the baby with the bathwater just because of one little part of the game I don't like, especially after I've already found the perfect workaround.
>>98651715What workaround? Cause you’re still there playing the game with the combat you profess to hate.
>>98651728The workaround is that I will simply die in combat and make a new character instead of participating in it. And I will keep doing this because it's no big deal to me.There's a lot more to this medium than endless filler fights against goblins unlike you retards keep insisting. Try video games if that's what you want, they do it way better.
>>98651736So basically, you’re going to sit there and refuse to play the game rather than just…leave for a game with less combat.I don’t see how that’s a workaround.
>>98651745I can make the current game have less combat by dying in it as soon as it starts.
>>98651763How?
>>98651766Can you not read? By dying.
>>98651768How does your pc dying change anything?
