I'm at the point where I'd rather let my character fucking DIE than be forced to sit through even one more turn of combat.I mean what's the big deal anyways? I'll just make a new one.
>>98537952What’s the matter with the combat? Is it taking forever? I’ve noticed a fairly common problem in D&D 5e groups where they tell new players “You don’t need to memorize all the rules to start playing the game!” which gradually becomes “You don’t need to read all the rules to start playing the game,” and “You don’t need to read all the rules to play,” which results in players knowing hardly any of the rules, so they take forever on their turn as they must look rules up and decide on their action, which leads to a spiral as other easily-distracted players naturally stop paying attention and zone out during these glacial turn lengths meaning they have to take long turns themselves.
>>98538027I've never felt any kind of fulfillment from beating the obligatory fight of the session/adventure.
>>98538067So you're a coward with no honor, got it.
>>98537952> I'd rather let my character fucking DIE than be forced to sit down and gameSo…don’t?
>>98537952Find a new hobby then.
>>98537952>I mean what's the big deal anyways? I'll just make a new one.And what happens the next combat?
>>98538107Robert the Third.
>>98537952Have you triednot playing DnDogshit?
>>98538136I have, actually. It's the same fucking shit everywhere. Every GM somehow feels obligated to shove in at least 1 unavoidable battle to the death every now and then that no one at the table actually gives a shit about but everybody still has no choice but to go through the motions lest their character die.
>>98538158I have a feeling you’re not being entirely truthful, anon
>>98538158Name them. What games have you tried?
>>98538158So basically you haven't actually played anything else.
>>98538158Pans out from my experience.
>>98538167And the OP is about lies and deception, hmmm...
>>98538136Honestly I find it hard to believe any game can make combat not tedious.
>>98540764Most of them manage to make it even more tedious than D&D. Take Shadowrun for example.
>>98540776Or any of the World of Darkness games.
>>98540776>>98540764None of you have played any games besides D&D and it shows.
>>98540764>>98540776>>98543053Nine times outta ten, a combat isn't slow because of the rules, it's slow because the players don't know any rules.
>>98543325No, in cases like Shadowrun it's going to be slow no matter what.Plus it doesn't seem to be what OP is complaining about regardless.
>>98537952From this post, I have gleaned:A). You assume you get to make another character, especially when you just let them die every time you face physical adversity.B). Despite not liking the combat part of the game, you also don't particularly like the roleplay or story-aspects, as you are entirely willing to sacrifice any build up those aspects have to avoid having to guide a character through combat.C). Since long-term content doesn't interest you enough to at least sit tight through combat, you must, by necessity, search for enjoyment in most TTRPGs through short-term antics.Conclusion: You are a lolrandom player who gets their characters into dangerous situations where they get beaten to death, then gets pissy that the GM didn't bend the game in on itself to bail your character out of the fire.
>>98546534>You assume you get to make another characterAnd he assumes correctly. That is how games work.
>>98546543The game works through participation. If you're not engaging with a significant part of the game then why would the GM keep inviting you back?
>>98546568You can't die in combat without participating in it.
>>98546543Given that OP sounds like he barely wants to even be there, why should anyone expect making a new character won’t lead to him suiciding that one out of petulance as well?
>>98546654>the GM throws a fit when a PC dies in his gameWell that's new. Usually it's the other way around.
>>98546686..I’m pretty sure that I stated the opposite is occurring, that the kind of player to who throws their character into something they expect to kill them because “they can just make a new one” is the one throwing a fit. Are you okay, anon? Are you just on autopilot here?
>>98546704So a player dying in one of your games is so unlikely that you immediately suspect foul play whenever it happens? What the fuck are you even doing man? Just don't run the combat at that point.In fact it sounds like exactly what's being described here >>98538158 and you're just making people go through the motions out of some weird compulsion to fulfill a combat quota.
>>98546716Huh? Dude, I’m not OP’s GM. You really are on autopilot with this shit, I see.Like honestly, half the reason I’m assuming that Op is a little bitch is because he went to 4chan to complain about his issues instead of talking to his GM first. Because “too many combat encounters” is a very valid reason to leave the table or pipe up to the DM that something is wrong. Only a little baby weenie considers something as petty and time wasting as intentionally suicide their character in the vain hope it somehow provokes a reaction from their GM. The only one it “punishes” is the player who has to make a new character.
>>98546726>The only one it “punishes” is the player who has to make a new character.blud never thought of just changing the name
>>98547706you also lose gear and levels
>>98547706The new character doesn’t inherit their old characters’s experience, gold or gear. That’s the cost of losing a character in an rpg. All the resources that they accumulated are lost.
>>98547728>>98547737doesn't happenalso doesn't matter even if it did, who cares about filler fights and the filler dog shit +1 swords you need to beat them
>>98537952R-Ryō Fū Setsujin?!
>>98547761It does. It’s the downside to losing characters. And how do you know what’s a “filler fight” and what isn’t? Isn’t that just your spineless bitch baby impression, given that you’re too scared to tell the GM you want less combat to his face and are trolling 4chan to feel better about yourself for being a coward?
>>98547786it doesn'tplay some games for once in your life
>>98547789>doesn’t refute>just double downs like a bitchGotcha, nogames
>>98547792we don't sign our posts here
>>98547795Trying to pretend you’re an oldfag despite being a nogames won’t earn you reddit gold, OP
>>98547786>And how do you know what’s a “filler fight” and what isn’t?You're not slick bud. People can always tell. They're just too polite to say it to your face because you're prone to sperging out.
>>98547846No, seriously. Elaborate. What are the traits of a “filler fight”?
>>98540764prowlers and paragons.
>>98546568what makes you think the GM has any ability to keep me out of his house?
>>98538067Then this is not the hobby for you.
>>98548012> what makes you think the GM has any ability to keep me out of his house?>he says as he stands there, knees straining underneath the several hundred pounds of fatty tissue and greasy pimple scarred skin, straining to keep himself alive through his ragged breath attempting to force air into those hot pocket clogged lungs
>>98549429DnD isn't the only game.
>>98537952Nothing stopping you. Like all non-solo games, you can do whatever you want, but if others dont like it you cant play. Sorry, me and the guys think you are an asshole, dont come to the next game.
>>98551114I doubt you know any games that aren’t dnd
>>98551114Every TTRPG includes combat, otherwise you're just having a conversation while pretending to be someone else. So, this is not the hobby for you.
>>98537952Combat fucking sucks, yeah.I'd suggest a system that doesn't focus on that, like anything by white wolf.Combat will still eventually happen, but at least it's not obligatory in a system like that.
>>98554149>can't imagine any kind of gameplay other than killing goblins 6 times a dayDnDrone.
>>98554303Not an argument, troll. At least do like >>98554302 and suggest something that you want to pretend is superior.
>>98554317This is not your high school debate club. I'm calling you what you actually are.
>>98554326And I’m calling you what you actually are too, troll. You want to not be called a faggot, at least pretend other games than dnd exist.
>>98554302>anything by white wolf>not combat focused
>>98554149Anon, you never played anything except dnd or at best a dnd derivative. Everyone who played other games can see that. Play another game (preferably not a WoD game), and see why we smugly know.
>>98554302>I'd suggest a system that doesn't focus on that, like anything by white wolf.Going to make the first suggestion that actually doesn't focus on it: Ars Magica.
>>98549435whatever you need to tell yourself fatty. kek
>>98538158As an OStard I can't really understand this? Surely you can simply retreat/run away from these fights?
>>98557718Speed : 120 ft
>>98557777I don't know what you're trying to say. I can only assume you are trying to say your characters don't move fast enough to retreat but it's not videogame, you can use your wits to avoid or get away from a battle. Unless your GM is a retard that locks you into arenas or some shit.
>>98547766Hohoooooooo
>>98557878>average combat fan>average everything else enjoyer
>>98557875or unless the opponents are faster than you and have better movement options than you. you aren't going to think your way out of greater teleport at will or incorporeality. retard.
>>98557926Why are you not avoiding battles with said opponents then?It's not a videogame, encounters aren't set pieces you have to beat.
>>98558113>Why are you not avoiding battles with said opponents then?You're not omniscient. You don't get to decide.
>>98558113That’s not how these troll threads work, anon. You’re assuming that OP is talking about being frustrated with too much combat in a game like DNd when it’s clear that OP is an idiot that is trying to make the argument that DND should have no combat at all and that they should get the money and xp regardless, rather than switching to a different game with far less emphasis on combat to begin with.
>>98558303>unprompted schizo rambling
>>98558489>unasked for underage response
>>98558489Nta, but >>98558303 is entirely correct.This is a dnd thread, bitching about combat in dnd and how interchangeable pcs tend to be in most groups.At least stop trying to pretend the thread is anything else, and let people have stupid fun for a few hours.
>>98558182>you don't get to decide>in an RPGI think I see the problem
>>98558895You can decide to engage.You don't get to decide who knocks on your door.At least pretend to be intelligent.
>>98558604Every RPG on the market is about combat and not much else.
>>98558924Your bait is weak
>>98558977WoD breaks this by itself.
>>98559008WoD is occult capeshit. Everything in that setting is about power levels and how good something is in a fight.
Despite what everyone says the only real option for OP is not to play combat oriented OSR/DnD/WoD/Dungeon crawler type games and shift to games such as Lords of Gossamer and Shadow, Daggerheart, or Power by the Apocalypse, or other games which focus on interaction over combat. Their GM won't be able to cope, and neither will the other players, so he's fucked,.
>>98559008You've never played WoD. We can tell.
>>98559017Someone has been in the /tg/ threads too much, and hasn't played the game lol.
>>98559116Let’s be real, OP just wants to bleat about having to roll dice to begin with. Cause any sane person would have suggested a system that wasn’t DND as their first option.
>>98537952This copypasta but about fightfags instead
>I'll simply avoid the monsters with darkvision, telepathy, phasing, teleportation, at will walls, and blindsight in a game about going into places with monsters and fighting them. a game which has AN ENTIRE CLASS called FIGHTER whose ONLY CAPABILITY is to FUCKING FIGHT THINGS AND NOTHING ELSE
>>98556916Nigger, I play more games than you, I never said TTRPGs are just about combat, or that it's even the primary focus, I said they all HAVE it.
>>98562905And then they act shocked and angry when they don’t get any xp or gold for consistently dodging fights and avoiding dungeons, and then blame the GM
>>98557878too bad that "average villainy fan" shat all over him, calling him small time for actually caring about schemes going flawlessly
>>98537952>I'd rather let my character fucking DIE than be forced to sit through even one more turn of combat.Well...draw aggro?
This has been my experience of D&D going back as far as 3e in the 00’s. Ultra detailed tactical micromanagement is pretty much never interesting on the tabletop, even in more modern games that do it relatively well.Sad to say, most of my player experience in mainstream ttrpg with big glossy books has been>make characters, handhold the subliterate or lazy players through the process>some interesting scenes and interactions>first big combat takes the rest of the session as short bus crew crawls through their options>sometimes munchkins who minmaxed to dominate the table with summons or multiattack abilities spam their thing, rest of the group is basically background extras>whole session covers about as much ground as a half hour of play in a lighter system with a good DM
>>98570889why did you invite lazy, illiterate players?
>>98571005Players don’t usually make the invite list. Ironical response given my point about sub literacyDummys can still be fun to play with (more fun than theater kids and giga autists) but you can expect them to comprehend 150 pages of rules to play. You give them a character sheet with six numbers on it and a one line description of their special moves
>>98567187>calling him small timeKind of funny, in retrospect.
>>98538158Yeah, that's what happens dude, you get attacked and need to fight. Imagine running into a hungry bear IRL and bitching that God is forcing you into mandatory combat encounters. If you just want to talk RP you should do a forum RP or something. You sound like a whiny theater kid.
>>98546543You know how games also work? You don't get to play with people if they don't want to play with you. Most people wouldn't want to play with someone who hates a major part of the game
>>98571067>he's a ploidKEK
>>98571812>>98571803If you don't want characters to die, don't put them into combat.
>>98571803If you encountered a bear in real life, you could run away instead of being railroaded into a pointless fight, RETARD
>>98571902Not if your back is to a cliff. Or the bears surrounded you. Going to bitch to the bear how it “railroaded” you as it munches on your balls, yiu sad baby?
Once again "just play 4e" solves the problem and people refuse to do it because they don't actually like what they think they want.
>>98571971still railroading? LOL
>>98572764“Stop railroading me into combat” whines the troll playing a game built around combat
>>98572782>game built around combatconfused them with video games award
>>98571984Because 4e is terrible.I know because I have all the books, and I cannot get rid of them.
>>98572804Just stating a fact. Don’t complain about dnd combat if you hate dnd since it’s built mainly for combat. Play something different instead built for negotiations or stealth.
>>98571984How do you know a 4e troll is lying? Their mouth is open.
>>98572782lol mad
>>98576313I know you’re mad :)
>>98558113Yes, they are. Retard.
>>98571902Bears can run faster than humans and are great climbers. You'll find it rather difficult to flee from a determined bear that really wants to eat you.
>>98572804DnD was literally a mod of a medieval skirmish game. Maybe stop playing it if you hate combat? Or stop playing other combat focused games while gaslighting that they are not combat focused?
>>98576335lol mad
>>98576363retard
>>98576381Mad cause he’s right?
>>98576281>>98573524Articulate specifically what is wrong with 4E. Don't call it anime don't call it a video game be specific about what about it you don't like.
>>98576370Old D&D combat is fun or at least fastAD&D was a mess but one could ignore all the dumb rules easily (and most did)Nu D&D is not “about combat”, it is about the character building minigame. The DM mostly just contrives set pieces to make your character look cool, with just enough risk so that you can pretend it’s a strategy game with actual win and lose conditions.
>>9857643410:1 no one responds.
>>98576434Detailed tactical combat doesn’t work well for pnp tabletop games. 4e and similar games do it about as well as it can be done, so there’s nothing really wrong with it except it doesn’t work for the medium.I would describe the best modes of tabletop combat as:>I hit it with my swordAnd>here’s our plan to drop a rock on the dragon’s head while it sleeps
>>98576754>I hit it with my swordToo boring.>here’s our plan to drop a rock on the dragon’s head while it sleepsToo dependant of DM Fiat which is unfair, inconsistent and unbalanced.4E is King, deal with it.
>>98538158>>98537952>>98554302You retards should probably stop playing Tabletop RPG's and go find some comfy-dipshit discord RP where faggots make gay "uwu" emotes at each other and talk about baking bread or some faggot shit.Combat is kind've an intrinsic part of Tabletop Gaming. If you don't like it, the hobby isn't for you.
>>98576812>Too dependant of DM Fiat which is unfair, inconsistent and unbalanced.You mean what the entire medium was based on? Go play WoW if you want bland, predictable, ability-spamming slop.
>wow editiondumb 4rries KEK
>>98576812no it isn't. you just use the rules in the book.
>>98576902No it isn't.
>>98576812>too boringIt should be too fast to get boring. The players are either spending some resources to curbstomp a minor obstacle, or for tougher threats, the strategy is in stacking the deck for favorable conditions.>dm fiatNo ttrpg escapes this, no system can make a bad gm run a good game. And no vidya or boardgame permits the same imaginative latitude as a well run ttrpg campaign.4e is fine, I can enjoy that style of system if the rest of the game is good. But at the very best case I will end up running the same handful of scripted strategies in every combat while somebody else goes WOW SO KEWL I WILL SPAM SKELETONS JUST LIKE LAST TIME!!!
>>98577280never needed to use fiat in my game. you're just bad.
>>98540764Delta Green doesn't feel tedious, because combat is extremely lethal. This drives players to act like a person in mortal danger rather than a bag of hit points.When I ran 5e, I halved the hp of every enemy,but doubled their damage output. Everyone paid attention and tried to approach the fights as tactically as possible, or avoid thrm altogether
>>98577499The decision to call for a die roll is fiat.So is your work in preparing a dungeon and placing 1d6 orcs in that roomSo is interpreting the block text of a published adventure.Even if you used utterly impartial rng for every single facet of the session, that would be a fiat choice.The DM making calls is an essential part of the format. Embrace it rather than trying to do slow kludgy vidya on paper
>>98577261Tis.
>>98577499>never needed to use fiat in my gameYou did, you're just not creative and a bad DM, so you used very little of it.
>>98577559False on all counts, great job.
>>98578039Nope, I'm good and you're bad.
>>98579715Yes, your claims are indeed false on all counts.
>>98576754>Detailed tactical combat doesn’t work well for pnp tabletop games.Yes it does.
>>98577280Flavorless combat is boring irrespective of how fast it is.
>>98579799Nope yours are if you reply I win.
>>98558895Yes, you don't get to decide. The orcs have already surrounded you and caved in all the exits. There's nowhere to go.
>>98559017>t. nogames wikisurfing shut-in
>>98585706>bad/lack of signposting by the DM>failure of the players>failure of the charactersOne is acceptable and its a built in feature of RPGs
>>98589470Like any players would ever accept blame. Why do you think losers like OP are the way they are?
>>98537952OSR solved this decades ago, but 5e has complicated battle mechanics so wotc can sell you new subclasses and spells
>>98538158Same operative problem as movies not having any real chance of the hero dying before the end. If they died, they'd have a problem doing the rest of the movie, so you can be reasonably assured they're not going to die until then at the very least. In the same vein, if the characters in a campaign die early you're quickly going to run out of people to hold the campaign for. Every once in awhile a DM will let one (1) character die ahead of time because somebody wants out early, but even so.The other Anons are right though, you should probably find a different hobby rather than bitching about this one.
>>98589535You just need to accept that my character will die.
>>98589555And then you’ll leave and stop wasting people’s time whining about the game you seem to hate?
>>98589555Or you could fuck off and find something else to do. Honestly, as someone on the outside looking in - a dozen people ITT have already told you you're in the wrong hobby, its pretty clear that the problem is you.
>>98589579>>98589580Nope, I'll just make a new one. And you'll just have to deal with it.If you didn't want my character to die then you shouldn't have forced him into combat. I mean why did you even bother? Do you just enjoy gambling on making yourself angry?
>>98589609Considering you’re the one going “You’ll have to deal with it”, you’re clearly the angry one.And why would the GM care if you need to make a new character? They’re not the one losing out. You and your party are. You’re losing out cause you’re so shitty at the game you keep dying in combat, losing more so and gold with every loss, and the party is losing out from how you’re dead weight and refuse to either help them in combat or learn the game better. So go on, keep dying. I’m sure the rest of the table will be happy to babysit you and not just throw you out after your eleventh tantrum over how it’s the GM’s fault you suck.
>>98589734And yet you're the one melting down over my character dying.
>>98589773Cute projection. But really, you’re the one still sitting at a table complaining about playing it. You’re the one melting down about combat and rolling up a new character. Rather than whatever stupid strawman you think exists, every GM in the world would just tell you to make a new character or leave since they still have a game to play with the people who are actually interested.
>>98589784What do you mean projection? You're frothing at the mouth threatening to kick me out of games because my character had the audacity to die in battle.
>>98589789Again, considering your position is that you’re somehow blackmailing your strawman GM by continuing to play in a game you profess to hate openly, it’s pretty clear the only one holding anyone hostage is your peeler in your scenario, you idiotic troll. Again, it doesn’t hurt the GM if you kill off your character in an act you openly consider pointless. You’re just ruining your own fun and the rest of the table’s by complaining non-stop and ruining their experience dragging them down in combat. It’s your fault, OP.
>>98589804My position is that you're having a mental breakdown over the idea of my character dying. And it's true.
>>98589810And you’re clearly hallucinating a conversation that’s not happening. No actual GM cares if you kill yourself right there and then.And I don’t just mean in the game.
Have you considered more brutal systems OP?Traveller is a game where even a high level character can go down to a shot to the head for example.
>>98589535No, characters die all the time.
