Friend made a enslopification chart to be applied to various things.Figured the 40k board needed it the most
>>98583274The squeeze explains this new Warlock game randomly throwing Tasha in there for IP farming.
does this really workwhen was the last time you'd call 40k an 'obscure' game
>>98583274Honestly a decent take for nerd hobbies in general, not 100% accurate to 40k but the broad strokes are there.
I don't hate it, though 'quality' is very unspecific.
>>98585096>Honestly a decent take for nerd hobbies in generalFor that to be true there has to be new IPs just beginning the quality rise.Like...
>>98584550???40k is about halfway down the 'Descent into slop' phase. It hasn't been in the 'obscure' phase since probably the eighties.
>>98585245MtG is clearly in the Squeeze and DnD is somewhere approaching it. What current thing is even at the Knee or above it right now? Traveller? It's sure not WoD
>>98585262The One Ring is between the peak and the knee at present. Discord troons are really trying to kill it though.
>>98583274I don't like how this image seems to paint autistics/obsessives as the foundational pillar of good culture. Look at bronies and Steven Universe and shit. Super autistic obsessive fanbases but they're slop. Or look at hardcore autism mods. They get slopped all the time, and it's not from a casual invasion. I wish there was a magic demographic that inherently has good taste but there's just not.
>>98583274i don't know if it's strictly true, but it certainly feels that way.
blah blah blah thing i like was only good when only i knew about itget new material
>>98585262Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. It’s still distinctly Warhammer and fun to play, but you can feel it’s one decision away from the descent.
>>98585294>I don't like how this image seems to paint autistics/obsessives as the foundational pillar of good culturet. Post-Knee Neurotypical
>>98585262I think this graph was made with dnd in mind, yet I feel it's not truly appropriate for dnd because dnd is so dependent on your dm and players that even a bad system can be fun with a good group, and vice versa. MTG is appropriate though. Imagine new york being the most represented setting in the game.
>>98585748We do, but every time we get a cool new thing you cunts turn up and it turns to slop.
>>98586008yes this describes mtg very well, i would just put the peak halfway through the high part of the graph instead of the beginning
>>98583274Warhammer literally is the squeeze. How else do you explain characters like malus darkblade who are just a desperate attempt to cash in on the edgy protagonist fad started by Elric.
>>98585262>Can't name anything above the kneeIt's literally over for you, man.
>>98585262OSR and indie RPGs
>>98585294>how can every square be a rectangle but every rectangle isn't a square?
>>98583274The only way to keep your hobby pure is by keeping it insanely private and putting all new memberships to a full blackball vote. If there is any possibility for newbs to peruse the hobby without interacting with the designated gatekeepers, then you've already lost. This means you should have zero products on store shelves, zero information on the surface web whatsoever, zilch. People need to understand that it's literally impossible to prevent enshittification and tourist behaviour so long as there is a profit incentive to bring new people into a hobby, so don't even bother trying. Trying to gatekeep a large IP is swimming against the stream. Thank capitalism.
>>98583274There is a profit margin missing from this graph that would explain everything.
>>98583274So this is how contrarian nostalgiafag hipsters see the world.No the game didnt get worse, you got jaded and cynical. No more people being involved doesnt magically make the thing you like less special, get over it hipster. I am so tired of you people thinking that more people liking something makes it worse. Things tend to improve over time, useless mechanics and autistic rules gwt dropped because they just arent fun. But autists see any reduction in complexity as inherently bad even if it streamlines things or removes something pointless.
>>98583274>"The Knee"The fact that this inescapably conjured the phrase>back of the knee maybein my mind is proof to me that I'm too far gone
>>98587041>No the game didnt get worseignorant and boring.
>>98587041This is such obvious bait it should be a crime
>>98586008>I feel it's not truly appropriate for dnd because dnd is so dependent on your dm and players that even a bad system can be fun with a good group, and vice versa.Sure, but that's kind of inherent in ttrpgs. I think it holds up if you look solely at the material being produced through the editions.
>>98585262>What current thing is even at the Knee or above it right now?As another anon said, Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. It's in a very good place right now, but that means future revisions are going to slop it up.
People who post shit like this play pretty much second-tier from mainstream shit like Warhams, Magic or Vidya wise it's Fallout. I call this the second-tier obscure guys. People who actually like obscure shit tend to just be kind of reclusive introverted (Both in mainstream consensus and actual Jungian psychology) sorts. I never really see Roguelike, Traveller and Battletech guys act like this.
>>98587041Go streamline yourself and remove something pointless.
>>98583274>Laserburn>Rogue Trader>descent towards 5th edition>sloppification into 8th>we are now towards the end of the squeezeIt's grim to realize your autistic fixation has been shit for nearly two decades.
>>98587606Be glad you don’t. I can imagine within their communities that they have some real nightmare autists plaguing them.
>>98583274You created "Geeks, MOPs, and sociopaths in subculture evolution" from first principles, congrats.
>>98585245No, 40k is still on the knee, it has mass exposure and GW is certainly trying to push for slopification, but the insane wealth of material for 40k keeps it locked firmly in the autist range. There are over 60 HH novels alone.
Warhammer started out as slopNow its like some prince valiant photoshop trash.Its not as disgusting violent or "satanic" nowAnd the rules and stats have definitly been more streamlined since rogue trader. its complexity only seems to decrease with each edition.Warhammer also used to be cheaper.
Man, I wish I had talent. I'd love to make something good.
>>98583274https://meaningness.com/geeks-mops-sociopaths
>>98587041>more people liking something makes it worseBut that's the problem, retard-kun. They don't LIKE it. They like the "scene."
>>98587080I had>It's more effective than the Falcon Punch
>>98583274I'd contest this only a little. The Knee is the highpoint, at least for some hobbies, so I'd say it gets marginally better before the Knee, then collapses fast. Case and point WoW Burning Crusade being the absolute peak of that game. One thing of note is that this chart doesn't account for how dying and dead IPs who resurge work. I'd say Warmachine now is pretty fucking lit.
>>9858524540k is being squeezed hard. It was on the knee 20 years ago or so.
>>98587606Battletech isn't safely obscure. It's partly safe because the rules are too complex for posers, but they're writing all the novels now. They don't have to be able to take part in the actual core, they just need to pretend a little.
>>98585262GURPS will never hit the knee
>>98591054Battletech has too much rules inertia to be slopped to deathYou can't even balance legitimate issues
If you're not THE autist frontman of a bullshit so obscure that's about to blow up, what the hell are you doing with your life?
>>98591228They just did a big rules update and also replaced vehicle and infantry rules with asset cards. Also, they can play alpha strike. Or, not play at all and insist they're just as much a fan as you are anyway. They're still current writers regardless of whichever excuse they care to pick.I'm not saying it's all over bros but I am saying that the threat is currently knocking on your door, same as they do everything. They don't need to play the game, learn the rules, read the books, none of that stops people from posing.
>>98583274Don't confuse nerds with autists.Bumpfag or Pucklfuck are autists, yet they're unable to produce anything of value.Many IPs were brought down by autists missing the point.
Warhammer is the most mid thing ever, it's like the mcdonalds version of heavy metal magazine. The idea that it was peak quality for true autists is laughable. Also the way people on this board present Warhammer Fantasy Battles as the "true le based alternative" when it's just another flavor of slop is absurd. Most Warhammer Fantasy novels are from after 1997 when 40k was already big anyways.
>secondary seethe
>>98587845>>98590816tldr your nerd shit, i'm not reading allat
>>98583274Magic the Gathering is squeezed dry at this point, I knew it was over as soon as they started doing mainstream IP drops. In fact, IP slop is the death knell of all games, anyway enjoy the new World of Warcraft Dungeons and Dragons module guys can't wait to roll a Tauren.
>>98584534Also M:tG turning itself into Fortnite and throwing in everything from Final Fantasy to Ninja Turtles. I'm honestly surprised Goku isn't in the game yet.
>>98590785>I'd love to make something good.You can always hang yourself
>>98591310They survived clickytech, they'll survive AS too.
40k has been slop from the start40kids are delusional retards who don't read literature
>>98591310Asset rules are an alternative ruleset. Alpha Strike is too and NO ONE plays it.
>>98591310Damn I didn't know that. A bit late to fuck up 40 years of clunky add-ons upon add-ons
>>98591455Creatives attract fanatics. Fanatics create a hobby. Hobbies attract casuals, who may alienate fanatics, or if they don't, will eventually attract parasites, who pose as creators and fanatics to benefit from a hubby's social and financial capital in order to pursue their actual interests, which have nothing to do with the hobby. Eventually, the hobby becomes a shell of itself, because the creators and fanatics leave or become compromised to parasite goals.The proposed solution is to exclude parasites where recognized from positions of authority and to use some of their tactics to support the hobby and its core contributors without totally cynically gutting the hobby to pursue other objectives.
>>98592293They redid the actual rules recently and it's mostly good changes except they've made Piloting basically irrelevant. Some stuff was badly needed. MRMs are no longer borderline worthless and ultras are an actual upgrade now. Ammunition explosions have been nerfed to be less retarded and CASE has been buffed. Kicks got nerfed so there's actually reasons now to do melee besides kicks and amazing rat trick TSM hatchet mechs.
>>98592310I was reading through the changelog and I don't think Piloting is useless, it's just less slapstick
>>98590816The mental gymnastics on display here are truly impressive. All that contortion to avoid the actual conclusion of>maybe tying a portion of your identity to a market product is an inherently flawed idea to begin with
>>98585262Grand strategy vidya perhaps. The sheer scale and complexity of the games serve as a sort of natural gatekeeping. A lot of people take one look at a screenshot of CK2 for example and think "there's no way I could ever get into that".The tabletop equivalent of this is probably stuff like Advanced Squad Leader where the instructions could fill a small college textbook.
>>98592303Thanks chatGPT.
>>98592399I don't think that's what is being discussed there at all. I mean, Games Workshop hasn't been a subculture thing for over 25 years. Anyone who has been a fan of it since the turn of the millennium is pretty obviously a MOP based on this.
>>9859069740K passed over The Knee during Kirby's mad king phase where he started blowing up the fucking settings so they could be turned into "ongoing narratives", because normiesloppa hogs can't handle the prospect of "narrative LEGO" where the setting gives you the building blocks and you build the story yourself.The 60 HH novels ARE the "descent into slop" phase where was had been a concise background narrative is turned into an endless tide of normified Daddy Issue Simulator novels to "expand the lore" for people who couldn't deal with the idea of Space Marines as hate-fuelled killing machines slaughtering the enemies of humanity in the throes of semireligious fervour and needed "sympathetic" and "relatable" characters. You can even follow the plummet down the slope: The Knee itself is the first few HH novels when they still planned it as a concise, 12 novel series, and the descent is them grasping that the significant popularity of those first few books *even outside the existing 40K fandom* was their doorway into a normie IP they could eventually sell to Amazon and churning out Hereseyslop at full-tilt with ever-declining quality and coherency, culminating in the utterly normified Siege books where the Emperor beats Horus by having a fucking psychic Yu-Gi-Oh CCG battle.
>>98591219GURPSchads stay winning. Our autism reigns supreme.
>>98593098More like SJG is too broke and dumb ever to make a 5e
>>98590975It's really sad. We can all see it happening but it hasn't hit the point that it's completely undeniable to everyone yet.
>>98591835I don't know how to tie knots :(
>>98585294Autism is a necessary but not sufficient condition for fandom quality.
>>98587041>Things tend to improve over timelol. lmao even
>>98592278>Asset rules are an alternative rulesetThey're the new standard rules. The classic vehicle rules are being removed and put on the back burner to be revisited at some later point.>Alpha Strike is too and NO ONE plays itIt keeps getting more releases and support for a reason. Alpha Strike was put out to appeal to new players, and it worked. Not like it matters. My point is that culture warriors are being approached for the writing team either way. There isn't anything that's actually "too autistic for the normies to get into", if it gets popular they'll start crawling in.
>>98595726Proof?
>>98592399That's not entirely it, but close enough.
>>98587041>reddit spacing>reddit takegenuine question, why do you love sucking so much cock?
>>98587706Be the change you want to see, get the newblood hooked onto pre 4e content
Autists cannot create anything of worth on account of having no soul. All they do is latch on to things created by others and screech when it deviates from their autistic mental image of the thing when they first encountered it. Worst of all, they are unable to tell when they’re not wanted or even when they themselves do not want to continue. They will engage with things they hate for years simply because it’s part of their routine.
>>98585751Already includes niggers, jeets, fags and strong women soldiers and knights.
>>98594578>the point that it's completely undeniable to everyoneIt's crazy that you think such a point exists.
>>98595733Current writer and moderator of the official subreddit.
>>98601598Yeah battletech has been infested with troons for a while. It's much, MUCH worse in the gaming and book sphere though with outright literary smut etc Thankfully battletech and mechwarrior has existed before these freaks, and will survive long after they get bored and fuck off to another ip to ruin. And most don't have the patience to actually play table top outside of painting minis.
>>98601609Why do you assume there's an organised group of trans people who's mission is to destroy everything you love? More likely than not, it's just a bunch of individuals who enjoy battletech, and individually want to pour some of their own identity into their work, like literally everyone does. Assuming there's a grand conspiracy out to get you is textbook schizophrenia btw.
>>98587041God help you if this isn't bait
>>98601614I never said they were an organized group, you're the one saying that as an excuse to call me schizophrenic. Nor have you disproved anything I said. We can see examples of what I've said already with the shown tweet, MW5, MWO, Battletech, anything on reddit essentially, and the really nasty sex scenes in the recent novels.
>>98583274>>98585294I feel like if you replace 'autism' with 'niche' it works as good or better.
>>98592303>The proposed solution is to exclude parasites where recognized from positions of authoritycool it with the antisemetic remarks
>>98601598Curious how "it was always for me" is one of the most rapidly-pulled cards by these people.
Generally agreed, and retards often assume quality goes up over time so mistake settings that start in the middle of the graph produced by a corpo as "not having time to mature yet"
>>98585131Ones you haven't heard of because you're in the middle of the graph in terms of necessary accessibility to appeal to and can only appreciate the left side of the graph in retrospect where you explore what came before in the slopped things you like.
>>98587041"things tend to improve over time" is peak midwitteryNew things or systems tend to be better than older things because they learned from the older things, Quality peaks early on after a brief period of footing-finding. Individual things or systems decay over time.The second and third piece of a media series is often the best. The fifth and sixth are most often bad. But, generally speaking, newer exceptional examples reach higher highs than the previous classics of the art form because they have more to learn from, provided the super-system around that production isn't itself decaying.>>98587606That's because only second-tier media gets to this point, actually obscure shit stays comfortably on the left on the graph.
