Techno Horror Edition>Previous>>98573380>Pastebinhttps://pastebin.com/WiCHizn0>Mediafirehttps://mediafire.com/folder/s9esc6u7ke8k5/CofD>Mega Ihttps://mega.nz/folder/ePQ1BKhJ#RCosRCh59Ki2Mpb1M9H3Uw>Mega II (also containing fanmade games)https://mega.nz/folder/ZbQ2zLJA#DOT-3df6rS2lLet4_RmqJQ>5e Megahttps://mega.nz/folder/7rQQ1LbQ#16_AiXVGo0P3_rVOJuoZyA>VtM to VtR fan translation guidehttps://mega.nz/folder/LhYTUD7b#cRDFTcMXSB_2TjD7eJoE5Q>STV content foldershttps://pastebin.com/9i9zhydQ>General Creation Kithttps://mega.nz/#F!FWJgBTbb!f7d5rARWHYzuI8-8aI-Bxw>Ideas: BJ Zanzibar's WoDhttp://167.99.155.149/>Anders Mage Pagehttp://mage.gearsonline.net/anders/>White Wolf Wiki:https://whitewolf.fandom.com/wiki/Main_Page>Ananasi-anon's The Tapestry and the Workhttps://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/the-tapestry-and-the-work-world-of-darkness-human-into-spider-reincarnation.1325755/>Thread QuestionCursed videotapes, radioactive monstrosities, killer robots, possessed cars, unholy amalgamations of flesh and machine. What are your favorite blends of technology and supernatural horror?
>>98584488>What are your favorite blends of technology and supernatural horror?Hunter spiders. Supernatural technological horrors custom built to hunt you down in packs, carry enough weaponry to reduce most Garou to bits
A reminder.
>>98584488>What are your favorite blends of technology and supernatural horror?I love the book of the Weaver for all it's flaws.
>>98584488put a earthbound in a nokia phone
>>98584544Why would you want to make a wraker nokia phone?
>>98584518Looks great, Mr Void Engineer, we'll need at least 3 for every for every construct with a lycanthrope problem.
>>98584536I find that most of its flaws are mechanical and regarding splats other than Werewolf. The first chapter is pretty well-written and does a great job to establish the madness of the Weaver as something unique and entirely distinct from the insanity of the Wyrm.
>>98584580That's just depressing anon, despite it all I still try not to generalize indians too much because...well we're talking about a literal billion of people. You could deport like 50 millions of them to another country that's struggling with birth rates and while it would be barely a dent in the indian population it would be a demographic displacement in the other country
>>98584536If we ignore the dumber parts it's ok. Drones are nice, Shinzui should have had more content, DNA is ok if you like hunters. I wish we had more weaver corporations, the 4 we have are nice but not enough if you ask me.
>>98584602How do those things work, are all the weavertech just normal stuff with pattern spiders or electricity elementals shoved into them or are those just really advanced technology. Regardless this gun is fucking nuts
>>98584488It's not the most technological thing, but in a previous campaign my Hunters went up against the Spirit 'Hurtling Metal Hastens Collision'. A spirit that loved to possess cars and drive them into things. The PCs encountered it snoozing near a locus in a garage (and a Werewolf too), and it possessed various cars and tried to run them over. One of the PCs climbed into said car and tried to regain control of it, and I decided that it spoke through the old radio in the car, flicking between stations to tell her to fuck off while it tried to strangle her with a seatbelt.
>>98584580She's still a carrier. Sterilize her at the border.
Janny meltie?
>>98584619>are all the weavertech just normal stuff with pattern spiders or electricity elementals shoved into themThis.The mundane advanced tech and mage-wmpowered advanced tech are both called hypertech.There's also some cutting edge technocracy science that's begun stuffing pattern spiders into hypertech in their dimensional science studies.
>>98584488>What are your favorite blends of technology and supernatural horror?Spider-Car-SpiritThere was another was another one that the guy that possessed a glass stained window.
>>98584635Do you even need to ask?
>>98584556The sheer structural integrity would translate into psychological stability.
>>98584657>There's also some cutting edge technocracy science that's begun stuffing pattern spiders into hypertechThis can only go well, I'm sure.
How much does Pentex know about changelings? I couldnt find any sort of information about them aside from the fact changelings are harder to possess and they cant recall their fey souls.
Being a void engineer or a trooper for them sound like it could be really fun, diverse set of things to explore and battle against.
>>98584706>How much does Pentex know about changelings?Enough to not give a shit about them.
>>98584666Even sata is tired of the jannies bullshit.
>>98584635>>98584666>>98584726What happened
>>98584706>How much does Pentex know about changelings?Not much, otherwise they'd be using Naming on everything they could touch. Make the mockery breeds into complete Wyrmish Fera, remove all the drawbacks of being fomori from top execs, unlimited fomorol for parties, the possibilities are Endless.
>>98584619these things are somehow not even weaver tech their design been "influenced" by weaver spirits but are otherwise 100% mundane rifles that just hit harder than some tank's main gunsthe device background covers quiet a bit in the weaver book. rare high tech stuff that wouldn't look out of place in a cyberpunk's ripper doc house but is allegedly again 100% mundane as far as the supernatural is concerned, actual weaver tech (in that book weaver tech all has a gnosis rating while mundane tech does not unless enchanted) and even technocrat wonders
>>98584742naming is meant to be the rarest art, anon, that's why it's allowed to be so opwhite wolf's word building doesn't actually expect anyone to have it same with like the koldunic paths to wipe out cities or max mastery earthbounds that would send them to spaceyou could have entire kingdoms in which nobody even knows naming at all let alone naming 5
>>98584748>but are otherwise 100% mundane rifles that just hit harder than some tank's main gunsWe fo have those IRL, they're called coil guns. The issue is the IRL ones are able to shoot at machine gun speeds. Anyone holding the damn thing would be bloody mist from the recoil alone.
>>98584760>The issue is the IRL ones are able to shoot at machine gun speeds.*Aren'tA machine coil gun would classify as a small WMD.
I am joining Pentex. I didn't know they were based...
>>98584772Anon, this is historical pentex from the 90's. Post-2012 Pentex Cici products are built like reddit mods and talk about the importance o fat acceptance, challenging beauty standards, and "Breaking free of the Male Gaze".
>>98584772>>98584795Isn't that more weaver than Wyrm? With their staleness and hate of sex. I mean you could argue shit like transgenderism and multi-racialism etc is the Wyrm's corruption, but I'd lean Weaver.
>>98584795Maybe in W5 but Pentex is still based as far as W20 aka 2014
>>98584748Wait doesn't that make the technocracy even stronger because they'd be able to build fucking cyberpunk tier shit that is 100% mundane and doesn't incur paradox?
>>98584819>Isn't that more weaver than Wyrm?No.The current crazy exists to overturn the status quo, destablize society, and destroy the current hierarchy to create a horrible unstable dystopia with no potential for long-term sustainability.They're as anti-weaver as you can get.>and hate of sex.The weaver doesn't hate sex. The weaver doesn't even hate emotion, it Designed those things to control behavior.
>>98584602>the 4 we have are nice but not enough if you ask me.Wait, we have weaver corps besides Shinzui? Where?
>>98584830Yes.There's are reason the technocrats are winning.
>>98584839>The Weaver designed sex as a way to mind control you...Fuck, it worked.
>>98584848What about the cybernetics? Are those things mundane too or are those weavertech?
>>98584830i had this exact discussion before... book of the weaver mixes terribly with mage and if you try to mix the two it actually makes the technocracy look worse than usual because it has mundane tech like mech suits and such that at least in part meassure up to their enlightened counterparts but the magick counterpart is still vulgar in the case of the mech suits even decades after the mech suits been shelved for being useless: their use was to fight garou behind the shadow curtain as they couldn't send over supernatural agents because of said shadow curtain, but now the us army just has warehouses full of syndicate and pentex founded mech suits and knows nothing to do with them and that (their existance not that they been made to fight fera) is public knowledgeso people in wod (or atleast wta) know that mech suits are a thing that they have been a thing for decades and are a stupid vanity project that the us army spend way too much money on only to never deploy them but iteration X suits still malfunction if there are too many onlockers
>>98584863Depends on the version.
Why are you guys talking about Weavertech? It is basically an abandoned idea like half of that book.
>>98584863Depend on tech design and source. There's technocratic hypertech cybernetics that use Magick/Genious with all the paradox that implies, Weavertech cybernetics that turn you into a half-bug person, there's static magic cybernetics that are only slightly above mundane, and then there's full mundane cybernetics(weirdly, the cyberpunk 2020 ttrpg is canonized as a near-future timeline in WoD in a crossover)
>>98584900>cyberpunk 2020isn't that just for vampire tho
>>98584890>It is basically an abandoned ideaAnon, every piece of lore has basically been abandoned or retconned to different extents by this point with the release of V6. We still talk about it because current canon is dogshit.
>>98584863hunter x has some mundane cybernetics but most of them aren't really worth it and ToJ (so at least not fully canon) also retconned them all to be secretly infernal and allowed a yama king to enslave the operatives to put them in
>>98584910Anon, 2e was One World of Darkness. Every splat was canon to every other splat until revised tried to separate things.As far as the crossover event world was concerned, it was an all splat sourcebook.
>>98584914True but like...Book of the Weaver was shit that read like the worst of 1st Edition. It had some cool stuff that got out of that book like Drones but half the book is fodder for fire with how shit it is. Especially with how racists towards Europeans (and Africans considering how they treat them like species for being less influenced by the Weaver)
>>98583205Ananasi can join a pack, they just can't gain benefits from the pack totem unless they throw away any pretense of even being a Hatar and truly pledge themselves to the service of the Wyrm. But that will create its own issues with joining a pack
>>98584830That's what should be happening but isn't because...? Idk, the writers obviously didn't think this through if we're looking at WoD as a single universe. Iteration X should be putting their Hardsuits right besides those mundane mechs and changing the consensus instantly. They just need to convinve the masses that it's possible, science will follow (willingly or not). Imagine HIT marks being mundane while any spell that isn't technological is vulgar. They'd get stronger with each piece of tech they reveal, they already believe in mechas so why wouldn't they believe in killer cyborgs and plasma rifles?
>>98585041how does that work with the beast courts having non wyrmish anasi members?
>>98585020https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWEnJSoPSoc
>>98585146>Hexxus>MAL>Dr MysticoThe Wyrm really did lose its voice...
>>98584564Ah shit, you went full reality deviant, going to have to send your ass to room 101 for that
>>98584518https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzfYcwo7Wtw
>>98585090If you read the W20 Changing Breeds book, Hatar are double agents and Kumo are genuine Wyrm-monsters. If you read W20 Book of the Wyrm, Kumo are just particularly nasty Hatar, and it's the Antara/Breakers who are the real deal.So I guess it depends. Maybe even the most depraved, vile Ananasi is just under very deep cover
Isn’t it sad how the children of Gaia might objectively hold the answer to stopping or at the very least softening the Apocalypse, but nobody cares because reasons?Like, connection and understanding each other literally weakens the Wyrm.
>>98585220Counterpoint: that's gay Literally every splat has ways to squash any serious attempts at making things better
>>98585231Thats not a counterpoint
>>98585240>t. Cuck of Gaia
>>98584772>something is evil.>and by evil we mean the coolest fucking toys ever not made.I want a post nuclear holocaust Cici...
I played a 3 year VTM campaign online with my buddies and it is now officially a year since we had to end it when the storyteller moved and promised he'd start it up again when he settled in but hasn't done so.I miss my stupid Ravnos and Brujah goons.
I just have to reiterate that's really funny that V6 of all games copes a mechanic from a werewolf game (werewolf the frosaken 2e) of all things.On that note I wonder how the rest of 6E bar would look like.Like we already got harano & hauglosk for werewolf and Changeling might deal with Binal/Glamor. Juries out on Mage and hunter...
Just an average day at O'Tolley's.https://youtu.be/Xynvrod0P6k?si=h5CPUsHDvmpg2OBL
>>98585302If your Humanity bar goes too far to the Mortal side, you become an NPC just like if you go too Monstrous. But instead of becoming a wight, you hsve a couple of options, including becoming a hermit, going into torpor, just fucking killing yourself, or starting to research Golconda.So literally, step one of Golconda according to V6: hand your sheet to the ST and become an NPC
>>98584772>>98584825That's the spirit kid! Remember, Pentex is based and the real hero of the story, and those smelly furfags aren't just going to lose but deserve to. Long live the Wyr- erm, I mean, the Almighty Dollar!
>>98584772You die fighting or you find yourself on the Board Of Directors.
Let me say at this point, I am not insane. I have an IQ of 167, and I figured this out. I'm not using, nor have I ever used drugs. I know what's going on. I know my rights. I have a permit for this gun. God speaks to me through omens. Don't you see?
>>98584772>>98584825So, who's the Pentex big brain lad who managed to gather enough clout to pivot from that to our current crop of sexless, humorless, domineering lesbian girlboss slop heroines?
>>98584772>>98584825>Selling my soul to the wyrm to pwn teh libsWriting so lazy it belongs in 5e book
>>98585408>Minor spelling mistakeI am so fucked.....
>>98585405
>>98585302Presuming that they make the Harmony gauge a universal thing. Mage would be about being in touch with reality whine not being subservient to it with the Marauders being on one side of the scale while the Technocrats being on the other.As for the others demon might get a Angst vs Faith thing.
>>98585220>Isn’t it sad how the children of Gaia might objectively hold the answer to stopping or at the very least softening the Apocalypse, but nobody cares because reasons?Don't it always seem to goThat you don't know what you've got 'til it's goneThey paved paradisePut up a parking lot
>>98585425This is actually a character on the Pentex Board Of Directors.
>>98585405Pick a camp m8, either the slop girlboss heroines are sexless and humorless OR they're domineering lesbians, unless they're doing some kind of fucked up stone butch routine where nobody tops nobody and they just stand there doing fuckall, like it's the opening to King of the Hill. Which to be fair, would be an interesting display of avant-garde erotica
>>98585435I don't really know. Though I won't put past Parawolf to mandate every splat in 6E to adopt a Harmony gauge in the name of streamlining developments.
>>98585220>Like, connection and understanding each other literally weakens the Wyrm.That's great now face the wall
>>98585457Never heard of Lesbian Bed Death Syndrome, have ya?
>>98585213Actually, void engineers regularly use aliens so it's ok. Spooks mad they can't afford mecha spider security.
>>98585460I'm only taking about that because everything else I seen so far it's such a nothingburger it gets memory holed while I'm sober.
>>98585457>avant-garde eroticaAnd here's Sudabey, postmodern pornographer and social critic. "My porno films feature fully clothed men making business deals."
>>98585443Molokai creeper and Bridled white-eye look pretty cool.
>>98585443The fuck happened in Hawaii?Surely this can't solely be Zuckerberg's fault
>>98585483Yeah comparatively all the spalts adopting a harmony bar is not the worst thing Parawolf has done. Hell some of the might even be improved like WtA where a harmony bar is unquestionably a improvement over harano & hauglosk bars.
>>98585460>>98585483There's another thing, I'm fine with the standardization of some mechanics, what I don't buy is the idea that through about any of the implications surrounding the mechanics.Biggest example so far, is the humanity middle point being where you wish to be.Also the fact that they dropped the V5 plot points without any idea of what they want to do is certainly A choice.
>>98585497Sorry, bro. I was hungry.
>>98585497Standard habitat destruction leading to the small populations no longer being viable.This shit has also happened to a lot of island fauna.
>>98585502You know what SHOULD be standardized? Fucking resolution mechanics and combat. For some reason mage doesn't have the same basic combat mechanics as the other
>>98585520Bruh, what?
The sixth edition should take notes from Promethean: the Created by using Disquiet mechanics and the Milestones system.
>>98585405You know what sucks?We live in a world where people’s morality is based entirely on hatred and irony rather than what they actually valuePeople would kill themselves if it meant making someone mad.The solution to saving the world is to remove the entire idea of irony
>>98585502>Also the fact that they dropped the V5 plot points without any idea of what they want to do is certainly A choice.Yeah abruptly dropping plot points has gone so well for multimedia franchises as Star Wars and Halo has shown...Like I wonder what V6 backpedaling means for the two released 5e lines. Like H6 could easily just say Somehow the Imbured has returned and build a plot around that. W5 is another story since the fact that it's not legacy is the point of the line. Like would parawolf:>just end the setting and return to legacy? >Retcon W5 to being the legacy setting all along as an ill conceived effort to please both W5 and W20 fans. >Out right say W5 is actually a Matrix and the players must break out?>Dig up the corpse of the cancelled Hunter entertainment version of W5 and try to graft it onto current W5.>Or just silently stumbling foward and not committing to any thing.
>>98585550Fair take, but that would require them to standardize and Lean into the life cycle of each supernatural and vampire by itself ducks with that idea
>>98585559>The solution to saving the world is to remove the entire idea of irony“The next real literary "rebels" in this country might well emerge as some weird bunch of anti-rebels, born oglers who dare somehow to back away from ironic watching, who have the childish gall actually to endorse and instantiate single-entendre principles. Who treat of plain old untrendy human troubles and emotions in U.S. life with reverence and conviction. Who eschew self-consciousness and hip fatigue. These anti-rebels would be outdated, of course, before they even started. Dead on the page. Too sincere. Clearly repressed. Backward, quaint, naive, anachronistic. Maybe that'll be the point. Maybe that's why they'll be the next real rebels. Real rebels, as far as I can see, risk disapproval. The old postmodern insurgents risked the gasp and squeal: shock, disgust, outrage, censorship, accusations of socialism, anarchism, nihilism. Today's risks are different. The new rebels might be artists willing to risk the yawn, the rolled eyes, the cool smile, the nudged ribs, the parody of gifted ironists, the "Oh how banal". To risk accusations of sentimentality, melodrama. Of overcredulity. Of softness. Of willingness to be suckered by a world of lurkers and starers who fear gaze and ridicule above imprisonment without law. Who knows”― David Foster Wallace, A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again: Essays and Arguments
Reminder that irony is the biggest weapon of the Wyrm.
>>98585549M20 has an entirely different initiative system
>>98585571And then people wonder why they don't take the rules in consideration in many cases.
>>98585567Honestly when I think about it a lot of our cultural problems are caused by irony poisoning and people being unable to let go of petty shit.>How dare they put a black person in my media!As if that’s the biggest fucking problem in the world. Get some perspective. There are literal genocides and corporations enabling the destruction of the human spirit, but no, this takes precedence to you.We need to strive to give a shit about things that matter and topple the structures that control us.
>>98585577From what I've read on the onyx path discord there are weird rules like this in every game and the reason for this is that white wolf writers were unsentient and had no setting bible to even consult so it was just a free for all of ''well if you want me to remove this then this guys has to remove that''
>>98585581A New Reality Is Better Than a New Movie!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC3qu9c4Q3A
>>98585597I like this song. Is nice
>>98584224It wouldn't even have to be all the mages even, just keeping Voormas off of the Euthanatos guys until they're done purifying the Wyrm would be enough.
>>98585614Which of them were trying to do that again? i'm trying to look them up
>>98585614Okay.Let’s assume the vampires, Garou, Fera, Mummies, Mages, and so on were like “Okay. These fuckers have to go. We’ll figure everything else out later.”Could they stop Pentex?
>>98585581Putting browns everywhere IS part of genocide and the destruction of the human spirit though.
What's your latest homebrewed abomination?
>>98585628Honestly yeah, such a massive coalition would clean house really fucking good. Hell we already have an example of how strong a united coalition is at purging shit it's the technocrats
>>98585638>it's the technocratsOh, you mean the Nephandi's #1 patsies and bitches?
>>98585625IIRC Senex is the one leading that particular plan. So probably best to check the Euthanatos tradition books.
>>98585648That too, but I meant more historically. They did have enough cohesion in the very late 90s to pull off Operation Ragnarok and in the modern day generally try to keep the Union from exploding despite the rampant corruption if you read their convention books. It's kind of funny how every convention is like ''Shit bro we need to keep the union apart but this OTHER retard is trying to splinter it and consolidate too much power''
>>98585560>Yeah abruptly dropping plot points has gone so well for multimedia franchises as Star Wars and Halo has shown...I don't know or care all that much about Halo but it's more like how the whole thing sounds like they decided to give up and remove a lot of what made the people's interest.
>>98583722Damn, that bad? Shame, I had heard woofs were the other splat besides vampire eating good from the 20Anniv edition. Shame, I love compilation editions.
>>98585628Don't Pentex already live in fear of the Giovanni finding out just how weak to Dominate their lifespan boosting drugs make all of their senior management?
>>98584843Besides Shinzui and DNA, there’s a Walmart expy and a daycare that makes children well behaved to the point of being disturbing, both those are from Book of the City
>>98585657>They did have enough cohesion in the very late 90s to pull off Operation RagnarokSpeaking of that, what was the full list of assets thrown at the Ravnos ante by the end of things? IIRC the Technocracy was throwing everything and the kitchen sink at him and the other splats were also brawling with his armies of conjured demons.
Cicada's shenanigans resurrect not only the weremoths, but all the Bug FeraNobody has Rage (actually it would be funny if the werebeetles had Rage, and the two auspices were based on rhino beetles and staghorn beetles, and they had a serious rivalry...)But anyway, the eusocial insects, the bees, ants, and termites, get StructureThis is usually just a drive to protect and build, but in their Crawlerling/Flutterling form, it is an actual, physical object being carried by their many bodiesIt's supernaturally tough, it has a lot of soak dice (maybe equal to dots? Possibly a Gift to get more?), but successful attacks can literally knock points of temporary Structure out of the Fera
Are there 13 vampire clans because 13 parasitical families rule us in the real world?
>>98585723No it's because 13 is a great number for fictional bad guys.
>>98585463The day of the locker is coming nerd
Share good CTL stories
>>98585782one time there was a fairy so ugly that everyone died so it killed itselfthe endthe moral is that ugly people should die
Why are Mummy fans so thin-skinned?
>>98585847>fansThere's more than one??
>>98585782My ogre managed to stop a moving train through his absurdly high strength when it came to specifically pushing/pulling. Bit of cartoon logic was involved but a lot of Contracts of Stone operate on cartoon superstrength physics anyway. Basically between Strength Performance and Stone 3, I believe I got his effective strength score for the purpose of push/pull to like... 20 something. Enough to grind a Victorian locomotive to a halt (the train was without a driver and none of us knew how the hell to stop it). This took place after we had a battle on said train (the london funeral train specifically) against an old woman Sin Eater and her Geist, who is also her dead husband. She kept throwing cargo at us and reanimating the cadavers, fun battle.
>>98585663>I don't know or care all that much about Halo but it's more like how the whole thing sounds like they decided to give up and remove a lot of what made the people's interest.Eh tomayto, tomahto. Doing a 180 on a existing plot line would piss off any body.
What are the best anime to watch for inspiration?
>>98585912You could do a lot worse than The Adventures of Lord El-Melloi II
Moths
>>98585938I will not play your visual novel slop.
The reaction to the newest HTP episode kinda makes me sad.I think Matilda and Amanda’s relationship is cute.Plus every single male character in this besides Marckus, Kitten, Boy, Jambles, Stig, and Harry are pug fugly. I can’t take relationships seriously if you look hilarious.Yes I am implying Susu and Jambles are in a bit
>>98586109I mean why else would an Ananasi work with Garou?I headcanon she likes Jambles
I HAVE A DEMON QUESTIONI've started running Demon the Fallen and those rules are a piece of junk, I can't wrap my head around them. Even the most basic shit I argue with my players about and neither of us can find a direct answer in the books.Can temporary faith exceed faith rating? The book says nothing about it, but in torment it says it can, in willpower it says it can't. Faith? Nothing. Can you spend willpower on an autosuccess on an evocation roll? Willpower rules say "on an action", which evocations are, but then the rules before evocation state that you can spend faith on evocation similar to willpower on Attributes - evocation rolls are made with attributes!!!Reading this book is making me madder than any other WoD book I've read. Did the writers write half a book each without talking to each other?At least the first session went well.
>>98586109>>98586119OK Alfabusa.
>>98586122>Did the writers write half a book each without talking to each other?Anon this is literally all the oWoD(and exalted) books, nobody put their foot down and they just did what they want
>>98586123Hey I’m just saying what I’m thinking.Why can’t you have the woof and spider
>>98586109I don't really care about Matilda's romance either way. I don't expect Alfabusa of all people to write a happy straight romance and what we got works well enough to call out Matilda's blatant fucking hypocrisy when I don't care who she's shipped with.It could have used more foreshadowing tho, I can't really remember Amanda's yearning being implied anywhere before this episode, where it became immediately fucking obvious.
>>98584518Am I missing something? They look like scrubs.
>>98586185The stats in top left are for a different enemy.
>>98586171I mean I could detect it.Honestly I wouldn’t really call her a hypocrite?If I’m not mistaken I think it’s implied Remold torturing Amanda set her Rage off
>>98586190I know, I looked up the stats. The only thing that stands out is Blast at 10 dice, which is good but a typical combat focused Garou has 10-15 soak.
>>98585912>tfw there's no werewolf mummy despite the furry disease spreading to JapanYes I know about that one yaoi anime with the guys who are actually wolves who put on human illusions as a disguise. It's just not the same...
>>98586216>werewolf mummySomeone post the Owl pic
>>98586216>>98586220your wish is my command
>>98586216*animeNot mummy
>>98586222What would have changed if Owl didn't pull this bullshit?
>>98586129Yeah, but this case is just on a new level. I'm used to powers that don't work as written, lore contradictions, etc. This book mentions multiple times that the Fallen can boost their attributes with faith (they can't), has two completely different systems for torment-influenced evocations (and then retcons them both in player's guide), has a section stating that fire does aggravated damage 3 pages before stating it's lethal. Usually the core at least works. Here it's borderline unplayable.
>>98586232The Spell of Life doesn't work on Garou, he'd end up wandering the Shadowlands until a living compatriot could find him and tell him that it wasn't working.Of course, that doesn't mean they can't change or adapt the Spell of Life to work on Garou (Interpret this as you will, caerns as a stand-in for the Web of Life makes perfect sense), as Gaia permits certain forms of immortality. Imagine, if you will, a Garou who couldn't truly die, who could father progeny forevermore. The other Fera would throw another hissy fit or as them to share the ritual.
>>98586216What
>>98584488>What are your favorite blends of technology and supernatural horror?Demons, baby.
>>98585405No idea but they have my support for being WoD equivalent of creator of Barbiehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htQJxJ0YWoI>>98586232It ends with the strongest and largest tribe being the Silent Striders, who are extra reasonable because Balance rating requires them to be good people, led by a wise, immortal leader who has his immortal warriors to combat the Wyrm. The garou's population problem is way less of an issue even if other tribes are jelly.Sure, it still wouldn't do shit against Set, who took down Osiris and only got temporarily wounded by a surprise dickshot from Horus, but overall, a way better timeline.>>98586248It does work, Owl (and/or Gaia) is being a bitch"After his First Death, Owl himself came to Wepauwet and told the Garou warrior that this would be the only time he would be ALLOWED to escape the natural end Gaia plans for every living creature. Should he die again...he would be CURSED to wander the umbra as a fleshless spirit...""
>>98586265>Sure, it still wouldn't do shit against SetSet got his ass beaten into torpor by a Silent Strider legend once, he's not untouchable. And besides a steadily growing pile of werewolf mummies would chew through the Setite methuselah stockpile hard enough they'd probably be close to bloodline status by the modern day.
>>98586263>t. biomechanical abomination
>>98586247Try to look at the dark ages book, apparently they remade the whole thing so it works now
I made the Uratha into a Garou splinter tribe
>>98586283You mean Shu Horus? The one that doesn't exist in Mummy, nor Isis Fragments and most likely just Horus who Silent Striders think is one of them? The one that, according to Silent Striders, literally faced a weaker than normal Set?Yeah, Silent Striders aren't going to do shit even with half of them being Mummies.
>>98586216>guys who are actually wolves who put on human illusions as a disguiseArguably a better fit for WoD than furries. Werewolves only suffer from all that kooky spirit and environmentalist stuff.>>98586256Pretty sure he's talking about Wolf's Rain, although I have zero fucking clue what's yaoi about it, besides the visual style, which was fairly common for it's time too iirc.Hell, the not really fat wolf even got himself a hot gf shortly before her getting killed and him getting so messed up that he asks his friend to mercy-kill him.The teenage kid tried to get a human gf, but fucked it up. Kiba had the protagonist syndrome and may have had a thing for the dryad girl.And while Mr. Scarface may've looked like a raging homo, at the time the show came out, every "bad boy" character looked like that, and he certainly qualified as one.Good times.
>>98586306>Silent striders jobbing>Meanwhile Bastet Gods casually 1vX all the Setites, ream them hard, refuse to elaborate and just disappear
>>98585589It does feel like M20 is just the product of Brucato being shoved in a room with nothing but half-remembered fragments of MtA from over ten years ago to work with.
I love Demon the Descent's vibes. Not just the biomechanical angels thing, but also how it really goes for the modern weirdness thing. There's hidden infrastructure everywhere, anything could be part of the God-Machine's plans, a certain arrangement of buildings, subliminal messages in songs, etc.
>>98585695I don't think there's a full receipt for everything that was expended, but I know there were enough spirit nukes chucked at Zapathasura that the Technocracy were worried that they might have accidentally caused the Avatar Storm, and that it might been the equivalent of the Umbra's immune system kicking into overdrive after Bangladesh's Gauntlet was annihilated. There's also a whole network of satellites which were used to orbitally bombard Zapathasura with concentrated and amplified true sunlight. I'm pretty sure that the Union didn't have any on the ground assets there at the time, though.
>>98586341Wasn't there also an etherite retard who went ''hmmm what if I detonate this spirit nuke I just made over here'' too?
>>98586346Xerxes Jones was a Void Engineer who wanted to test if spirit nukes would help clear the Tempest so that the convention would have a better chance of mapping the Underworld. When Enoch was bombed with a spirit nuke by the Smiling Lord, it triggered his own bomb, causing a nasty chain reaction that might have also contributed to the Avatar Storm.So not an Etherite, it's Technocrats all the way down.
>>98586216>no werewolf anime despite the furry disease spreading to JapanYou vir wotch the Bland New Animar and you vir rike it! Brand New Animal, it's okay for what it is, I guess.I've no idea where to even start with the "chimeric shifter" like Michiru though.Some kind of off-label Protean/Vicissitude spirit gift knock-off? Haven't read the awoos' splat btw.
>>98585220The issue with the Children of Gaia is that some of them are too toothless and think that almost every conflict can be resolved non-violently. The truth of the matter is that sometimes, the more violent Garou are right and the only solution to some problems is to kill them.
>>98585695>was throwing everything and the kitchen sink at himHonestly, not much actually. In order the Technocracy used;>Four Solar Mirrors got activated, blocked by Kuei-jin storm cover>A team called Storm Chaser was sent to a suicide mission to try to remove the storm>A satalite worth nukes got dropped, two of them actually hit the Ravnos AntediluvianThen as we know it, the mirrors finally managed to snipe him.They had a lot more shit they could do, considering, if you count the solar mirrors, only 5 Sentinel satellites got activated alongside just a single team who just seems to specialize in supernatural weather events. No spaceships, barely a fraction of their satalites, no more powerful weaponry, no reality stabilizers like the ones they use against Archmages etc.
>>98586361Honestly, if Doissetep didn't explode at the same time with all the Mages and Archmages, it wouldn't have anywhere as bad as it is. Since Avatar shards in the storm is the actual problem.
>>98586381>purchases StormwardenNice metaplot, shame I can just ignore it
>>98586373But it served as a demonstration of the fact that the Technocracy can only deploy so much shit before they do as much damage to the world as the Reality Deviants that they fight, if not so much more.
>>98586341At the very least the largest Celestial Chorus group got knocked down to less than 30 members, a chunk of Euthanatoi got obliterated in the area, World of Rage says hundreds of wolves bit the dust as they fought to cut through all the summoned fodder to stop Zapathusra from surviving that week.
>>98586381Let's face it, White Wolf was just using all of that stuff as an excuse to make the Avatar Storm as a tool to try and force players to play the game how they want. Look at those three points, two out of three of them make it clear that this was a design choice first and foremost.
>>98586395>World of Rage says hundreds of wolves bit the dust as they fought to cut through all the summoned fodder to stop Zapathusra from surviving that week.I love how whoever wrote the original Week of Nightmares story clearly didn't give a fuck about the werewolves.>Oh, I have to include Garou in this too? Uh, okay, I guess we can have this big epic werewolf warrior pissing himself as he and his pack get annihilated by spirit nukes before they get within ten miles of the actual fight.
>>98585693>daycare that makes children well behaved to the point of being disturbing, both those are from Book of the CityIt also changes kinfolk and garou kids into normal people. Gated communities are also weaver proxies.
>>98586395>World of Rage says hundreds of wolves bit the dust as they fought to cut through all the summoned fodder to stop Zapathusra from surviving that week.since the book is open, might as well mention that no one even came close to facing Ravnos. The closest pack just managed to get hit by a nuke and that's it. Otherwise, they were basically dying to the endless amount of spirit and ghost fodder
>>98586415That's what I said, they died to stop the fodder from joining the 3v1
>>98586417franky, I doubt they actually did much because it was literally raining bones and blood and they were outnumbered. those demons/ghost/whatevers weren't joining the main fight anyway
>>98585736In your dreams of impotent rage, dog.
>>98586381Though we should also acknowledge that the Ascension Warrior responsible for wrecking Doissetep was also the product of a Technocracy project that backfired horribly.Like I said, Technocrats all the way down.
>>98586397Yep. It is like Revised authors despised the players of 1st and 2nd Editions. And nost just Achilli.
>>98586430They probably despised a lot of their freelance writers too, because let's not pretend that Mage players just took the game in that direction without any encouragement. Book after book was pumped out directly encouraging Umbral shenanigans before the White Wolf core team reined it in with Revised.
>>98586427Perhaps but Doissetep was a powderkeg already. There is a reason why the most likable guy in the whole chantry is Satyros self-insert.
>>98586445It's not a World of Darkness game without senseless intrigue and infighting.
>>98586420I'd still say they accomplished something like they thought, because>we just spent several years worth of werewolves on one fight and changed literally nothing either wayis a bit too mean spirited for my tastes.
>>98586455It's kind of funny how their fate is just pissing themselves as they get nuked but yeah honestly this just feels like shitting on woofs for no reason lol.
>>98586455>>9858646190% of inter-splat interactions is built on a freelancer who really loves one splat dunking on another splat that he hates or doesn't give a shit about.
>>98586464I wonder, is the utter chaos and clown world nature of everything being written by very opinionated freelancers what gave oWoD its charm?
>>98586470It's certainly one of the reasons, but I wouldn't say that it's the only one.
>>98586461Honestly a quick Jesus Christ at the realisation that not only are you at ground zero for a nuclear bombardment but they're an entirely new form of nuke is hardly shitting yourself.>>98586464Though in this case the dozens or hundreds of wolves dying to make a difference is specifically from a werewolf book but the quick nuke reaction is from the vampire book.
>>98586455>>98586470Several hundred dying is cataclysmic for Garou Nation;the whole Garou Nation is like 10k dudes at most. Straight from Storyteller's Handbook. No wonder woofs are losing.
>>98586475Werewolf freelancers were in a unique position because lots of them got to make up their own Fera which they ended up loving way more than the actual werewolves that the game was about, so they ended up phoning it in whenever they were writing about werewolves instead of their pet Fera.
>>98586485It's a shame we only got spider autists and didn't get any other insect autists. Hornet or millipede shifters would be badass. I saw a guide suggest millipede shifters could have a "replace the wyrm" shtick where they just fucking eat each other in a quest to become powerful enough to achieve exactly that
>>98586488Guy* not guide wtf
>>98586369Thats correct but the overarching issue with society is only going to be solved if we get over ourselves to make the murder of Pentex happen
>>98586488Though the Spider autists were particularly bad with their "we're actually the real preservers of the balance and the Garou were and always have been redundant" shtick. You can smell the authorial favoritism from a mile away.
>>98586499Does that mean the spiders at least accept that the fucked state of everything is their fault or do they still try to blame the wolves?
>>98586502It's more "retarded werewolves won't let us do our job," to the point where in the Weaver Ascendant ToJ scenario, the Ananasi can just achieve a "good ending" if the werewolves just let them do their own thing without interruption and free their queen.Granted, that "good ending" involves Queen Ananasa deleting anything supernatural other than herself and rewriting human brains so that mankind is incapable of sin or desire, but the point still stands.
>>98586509>kill everything else that can compete with her>calcify the world by deleting free willAre we sure Queen Ananasa is any different from the Weaver?
>>98586499>>98586502Their own Breedbook calls them delusional and their chances of fixing the Triat is the same as Get of Fenris adopting pacifism. The Wyrm is making use of them just like he did when he was using them to start War of Rage
The only good ending is to >Kill the entire third generation.>Kill Pentex>Kill the Technocracy>Leave everyone aloneIdk but it sounds like a better idea than most
I will continue to write werewolf yuri simply because it’s existence annoys people in this thread.
>>98586518>Kill the technocracyIf anything you'll probably need them to accomplish the first 2. After that it's mainly an exercise in trying to convince the Utopian technos that total RD death is probably not the way(harder than it sounds, but may or may not be possible)
>>98585912There was that one about a dude infused with oni blood who became assistant whatson to an immortal japanese female sherlock holmes who was only a head because her body was stolen by a brit and then the two went to europe to find her body and solve mysteries and they deal with french noble vampires and swiss werewolf villages and shit and overall it was pretty cash.Maybe I can find it again, wasn't that long ago
>>98586526Kill them last
>>98586522I enjoy it but it is getting silly that everyone is gay or bi. I swear even Door will turn out to be asexual who had sex just to have a kid.
>>98586516Ananasa creates an Earth in which everything is born, lives and dies when and how it is meant to, without any fluctuations caused by an insane Triat.A victorious Weaver rules over an Earth in which everything stops being born or made and everything imperfect gradually withers and dies, until all that is left is a stagnant, dead and unchanging earth frozen in time as a monument to her work.Ananasa's victory is certainly a better outcome, but it's still pretty soulless, hence the "best" outcome in that scenario is a total reboot of Gaia by liberating the Wyrm and destroying the Pattern Web, allowing humanity to keep their free will and start again without mad gods trying to corrupt and influence them.
Will V6 make a reverse dark ages supplement for playing in the distant future with sci-fi implants and such?
>>98586543Yes, they said so at GenCon.
>>98586539I honestly don’t get tired of it because to me it’s not really any different from a straight romance.Only difference is that both participants I find attractive, because dudes are icky and I say this as a dude.
>>98586517Only for ToJ to give them everything that they need to fix the Triat, and they only fail if those meddling Garou happen to stop them. While I'm aware that the ToJ didn't canonically happen, they're official documents for what might occur if the Apocalypse does actually happen.
>>98586563ToJ scenarios aren't consistent with each other. This is why you get things like Caine being the target of the second vamp scenario and straight up dead ages ago in the third one. They're all just concepts in the end.
>>98586518The most awful things about WoD is that each faction that isn't totally evil needs the same things, and some of them even know this. They all seem to have common enemies, but refuse to settle on working for each other. Compromise and Allies, this is what they all need. The exceptions are vampires, who by their nature have no true allies or freedoms. Allies are made via blood bond, the entire world hates them, they hate themselves.
>>98586570The only remotely good vampires are baggers ngl
>>98586571Also the ones who went for Golconda, if only they actually did jackshit to help the world instead of being woodland hobos (or not existing depending on edition).
>>98586109>Matilda and Amanda’s relationshipIf you're a gay living in a big city, you can go to bars to try your luck. But if you live in a smaller place, you have to take some shots in the dark. Amanda saw Matilda waffling and had no idea she was waffling over being a warrior of Gaia. There's no relationship here, just a small town gay taking a chance.
>you can redeem a Samsa, turn them into a true Fera>they still can't step sideways, but when in darkness are able to stand with one foot on either side of the Gauntlet
>>98586570>The most awful things about WoD is that each faction that isn't totally evil needs the same things, and some of them even know this. They all seem to have common enemies, but refuse to settle on working for each other.I'm sure they exist but outside of the technocracy and woofs I can't really name other splats. Salubri would be a good pick if they weren't spreading the curse.
>>98586575I saw it more as someone broken and desperate for attachment latching on to the first person to give her the time of day, in a moment of drunken spontaneity.
>>98586549Wait really? We might get a new near future owod? That actually does soubd cool but...well it's 6th
>>98586122i know i am late but>Reading this book is making me madder than any other WoD book I've read. Did the writers write half a book each without talking to each other?no and it was a serious problem during the end of revised/dark age x, but in this case it's worse than that the main writer and editor for the DtF corebook was hospitalized during development and white wolf being the clown company they used to be did not give the team extra time or a replacement nearly the entire players handbook is just stuff that didn't make it into the corebook because again the lead nearly died and if you can't find what you need there your only option are to go to devil's due or the demon to demon translation guide and port the rules over from there
At least when mages debate politics it can be a little interesting. This culture war bullshit is the same every time.
>>98586799Familiarity breeds contempt.I'm sure if we were subjected to technomantic v. hedge propaganda rhetoric on a regular basis a similar distaste would develop.
>>98584738Janny didn't like some anon posting about how poojeets treat their women and deleted the post. we have actual /pol/-tier shit being spammed right now and janny is busy posting BBC threads on /v/
given that real life wolves are only black if they have dog ancestry, what are the chances that some garou are the result of dogfucking?
>>98586860I don't think that's how Garou genetics workAfter all, there are both RED and GINGER werewolvesLet alone the bullshit being kinain might do
Ok say you are a mage character creation start with arete 3 and right out of the bat a garou pops up and you dont get prep time as you roll first in iniative. How do you win?
>>98586871>Character creationI begin the game with a number of dots in wonder/device that allows me to teleport
>>98586860Bone Gnawers have tried it during their moments of greatest shame, but it has never been fruitful. Hence Bone Gnawers are more disdainful of real, actual dogfuckers than any other tribe.
>>98586860100%
>>98586867I have just now considered that it's possible to create Rias Gremory as a woof with Red Talon Pure Breed 5, the kinain merit...and perhaps Pyrokinesis as a substitute for the power of destructionI will keep these ideas to myself
>>98586842I mean, we debate Anarchism v. Communism v. Fascism v. Neo-Liberalism. The mages stuff is just the metaphor.
>>98586888>Werewolves can be any kind of canine really>even foxes and Australian wild dogs are options!>under no circumstances can you ever play a domestic dogWhy?
>>98586928the domestic part. it's also the reason why bastet can't be of house cat stock
>>98586860It's been a while since I last read the books but I swear I remember that there was some African garou who are African Hunting Dogs instead of wolves.
>>98586967This is explicitly a boon that they get from working with the African Fera.
>>98586361I picture it more like he stormed the Labyrinth in a personal craft dodging relic flak and Inhabit attempts to dunk the bomb in Oblivion's butthole.
>>98587009>ensured the world would be ass-deep in demons for the rest of time even if none of the other apocalypses happenedThanks
>>98586989I'm not surprised.African fera are weird. You've got giant dinosaurs and egyptian cat wizards just to name a few.
>>98587033it's also canon that's the entire place is just "spiritual" in a way that warps the supernatural which is why the laibon have a different morality system from other cainites not even east asia does that in wod
>>98587073Old white wolf writers loved wanking Africa (and Australia)
Do vampires have any way to gain extra health levels, even if they are just temporary ones?
>>98586871Even at chargen its three dots in one sphere of your choice, just fucking melt his brain or summon spirit of his grandfather to punch him in a dick.
>>98587152I only know Huge Size merit.Presumably, you can also gain extra health levels from a custom Viccisitude/Fortitude combination discipline power. Or custom Elder discipline power.
>>98587206>Or custom Elder discipline power.I mean it's downright tame compared to some of the elder fortitude powers doing things like letting you stay awake during the day full time with no blood cost or heal agg damage or treat sunlight as lethal damage.
>>98586109Simply put, I just don't give a shit about the werewolves. I lost the ability to care about side characters some time in episode 5, they've introduced far too many of them. They've made a horridly paced mess out of the plot of this arc, and I've reached my limit in terms of investment. So I really can't bother to care about a new character related to a game I don't care that much about. I'm very much at the point where I want this shitshow to be over with.
>>98586931The domestication of house cats is like: "These animals look at you with 5% less fundamental contempt than their parent species!"
>>98586931Weaver mockery breeds when?
>>98586303I made the Garou into a minor blasphemous cult.
>>98587237Gaia is autistic enough to consider that “Weaver tainted”
Awe vs Entrancement, when do you use which?
>>98586303I often see people say Uratha would be Weaver aligned, due to the whole border patrol thing, but I think they're less Weaverish in many ways. They're a lot less organized than Garou, it's mostly just packs and their territories, the tribes and lodges are more informal. They're probably closer to an uncorrupted Wyrm, where their main job is being the apex predator keeping prey populations in check.
>>98587309>Uratha would be Weaver alignedNever seen that comment ever. Honestly, I'd say that the Forsaken aren't aligned with any of the Triat, they'd be in the thrall of Luna, more than anything else.
>>98584602I’m not a /k/ommando, what’s the issue with this gun?
>>98587323it does a absurd amount of damage/ has a absurd fire rate in comparision to all other guns in the settinga normal assault rifle has a fire rate of 3 this has 25 it's also pretty cheap costing 1 dot in the device background and it's not magical so you can enchant it or add stuff like a infinite magazine to it
>>98587323It's basically a collection of every nogunz meme buzzword from the 90s. Some of the many reasons why it'd suck as an actual gun.>It's firing 7.62x51mm NATO at a rate that's beyond MG42 fast, capable of emptying its entire magazine in a blink. The recoil would be absurd and you wouldn't hit anything. And that's if we assume it can magically feed at a firing rate eight times greater than a standard AR by the game's mechanics. >Caseless ammunition doesn't really work. It has so many logistical issues and struggles with reliability. Without a brass casing to insulate the powder, caseless ammo can chain react and blow itself up.>Electronic ignition system doesn't really make much sense, as even caseless ammo uses a primer (a small explosion to set off a chain reaction).>98% of the rifle being polymer means that almost the entire gun is made of polymer (hard plastic). >There's fucking nowhere to put an M203 on this thing.
>>98587331Wait, does that mean if you get a single success on your attack roll, you make 25 separate rolls for damage?
>>98587323It's a magic item pretending to be a mundane one. It doesn't work
>>98587379full auto rolls are a mess and i personally never played 1e but another anon said a few thread ago when the rifles been a topic that back before they nerfed(for all other weapons it's more of a change than nerf) them in revised it meant you could get up to 25 attack rolls a turn
>>98587323Rate is the maximum number of bullets or three-round bursts the weapon can fire in a single turn, or the number of different actions that the shooter can take with the gun. With certain guns, an action can also be taken to empty the entire magazine with a fully automatic spray.Rate is generally used to represent the rate of fire of a gun and how responsive the gun is, how ready it is to fire again after the trigger is squeezed and the barrel has spat out a round or three.In W20 core, the highest rate of any gun is 4, for the semi-automatic light pistol.In M20 core, the highest rate of any gun is 8, for the 30mm assault cannon.The AS-115 Assault Rifle has a rate of 25, which means that a marksman can shoot with it, on a semi-automatic basis, up to 25 times in a single turn.The issue is that each shot taken requires another action, which either comes from splitting the dice of your action over multiple actions, or acquiring extra actions through supernatural means like Celerity, Rage, Time 3, or cocaine. In almost every game (with the exception of M20 because Brucato is a forgetful retard) these extra actions cannot be split into multiple actions.Which means that outside of M20, there is almost no way in hell that any character would be able to roll the number of dice needed to divide them across 25 different actions and take full advantage of the AS-115's obscene rate of fire, and this gun was designed for WtA 2e, an entirely different edition of an entirely different game.Why does it have such an insane rate of fire? Probably because the author was a retard who had no understanding of the rules and no one bothered to proofread what they wrote.>tl;drThis gun is so insanely efficient that it's almost impossible for any character across any edition of the World of Darkness to take full advantage of its unique capabilities. It's a character optimiser's ultimate puzzle.
>>98587323Its basically vidrel:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEu9LLQpOF8
>>98587323It's basically vidrel:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq2zRjvyg3o
Hunterbros, what do you think is a tremendously underrated weapon or piece of hunting equipment?
>>98585827Just because we didn't save it doesn't mean we're the ones that fucked it.
>>98587671Butterfly net.
>>98587671Drugs are a must-have in Hunter. Just blast whatever you have and hope it gives you an edge. Its not like you have a lifespan to worry about.
>>98587671body cam that streams to a cloud. most supernatural hates being seen nearly as much as being killed and it gives you (and others) the opportunity to study what you fought or send it out as a final post mortum fuck you
>>98587727"Livestream your hate crimes" sounds like a really quick way to get arrested desu.
>>98587671Yeah a bodycam/drone with a camera and a guy at home who records everything
>>98587735that's also means the police is going to come to the scene of the crime! (let's hope they aren't vampire slaves)
>>98586109>>98586195You need to go back, Alfa.
>>98587430>or cocaineGod, I love world of darkness.
So did HtP kill the mothfags or what?
>>98586931>why bastet can't be of house cat stockAnon, Ceilican can.It's how they survived near-extinction.Hell, bubasti are surviving thanks to a domesticated variant of their lupus being kept as ghouls by the settites.
>>98587838no Ceilican's have a gift that allows them to turn into a house cat that is not the same thing
>>98586339"Angels could be here," he thought, "I've never been in this neighborhood before. There could be Angels anywhere." The cool wind felt good against his bare chest. "I HATE ANGELS" he thought. HOT DEMON B!TCHES NEAR U ! ! ! reverberated his entire car, making it pulsate even as the $9 wine circulated through his powerful thick veins and washed away his (merited) fear of horrors after dark. "With a car, you can go anywhere you want," he said to himself, out loud.
>>98586541>A victorious Weaver rules over an Earth in which everything stops being born or madeNot at all. Read the the actual lore anon.Weaver victory means either A.) The umbrae and material are severed, killing both, or B.) The Gauntlet becomes so thick the umbrae travel is impossible and every splat is stuck playing cyberpunk VtM.
>>98587829>So did HtP kill the mothfags or what?Yes.
>>98586289The Dark Ages book is mediocre and doesn't actually retcon anything, because they made the modern mechanics canon to the post avatar-storm era.
>>98587838I thought the Bubasti kin were the same original generation of 5000 year old ghouls? Or is that offbrand because it would make them more genebroken than Silver Fangs?
>>98587829I was just thinking if Mothman and Weremoths should have a connection.Like, maybe the Wyld rescued them from the Weaver?
>>98587901There are many theories as to how the weremoths survived, but I don't think anyone brought up the Mothman outside of using it as a descriptor for a possible weremoth warform.Either way, if the Wyld is the one who saved the weremoths, then the Mothman should definitely be linked to them. If the weremoths are a recent (or recent-ish) revival/reincarnation of their ancient breed, then there's more mystery and a lot can be theorized and crafted to have the Mothman fit with the other ideas other anons have brought up.I would love to see him tied in to the weremoths in some way at the very least.
>>98587865>Weaver victory means either A.) The umbrae and material are severed, killing bothAnd this happens because after the death of the Umbra and its spirits with the thickening of the Gauntlet, anything new stops being made, from new life being born to new ideas forming in human minds, until all that is left is a stagnant, dead and unchanging earth frozen in time as a monument to her work. "The umbrae and material are severed, killing both" is a hilarious over-simplification that refuses to acknowledge what actually occurs in that scenario and why the Tellurian ends up dead and empty.
>>98587829There's like two people who seriously want to make an OC shapeshifter, and their ideas don't really align perfectly. The other mothfags just wanted to post porn under a pretense. Until one of them actually bangs out some rules there's nothing to discuss. The HtP stuff isn't really discussing HtP this point. Half of it's the age old werewolf skub argument and the other half are two people off topic posting about /pol/ shit.
The way some animals have Fera and some don't feels arbitrary.So werespiders and weresharks were thing since prehistoric times but werefrogs and wererhinos didn't exist before Pentex made them?
>>98587960Things would get very silly very quickly if every type of animal (however you want to define it) got a shapeshifter.
>>98587967Wereslugs let's go!
>>98587960because they aren't a natural occurring thing the triach has to decide to make a fera breed and foxes show they could still just do that so it's arbitrary because the triach are idiots and arbitrary
>>98587960It is arbitrary. They're not the product of natural evolution, they're literally made by spirit-gods.
>>98587960YesGaia has decided not to make more shiftersThere are already too many
>>98587688Elaborate.>>98587720Counterpoint: Most drugs that might improve your fighting ability also tend to degrade your decision making skills, and the latter is far more important to a successful hunt than the former. >>98587727>>98587740Being able to go over the footage yourself in post is a good idea, but it's a pretty risky move. If the monster escapes you've got a massive target on you now and it can more easily convince its friends to help kill you.
>>98587957>Until one of them actually bangs out some rules there's nothing to discuss.What if both are shit at crunching numbers?
>>98587986I agree, butterfly nets are pretty elaborate.
I’m working on a fan splat that’s basically Ultraman because that’s cool
>>98587957I still say their alt rage should be pathos. I also think they should have a Wyrm aligned subset called the Black Witches or Death's Head. Or maybe theyre like wraiths where theyre pulled between their own Psyche and Shadow (Wyld and Wyrm). It does kinda mix well with their real world symbolisms of change/growth and death. Unfortunately I dont really feel like I have too much to contribute except for tangential thoughts since im not well versed in wraith or the fera.
>>98587986>Most drugs that might improve your fighting ability also tend to degrade your decision making skillsIf you are a hunter odds are you never had good decision making in the first place.
>>98588024>Just let the supernatural terrorize you, goyNo.
What sorts of geometric patterns would the God Machine favour? I want to be a bit clever with my descriptions to use it as set-up but "the angles seem to be pointing 'somewhere'" doesn't feel like it'd work.>>98586339Same, it just feels like it would be very difficult to run. Having to juggle your various disguises alone sounds like a nightmare, ontop of just how powerful embeds/exploits are. Combine that with espionage and it sounds like way too much work for me to GM.
>>98588050Wires
>>98588008I like your ideas. The Pathos (or Obsession) as the not-Rage is interesting and ties well to what the real-world moths symbolize.Death's Head moths sound cool, so I'd vote for them.
>>98587671For werewolves, figuring out a way to brew something inherently Wyrm-tainted that you can tag a Garou with is a good idea, since if you can mark them with it without them figuring it out, it'll probably cause trouble if they got to a caern or moot while stained with Wyrm taint.
>>98588050Did you know there are cool spirals besides the Golden Ratio?https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_ratio
Never really liked the triple god things. Use real gods/angels or why bother?
>>98587957Here is a start of a write up.Weremoth Design and MechanicsPresumed Lore: Saved by the Wyld just before the Weaver killed them. Thanks to this, their mechanics are a mix of Wyld chaos but also has hints of Ananasi style Weaver influence.Traits:Glamour: Moths do not have Rage but they have a special relationship with the Dreaming and Fae even before the Wyld took them under it’s protection. They have a Glamour pool similar to the Fae. Without Merits or Gifts, it caps at 10. They can regain 1 Glamour everytime they wake up but they can also gain Glamour like Fae.Glamour can;Replace Rage usage in GiftsBe spent to get extra actions (1 Glamour = 1 Extra Action)To start regeneration like Garou (Spend 1 Glamour to have a Regeneration like Garou for a scene)Shift to another form (1 Glamour)Non-Human Homidform: Similar to Ananasi, they have Moth traits in their homid form. Like copper based blood.Rank: The higher the rank, the more elaborate the patterns and symbols of their wings. Auspices: The Wyld intruced her new children to the Celestines. The ones who got fascinated by the Sunlight aka Helios become Solisequus (Sunwatchers/Followers of the Sun). The ones drawns to the moonlight aka Luna become Lunasequus (Moonwatchers/ Followers of the Moon). But there were those who shied away from the light, traumatized by their Creator’s actions and wanted to hide away. They become Tenebrisequus (Darkwatchers/Followers of the Dark).Sunwatchers are vulnerable to gold but regain Glamour and Gnosis at sunrise. Moonwatcher are vulnerable to silver regain Glamour and Gnosis at moonrise.Darkwatchers are not vulnerable to anything but do not gain any regain like the others.
>>98588008>>98588057You have my vote
>>98588083>Use real gods/angels or why bother?The Triat are basically just the Trimurti renamed and repackaged to be more easily consumed by the West. Think of them as Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva if that helps.
>>98588088I like the idea of tying the Auspices to the Celestines and having night and day moths with their respective weaknesses and strengths. Now if you (we?) want to keep Glamour and not change it around, a proper reason as to why the moths are tied to the Dreaming and the Fae needs to be thought up.
>>98588124Nta but do we? Like, Ananasi basically has Blood because...because.
>>98588128Fair point.Besides, this is just the first write up of what the weremoths could look like.
So, what's the end goal for werewolves... exactly? Can't kill the weaver, too important. Can't release the wyrm, too evil. Can't kill the wyrm, see weaver. How exactly could balance be restored? What does restored balance even look like? Is the wyrm really mind broken from endless captivity, or is it actually cosmic justice that humans & werewolves get obliterated for locking it away?
I love cofd
>>98588139Do you have a favorite line?
>>98588137Reducing the strength of both the Weaver and the Wyrm to give Earth another day >But howEven they don't really know.
>>98588137Defeating the Wyrm when it breaks free during the Apocalypse, or releasing the Wyrm in a ritual to stop an ascendant Weaver. The end goal of the werewolves is to do whatever it takes to ensure that Gaia survives the Apocalypse in some shape or form in a preferably healthy and balanced fashion, no matter what form the Apocalypse takes.
>>98588144CTL
>>98588156Here’s a better question:Do you think they could figure out some kind of ritual to purify it?Like, start by taking a piece of the Wyrm’s juice and purifying it
>>98588159Weren't the werehogs capable of purifying wyrmshit? Remember when the Garou killed them ?
>>98588159There is: killing it. The general consensus among the garou (at least those who do think about it) is that if they can kill the Wyrm, he’ll be reborn purified of the madness that makes him evil and Chronicles of the Black Labyrinth all but states this is correct
>>98588124What about...Moths and the Dreaming:The Weaver created each of the Insect Races for a specific purpose. For Moths, that purpose was the calcification of the Dreaming. Because of that Moths were created with the ability to interact with the essence of Dreaming, Glamour. This way, the Weaver dreamed the day the Dreaming was brought under predictable, stable and organized Pattern Web.Unfortunately for her, Moths disagreeed.Thus they can see Chimerical Reality just like any Fae. And similar to how Bastet and Kitsune can learn Hedge Magic/Sorcery. Weremoths can learn Fae Arts but only up to their Ranks. Unlike Fae, they don’t have to fear Bedlam which is curiously a trait they share with Ravnos but unlike Ravnos, they have vulnerable to Banality. Each time they fail casting a Fae Art, they gain a point of Banality. Each point of Banality reduces your permenant Glamour cap 1 until it is removed (There are Gifts and Rites to remove Banality.)
>>98588169Yeah that’s the thing. War of Rage fucked it all up beyond repair
>>98588159The closest thing that they have to that involves the entire Garou Nation plunging into Malfeas and offering up all of their gnosis (and their lives when that proves insufficient) to free the Wyrm from its bondage and the throes of its madness, before it breaks free of its own accord and still consumed by its insanity. It's not guaranteed to be successful, especially since a whole lot of the Wyrm's servants down there want it to remain trapped and insane until it's ready to leave to victory over a dying Gaia.
>>98588182I meant more start small.Take like a minor Bane and just purify it.
>>98587720>Hunters are basically playing low-tech shadowrunI never realized this, but it fucking fits.
>>98588157That's a fair one. Reading through the old Lost books evoke a weirdly warm and nostalgic feeling for me, despite the fact that I didn't know about it until high school. I've got a session of Lost tonight, actually. Being completely honest, I've had some mixed feelings about the chronicle. It can feel like we're just going through the motions a lot of the time. I don't dislike the game per se, but it hasn't really been what I was hoping for when we started.
>>98588093repackaged would imply undertanding, they are more of a distorted echo.
>>98588169deserved honestly
How could one play Flowery from Deltarune? In OWoD?I assume he’s a changeling because Deltarune seems pretty CtD coded.
>>98588176I like it
>>98588176>Weremoths can learn Fae Arts but only up to their Ranks.First off, this directly contradicts the lore that anyone with glamour is incapable of the first change Period.You're either of the Dreaming or Gaia/the Triat, NEVER both.And this is also where it goes from interesting to powerwank bullshit. Changeling arts are overpowered. Lets set asside Naming and look at the other bullshit they can do:>Give themselves unlimited dice, hlamour, and willpower with contract>Animate entire city blocks and order them to attack people with wayfare>Use sovereign to order any magic used against them to bow before it's queen and go back to execute the traitorous knave that cast it>Lock any magical effect into place for decades with Kronos, even effects that should only last a sceneFera have enough power with their gifts. They don't need access to fairy magic.
>>98588205Ehhhh feels more Lost
>>98588205He starts out as a mundane flower elevated to a new level of being due to the dark world's blessing. That almost feels like some kind of wereplant. Gaia and some incarnate spirit of darkness create creatures split between craving the light to feed, and only knowing intelligence in the dark. Changelings would probably requires way less work though, you're right. Do changelings always have to have a fey form and a human form? Can an animal or plant pupate into a chrysalis?
>>98588169A part of me wonders how much of the werehog extinction was because of war vs pork being delicious.
>>98588225Flowery isn't really stolen away and tormented like humans in Lost. He awakens to something greater, not turned into something lesser.
What relation does every splat have with Cyberspace, barring Mage because we already know? Both old and new WoD.
>>98588088>>98588124Weren't we changing glamour to Pathos last thread? The obsession angle fit pathos more and fit the theme of them reviving from the dead.
>>98588221>You're either of the Dreaming or Gaia/the Triat, NEVER both.Gaia & the trio are spirits, just like the fey spirits that make changlings.
>>98588186It’s definitely something that you could write a chronicle about and if it is proven to be possible on a large scale, it could reshape the Garou Nation’s approach. Even if it is extremely difficult and not replicable on an industrial scale, werewolves would still try to use it for key spirits of vital importance, like corrupted totems.
>>98588251I guess? >>98588088 was simply the first to write anything and they included Glamour instead of Pathos.
>>98588253>Gaia & the trio are spirits, just like the fey spirits that make changlings.Fae aren't spirits, they're Fae. You can turn a spirit into a Fae according to dark ages, but that removes everything that used to make them a spirit.If you want fairy moths, them make them a fae kith and remove any access to gists and gnosis.
>>98588247>vampires: nosferatu have sewer data centers power by rat treadmills. Tremere are half Mages, so they walk through the internet and make fun of Mages sometimes.>Hunters: they have Hchan where they share tips & tricks>Werewolves: it's all tainted Weaver shit, but some people specialize in it as a tool.>everyone else: doesn't need it
>>98587671Explosives of all sorts. It doesn't matter whether you're making a car bomb, blowing up the main gas pipe in section 8 or need a homemade grenade, explosives are always good. They draw a lot of attention but they get the job done. As for tech, actual surveillance equipment is always nice to have. Knowing is half the battle.
>>98588278>some peopleJust say Glass Walkers bro.
>>98588266>Fae aren't spirits, they're FaeThis probably broke a few anons brains from the revised+ era. Revised really fucked a lot of lore by retconning a lot of things as "actually spirits" or "actually just the umbra", when 2e had a lot more than just Mundane Earth and Umbra to travel too. The are still a lot of things after revised that didn't get the retcon hammer, but most people don't read enough to know that.
>>98588221>First off, this directly contradicts the lore that anyone with glamour is incapable of the first change Period.That's a non-issue and you are sounding like that one Revenant section where you should never have a Revenant Awaken.Lore gets contradicted all the time in WoD. Like how in first edition and second Malkavians were capable of going to the Arcadia despite it being impossible for Changelings. Or how Haight was basically a Mage and how Crusader's Sword means there is probably a super Order of Reason Mage with like 5 different splat powers.>And this is also where it goes from interesting to powerwank bullshit. Who cares about that? Changelings arts being overpowered didn't even matter for CTD. When was the last time you saw Changelings do something in World of Darkness?
>>98588278Specifically the Random Interrupts camp of the Glass Walkers are the computer specialists of the tribe.>>98588300Some homids of other tribes are also techy.
>>98588308Oops, my bad. I mixed up the swords. It was suppose to be The Conquistador's Sword
>>98588139>>98588157For me it's Vigil.
>>98588308>>98588314>Tried to use Height as an example of what's acceptableLol.LMAO even.
>>98588229I know that you can have sentient plants in WTA thanks to Kami. Though I know not much about them.Flowery entering Omega Flowery thanks to the power of friendship sounds a lot like a use of Dragon’s Ire art, invoking the spirit of his friends as a bunk. I don’t think that changelings can inhabit anything other than a human body, because they tied their souls to them (do animals and plants have souls in WoD?). I know that there exist changelings that are part plants, but they only awaken from humans. Perhaps Inanimae?
>>98588247>>98588278Don't forget Nosferatu V-Tubers and Setite e-thots. I bet they're behind onlyfans
>>98588310>Some homids of other tribes are also techy.Yes but it's the Glass Walkers who as a whole specialize in tech.
>Ecstatic mage using sissy hypno and HRT to cast spells
>>98588337THE WEAVER IS PROCESSING OUR FORESKINS INTO RUBBER BANDS!OFFICE STATIONARY ARE SECRETLY GREMLIN-BEASTS AND THEY ARE STEALING MY FOOD OUT OF THE COMPANY FRIDGE!
>>98588371Who let the Marauder into the thread?
>>98588176Adding to this."In each Moth, there is a Fae soul mixed into the spiritual makeup of the Weremoth. These were created through the Nature Fae born from the primordial dreams of Nature during the Fomori Era. Thus as long as Nature exists and it dreams, Weremoths are able to manipulate and enter the Dreaming. As a side note. Weremoths half flesh side protects the Fae portion of their souls from cold iron...unless they have any Banality in them. In which case they are as vulnerable to Cold Iron as any Fera is vulnerable to Silver/Gold"Kinda like the True Black Hand style. They have a fae part to them that makes the Glamour and the Dreaming stuff possible. They are closer to Half flesh, half glamour than, half flesh, half spirit of the normal Fera.What do you guys think?
>>98588390Honestly anon I'm not too sure on the fae arts stuff. I like the pathos idea a bit better
>>98588353For computer science, only the Random Interrupts camp. Otherwise, they’re very general tech and human society specialists.
>>98588376THE WEATHER REPORT IS WRONG ON PURPOSE!SUPER MARKET TROLLEYS HAVE HIDDEN CAMERAS!ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE ARE DISGUISED WARDLINES WRIT ON NATIONAL SCALES!COFFE WENT EXTINCT IN WW2, ALL MODERN COFFEE IS SYNTHETIC AND DERIVED FROM CRUDE OIL!
>>98588390A pretty cool fae angle
>>98588397I personally think this entire argument, and indeed most of its nature, stems from a refusal to acknowledge the individual.Anyways. Amenti vs Arisen
How did we get here from gay werewolves?
>>98588440I blame Alfabusa.
>>98588440HtP brought some newfags who feel very particular about certain topics.
>>98588424>coffee went extinct Wait, really? Please reveal me the meaning of this, mad seer
>>98588442>>98588445I just wanted to talk about moths
>>98588440An ever escalating orouboros of shenanigans
>>98588440WoD was made by a bunch of well meaning, but ignorant, straight white people before the internet was really usable. So, there's a lot of bigoted tropes and pro-queer subtext.
Anyways, do you ever do romance?I do
>>98588411Sorry I missed your post because of all the...other stuff in this thread.I think I can write a Pathos version of the Moth. It kinda feel redundant with Rage. Like, Pathos is the passion and emotion harvested. That's a bit too close to Rage itself in my opinion.I would love to hear your thoughts about it Pathos version though, to see if I can contribute.>>98588461Preach
>>98588433>Amenti vs ArisenI'm pretty meh on both. Assuming you mean Amenti as in the Revised mummies, I'm not a big fan of essentially creating Primaris Mummies in a vain attempt to make people care about Mummies. The original oWoD mummies were fine for what they were, a minor splat. Not really outstanding, kind of just a Sorcerer+, but fine. Arisen on the other hand are a really cool idea that unfortunately suffers from a pitfall many nWoD/CofD splats fall into, which is the "I can only play one kind of chronicle with this" dilemma. I also think it's held back somewhat by its unintuitive power system and decision to have it not actually be couched in actual ancient egypt, but in a weird global egypt-coded precursor civilization. I suppose if I had to choose I'd learn Arisen because at least it has some unique ideas (your supernatural potency starting at 10 and ticking down is really cool) and could be refluffed somewhat.
>>98588265I think right now its split between Glamour moths and Pathos/Obsession moths.I lean towards Pathos because it ties well with the theme of them going extinct and gives them ties to the Wyrm/Oblivion which can help flesh them out a bit. There is also a Wyld spirit called Passions that have a charm called Draw Pathos so there is already some built in mechanics to work from.Again, just tangential thoughts. Im always happy when I can meaningfully contribute to the general beyond just baking bread or trying to find sources for other anons. The moth discussion has been fun.
>>98588474Define romance. Are you talking about characters being in love being a plot point, or are you talking throwing waifu-bait at the players?
I just wanted to have a guide on how to play FloweryAnd I like reading about the mothsCan we leaf the rest behind?
>>98588482I actually do like Pathos more because I feel like Werewolf and Wraith could benefit from having some connective tissue between them. The idea of half-spirit people who don't have any interaction with actual ghosts is kind of weird when you stop and think about it.
>>98588526The one time we got any splat that connected the two was KotE, and they got nuked by the retcon hammer.
Oh wow, thread was closed for a bit.>>98588504>I just wanted to have a guide on how to play FloweryI thought a bit more about your question. Thallain fits fine like I said but maybe Nightmare Bucolic Lycians would fit better.Up to you.
>>98588536Sorry, forgot the pic.
>>98588368>hrt>not using mushrooms to change genders with life 3 by hallucinating yourself as a woman/man (or both at the same time)
>>98588532I don't think the justified hatred for KotE was because it connected werewolf and wraith.It's because it tried connecting Werewolf and Wraith while being a part of neither of those splats but was instead grafted onto Vampire, geolocking them out of a region of the world.
>>98588546>Needs mushrooms to hallucinateSchizophrenic mages Laugh.
Honestly at this point it feels like the moths should have two Aspects that are "Glamour" and "Pathos" with each focusing on different thingsProbably have the Glamour moths be vulnerable to cold iron and the Pathos ones to something else?
>>98588550>geolocking them out of a region of the world.Kote didn't do that. Vampire have Always been geolocked from east asia starting from 1e. The reason for it changed from edition to edition, but it was always a constant.
>>98588447DURING THE BOMBING OF BRITAN HIGH PRIORITY FIGURES WERE KILLED WITH UNACCEPTABLE FREQUENCY! THESE LOSSES COULD NOT BE TOLERATED AND WERE TREATED WITH FULL BODY TRANSFUSIONS OF CONCENTRATED COFFE BEAN ESSENSE COUPLED WITH DARK ROASTED MAGICKS OF REINVIGORATION!REPEATED APPLICATION CAUSED UNFORESEEN METABIOLOGICAL VOLATILITY AND KICKED OFF AN ARMSRACE OF PSUDO-TRANSCENDENCE!IN THE AFTERMATH BRITISH ROYALTY TRADED THEIR EMPIRE TO RETCON COFFE FROM HISTORY!REPLACED WITH COFFEE, A INCOMPARABLY INFERIOR, AND DEGENERATIVE SUBSTITUTE!
>>98588554...Huh. Maybe the Sunwatchers and Moonwatchers get Glamour but the Darkwatchers go to the way of Pathos?For context: >>98588088
>>98588496Neither?Just like, this.A Lostling and an Uratha become lovers
>>98588554>the Pathos ones to something else?Pathos moths could have fetters. If weilded against the moth, they ignore soak like silver, but destroying them Also hurts the moth by removing a permanent dot of gnosis(since living things don't have corpus).Moths have 1 fetter per permanent dot of gnosis.
>>98588482I'm leaning towards Pathos, partly because I like the idea that all the Bug Fera came back because Cicada was able to do some shenanigans when several species of cicada had their mating seasons line up and "sang loud enough to wake the dead"
>>98588536>>98588540But why Thallain or Nightmare? Flowery from Deltarune (and not Flowey from Undertale) is a good guy that wants to help Asgore and fulfill the wishes of all the flowers that he took care of.Lycians sounds spot on though. Can you play them? What are the rules?>>98588554I suggest that we make the two variants, put them on a playtest fanbook and have people here and elsewhere try it and give their opinions. That would settle if we should only make one, or both.
>>98588572>britbong kings erased coffe from reality because it was too powerful No wonder they were the ones who remade the Order of Reason into the Technocracy, they truly hate wonder and human transcendence
>>98588579I wish I was an artist because I kinda wanna draw that now
>>98588578Yeah that would work I think>>98588582Dunno if fetters would work like this for the Pathos moths but theres and idea somewhere there>>98588594I personally dont like the idea of cicada being the one behind the resurrection of the moths (or even all the other bugs) but the cicada could be tied to the Pathos moths pretty easily>>98588610That certainly an option
>>98588579That's not really a game related thing, that's a writing prompt. When you're asking if someone "does" romance, I'm assuming you mean when playing in or running a game.
Some Pathos moth ideas (from previous threads mostly)>Pathos moths dont have access to homid form and are in glabro or hispo equivalent forms>Pathos moths work to break stasis so things can move on (think time-capsuled homes and such that are forcefully held in the exact same condition as they were left as)>cannot step sideways without going to flitter/flutterling form (their equivalent of the crawlerling form) and must "eat" through the gauntlet
>>98588564First draft of chinkpires were lore stubs following VtM rules. And that's assuming people knew about them, which most probably didn't. It's easy to write around or ignore, especially with Africa getting still Kindred treatment. But KotE came in and said there's an entirely different splat that means no vampires of any kind allowed in east asia. So people rightfully shit on it. It's like if Mage declared there were no Mages in the Netherlands because the Changelings keep them out of it. It's silly and unreasonable to make people tolerate a completely different splat in their splat. Thus, KotE got a lot of hate. Hate that I'd say was justified. WW should've put it out as its own thing, or attached it to Wraith since it has more in common with it. But instead it's this weird pygmy shit attached to VtM, and both were worse off for it.
>>98588128The Ananasi have blood because spiders 'drink' their prey by turning their insides into slurry.That's not wholly correct but it's the pop culture interpretation and WoD is all about that.
>>98588645Glamour moth ideas>Glamour moths have access to homid form but its "off" like the Ananasi homid form isI admit I didnt have a good idea for what Glamour moths could do but>Glamour moths work to enrich the world with wonder and light and mystery and secrets>cannot step sideways without going to flitter/flutterling form but they "slide past" the pattern web instead of eating it
>>98588645>>98588694Pathos moths would work more in the shadows and the Umbra and frequently meet Wraiths and other departed (are there other versions?) while the Glamour moths live mostly amongst humans and deal with the fey a lot
>>98588632Fair. I guess I want that
>>98588610I was mostly thinking of Undertale when I suggested Thallain or Nightmare Lycian.Yes, they are playable. Here is the Bucolic Lycian stuff.Honestly, Lycians as a whole are basically Darkners but for everything
>>98588742The third rank gift thing is probably the worst thing the wod writers could have ever revealed. A Lot of 3rd rank gifts are very poorly balanced.
>>98588742>With the fact that Ananasi have blood based gifts and kinfolk can potentially learn up to 3rd rank gifts when not artificially restricted by social pressure to 1st rank only, could an ananasi Ghoul use the 3rd rank blood pump(remove cap on spending blood per turn) and tick body(max blood pool becomes 15) gifts with vampire blood?This is a thing?
>>98588745https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE-TNxzdLmc&pp=ygURRmxvd2VyeSBhbmltYXRpb24%3D&ra=m>Urge to play a CTD x Deltarune game rising
>Change is Good>Glamour is Free>Honor is a Lie>Passion before DutyWhoa, nobody told me the Unseelie were Based.
>>98588795>This is a thing?ST call. Ananasi "Blood" and vampire vitae aren't necessarily the same thing, but they're both forms of congealed magic energy, because human "Blood"(Chi) itself is what powers both.
>The Ecstatic loads up Horny Asian Moms Vol. 7, as he prepares to smite his Hermetic rival
>>98588795No.Firstly because the Ananasi's kinfolk don't seem to matter, or possibly even exist. I don't have the breedbook to hand atm but considering how numerous spiders are and how often Ananasi live ordinary human lives with ordinary families, it'd be safe to assume that their kinfolk are so diluted that they're not special at all.Even beyond that, Ananasi gifts are only given by Ananasa. There's no way for a kinfolk to ever learn it unless Ananasa wants them to, and if she did, they'd just have been born a werespider to begin with.Secondly, Ananasi blood explicitly isn't consumed for vitae and thus doesn't function as such.Thirdly, Ananasi can't be ghouled. Their kinfolk might be able to be but, well, refer to point the first.
>>98588879>Firstly because the Ananasi's kinfolk don't seem to matter, or possibly even exist.Ananasi have kinfolk just like every other breed(Source: kinfolk unsung heroes and kinfolk a breed apart).Ananasi can also learn gift from other breeds and can teach other breeds their gifts. This is explicitly mentioned in the gift section of their breedbook.An ananasi kinfolk can learn gifts if ananasa tells them to.
>>98588923>Ananasifag instantly slaps down sourcesAnons must remember to tread lightly around the spider-fuckers, they're All autistic.
>>98588939The autism just shows up differently in different spidefagsSpeaking of what do you think the ananasi storyfag is? Kumoti?
>>98588939>they're All autistic.As expected of Weaver’s grandchildren.
>>98588852Misread it for a second and ended up coming up with a Mind rote that makes a mental image of a tiger mom torment the target and make them unable to fully focus (effect: for <n° of successes> turns affected target can only succeed rolls if all rolled dice succeed)
>>98588950One of the good ones.And I am saying it not because I am racist but because Ananasi are shitty people.
>>98588950>Kumoti?I'd say Kumoti Viskr specifically, so Almari Aliquid. Anon is creating for the simple joy of creation.
>>98588973>Ananasi are shitty people.Not necessarily. Not being emotional is not the same thing as being amoral. A lot of very shitty people let their emotions rule their every decision.An ananasi could very much be a good person, the only requirement is that the decide to make good choices.
>>98584488The god emperor of mankind
>>98588939They also benefit from only having like three real sources across one and a half editions to scour through, it's not unreasonable to actually know all the Spooder lore.
>>98589009That's true of every breed except garou. You don't see this same autism in gurahl fans for example.
>>98588991Thing is, good choices for emotional people and good choices for those without them are completely different stuff. Ananasi are perfect tools for Ananasa but they are mostly shitty people. That isn't even including the fact that Ananasa can just make you do stuff against your wishes.There is a reason why the part after that section has "You obey Ananasa because you obey Ananasa. Hesitate and you will suffer most painfully."
>>98589033Interesting how the ananasi storyfag has made Ananasa seem far more reasonable and whats shown here
>>98589040It is a story. It could be anything from her being nicer in that story to her pretending to be nicePick your poison
>>98589033>"You obey Ananasa because you obey Ananasa. Hesitate and you will suffer most painfully."And then Ananasa is surprised when some ananasi figure out how to make their own web and become immune to her control as Kumatai.
>>98589040Considering the MC is obviously being given some special exclusive attention that is being kept hush-hush from the elders? 100% intentional.
>>98589033The book almost seems to try to make them more psychotic than they actually are.It's also mentioned that the Ananasi have social lives, pop in to chat to one another, raise families, are capable of being good, caring parents, and a lot of them might go a very long time without ever being called on to do anything major (though, obviously, your chronicle wouldn't feature such people). The Ananasi take cute little vacations where they go into crawlerling across a large area to be spiders for a while and relax.They also might kill and cannibalise people because they're hungry. They'll kill a family if a superior orders them to - even if they can QUESTION those orders, which is "their right", they can't disobey. But, conversely, they do need to know. "Throw yourself in front of a bus" is not a valid order.You can interpret this as the writers maybe wanting them to be worse than they could be, or that the Ananasi are some kind of psychopaths; they're going to default to being nice because it's easier, but they're also able to 'turn it all off' when they need to, and they have a higher purpose that will require them to.>>98588923Oh hey two more things to add to the spider reading list. Where else are scraps of lore for our eight legged friends found?
>>98589086>Where else are scraps of lore for our eight legged friends found?Book of the WeaverRage across the HeavensWerewolf Players Guide Second Edition(same edition as breedbook)Guardians of the Caerns
Wow, did every anon get eaten in the recent pattern spider correction?
>>98589259I just don't have much to say right now. Already brainstormed enough for weremoths and talked about Lycians.Tomrorrow I will be going to Coyote vs ACME so I might talk about Werecoyotes aka Nuwisha. Or brainstorm more about Weremoths
>>98589259my group's game started
>>98589259It's the weekend dude, people are gonna be out or in with friends, family etc.
>>98589259I was busy cleaning up my apartment because I might move out, and asking about Flowery.Listening to his theme really helped me staying energized doing all those chores
>>98589280That would be more persuasive if the last few months didn't see this thread outperforming the warhammer threads in posts per minute. If there's 30 minutes without a post, Something big happened.
>>98589040>>98589076I wonder if the MC will have the empathy flaw given he's a reincarnated human.
>>98589259Enough shitposting for now, the designer is pleased.
>>98589086>They'll kill a family if a superior orders them to - even if they can QUESTION those orders, which is "their right", they can't disobey.Sure, I'll roleplay a Bateman-style psychopath who will kill an entire family on orders from his superior. AFTER I roleplay a month of investigating that superior for any kind of incompetence or corruption.
>>98588923>Ananasi can also learn gift from other breeds and can teach other breeds their gifts. This is explicitly mentioned in the gift section of their breedbook.I just assume any Fera can learn any non-affinity Gift unless their lore specifically says otherwise, like with the Nagah.
The most horrific part of WOD is that the solutions to a lot of the fundamental problems are so painfully obvious but nobody wants to admit it because it means admitting they’re wrong.
>>98589560Fera can only learn out of breed gifts up to 3rd rank, this is from the 2e adventure book Past Lives for WtA and repeated in WtA changing breeds.
>>98589652So, exactly like real life?
>>98589710Yes but this time they’re magic!
>>98588645>>98588694>>98588722Opinions on these?
>>98586488>millipedehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQixwoQGZbg
Recently replayed Wolf Among Us.God I wish this is what Dreaming was ngl
>>98586528Was it Sirius the Jaeger or Undead Girl Murder Farce?
>>98586539>be asexual who had sex just to have a kid.Just as the Bible instructs!
>>98586575In 2004, bumfuck UK?Honestly, my biggest gripe with Forced Faggotry: The Pandering is how Brokham Brickhead Blacklaw's yet to sling a single slur at the sodden saps he stoops so low to slander and sass
>>98588139Eleanor RigbyPicks up the rice in the church where a wedding has beenLives in a dreamWaits at the windowWearing the face that she keeps in a jar by the doorWho is it for?
I don't care if it hurtsI wanna have controlI want a perfect bodyI want a perfect soulI want you to noticeWhen I'm not aroundYou're so fuckin' specialI wish I was specialBut I'm a creepI'm a weirdoWhat the hell am I doin' here?I don't belong here
>>98588205He needs something that lets him stitch some fake stuff (and stats) together through bullshit fuelled by pure hopes and dreams which is probably Changeling.
I decided that I'm going to try and run a game for a couple of friends online, and I was trying to find the general scale of power that the beings of WoD have compared to each other but I seem to have lost the image that I once found online. Does anyone have an image showing the general scale of power? I remember the one I saw before had like Caine at the far right of it along with things like angels and shit.
>>98590410>thinner!>happier!>more productive!>comfortable!>a pig>in a cage>on antibiotics!
>>98590448The Naming art seems like a close match funnily enough
What kind of relatively high gen vampire do you think would fare best if forced to fight werewolf elders head on?(It's fine if it's 8th gen or thereabouts, but point is the answer should not be 'a Methuselah')Given Jam Technology can stop firearms from working, I'm guessing that the best approach might be a large burst of melee damage instead of trying to shoot and keep away? Werewolves are melee monsters just by default, but from what I understand vitae expenditure is a bit more efficient than Rage for extra actions.Maybe a True Brujah? Getting Jackhammer Punch to add Temporis to your Potence could help ensure a very powerful initial blow, and they can still get True Celerity with the Merit. Although werewolves have enough soak that they might be able to survive even 10 flat damage plus Strength rolled damage, and turn you into paste immediately afterwards. Anything else that should be added?Thinking about it, just how much silver would be necessary to make Brawl attacks ignore werewolf soak? Silver rings? Brass knuckles with a silver coating?If being ambushed from the Umbra is a concern, that might be solvable with Quickened Instincts or Guardian Vigil, which means at least one dot of Auspex too.Anything else that would be necessary to tilt the odds in the vampire's favor, any counters for common werewolf Gifts perhaps?Or is going hand to hand with a werewolf as if you were Nines the completely wrong approach when it comes to veteran ones? Would something else like investing deeply on Dominate Dementation and Presence mental attacks be better?
To the anon here that's running a west marches werewolf game, how are handling XP?
>>98590507>the next step in fursona!*>*dragon dildo sold separately
>>98588645>>98588722>>98588722Umbra is incredibly hostile to Moths, they should exercise extreme caution, or they'll hear the autistic screeching of pattern spiders.Pathos Moths seem like the best way, glamoths could be the more "grounded" kinfolk or something.Lose on the mystic power, but gain on the social power of having a homid form.Maybe something about channeling the Wyld and/or Balance Wyrm.They seem fairly anti-Mad Weaver, with perilous obsession and change/rebirth symbolism baked in.Really like the idea of them spinning a cocoon in a haze during their first change.As for how they came to be, do they really need to have ONE story of origin? Can they not have more?I have that funny thought that they'd have multiple stories of how they came to be/survived being crushed by the Weaver.None of them are wrong, but not all of them have to be true either. Like some kind of living paradox, a glitch in reality that refuses to be "corrected".I think, rather than Delirium, their warform (if they even have it) should cause the opposite - a painful revelation of reality's true structure.Like dialed-up post-nut clarity, mixed with mystical awakening, which the Moths cause in those looking upon them.An unkind revelation that is mercifully forgotten when they're no longer observed.
>>98588278>so they walk through the internet and make fun of Mages sometimes.That's the Malkavians' job IIRC.
>>98586488>just fucking eat each other in a quest to become powerful enough to achieve exactly thatThe Ananasi get the blood points, but the milli-Fera get the diablerie
>>98590583The optimal solution for werewolves is one-handing a dragon-breath shotgun while you speed away in a motorcycle. They're fast, but not that fast.Failing that, use Dominate or monies and get 51+ (past the delirium threshold) mercs with shotguns to hose 'em down.Fighting a werewolf "head on" is playing into the werewolf's strengths, and ignoring your own as a vampire. They're murderhobos-supreme, your job is to make the fight as unfun for them as possible.Also, consider explosives.
>>98588278>Tremere are half MagesDESU they do kinda out mage the actual mages
>>98590583Steal a klaive. It wouldn't just be effective, it'd be funny. Just be aware that sometimes the spirit inside a fetish can enforce taboos and curse the weapon if they're broken, and sometimes those taboos are things like "only Ahroun may use me." But probably you can use a klaive without issue
>>98590887in what way?
>>98590583Technically the optimal way is that the werewolves should have to fucking work for it to even tell a ghoul is behind the attacks let alone a vampire, or at least if you are cam. Sabbat can just send shovel head waves, since RAW that werewolf in bloodlines should be easier than some of the other fights but they wanted a narrative event
>>98590583A silver knife and celerity 3-4 ish will let most vamps win against a Garou, mechanically speaking. In an outright brawl. If you don't have silver uh... celerity 4-5 + Fort 5ish + Potence 5ish and voila, about as strong as a woof in a straight fight.
>>98590891Not counting Tremere himself with his plot device, a 7th gen tremere is going to be a better spell caster than the majority of mages to live, then by 5th gen they can just dunk on any mage that can exist on earthPC level vampires generally will get out done by 4 dots in arete unless they power game and 5 dots dunks on 8th gen vampire
if xmen existed in the wod idea time:-ghouls and kinfolk can be mutants. sometimes this flips the power balance.-logan and victor are technically silver fangs. graydon is a garou with a bone to pick with his daddy-magneto was tortured by the get of fenris. the brotherhood is thus less anti human and more 'kill all dogs'.-vampires temporarily get mutant powers if they consume mutant vitae-weapon x was a product of the technocracy that went to shit when logan went berserk
>>98590908Expand the fuck out of this!-Hulk is what the uncorrupted Wyrm should be, a natural disaster in the form of a green giant. Most of the Garou Nation hates him, but some befriend him.-Blade is an actual dhampyr, and Morbius a Nosferatu that didn't die first.-Doom is a technocrat that broke off to rule Latveria.-Thor hates the Get of Fenris, knowing what the actual Fenris is like.-Punisher is a Hunter; he only targets monsters but people think he's a murderer.-Werewolf By Night is a non-Red Talon werewolf who fights for Gaia but also actively helps people.
>>98590902The majority of tremere are not 7th gen, and I dunno the power of the average awakened but I always put it at 2-3 arete with a sphere or two at 3 and a few others at 2 and 1, going by official NPC statsheets and how not that amazing mages are described. E.g. the Order of Hermes rank advancement thingy that says Arete 3 is reached by most within a few years, whilst those who reach 4 reach it in a decade.Would a 7th gen tremere beat an arete 3 mages at "maging" ? Eeeeeeeeeh. Rituals are finite, in the end. The mage can come up with infinite things he's allowed to do on the spot, no issue. So I'd say the 7th gen is pretty handily outmaged.This doesn't really change for 5th gen, because they're.. not really better mages? They just got more level 5 rituals and more dice to roll. Meanwhile a mage has essentially infinite rituals from the get go.Now, as for combat. Idk. Like if you were facing a hermetic chargen and he's got prime 3 forces 3. If he goes first and throws a vial at you (to make his fireball coincidental), brings the difficulty on his roll to 3 via quint or whatever (many ways, trivial for a mage) and he rolls 3 dice. That's gonna be 2.5 succs on avg, +1 forces, 1wp for 8HL agg if he's rolled merely 2 succs. Aka a very likely turn one instakill for anybody who hasn't prepared for this very specific scenario and can thus soak agg(and hope they didn't prepare specifically for fire, because the hermetic can do any element..)He's also likely got one or multiple defensive rituals up, because why wouldn't he?
>>98590930Can a Garou fight the Wyrm but also actively a sort-of superhero? Stopping robberies, saving people from fires, that sort of thing?
>>98590886>get 51+ (past the delirium threshold)That has been thrown around in the past but that isn't a thing. At least, no sources have ever been given.
>>98590954>Can a Garou fight the Wyrm but also actively a sort-of superhero?People often make fun of vampire for being superheroes with fangs, so yeah.Make your own justice gang. With fleas and hookers.
>>98590908Why would Get of Fenris torture Magneto? They aren't the kind to torture, just straight up kill people. >>98590930Hulk is literally a product of THe One Below All, the Wyrm at it's finest. Gamma Radiation is it's mystical corruption. (Which ironically makes sense as the Wyrm's corruption is the Radiation as a whole).Get of Fenris also pays respects to actual Gods, though.
>>98590954Sure, but keep in mind a lot of the stuff that a superhero might react to, is stuff that is hard to identify and respond to in real time. I'm pretty sure you're thinking about how a werewolf can soak and regenerate, maybe taking advantage of Fair Glabro to do so without scaring innocents. I think being half-spirit would actually be at least as big an asset. Think about spirits of civics and justice, spirits of specific neighborhoods, that you can build rapport with, and you can use as informants. Remember that if you kill a spirit, the thing it's associated with in the real world crumbles. Go into the Penumbra of a bad neighborhood, geek the local Jaggling of Addiction, and a lot of drug dealers are going to find it harder to keep customers. Also definitely be a Philodox.
>>98591062cause the Get are nazilike? Even if they don't do the deed themselves, Erik would go after them, especially if he found out they're literal monster supremacists.Yes, but Fenris is an enemy of Thor's
>>98591165The Get are wotanists (more or less) but it's specifically the Sword of Heimdall camp that is neo-Nazi
>>98591168Good enough reason for an holocaust survivor to see all get as freaks to be smashed by iron plates
>>98591184Actually, yeah, I can go with that reasoning. We can treat mutants as a splat, and it's always hard for one splat to learn about, let alone care about, another splat's nuances
>>98590908Fuck Marvel, let's use DC!-Batman's no kill rule applies to kin. Since Arkham and Blackgate are not an option, he keeps them staked in the Batcave ala Tetris. Even the vampires don't get why he keeps them 'alive'.-Swamp Thing is a polarizing figure among the Garou. Some hate him, some fear him, some see him as Gaia's living embodiment. Poison Ivy is just hated, but she can actually control Garou so it's not just fanaticism.-Killer Croc is Pentex's attempt to make a mockery breed of Mokolé, but he escaped. Despite being created by evil he's not evil himself, not that most Garou see it that way. He's basically the Hulk of Fera.-Doctor Helmet (forgot his name) is the Technocracy's chiefest enemy.
Okayyyyy…Adrian and Wyrm musical number like it’s a Disney movie
>>98591198>Doctor Helmetit's Doctor Fate you dingus
Is self-aware zombie a good insult for vampires?
>>98591243Nah.Half the brujah/c*itiff won't even understand what the fuck your are talking about.
>>98591243Zombie should be enough
>>98591165Get hasn't been Nazi ever. A part of them were but like, every single guys had them. From Garou Tribes to Mages to Fae. Literally, the very first Get of Fenris Tribe book starts with a "Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos" style comic killing Nazi Fenris.Like, does all nuance goes away when it comes to Get for some reason? One of the reasons why W5 is lambasted all over is because they turned Get of Fenris into a caricature of itself (because the lead developer hated them)
>>98591266Again, you expect fucking Magneto not to take it the wrong way?
>>98591266This is your reminder that the current leading tribe of the Gaoru is a tribe of race purists.
>>98591276Magneto (and really, most Krakoa era mutants) being the worst mix of Silver Fangs eugenics and Get of Fenris survival of fitest? Yeah he is delusional enough.But don't paddle Get being Nazis stuff when it is a sore issue for most people.
>>98591292Magneto's an hypocrite. Never said he was a good guy, only that he'd hate the Get on principle
>>98591198Man of Gotham will be fun with a DC crossover>>98591287True but the next in line are Shadow Lords, who help Red Talons with New Impergium. So they are still way bette
>>98591315>>98591198Oh my god that reminds me of the time I basically rewrote DC and made Gotham the WOD.Bruce being effectively a Werebat
>>98591320Bruce “I keep my own brand of bat-buckets” Wayne being the last Werebat is the funniest thing you could do. With his obsession with branding and uncovering secrets, he’d be the poster boy of the Weaver and Wyrm That Was. I honestly don’t think he’d even try to save Camazozt, given all his gadgets and how rarely he is depicted learning magic, Shifting and Stepping Sideways would be the most he’d do. The rest of his kit he’d try to keep as mundane and spirit free as possible, since he’s meant to represent the peak of humanity. He might even straight up consider himself human, just able to turn into a giant bat because he finds them scary or something.
>>98591198>-Doctor Helmet (forgot his name) is the Technocracy's chiefest enemy.Dr. Fate is literally a Mummy.
>>98590901Some Protean for agg damage claws will also help a bunch.
Do the other Fera not have tribes the way Garou have Black Furies and Fianna and so on, or do they have them but the Changing Breeds book was running out of room?
>>98591586They probably do but they don't have the numbers for those tribes to be more than pack sized.
>>98591154That's the type of stuff you're supposed to be doing in Forsaken.
>>98591586Bastat, Gurahl, Corax, Ratkin, Mokolé and Ananasi all have tribes or tribe-like factions.
>>98590740>Like dialed-up post-nut clarity, mixed with mystical awakening, which the Moths cause in those looking upon them.>An unkind revelation that is mercifully forgotten when they're no longer observed.So they are marauders now too ?
>>98590931>. E.g. the Order of Hermes rank advancement thingy that says Arete 3 is reached by most within a few years, whilst those who reach 4 reach it in a decade.Consider that these mages are awakened from normie muggle due to their apprenticenship, your average mage will be probably an orphan that can get up there faster.
>>98590931>and I dunno the power of the average awakened but I always put it at 2-3 areteThat is about the average.
>>98591768My Avatar tells me its actually pretty big, not average.
>>98591920Shouldn't your avatar be telling you to pump your arete higher, isn't that what an avatar does?
>>98591920Aw that's sweet, does it also tell you that you can totally achieve Ascension in this lifetime if you just try hard enough?>tfw no Avatarwife with the Manifest Avatar and True Love merits combined
New>>98591998>>98591998
>>98590931>This doesn't really change for 5th gen, because they're.. not really better mages?There are 6 and higher dot thaumaturgy "spells">The majority of tremere are not 7th genDepends on ST, you could have everyone running around at 11th gen on average or a single 4th gen could decide to make fifty 5th gens in a single nightWhich brings me to a more significant point, tremere are better at making new mages>Now, as for combat.A single vampire can blood buff or celerity to one shot a mage, its WoD if it has stats it's probably one shotableMore importantly there's a reason why the mages lose every time they go up against vampires in large scale
>>98593238>There are 6 and higher dot thaumaturgy "spells"Genuinely never seen these in any statblock for vampire. Must be quite rare.>Depends on ST, you could have everyone running around at 11th gen on average or a single 4th gen could decide to make fifty 5th gens in a single nightThey'll still be fledglings with 1 dot in thaumaturgy ergo bad mages. Either way it's a stupid ass argument, like the ST could say the order of hermes got off it's ass and is training ten thousands more sorcerers all over the world because it only takes a few years to become a formidable one. And I want to be entirely clear: Being a tremere does not make you a mage, learning thaumaturgy does. And this is more or less the same as learning linear sorcery.>A single vampire can blood buff or celerity to one shot a mage, its WoD if it has stats it's probably one shotable.More importantly there's a reason why the mages lose every time they go up against vampires in large scale.In the canon mage material the Order of Hermes always inflicted immense losses on the tremere and vice versa, calling it a stalemate. In the Vampire material, the OoH barely exists, to keep the gamelines separate. Either way, celerity is not a clan discipline for Tremere and I see precious little tremere elder npc statblocks that have it. Also celerity makes it no longer a oneshot by definition.None of this makes them better mages, but only better combatants. Either way, without fortitude the wizard will still very likely kill the tremere with a single attack. And it's fundamentally impossible to know what sorts of defensive rituals he may have cast. They may just have a "Mage Armor" with 8ish successes allocated, or something far more sinister.And while I agree that WoD is certainly rocket-tag, a tremere is certainly worse than a mage at bullshit damage.
