So... should I drop 2e for this?
It's 4e again with some minor improvements, they even expect people to use their 4e supplements
You should have dropped 2e for 4e already.
>>98620406I don't like 4e DEI artstyle thoughbeit
>>986204345e (core rulebook) isn't much better in that regard if that was your issue since a lot of the 4e art was reused however, I will say most of the replacement art isn't "woke" since it depicts white men doing those careers or have women in less action-oriented careers
>>98620457Ok, thanks
>>98620294You should drop Warhammer altogether.
>>98620963I'm sure you can recommend me a better fictional universe, then
>>98620457Are the noble and warden careers of the empire still portrayed by sub-saharan africans?
>>98621264Yeah, the Warden is unchanged from 4e, and the Noble uses the art from TOWRPG player guideMerchant is also the same as 4e(but that character is specifically a Southlander, unlike these other examples), and the Artist career uses art from one of the Imperial Zoo PCs, who was a Black guy.
>>98621073Literally anything else. But try exalted. Or world of darkness. Or call of cthulu. I genuinely dont get how people get so tunnel visioned to nothing but warhammer.
>>98621286Ok, good to know. Won't be buying it then. I don't care about the merchant but the noble and warden are too egregious for me and is the exact kind of stuff I refuse to support.
>>98620294Yes, if you're still asking this asinine question in 2026 then you should buy every fucking thing every fucking game company sells the moment they fucking sell it, stack those boxes, don't paint a fucking thing, just collect vacuum sealed plastic and STFU.
>>98620457Wait, there's 5e now? Since when?
>>98621327three days ago
>>98621286Ah yeah see sorry...that's a no buy for me.
>>98621313same here
>>98620294Nah, it’s a different vibe. 5e is in a better place mechanically than 4e, but it still needs some licks with the editor’s marker. After an errata it should be strictly better.
>>98621557tbf that it kinda why they released a PDF version so early, but I'm not sure how people feel about basically paying to be a beta reader
>>98621583Hello, yes. That was me. I bought the PDF on release. I’m on the Ratter’s Guild and found C7’s handling of WHF throughout the madness of 2015-2025 to be very respectable, so they’ve earned my trust. They’re still dumbies sometimes with their edits and rules, but I feel comfortable buying things from them since they’re not scum.
>>98622015>Ratter’s GuildI'm kinda surprised anyone in that Discord uses 4chan
>>98622031There’s plenty of us, if you know where to look.
>>98622044I’d rather not venture to /soc/ or /lgbt/
2e was the peak of Fantasy and it had only gone downhill from then
>>98622065Shadow of the Demon Lord is already the spiritual successor. Just play that.
>>98620336That seems like a really dumb and unnecessary way to do difficulties.
>>98621286>Graf Tyrone von Wassermelone.Also I liked what was being done with 4e (aside from modern shit bleeding into it like the aformentioned black imperial nobles or changing Malekith's name, because muh yidsney) but somehow I didn't feel like it had done enough to need, or really 'earn' a new edition. Especially since 5e doesn't really look all that different from 4e. If you're already playing 2e just stick with that because it's still the best and still has really, really good sourcebooks. I still crack open Old World Bestiary from time to time.
>>98622113>Especially since 5e doesn't really look all that different from 4e.They *are* planning to set the Big 5e Adventure (multi-book campaign? Oh boy) in Ostland. It's going to be interesting to see what they do with that.
>>98622092I think the idea was to unify this with other aspects of the rules. If skills, items, and effects grant +X SL, then the difficulty should also apply a + or - SL modifier; that way, these effects can be easily added up or subtracted. For example, a lock's difficulty might give you -2 SL, but your Lockpicking skill grants +1 and a special set of lockpicks adds +2, resulting in a net total of +1.
OP here. Thanks everyone for the replies. I think I'll stick with 2e for now, honestly I still can't get over some of the art for 5e (inb4 poltard etc. etc.) and the system still feels too crunchy for my small brain.However, some of the 4e splatbooks seem interesting, like pic related. Has anyone experience with running 4e modules for 2e? Would the conversion be difficult?
>>98622541>Has anyone experience with running 4e modules for 2e? Only Lustria and even then it's just for creature stats, there's homebrew stuff for that on the 2e files and online already. If I was you I would stick to 2e books like the Horned Rat book which is imo it's more complete in 2e>Would the conversion be difficult?Not really, but I wouldn't say it's easy either you would need a couple of hours if you are not good with numbers like me so don't worry about it if you don't need to
It's a shame that FFG royally fucked up 3e's release schedule and pricing because the final complete product is unquestionably the best WFRP version made. I also 100% understand why people loathed it though.
>>98622657How the fuck can you mess up math on a d100 system when that is the most brain dead retarded system on earth?
>>98623025Definitely didn't help when they released core rule books so you could play it without all the bits and cards.Those bits and cards made it so you knew exactly what options any given action had available on a roll without having to look up anything. Everyone at the table knew turn order, who was hurt and how bad, what everyone did last turn and the turn coming up. It was the MOST open information game I have played to the point someone could go take a shit, play could continue, and when they returned they could read the table and understand what happened while they were gone with nobody filling them in. It remains the only RPG I have played that could do that.Removing the cards and bits? It's one cumbersome bitch with a staggering amount of reference reading per turn.
>>98622541>However, some of the 4e splatbooks seem interesting, like pic related.What... How is Tribes and Tribulations interesting compared to Lustria or Salzenmund? It's not a setting book, it's a lore dump on Greenskins and templates for making them stronger.
>>98623130nta but some of the exploration into specific tribes like the Savage Orc Stone Snakes is pretty fun, the use of in-universe essays is also good.That's not to say the Lustria and especially the Salzenmund book aren't great, but I can easily see the appeal of Tribes and Tribulations.
>>98622197TOW is a trannified setting at this point turning more and more into AoS by the week. Not interested.
>>98623512TOW is not WHFRP.
>>98623035I'm mathematically retarded.
>>98620457>since it depicts white men doing those careers or have women in less action-oriented careersNot him but I'm not buying into nu Warhammer until they walk back all the bullshit inclusivity both for 40k and fantasy. Men only Bretonnian knights and Custodes, no fucking trans Necrons, drop the shitty WoW Chinese aesthetic for Cathay, drop the faggot gender shit, etcI wouldn't move past the FFG RPGs for this reason alone, much less consider buying models again. They have a lot of fan good will from me that they pissed away. The combination of greed, pro DEI, and their pointed "you don't belong in our hobby" bullshit has made me not even entertain this shit. And once the cultural focus shifts and all the locusts they are pandering to leave, they are going to be shit out of luck trying to sell me on this shit unless they walk back everything and issue public apologies for how they treated people
>>98625026>And once the cultural focus shifts and all the locusts they are pandering to leaveAaaanny day now..
>>98625036Probably won't happen for about 5-10 years, but it will happenPeople that arrogantly assume that status quo is simply going to last forever are a dime a dozen in history
Whats the new magic rules like? Is there any standouts? Can I turn myself into a gilded man like in 2e?
>>98622254Yeah, that seems a lot less intuitive to me than just having +/- 10, 20 or 30. I've never like success level mechanics.
>>98623130I just like orcs anon, sorry if that pisses you off
>>98625099It's the channelling rules from Winds of Magic splat for 4e, maybe slightly changed.I saw some of the lores got new spells but I don't think Metal was one of them. They still got Glittering Robes and Transmutation of Chamon, so they can turn other people into gold
>>98621073its always coc or wod with these faggots. doesnt matter what theyre shitting on in the moment, their only solution is always coc and wod. almost like theyve never played a (different)game
>>98625026C7 dumped Andy Law for getting uppity about Fimir, even though the Lawman does draw amazing maps. There isn’t a single black elf in the books about High Elven characters and there are less black people in all of Enemy Within than a single set-piece for DnD.
>>98625830Fimir don't have stat blocks in this new rulebook and arn't mentioned by name in any books in the last 5 years
>>98625834Yeah because they suck.
>>98625865Fimir are great though, they have a cool design and if they had better stats in WFB 3rd edition, they would have seen more usage
>>98625788That sucks. I want to be like Balthazar Gelt
>>98625812Hey don't lump us in with the w*d fags
>>98625812>can’t make an argument Nice samefag lol.
>>98625891I just think they’re worse kroxigor
>>98626244Kroxigors aren't weird swamp Cyclopia they are just dumb crocodiles
>>98621073>fictional universeWhat about games?
>>98625812CoC sucks and WoD is worse.Everything attached to D&D or anything that has the same internal inconsistencies are trash, too.
here a video of a guy going through the rules and the changes from 4ehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AC-UUnWtYY
Are there pdfs in the sharethread yet?
>>98625830Not enough. It's not enough that they don't fuck up MORE, they have to unfuck what they already fucked up and give a sense of feeling that they won't do it again.
>>98627146Outside of the weird artistic depiction for Carrers, which they backed down from for the most part, I'm not sure what there is to back down off.
>>98627482>I'm not sure what there is to back down offDid they remove female bretonnian knights and make Cathay and Kislev not look and feel like some faggy WoW factions?
>>98625039Okay, but in 5-10 years I'll be approaching 50 fucking years old, I'm not going to stick around and wait.
>>98625830The correct number of black elves has always been zero, they don't and have never existed. You don't get a cookie for that.
>>986284915-10 years assumes there is the same steady decline and some big scandal that can't really be predicted happens.
>>98628535And not that some big scandal happens, I meant
>>98621073NTAYRTWhat do you find interesting about WFRP's setting? If you want Grimderp that plays better, SotDL is an option.In terms of a setting, I don't personally find WH to be very unique but I like it's tone and am big fan of Skaven being unapologetically terrible creatures to a cartoonish level.
>>98628917Also nta and SotDL is a fun system but the setting isn't as defined or interesting as WarhammerThere are a lot of interesting things about Warhammer fantasy as a setting, hard to nail down any one thingI think I like the contrast between the factions and that the world seems inspired by real life tropes and history, but with flourishes and artistic liberties that make it even more cool. Well, the newer retconned lore sucks, just like how in 40k all the HH and 5th edition onwards stuff kind of sucks or is a mixed bag at best, but the feeling you got from the setting was very unique
Magic is still kinda a terrible and poorly thought out system in it so im still passing on it.
>>98628478None of that has been represented in WHFRP 4e or 5e. Actually, the only time I've seen Bretonnian characters is them being represented as their 1e iterations - as in, stinky snail-slurping Sun King expies rather than Arthurian stereotypes.
>>98628917Warhammer Fantasy has the most satisfying villains out of any other fantasy setting. They have the best undead, the best “evil cultists,” the best disposable monsters (Beastmen) and the best orcs. The 17th century aesthetic is top notch, and wizards feel suitably dangerous. The only fantasy staples they falter with are dragons, which sucks but at least they do exist and like to hoard treasure. It’s a deep, lavishly lived-in world with decades of lore and supplements teaching you everything you need to know to express yourself in the world.And despite GW’s best efforts at times, it’s still intact. The world was blown up, Cathay was glazed and some Imperials are swarthy, yet 4e still feels like Warhammer and the games I’ve ran in it never gave me the ick.
>>98628980>None of that has been represented in WHFRP 4e or 5eI remember seeing it for the old world that female bret knights was just normal and they didn't even have to disguise as men in the very rare cases it did happen, like in old loreUnless they have explicit wording ala 2nd ed (pic related) I don't trust them
>>98628949>seems inspired by real life tropes and history, but with flourishes and artistic liberties that make it even more cool.personally this is the weakest aspect of the setting for me, it lacks a proper philosophy behind it, and more importantly it makes its fantasy lacking, which in turn quells its narrative potential rather dim in my opinion.>but anon its set in semi historical ideas Yea, sure, and I know this is going to sound pretentious, but I dont care for the historical elements/period the setting is largely based on. Which to be fair, pike and shot and a dash of Arthurian knights are too normie oriented for my tastes, but its too specific for me at least to play around with on that alone. What im basically saying, is that it does not offer much beyond the moment, and the moments it does have are not lasting. I guess the atmosphere is something that it does have going for, but its also something that in my opinion works against itself.
>>98629012>Most satisfying villainsHaven't personally seen any in the core RPG books that strike me as such. Maybe supplements or outside material.To be fair, this might be a D&D situation where so much of WH's influence has leaked out into other stuff that when you encounter WH at a later point (I didn't look into it until I was close to 40) that it seems kind of generic dark fantasy
>>98629097Well you are in the minority is all I can say. Nothing mingles and balances different elements better than Warhammer does as a setting. There is a mix of gothic horror, lovecraftian horror, Renaissance, and classic fantasy that you just can't find in other placesThe most interesting and original thing about SotDL is the Reen and they get like no focus
>>98629255There has never been an RPG core book with villains I liked, the appeal of Warhammer is having a setting with a lot of personality capable of supporting cool villains that YOU make
>>98623025is there a 3e trove? i saw someone say it being a fun hack and slash game whatever that means.what made 3e good in your opinion. most i can find is vitriol
>>98628478No, but they are basically not mentioned at all outside of extreme broadstrokes
>>98620294Fuck off Games Workshop. Buy an ad if you want shill your product on here. You're no Space King, I swear you're almost as bad as TC.
>>98630595Well then I'm not going to play their new stuff, end of story. There is no argument you can posit to me that will convince me to partake again until they walk back all their bullshit and publicly apologize for the "you don't belong in Warhammer" shit.They can't even have consistent lore and they won't even apologize. Why patronize them?
>>98630670TBF, most of these decisions are on GW rather than C7, who have been neutral on these topics since they bring them up unless GW seems to force them, also C7 have made book i really like, such as the Salzenmund book
>>98630689It sucks for people that don't deserve it, no doubt, but they should have kept their finger on the pulse of how GW is acting.Part of the job for making stuff for established properties is to understand the climate and what the perception of the property is before a final commitment to taking a job. Same thing with any third party adaptions of an IP.I'm not obligated to support them because they made a bad business call
>>98630705I’m very sorry you feel that way, and I hope you find a system you and your group can enjoy.>>98629255The system is married to the wargame, the villains there are the villains here. Skaven make great villains. Necromancers make great villains. There are so many different McGuffins laying around, or ways the world work, to make designing your own villain both easy and exciting. Estalian vampire modeled after a conquistador? I’d struggle in Golarion to design that, but in WHFRP it flows. Skaven building a moonbreaker powered by a windmill whose sails are made of wizard skins? Easy and thematic. I could go on and on but you get the point. The world brims with potential and any GM worth their salt can mine it for years.
>>98630736>I hope you find a system you and your group can enjoy.I have, the thing is that there is no reason to move over from.I'd rather stick with Shadow of the Demon Lord, Genesys, the old FFG Warhammer stuff, or a lot of other systems than give GW money after what they did and continue to do to destroy the fun of Warhammer.
>>98630754I’m personally more fond of Weird Wizard, it was by far the most GM-friendly system I’ve ran. Designing encounters in that one was a breeze!
>>98630761Weird Wizard has way less player options and I like my players to go wildAlso I hear that you have to either pick race bonuses or class bonuses which is completely backwards imo
>>98630585I've not played 3e myself, but I understand it to be the progenitor to FFG's Star Wars and Genesys ruleset, which use proprietary dice and are a pretty hard break from the crunchy feel of 1/2e WFRP.
>>98630850i totally get the hate, having been in the situation of other games with a hard break on their ruleset. it just seems really rare to find someone that liked
>>98630855I think the introduction of games like Vermintide have done a lot to help sell the notion that WFRP doesn't 'just' have to be the small-but-vicious-dog simulator. Fate Points are pretty cool things for the heroes to have, after all.
>>98620294If you want Gnome NPC, then yes; if you want Fimir, then no.
>>98630585>What made 3e good in your opinion?A lot of stuff that is optional purchases were part of the core game and it operates on the logic you will be using those tools.Actions, status effects, critical wounds, miscast effects, mutations, diseases, monsters, NPCs, Items, Locations?All have a card that breaks down their effects, options, how to treat, stats, etc. This results in you having all information readily available and can be more complex as a result resulting in an easy to understand but deep as hell game.Combat can be fast and deadly. It can use mob rules or just keep mundane enemies a challenge. Unlike most games that gloss over one type in favor of the other, 3e was pretty upfront with both and it was easy to switch between them so you can keep it typical WH were everything can kick your ass as well as it can kick yours, or have the group mowing down clanrats or gobbos each turn while they still eat damage.Some of the ideas in the GM guide were pretty great. Making spiderweb adventure designs instead of rail roads, overland long distance chase resolution, investigations, on the fly adventure creation using those cards, and more.Magic? Strong as hell but can bite you in the ass hard. Guns? Powerful and easily implemented. The game has faults though. The biggest being the stance dice being clumsily done. The dice pools got comically large. The math on those dice were off with negative dice being far more weighted than positive dice. These were fixed with SW though but you can't one for one replace them because WH is geared more to you fucking up than succeeding.FFG fucked up the release schedule bad and core concepts for WH was spread out among multiple products instead of just being in the core game. It deserves the hate it gets for that, honestly. People claiming it was more of a board game instead of an RPG were just flat out wrong though.
So if I wanted to update The Body Guilded ritual that turns you to living gold to 5e would I need to change anything?
>>98625039And your kind said the same thing 5-10 years ago. The Happening was a lie, you were always just braindead.
>>98634571>And your kind said the same thing 5-10 years agoIn 2016-2021 I was still assuming that this shit wouldn't even begin to start getting sorted until like 2030 minimum. It really depends on when the economy can't even pretend to be functional and another giga crash happens on top of the current depression that has lasted since the 2008 crash. A crash needs to happen to kick off any real changes unless boomers suddenly all die tomorrow. That would do it too. 5-10 years plus some serious political fighting for a couple years after (maybe even a civil war if unlucky)
>>98620294No, you should drop 2e for 1e.
>>98633716sounds interesting. did anyone ever try to do an offshoot of the system? or is the idea basically just stuck? i know genesys uses the dice but it still sounds quite different to wfrp 3e
>>98635588FFG's Star Wars line and Genesys use the same dice mechanics, just refined so the pools aren't as wacky large, negative dice aren't so weighted against positive dice, and the stance system was removed because it was clunky in practice.With Genesys setting books you got a fantasy splat, cyberpunk splat, space opera splat, and whatever the fuck you would consider the Key forge setting as (made more hilarious since FFG doesn't make Keyforge any more).
>>98622541>Has anyone experience with running 4e modules for 2e? Would the conversion be difficult?It's nontrivial but it's not too hard. There's rules for converting 2e => 4e in the 4e, you just run them backwards.But if you want to run 4e modules, just run 4e. It's not that different. I think you legitimately save more work by learning the new system than by converting the modules.
>>98622085SotDL is 5e trash though
>>98620294>Thread Question:No, at least not yet. 5e has much stronger foundation than 4e has, but the book obviously still has a lot of typos and rules that don't work right because C7 can't proofread their books for shit.Come back in a couple months and make that judgement call.
>>98635545Having played both I'd say 2e is the better game, and far more fleshed out, but 1e was also fun. I wouldn't recommend 1e except when people are explicitly looking for an old school experience.
>>98643012Id probably never play or run 1e, but the 1e book is one of the best RPG books that's ever been published. Aside from the magic system being somewhat lacking, I cannot think of a more complete single volume role playing game. Really ahead of its time.
>>98643193Check out the Dragon Age book, though that's cheating because they took 3 books and bound them together. Still, comprehensive and gorgeous.
>>98643193I agree it was ahead of its time, one of the best of that era to my knowledge. So if someone is specifically looking to try old school, I would recommend it. The art alone is worth a look for WH fans. There's even an intro scenario in the back that's passable. I remember the magic system as quite bad (in hindsight maybe rushed is a better description), but I never played with Realms of Sorcery.But for someone used to modern rpgs 2e will be much easier to pick up. Most WH-related rpgs since have basically been 2e with some polishing and details added, and the width of source books released gives tons of good context even if the quality was highly variable. 2e won't require a "let's try old school" sell, as it's just a good WH rpg.
>>98643193I cannot think of a more complete single volume role playing game. Really ahead of its time.I can. Cyberpunk 2.0.2.0. core rulebook has it all.
>>98623979If you actually believe GW are going to stick with the whole>Oh yeah TOW is super multicult and progressive because it's erm liek a golden age or something(*hypnospiral* You Will Ignore That This Makes No Sense In The Context Of Previously Established Fluff About The Era *hypnospiral*) and things get worse and more badderer nearer the End Times, TOW is totally its own thing!bullshit rather than using it to boil the proverbial frog until Nignobles and girlboss Generals and Ladyknights and fags everywhere are just how most people who've heard of Warhammer see Warhammer, I have an exciting bridge redevelopment opportunity in central London we should talk about you investing in.
>>98625830They dumped him because he started acting deranged in public and caused a scene. If he'd have just kept his gob shut they'd have been perfectly happy for him to keep shitting up the setting, just as the rest of them are.
>>98645570>>Oh yeah TOW is super multicult and progressive because it's erm liek a golden age or something(*hypnospiral* You Will Ignore That This Makes No Sense In The Context Of Previously Established Fluff About The Era *hypnospiral*) and things get worse and more badderer nearer the End Times, TOW is totally its own thing!You're getting too mad at this to be funny.
>>98645448Nah, not to say that 2020 isn't a complete game, but wfrp 1e has more.
>>98645590And you're too much of an ESL to construct a coherent sentence. Want to try again Jorjeep?
>>98645576>They dumped him because he started acting deranged in public and caused a scene.do you have proof of this or even an example of Law being a spatic in public when he worked at C7?
>>98625834It's 4 years tbf
>>98626244Kroxigors aren't magically attuned cyclopean Irish rape demons who live in bogs and might be responsible for chaos being in the world in the first place.
>>98654639When were they last mentioned?
>>98657298Mentioned in WFRP Lustria book released in 2023. At least Lexicanum claims p.19 as a source for them fighting armies of saurus and making pacts with the chaos gods.I don't have that book, so can't verify.
>>98621286HAHAHAHAHA HOLY SHIT
