Starting last June, I made a very poor series of decisions involving a Chronicles of Darkness living world server that I joined and proceeded to ST in. I would like to share my story, so that others can avoid making the same mistakes.I entered the server by the end of June 2026, back when it was first getting started. I started roleplaying with a PC soon thereafter. Come the 4th of July, I ditched my PC in favor of full-time ST duties. I was the only person in the entire server who opted to be a PC-less, full-time ST.The hierarchy of the server was as follows. There was the head ST, henceforth referred to as "the Big Cheese" (and no, that was not their actual username). The Big Cheese did a lot of genuine, meaningful, appreciable work as ST and as server runner, and I must credit and admire them for that. However, they also liked to play PCs, and they had a lot of PCs: 22, last I checked. These PCs were entirely separate from the Big Cheese's NPCs, and the Big Cheese really did like to get these PCs into a wide range of scenes.Below the Big Cheese were their three friends, nominally acting as moderators. Only on rare occasions did they do any STing. For the most part, they just played their share of PCs. One moderator had 9 PCs. (To be clear, this was abnormal. The one non-ST player with the most PCs had "only" 6 PCs. The bulk of players had only 1 or 2.)Finally, below the Big Cheese and their three friends were random people who volunteered to be ST. During my stay in the server, there were three of us. It felt like the three of us were doing vastly more work as STs and server runners than any of the moderators, and yet we had significantly less say in house rules and rulings than those moderators. One of those three volunteer STs, other than me, left due to their own grievances and dissatisfaction.(Continued.)
The server ran Beast: The Primordial (the head ST's favorite by far), Changeling: The Lost 2e, Demon: The Descent, Deviant: The Renegades, Geist: The Sin-Eaters 2e, Hunter: The Vigil 2e (which the head ST disliked, yet allowed as a concession), Mage: The Awakening 2e (which, unsurprisingly, turned out to be the most problematic by a huge margin), Promethean: The Created 2e (whose eponymous Prometheans had most of their drawbacks heavily neutered), Vampire: The Requiem 2e, and Werewolf: The Forsaken 2e. There were lots and lots and lots of third-party books available. Also, mortal humans, including hunters, could mix two templates at character creation.In theory, different game lines were divided between different STs, giving each ST a well-demarcated responsibility. In practice, this was seldom the case. Differing availabilities meant that each ST had to run every game line. Furthermore, since the PCs in a scene were often of mixed character types, each ST needed to be reasonably familiar with the rules of every game line; for example, I once wound up running a combat for a mage, a vampire, two werewolves, and a Beast, each of which were activating all sorts of scene-defining abilities.Chronicles of Darkness games are absolutely not well-balanced. Each game is full of rules and character options that are poorly balanced, ambiguously written, or both. This is exacerbated in a crossover game with different types of supernatural PCs.The Big Cheese and the moderators wanted some semblance of balance, so they varied the starting XP based on supernatural type (e.g. mages got the least), and put up an extraordinarily long list of house rules and rulings. Some were understandable, but many were puzzling and arbitrary overcorrections. The list grew longer and longer with each month, and several additions felt very knee-jerk.
The list and its additions incited many arguments. Whenever a player, especially a new player, questioned the house rules and rulings, the Big Cheese got very grumpy and standoffish. Two of the moderators would pile on and belittle the person asking about the house rules and rulings. To their credit, they eventually gained some self-awareness and cut back on such behavior, but arguments and dissatisfaction over the house rules and rulings still happened.Despite the above efforts, there were still major rifts in PC power. Some PCs, even within the same supernatural type, were vastly more optimized and thus powerful than others. The Big Cheese and the moderators knew this, of course; the Big Cheese openly described one PC from a moderator as "easily among the most powerful characters on the server." Because noncombat rolls did not quite have the same stakes as combat rolls, combat optimization was the only optimization that mattered.It did not help that the Big Cheese and the moderators made resource management nonexistent. They wanted a player to be able to play a single PC across multiple scenes simultaneously, sensible timeline be damned.The Big Cheese and the moderators ruled that whenever a PC entered a new sequence of scenes, the PC would just... fill up to fresh: full Health, full Willpower, full Mana or Aether or whatever, full 1/chapter abilities, the works. Non-Persistent Conditions, too, vanished every real-world Monday. So naturally, PCs went nova and burnt through resources all the time. Ending a sequence with 6 aggravated damage and a stack of non-Persistent Conditions meant nothing at all. This distorted game balance even further. (Permanent PC death was not on the table. The server's setting had a gimmick of resurrecting PCs for a price. During my time in the server, no PC died.)
As a result of the Big Cheese being both head ST and the player of a staggering 22 PCs, there were conflicts of interest. The server had no safeguards against the Big Cheese giving their PCs as an advantage. I do not think they ever did so intentionally, but there were many moments when it felt like the Big Cheese was unconsciously placing a thumb on the metaphorical scale. These included:• Giving rulings that set precedent that favored their PC.• Preemptively building a PC with favorable rulings in mind.• Laying down interpretations of setting lore that favored their PC. Because the Big Cheese had final say over the truth or falsity of any given piece of lore in the books, the Big Cheese could leverage that authority to vindicate whatever their PC was doing at the time. For example, one of their PCs went on a fervent crusade to defend X controversial subject; shortly thereafter, the Big Cheese made it canon that defending X is the morally and ethically correct thing to do.• Having major NPCs support their PC, sometimes within the same scene. For example, when one of their PCs went on a fervent crusade to defend X, the single most personally and politically powerful supernatural resident of the city just so happened to endorse and support the PC in the same scene, and decry everyone who dared to stand against X.• Directly overruling me, while I was STing for one of the Big Cheese's PCs, if I established an inconvenient plot point. Twice, I tried to inject some nuance by suggesting that defending X is not so clear-cut, and was overruled.(X is, of course, fetches. They wanted to protect all fetches from changelings, and they wanted their PC to be in the right.)• There was a fighting tournament. The Big Cheese had a PC as a contestant, and so did a moderator. When the Big Cheese's tournament host NPC laid down the rules for matches, they just so happened to significantly favor the Big Cheese's PC and that moderator's PC.
My biggest and most regrettable mistake was not realizing how much of a commitment this would be. STing this game was a daily, high-intensity commitment: running multiple concurrent scenes, devising and portraying NPCs, piecing scenes together into wider adventures and plots, adjudicating rules and rulings (always a necessary evil in a game as jankily written as Chronicles of Darkness, triply so with our overly long list of house rules and rulings), checking in with other STs, helping new players assemble sheets, reviewing sheets for approval, and more. Engaging with this game absolutely devoured my time, effort, and inspiration.This might not have been so bad, but I had obligations to other games. I put two play-by-post games that I was GMing, with two players each, on hiatus for over six weeks. At the time, I did not tell those four players the true reason why I was putting their games on hiatus. This was absolutely horrid of me. I have no excuse for being so hyperfixated on STing for this server that I simply had no time left to run those other games. I have since come clean to those four players.I am the sort of GM who strongly prefers tightly balanced, unambiguous rules; the shaky balance of Chronicles of Darkness games, and the well-meaning but ultimately troublesome attempts to "fix" them constantly grated on me. Similarly, I was constantly bothered by the Big Cheese and the way they played their 22 PCs.I stuck around for months as ST, giving this my best effort. I could have done something else with all this time and effort (e.g. actually attending to those two games that I put on hiatus), but because of some strange sense of sunken costs fallacy, I decided to stick it out. Only after months did I realize that I was choosing to be in the wrong place.Hours ago, I put in my two weeks' notice. I announced my departure as ST for that server in a fortnite's time. I hope things will get better there.And I hope I can pick those other games back up.
interesting story thanks op. in my experience it has been this way in roleplay servers from the earliest days of irc, but with things being more sophisticated now there are now infinite ways of abusing soft or hard power to get your way in rp. i remember basically every rp community i ever joined suffered in some ways from this>early irc #starchat wod players were murderous jerks who came into the pleasant tavern to murderhobo>i trolled them into giving up by creating a teenage retard wannabe vampire hunter who sucked at everything but through slapstick was able to survive by falling on his face to dodge the flying death daggers>nwn rp servers riddled with puppetmaster players who spied and gathered info on many alts then retaliated on their mains against anyone who didnt like them without warning>conan exiles rp where the mods ran the "antag" factions but power gamed relentlessly and would pick your whole post apart for a single word, argued it was provocation, and then magically all 5 of their fighters would know what was happening on this dusty road and appear instantly to gank youi'm sure there are more that i cant remember now. what a long strange trip its been. i often think about how to solve for this problem, but i think yo would need to have a "big cheese" that had a kind of committed lolbert attitude and only employed other fair minded autists like yourself
>>98661021>i think yo would need to have a "big cheese" that had a kind of committed lolbert attitude and only employed other fair minded autists like yourselfHaving a head GM dedicated solely to GMing and not playing (certainly not playing 22 PCs) would solve a lot of problems, true.
>>98661052yeah that's quite preposterous, especially since wod attracts disproportionate power gamers, it seems this is a clear case of one starting a server so he can power trip balls on everyoneseems ST should have been limited to NPCs only. you can still have cool strong ones but they have to remain in their situational roles
>>98660951So what exactly were you getting out of this server that was filled with things you claim to absolutely fucking hate, ran by several guys you clearly intensely dislike, and was a clusterfuck with no direction where you were (Allegedly) doing all the work?I feel like you're keeping a whole lot of details vague and hidden.
>avoid World of Darkness games like a plague Got it, boss.
>>98661118Sounds like Edna was in a “frog in the boiling pot” kind of situation where you don’t realize how much of a mess a game truly is until you’ve wrenched yourself out of it and hindsight kicks in. Especially if you’re a DM, since you can become used to doing a lot of the heavy lifting and become blind to how rotten a situation truly is.Though honestly, the line> Beast: The Primordial (the head ST's favorite by far)Definitely says it was all kind if ducked from the start imo.
>>98661118>>98661181For one, as much as I detest the rules of the Chronicles of Darkness game lines so thoroughly (especially the rules of Mage: The Awakening 2e), I really do find their settings and lore fascinating (especially those of Mage: The Awakening 2e). I was genuinely invested in STing and getting to present the settings and the lore.For two, I met some good players there. I ran adventures for them. However janky the mechanical side was, it was nice to have them as players.For three, inertia set in. I felt obligated to stick around for the sake of the players whom I found nice. I did not want to leave them hanging. I did not want to rugpull away the many future adventure hooks and (deliberately) loose threads I had left behind. I felt like it was my responsibility to fix and work with the messy situation.Indeed, the chief reason why I gave two weeks' notice was so that I could give some measure of closure to those players I had already been running scenes and adventures for.I am staying in touch with some of those players. I am trying to organize a shorter, separate game (probably in a different system) to make it up to them.
>>98661181I didn't ask you faggot.
>>98661189>abloobloobloo
>>98661188>For two, I met some good players there. I ran adventures for them. However janky the mechanical side was, it was nice to have them as players.What did they do that made them so good?
>>98661188That’s honestly the only real thing you can do with a fucked up game server, leave while trying to pull out the players you liked that were worth salvaging.>>98661189Fight me irl then, faggot
>>98661200It sounds vague, but I felt that they meshed well with me and my GMing style. That is it.
>>98661246What particular actions indicated that they did?
>>98660937>The server ran Beast: The Primordial (the head ST's favorite by far)Check that man's hard drive if his favorite game is Pedo: the Molesting
>>98661200>>98661254Why haven't you committed suicide yet?
>>98661354Can you answer my question first?
>>98660937>Beast: the Primordial is someone's favorite nWoD gameFor some reason that's the most surprising part of the story to me.
>>98661800I am still willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on that. Maybe they just like the idea of being a big, scary monster.Well, as an update, the final yab happened.>Hey everyone, here is an announcement on the state of the Server and its future.>When I originally made the Server I had a certain vision that, in part due to certain mistakes and inexperience on my own part, the Server has failed to achieve. On top of that, the entire Moderator team has found itself rather unhappy with many parts of the Server in ways that cannot be easily reconciled, both on the IC and OOC level.>Adding onto this comes the fact that we Moderators and the STs have had our differences in how the Server should be run, which has lead to the STs announcing their future departures.>As such, this is what is going to happen:>[This server] will come to an end by the end of this month. However, we are going to make a new Server that will go live with the beginning of the next month. One built with the lessons we learned on this one in mind and a much more concrete grasp on the vision and expectations we had for this Server. The Moderator team will stay the same for that Server. Those interested in following us may apply to do so, as instead of simply having the Server be open for anyone to join, we want to put a proper application process in place where things like expectations will be discussed beforehand. Most of the mechanical rules changes we have made thus far will likely remain the same. We are also going to implement a way for Characters to be able to transition from this Server to the other one with relative ease from a storytelling perspective, so you can continue playing Characters you've grown fond of on this Server on the new Server.>Regarding [this server], I am going to try and finish up my ST-Events by the end of this month. The Server will be deleted at the end of next month.But also:>The STs leaving is actually just a minor inconvenience
>>98662895On one hand, I really do hope for the best for them. On the other hand, they are keeping "most" of the laundry list of house rules and ruling, many of which are arbitrary, and "the STs leaving is actually just a minor inconvenience." This also does not address the head ST's 22 PCs and the safeguards against abuse of power.I still want to be optimistic, though.
>>98662895uh that's cool op but you should keep this thread more about broad universal observations of rp community drama and not updates on your own personal drama
>>98660947I feel like the fact that the player can make statements on lore would have been important to state on the thread about fetches desu.Interesting story none the less.
A server means a discord server, and people are playing in voice chat? Or is it text chat with ST comming in to run events or make rulings? Maybe both? How does it compare with pure text, like in a mud or moo?
>>98660932Edna, why the fuck would you even try to do this.
>>98663093This particular server did not use voice chat at all.
>>98663146No tabletop thing with maps or anything either? Just pure text? I guess that's a strength of WoD mostly being narrative and not tactical.
>>98663133now tell us how op is a jilted troon obfuscating the real drama and the inevitable grooming fiascos
>>98663163We used image links and image uploads very often, for characters and such.When I was STing, I also used image links and image uploads for locations and objects.
>>98660932Living World Campaigns fascinate me, I wish I could find more advice on the logistics of running one, but can't.I can find plenty of advice on West Marches games, but those aren't quite the same.It does sound like you tried your best here, but BigCheese was just trying to build a theater he could perform at whenever he felt like.I do wonder how many players the server had?
>>98663228Whether living world or west march (the definitions blur together at times), running one is a major time sink.This server of ours had dozens of active players.
>>98660947>fighting tournament What is it with owners of forums/discords like this and the obsession with tournaments? It's always been a thing.
>>98663938It's a natural way to get everyone in the same place and invovled in the same story that isn't like, a huge disaster is happening and everyone has to work together to stop it or whatever.
>>98663955And they always just turn into people going "nuh-uh" and the root + his buddies god-modding. The only fun I ever had in tourneys was playing heels and jobbers.
>>98660937>even dedicated CofD servers don't play Mummy: the CurseI ain't never gonna find players for it bros...
>>98663273I don't doubt that running one would be a hassle, I just think a few standard operating procedures could make it a lot easier, especially if your talking about multiple GMs running sessions that might/will affect each other.As it is now, it almost feels like a single GM would have an easier time keeping the facts straight.
>>98664306>As it is now, it almost feels like a single GM would have an easier time keeping the facts straight.In theory, in theory, anyway, one benefit of a living world or west marches server is that there can be multiple GMs and many players working together to create a vast-scale narrative for the setting.A single GM would be woefully incapable of meeting the needs of dozens of players.
