I have never seen this shit matter in any game that has it.
Of course it does.
>>98679188>Starts a bloodline with 600 children
You must not have played any games then, OP.
>>98679175>Stat that determines how good you are at lying, impressing people, persuading people and also powers 3 different flavors of spellcaster doesn't get used.K.
>this thread again
Bait, but for what it's worth, charisma is pretty useful in Shadowrun. Not only for the usual reasons of haggling prices and sweet talking NPCs, but there's also an entire branch of magic revolving around making deals with spirits.
>>98679175You play shit games>>98679188total puckee death
>>98679188Please keep all AI slop in the AI slop general, puckee. Here's the current one: >>98679319Thanks! Please remember that for next time!
>>98679175
>>98679175It's useless because unlike every other part of the game, speech isn't abstracted. Your character says exactly the things you say.
>>98679708I'd like a D.>>98680152Not a traditional game, but one of the things I like about how Fallout New Vegas did it was that if you didn't have enough skill points to pass a dialogue check, it would actually change what your character said (usually into something humorously stupid).I guess if you wanted to produce a similar effect in a tabletop RPG
>>98679212The reason that 3 flavors of spellcaster use charisma is to make up for the effective removal of the most obvious uses of charisma (rapid seduction and determining the loyalty of your minions), which do not exist in 5th edition and are basically forbidden by the playerbase.
>>98680319>HYTNPDND poster is a vidya secondary>a Troon Vegas fan no lesslol
>>98679175Play more games then
>>98680358That issue has existed in all of WotC's D&D editions. WotC threw so much out with the bathwater when they made 3e.
>>98680152>>98680319I don't remember what game this was (GURPs?) but I think there's a game where if you just pick the first rank of a language you aren't allowed to say anything containing "e".
>last week's game>have high (16) charisma>trained in persuasion>have abilities that let me reroll failed ability checks and add further bonuses>proceed to solve all of my problems with extreme violence, including situations that likely could have been resolved with just a kind word and a good rollIt's like Teddy always said->"Carry a big stick and beat people with it and talk softly or something and pay attention in history class or you'll misremember quotes."
>>98680492That's not much of a drawback. With only a bit of wit, I trust any individual with anything but a most narrow vocabulary would not find any actual difficulty with that constraint.
>>98680564I think, a thing to mark is that you must play through all words thus slowing talk. (It aids in simulating idiocy)
>>98680588If anything, the sort of words that would wind up forming the brunt of any bargaining or oration would sound laboriously artificial but not in an idiotic way, but in a pompous and haughty fashion.
>>98680637Ah fuck, I forgot about "the".
>>98680637I was claiming idiocy amidst and throughout constructing thoughts, not product of said thoughts. Think about taking an hour to form a paragraph. Painful"the" is a pain
>>98680670you could just say it similar to a jap (sorry), so ZA or say DA, imitating a starter with a tiny grasp on pronunciation. (This kind of shiratori is painful, all right).
>>98679175I have.
>>98679175You never played with rolled reactions during encounters, then.Imagine having +5 due to Charisma on the rolls on this chart (if you could speak with the others).
>>98681373now with pic
Skill issue. It lets me blast more niggas per day with bonus spells.>5eAh, I see
>>98679175Then you never played OSR or B/X where hiring henchmen and convincing them not to run away is the main point of that stat.
>>98681373>>98681377>>98682041No one played with this autistic shit even in the edition in question.
>>98680152And like every other part of the game, your roll determines the outcome of the action you describe. Dumbfuck.
>>98682518>>98682523>>98682528>>98682531>>98682537>but what do you actually say?
>>98679212Ok but if you removed the spell casting of wisdom, int, AND Charsima and just made spell casters naturally scale without the need for any attribute wouldn't those stats also suck?Constitution helps you not die. Strength makes you hit better with some weapons. Dex makes you hit better with some weapons, makes you not get hit, helps you go first, and lets you skip certain encounters.Wisdom helps you resist the most common type of spell and helps with niche stuff that might not even occur in an adventuring day. Charisma and Int are the same thing but they resist much less common types of spells.
>>98682546Who are you quoting?
>>98680319>I’d like a DYeah I bet you would, gay boy
>>98682557Yes. And if you removed the need for strength to deal damage, strength would be less useful. If you removed hit point scaling from constitution, it would be less useful. If you design the game differently, it will be different. No fucking shit.
>>98681373>>98681377>imagine having +5 Modifiers were significantly smaller in older dnd if you're talking about B/X. -2 to +2 range with 1 being much more common.It still has significant effects on henchman quantity and quality in ad&d though. >>98682105We did. Still do even.
>>986801522/10 bait. Got me to reply.
>>98683323It makes sense intuitative sense that strength helps you swing harder that it's hard to imagine trying to have a system that says otherwise. Constitution is literally a synanom for health so at that part having a system where it doesn't do that is just plain wrong. Dex, Strength, Con have such strong cases for them doing their combat thing.Not so much with Charisma, Int, and Wisdom. It's kind of a stretch to say that Sorcerer's who can use magic because of their birth blood get better at it if they become more Charismatic. Wisdom and Intelligence seem like they would correlate with divine and arcane magic but not directly cause it. Divine magic is ultimately about your relationship with a God and arcane magic is how well you have mastered one very particular thing.What I am saying, once again, Dex, Strength, Con doing their combat thing is almost implicit given what the words literally mean. Wisdom and Int not so much, and Charisma even less so.
>>98682557It'd still be the most useful stat in the game, because lying is the most useful strategy every time. >wElL mY dM dOeSnT rUn OuR gAmE tHaT wAy!!!!Okay, well then it's pointless to have a conversation about rules as written if you're not playing the game rules as written.
>>98683402>what do you actually say though?>no, that's silly, obviously he doesn't believe that, no roll
>>98683515It's true that there's no defense against bad GMing.
>>98683563The GM needs to know what you said to know how to respond.
>>98679175Between "Turn or Rebuke Undead" and "Destroy Undead" (for Divine Metamagic), Diplomacy, and the few ranks of Use Magic Device, my character loves charisma.Hell, he has a Charisma item in lieu of having a Wisdom item.
>>98684978>charisma needs literal magic to be useful
>>98680152Thats not how skill checks work, just like your real life knowledge doesnt effect your characters int checks, you dont get to decide what or how your character handles a checked interaction until after the dice stops rolling. Also fuck you for shit bait.
>>98685062It is in this case because your character says exactly what you say, no more and no less. And there is no room for ambiguity or abstraction here because other people need to know what you said in order to respond.
>>98685067But nothing you say before the roll has any bearing on the game and should at worst be considered distraction or table talk. Your words need to match the outcome of the roll, otherwise you arent playing the game you are just talking.Its no different to describing the outcome of an attack or spell before you roll.
>>98683515>The rules only apply when I say they apply, they apply at all when I say they don't apply, therefore my point is valid.Okay, then, as I said, it's absolutely pointless to have a conversation about how the rules are supposed to work, because you're going to arbitrarily ignore rules.
>>98685116>the bandit convinces you to give up all your belongings and become his slave, roll a new character>no, I won't tell you what he said, we play by the rules here
>playing a cyberpunk-like setting>my fast-talk maxxing corpo walked out with a one off prototype device in their dress and passed the blame off for it onto a “clearly defective ai”>even got a bonus for doing the job they were hired to do “very well” from the people she stole from >got a member of her cult that was causing a distraction (terrorist activity) out on community service by nice eyeing the head of security and pointing out he hadn’t actually done anything just been near the people who pulled guns >made more money in one chat with the mafia pawning it than most people make in a year Have you tried playing better systems?
>>98685163While I adore cyberpunk and will argue that 2020 might be the best system that has any sort of existing playerbase.It really seems like your gm plays kidgloves with how corps work. Every use of resources should cost a little of your soul.>get access to a one off prototype > it causes neuro degredation and cancer to anyone within 3ft, your biomon is being used as test data by rnd>inproper eye contact with security team members, possibility of being a corporate spy, you are now on a watchlist.>secured a large transaction through unexplored buisness ventures. Good work, weve taken responsibility of the funds through your corporate managed account and have sent you a fruit basket.
>>98684958I get that you're pretending to be retarded for baiting purposes, but /tg/ is known for wrenching actual discussion even from retarded baits, so here's how things are actually run:>player: I (try to) convince the guard to let us pass>me: okay roll deception, DC[whatever]>player succeeds>me: the guard buys your act and lets you passAt any point there is zero need to explicitly spell out the exchange. Just as there is no need to explicitly spell out where the rogue sets his feet at every spot when he climbs a castle wall or whatever.
>>98685128>I know, I'll come up with some straw men arguments, that'll stop him dead in his tracks!It's just sad, bud.
>>98685200>The rules only apply when I say they apply
>>98685199Nope, here's how it actually goes:>player: I (try to) convince the guard to let us pass>me: okay what do you say?>player: [some stupid shit that obviously wouldn't work]>me: that doesn't work, the guard tells you to fuck off
>>98685199Even if you're gonna get more granular than that (and I think you should), it doesn't need to be anything more than your method of attack.>I'm going to bribe the guard>I'm going to tell the guard we're new recruits >I'm going to tell the guard I'll kick his ass>I"m going to tell the guard we're here for a meeting.You, as the GM, can arbitrate this, but if any time a player who has put points into charism is just shut down with no explanation and no recourse, than you've got a shitty GM.
>>98685213Where is the roll?
>>98685213>No, I don't actually play games, of course not! Playing games is gay shit for fags! The only roleplaying I do is posting on /tg/
>>98685206>He he he I'll pretend I don't understand the difference between playing facing rolls and gm facing roles, that'll totally win me all the arguments!
>>98685216I don't ask the player to describe HOW his character climbs a tree, and I don't ask the player HOW his character bamboozles a guard. I ask for the characters objective in a given situation and ask for an appropriate roll. Sure the player can narrate after the roll but in reality shit gets old fast.
>>98679175Because you've never played any game that has it.>>98679188Work on your art
>>98679175>I've never seen D&DGood for you.
>>98682557Yeah. But Charisma lets you make frens and scare people and lie. It's useful. Lie to a guard. Befren the guard. Threaten to fuck the Guard's mom. A world of possibilities!
>>98685597But the problem is that it actually doesn't.
>>98685198What does anything you said have anything to do with my corpo’s little story of fast talking and shifting blame to lift a prototype from a rival corp
>>98685650My point was that within cyberpunk any and every action a corpo takes should come with a painful reminder they are a slave, as every aspect of their life from their bank account to their eyeballs is company property first and foremost.A corpo should have access to the finest gear and exclusive resources, as long as any and all usage of them benefits their master. My point was that by not reinforcing this your gm seems gentle, not bad or dumb or anything else, just gentle for the setting.
>>98685606What stat do you use instead?
>>98685730How do you know my GM doesn’t reinforce that based on anything stated in my greentext
>>98685750I used the words it seems like, since the implication of your greentext was you recieved a bonus as well as made (implying kept but this could be wrong) the money from the deal. Like I said I, I would have given you cancer and a fruit basket. Cyberpunk is grimm, literally a setting where dying on your own terms is considered victory and players spend their humanity just to get ahead.
>>98685768So if a corpo succeeded in stealing an electronic device during a contracting job and also successfully shifted blame to someone else while eyefucking the head of security and seducing them to silver tongue themselves into future cooperation you would give them ass cancer on principle?Why? If I’d failed my rolls I would have probably had to roll up a new character as they either would have told my boss what was up and my boss would have liquidated me or they would have just disappeared me on the spot and I’d be wetware to test new devices on. The device I stole in question turned out to be a mega virulent virus that would hijack any nearby systems or anything on the network and play organ-melting tier sounds to cause a mass casualty event but it was just a program on a tiny USB in and of itself. That my character sold it to the super mafia for probably pennies on the dollar and who knows what they’ll use it for seems like anything but kid gloves they didn’t find out what they’d actually stolen until much later.
>>98685821>give them ass cancer on principle?Yes, its a balance thing. The resources skill is a game breaking superpower, a solo with a 10 in combat sense is a nearly supernaturally proficient killer, but their power is limited to what they can kill or shoot.A corpo with 10 points in resources is a high level executive in an organisation that may as well be one of the settings gods, a good roll can allow you to command armies, deploy tactical nukes or topple to governments of nations.To counter this they are the setting equivalent of a warlock, they have sold their soul to the corp, an uncaring, merciless power not unlike an elder god in its regard of its tools.So yes, the fun in being a corpo should come from wielding the power of a corporation/god. At the cost of being nothing but another piece of fuel for its all consuming machine, at no point should you be rewarded with anything but more power.
>>98685845Legit question. Are you a chatbot?Because if you’re not a chatbot you’re incredibly illiterate.
>>98685932That seems like an extreme take, can you elaborate?
>>98685845>give them ass cancer on principle >yesThe reason charisma sucks isn’t a system thing it’s a people like this thing. Hostile, bad GMs will always ensure charisma can’t ever work out for a character by contriving some way their lie or explanation or seduction or inspiring speech doesn’t sway whoever the GM doesn’t want it to do they can just railroad their campaign and make everyone suffer. Bad GMs are system agnostic, caring not for mechanics, nor argumentation, because they themselves have low charisma and are probably autistic and thus can’t deal with anyone changing their opinion including how the game should go. Then when any solution a player tries to use that isn’t violence gets shot down they get mad when all their players just resort to murder hoboism power munchkining.
>>98685960Well first off >cyberpunk-like setting>more than most people make in a year>implication being that while it was a large sum, it wasn’t *that* much money as most people are poor being the setting is cyberpunk-likeI could go on and on about the complications and problems my corpo has going on from the GM from attempted assassination on them to successful assassination on a long time friend and associate from the super mafia to just being forced to work unpaid overtime and attend events for corporate related reasons that deprive them of opportunities other characters at the table get but basically you’re assuming a hell of a lot of things based on a green text wrap up showing where making a smooth talking legal criminal can be a fun and effective character in the right system with the right showrunner and you started telling me my GM should have punished me for succeeding in a life or death set of multiple rolls? There’s a very high chance my character is going to either be kidnapped or assassinated or worse next session while leaving a corporate event and the main complication is that because of my proximity to illegal crime I can’t really go to any authorities and explain what’s going on unless I can lawyer up and go for a plea deal and become an informant which would effectively force me to reroll a new character since they’d just become an NPC.
>>98685966>HostileMy point was that in the cyberpunk setting specifically, one specific role has a charisma type (actually intelligence) ability that affords them godlike power when it is at its peak (available at character creation).The tradeoff being they also must sell their soul to an organisation that will use them for rnd testing without a second thought. Cyberpunk is not dnd, you dont get a happy ending. You have fun living a short, hopefully exciting life in a setting slightly less grimm than 40k and then die.
>>98685985>We arent talking about the same setting.I was pretty honest that I was assuming, and also mentioned cyberpunk 2020 in my first response. If you had simply replied with "its not actually cp2020" the whole conversation could have been skipped. My bad for missing the mark with the word "like".
>>98685821>So if a corpo succeeded in stealing an electronic device during a contracting job and also successfully shifted blame to someone else while eyefucking the head of security and seducing them to silver tongue themselves into future cooperation you would give them ass cancer on principle?>Why?Shareholders.
>>98685999Well I know cyberpunk as a system too so at that point I was just hooked on your strange idea that letting characters succeed when they roll good is somehow antagonistic to playing the system. Nowhere does anything in the game or splats or guides tell you to do that and it’s a bizarre framing that felt more like you were complaining about the system itself not being even more brutal than it already is. You’re not supposed to punish someone arbitrarily or force in some bullshit out of left field when an op goes smoothly. You’re supposed to let the system and the narrative and the world speak for itself to show how even if they pull off a hundred jobs flawlessly it doesn’t matter in the end and they’ll still die before their time. So enjoy the good times and the 15,000 eddies you made off with while they last, because the Cyberpunk world just needs you to slip up once, not pay attention once, or just become caught up in something bigger than yourself and suddenly you’re flatlined and making a new character. No arbitrary ass cancer necessary. As a small aside, the reason I said cyberpunk-like is because if I said I was playing a post post apocalyptic setting with Gene modding, cybernetics, radioactive and worse ruins from a previous global conflict, runaway corporations operating as countries within a country and weebs, using a modified BRP system with some similarities to Delta Green and Cyberpunk RED I think my post would have been a little wordy, but really all your conceptions of Cyberpunk as a setting and system are more or less in-line with this. Also also funnily enough my corpo already has ass cancer. Or something. I left it vague and haven’t found out IC but because of my prestigious position I have access to cutting edge, new, highly experimental serums and treatments that prevent aging but seem to be killing me in other ways instead and thus I am on a timer to find out if I’m being poisoned on purpose or just as a consequence.
>>98686045>post post apocalyptic setting with Gene modding, cybernetics, radioactive and worse ruins from a previous global conflict, runaway corporations operating as countries within a country and weebs, using a modified BRP system with some similarities to Delta Green and Cyberpunk RED.Sounds like a beautiful mess, and very much in line with the cyberpunk genre with your characters ass-canceresque issues.Im sorry if it came off that I think players should be punished for succesful gaming/rolls, in fact I generally treat corpos as the most powerful role, just followed by cops and then fixers. But I do my best to counter the otherwise unchecked power of limitless resources by never granting them "personal" resources. My logic being that if you were an all powerful corporation, the idea that an executive could have access to your limitless power and also have any form of ability to pursue a personal agenda is extremely dangerous.Also a good set up for a game where a corp player is doing everything they can to set themselves up indipendently, although ive never had a chance to run anything like that.
>>98686045>>98686088I should also clarify the ass-cancer for good gear type logic. Rules are that a corpo executive who is in fear of danger can roll to get themself a tank. Narratively I can explain that it technically isnt theirs and they are responsible for its use as a corp asset. But funtionally this wont stop a murder hobo player from cheesing every fight with corp resources until their character is fired/liquidated. But giving them a tank, and also having its experimental system give their character ass cancer is a setting appropriate way to make cheesing fights with corporate resources less appealing.
>>98686088Ah. Yes ok that makes a bit more sense. I guess I should clarify my corpo is not particularly powerful or important outside of their role in management and is doing very illegal side jobs to make ends meet and mostly has soft power rather than a ton of meat and cash to throw around. The most personally powerful PC is my probably the ripperdoc because they sell a lot of black market organs from the people we don’t immediately kill and have used that money to trick the shit out of themselves. They also know how to make bombs. My PC is by comparison a lot more narrow in being entirely socially focused and thus able to move around relatively openly and learn things via casual conversation and connections but who can’t just buy a tank, or even realistically a personal bodyguard since the price for an actually good one is out of their budget. Mostly operate on quid pro quo and things “falling off the drone” to repay favors. I actually desperately need to not overly leverage my corporate angle because of all of the above. It would be a horrible scandal if anything I was doing was more than networking and customer satisfaction in the field.
>>98686477>the most powerful pc is probably the ripperdoc and not my corpo*The genetically engineered supersoldier is good in a fight but also biologically can’t refuse orders or have opinions stronger than “I like guns and explosions” and the hacker currently has a bomb embedded into their brain after getting caught and thus has limited options beyond being someone’s personal bitch.
>>98685991The tradeoff was made at chargen when the player put points into persuasion skill rather than killing.
>>98686553It costs less points to max out the resource ability and have acess to the private military resources of a corporation including but not limited to having squads of borderline unkillable super soldiers (such as miltech dragoons) at your beck and call. Than it does to be moderately proficient at kung fu.This is not an exageration, rules as written state that a 9+ resource skill gives you acess to "almost all levels of the corporation, as well as the ability to requisition almost any company resource" those 9 points will buy you exactly 3 points in animal kung fu, making you a novice level martial artist.
>>98686477>I actually desperately need to not overly leverage my corporate angle because of all of the above. It would be a horrible scandal if anything I was doing was more than networking and customer satisfaction in the field.This is another great way to balance the role in a way that gives you more freedom as a player. I find the golden rule of corpos is the more you want to pursue your own interests the less you can afford to involve the company in your daily buisness, because the second they are involved it becomes THEIR buisness.
>>98680524>Carry a big stick and beat people with it and talk softly or something and pay attention in history class or you'll misremember quotesRoosevelt owes much of his positive reputation today to his frequent shout-outs to history teachers, to be sure.
>>98679175Mattered to my iaijutsu master samurai.
>>98679175Genuinely, if you aren't good at articulating yourself IRL (such as if you have social autism), you shouldn't invest into social stats.
>>98683382Charisma, force of will, makes it easier to shape magic.Intelligence, reason and calculation, makes it easier to manipulate magical forces.Wisdom, intuition and perception, makes it easier to to commune with nature or the divine.Seems pretty straightforward. Let me know if there's anything else you're having trouble with.
>>98685067This is false btw
>>98685845Why are you playing a game that has game breaking options in it?
>>98685966playoids exist to be raped stay mad
>>98686981Wrong.
>>98685606>Xe hasn't read the rules
>>98679175This stat and its skills only works to determine the effectiveness of performances, acting, comedy, singing, whatever.It obviously does not work to quantify the outcome of dialogue between human beings.
>>986866932020 was silly like that, it's a system that's extremely easy to break and relies on gentlemen's agreement not to.
>>98687923>There are four official skills tied to Charisma in D&D 5th Edition:>Deception: Hiding the truth through words or actions, like telling lies or fast-talking a guard.>Intimidation: Influencing someone through hostile actions, overt threats, or aggressive demands.>Performance: Delighting an audience with acting, dancing, singing, or storytelling.>Persuasion: Influencing others using social graces, tact, or a good-natured approach.So, we're back to the fact that it's impossible to have a conversation about the rules if you're just going to ignore 3/4 of the rules.
>>98688130It's okay to ignore rules that obviously do not function as advertised or at all.
>>98688147They've functioned just fine at all my tables, and it seems like for loads of other people itt. Seems like a you problem.
>>98687923How do you quantify the dialogue between non humans?Do you speak in bear when your druid comunicates with wild animals?If your pc is making a deal with a devil, do you have to say it in gramatically correct infernal?
>>98688103>>98687754It can be silly yes, but the same openness of how the rules can be interpreted allows for a huge variation in game styles.
>>98679188>puckee aka redditor pucke℮21 spamming his commission againhttps://www.reddit.com/r/DnD/comments/1mu1m14/artcomm_braggett_hathewaye_the_songsparrow_bard/https://desuarchive.org/_/search/image/aTP0SGus7wzoh2BCsP7MpA/>posted 25 times since August 2025
>>98690697What is the difference between his shitposting and yours? He posts some lame piece of art, you or someone like you responds. Doubling the shitposting. Just ignore it.
>>98690612Who told you that there have to be shitty broken options in a game to allow a large variety of play styles?
>>98679708Something about not playing D&D.
>>98679175It's like an IQ test in the form of game mechanics.If you put points into this do-nothing shit, you failed.
>>98690612Well?
>>98679212A lot of DMs just want to roleplay social guile without dice, and rolling charisma is invoked only in situations like rallying a panicked NPC or whether PCs looks matter in a situation.
>>98691680[ It does things and it's not an IQ test. -Ed. ]
>>98692294>A lot of GMs just want to ignore chunks of rules to the game.If you're not going to play the game in something approximating rules and written, then it's impossible to talk about the rules written. Yes, if your GM takes away all of the utility of a stat by ignoring all the rules attached to that stat, then that stat is going to be bad.
>>98691456Please explain how its broken. The rules function perfectly well in that while games can become silly, the mechanics are sound. As for becoming overpowered it is not a leveled game, theres no reason why the ref cant drop adam fucking smasher into the very first encounter, except that it would end the game.
>>98692294What if you dont allow role playing at the table, I prefer players to submit their character actions in writing, afterwhich I roll the dice for them and submit the results within 4 to 7 buisness days.
>>98692682The only way these rules would "work" is if you abstracted all ingame dialogue.Which is to say, it wouldn't work at all, you retard.
>>98693515They say their piece, usually somewhat abstracted (I don't need to have a giant dialog for every single moment) and then, based on what they said/what their tactic was, a DC is set and we roll the dice. This is how social skills have worked at every table I've played at, it's how social skills have worked at every table I've heard about (that runs a game that uses a randomizer for social skills) and it's how it's worked in every single actual play I've ever seen or listened to. I'm sorry that you're such a special snowflake that you have this problem that, from what evidence I can gather, most other tables do not have, but if you're angry that there is a dump stat that exists solely because you refuse to use the mechanics attached to said dump stat, it isn't a problem with the system, it's a problem with how your table is using the system. If it's that much of a problem for you, just drop charisma, default anything that would use charisma to int or wis, and stop crying about it on the Internet. you will not do this, because you don't actually play games. The only roleplaying you do is coming on here and shit posting about how you *think* games work.
>>98693648It doesn't work and never will work, retard. People need to know what you said to respond. There is no workaround, no matter how many empty words the rulebook wastes trying to convince you otherwise.And that's exactly how it works out in practice, inevitably, hence all the "lift a fridge" seething.
>>98693696>No, it doesn't matter that you use it that way and everyone that you've interacted with in gaming uses it that way, you actually aren't allow to do that and it actually doesn't work! Your personal experience and the personal experience of others doesn't matter, only my person experience matters!You're literally on that level of that "you don't *actually* like naruto" copypasta. You have some kind of severe mental illness, seek help.
>>98693696How do you handle persuasion checks with characters that speak languages you dont understand? Or between characters who dont share any languages in common?
>>98693821Anyone who tries to use it "as intended" inevitably causes retarded shit because surprise surprise you can't abstract a fucking conversation.
>>98693838It he's to be believe, it's one of three options1. Every interaction is roleplayed completely in character.2. You don't talk to NPCs, everything exists to be killed.3. He hasn't actually every played a ttrpg, and is basing his ideas about them on memes and stupid cultural touchstones.3 seems incredibly likely.
>>98693854>the vast majority of posters disagree with you, some mockingly.>YOU continue to babble like a fuckwit.There you go, conversation abstracted.
>>98693938>I convince the bandit to become my slave for life>HOLLYYYY NATTY 20!!!! HE'S MY BITCH NOW!!!!Your only experience with the medium is through made up reddit greentexts.
>>98693981You cant crit on a skill check, it being a nat 20 would only matter if you possesed a high enough charisma and proficiency bonus, considering the extremity of the roll I would likely set it to 40, making it impossible to achieve without being lvl 20 and using magical assistance (maximum bonus attainable without magic is still +17). With this in mind, the idea of a mighty lvl 20 pc convincing a simple bandit to become their servant is honestly pretty believable.
>>98693981What you described isn't what has been described by me or anyone else in this thread.>Speak/explain tactic>GM sets DC based on that>Then you roll.>Your only experience with the medium is through made up reddit greentexts.The more you post, the more it's obvious that you're just snitching on yourself.
>>98694254>duuude I LIE to the bandit that his best course of action is to be my slave for life!>YESSSS I BEAT THE HIGH DC!!! NOW HE'S MY SLAVE FOREVERYou're genuinely fucking retarded.
>>98694324what game is that possible in without magic
>>98679175How do you play a Face Tank without High Charisma/Etiquette?
>>98679196He got that rizz.
>>98694535The one he makes up in his diseased mind solely to argue on 4chan.
>>98693981The most important question, why are you stating what your character says before the dice roll.It goes.>declare intent>dm sets silent target and asks you to roll>you roll>dm declares if it was a success or failure.It is only now after the dm has ruled that you should decide what your character says, with its content reflecting the results of the check. Whether you fast track the interaction as an abstract or play it out completely is personal preference.
>>98697756Because in a game that happens through the medium of conversation abstracting conversation is seriously retarded shit. Plus intend alone isn't sufficient to resolve an action, any action. You resolve by rolling dice the uncertain outcome of the specific attempt. The intend is to kill the goblin. Roll for murder and if you rolled well enough the goblin is dead and you get to describe how you did it is a mockery of ttrpgs.The right order is>you declare you action>The GM decides if the action has reasonable chance of success or failure and thus if a roll is required>The GM asks for a roll>You roll>The GM describes the outcome of your action."I attack the goblin with my hammer using both of my hands, is a sufficient action declaration for combat" which is necessarily abstracted because the medium of play isn't a battlefield."I convince the king to give me his sword by lying about it's worth" isn't a sufficient action declaration because, as stated above, abstracting conversations when the medium is conversations is severely under-utilizing the medium to the point for caricaturing it. It's analogous to "Since my character is an expert tactician I take the best possible action every turn until I win the combat" when playing a ttrpg with tactical combat.
>>98698644>"I convince the king to give me his sword by lying about it's worth" Isnt an action decloration at all. You do not declare the outcome of a roll before the dice have been rolled, simply your basic intent.>I would like to make an attempt to convince the king to give me his sword.Thats as far as you have the right as a player to say. It is at this point the dm now has to decide on the challenge, potentially including tiers of success.When and only when the dm tells you that your attempt was or was not successful do you have any right to inject any element of narrative into the game, and only within the extent of what the dm's decision allows for.You are not your character, you are a player participating in a group imagination/storytelling exercise in which you posess zero authority outside of your chararacters intended actions.
>>98698724pilpul
>>98679175Paladins in D&D 3e. Also undead used it as a replacement for Constitution occasionally.>>98682852Probably some shitty DM.
>>98698644You’re actually just a retard
>>98693297YOU'RE THE ONE WHO CALLED IT A "GAME BREAKING SUPERPOWER". NOT ME. RETARD.
>>98693696No they don't. The rules determine what happens.
>>98699327>gamebreaking does not equal broken.A broken option is one that does not work or fails to function as intended.A gamebreaking ability is something that can distort and disrupt the course of a game when abused or poorly managed. Resources is not broken, in the sense it does exactly what it is intended to do, being give the player acess to the resources of a corporation.It is potentially gamebreaking in that if a player intends to abuse it to powergame it can lead to trivialising most combat encounters.
I'm glad my group is nothing like tg.
>>98699395sorry you don't know what words mean, retard.
>>98699267That is some riveting argumentation right there.
>>98699950Sorry you dont know how to have a calm and rational discussion child.
>>98700000If you killed yourself what part of the world would be worse off for it?
>>98700331>If I died in my apartment like a rat in a cage, would the neighbors smell my corpse before the cat ate my face?So it depends entirely on how thrilled my neighbors would be with the sight of my faceless corpse and how much would my cat enjoy my flesh.
>>98698644Extreme low IQ.
>>98679188honestly pucky your technique is fairly solid, but everything comes across as a bit flat and lifeless i don't know anything about digital art but you could probably improve by adding more contrast and using larger + more confident brushstrokes; what you are doing right now looks like it's been chickenscratched
>>98701215*ExtremelyIndians give this board a bad name.
>>98688147It's really funny how your bullshit doesn't hold up at all when you actually look at the rules as written. The Charsima skills are incredibly useful.>WAHHH I MAKE MY PLAYERS DO SOMETHING THE RULES DONT SAY THEY HAVE TOOkay then:>Strength checks require the player to perform the same feat of strength. This also goes for making multiple weapon attacks with a melee weapon in the span of 6 seconds for attacks should they have that ability.>Dexterity checks require the player to be able to perform the same feat of speed or balance that their character did within the span of 6 seconds, including for movement.>Constitution checks require the player to be subjected to the same effects as their player character to attempt the roll. If they die, so does their character.>Intelligence checks require the player to have a perfect understanding of the subject matter and be able to explain it down to the smallest detail, or else their character can't know that. Also, Wizards can't cast spells unless their player can IRL, so wizards can't cast spells.>Wisdom Checks require the player to play a makeshift game of where's waldo or be able to intuit things correctly IRL otherwise their character fails the check. Also, Druids and Clerics can't cast spells.This is your logic. We're playing by your rules, not RAW, which is to say, the game is not being played at all.Thankfully, nobody is that retarded except contrarian subhumans on 4chan, who will say the most retarded shit to try and be right on an anonymous imageboard because they are so pathetic they stroke their own fragile egos through perceived "victories" against randos online. People who actually play games, and as OP implied with his image 5.5 D&D the system has rules for this. There is an entire subsystem in the DMG for arbitrating social encounters and what DCs using charisma checks affect the disposition of NPCs towards the character and how the NPC will behave as a result of their current disposition.
>>98699813Anyone who actually plays games knows nothing /tg/ goes on about actually happens at a table, because /tg/ is full of nogames contrarian subhuman filth who should be purged from this world for the good of humanity, but the fact they're still here is proof there is no higher power, or if there is it is actively malicious.
>>98701128>Retard doesn't understand a rhetorical questionThe actual answer is the world would improve drastically, as it would if all subhuman contrarians died. You insignificant, subhuman faggots offer nothing of value to the world or even to the human race, and it's a blessing your bloodlines will end with you.
>>98704261The rules as written don't work and charisma skills aren't useful as a result. And that's because if you try to use them you get this >>98694324Conversations can't be abstracted but almost every other action a character performs must be by necessity, ergo the other skills have their place. You can't see through your character's eyes, but you do speak through his mouth. And you do hear what the other characters say with your own ears, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to respond.
>>98704299>The rules as written don't workYou keep saying this but you never explain why, and they work perfectly fine.>And that's because if you try to use them you get thisThat is explicitly something that cannot happen as per the RAW. The bandit is Hostile and thus even a roll of 40+ would fail to convince them to do such a thing. All you've done is prove you don't know the rules.>Conversations can't be abstractedThey can, easily.>And you do hear what the other characters say with your own ears, because otherwise you wouldn't be able to respond.Except your character doesn't hear everything you say. If your character is on the other side of town and the GM is focused on other PCs elsewhere your character has no idea what's happening or being said there.
>>98704435It can happen by RAW, actually.The rest of your post is just mindless seething so no point addressing that.
>>98704282I do understand rhetorical questions you little seething pajeet. It's just that your point was just as empty and useless to the conversation as your head and I took the chance to be whimsical by making a self deprecating joke that went, predictably, over you head. Come back when you learn how to use the loo.
>>98704299How many times do you need to be told the dm decides the outcome of your check?Even following your logic you need to roll the dice first.In a scenario with no abstraction it just means you are expected to fully role play the failed check. It shouldnt be hard, you are really good at presenting terrible arguments.
>>98705517He's never actually played the games he's complaining about, it's pointless to keep replying to him. He's either a troll or clinically dumb.
>>98704299Fuck, I understand you are a troll roleplaying a moron. But you have me fascinated with the idea of a human being that cannot comprehend the concept of intent or separate it from outcome. Its like those theories about some African languages not containing words for maintenance or future. If you are real you should donate whatever you have in place of a brain to science.
>>98705517How many times do you need to be told the DM needs to know what you said to decide the outcome of your check? And likewise you need to know what the NPC tells you in order to respond.Otherwise you get retarded shit.
>>98706684>Uh, I'm gonna roll to tell the bandit he should be my slave!>No, that's retarded, he'd never agree to it.>Okay, you're right. I'm going to lie to him, and tell him we're broke. We've been in the woods for 2 weeks and all our wealth is in gems, I feel like we look like filthy peasants so he probably won't be able to tell.>Alright, roll persuade, I'll set the DC to fifteen.There, boom, conversation abstracted. Super easy. That's how you play the game. I know this seems super foreign to you, never having played the game, but this is how many social challenges occur at most tables.>Inb4 NO THATS WRONG THAT DOESNT WORK THATS NOT ALLOWED
>>98706723>the bandit doesn't know the worth of gemsWhy not just play a couple of games before posting about them? Why are you like this?
