Conan becomes a public domain character in 2028. January 1. The stories and content in them are already public domain. Do you think Conan will be ruined by this or will he grow into something cool and new
>>98703964How do you think that either of those things are even slightly a possibility?
>>98703964Conan was already public domain
>>98703964Will modifius bring back the 2d20 conan game with some needed updates and errata to make it actually playable by humans?
>>98704559Don't give me uncalled for hope anon.
>>98703964>conan>women wearing plate armor
>>98703964>Do you think Conan will be ruined by this or will he grow into something cool and newHow do you still think something like this can happen? We're not in China, and we're not in Japan. We don't have a society built for innovation.
>>98705359>Plate armorIt's not though
>>98705359Eh, honestly the only one that went stripperific by design was Belit. I would assume a fighting woman in Conan would enjoy armor if the situation called for it, exactly like big C.
>>98703964What you're referring to is the fact that the Conan stories are beginning to age out of their 95-year protected term in the US (which is the only place copyright matters) starting next year. The Phoenix on the Sword was published in 1932, and was the only Conan story published that year. Every other Conan the Barbarian work will remain under copyright, as well as any other associated material, including all the movies and the trademark "Conan the Barbarian" phrase itself. You will be allowed to use content from The Phoenix on the Sword, and nowhere else. No Arnold references. No references to characters, places, or events appearing outside of that single 16-page short story from almost 100 years ago. I don't doubt there's going to be a couple creators who try to use the newly-available material in their projects, but there's so little of it that any actual work is going to be almost entirely original material anyway.
>>98705431That woman with the face makeup is wearing an obvious cuirass. Which is plate armor. Stop being both blind AND retarded.
>>98705359Please don’t summon the sperg who will say you never read Conan if you don’t imagine him dressed like a medieval Frenchman.
>>98705596That still contains the core theme, names and events of Conan.
>>98705382>china>innovationcareful chang there's a liveleak logo behind you
>>98703964You might as well just make your own version of Conan setting.Only thing that maybe good is if names become no longer affected by copyright jew laws, but I doubt it. So that you can reuse the names for your own settings.
>>98705359Howard wrote stories where women wear plate armour.What's with secondaries thinking Frazetta paintings are accurate depiction of Howard's writings?>>98705703You are a secondary though.
>>98704559Wait, what’s wrong with those games? I haven’t sat down with them at a table but they seemed competently constructed when I read them.
>>98704559>oh no it's not dnd how do i play it its a mistery
>>98705359Conan stories had both plate arnor and warrior women - not many of the latter, but a couple, and they were skilled fighters. Armor depicted in OP doesn't seem too heavy, either. What's supposed to be the problem?
>>98707749Howard generally liked the idea of exceptional women. Shadow of the Vulture and Dark Agnes stories are set in explicitly patriarchal historical settings, but Red Sonya and Agnes de Chastillon are portrayed as equally competent warriors as men and they are allowed to be independent and even arrogant, even if most normal women are still trad and submissive.
>>98707749>Conan stories had both plate arnor and warrior women - not many of the latter, but a couple, and they were skilled fighters. Armor depicted in OP doesn't seem too heavy, either. What's supposed to be the problem?There is a large segment of so called "Conan fans"- in fact probably most of the Conan "fandom" who have never read the original stories and have gained the entirety of their knowledge of the Hyborian age on Frazetta art, Conan Comics and the Conan movies. The Hyborian age they envision in their head is a primal, untamed savage world full to the brim with shirtless barbarians and enslaved, servile women.When told that their vision of the Hyborian age is completely wrong, that the actual Hyborian age is basically just historical fiction with the numbers filed off as an amalgamation of Howard's favorite time periods (The Middle Ages, The American Frontier, Ancient Egypt, The Golden Age of Piracy and Cossack Eastern Europe to name a few) and that Howard quite liked his warrior women these so called "fans" start going into a seething frenzy.
>>98707996>they envision in their head is a primal, untamed savage world full to the brim with shirtless barbarians and enslaved, servile womenI thought John Norman had that covered in his Gor-books
>>98707900Agnes and Sonya in particular seem like outright statements of what he liked in a tomboy.
>>98703964Wasn't he already public domain? I thought only some stories were copyrighted
>>98708031the same foids who call conan problematic love gor lmao
>>98707996To be fair to the vibes-based quasi-fans, even a good chunk of the non-pastiches have Conan in the wilds of his world, or else if he's in a civilization, it's a degenerate one in open decline.
do people still write fiction these days?
>>98707556>Howard wrote stories where women wear plate armour.Yeah, Dark Agnes and Shadow of the Vulture, not fucking Conan, you secondary fag.
>>98709173can't imagine why they wouldn't want to
>>98707996Please tell me which Conan story had a woman dressed in full plate. Just one.
>>98709279The fuck did Sci Fi do?
>>98709271Aren't all his stories supposed to be in the same continuity? I know the Conan and Kull the Conqueror stuff have some references to each other, at least.
>>98709366Empirical evidence can lead to uncomfortable outcomes.
>>98709371Yeah, Hyborian age is just pre-historical world before it split into continents.
>>98709371The same continuity separated by thousands of years. Howard was big on genetic memory, and at least three of his stories deal with a character from the early 20th century getting bonked on the head and reliving his ancestor's life. I think it's People of the Dark, Children of the Night, and Cairn on the Headland. So for him Kyll, Conan, Conrad, etc. are all a seamless march through the eons. The point is, while Howard wasn't explicit about which stories made up this continuity, there are still very clear breaks in era, and to my knowledge there isn't a single CONAN story that contains a woman in plate, mail, or armor of any sort, like the other anon likes to disingenuously imply. The closest you might get is Miruiela in Jewels of Gwahlur, and those are literal titty plates. Even then, I can't firmly recall if Sonja or Agnes actually wore plate.
>>98709288Conan stories had both fighting women and plate. Now, if we were talking about illustrations for some specific Conan story, it'd be pertinent to point out that there's no woman im plate in that story, but since we're talking about an illustration for an RPG and it's been established that both fighting women and plate exist in the setting, it's fine. Also you need to get your eyes checked if any of the armor in OP's pic looks like full plate to you.
>>98709288The woman in OP is not dressed in full plate. She has a breastplate and greaves on, not full head to toe plate armor.And armored women are not uncommon in Howard's other stories>It was a woman, dressed as von Kalmbach had not seen even the dandies of France dressed. She was tall, splendidly shaped, but lithe. From under a steel cap escaped rebellious tresses that rippled red gold in the sun over her compact shoulders. High boots of Cordovan leather came to her mid-thighs, which were cased in baggy breeches. She wore a shirt of fine Turkish mesh-mail tucked into her breeches. Her supple waist was confined by a flowing sash of green silk, into which were thrust a brace of pistols and a dagger, and from which depended a long Hungarian saber. Over all was carelessly thrown a scarlet cloak.A woman in a shirt of mail armor and a helmet with riding boots. An armored woman by all accounts.
>>98709447>and to my knowledge there isn't a single CONAN story that contains a woman in plate, mail, or armor of any sort, like the other anon likes to disingenuously imply. The closest you might get is Miruiela in Jewels of Gwahlur, and those are literal titty plates. Even then, I can't firmly recall if Sonja or Agnes actually wore plate.The secondary reveals himself as not having read any of Howard's stories.See >>98709637How is a "shirt of fine Turkish mesh-mail" and "a steel cap" and "high boots" (which functioned as armor in the period) not armor? Are you literally retarded?
>>98709279Source?
>>98709647>Are you literally retarded?Conan, you utter moron. Conan. Not Howard's historical fiction, you stupid, disingenuous, obtuse, worthless faggot.
>>98710213The Secondary ignores the fact that the CONAN stories and the HISTORICAL stories written by Howard are so closesly related that Howard REWROTE the Conan story The Black Stranger nearly word by word into the HISTORICAL story Swords of the Red Brotherhood.The Conan stories are historical tales with a fantasy paint slapped hastily over them, secondary. If Howard would have used something in a historical tale he would be absolutely fine with using it in the Hyborian age.
>>98710490>If Howard would have used something in a historical tale he would be absolutely fine with using it in the Hyborian age.How the fuck are you going to call me a secondary when the basis of your argument is "this is what I believe Howard would do" while my argument is "this is what Howard did, and what he didn't"? You're arguing from an entirely hypothetical standpoint, a fucking presumption. You can't site one work then claim it applies to an entirely seperate story. That's not even getting into the fact Black Stranger came first, not Swords of the Red Brotherhood.And no matter how you whinge, no one is going to give a fuck that Aquilonia is a late medieval kingdom. It's not the basis for the entire setting, and arguably is the greatest outlier since it's neighbors are considerably earlier in their technological development.
>Do you think Conan will be ruined by thisConan has been ruined for nearly a century already. In the original stories he was a thoughtful, philosophical person and the point was that people from "savage" cultures weren't inherently inferior, and that civilization vs savagery was more of a philosophical difference than an intellectual one. Then after Howard died new writers all depicted him as a retarded bumbling caveman bruteforcing his way through everything.
>>98711068Nah, that's not true. The comics portray him pretty accurately.
>>98711044Secondary has no reading comprehension>Howard are so closesly related that Howard REWROTE the Conan story The Black Stranger nearly word by word into the HISTORICAL story Swords of the Red Brotherhood>That's not even getting into the fact Black Stranger came first, not Swords of the Red BrotherhoodYou do know what REWROTE means, right?>And no matter how you whinge, no one is going to give a fuck that Aquilonia is a late medieval kingdom. It's not the basis for the entire setting, and arguably is the greatest outlier since it's neighbors are considerably earlier in their technological development.D-Dude Aquilonia is an outlierIt isn't.All the kingdoms around aquilonia have similar technology levels to aquilonia beside the pictish wilderness. Several other places in the Hyborian age are inspired by later historical periods than the middle ages, from 18th century Cosacks to 17th century Pirates to Victorian afghansThe only places in the Hyborian age that correspond to your retarded bronze age headcanon are stygia and shem. The rest are either stone age or on the level of the middle ages or past it.You so desperately hate Howard's actual world that he created because you are too retarded to read pulp stories, you got your knowledge of the world from art made decades after Howard died. You get filtered by disposable pulp stories published in cheap magazines.>>98711083No they portray him as a retard who never wears armor because they're written by people too retarded to read literal pulp stories written for semi literate hicks and factory workers
It won’t matter because the majority of Conan stories won’t be PD till 2028-2029 and a good portion won’t be until 2047.
>>98711157>secondary>referencing an rpgYou are literally a secondary. kys
>>98711157>No they portray him as a retard who never wears armor because they're written by people too retarded to read literal pulp stories written for semi literate hicks and factory workersNo, he usually wears armor when would wear armor, when he's a soldier or in an army in some way. When he's just a broke ass dude wandering around, or when he is a thief doing thief shit, he doesn't wear heavy armor, because he wouldn't wear heavy armor, just like in the fucking books. It's obvious you saw a single cover one time and have assumed that everything is like that always.
>>98705596>content from The Phoenix on the Sword, and nowhere else. No Arnold references. No references to characters, places, or events appearing outside of that single 16-page short story from almost 100 years agoNot really, half of Conan is already in the public domain, including his first appearance, because of this, Blaze could publish its comics in the United States.
>>98711157>Secondary has no reading comprehension>You do know what REWROTE means, right?Given your inability to grasp basic causality, you may genuinely be retarded. Here, let me walk you through it so even you may understand. In order to rewrite something it must first be written. In order to rewrite Swords of the Red Brotherhood into a Conan story it must come first. It doesn't. The Black Stranger was written first around the same time as Red Nails (a story featuring a pirate from the Red Brotherhood, Valeria), was rejected from publication, and was then rewritten into Swords of the Red Brotherhood.>Aquilonia is an outlierYeah, it is. Nemedia, literally next door to Aquilonia, still uses chariots.>If he had returned from his villa, he would of course have come in his chariot, for it is a long way—and who ever heard of Kallian Publico travelling otherwise? . . . and I've heard no such thing, nor seen any chariots, except those which always pass along the streets just at dusk.'To the west is the stone age Pictlands. To the south is the Zingarans who you describe as 17th century pirates despite the fact they never sail around in anything more sophisticated than a galley. To the north is Cimmeria which despite the steel metallurgy still operates as iron age tribal groups.>you are too retarded to read pulp storiesYou have never picked up a Howard book in your life. I've been to his house. Hell, I even donated cash to fund the repairs it needs, such as termite damage on the western side. Fuck you.
>>98710490>The Secondary ignores the fact that the CONAN stories and the HISTORICAL stories written by Howard are so closesly related that Howard REWROTE the Conan story The Black Stranger nearly word by word into the HISTORICAL story Swords of the Red BrotherhoodHe also did the opposite a lot, the first Conan story, was a rewrite of by this axe I rule.
>>98711680Ablaze tried to claim that a number of their comics adapted public domain material, but got hit with a C&D as soon as they started selling in the U.S. and their distributor halted orders (https://bleedingcool.com/comics/diamond-cancels-conan-cimmerian-queen-of-the-black-coast-legal-threats/). They were only able to publish by drawing up an agreement with Conan Properties, just like everybody else who's made licensed Conan material has had to (https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/45036/ablaze-gets-green-light-uncensored-conan-comics-series-the-cimmerian). Outside of the U.S. they can license them as public domain, but inside the U.S. they got slapped down and had to play ball just like Marvel, Dark Horse, etc.
>>98712375It seems to be a John Carter situation
>>98711562You have never read a conan story in your life.>>98711576Conan always wears armor when expecting combat.Apparently you don't understand this.>>98711710No, the Black Stranger was written first and then REWRITTEN to a pirate story. Which is what I originally stated, retard.>muh nemedians are bronze ageCOPE>The king and his allies moved westward at the head of fifty thousand men—knights in shining armor with their pennons streaming above their helmets, pikemen in steel caps and brigandines, cross-bowmen in leather jerkins. They crossed the border, took a frontier castle and burned three mountain villages, and then, in the valley of the Valkia, ten miles west of the boundary line, they met the hosts of Conan, king of AquiloniaShining armor, Pikemen in "steel caps" and "Brigandines", Crossbowmen in "leather jerkins". Really evokes the Bronze age!>To the south is the Zingarans who you describe as 17th century pirates despite the fact they never sail around in anything more sophisticated than a galleyThe Zingarans literally live in Castles, have knights and wear plate armor you absolute retard. Here's how a castle of theirs is described>There was a dry moat, half filled with debris in some places. They clattered across the drawbridge and through the arch of the gate. Behind them the portcullis fell with a sullen clang. They came into a bare courtyard, grown with straggling grass, and with a well in the middle. Shacks for the men-at-arms straggled about the bailey wall, and women, slatternly or decked in gaudy finery, looked from the doors. Fighting-men in rusty mail tossed dice on the flags under the arches. It was more like a bandit's hold than the castle of a nobleman.Very Bronze age! Nothing Medieval about it!>You have never picked up a Howard book in your life. I've been to his house. Hell, I even donated cash to fund the repairs it needs, such as termite damage on the western side. Fuck you.Stop LARPing
And then we can look at How Howard describes his pirates>Even as she looked, Conan stepped out from among the boulders and faced them, sword in hand. They gave back with yells of menace and surprize; then halted uncertainly to glare at this figure which had appeared so suddenly from the rocks. There were some seventy of them, a wild horde made up of men from many nations: Kothians, Zamorians, Brythunians, Corinthians, Shemites. Their features reflected the wildness of their natures. Many bore the scars of the lash or the branding-iron. There were cropped ears, slit noses, gaping eye-sockets, stumps of wrists—marks of the hangman as well as scars of battle. Most of them were half naked, but the garments they wore were fine; gold-braided jackets, satin girdles, silken breeches, tattered, stained with tar and blood, vied with pieces of silver-chased armor. Jewels glittered in nose-rings and ear-rings, and in the hilts of their daggers.>The stranger was as tall as either of the freebooters, and more powerfully built than either, yet for all his size he moved with pantherish suppleness in his high, flaring-topped boots. His thighs were cased in close-fitting breeches of white silk, his wide-skirted sky-blue coat open to reveal an open-necked white silken shirt beneath, and the scarlet sash that girdled his waist. There were silver acorn-shaped buttons on the coat, and it was adorned with gilt-worked cuffs and pocket-flaps, and a satin collar. A lacquered hat completed a costume obsolete by nearly a hundred years. A heavy cutlass hung at the wearer's hip.Very Bronze age! Nothing about the Golden age of Piracy about them!Bronze age secondaries are literal autists obessed with worldbuilding and coherency when in reality Howard just wrote a kitchen sink setting of his favorite time periods where Conan could fight ancient egyptians one story to medieval knights and victorian afghans in the other.
>>98713585>Very Bronze ageIt is very rare for somebody to actually set their works in it, most of the time, it is middle age but with more city states.
>>98707556>>98707996Sorry bookfag, but if I have to pick between a Frazetta painting and some scribbles, the big tiddy slave girl that I can see comes out ahead every time.>>98708031You should have seen how excited my wife looked when she heard about how awfully sexist and degrading those books are lmao
>>98713567>Conan always wears armor when expecting combat.>Apparently you don't understand this.There are plenty of stories where Conan doesn't expect combat, because he is being a sneaky thief, or he is just travelling around. Is it your contention that Conan infiltrated the tower of the elephant decked out in full plate, you fucking spaz?
>>98709366Creative writing classes often have "no genre fiction" rules because it can result in "here are ten pages about my setting's lore and cool descriptive scenes" aka not productive creative writing.However, I personally found it very restrictive when it comes to subject matter. They basically want you to write about two normal people talking about nothing.
So who has a Conan story ready to go Jan 1?
>>98718250Why are you defending the shitty comics and art that show Conan continually half naked in every situation conceivable you absolute autist?>>98718198Because you are a low IQ autist who gets filtered by literal pulp stories written for factory workers and dockhands.
>>98718264Preferably black, gay, and fat.Creative writing classes are a spook, by the by. No actual useful teaching is done in them. Stephen King got told by his college creative writing professor that he was a hack who would never amount to anything, and while he is certainly a hack, he could probably buy his teach's heart to replace his coke-fried own.
>>98713585The whole point of the Hyborean Age was REH going 'wow, historical fiction requires a lot of time spent on research for authenticity, and I don't want to do that all the time, nor can I profit from not selling manuscripts, so let's not."Which isn't to say he didn't ever, quite a lot of his stuff is very historically rooted. Though at times he cheats to do it (Solomon Kane in uncharted inner Africa) or relies on very 'zoomed in' settings (Dark Agnes).
>>98709279I'd drop this class day one and give this professor a toxic review on ratemyprofessor. What in the world worth writing about doesn't involve ANY sex, violence, disturbing circumstances, or emotional turmoil?
>>98718679It is because he lacked research material, in one of his detective stories, opened with a dude frustrated for not finding any material about African tribes in a library.
>>98718663>and fat.Don't worry, the body positivity movement was set on fire by Ozempic
>>98718439Both the seventies marvel comics and the late 90s early 2000s dark horse comics are fun as fuck, and he isn't half naked in "every situation conceivable."Why are you so angry about comics that you've obviously never read?
>>98718679I have pointed that out constantly.However the post-Howard conan comics, books and movies ignore Howard's vision.Autists in particular despise based historical kitchen sink fantasy and are obsessed with worldbuilding and coherency and try to depict the hyborian age as something it isn't>>98719589Why do you get filtered by pulp stories written for 90IQ dockhands to read after a day at work?This isn't joyce we're talking about here
>>98720122Howard was very consistent with his world building, he even wrote an article explaining it.https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Hyborian_Age(Nothing in this article is to be considered as an attempt to advance any theory in opposition to accepted history. It is simply a fictional background for a series of fiction-stories. When I began writing the Conan stories a few years ago, I prepared this 'history' of his age and the peoples of that age, in order to lend him and his sagas a greater aspect of realness. And I found that by adhering to the 'facts' and spirit of that history, in writing the stories, it was easier to visualize (and therefore to present) him as a real flesh-and-blood character rather than a ready-made product. In writing about him and his adventures in the various kingdoms of his Age, I have never violated the 'facts' or spirit of the 'history' here set down, but have followed the lines of that history as closely as the writer of actual historical-fiction follows the lines of actual history. I have used this 'history' as a guide in all the stories in this series that I have written.)
>>98720322He also acknowledged his setting was created because he hated caring about historical accuracy and was fine putting medieval knights next to stone age savages
>>98713567>Stop LARPingYou're an autistic faggot projecting your bullshit on everyone you don't agree with, even contradicting Howard's written work with your headcanon, asserting your beliefs based on loose inference from separate writings. You'll argue with everyone forever, because no matter how much time you waste here, no matter how right you think you are, no one will ever care and keep on posting things that make you seethe.I do hope you get the chance to visit the Howard home one day, though. It's comfy.
>>98720540I imagined his room to be a bit bigger
>>98720122>Why do you get filtered by pulp stories written for 90IQ dockhands to read after a day at work?>This isn't joyce we're talking about hereI've read the stories. I'm also in the process of reading the comic. Why are you letting yourself get filtered by a 22 page comic from the 70s for 13 year old boys?
>>98718198This pic implies that if I don't want (unnecessary) wars I shouldn't be reading war accounts/military fiction
>>98720540Autistic seething You suggested the Nemedians were le bronze age and when shown that they have literal knights and troops in brigandine you switched to a different subjectyour autistic headcanon based on frazetta paintings will never apply to howard's work and all your spergouts won't change that
>>98720804Well, you shouldn't be masturbating to it at the very least.
>>98720887>You suggested the Nemedians were le bronze ageI have not once implied, or even used the word bronze in any of my posts, faggot. I have pointed out that chariots are not only still in use by Nemedia, but common. For reasons you can't explain, an outdated piece of technology is still in common use within a country that has "knights" and cavalry and castles which everyone knows is exclusive to post-medieval civilizations, directly bordering another late medieval kingdom. How about explaining iron age Cimmeria, Vanaheim, and Asgard? Maybe why directly west of Aquilonia are picts pretending to be american indians? Perhaps you can explain the lack of anything more complex than a galley? For 17th century spaniards the zingarans seem to lack caravels of any sort. So, are you going to address that, or are you going to keep screeching about brigandine and "literal knights"? Are you going to continue eating your own damn foot for everyone to see? Drop the dumbass crusade dictating Conan is a late medieval world.>>98720595>I imagined his room to be a bit biggerIt's actually the back porch that was sealed up and converted into a room. The window on the left leads to his mother's room. The house itself is really small, though not bad by great depression standards. Howard actually did so well for himself he was one of two people in town that owned a car, at the time.
>>98720804There probably is a disconnect if you claim to oppose the war in whateverstan on behalf of the hæbræic lobby, but the thought of going to kill whateverstanis on behalf of the hæbræic lobby makes you rock hard.
>>98709447>the same continuity separated by thousands of years>Howard was big on genetic memorySounds like another writer on the Eternal Champion concept.
>>98721081>I have not once implied, or even used the word bronze in any of my posts,I think that anon went insane from all the bronzeagefags, those who claim>"my setting isn't generic middle age, it is Bronze age based!!! I based it on the time period between the fall of the Roman empire, and before the Renaissance.Without any hint of self-awareness. >picts pretending to be american indians?Half of the picts became ameridians, while the European half became dwarf-like.Their far western islands became the North American continent.
>>98709279At that point just rip off Steven Universe and call it a day
>>98721222>Sounds like another writer on the Eternal Champion concept.It was fairly common back then, all of Burroughs characters actually lived in the same world.And Conan's first story, the one before Howard invented his hypeborea, was about Conan's reincarnation.Even then, it was common for writers to treat their characters as actors, like Ozamu Tezuka did.
>>98721081>I have pointed out that chariots are not only still in use by Nemedia, but common. For reasons you can't explain, an outdated piece of technology is still in common use within a country that has "knights" and cavalry and castles which everyone knows is exclusive to post-medieval civilizations, directly bordering another late medieval kingdomBecause Howard thought chariots were cool. Because he wasn't an autist like you>How about explaining iron age Cimmeria, Vanaheim, and Asgard? Vanaheim and Asgard are viking age, not iron age. Cimmerians are hunter gatherer gaels with ironworking.All of these are because Howard thought it was cool.>muh galleysHoward describes the ships of the Hyborian age like this>The Argus was a small sturdy ship, typical of those trading- craft which ply between the ports of Zingara and Argos and the southern coasts, hugging the shoreline and seldom venturing far into the open ocean. It was high of stern, with a tall curving prow; broad in the waist, sloping beautifully to stem and stern. It was guided by the long sweep from the poop, and propulsion was furnished mainly by the broad striped silk sail, aided by a jibsail. The oars were for use in tacking out of creeks and bays, and during calms. There were ten to the side, five fore and five aft of the small mid-deck. He also describes ships in other stories with "poop" decks which ships of ancient greece did not have>So, are you going to address that, or are you going to keep screeching about brigandine and "literal knights"? Are you going to continue eating your own damn foot for everyone to see? Drop the dumbass crusade dictating Conan is a late medieval world."Conan" is not a setting, retard. It is the Hyborian age. Not Hyboria, not Conan, THE HYBORIAN AGEAnd i never once stated that it is a medieval world. It is an anachronistic kitchen sink. Many of the nations are medieval or later in technology level, which seems to really upset you, because you are an autist.
>bronzeagefagg itt is still pretending that the Nemedians and Aquilonians aren't based on medieval europeHe literally thinks brigandine, knights and castles existed in europe prior to the middle ages.He's a mentally ill autist with a seething hatred of the middle ages, a period which howard loved, who denies vehemently that some nations in the Hyborian age take their inspiration from the medieval era and renaissance.Imagine reading this>And while the fallen king stared with burning eyes that reflected the bitter rage and humiliation that ate his heart, the squires stripped Valannus of mail shirt, burganet and leg-pieces, and clad him in Conan's armor of black plate-mail, with the vizored salade, and the dark plumes nodding over the wyvern crest. Over all they put the silken surcoat with the royal lion worked in gold upon the breast, and they girt him with a broad gold-buckled belt which supported a jewel-hilted broadsword in a cloth-of-gold scabbard. While they worked, trumpets clamored outside, arms clanged, and across the river rose a deep-throated roar as squadron after squadron swung into place.And thinking Howard had Bronze age armored warriors or armored roman legions in mind.Complete mental illness.
>>98721282>>wild kvetching about chariots>Because Howard thought chariots were cool. >Because he wasn't an autist like youAnother thing is that chariots are fast, especially in an age when horses were still being bred up to their full potential. Chariot use seems to have fallen out of style in the Roman Empire, and Roman preferences combined with putting Celts to the sword definitely shaped their use and eventual disuse.
>>98711068You're mostly wrong, the stories are easy to find too, you can easily go read up on page after page of Conan saving white skinned princesses from black savages solely because his governing philosophy was "he won't betray his own race" which is literally what it says on the page written by Robert E. Howard. There's no thoughtful, philosophical concept of cultures and races in the text.
>>98723560It's one story, and my understanding is that it was written that way because that was the kind of thing that was selling at the time, and all of those pulp tales have their art balanced against commerce.
>>98723581>kind of thing that was selling at the timeI don't disagree with you on the grounds that its exactly for this reason I feel The Hour of the Dragon should never be considered an official part of the rest of the works, its a rewrite of a short story that messes with tech levels allowing Conan to wear plate armor that shouldn't exist in the primordial setting just so it'd sell better in the UK at the time.
>>98721081Galleys remained the mainstay of naval warfare in the Mediterranean throughout the 17th century and remained in some use a lot longer than that, so Zingarans sailing galleys doesn't really mean much.
>>98722665Gauls had stopped using chariots for direct combat by the time of the Gallic Wars. Britons still did because no one had stopped them.
Admittedly it's been a while since I've read Conan stories, but Nemedia doesn't use chariots in war, does it? They've got riding horses, heavy cavalry and all that, I'm pretty sure. Use of chariots for transportation outside of battle doesn't really say much about the overall technology level when late medieval armor and such obviously exist.
>>98721282>It is an anachronistic kitchen sink. Many of the nations are medieval or later in technology levelI'm only barely following this spergout, can you cite cases outside of the Hour of the Dragon with tech from the late middle ages?
>>98723615>short story that messes with tech levels allowing Conan to wear plate armor that shouldn't exist in the primordial setting Oh and Black Colossus also isn't canon?>>98723669I think only the Stygians use chariots, and they're almost deliberately archaic for cultural reasons. In Black Colossus (where they have chariots but also Conan has plate armour) there are desert nomads fighting as light cavalry that come from basically the same area as the Stygians, so Stygia knows about cavalry they just keep using chariots as a class thing.Or perhaps, I can't quite remember, it was only because a specific Stygian prince was literally 7+ feet tall and couldn't ride a horse so had to use a chariot.
>>98723854Good catch, it does seem Howard describes Conan wearing a cuirass and pauldron over chainmail, another anachronism, and I had thought it was only present in Hour of the Dragon.
>>98724037That anachronism was probably how historians understood it at the time. I think even 10 years ago people would argue here that plate armour was worn over full maille, and 5 years ago many would argue plate was worn over a bulky gambeson (distinct from an arming doublet)Another thing I recall off-hand is that there are several references to 'broadswords' in Conan stories, but surely based on the "era" these swords weren't basket-hilted 16th century swords like an actual Broadsword but instead were probably a one-handed arming sword.
>>98724083I suspect some of it is Howard just being fast and loose with terminology. A broad sword to someone just writing what sounds cool and adapting stories from a cache of unrelated shorts set in different eras and settings seems like the kind of name that would work generally enough.There's ancient cuirasses too, though, there's ancient "bronze" plates that go back to old hellenistic kings for instance and dendra panoply armor which includes pauldrons dating back further even, though I think no one would refer to as plate armor today. As someone who prefers to imagine Conan's setting as firmly ancient world I prefer to assume these are the kinds of plates (considering too Howard's lack of modern historical knowledge) that he's wearing, with brigandine plates or roman segmented armor "plates" at most.
>>98723672Black ColossusThe Scarlet CitadelThe Phoenix on the Sword, which describes "knights, peers, ladies, men-at- arms, councillors", plumed helmets with visors And there's post medieval nations like the Aquilonian Border to Pictland which is just frontier america, cossacks, pirates and afghulistan which clearly reminiscient of 19th century depictions of afghanistan by authors like kipling>>98724132>As someone who prefers to imagine Conan's setting as firmly ancient world I prefer to assume these are the kinds of plates (considering too Howard's lack of modern historical knowledge) that he's wearing, with brigandine plates or roman segmented armor "plates" at most.Then how do you cope with Howard describing "Sallets" and "Morions" two items of armor that can not in any way be coped with by pretending they existed in ancient rome?
>>98703964>Do you think Conan will be ruined by this or will he grow into something cool and newProbably not. It's public Domain in other countries and only got some solid comics out of it. I do wonder what it means for the current comic rights holder but I don't expect much will really change.
A friend of mine joked about there being a Conan slasher movie. But then I got to thinking that a story told from the perspective of Conan's enemy as he picks them off would actually be really fucking cool.
>>98705468>Eh, honestly the only one that went stripperific by design was BelitVery, very, very, very wrong.>Akivasha (...) wears nothing but velvet sandals and a broad jewel-crusted belt about her waist. >Albiona winds up wearing just a shift in Hour of the Dragon>Atali (daughter of Ymir) is just wearing a piece of sheer cloth>Olivia wears a slave girl outfit>Thalis is clad in a narrow girdle crusted with jewels with her "ivory body" visible>Taramis and Salome are introduced in "a sleeveless, low-necked silk tunic" and Taramis only gets less dressed from that point on>Yasmina starts in "gossamer robes which did not conceal the rich garments beneath them any more than they concealed the suppleness and beauty of her tall, slender figure" and is naked two pages in>Valeria is pretty much the only woman in the entire setting who wears "normal" clothes by default, Howard makes a big deal about how she's an unusual warrior woman, but even SHE doesn't wear armour, and she's fully naked halfway through the bookI recommend you read the original REH stories, most of them are free on Project Gutenberg, they're all good reads, and none of them are too long.https://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/42259/pg42259-images.html
>>98711068>>98713585>>98718439A few statements of fact from someone who has read every REH Conan story>Women are almost universally portrayed as damsels in stripperiffic outfits in-universe>Yes, it's an anachronistic kitchen sink, this is all intentional by Howard. A core concept of the Hyborian Age is that this is extremely ancient Earth in a time before history, and many civilizations have risen to great heights of development and then fallen with barely a trace left, and scraps of names or culture were remembered to the modern day.>Conan spends about half the time shirtless and half the time in armour.>>98707996The "shirtless barbarians" and "enslaved, servile women" you speak of are ubiquitous in nearly every Conan story. For example:>Beyond the Black River: shirtless Picts, bare Pict women>Black Colossus: naked Stygian chariot-drivers, pile of 10 slave-girls>The Devil in Iron: shirtless Kushite eunuch, Princess Octavia is a slave girl>God in the Bowl: Conan himself is the shirtless barbarian, stripping harlots>Red Nails: men of the city are shirtless, Yasala the maid>Queen of the Black Coast: the tribesmen are naked; "blood-stained altars where naked women screamed", "naked dusty women postured brazenly">The Pool of the Black One: Conan arrives in the story wearing just a loincloth, half naked Zingarans, Sancha is a mistress>Phoenix on the Sword: King Numa's dancing-girls>People of the Black Circle: "a naked slave-wench groveling under the whip">Jewels of Gwailur: Muriela is a slave-girl, Conan only wears breeches>Rogues in the House: Conan only wears loincloth, harlot betrays him>Scarlet Citadel: "screaming girl-slaves", naked black slave man>Shadows in the Moonlight: Conan wears only loincloth, Olivia slave girl>Zamboula: Zabibi the "dancing girl" (in disguise), shirtless slave barbarian who fights ConanYou get the idea.
>>98724910>>Conan spends about half the time shirtless and half the time in armourThis is how heroes should dress.
>>98724331>"Sallets" and "Morions"Helmets are helmets, there's nothing uniquely special about sallets and morions other than their names, they're metal headpieces with a lip.
>>98726450His point is that they are clearly medieval variants of helmet, if the many many other medieval references in Phoenix on the Sword/Hour of the Dragon etc didn't make it clearAnyone who thinks Conan is solely Middle Ages or solely Bronze Age is stupid. It's a soup with loosely connecting themes
>>98726450They are not "just helmets". They are not just other synonyms for helmet. They are specific types of helmet, rooted in a specific historical time period.Howard, for a guy living in a small texas town was pretty knowledgeable about historical weapons and armor, or at least he had the knowledge of the 1930s. When he describes Vikings or Viking-Eque people he gave them Horned Helmets (it was understood that they wore them in the 1930s). When he described arabs, turks, and arabesque people he gives them Spired Helmets and Turbans. He would not describe people wearing SALLETS if he meant they were wearing Viking Nasal Helms or 17th century lobster pot helmets, because he knew his arms and armor pretty well.If Howard gave the Aquilonians "Lorica segmentata" and "Scutums" you'd be pointing out how Roman they are and how anybody insiting they're anything else is retarded but when he actually chooses to describe people in Medieval and Renaissance Armor you start coping and saying they're just bynames for helmets.
>>98730126>>98730674Yes but the technology to make such helmets is not specifically advanced, a metal helmet with a lip was available in ancient Rome, and they even included openable face plates together with it. Its not some advanced science to make something as basic as that.Howard used names that maybe were local to the cultures he was adapting because they sounded right, I doubt he thought very deeply about it, he couldn't have because he was writing stories set in the age of sail and stories set in the middle ages and in colonial america and just erasing some names here and there to fit them in to whatever the magazines wanted him to publish. Which is why you get a story about pirates and fancy nobles that seems surreal in Conan's world because Conan's world isn't supposed to be that sophisticated or romantic in that sense.If we were to assume the broader technological leaps you're proposing then there's no reason Aquilonian heavy cavalry couldn't sweep across Hyboria and form an empire while obliterating every old fortress along the way with trebuchets. But that's not what happens, actually what happens is the fucking primitive picts of all things sweep east like inbred mongols and conquer everything instead.
>>98730782The Coping here is insane. You're actually mentaly ill and schizophrenic, pretending Howard didn't mean what he wrote and that he actually meant something completely different.Just admit your headcanon is retarded and you want to make it more ancient because you are a romeaboo/bronzeagefag.if you want a more classical world why try to twist the hyborian age into one rather than read runequest or something.>Which is why you get a story about pirates and fancy nobles that seems surreal in Conan's world because Conan's world isn't supposed to be that sophisticated or romantic in that sense.Again, you're pushing your retarded headcanon. How are stories about pirates and fancy nobles "surreal"? It's an anachronistic fantasy setting. How is the Hyborian age not sophistacted or Romantic?>Nemedia, Ophir, Brythunia, Hyberborea, Zamora with its dark-haired women and towers of spider-haunted mystery, Zingara with its chivalry, Koth that bordered on the pastoral lands of Shem, Stygia with its shadow-guarded tombs, Hyrkania whose riders wore steel and silk and gold. But the proudest kingdom of the world was Aquilonia, reigning supreme in the dreaming west.How is this not Romantic?
>>98730988"romantic in that sense" were the words used, not romantic period.The matter is Howard wasn't as good at what he did as everyone tries to make him out to be. He's certainly better than a lot of the authors that built on his work, and he was certainly creative, but you are being disingenuous if you don't admit that the majority of the Conan works by him are adapted from completely unrelated and ill-fitting settings, hammered into a Conan 'shape' so he could make his dime from the magazines he was selling to. There's even cases where stories bleed into each other because they're literally the same story he forgot he already adapted before.Conan as a setting is meant to be a primordial world with some flexibility into the dark ages at most for tech levels, anything beyond that is author error.
>>98709279Ngl, I giggled at sci fi being put alongside snuff. It's not a bad list. It only sounds restrictive because they want you to learn how to write dialog and how to describe a tree to someone who's never seen one.
>>98731047>The matter is Howard wasn't as good at what he did as everyone tries to make him out to be.Not that anon, but fuck off. This is "I've come to a thread I don't like to complain about the thing I don't like, how could this have happened to me!"
>>98731136But I like Conan and I like Howard, I just am capable of admitting the truth. Can you admit his works are a mesh of other works that he threw together just to meet editorial demands or are you also willfully ignorant?
>>98731156Those facts don't diminish his ability as a writer or my ability to enjoy his writings, at all. I like good stories. He writes very, very good stories. World building is something that doesn't effect my ability to enjoy those stories at all. You sound like a shithead who is incapable of joy because you feel the need to overanalyze media for no reason other than to sound smart. You're literally being pretentious, to, what, win an argument that's mostly in your head on an anonymous Indian cooking forum?
>>98731200You're delusional, those facts don't diminish my ability to enjoy his writings or his ability as a writer either, in fact it takes a special kind of creativity to be able to adapt stuff so flexibly.
>>98731224>I still totally like his stuff, I just think he's not very good, actually, and you're delusional if you think he is good.Your point is incoherent. You don't like or believe in anything, you just want to pick fights on the Internet.
>>98731047>Conan as a setting is meant to be a primordial world with some flexibility into the dark ages at most for tech levels, anything beyond that is author error.No, This is your retarded headcanon that you invented based on frazetta's art. It has no basis in reality.The Conan Stories are just historical fiction+magic in a setting that allows them all to blend together. The roots of each stories are plain to see once you read what authors howard liked. They're just ivanhoe, or king solomon's mines, or khlit the cossack or treasure island with the supernatural. that's all howard wanted to write and that's what makes them great.
>>98731267You're projecting. And still delusional. But not because you think he's good.>>98731269You should read more of Howard's works then.
conan always felt like oldschool slop to me and thinking about it this is exactly what it was being pulp and allalso the setting is definitely a pastiche of different popular historical peoples/the period they were famous for i dont know what that anon is hallucinating about it is also most definitely a romantic work in the literary meaning of the word.I expect that we will get at least one moviewithin 10 years of going into public domain especially with the hollywood obsession with recycling
That its a pastiche is precisely the problem, not just that but also just his own other works in other settings that he modified because readers preferred to read ancient world barbarian fantasy over historical fiction and age of sail and native americans.Its precisely this reason that a lot of those outlier references in the works can be dismissed, its obvious the author wasn't writing that story FOR Conan, he wrote it for Conan because he was obligated to by magazine editors.
>>98731283>Projecting! Projecting! I win the argument! Don't read the words that I wrote upthread, I'm winning!
>>98731330That doesn't actually further your point anon, you can't just claim you're winning an argument to make your delusions right.
>>98731283>You should read more of Howard's works then.I have read almost all of Howard's works aside from his boxing stories and breckenridge stories>>98731313>That its a pastiche is precisely the problem, not just that but also just his own other works in other settings that he modified because readers preferred to read ancient world barbarian fantasy over historical fiction and age of sail and native americans.Again, Bronzeagefag projectingYou have read so little Howard that you don't realise he wrote like 5 stories set in the bronze age and three times that many stories set in the middle ages, renaissance.he was more popular as a writer of westerns than anything else>Its precisely this reason that a lot of those outlier references in the works can be dismissed, its obvious the author wasn't writing that story FOR Conan, he wrote it for Conan because he was obligated to by magazine editors.Bronzeagefag again projecting his gay retarded headcanon. Has never read howard in his life
Our resident bronzeagefag has gone from claiming>none of the conan stories are medieval inspired, howard just meant roman armor when he wrote about sallets and gorgets and full suits of plate to >howard's medieval inspired conan tales suck and he only wrote them because he was obligated tohow much can this man cope
There's a Conan The Barbarian animated series in the works from Cartoon Network, with Genndy Tartakovsky of Samurai Jack fame at the helm. Apparently the story they're taking the most from is Queen Of The black Coast. Given they've got his long black hair right instead of making him look like Ahnold, this could be good.
>>98731612>a kid's show in current year might be good at depicting Nietzschean and pro-White values and undermine feminism???
>>98731521Brother, you're talking to yourself. Not only that, you're assuming only one person is arguing. I'm not the anon arguing about Howard's intent relative to his diction, though I do think he has a point about Howard just using words he was familiar with in addition to what sounds best. A lot of people forget Howard was working from limited references found in local universities (which was still very far for him) and during the early 20th century; the exact categorization we take for granted (and endlessly argue over today) wasn't nearly so extensive when he was alive.I'm also not the anon arguing about Hyboria being comparable to the bronze age, as only Stygia really fits that description with everything else being up to an early medieval period and down to the neolithic. I do think you're too fixated on elevating the sophistication of civilizations in Conan's stories when it is anachronistic at best, not wholly medieval, even within the same kingdoms; Nemedia has medieval technology in Hour of the Dragon, while none of that exists in The God in the Bowl, with the exception of a crossbow and that can easily be forgiven as the concept existed all the way back in ancient Greece with the gastraphetes, but Howard wouldn't have called it that, he would have just called it a crossbow.I do hope you keep sperging out. It's funny enough to outweigh any pity.Here's the back of Howard's house with the filled in cellar. When they were excavating it they found a miniature metal axe that the caretakers say was Howards, along with preserved jars of something that would probably qualify as toxic waste if they were opened.
>>98731521>>howard's medieval inspired conan tales suck and he only wrote them because he was obligated toThe real reason was that his historical stories weren't supernatural enough for Weird Tales' editors' tastes, so he grappled them put a demon and Conan in it, and called a day.
>>98731502>>98731521Absolutely butt-blasted
>>98731746>A lot of people forget Howard was working from limited references found in local universities (which was still very far for him) and during the early 20th century; the exact categorization we take for granted (and endlessly argue over today) wasn't nearly so extensive when he was alive.It is noticeable that he was bothered by this, he vented his frustrations in black talons.
>>98731756This same reason is how Red Sonja became what we know her as today. She was originally a character in Howard's historical fiction but readers didn't want to read about some european woman they wanted to read about a sexy fantasy amazoness.
>>98731959Red Sonja was on the comics, they rewrote Red Sonya's story to be about Conan.
>>98731612There has never been a faithful adaptation of the Queen of the Black Coast and there never will be because halfway through the story Belit's black crew members start to chimp out for no real reason other than they give in to their innate racial habits and Conan has to wake himself up from a lotus-induced stupor to deal with the chimp-out. Every adaptation (mostly in comic book form) has chosen to dance around and perform narrative gymnastics around this part of the story in some way.
>>98731746>with everything else being up to an early medieval periodJust take the loss and admit that the main Hyborian Kingdoms like Aquilonia and Nemedia are late medieval technologically.And Howard had access to historical works and historical fiction which he amply took from.>Howard’s readings were springboards from which he crafted tales that were entirely his: who could detect, for instance, that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle’s The White Company and Sir Nigel very probably provided Howard with some background data for his story from a reading of the published version of The Scarlet Citadel? In a letter received August 9, 1932 by Lovecraft, Howard casually mentioned: “Like Samkin Aylward, I warm to a man with the bitter drop in him.” Samkin Aylward is a character in Doyle’s novels, both books taking place in Medieval England and France during the Hundred Years War. In the published version of The Scarlet Citadel, there is a cryptic mention of “the land torn with the war of the barons.” In the first drafts of the story, the passage was much more detailed: “The aristocrats had long memories; they would remember rich merchants who gave freely to Conan’s cause, they would remember the sturdy yeomen with which Conan had broken the power of the feudal lords in the War of the Barons” (from draft b, pp. 29-30). The reason for the toning down is simple: there was an historical “Barons’ War” in England, in the thirteenth Century, alluded to by Doyle in Sir Nigel. A similar example is found in the mention that “six rich merchants, sent as a delegation of protest, were seized and their heads slashed off without ceremony.” (The Scarlet Citadel, p. 108.) This is probably derived from the famous historical episode of the six burghers of Calais, though these actually escaped death. Much of the Howard’s story’s medieval terminology, notably that for armor and weapons, may very well have come from Doyle’s novels.
>>98731938I accept your concession.
>>98732143NTA but why wouldn't Aquilonia be able to civilize the Pictish Wilderness if their tech was so advanced? This is the equivalent tech gap of conquistadors arriving in Mexico. Its more logical that Howard let it get away from him with a couple word references or in order to meet his editorial demands than to pretend the setting somehow has late-medieval technology in the middle of a primitive ancient world.
>>98732271>middle of a primitive ancient world.The problem is that it is a pulp primitive ancient world, not the real one, so it is full of fantastical lost technologies such as alchemy, hard gold, Roman concrete, super advanced plastic surgery, a temple made of invisible material inhabited by an equally invisible monster god, etc...
>>98732340Magic is different from technology in these sorts of things though, and follows its own rules even if they're loose.
>>98732344https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Weird_Tales/Volume_28/Issue_4/Black_Hound_of_Death>“—And so they did not kill me, the black monks of Erlik. They preferred a jest—a delicious jest, from their point of view. Merely to kill me would be too kind; they thought it more humorous to play with me awhile, as cats do with a mouse, and then send me back into the world with a mark I could never erase—the brand of the hound. That’s what they call it. And they did their job well, indeed. None knows better than they how to alter a man. Black magic? Bah! Those devils are the greatest scientists in the world. What little the Western world knows about science has leaked out in little trickles from those black mountains.>“Those devils could conquer the world, if they wanted to. They know things that no modern even dares to guess. They know more about plastic surgery, for instance, than all the scientists of the world put together. They understand glands, as no European or American understands them; they know how to retard or exercise them, so as to produce certain results—God, what results! Look at me! Look, damn you, and go mad!”Not really, it varied with the story, for example: psychic powers or were treated as an outgrowth of spirituality, or a natural aspect of humans.
>>98732380>posts a non-Conan related source???
>>98732397That is a pulp written by Howard.Pulp magic operates under 3 pillars.Spirit/mind development a.k.a. psyonics.Blessings/curses from an otherworldly entity.And fantastical crafts/sciences, the most notorious being alchemy.Because of this, we can find stories about an occultic detective building electrical force fields based on designs from ancient texts, in order to protect his soul against assaults from ephemeral daemons from the outer space.
>>98732437That's fine as a suggestion as to why Howard writes magic the way he does but its still unrelated to the rules of magic in the Conan setting.
>>98732474It is how hyborean magic works, King Kull was nearly erased out of existence through mental manipulation
>>98732271Tech isn't really the issue, altough Gorm (the picts' unifier) does rule by technological amelioraments.Picts were just badass enough to resist (and bite back) Aquilonians during Conan's lifetime, without metals. I don't think there is real world equivalent, it was mostly REH's feelings about muh savagery. A more modern parallel could be the viets in Apocalypse Now, and their mentality in the movie.
>>98705382Are you implying that a generic moeblob gachaslop waifu simulator would be innovative?
>>98731292>conan always felt like oldschool slopIn some ways it is coomerslop of its time, with the constant digressions about whips, chains, chicks getting their lez on, etc which were extremely scandalous for the 1920sThere was also a fair bit of recycling going on in terms of characters and locations: Yasmin, Yasmela, Corinthia and Argos, Vanir and Aesir, etcHowever Howard's prose was great - sparse yet really evocative. He was a master of drawing you into the action and showing very lurid depictions of cool fantasy societies. Everything he wrote was cool as shit and I think the kitchen sink of tropes works in the end
>>98732271>but why wouldn't Aquilonia be able to civilize the Pictish Wilderness if their tech was so advanced?Read Beyond the Black River people. The Picts have literal fucking magicREH was also prone to giving barbarians plot armour due to his beliefs. The very end of Beyond the Black River has a character explicitly say that civilization is a temporary state of affairs and barbarism will ultimately triumph
>>98732271Your first mistake is thinking of Howard's world logically instead of rule of cool.The second is ignoring the countless more historically technnologically advanced societies who had struggle with or failed to conquer more primitive societies. Romans vs Germanic peoples, Anglo-Normans vs the Irish, Spanish vs Guanches, etc
>>98732271In real life, primitives who live anywhere near more civilized peoples typically live in less hospitable areas far from the center of power of the nearest big civilization. Think of Norwegian fjords in the time of Charlemagne or the lands of the real life Picts during the Roman Empire, or the mountains of North Africa or whatever.They typically have a harsh homeland which prevents the forming of civilization and they are a minor issue to the civilization compared to the great trouble that pacifying them would require (often due to the aforementioned harsh landscape).>>98734139Those are outliers though. Normally big strong empires just wreck the shit out of smaller, less advanced societies. Survivorship bias just means that history remembers the less advanced societies that didn't just get gobbled up, but the ones who persisted.
>>98734139There's also the various steppe peoples, who basically existed in the same fashion from the fucking bronze age into the interwar period. And Afghanis have been a thorn in the foot of modern empires for most of the 20th and all of the 21s century.
