Canon-wise, pre-8th edition (I don't care about Primaris) - how do they compare in power level? Tau are basically just unaugmented Humans with powerful plasma rifles, yes? So couldn't one Space Marine decimate an entire Hunter Cadre, as long as he is quick/clever enough to avoid enough shots? Also how does a single Space Marine face up to a single battlesuit, all the different types? I've read a Blades of Damocles and it seemed like the Tau can easily go face to face with them, according to that author. But I've heard Tau in other books are like weak chaff to the Astartes-grinder in others. What's the truth here? Space Marines ARE supposed to be absurdly godlike to the degree where they can theoretically liberate an entire world with almost one dude (like Captain Titus did in SM1, basically).Where does the super hero power level go too crazy, in comparison with Tau?
40k is inconsistent with portraying power levels of space marines or other armies.And then is pretty bad with numbers too but all sci-fi fiction flops at numbers.As long as you’re enjoying it that’s what matters.
>>98709204The average Space Marine doesn't have a Force/Power weapon or Volkite so taking the suits apart is significantly less nontrivial (yes double negation bite me) than what you're trying to set up here.>Liberate an entire world with one dudeNot by duelling everything on the world.
>>98709204Tau infantry are somewhat better against marines than most, but that usually is only shown as space marines taking unusually heavy losses when up against Tau. >Also how does a single Space Marine face up to a single battlesuit, all the different types?Poorly. A lot of battlesuits are packing plasma and melta weapons. You also have to remember that anything bigger than a Crisis suit is basically a dreadnought with a jetpack, so even if they're not specialized for melee, getting stomped on by a giant robot sucks. Arguably the bigger factor in Tau marine matchups is the chapter in question, but generally Tau succeed by focusing on mobility and fighting like cowards. The Tau are smart enough to realize that throwing waves of infantry at marines would be a meat-grinder, and so they avoid doing so as much as possible.>(like Captain Titus did in SM1, basically).I wouldn't put too much stock into that unless you wan to bring the PS2 Fire Warrior game into the power level discussion.
>>98709204>Where does the super hero power level go too crazy, in comparison with Tau?Entirely wherever the author or fanboy wants it. That's the only constraint. Game mechanics are only superficially related to the lore, been that way for decades. A space marine can jump out of a ruined building and land on a battlesuit and tear its head off with their hands or a battlesuit can 360noscope a dreadnaught and the whole squad depending on what whoever's making it wants it to look like. There's no consistency and the rule is whatever looks coolest, suits the maker's preferences and maybe whichever is more grimdark but even that last one's not a requirement.
>>98709204With good cover and being the protagonist of a story it sounds completely believable.Actual lore is colossally fucked and inconsistent. Gameplay has been steadily trending towards marinewank since 3rd.Just don't have some no-name firstborn clown on Farsight and 30 crisis suits while being fired on by like 100 drones and 10 riptides. Clowning on named characters is for Mary Sues
>>98709222Naw, they are pretty consistant - they just 'big up' whatever model line they want to sell this week. Remember, it isnt real, all their media is just a made up advert designed to sell little toys.
one fire warrior killed multiple imperial guard battalions and dozens of space marines.so its not looking good for the space marines.
>>98709204I dunno ask /40kg/
>>98709204>how do they compare in power level?depends on the writer and which side the writer wants to wank this particular time>So couldn't one Space Marine decimate an entire Hunter Cadre, as long as he is quick/clever enough to avoid enough shots?If the writer wants him to, yes. Otherwise no, he dies.>Also how does a single Space Marine face up to a single battlesuit, all the different types?Again, depends entirely in how hard the writer wants to wank the marine in this particular instance>I've read a Blades of Damocles and it seemed like the Tau can easily go face to face with them, according to that author. But I've heard Tau in other books are like weak chaff to the Astartes-grinder in others. What's the truth here?Both are true at the same time, depending on the author>Space Marines ARE supposed to be absurdly godlike to the degree where they can theoretically liberate an entire world with almost one dude (like Captain Titus did in SM1, basically).Until they arent and its someone elses spotlight, so now the marines are dying in droves to show how cool and badass and serious character/ faction X is
>>98709204Crisis suits are a bit like terminator armor with jump packs. Fire warriors are like slightly more capable guardsmen (and remember guardsmen are the best human warriors of the world they're drawn from).
>>98713581Shas'la T'au Kais is an outlier and should not be counted.
Realistically, it depends on engagement range. If the T'au can leverage their superior mobility and range, it should be a cakewalk for them, but the average Space Marine could obviously dominate in close range combat. Basically: >IF Melee == TRUE>>SPACE MARINE WIN>ELSE>>T'AU WINIf you were to write a "fair" story where neither faction is getting preferential treatment, the T'au should be able to win eventually. They are capable of tactically retreating out of melee, afterall.
>>98713868>and remember guardsmen are the best human warriors of the world they're drawn from).Not necessarily, no. They're most commonly drawn from the PDF or the equivilant of that, but1. There's not guarentee any of those guys are any good.2. Lots of regiments are drawn from other sources, like lotteries, mass conscriptions, or the vostroyans being firstborn children.The Imperium has an interest in at least having them be basically motivated to fight, so truly unwilling guardsmen are pretty rare, but quality varies very heavily. Ultimately the guard exist to be mulched in the grinder first and foremost and nobody serious is unaware of that fact.
>>98713868Fire Warriors are more a kind to carapace armoured and hotshot wielding stormtroopers, imo.
>>98713932NTA but the guardsmen are the best warriors from the planet often taking the cream of the crop leaving the dregs in the PDF.
>>98713967>imoyeah, in your opinion
>>98713919Wasn't that the Damocles crusades in a nutshell?
>>98709330Raven Guard and White Scars seem like a good matchup against Tau.
>>98713978Do you disagree and how so or are you just a little passive aggressive bitch?
>>98713908if there were more stories from a firewarrior POV it would be more common.long story short, POV characters kill a lot of enemies.
>>98713908Titus has literal in-universe plot armor yet OP wanted to count him.
>>98714003entirely depends on if you were referring to 40k stormtroopers or star wars stormtroopers
>>98713978Aren't stormtroopers literally just more capable guardsman anyways? Sounds like you guys are splitting hairs here.
>>98713829Not the op but./40kg/ is a total mess. And there’s an autist there who keeps ban evading. I don’t want to be accidentally hit if a janny is tired.
>>98714142It's what OP would deserve for being so retarded.
>>98713999Raptors are a Raven Guard successor, and a single Raptor Marine is the main antagonist of the novel Elemental Council. He definitely gives the Tau a run for their money.>‘Tell us of Artamax. He is the only Space Marine on this world?’>Pont’pa withdrew a packet from his armour pouch and ripped it open. It was a local gue’la delicacy: hard, salted sea vermin, splayed open and encrusted in seasoning, then dried into bark. ‘He is now, mighty one. But even alone, he’s unstoppable. One of the updated breed.’>‘The Primaris,’ Swordlight said.>‘His bonded brothers’ corpses indicate they are not unstoppable.’>Pont’pa offered the others his snack before cracking the delicacy between his teeth. ‘No. Not literally. But every cadre that’s met him in battle has failed. It’s not because we’re weaker, or less effective. Artamax and his rebels are simply ghosts. The Space Marine doesn’t pick fights he can’t win.’>Swordlight gritted her teeth. ‘I told you. We do not need Artamax yet.’>‘I’m trying to tell you. He picks the fights. Artamax’s value as a warrior is only half of the threat he poses. He’s a thinker. Not just a tactician, but a strategist, and always ten steps ahead. We have cornered him before, you know. Outnumbered him and his fighters twelve to one, surrounding them on all sides. Still they got away. When they choose to come for us, it’s because they know our supplies have dwindled, or our heads are bobbing from exhaustion, or our cadre support is preoccupied with another raid, or weather conditions have dulled our sensor suites. We have never won a single meaningful engagement against the rebels of Cao Quo. Not once.’
>>98713999I would be inclined to agree. I feel as if some of the more aggressive chapters would struggle against T'au doctrine, but the ones who can bring their own strategy or speed into the mix can really put up a good fight and probably win the majority of encounters.
>Astartes who are the imperiums premium elite shocktroops who have unmatched mobility, ability to use drop pod and insertion by their aircraft and very capable robust vehicles for combined arms and maneuver warfarevs>Tau Empire who use highly trained infantry employing stronger personal firearms than even Astartes and whose way of warfare revolves around combined arms warfare with highly mobile skimmer tanks, in addition have access to very capable battlesuits who each carry weapons that can lay most Astarte threats lowExtremely well matched with each other, Astartes are individually a lot stronger but still outnumbered by basic Fire warrior troops, opposite is true for battlesuit unit. Astartes have the definitive advantage if they can choose where to strike and not relegated to defensive or escort duties.
>>98714169There’s nothing wrong with wanting to avoid the general as it is a minefield right now. If you do hate warhammer threads then apply to be a janny. I would like to see what happens if any of you become a janny and try enforcing a “warhammer in generals only” rule.
>>98714178Fan fiction, the retarded author writed the marine geting his face ion blasted and not dying. The same retarded autor that has written that tau nukes require suicide kamikaze pilots (including white bands and wine, not sake) which is some of the most retarded shit I have read in a 40k book. I know tau/kelly books are bad but this one is embarrassing.
>>98709204For what it's worth, Titus and his squad were just a small part of the battle for Graia. That said, a single Marine could probably put down an uprising on a minor planet if it was just ordinary human rebels or cultists backed by a couple of smaller Daemons.
>>98713999The Raven Guard very famously got BTFOed by the Tau once
>>98709204The most dangerous thing the Tau have in the matchup is a lot of specialist weaponry that can kill Astartes with no issue (normally used against vehicles) on high speed units used for mobile warfare. How well a Space Marine does basically depends on how clever they are, with more static and aggressive Chapters tending to get mulched by inferior forces used in a superior fashion. More reserved or balanced Chapters know that the Tau theoretically outgun them to such a degree that they need to keep themselves on the move or hidden enough to not be pinned down.The super hero power level of crazy for the Tau is in their named characters; Farsight, Kais, etc. who are often credited with ridiculous stunts like taking an understaffed Chapter Monastery or an Astartes Cruiser solo. This tends to not really be shared by their regular forces and is reasonably taken with the same perspective as Marines killing the Avatar of Khaine or somesuch.
Kind of funny the tau's head of state was offed by an unimportant assassin.
>>98709204>So couldn't one Space Marine decimate an entire Hunter CadreI don't want to come off as a cringe Tau defender here, but at the same time, this Space Marine wank has gone way, way too fucking far. Unless I'm being baited, in which case, well done. But I get the sense you are genuinely this stupid, so here goes.The short answer is no, you absolute blithering newfaggot braindead redditor gorilla nigger RETARD, one fucking space marine is not taking out an entire Cadre of aliens armed with weapons that can blow their heads off into vapor, helmet and all.>as long as he is quick/clever enough to avoid enough shots?They aren't marvelslop capeshit supers. They aren't the Flash, they aren't Neo from the matrix. Space Marines cannot bullet time and dodge fucking gunfire, you stupid cunt. This has never been a thing. They don't even move that much faster than a human while sprinting because all the extra power and strength goes into just moving a suit that fucking heavy. They are supersoldiers that are about 10x better than your average guardsman. That's it. One Space Marine on average can roughly accomplish what a squad of 10 Guardsmen could do. Can 10 Guardsmen take out a whole Hunter Cadre? How the fuck do you think he's just going to avoid the gunfire of 300 blueberries including drones, missile weapons, auto-locking battlesuits with advanced AI tracking and all that other shit while running slightly faster than an Olympic sprinter? One plasma rifle ends his life. Space Marines additional toughness is things like an extra heart, extra lung, fused ribcage with reinforced bones, blood that clots instantly - things that defend against basic ass small arms. Not anti-tank guns.>Space Marines ARE supposed to be absurdly godlike to the degree where they can theoretically liberate an entire world with almost one dudeNo they cannot, they never could, this is complete, absolute, total secondary /v/ermin bullshit. You are dumber than a lobotomized ape.
>>98709204>with powerful plasma riflesModerately better performance than lasriles, and logistically inferior. Marines treat them like speedbumps. When Tau debued their battlesuits were only marginally better than a lone Marine.
>>98715980>armed with weapons that can blow their heads off into vapor, helmet and all.False.
>>98716566>ModeratelyI agree that they're logistically inferior but they've always had dramatically better performance than lasguns and are relatively often portrayed as better than bolters.
>>98716594True, but with the advent of Primaris we now know the standard boltgun is functionally an SMG, not a rifle.
>>98716636Not really? The Bolt Rifle may be the name of the thing the Primaris use but the Bolter has been used as a medium rifle by Humans and Astartes basically forever, there was no retroactive reveal, the larger, longer Boltgun was just called the Bolt Rifle for ease.
>>98709204>So couldn't one Space Marine decimate an entire Hunter CadreNo. A hunter cadre includes multiple battlesuits, and your average crisis battlesuit is superior to your average Space marine.
>>98716566>When Tau debued their battlesuits were only marginally better than a lone Marine.Considering how common battlesuits that's not great for the marines
Compare tau battleforces or army pics in 2003 to 2026 and the tau are totally different.The tau armies with their fire warriors and kroot mixed arms and vehicle support is weird to look at compared to current tau armies that are just battlesuit spam. Kroot exist basically as a separate thing and there's no meta to taking 1 unit of carnivores or something like that.Fire warriors suck and exist to draw bullets from battlesuits
>>98716735>there's no meta to taking 1 unit of carnivoresWhite Scars-like typing detected.
>>98709204>Space Marines ARE supposed to be absurdly godlikeNo, absolutely not. They're supposed to be space knights exaggerated to death by imperial propaganda. The only significant military difference between a marine and a regular spec-ops space human with some cybernetics is that the marine has bulletproof armor, which is the key enabler theme enabling them to be scary in CQB yet stupid about tactics.Yes they have bio-cybernetic augments and big biceps and gay-coded British elite school injokes, but the difference between a knight and a modern grunt is that the knight's armor, in contrast to a spec-ops soldier's gun, emphasizes personal skill and long-term survival over teamwork and smart planning.So the 'realistic' result of SMs wandering into Tau territory might have some Tau murder-blendered once in a CQB incident just like a landknecht would massacre a modern soldier in a sword fight, but the other 99% of the time its going to be Marines getting blown apart at a mile away by guns that can pierce their armor and NATO-style drone/artillery strikes.Which is fully on-theme for 40k's original themes of dark space-fantasy and satire. The overconfident knights who think they're worth a hundred peasants charge in in pursuit of glory and get blasted like retards. Then the Munitorum writes a propaganda story about their glorious last stand, and the nobles and priests funding the crusade grudgingly turn their attention to other things.
>>98716583Nigger both guns on this crisis suit shoot straight through Terminator armour, get real.>>98716566>Moderately better performance than lasrilesThe basic pulse rifles are Strength 5, they are superior even to bolters let alone lasguns, and with superior range too. Keep in mind that they also came out in an edition where S5 wounded humans on a 2+ not a 3+ like the gay multiplicative wounding table of today. They were heavy bolter strength small arms. The only thing that made them remotely balanced is that Tau have shitty eyesight so despite their advanced optics they only shot as accurately as Guardsmen without supporting markerlights. But that's also the basic bitch gun on their basic line infantry. It only gets deadlier from there.>their battlesuits were only marginally better than a lone MarineThis is newfag nonsense.Again as stated previously I don't even want to be defending Tau right now because they're usually cringe weeaboos who also wank their own faction way too hard but this level of /v/ tourist newfaggery from you retards that just learned about 40k from Space Marine 2 and lore vids on Youtube made by fat lying faggots is unreal.
>>98714719It's probably more of an even matchup 50/50 that will swing either way depending on environmental factors. Most other chapters would probably struggle a bit and probably have more like a 30/70 matchup (assuming no named/POV characters are present)
The only thing that matters is current game stats. The rest is back on the cereal box fluff you read while waiting for your bagel to finish toasting.
>>98709204Space Marines only really shine when they go up against Traitor Guard or Lost and the Damned cultists who literally don't have weapons that can penetrate their armor. Against factions like Necrons and Tau where weapons that can penetrate Space Marine armor are common and widely distributed, the Space Marines are still superior qualitatively compared to the foot infantry, but aren't invincible demigods, which becomes a problem when you only have a million marines and even the Tau have trillions of Fire Warriors. Things become even more tilted in the xenos favor when you consider things like Necron Immortals and Battlesuits, both of which are equals to the Space Marine but far more replaceable. Space Marines get really fucked over by having to be a part of the Imperium and thus being inherently limited by the paranoia of its institutions that don't want the marines to become too powerful a force.
>>98717048If we go by game stats then Marines and Custodes are the biggest jokes in the setting who can barely fight off a couple platoons of Guardsmen as a demicompany.
>>98717034>guns on this crisis suitThat anon didn't specify battlesuit guns, he implied the entire cadre were armed with weapons like that, which they are not.>pulse rifles etcI did say moderate.>newfag nonsenseOG battlesuits were like a Devastator marine with a jump pack and an extra wound. It's a significant difference but not a massive one. I killed enough tau fielded by my friend Peter to be reasonably familiar with them at their debut.
>>98717461>OG battlesuits were like a Devastator marine with a jump pack and an extra wound>It's a significant difference but not a massive one. NTA, but you did previously state they were "marginally better" than a lone marine. Flying marines with heavy weapons and twice as many wounds sounds pretty massive.
>>98709204In the second Deathwatch novel, the Space Marines kill them almost jokingly easy. However the Crisis Battlesuits are treated as a much bigger threat.
>>98709204Marines are better than Tau are as fighters, the problem is that the Tau have guns that can actually reliably hurt and kill marines instead of harmlessly plink off of them, and Tau are not *stupid*. The marines found out the hard way back in Damocles Gulf that charging into a Tau gunline WOULD lose them marines even if once they got there they could slaughter them, and that they have to actually plan their fights well when fighting the Tau lest they fall for a trap and get lured into a killzone. In terms of battlesuits, against common marines a battlesuit can easily kill them. In the books we see marines die from battlesuits just dropping out of the sky and squashing them like bugs, to say nothing of having half your body vaporized by a fusion gun. Battlesuits are the most dangerous thing that the Tau have for marines, because they are heavily armed enough to kill them and mobile enough to show up with little warning or make an escape. Marines are superhuman, but they don't have the speedforce. Sometimes they can dodge bullets, but usually they are relying on their armor to tank hits for them and with the tau thats a losing gambit. So they have to out-skill the Tau and fight smarter to not become swiss cheese.Obviously, pound for pound, the marines are superior. But the Tau are dangerous enough that for such a small faction they score a lot of marine kills, and they get better at it with time. An old bit of lore that GW had to let drop because it would have been too gamechanging was a mention that the Tau were getting dangerously close to targetting improvements that would have let their railguns snipe drop pods out of the sky, making it potentially too risky for the Imperium to deploy marines to fight the Tau at all in the near future.
>>98709222This. Sometimes a SM is a retard and other times he is a JSOC Operator
>>98713581Yeah and one Ultramarine killed countless daemons and hundreds of Chaos Space Marines. Videogame protagonists are bullshit that way. Besides, I'm told over and over again by Taufags that Dawn of War's Tau Sterilization Program is non-canon so why the fuck should Fire Warrior be canon?
Could Titus 1v1 Ironman or Luke Skywalker?
>>98717749I doubt either one of them is going to handle a volley of Bolter fire very well.
>>98717780Cant Luke us the force and/or his light saber to block the bullets
>>98713581>one fire warrior killed multiple imperial guard battalionsI mean, who hasn't? I could probably do that with a pointy stick and some rude words. Outside of guard POV stories they're fucking useless.
>>98717749Iron Man beats Titus unless he has a jet pack, in which case the odds are pretty close. With Luke, it all depends on how his warp resistance plot armor interacts with The Force. A lightsaber could probably do a lot of damage to his armor, but he's ridiculously agile for his size, so it all comes down to how much Luke is able to use his powers to overcome Titus' physical advantages.
>>98717785The Force maybe, but I don't think you can block gyro-jet rockets with a laser. They'd just explode right in your face.
>>98717749>Iron ManIf it's movie Tony he could concievably land a lucky shot. I think Tony is favored but it's not outside the realm of possibility.>Luke SkywalkerAbsolutely no fucking shot for endgame Luke. I don't know about the D*sney fanfic version but original canon Luke was a beast at his peak.
