>>OverviewWe are going to construct some mechs. This is a stand alone thread for mech construction challenges. Each scenario given will have 4 days to submit an entry. You may submit more than once (like we could tell anyhow) but each must be on its own post.The bids will then be compiled and voted on by Anons in the thread to determine who gets the contract. Voters should consider the mech's cost, effectiveness in the desired role, and the fluffiness of the sales pitch and description.>>RulesYear, tech base, and tech level to be used for the mech will be specified in the scenario, and should be followed.Positive quirks must equal or be exceeded by negative quirks, with no more than 6 quirks total.>>FormatingMech pitches should be formatted as follows:Chassis ModelRoleWeightQuirksBattle Value at a 4/5 pilotDry Cost in C-BillsSales pitch and In setting fluff.>> Voting categoriesWe will have a few. Often they will be1: Favorite design2: Most innovative design3: Best Narrative4: Meth babyWe may include a 5th “best fits the requirements” for some challenges.A top 5 of the most votes will also be listed>>Previous thread >>98585360New challenge up in a bit.
>>Challenge 17: Dark Age Melee mechWith Faction War raging across the Inner Sphere, line commanders need specialized shock troopers capable of breaking through fortified positions without exhausting limited ammunition reserves. Your design team has been contracted to build a dedicated close-quarters combat mech with survivability and kinetic delivery systems to crush entrenched positions in mind.>>RequirementsYou are making a melee mech. So it needs to have some melee weapons. Other than that, go wild folks.Year: 3145Tech Base: Inner spear or Innersphere based mixed techTech Level: AdvancedPrice: anyRole: AnySize: anyEquipment: Anything MML allows as advanced 3145 >>NOTES: We had a 3 way tie, so as always I rolled for the winner.End date: September 25th at 6 PM EST
>>98718020>You are making a melee mech.Hard mode: Make it better than the Phoenix Hawk IIC 10>inb4 fitting the Phoenix Hawk IIC 10 with triple strength myomer and calling it a day.
Bump because im at work and cant post mech yet
Forgot to upload last thread to the archive until now, it's at https://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/archive/2026/98585360/Put in your vote for the others if you haven't.
>>98721058Thanks for archiving. We get some good stuff here
>>98718020Gouf MS-07BStriker50 tonsBV: 1,118C-bills (dry): 9,000,000Quirks: Nimble Jumper, Non-Standard PartsArmor: 11.5 tons Impact-ResistantBuilt by Rambling Ral Industries the Gouf has been built for one purpose and one purpose only, the ability to successfully disable any mech in melee combat and emerge victorious. To this end it has a unique and specialized arsenal that allows it to ensnare its prey. The primary weapon system is a rather unusual chain whip that allows it to trip up enemy mechs and pull them to the ground. Its advanced jump jets allow it to be extremely mobile notably in an urban environment. Should the enemy try to counter-charge in melee then its impact resistant armor can absorb physical blows while shoulder mounted spikes impale their opponent. Five small pulse lasers in its left hand allows it to decimate infantry while also maintaining control its heat levels.Due to the focus of the Gouf in disabling over destruction there has been some interest by bounty hunters who believe it may be an asset for their line of work for capturing uncooperative targets. Even some conservative leaning Clan warriors have expressed that they are willing to re-evaluate their opinions on degrza melee combat should the Gouf prove to demonstrate a civilized form of fighting.
>>98718587Leaper LEP-3RJuggernaut75 tonsBV: 1,649C-bills (dry): 21,047,250Quirks: Hyper-Extending Actuators, Searchlight, Exposed ActuatorsArmor: 17 tons Ballistic-ReinforcedBuilt initially as an underwater fighting machine to entertain the crowds on Solaris VII in the pre blackout days of the Republic before fading into obscurity and sold on essentially as scrap, the Leaper has found a surprising new lease in life as a siege breaker on aquatic worlds during the Dark Age after a Republic force on Liberty that had taken refugee on an island fortress after been surrounded by raiders were rescued by a band of mercenaries who decided to take advantage of its unique propulsion system.The mercenaries were initially faced with a predicament as the island only had one accessible land route that offered no cover and the raiders had brought assault mechs which while vulnerable up close were equipped with long range weapons that would shred any opponent before they could close the distance. Pondering their dilemma the mercenaries came up with an innovative plan that involved some Leapers they had recently bought at a bargain. Their plan was that their main force would attack overland while a lance of Leapers would mount a simultaneous surprise attack from the water. This plan proved to be a success as the Leapers jumped out the water and began hacking the exposed assault mechs to pieces which caught their opponents off guard that quickly caused the raiders to flee. The only snag during the entire operation was when hostile battle armor climbed onto an exposed mech where upon the pilot then came up with the rather unique solution of simply leaping back into the water with the battle armor being shaken loose by their unexpected bath. The Republic forces who witnessed the attack were impressed as what had expected to be a costly battle became a very one sided fight with minimal casualties for their rescue party.
>>98718020MegaSiegenator M3C-1FJuggernaut80 tonsBV: 1,906C-Bills (dry): 10,314,090Quirks: Battle Fists (LA), Jettison-Capable Weapon (Mace)Armor: 17.5 tons (standard)The MegaSiegenator was designed by someone that was just tired of their hiding behind a fortress line shit. An 80 ton TriMech with a Mace, a Pile Driver, and Triple Strength Myomer, this TriMech is designed to get in close and reduce hardened fortifications even if one of its main weapons platforms goes down. Two RISC point defense systems mounted in the left and right torso provide for anti-missile defense, 17.5 tons of armor provide for a high degree of ablative security, and an ECM Guardian suite also provides for additional cover against ranged attackers and detection. A suite of small and medium ER lasers provide for further close-range defense as well as a way to heat the Mech up properly for optimal TSM assisted mace swinging.
Interesting question guys. Is it still Innersphere mixed tech if it's using clan info steel? As in 3145 the IS does make clan endo steel and is used in some Innersphere machines.
>>98718020Mianrong MNR-GJuggernaught100 tonsBV:2,294C-Bills: 10,612,000Quirks: Command Mech, Distracting, Bad Reputation (Inner Sphere), OversizedArmor: 26 tons HardenedAn rare assault-class Battlemech for the CCAF, the MNR-G Mianrong or "Visage" has been described by critics as a terror weapon, by more neutral observers as the meaner big brother of the Ti Ts'ang, and by the CCAF as "a symbol of Capellan might". While somewhat slow at full speed even for an 100-ton battlemech, the firepower and protection provided respectively by four plasma rifles and 26 tons of highly stylized hardened armor is straightforward and effective. A full volley from the Mianrong is more than capable of reducing fortifications to glowing rubble and instantly killing or disabling enemy battlemechs and vehicles and while the sword is widely viewed as a concession to propaganda it remains entirely functional and has been frequently seen in propaganda reels "executing" enemy battlemechs or smashing through scorched fortifications. To contain the egregious amounts of heat produced by simultaneous discharge of four plasma rifles the design mounts 20 clan-spec dual heat sinks, but even that isn't fully adequate to contain repeated alpha strikes.While no doubt a straightforward, efficient and relatively cheap battlemech, the Mianrong has produced mixed results as a propaganda tool; Clanners might feel privileged to die in a totem 'mech but Inner Sphere culture views the loss of something as blatantly representative as a Mianrong as something akin to losing one's flag. This has led to the Mianrong mostly seeing use crushing internal dissent in Confederation space, which in turn has led to it rapidly joining the ranks of the so-called "walking war crimes". Also of note is that the nature of the Mianrong's armament precludes certain high-profile assignments - in any environment that has to be defended instead of razed, the Mianrong is often a net liability even with an elite pilot.
>>98723808Ahhh damn it I forgot to save the name change before exporting. Correct sheet below.
>>98718020Ulfheðnar ULF-260tonsBV: 2,55518,855,360 C-BillsQuirks: Battlefists, Improved SensorsArmor: 11 tons standardKhan,This mech is the product of what we can only assume was a scientist being possessed by the spirit of a very angry viking from ancient pre-spaceflight terra given the name and purpose. We do not know much about the design process other than it was made by somebody, we do not know who though as the identity of the designer is difficult to pin down. Almost like everyone involved with making it went into a trance for a time. Some of the technicians report hearing faint whispers that sound similar to what our records indicate as old norse. Corroborating this is the report from those that pilot the mech, quote "when I activate the mech, I feel this strange cold hunger creep up my spine, I find myself barring my teeth like a predator animal does as a threat display without realizing it. When in a star it is almost as if the mech is reacting before I am able to, moving fluidly like wolf in a hunting pack yet when I close in I feel this burst of fury overtake me, flooding my senses and urging me forward to kill the foe. While normally I do not enjoy using melee whenever I am in that mech... it feels almost.. right, like it is as natural to me as breathing. In this 'trance' like state I do not register if I have been damaged or injured, often only realizing after I have gotten out of the mech and once I am no longer touching the mech I feel this great lethargy, as if I fought to exhaustion..."It is unknown the cause of these symptoms, be they delusion or hallucination or some other trick of the mind the medical teams are unable to diagnose properly. What is apparent is that those that pilot the mech tend to group up with others who have piloted the mech like an aforementioned wolf pack. These findings are disturbing to say the least,Hopefully what little information I have managed to acquire is satisfactory-Warrior Månsdottir
>>98723695Depends on how crazy you are with it.Like if you are using basically all IS tech except for Clan endo-steel then it'll be accepted as an IS mixed tech design.If you are someone who basically goes crazy and makes everything Clan tech except one component IS then yeah you'll get called out that is isn't IS mixed tech but Clan mixed tech.
>>98724282had it set wrong damnit, supposed to be IS mixed not clan mixed
>>98724282>>98724299damn brain runnin on autopilot when making this, I need sleep. I'll make a new entry in the morning if this one gets disqualified...
>>98721058If we can kidnap a drawfag do you think we could end up making TRO /tg/?
>>98724441If they're willing to draw im sure we have no shortage of designs.
Seems a shortage of interest this time around.
HBR-701R Honey Badger Role: BrawlerSize: 75 TonsPositive quirks: NoneNegative quirk: NoneBV: 2,230Cost: 19,173,875 C-BillsAre you looking to lay a beat down on the enemy front line? Then look no farther than this can of whoop ass!(Slaps mech leg) The HBR-701R Honey Badger is all the ass kicker you will ever need son! What you see here is 75 of shere fuck you up, built on good Lyran Endo steel and rocking a home grown clan spec 375 XL to get you to those front lines at 87.5 KPH. We included a 150 meter jump capacity just to help you skip over obstacles along the way. The honey badger has a clan spec ER PPC and 4 improved heavy lasers to help soften up a target and when you get there you have claws and talons to vent your fury on whatever poor bastards are still standing when you reach them. And to make sure you can stay in the fight the Honey badger is wrapped in 14 and a half tons of good, reliable standard armor.
>>98726920give it a bit, just in case
>>98718020Eisbär ESB-1Brawler80tonsBV: 2,96732,798,400 C-BillsArmor: 14.5 tons standardThis weird ass mech comes straight from the Lyran Commonwealth which is obvious from the pricetag but still this mech is built to rip your enemies a new one. Inspired by combat footage of the Rasalhague Dominion's Kontio mech in action, the mad bastards of House Steiner decided they should get one but bigger, thus the Eisbär was born. Because we at Fa/tg/uy Industries believe action is better than words we've included this video showcasing it's abilities: [ERROR ATTACHMENT NOT FOUND]
Arachnophobia APH-8ARole: BrawlerSize: 85 TonsQuirks: Nimble Jumper, Reinforced Legs, Difficult to Maintain, Minimal/No ArmsBV: 2024Cost: 20,479,038 C-BillsAn unusual tripod 'Mech, it is designed to harass an opponent from afar to drag them in closer with its PPCs to draw them in close, before using its 240 Meter jump range to suddenly leap on top of any that do try to draw close to perform a talon attack with its three legs or a death from above. Reportedly, the designer was inspired by a particularly poor experience with a variant of spider native to their homeworld.
This one wasn't as popular it seems, but we got some good designs all the same Okay we haveGouf MS-07BLeaper LEP-3RMegaSiegenator M3C-1FMianrong MNR-GUlfheðnar ULF-2HBR-701R Honey BadgerEisbär ESB-1Arachnophobia APH-8A>>Which do you feel fits the challenge best?>>Which is your personal Favorite?>>Which is the most innovative?>>Who is the meth baby?>>Which had the best narrative?Our poll: https://strawpoll.com/mpnb1j5DYy5End Date: September 27th at 7 PM EST
>>98732676>>Which do you feel fits the challenge best?Honey Badger because it feels like it embodies it's namesake>>Which is your personal Favorite?Eisbär ESB-1, fits Lyran bs to a T>>Which is the most innovative?Arachnophobia APH-8A, nobody expects a flying tripod>>Who is the meth baby?all of them are equally methed up>>Which had the best narrative?no idea but I personally like the MegaSiegenator because it is like an Iron Warrior made a mech out of spite
>>98732676>Which do you feel fits the challenge best?HBR-701R Honey Badger has the most effective focus on melee and while its speed can't reach everything, it's good enough to get to a lot.>Which is your personal Favorite?Gouf MS-07B, as Chain Whips tend to be a pretty rare one and it leans hard on the charging with the Spikes.>Which is the most innovative?Arachnophobia APH-8A. Literally zero canoical Talon tripod mechs, and it having Jump 8 I think makes it faster than any tripods as well - as few sheets as they have.>Who is the meth baby?Going to have to agree with >>98733019 in that pretty much all of them are pretty heavily meth'd up.>Which had the best narrative?Mianrong MNR-G, because it goes into why the 'Mech isn't really seen too often.
>>98732676>>Which do you feel fits the challenge best?>>98723361I'm probably going to be a bit cruel here and say I don't think anyone actually met the challenge myself included apart from the anon that made the MegaSiegenator M3C-1FOP challenge was that we need something that can break fortified positions. You're going to need weapons that can tear down structures for that one. A pile driver will come in handy due to the bonuses it gets and I think it can also be used to clear rubble as well if I am not mistaken?>>Which is your personal Favorite?You know what I literally cannot decide. I like all these designs all in different ways.>>Which is the most innovative?>>98731977Going with the Arachnophobia APH-8A as other anons pointed out. A DFA tripod design is not something I expected to see and frankly we need more tripods.>>Who is the meth baby?The entries has turned this challenge into a methlab so I can't decide.>>Which had the best narrative?>>98723808I like the idea of an IS totem mech and the story that went with the Mianrong MNR-G does fit nicely.
>>98732676>>Which do you feel fits the challenge best?>>Which is your personal Favorite?Ulfheðnar ULF-2 gets the job done and in style, love the shield and hatchet combination.>>Which is the most innovative?Arachnaphobia AHP-8A with its unique DFA-centric style>>Who is the meth baby?Gouf MS-07B. Chain whips and claws on a 50 ton frame, nice>>Which had the best narrative?Mainrong MNR-G
>>98736950fug, i messed up the first question.>>Which do you feel fits the challenge best?MegaSiegenator probably fits it best, but as that is my own creation I will vote for Mianrong MNR-G. It has enough firepower and armor to lay waste to a fortified position, and it has a nice sword too.
>>98732676>>>Which do you feel fits the challenge best?Mianrong because plasma rifles are hilariously effective against both buildings and whatever is inside of them.>>>Which is your personal Favorite?Eisbãr. It's like the Lyrans saw the Kodiak and then said "Och, those silly Clanners have forgotten ze claws. Ve vill make ein PROPER bãr to show zem how it is done".>>>Which is the most innovative?Leaper>>>Who is the meth baby?Arachnophobia>>>Which had the best narrative?Mianrong
>>98734808I think part of it is the question of "how fortified"? Basic trench lines would count, as would a Castle Brian. But that's very different levels of fortified, with a wide spectrum in between.
>>98738841Yeah its definitely open to interpretation. It is worth pointing out certain weapons like saws aside from being able to cut down trees get an attack bonus against buildings and infantry that make them surprisingly useful in say a combat engineering role. I would personally take that on board when deciding on a mech choice but not sure about other anons?
>>98739082when I picked Claws I imagined them used like an anteater's claws for ripping apart buildings and concrete bunkers
Okay I made the Honey badger, so I won't be voting for it>>Which do you feel fits the challenge best?>>98728257 Eisbär ESB-1>>Which is your personal Favorite?>>98724282 Ulfheðnar ULF-2 the thing s reams Nordic warrior >>Which is the most innovative?>>98723361 MegaSiegenator M3C-1F, making an actual siege mech was a cool idea>>Who is the meth baby?>>98731977 Arachnophobia APH-8A, partial wing tripod with talons just seems like a non sober idea>>Which had the best narrative?I liked >>98723808 Mianrong MNR-G
Our current leading challenges are mini me, LAMs and nebula California
>>98740552>nebula Californiacan I get a qrd for what that is?
>>98740571It was an April fools book they put out. A hidden nebula out in the deep black that had "legally distinct" IP property. X men Star wars and so on.For this challenge you would pick something from a other IP, movie, anime, cartoon or whatever and make it's BT version. Kinda fitting as LAMs came from robotech.https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Welcome_to_the_Nebula_California
>>98740739A record sheet from it in case anon needs an example. Naturally megameklab won't support creating such a vehicle but you get the idea.
>>98740571>>98740739Pair of April Fools books, in fact.First one, "Welcome to the Nebula California" has:>a general fantasy setting that includes rules to convert characters from 3.5 edition D&D over to A Time of War (Forgotten Kingdoms of Toreel)>a Star Wars stand-in that includes a couple weapons and rules for shields (The Star Empire)>a Transformers stand-in (Syberia)>a DC/Marvel stand-in with rules for making superheroes ("Earth")The Second one, "Plenty of Room in the Nebula California" has:>a general mashup of every post-apocalypse from Fallout to Mad Max that includes jury-rigging rules (Wasteland)>a Star Trek stand-in that somehow squeezes in every faction (Alpha-Beta-Gamma)>a Battlestar Galactica stand-in with early drone rules (Cobolt)>a Halo stand-in with its own Forerunners and Flood (Jord)and some brief two-three paragraph summaries of a WWII themed world named Atlantropa, a Steampunk themed world named Baruum that is said to include Mechs, a Shadowrun Stand-In named Eighthworld, and a Mythology one that feels pretty Stargate Stand-In with Pantheos.A lot of them also bring in custom equipment, and all of them have design charts like Pic Related's Jord one for making ones accurate to the above pre-mades. Don't think most builders support adding in your own customs directly, but if there's something you want that there's no parallel for, people could probably append stuff to the right of the sheet they submit like what >>98664968 did or is done with omni variantsFor those writing fluff, basic rundown is that Interstellar Explorations was poking around and got trapped because the region around the Nebula has some anomalies where you can jump into and around the region but can't jump out of it. Thus trapped, they have been exploring it as a "what the fuck is going on" and throwing up bouys non-ftl broadcasting "Holy shit, don't make a jump here, there's fuckery afoot and we can't get out".
>>98740571>>98740936And to be fully clear, this is all stuff expressly stated as non-canonical to mainline Battletech. It's directly stated as such in the book, and the "Cannot Leave" element is to double down on that even if it were canon, it couldn't affect anything outside of it.It's pretty much a Pseudo-Official space to put all the wild, wacky, and crossover stuff you want. If it does win as the next challenge, I expect that the "Meth Baby" category will be very competitive.
Our challange 17 winners are>>Which do you feel fits the challenge best?Tie between HBR-701R Honey Badger and Mianrong MNR-G >>Which is your personal Favorite? A tie between Eisbär ESB-1 and Ulfheðnar ULF-2 >>Which is the most innovative?Arachnophobia APH-8A>>Who is the meth baby?Arachnophobia APH-8A >>Which had the best narrative?Mianrong MNR-G Our main contenders, we had some with our highest ever vote counts 7 votesMianrong MNR-G6 votesArachnophobia APH-8A3 votes MegaSiegenator M3C-1FEisbär ESB-1
>>Challenge 18: Mini Me ChallengeThe battlefield has always rewarded machines that can bring overwhelming amounts of armor and firepower to bear. But what happens when engineers are told to take one of the Inner Sphere’s legendary machines and cut it in half—literally?By 3150, advances in weapons miniaturization, myomer technology, compact electronics, and advanced armor have made such machines increasingly practical. Can your engineers demonstrate that tonnage isn't everything?>>RequirementsChoose any mech and create a version that keeps the spirit and role of the original at no more than ½ the tonnage. You need not keep the weapons of course, but it should feel like a Mini Me.Year: 3150Tech Base: Inner sphere or Inner sphere based mixed techTech Level: AdvancedPrice: anyRole: Same as Original Size: Medium or underEquipment: Anything MML allows as advanced 3150>>Note: As always, I rolled on ties and this one won.End date: September 30th at 6 PM EST
>>98741955Catapult 3 CAT3-1Fire Support30tonsBV: 1,1893,978,000 C-BillsQuirks: No ArmsRecording of Fa/tg/uys Industries meeting regarding how to market this mech:"It's called Catapult 3, it's a lighter Catapult that can provide the same fire support in a lighter package. It's not that fuckin hard guys... we aren't selling ice to tharkad here....[Unintelligible]... dumb fuckin bastards.... [Unintelligible]... never hire....[Recording end.]"
>>98742524it doesn't say it but Clan CASE is added
>>98741955Goon GOON-3R40 tonsBV: 1,2046,028,027 C-BillsNote to staff: Whoever made the model code GOONER is getting beat when the boss finds out."A smaller Thug inspired by the Ocean Furries' smaller Mad Cat. Same weapons loadout, smaller package. Not really much to be said here. No the model designation wasn't intentional but we've already trademarked the damn thing. No we don't know who slipped that in there, yes we will find out and the perpetrator will be Keelhauled as punishment. Yes sir, understood.[Hang up noise] Dear Lord the paperwork this fuck up is gonna cause.... I need a drink." - Simon Malgrave of Broadshore Mechworks shortly before having a drink then beginning the investigation to figure out who did the thing then arranging for them to be Keelhauled at the nearest water port on Broadshore.
>>98741955Bushman BSM-2FJuggernaut40tBV 1,4465,460,000 C-BillsQuirks: Extended Torso Twist, Minimal Arms, Unbalanced"If you ask Sorenson Industrial, their Bushman is a 'Stalker in your pocket.' And I can not say it disappoints in that comparison on paper. The armor is comparable, it is reasonably faster while the myomer is hot, and it hits almost as hard once you close in. If the stability did not suffer so severely while exploiting the impressive torso twist, you could make a case that it has fair odds against a 3F. But you are not going to rotate a Bushman into service to replace one. Not unless the Ghost Bear touman has a model with more modern equipment, at least. Where the Bushman fares better is in comparisons to the Hunchback, or certain Thunderbolts at a stretch. But if your stable is searching for a lightweight brawler, few chassis in the weight class are as sturdy as the Bushman."-Excerpt from Rosalyn Sea Fox's Mech review segment on the King of Games holovid series, season 8 episode 14
>>98741955Funke FNK-3Brawler35tBV: 9274,733,685 C-BillsQuirks: Improved Sensors, Reinforced Legs, Non-Standard partsAssessment, CWO Hans Albrecht, Quartermaster Corps, CoventryHerr General, as instructed I have prepared an assessment for you regarding the new battlemech offered for the tender.The FNK-3 Funke is a 35-ton light battlemech from Coventry Metal Works derived from the venerable Thunderbolt TDR-5S. The Funke was first conceived during the Jihad after attacks by the Word of Blake almost completely destroyed their heavy and assault production lines, but the design never was finished and was shelved as CMW's heavier assembly lines were rebuilt. The plans were recently re-discovered and the decision was made to update them with available technologies and put them into limited production.>Speed and manuverabilityThe Funke has a cruising speed of 54km/h, a maximum speed of 75km/h, and mounts two jump jets. The top speed is slightly lower than the cruising speed would indicate, which is the result of the hardened armor.>Protection, structure and heat managementThe Funke mounts 6.5 tons of domestic hardened armor, has a domestic 175 XL engine and a domestic endo-composite frame with reinforced legs. Heat is managed by 10 domestic double heat sinks, 7 of which are engine mounted.>ArmamentsIn comparison to the TDR-5, the armaments have been re-worked for close-quarters combat. The large laser in the right arm has been replaced with a snub-nose PPC, the LRM-10 and SRM-2 in the right torso have been consolidated into an SRM-6 with two tons of reloads with CASE and the medium lasers and machine guns have been replaced with six clan-produced micro pulse lasers spread across the left arm and torso. At close ranges this assortment of weapons represents a tremendous amount of sustained firepower but significantly limits the effective range of the Funke.>PriceThe dry price of the FNK-3 is 1,220,021 Kroner, or 4,733,685 C-Bills.
>>98743560>Other considerationsWhile the micro pulse lasers mounted by the Funke have been proliferating throughout the Clans for some 90 years now and CMW has amassed a stockpile, the fact remains that they are imported components. Any interruption to logistics trains in the field or to trading relationships with Clan suppliers could turn units in need of repair into units in need of refitting. Also of note is that the Funke's hardened armor notably impairs many piloting maneuvers and as such it is not especially suitable to lesser-skilled pilots.>RecommendationProcurement. The Funke is a specialized battlemech, but in its niche it performs admirably at a moderate cost.[note attached to the report]Thomas, I like these things a lot but if you buy them make goddamn sure that they're only ever handed out to officers with functioning brains and decent pilots under their commend. Anders and I took them for a test drive and while they're vicious at point blank range they're coffins at even moderate ranges. The protection is passable but that hardly matters when you can't get a shot off before being picked apart and it also makes them hard to pilot. Given that I'm recommending procurement I expect the JAG to be on me as as matter of course but as far as I'm concerned they can kiss my ass; I stand by it. As always, my love to Maria and the kids.
>>98741955Griffin III GRF-2RSniper 25 tonsBV: 678C-Bills (dry): 2,081,042Quirks: Battlefists, Jettison-Capable Weapon (Light PPC), Easy to Pilot, Rugged (1 Point)Armor: 4.5 tons heavy FFThe venerable Griffin has been the golden standard when it comes to mobile fire support medium mechs for centuries and has never been surpassed in this role. It was therefore deemed fitting when a callout was made for a new training and militia fire support mech that only the best would be copied. The resulting Griffin III is more than half the weight of the original and a fraction of the cost yet is able to perform the same fire support mission as its older brother. A light ppc is able to gradually poke holes in opponents while a LRM launcher helps to exploit gaps made in the armor. Heavy Ferro-Fibrous armor allows it to mount the maximum protection the chassis will allow although care should be taken when facing opponents equipped with heavier weapons. The limited use of advanced materials is to make this as affordable and easy to produce as possible making it an ideal choice for militia forces who face typically limited pirate raids. While the standard heatsinks can be overwhelmed this scenario only happens if the pilot excessively uses their jump jets and weapons without pause.Built with a lot of the same components and philosophy as the standard Griffin the main selling point of this design is how easy it is for a novice pilot to handle making it an ideal trainer for pilots wishing to improve their gunnery skills and not be overwhelmed. The weapons on the left side of this machine is to help distinguish it from regular Griffins with the added bonus allowing it to hold hands with its older brother if the pilot needs additional guidance.
>98741955Pygmy (Locust II) PGY-1MScout10 tonsBV: 360C-Bills (dry): 1,094,867Quirks: Easy to Maintain, Narrow/Low Profile, No/Minimal Arms, Weak Legs, Improved Cooling Jacket (Small X-Pulse Lasers)Armor: 2 tons heavy FFStarting out as an experiment by Lolita Industries to see how far they could push miniaturization technology the Pygmy quickly evolved into a somewhat capable albeit very fragile ultralight scout and anti-infantry platform. The design shares a lot of similarities to the larger Locust to such a point that some have started calling it the Locust II although Lolita lawyers have insisted that any similarities are purely coincidental and for their marketing team to not advertise with this name. The main offensive armament of this design are a pair of small pulse lasers mounted on large gun pods that give them additional cooling capacity and are ideal for this tiny mech acting as a screen against infantry units. While the medium laser does give it some ranged punch the very limited protection offered on this frame means that combat with heavier units is not advised as even employing swarm tactics there will likely be significant casualties. Additionally the fragile construction means that this mech is susceptible to being easily tripped over.The very small nature of this mech and the tiny cockpit means that piloting a Pygmy is an assignment often given to very small often younger pilots with a more feminine frame as anyone larger would have difficultly being squeezed inside. Despite all this the extremely low cost and easy maintenance of this design has brought some interest from militia units.
>>98741955Incredible INC-1RSniper40 tonsBV: 11133,355,893 C-BillsQuirks: Battlefists, Narrow/Low Profile, Low-Mounted ArmsA baby Awesome, also called a fat Adder/Puma, was developed as a cheap fire support mech. Designed with a low cost and respectable level of firepower and protection it would primarily serve in second line formations. An attempt to reduce the mech's profile would see the arms mounted lower than usual, which fortunately was not a problem as there were no weapons mounted in them.Also this is like the third Awesome inspired design I've made for the thread, lol.
>>98741955Sthenele SN7-LEJuggernaut50 tonsBV: 1,580C-Bills (dry): 6,649,500Quirks: Battlefists, Command Mech, Distracting, Improved Communications, Difficult to MaintainArmor: 21 tons hardened"A 'Mech as cuddly as possible, as adorable as possible, and as cute and fluffy as conceivable, so that cuteness itself will be our ally." - little Stacey playing with her Atlas plushies. "I saw you beat that 'Mech like no 'Mech ever got beat before and it just kept coming after you!" - Duke, chief technician at the Creed Mechwarrior Stable.The Sthenele started as a bunch of spare Atlas parts that were not enough to complete a full sized assault mech but perhaps to create something new in the hands of some inventive technicians. The question was what to create as various options presented themselves and arguments quickly ensued that were only settled when one technician overheard his daughter playing with her toys and suggested that they go with a half sized Atlas to show off their skill.Approving of this idea the technicians all got to work sourcing equipment from all cross the Inner Sphere including obtaining weapons from Sea Fox merchants to help build a machine that could mimic the capabilities of the original. The next step was to demonstrate it in action and this was done by entering it in various mech fighting tournaments where they deliberately sought to face it off against assault mechs due to its slow speed but also its formidable armor that exceeded that of even the venerable Atlas. This venture proved successful in cementing their fame as in many a match an opponent thought the Sthenele defeated only for it to get back up again and again to eventually win a battle of attrition against a much heavier opponent.
>>98741955Louse LSE-1MMissile Boat10 TonsBV 3791,088,542 C-BillsQuirks: Compact Mech, Narrow/Low Profile, No/Minimal Arms, Weak LegsA small mech in competition for the title of a miniaturized Locust, the Louse platform endeavors to take on the title of being the miniature version of the 1M and 3D variants of the platform with an ER Small Laser serving as a middle point between the former's Medium Laser and the latter's lack of any laser.This was achieved through contracts for the lighter Clan variants of the LRM 5s, but the rest of the platform is built using Inner Sphere technology.Of notable relevance is that even with all the advanced technology being employed in the creation of this platform, it is half a million cheaper than either of those variants of Locust, while maintaining identical speed, similar firepower and armoring at <35> vs <44> which allows for this to be procured as an even more budget 'Mech for those needing to rapidly rearm their forces in the wake of ongoing tensions and conflicts - with a full lance of 4 being able to be purchased at the cost of 2.6 Locust 3Ds.
>>98741955Eradicator ERD-1RJuggernaut50 tonsBV: 1,050C-Bills (dry): 3,710,000Quirks: Easy to maintainArmor: 10 tons standardThe Eradicator has been designed as a budget friendly walking fire platform with the mercenary market in mind. Four lightweight autocannons let it unleash an impressive barrage as it slowly makes it way towards a target often taking advantage of precision ammunition to make sure each shot lands a direct hit. An addition weapons bank of four medium lasers also provides sufficient backup should the ammunition run dry. Ten tons of armor help shrug off most typical return fire. Using all true Inner Sphere components means you are never at the mercy of a Sea Fox merchant when sourcing replacement parts. A truly fine machine for the mechwarrior who loves to waddle towards their enemy while peppering them with hits or is secretly a Davion inside. -MekGear Magazine, September issue, 3150
>>98741955Arbalester35 tonsBV: 1,3315,811,210 C-BillsQuirks: Command Mech, StableA result of the miniaturization programs done by many companies is the Arbalester, a mech from the Ogham Metals firm in the Federated Suns. The mech is based on the venerable Archer mech and has a similar weapons loadout in a smaller package. Based on field reports the mech has exceeded expectations in performance. The mech quickly spread through out the FedSuns for use as a garrison mech, a role which it performs admirably in. Buy your Arbalester today!!
>>98741955Deadeye DDI-2NSniper30 TonsBV 1,0344,325,100 C-BillsAA Targetting, Nimble Jumper, EM Interference, Poor Targeting ShortWatch the sky with the Deadeye!With the agility of the Stinger and the precision targetting of a Rifleman, the Deadeye is the perfect fire support for your reconaissence lance. Engage at your discretion, claim the high ground, and withdraw without fear of airborne pursuit. Star League-grade heat sinks and modern small-bore PPCs allow for consistent accuracy while repositioning, with a pair of secondary laser banks ready for when your enemy is outmaneuvered. Also available is the -2C upgrade package, augmenting your firepower with top-of-the-line Clan components. Contact your local dealer for pricing.Clan Sea Fox does not provide support for mounting electronic support systems to the Deadeye.
>>98718019Reaver REA-8k (Non-canon)Quad BattleMekBase Tech Level: Standard (IS)Tech Rating: E/X-X-F-DEarliest Tech Date: 3055 (Clan Invasion)Availability Era --------------------------------------------Prototype 3067-3071 (Civil War to Jihad) Production 3072-3079 (Jihad) Common 3080+ (Jihad and onwards) Cost: 7,899,733 C-billsSource: (Unknown)Weight: 40 tonsBV: 1,365Movement: 7/11Engine: 280 XLDouble Heat Sinks: 11 [22]Cockpit: Small CockpitGyro: XL GyroInternal: 75 (Endo Steel)Armor: 128 (Standard) Internal Armor ----------------------------------------Head 3 9 Center Torso 12 16 Center Torso (rear) 5 Right Torso 10 15 Right Torso (rear) 4 Left Torso 10 15 Left Torso (rear) 4 Front Right Leg 10 15 Front Left Leg 10 15 Rear Right Leg 10 15 Rear Left Leg 10 15 Weapons Loc Heat --------------------------Snub-Nose PPC LT 10 Snub-Nose PPC RT 10 TAG RT 0 Equipment Loc ---------------------------Targeting Computer LT ECM Suite (Guardian) RT
>>98718019>>98751002cont.sorry i didn't follow the format, but your not paying me, so
>>98751059Whatever format works. Usually people use RS as its much easier to visualize.
>>98751220i don't remember how to do that or what rs means, i remember being able to export to pdf but like before i think you uploaded a dummy version where that part of the program doesn't function and crashes megamek.
>>98751525Record Sheet. If you're using MegaMek Lab, it's the rightmost sub-tab in the preview section. You can copy the image and save it as a PNG.
>>98751691
>>98750380fighting that would be hella annoying
I know this is not a legal entry for the challenge as LAMs are Experimental tech, but I couldn't help myself after remembering the Wasp LAMs were titled "Angel on Our Shoulders" by the SLDFMini Wasp LAM Mk.1 WSP-100bScout15 tonsBV: 388C-Bills (dry): 1,449,388Quirks: None
>>98752156I legit had to double check the tech manual as I didn't think ASF could go lower than 20 tons thus I thought a LAM going under this weight would be illegal. Turns out I was mistaken and they can go as fact as low as 5 tons.
>>98741955Thunderstroke TDS-5SSBrawler30 tonsBV: 789C-Bills (dry): 2,326,090Quirks: Multi-Trac, Rugged (2 Point), Ubiquitous (Inner Sphere), Bad Reputation (Inner Sphere)Armor: 6.5 tons standardWhen Chiseler Industries wanted to enter the mech market by developing a militia mech for low tech worlds the initial buy orders exceeded their wildest expectations which included even several line units from Great Houses expressing interest. Never anticipating this level of early success they thought they had cemented their reputation until their buyers took delivery of their mechs and the complaints started rolling in.The issue had turned out in their eagerness to use the popular Succession Wars era Steiner Thunderbolt as direct inspiration many a buyer had not looked too closely at what they were purchasing and had assumed that it was actually cheap surplus Thunderbolt TDR-5SS models they were buying. It was therefore a shock when in fact they had purchased a mech less than half its tonnage albeit with firepower not that far off the original. The resulting demands for refunds which Chiseler were both unwilling and unable to fulfil left multiple customers with mechs they did not want and nobody wished to buy.Despite the poor reputation it gained due to this purchasing debacle the Thunderstroke does have some positives. It is an extremely reliable trooper design where parts can be found virtually anywhere making it ideal in its intended role as a garrison unit or in a force that does not have the luxury of a strong logistics chain to fall back on. Indeed the most complicated parts on it are the CASE and double heatsinks which can are not exactly hard to come by in the Inner Sphere or even Periphery. It is this low tech and low cost nature of the design which has made it find some popularity with pirate groups who have been more than delighted to purchase a heavily discounted mech from disgruntled sellers.
>>98751917What is this a mini me of?
Anons being confused over what Nebula California is made me think that we probably should give a bit more of a rundown on the other challenges that are being suggested so anons know what they actually voting for.The better Raven 3L/EWAR challenge is basically coming up with something equipped with ECM+BAP along with a NARC and/or TAG so it can provide electronic warfare as well as spotting that unlike the RVN-3L isn't actually shit.Republic police mech you are looking at equipment capable of non lethal takedowns. So essentially mech tasers and TSEMP but also might want to consider something that can deal with riots like SRMs to fire gas, machine guns which have rubber bullets in fluff albeit no rules. Weapons and ammo that can interdict an opponent like magnetic pulse, haywire, and chain whips might be on the menu assuming we go with experimental tech. Alternatively could go full SWAT mode for mechs designed to bring someone down without collateral damage?Counter Blakist challenge I assume is going to be trying to build something to counter some of the insane mechs anons came up with like the one that could stack a +7 attacker modifier making it virtually impossible to hit or void signature designs that could lob artillery while remaining invisible?Aerospace it probably would be best to explain to anons that Aerotech rules means that there are a lot different things to consider they wouldn't normally have to. For starters anything with under 5 tons of fuel is frankly considered low for an ASF. Heat is way more important since go +5 in a mech you slow down, in an ASF that's a chance to lawndart. Weapon ranges are also different and while SL and ML both share the same range you also have to factor in that damage thresholds exist i.e. say you are facing a Shologar, yes you can boat SL and tickle it to death but a single ML hit can pierce through its armor and cause a crit. ASF 50 tons and over can carry a nuke and 100 tonners can carry two.
>>98756136On the back of this I would like to propose a Monster Hunter mech challenge due SRM harpoons which can be used to hunt creatures giving me an idea. Essentially design a mech to go onto a world filled with giant monsters to slay them so they may mount their head on the wall as a trophy. So going on safari with mechs in all reality.I also think a pirate mech challenge could be fun something that is essentially more geared for raiding and pillaging rather than direct fighting. If it does fight it basically wants gadgets that help it escape a pursuer or make them back off like how the Arbiter uses a heavy rifle to appear like a much bigger weapon. In fact let us call it a heist mech.
>>98756136Probably a good idea to give a rundown. Also may be a good idea to not try and cram everything into one poll but split it across multiple.Make stuff like "IlClan IS Experimental Heavy" or the more generic ones like "Tripod" into "<ERA> <FACTION> Tripod". We then take highest voted era where that challenge would be legal, and then the highest voted faction (with one being "Any") for that given Era.There'd be some challenges like Nebula California or the Better Raven L3 that would skip the Era and Faction stuff if they win, but this would allow for us to compress a few of them together like the two Experimental Heavies and the two Omnis, as well as move out the Solaris and Society ones.May also give some funny results. Like "<Star League Era> Counter-<Capellan> Design" or "<Clan Invasion> <Federated Suns> Warcrime Machine".But I'm just speculating here.
>>98757402OP here, I could add some eras but that could make a massive poll, with already close to 30 options.I do tend to roll era unless it's era specific in the poll
Our challange 18 voting is now open. And we haveCatapult 3 CAT3-1Goon GOON-3RBushman BSM-2FFunke FNK-3Griffin III GRF-2RPygmy (Locust II) PGY-1MIncredible INC-1RSthenele SN7-LELouse LSE-1MEradicator ERD-1RArbalesterDeadeye DDI-2NReaver REA-8kThunderstroke TDS-5SSAlso shout out to the not legal Mini Wasp LAM Mk.1 WSP-100b, because it was a fun ideaOur categories >>Which do you think fits the challenge best?>>Which is your personal Favorite>>Which is the most innovative?>>Who is the meth baby?>>Which had the best narrativeOur next poll: https://strawpoll.com/jVyG2kNGPZ7Voting ends: October 2nd at 6 PM EST
>>98758639I didn't mean add those to the exisitng poll. I was talking about making a second/third Strawpoll that is also linked alongside the core challenge poll.Anyway,>>98758996>>Which do you think fits the challenge best?I think it may be the Pygmy >>98743853, as it goes the lightest on needing Clantech in order to replicate the Mech that its going for being a Mini version of while also being a near direct parallel to the original.>>Which is your personal Favorite?The Deadeye >>98750380. I don't think its as effective of a Mini Me as the Pygmy, but I just like its setup.>>Which is the most innovative?The Sthenele >>98744155 goes pretty hard on Clantech while also having what feels like a pretty god setup.>>Who is the meth baby?Since the Mini Wasp LAM is not something legal for the challenge, I'm gonna go with the Louse >>98746127 because both Mini Locusts are pretty meth baby but I've already voted for the other one elsewhere.>>Which had the best narrative?Thunderstroke >>98753099 takes this for me.
>>98718019> And we have...> ...> Is this an Urbanmech!?!>> Dah.> *Sigh!* Go ahead, I guess.>> Me and Ivan had idea. What is good melee? Speed. Armor. Like car. Demolition Derby!> Like car...>> Dah. So we went by junkyard. Found Urbie. Ivan found big reactor. Real big. Stuffed in here. Take all space. Like dead body in trash can.> And it works?>> Dah! Took it on field. Chased down Locusts with it. Very fast.> What about weaponry? I don't see the Autocannon!>> Of course not. Cannon is heavy. Armor is heavy. Reactor is super-heavy. Machine gun do trick. If they run fast, tickle feet until you catch up. Oh. And ram here. Spikes.> On the turret?>> Dah. Sharp on sides too. If spikes get into target, put reactor power on turret spin, and hold! You be the chainsaw!> Oh... my... and how much?> Reactor is very pricy. 3.5 million C-Bills and 8-9 bottles of Vodka for me and Ivan!
>>98758996>>Which do you think fits the challenge best?>>98742609Goon GOON-3RWas a tightly fought contest here but this narrowly wins out mainly because it matches the firepower exactly of the original. Interestingly enough this is also one of the designs here I probably would never field.>>Which is your personal Favorite>>98750380Deadeye DDI-2NOkay making a mini jumping rifleman was quite clever and the fact it uses all IS components to achieve this is a huge mark in its favor. Felt there was a missed opportunity to put the ER mediums in the arms but overall I love this design. Small pulses are a great idea as a backup and I could easily find use for this design myself.>>Which is the most innovative?>>98746127Louse LSE-1MMore so because it answers a question I've been pondering in what would even be the point of an ultralight design considering they would explode the moment someone so much as sneezes at them. A fast missile boat harasser makes a lot of sense.>>Who is the meth baby?>>98743190Bushman BSM-2FAnon has taken the thin line between genius and madness and decided to use it as a skipping rope. It will struggle to get up if it gets knocked down but its a tough little brute that is well armed for its size and it does this with absolute minimal Clan tech. Squeezing TSM into it was the chefs kiss. I would use this cause it seems like a fun wildcard to put on the table.>>Which had the best narrative>>98743560Funke FNK-3I like anons style here in writing it like a quartermaster report.
>>98761576>what would even be the point of an ultralight design considering they would explode the moment someone so much as sneezes at themIf analyzed primarily from the perspective of a traditional Mech, certainly. But there is also this really, really funny threshold aspect in the Advanced rules where you make up to 15 ton Protomechs, and you get some very funny stuff going on where:>10 Ton Protomech, base: 7750 kg (7.75 tons) of free space, 5 Crit Slots, ~1 million C-bills>10 Ton Ulralight, every bit of weight saving equipment from XXLs, Endo-Steel, etc: 6.5 tons of free space, 10 Free Crit Slots (No Weight Free Single Heat Sinks), ~800k C-BillsWhich looks to favor Protomechs...but with them you have to pay for Heat Sinks on top of equipment while Utlralights come with them and give you control over them, and can get Doubles for free.It gets even funnier at the 15 Ton mark, where:>15 Ton Protomech, Base: 12000 kg (12 Tons) free space, 5 Crits, 1.132 Million C-Bills>15 Ton Ultralight, max weight saving: 11 Tons of free space, 10 Free Crit Slots (No Weight Free Single Heat Sinks), ~800k C-BillsThe heat sink situation just favors the Ultralights over the Protomechs with the whole control element as well as more crit slots opening up as you improve the engines. The pilots for Ultralights can be generic people while Protos need specialized guys, and with the advent of Hardened armor, Protos don't even win on the armor front anymore because a 15 tonner can only get 67 armor points while Hardened and other damage reduction specialized ones can give a 15 ton Ultralight an effective max of 110.This in addition to all the various equipment that Mechs can also take that meant that for when they did Halo in "Plenty of Room in the Nebula California", they used Ultralight Mechs instead of Protomechs to build the Hunter expy in Pic Related. And said Pic Related...doesn't use all of the weight saving tech.
>>98761689Thanks for the rundown anon. Makes me now even wonder what is the point of a protomech and imagine if there was a 5 ton ultralight mech?
>>98762194Protomechs increase in 1 Ton increments of 2 Tons (Maximum Battle Armor) to 15 Tons (2nd lowest Mech Size). I also believe that the 10 to 15 tons remain only 1 Terrain Level tall so they're harder to go after compared to Ultralights remaining 2 TL, and their armor is split across only 5 Hit Locations instead of the 11 Hit Locations of a complete Mech.There are some uses as they are still what's roughly a TitanFall Titan or 40k Armiger in terms of size. They just have quickly diminishing returns when you go past the Standard rules limit of 9 into the Advanced rules limit of 15 where they compete with Ultralights.
>>98762456I legit thought protomechs could only go up to 9 tons? I also was wondering if JJ weight may be where protomechs could shine over ultralights i.e trading firepower for mobility?
>>98762684Page 92 of Interstellar Operations - Alternate Eras has a section on Expanded Protomechs brought about during the Wars of Reaving. The info in it includes Clan Cloud Cobra being the inventors of the Quadrupeds in 3083 in its "Introduced" tech but seems to have been intended as a creation of the Society via Feralize treatments, Snow Raven invinting the Glider type ones in 3084 that are basically Protomechs with LAM's AirMech movement style, and Clan Coyote having invented the "Ultraheavy"/Ultra Protomechs in 3083.The 10-15 Ton options are naturally the final of these, though something stated in the section but not restricted by rules is that the Glider Protomechs came about as a component of the Ultras and it looks like they may have been intended to be restricted to that but weren't?
>>98763113I'll definitely have to have a read through that at some point. Thanks anon for explaining.On another note anyone think a good few of these mini-me mechs would make excellent mooks to face off against if you were running a campaign with people? A few are good enough that they don't feel they would be patronizing to face but also don't have enough firepower to say one shot someone with a lucky ass headshot.
>>98754875i dunno, a bishonen?
>>98754875I don't think he read the challenge?
>>98766718Yep, doesn't look like it.
Looking at the votes, LAMs might actually win this time. So, I have been pondering. Clans don't make LAMs as it messed with the caste system they got going. But of all of them, Maybe the Raven Alliance might. Bloodspirts had a whole protomech pilot Phenotype, which ended up with the Stone lions.What if the Raven Alliance tried something like that? It might be too messy as it's not a clear line as the prototype. But maybe they could even revive the falcon idea of two warriors.Just good for thought.
>>98768772Probably want someone short and thin that can handle the G's but also fit in the rather complicated cockpits of a LAM. So essentially loli warriors.
>>98768851Kinda what they look like now
>>98769607Yeah but can they sing while flying?
>>98768851>short and thin that can handle the G'sShort, yes, but you want bulging leg muscles and really good core&neck strength there.
Our challange 18 winners areWhich do you think fits the challenge best?Pygmy (Locust II) PGY-1MGoon GOON-3R>>Which is your personal FavoriteDeadeye DDI-2N >>Which is the most innovative?Sthenele SN7-LELouse LSE 1M>>Who is the meth baby?Louse LSE-1MBushman BSM-2F>>Which had the best narrativeThunderstroke TDS-5SS Funke FNK-3Lots of ties here. Our top contendersGoon GOON-3R 1Bushman BSM-2F 1Funke FNK-3 1Pygmy (Locust II) PGY-1M 1Sthenele SN7-LE 1Louse LSE-1M 2Deadeye DDI-2N 2Thunderstroke TDS-5SS 1Next challenge in a bit
>>Challenge 19: Silence of the LAMs“A LAM is the pinnacle of BattleMech engineering.” —Someone who has clearly never had to maintain one.The Land-Air ’Mech was supposed to be the future: a machine capable of fighting as a BattleMech, taking to the skies as an aerospace fighter, and doing everything in between. In practice, it was an engineering department's fever dream wrapped in a maintenance nightmare.For centuries, the LAM has occupied that strange corner of military technology where “because we can” somehow became a design philosophy. Every generation of engineers has sworn they could improve upon the concept. Every generation has discovered that making a ’Mech turn into an aircraft is considerably more complicated than the recruitment brochure suggested.But 3150 is the era of experimental technology. Fusion engines are commonplace. Exotic weapons are appearing on battlefields. Clans, Inner Sphere powers, mercenaries, and corporations are all pushing the limits of what a combat machine can do.So perhaps the LAM deserves another chance.Your mission: take the LAM concept and push it as far as the rules will allow.>>RequirementsWe are building LAM and The Rules I have are from Alternative Era page 108 and sweet gods they have more restrictions than I recall. See next postYear: 3150Tech Base: Innersphere or Innersphere based mixed techTech Level: Experimental Price: AnyRole: AnySize: Medium or lessEquipment: Anything MML allows as Experimental in 3150 that you can actually put on a LAM.End date: October 5th at 6 PM EST
Requirements and restrictions Actuators: LAMs must be constructed with both lower arm actuators.Minimum Jumping MP: LAMs must be constructed with a minimum Jumping MP of 3Fuel: LAMs receive 1 free ton’s worth of fuel as part of their conversion equipment. This free ton provides 80 fuel points but does not add to the unit’s allocated weight, nor does it occupy a critical slot. Additional fuel may be added in full-ton lots (each providing an additional 80 fuel points), with each ton of fuel occupying 1 critical slot.Structural Integrity: A LAM’s structural integrity is equal to the number of center torso internal structure points.Weapon Locations: Unlike fighters, LAMs do not need to mount weapons and equipment symmetricallyConversion Equipment Bimodal LAMs must devote 15 percent of the unit’s total mass (rounded up to the nearest whole ton) to conversion equipment.Standard LAMs only require 10 percent of the unit’s total mass (rounded up to the nearest whole number) in conversion equipment. Both Bimodal and Standard LAMs must then allocate additional “conversion equipment” on their Critical Hit Table as shown on the Conversion Equipment Table.Bomb Bays LAMs may mount up to 20 bomb bays, each of which weighs 1 ton and occupies 1 critical space in the unit’s left or right torso. Each bomb bay accommodates a single-slot bomb, and has no effect on the unit’s movement.Prohibited TechnologiesExcept as noted on this list, a LAM may use any equipment not prohibited to BattleMechs, IndustrialMechs, or aerospace fighters. The following items are prohibited in LAMs:Armor: LAMs may not use hardened armor and any other armor that requires critical hit slots, including ferro-fibrous armor, modular armor, and stealth armor. LAMs may use armored components, however.Cockpits: LAMs may not use torso-mounted cockpits, nor any cockpits that requires additional critical hit slots.
>>98768772Okay I actually did theorize how Raven Alliance might want to make LAMs. The important thing is you'd have to sell it as something that doesn't replace or step on roles that Mech or Aerospace have, the Clan side of the military wouldn't allow it. I'm unsure of what kind of pilots would be used too since you'd have to prove this idea via trial before any accepting.Basically the thing I came up with was trying to go for the things that LAMs could be theoretically good at in a campaign sense. They can patrol or watch an area as an aerospace unit without spending fuel by positioning themselves in mech mode on the ground, then launch themselves to respond to threats. They can also be launched or picked up by ships without using dropships so that's another advantage, plus hand actuators can allow them to raid faster than a traditional mech.For my idea I was picturing something with a fairly simplistic loadout, a pair of CERLLs with a little extra fuel along with what little weight saving you can do on a LAM which is just Composite structure. The problem with LAMs is I'm not sure if I'd call them 'solved' but you're severely limited in creativity with what you can do even with all rules available and most people have theorycrafted what good LAMs would look like already.
Engines: LAMs may not use any engine other than a standard or a compact fusion engine and cannot mount a supercharger.Gyros: Only standard, compact, and heavy-duty gyros may be employed by LAMs.Internal Structure: LAMs may not use any internal structure that requires critical hit slots, such as endo steel.Primitive Components: LAMs may not mount any primitive core components, such as engines, cockpits, gyros, and the like. Primitive and prototype weapons may be mounted on a LAM, however.Extra-Large Weapons: LAMs may not mount any weapon system that must be allocated to more than one hit location (e.g. Right Arm & Right Torso), such as the Thumper or Arrow IV artillery weapons, nor may any weapon that can be optionally split between locations be mounted in more than one location. LAMs may not carry artillery weapons of any kind (bomb munitions are permitted via bomb bays). Other Items: Aside from avionics and landing gear, any items that require the allocation of critical slots to more than one hit location may not be mounted on LAMs. This includes items that may normally be split between multiple hit locations on other BattleMech types. For example, a LAM may mount MASC or triple-strength myomer as either system may be allocated entirely in one hit location, but it cannot mount the Chameleon Light Polarization Shield, because that system requires 1 critical slot placed in each of the ’Mech’s limbs and side torsosLAMs also may not mount backhoes, bridge-laying equipment, combines, dumpers, external stores, mechanical jump boosters, partial wings, or jump packs/drop packs.Finally, except for physical attack weapons, LAMs may not mount any weapon that requires a Piloting skill as part of its use (such as the heavy Gauss rifle).Sorry for the poor format. Good look y'all
>>98770745Wonder if it might be a good idea to have an image attached to the voting start, since it looks like this time that ended up getting a bit buried. And unlike the Challenge Start, there wasn't a wide array of sheets posted to indicate one's up.
>>98770857That's a great idea. May attach them to voting and new challenges
>>98769702So dwarfs? >>98770854>LAMs may not mount any weapon that requires a Piloting skill as part of its use (such as the heavy Gauss rifle).I have always found the need to mention this weapon as an example of this rule retarded. Mainly because a heavy gauss is impossible to fit on a LAM without violating the extra large weapon rule.>>98770857Anons clearly can find the poll. They just aren't voting in the thread.
>>98770844It's boring. It's like a Tomahawk C that can turn into a mech. But for my idea of a Raven Alliance mech it works out pretty good I think. I imagine Stars of these would mostly be made up of second line Aerospace pilots that have some mech experience, and they wouldn't be deployed in large numbers.The idea is more "arrive, investigate, disrupt, extract" rather than "stay and fight". Doctrine would insist if the mission has become a conventional Battlemech engagement or Aerospace engagement, disengage for conventional forces.I still really like the idea that it can just sit somewhere that you couldn't normally land an Aerospace fighter and respond at a moment's notice. The surprise factor alone could win a few points.
>>98770844>We are building LAM and The Rules I have are from Alternative Era page 108 and sweet gods they have more restrictions than I recall.Are these restrictions all setup in MegaMekLabs, or are there ones that its missing?
>>98773233They usually are taken into account.
Maxell MXL-3Scout40 tonsBV: 1816C-Bills (dry): 5,269,927Quirks: Anti-Aircraft Targeting, Exposed ActuatorsDuring the age of the First Star League, the Wasp LAM was considered by the common soldiers to be an "Angel on our Shoulders" for its ability to rapidly arrive at their locations and either provide Close Air Support from its Aerospace or Airmech configurations, or to land and serve as a reinforcing Battlemech long before any others would arrive.However, the production of the platforms suffered as the factories in the Inner Sphere steadily declined from damage or outright destruction, and the Clans' Caste System could never properly account for the platform - ultimately coming to a head in Clan Nova Cat destroying the last major Star League LAM factory. The one faction which has prior attempted to create a new LAM design in the Word of Blake strayed significantly from the design space the Wasp operated within and tried to fight both Battlemech and Aerospace platforms.The Maxell is our attempt to create a true successor. An increase in size by 10 tons has allowed for us to upgrade the engines and with improved jump jets to increase the speed while also increasing the armor by 2.5 tons to 6.5. With contacts in Clan Sea Fox, we have doubled the number of Medium Lasers while additionally extending their range. The choice between SRM and LRM versions has been combined into one with the modern MML launchers with ammo protected by Clan-spec CASE II.All weapons systems are hooked into a Targeting Computer that will ease the difficulties of Gunnery which has historically had issues in LAMs. This Targeting Computer has additionally had specialized programming done with it to allow for greatly improved Anti-Aircraft Targeting to aid in another historic weakpoint of LAMs. While the Small Cockpit does neccessitate some additional Piloting training, we believe that the savings in Gunnery training will more than offset this need.
>>98770844Hyper Laser LAM Platform HLP-XAmbuher50 tonsBV: 2632C-Bills (dry): 6,708,625Quirks: PrototypeAn experimental platform by RISC, it was made to investigate the possibility of overcoming the inherent danger of the RISC Hyper Laser's explosivity by making a platform fast enough that it would be hard to shoot at. Unfortunately for the few looking forwards to where the design may go, the number of heat sinks needed to cool the weapon system were too great for the platform to be able to achieve all to great a speed and before attempts could further be made, the Republic would fall to Clan Wolf who ordered the project scrapped.
Whistler WST-1AScout15 TonsBV: 312C-Bills (dry): 1,210,490Quirks: Easy to Maintain, Easy to Pilot, Flawed Cooling System, Weak LegsWe're in a time of uncertainty right now and everyone's needing some good old assets in order to defend their territory. But a painful decision for those with little money is the question of Meks and other ground forces or Aerospace and other air/space assets. We at Totally Legitimate Industries (or as we prefer, TLI) have just the mech for you!Acquired via old lawsuits over us owning the patents to the Wasp LAM (don't believe the liars saying we don't, no matter what evidence they bring up), we have further modified the platform to the point that it does the work of both for the price of two Hetzers, without compromising the Easy to Maintain and Easy to Pilot quirks prior owners who infringed on our totally legit copyright! You surely won't regret this purchase - all rumors of the legs now being very prone to breaking and the cooling system having flaws are false!And if you say they are true, you will hear from our lawyers.
>>98773233It takes it into account, but as the rules are so weird, I thought I would list them as a refresh. They are funky and often seem designed to make LAMs unworkable
>>98770844QGL-Y QuigleySniper55 TonsBV: 3,341C-Bills: 8,881,488Quirks: Improved Targeting (Long), Poor Performance, Prototype, Accurate Weapon (RISC Hyper-Laser), Accurate Weapon (RISC Hyper-Laser)A short-lived project with a place of honor in the RISC lab annals, the Quigley is regarded by those unfamiliar with the project as being the result of a wager, a fever dream and/or drug-induced psychosis. Those few in the know, however, tend to consider more charitably as a case of tunnel vision. The R-LAM project was initiated in 3144 to yet again re-examine the LAM concept, but after four years of bearing no fruit, it was shelved and became "free game" for groups looking for a project to tinker with. In 3150 an idle team from the laser research division found a super-heavy LAM prototype in storage and decided to refit it with hyper-lasers to create a dedicated "clan-buster" sniping 'mech that would use the LAM capabilities to reach vantage points and have no expense spared for accuracy enhancements. The result was a large, slow LAM armed with nothing but two of the most powerful, most expensive, hottest and most unstable weapons to ever leave the drawing board and less armor than some battlemechs half its size. Fortunately for Republic pilots, the Quigley narrowly avoided reaching piloted testing. Unfortunately for both Republic pilots and Clan Wolf the sole prototype would be pressed into combat during the Invasion of Terra, where it was credited with scoring four kills with five shots across two engagements before experiencing a critical failure.>>98773845Great minds think alike, apparently. Wish I'd sacrificed some sleep to finish mine last night.
>>98775651[RISC procurement office single-party transcription record, 1547 29 December 3150]Hey Victor, this is Cameron. I was doing my weekly round-up when a field test approval form just slid across my desk and- Yeah, that's the one. Would you care to explain to me exactly what the hell I'm looking at?[...]No, smartass, the report came through fine. What the hell do you mean "then what's the problem"? The only guns on this thing blow up almost ten percent of the time and the heat from firing both of them at once would turn an Atlas back into ingots. Besides that, where the hell did you even find the LAM to make this thing?[...]Yes, I saw the targeting computer and the accurization on the guns and the C3 unit and the targeting software optimization. I have no doubt that it's accurate, but that's not the issue. What exactly is the plan if someone shoots BACK?[...]"Redundancy" is part of the issue. As far as I'm concerned that just means that even if the pilot somehow survives the first gun taking half of the 'mech with it they won't survive the second; it's a "when" question, not an "if" question. You don't even have CASE in this thing. And on the topic of survivability, this thing has the speed of a Thunderbolt while being slower off the mark and it has a composite structure and less than five tons of armor.[...]No, the armor is not a "formality " and I really don't care that you're going to try to add a void-sig in the next model. When one of those lasers goes off you can see it from orbit, much less a few hundred yards away.[...]Yeah, no kidding you're having trouble finding volunteers.[...][sigh][...][...]Victor, take a breath. This thing is a coffin that costs almost 9 million C-bills. I'm not approving this, Andy isn't approving this.[...]Yeah, getting more sleep is probably a good idea. We're all stressed with the Clanners so close, but you need some fresh air. Try Australia, it's nice this time of year. Uh-huh, yep. Bye.[call ends]
>>98775651>Great minds think alike, apparentlyYou're not kidding. I got torn between either this or moving up to 40 tons to fit a Clan GR. Guess I'm gonna have to go with that one, then.
>>98776599Yeah, if I wasn't like 90% of the way done before that guy posted his I would have restarted.
>>98774314>They are funky and often seem designed to make LAMs unworkableThey were. The rules writer didn't like LAMs and this was the next best thing he could do to entirely squat them from the game. He also apparently wanted them to have even more restrictions.They actually do this a often enough. They put in terrible rules for handheld weapons that didn't fit existing examples just so that players would be less likely to use them.
>>98770844Wingback WNG-LAM-4BKAmbusher50 tonsBV: 1,639C-Bills (dry): 4,6611,531Quirks: UnbalancedArmor: 10.5 tons standardWhen a group of eccentric engineers with too much time on their hands got drunk one night and questioned if they could make a Hunchback fly many had dismissed it as idle talk and thought nothing of it despite them disappearing every weekend for the next six months. Thus it was somewhat of a shock when the Wingback was revealed to the world, a Land-Air-Mech mounting a massive ultra autocannon that could quickly inflict devasting blows on unsuspecting targets.Military procurement officers quickly scrutinized the design for possible applications. While the small cockpit and large autocannon gave it unusual handling characteristics, along with the limited ammo giving it very little endurance, there was promise in it being used as an ambush platform that could be quickly deployed onto the battlefield and unleash its load before retreating to resupply. Unfortunately before any order could be made the prototype was destroyed by a terrorist group known as the Word of Herb.
>>98770844Slasher SLH-LAM-3RStriker45 tonsBV: 1,562C-Bills (dry): 5,547,628Quirks: Battlefists, Jettison-Capable Weapon (Hatchet)Armor: 8 tons standardAfter the setback that was the Wingback being destroyed, the same engineers decided instead to develop a different LAM design this time seeing if they could instead make the Hatchetman fly. Six months later and the answer was apparently yes.Featuring what many would normally consider an unremarkable armament for its weight, the main punch from what was dubbed the Slasher is a three ton hatchet which thanks to being paired with triple-strength myomer can inflict devasting blows once the right heat threshold has been reached. The designers originally intended for the hatchet to be discarded in an emergency so that the craft could enter fighter mode with ease to escape the battlefield but in practice the test pilots discovered they could instead throw the hatchet at targets which made a handy distraction in certain circumstances. This inspired the engineers to incorporate battlefists into the design allowing the pilot to engage in further melee should the hatchet be thrown.Unfortunately the Word of Herb caught wind of this design as well and decided to destroy all prototypes before any orders could be made. The engineers have now vowed vengeance upon Herb.
>>98770844Cosmere 1-C3M-BScout50 TonsBV: 2,114C-Bills (dry): 15,382,938Quirks: Improved Sensors, Low Mounted ArmsA platform designed with the idea of building a C3 Master LAM as well as a craft able to pierce into ECM protected defenses and use TAG to transmit more precise coordinates while also being difficult to shoot down, the Cosmere lived only a very brief lifespan as a project as the initial test run of craft revealed that the scope had grown outside of the point of viability - especially in terms of the cost the platform would carry if anyone would think of purchasing it with the ongoing reputation of LAMs as a boondoggle and the weapons systems - even if several sourced from clantech - were far from enough to be able to make the system worth consideration. This even before the number of roles that were attempted to squeeze into proved to be excessive and the platform was unable to excel in any of those areas as the project's scope stood.
Warthog WRT-10Skirmisher55 TonsBV: 2296C-Bills (Dry): 8,514,693Quirks: Combat Computer, Non-Standard PartsThe Warthog is a LAM designed around the idea of maintaining combat endurance, and was designed around a Reinforced structure with a particularly large, segmented fuel tank in the interests of this goal.This has resulted in it possessing a fairly limited speed compared to what could it could achieve if this goal was expressed with a focus more on speed, but the designers at Drask Industries considered this less of an issue for an idea they were hoping to market the platform upon - Boarding Actions. The LAM was intended to use Aerospace mode to fly up to the Dropship or Station intended to be assaulted and then transform into Battlemech form to climb along the craft before using its Medium Lasers to cut through the hull and allow it to get inside, with the Flamer being used to scorch personnel away.While this direction did not need ER variants, they were selected for assault of various ground installations in AirMech mode.The viability of this tactic is yet uncertain, but the focus on theft and the manner of it led to some nobles asking questions about whether Drask Industries had any connections to piracy. Investigations are ongoing as of 3150, and this has stalled the open market sale of the platform.
>>98777662It could have been even worse, anon. One of the original things I had been poking at with >>98773845 as also a dual-RISC build.As you said in >>98775651, great minds think alike it seems.
>>98777787Yeah, there is no reason for many of these weird restrictions. They hated protomechs too. We we could have overrided the MML restricts I personally would have been cool with relaxing or removing some of those nonsense rules.
>>98780383>I personally would have been cool with relaxing or removing some of those nonsense rules."Protomechs but without so many gay restrictions" sounds pretty rad, honestly.
do you think clans would accept a heavy mech that's 4/6/0 if it meant extra tonnage for stuff?
>>98780573You mean like the Nova Cat, various second line and Dark Age stuff? Nah don't think it will catch on.
>>98780675The design in question is a 70ton omni with 4/6/0 movement, 33 tons of pod space, maxed ferro fibrous armor, endo steel, a IS compact gyro and a regular fusion engine.
>>98780704>maxed ferro fibrous armor10 tons actually, forgot the max for a 70 is 11.5t
>>98780573Ehhh. I think heat is going to kill you here; yeah it's cute if you have the space for four CERPPCs but what's really the point if you can't bring them all to bear at once?
>>98780704Yeah you're not getting that without a small cockpit. In fact you get more closer with all IS tech over Clan tech.
>>98780721That is doable however forgot to add.
>>98770844Peregrine PER-3GScout50 tons7,527,000 C-BillsBV: 1823Quirks: Anti-Aircraft Targeting, Battle Fists, Cowl, Easy to Pilot, Difficult EjectionDeveloped to serve in a reconnaissance and raiding role the Peregrine is a classic LAM meant to sweep down from orbit, strike lightly defended targets or reconnoiter a more defended position for a larger attack, and then return to friendly lines. The inclusion of an enclosed ejection system, meant to provide greater safety and protection to the valuable pilots in hostile environments, proved prone to injuring pilots more than normal if they didn't land it carefully due to the greater mass of the system.
>>98770844Polo PO-10 ExplorerMechScout?30 Tons2,046,834 C-BillsBV: 335Quirks: Extended Torso Twist, Non-Standard Parts"I'm sorry, WHO made a WHAT version of the Marco ExplorerMech?"
Is this a bad time to point out that most anons have woefully underarmored the rear of their LAMs at least those who intend to make use of the fighter mode?
>>98786061Shhhhhh. Let it happen.
>>Challenge 19 votingHonestly we got more options than I expected with the restrictionsOur voting options.Pica PA-1AMaxell MXL-3Hyper Laser LAM Platform HLP-XWhistler WST-1AQGL-Y QuigleyWingback WNG-LAM-4BKSlasher SLH-LAM-3RCosmere 1-C3M-BWarthog WRT-10Peregrine PER-3GPolo PO-10 ExplorerMechOur categories >>Which do you think fits the challenge best?>>Which is your personal Favorite>>Which is the most innovative?>>Who is the meth baby?>>Which had the best narrativeOur next poll: https://strawpoll.com/GeZARWMjkyVVoting ends: October 7th at 6 PM EST
>>98786061I just close my eyes and let MegaMekLab auto distribute armor.
>>98786214I wonder how close the number of designs this challenge got to the number canon LAM designs there are.
>>98787008There is six canon designs that actually made it to production. But you might be able to double that with prototypes.I think this would be a fun challenge to revisit with some of the nonsense restrictions created to make them suck removed.
>>98786214>>Which do you think fits the challenge best?I'm gonna say the Quigley >>98775651. It is very much hitting the limits of what is possible, since the big things holding it back are the lack of Ferro-Fibrous and RISC Hyper Lasers being so experimental.>>Which is your personal Favorite?Bit of a personal bias as I made it, but I'm going to go with the Maxell >>98773658 . Just feels like a decently solid modernized version, even if in hindsight it needs some of its armor redistributed to the back for dogfighting.>>Which is the most innovative?Considering the nature of the challenge was pushing the LAM to its limits, I kinda think the best fit of the Quigley also takes this one.>>Who is the meth baby?Polo >>98784057 is basically trying to make a civilian industrial LAM is its own special meth.>>Which had the best narrative?While it is only really innovative in doctrine and thus I think it slips behind the Quigley, I like the Warthog >>98778799 's description mentioning they were trying to carve a new warfare niche.
>>98786214You know what I am going to preface this with that I was initially tempted to abstain from voting because I don't think you can really make an interesting LAM with the current rules but that would be letting Herb win. The main reason for this line of thinking is that you really can't do much interesting with the LAM concept because the rules just frankly suck having been designed to be needlessly convoluted and trip you up. Hell the damage rule changes screwed over official LAMs like the Stinger, Wasp and Phoenix Hawk because previously they had sufficient rear armor as those shots would have first been tanked by the leg armor in Fighter mode but not now. So well done anons for making an attempt.Anyway onto voting.>>Which do you think fits the challenge best?>>98771481Pica PA-1AThe challenge was to see how far you could push LAM technology and I think anon has achieved this completely by accident. One of the biggest things holding LAMs back is they absolutely suck in Fighter mode, like unbelievably so. To put it in perspective imagine that you're facing off against UrbanMechs but all they had was a small laser tier kind of suck. Anon here has made a LAM that can actually hold its own in a dogfight. It has speed that matches Aerospace fighters in its weight class. It has firepower that go out to extreme range and punch holes clean through most armor. While the limited fuel and lack of rear armor means it can't endure for long this at least has a fighting chance.>>Which is your personal Favorite>>98773658Maxell MXL-3Giving it here as it does feel like what a modern LAM should be. You probably would want to redistribute the armor a little thanks to Herb but yeah perfectly sensible little thing. Although it doesn't have the fuel to take advantage of it that Fighter speed is extremely good for a LAM
>>98789492Part 2 >>Which is the most innovative?>>98784057Polo PO-10 ExplorerMechYou know what an exploration LAM is actually a pretty neat idea. In fact its a brilliant idea that it is surprising it didn't exist previously. Funny enough this also has enough fuel to be deemed sufficient endurance in Aerotech.>>Who is the meth baby?>>98774013Whistler WST-1AAn ultralight LAM is cursed on so many levels its hard to not give it here.>>Which had the best narrative>>98778799Warthog WRT-10Really well thought out idea so I want to give credit where credit is due. Too bad it won't work or at the very least be a one way trip due to hull breach mechanics for LAMs but still a possible application for where a LAM could be useful.
>>98789492I really wish we could modify the rules in MML. There is no reason for many of those silly restrictions. I mean engine, armor and IS restrictions make zero sense as areospace fighters can also use most of those
>>98790921You can *sorta* work around it in one way. You effectively build out two sheets, then you fuse them together in an image editing software. You take the Mech Data (Engine adjusted to type), Warrior Data, Heat Data, and the Advanced Movement Compass from the LAM sheet that MML makes, while you take the Armor Diagram, Internal Structure Diagram, and Critical Table from the standard Mech. Critical Table then gets slightly modified to add the Landing Gear, Avionics, and Structural Integrity parts.This takes more work, but you can end with something that works, as the sheets MML generates *can* be overtonnage from what's allowed. Though BV in this fused sheet may be a bit off and you would need to make sure to add the "Illegal" quirk as one of them.
>>98790921There is a glitch with MML where you can in fact trick it to use equipment and armor not normally available by equipping said equipment then switching unit type without touching any other settings it should retain the items. Haven't figured out a way to make it work on LAMs though yet.
>>98790921I think the reasoning is that the internal components that facilitate the transformation uses up the same space that you would have to use for XL or endo steel. Not sure about Ferro-Fiberous/Ferro-Alluminum. I still say that if they cared in universe they could probably make it work.
>>98791636Apparently because they can't do split crits so everything has to be in one section which is why TSM is allowed but that doesn't really explain why then they can't use light FF or endo-composite.
>>98789492>lack of rear armorI just auto distribute armor, but it does make me wonder what a better armor distribution would be. 7.5 tons of armor is kind of thin, not sure what would be better. 10/12/10 on the rear I guess? Enough to tank a solid hit?
>>98718019Not sure about where your at with your contest, but posting just for fun.
>>98792914where's the ammo?
>>98793172>>98792914Lol he forgot to post the fixed version.
>>98793172>>98793180its in the head, dumbass.
>>98792914We are currently voting for challenge 19 the post is here.>>98786214 it also has a link to a poll for challenge 20
>>98791689On the one hand, I can understand this in the case of equipment and weapons systems because those spilling over easily being able to get in the way. Even for engines this is at least somewhat understandable. But Endo-Steel and Ferro-Fibrous? Aren't those just material upgrades? How the hell do those get in the way?
>>98794124Because something something something get in the way of transformation something something Herb is a bitch something something.
>>98792773I personally like the idea of having weapons focused in the torso and leaving the arms weak. Also I tend to overvalue CT armor and undervalue leg armor because I get fucked by gyro hits more often than leg hits.
>>98718019Chassis: BCB-3A "Brown CrabRole: 2nd line Command Mech/Sniper/JuggernaughtWeight: 70 TonsQuirks (I'm ignoring your limits because so do all canon mechs. Þe Marauder has only 3x positive quirks and no negative): >Command Mek | Easy To Maintain | Improved Communications | Rugged (1) | Accurate Weapon [Arm-mounted Large Lasers]>Bad Reputation | Cramped Cockpit | Difficult EjectionBattle Value: 1,631C$ cost: 5,899,850 Þe BCB-3A Brown Crab is þe ideal BattleMech for holding positions where you simply can't afford to send your most expensive units! At 159,233 C$ less expensive þan þe cheapest Warhammer and only slightly slower, þe Brown Crab's 14 tons of Carapace Standard Armor (4 more tons þan þe Warhammer!) Wiþ it's 4x Large Lasers & 2x Medium Lasers split between its arms & 2x Small lasers mounted in ball turrets on its legs to deal wiþ any pesky infantry þat get too close, þe Brown Crab will hold þe line long enough against most any foe to be able to allow any necessary reinforcements to arrive if it can't outright repel þe invader outright! Even more, due to our economic and efficient designs þe mech easily can use most-any brand for replacement parts as long as þey're for a similar class of mech! Þe mech also comes wiþ a disket loaded up wiþ schematics for replacement part fabrication þat can be accomplished wiþ standard dropship manufacturing capacities*! *Þese schematics do not include all potential parts, but only what can be manufactured on a dropship's machine shop.Now hear from some of our customers' testimonials!>Þis is Commander Phygia Dama of þe Marian Hegemony. While þe likelihood of deaþ via ejection is high, þis is acceptable for þis mechs abilities.>I'm Cecil O'Neill of þe Taurian Concordat. It overheats if you try to fire all lasers at once, but a lance O' þese'll melt most any Pirate raid right-quick!
>>98795721I wouldn't be obligated to humor your shitbox if it were within the constraints, on-theme, or put out during submission time instead of the voting period, but I'm definitely not getting paid to read around your fucked up text formatting.
Are these challenges just going to be just two anons voting from now on?
>>98796565nah, just give it a minute as some anons are at work rn
>>98796565There's seven people voting in the strawpoll, so it seems most are just too lazy to vote for mechs in the thread proper.Either that, or unlike the Dark Age Melee Mech this thread started with that got 6 people voting, people haven't been sure what makes a best fit/most innovative/meth baby for Mini Me and LAMs, thereby not voting because of that.
We have been having low votes but that just may be the challenges.Anyhow our challange 19 winners are>>Which do you think fits the challenge best?QGL-Y QuigleyPica PA-1A>>Which is your personal FavoriteMaxell MXL-3 >>Which is the most innovative?QGL-Y QuigleyPolo PO-10 ExplorerMech>>Who is the meth baby?Polo PO-10 ExplorerMechWhistler WST-1A>>Which had the best narrativeWarthog WRT-10 Our top preformers areMaxell MXL-3 QGL-Y QuigleyWarthog WRT-10 Polo PO-10 ExplorerMech Next challenge in a bit
>>Challenge 20: Extinct 1st Secession War mechThe opening years of the First Succession War were not just a clash of armies; they were the systematic murder of human progress. Between 2787 and 2821, the Inner Sphere transformed from the pinnacle of Star League enlightenment into a desperate, feral slaughterhouse. In this brief, apocalyptic window, the Great Houses scrambled to weaponize every scrap of advanced technology they possessed before the factories burning around them turned to ash.>>RequirementsYou are to build a mech that fits in the timeline, it can be advanced tech for its year, but no matter what it didn't make it past the 1st Succession Wars. Factories bombed, tech lost, poorly revived design or just low production numbers. Whatever the case it was created and vanished in this one era of history.Year: 2787-2821Tech Base: InnersphereTech Level: AdvancedPrice: Not a factor, but maybe in procurement votes.Role: AnySize: AnyEquipment: anything MML as 2787-2821 IS advanced settings.>>Challenge closes: October 10th at 6 PM EST
>>98797176Praetor PRTR-255tons10,035,837 C-BillsBV: 1,298Quirks: Accurate Weapon(Gauss Rifle), Hard to MaintainRecords of this mech are spotty, apparently a rarity even during Star League it was just beginning to be put into the field when Amaris kicked off his coup. Unfortunately for Amaris the company was firmly loyal to House Cameron and destroyed not only the technical data but also the entire goddamn plant in a single act of defiance. As such after the factories and facilities to make spare parts were bombed to shit the design faded and never really returned at all. After a memory core was discovered with some technical documentation on this mech was when we got proper information on it. Details attached
>>98797683SRMs and AC in one arm is interesting
>>98797683it shouldn't say gauss rifle but I guess I'm an idiot
Ruhm RUHM-175 tonsCommand Mech15,309,973 C-BillsBV: 1,408Quirks: Command Mech, Multi-Trac, Difficult Ejection, Non-Standard PartsA "light command battlemech" according to period Lyran sources, the RUHM-1 Ruhm ("Glory") was a domestic attempt by the LCAF to create a novel SLDF Royal design from increasingly scarce advanced parts in 2800, allegedly descending from the Excalibur and the Battleaxe. While most major powers became aware that the technological base for advanced Star League-era weapons systems was rapidly deteriorating, the LCAF decided to to install as much advanced technology as possible into prestige units for personal use by high-ranking commander on the field, of which the Rhum is the most well-known example.Mounting two LB-10X autocannons with four tons of CASE-protected ammunition, an extended-range PPC, AMS, Guardian ECM suite, command console, double heat sinks, an XL engine, multi-trac targeting and 9 tons of stylized ferro-fibrous armor, the Ruhm was an eye-wateringly expensive buffet of the premium military technologies of the time. A favorite subject of propaganda videos, the Ruhm was also a priority target which was easily identifiable at extreme ranges thanks to its distinctive armor, which added insult to injury by complicating ejection. The small number of units produced acquitted themselves well on the battlefield by all accounts, but their near-total reliance on LosTech made them increasingly difficult to refit and almost impossible to repair as the war dragged on and industrial capacity waned, with less than a dozen in active service at the end of the conflict and all known survivors recorded as scrapped for parts by 2030.While there is no concrete answer and opinions vary as to why the LCAF felt it advisable to concentrate so many premium technologies into battlemechs that were so difficult to maintain, the prevailing opinion is simply that the LCAF erroneously believed that what became LosTech would not in fact be lost.
>>98797176Monoeye MNI-4M80tSkirmisher20,848,200 C-BillsBV 1,876Command Mech, Difficult to Maintain, Obsolete 2805, Poor SealingA once-common command 'Mech during the opening years of the First Succession War, the Monoeye commonly lead heavy recon lances in defense of House Marik. The chassis' service to the Free Worlds League was cut short when its factory on Oriente was obliterated by Capellan forces during the Second Battle of Oriente. While stockpiles of parts allowed the agile Assault to survive to the end of the war, the Duchy had no choice but to abandon attempts to restart production after saboteurs destroyed all known copies of its specifications. The example known to have survived to the IlClan's founding stands vigil at a museum on Atreus, long since repurposed into an immobile monument after its valuable components were stripped out.
>>98797176Operation ConfStar Platform50 Tons"Cost": 12,008,917,500 C-BillsBV: 468Quirks: RamshackleAt the turn of the 2800s, Maskrova discovered information that would supposedly lead to a Star League cache of Mobile HPGs in a hard to reach boneyards. Recognizing the value in acquiring this asset that would let them gain an extremely useful advantage with how the Inner Sphere was shaping, the Capellans scrounged whatever parts they could get their hands upon to make a set of fairly heavily mismatched 'Mechs that could reach the site through the damaged terrain and would be able to bolt on two of these Mobile HPGs each for exfiltration through terrrain considered too difficult for standard Salvage Arms to safely carry them.Unfortunately for the Confederation, the preparations would be discovered by ROM and when the recovery operation was underway, it would be intercepted by what appeared to be a Federated Suns military force that claimed to be a unit that later correlated intelligence would find had already been wiped out two months prior. This unit would destroy all forces part of the operation and would pull out all of the Mobile HPGs before reinforcements for the secret operation could be mustered.Maskirova would presume that the unit had merely been made hidden for special operations rather than truly wiped out, in spite of its merely average reputation, though they were uncertain as to where the Federated Suns were using the Mobile HPGs recovered until it was eventually presumed they were merely destroyed in another incident. However, a handful of records accidentally released after Comstar was rendered defunct in the wake of Grey Monday would reveal that this was a false flag operation that had been conducted by ROM.
>>98797176Satsuki Sho STS-325 TonsScoutCost: 4,602,083 C-BillsBV: 582Quirks: Nimble Jumper, Exposed Actuators, Obsolete (2815)The Satsuki Sho was an advanced light scout 'mech of the Draconis Combine named after an ancient horse race in its old Terran homeland of Japan. Designed as an incredibly fast Mech that could both take on and outdo the capabilities of the famous Locust and Wasp battlemechs while maintaining similar armaments and greater armor, the platform generally succeeded at this goal. Unfortunately for it, this came at a very high price tag with it costing double to triple the price of those platforms. It similarly required very advanced technology in order to construct and maintain.As such, when the Draconis Combine's economy began to break down and falter, the general technology capabilities of the Inner Sphere were declining, and the Satsuki Sho's own production lines were struck, the platform fell into a death spiral which it would never be capable of recovering from, with only heavily damage or partially complete frames in the private collections of some Horse Racers being the only places that it could be found by the time of the Helm Memory Core's discovery. While the lines were never able to be fully brought back online, the Core's discovery did allow for these fragmented versions to be rebuilt to production standards and ultimately served as prestige pieces from then on.
>>98804487Whoops, grabbed the wrong sheet that had the WIP name before I decided to make it a Combine 'mech. Here's the proper one.
I wonder if a good challenge would be something like "Robbing the Taxpayers" where you are trying to make a 'mech that feels like it was worth it, if it were being sold for 3-4 times its listed cost because the company making it is trying to get some extreme markups.
TXI-2R ToxotaiRole: Missile Boat Size: 40 TonsPositive quirks: Improved targeting long, nimble jumperNegative quirk: Nonstandard parts, difficult to maintain BV: 1’292Cost: 5’766’277 C-BillsThe Toxotai was designed by the Brigadier Corporation as a light fire support mech in 2790. Slow for a 40 ton mech, it was seen as fast enough to keep up with heavier units and support them with its LRM 20s. Only a few dozen runs were finished before Lyran Commonwealth erased the manufacturing plant on Karachi, and pretty much everything within 65 KM with nuclear fire.With the Toxotais being difficult to maintain and parts hard to come by, the last operational Toxotai also died by nuclear fire on Caldrea in 2812 as First Leutnant Kurt Bernhard of the 9th Arcturan Guards held the line against the Draconis Combine as his own side dropped nuclear weapons on his position.
Inevitable INV-2Role: Juggernaut100 TonQuirks: Fast Reload, Multi-Trac, Flawed Cooling System, Poor Targeting (Short), Obsolete (2812)Dry Cost: 9,960,667The name of the Inevitable displays a large component of the hubris that went into the design. At its unveiling and until the Succession Wars, it had long been crowed that it would be able to fight any 'mechs while simultaneously supporting its allies that existed in any direction with its turret mounted LRMs able to swivel into aid them in their fights.The reality as revealed in the Succession Wars was that while it could take a punch and do a fairly potent Alpha Strike in many directions at once, its cooling systems were completely incapable of managing this in any sustained capacity even before a series of nasty flaws were discovered within the Cooling System.During the First Succession War, generals that too strongly believed its hype would rush i towards the front and lose many examples and it would slowly be relegated to more backline duties where it would be considered a fine enough mech to contribute to artillery bombardments that was capable of switching to a defensive focus if said positions were attacked.Between the destruction of its factories and the priority of repairing them growing lesser and lesser as the hype died, the platform would ultimately go fully extinct in the latter days of the First Succession War.
>>98797176Blue Crab BCB-A1Tech Base: InnersphereTech level: AdvancedPrice: 7,177,188 C-Bills (dry)BV: 1,665Quirks: Barrel Fists (LA, RA), Easy to Pilot, Poor Cooling Jacket x 2 (Ultra AC/5s)The Blue Crab is the first of a new series of Mecha designs for the Free Worlds League, under the new leadership of Charles Marik. This Mech is designed to control the air and dominate enemy vehicles from long range. Two Ultra AC/5s and two LRM-15s complete the weapon complement, with a top speed of 54 kp/h and 12 tons of armor. Ultimately passed over in favor of more flexible designs, the BCB-A3 ended up being a relic even in its own age.
>>98797176Sneed SND-1C55 tons9,455,362 bills (dry)BV: 950Quirks: Easy to Maintain, Rugged, Rumble Seat, No Cooling Jacket (Large Pulse Laser), Accurage Weapon (Fluid Gun), Exposed Weapon Linkage (Backhoe), Exposed Weapon Linkage (Buzzsaw)The devastation laid upon the Capellan Federation by the first Succession War was immense, with the agricultural sector suffering as much as the rest of them. Some whole worlds starved as war raged on and the value of being able to quickly build back farmland that had been damaged was clear. This encouraged the Capellan Federation to create a Mech that could engage in various agricultural activities, with a primary emphasis on seeding, feeding, chucking, and whatever else was necessary in the field. Thus, the Seeding Networked Ecological Editor Device was created, SNEED for short. The SND-1B is capable of e-agriculture on a level unsurpassed by its peers, with one ton dedicated to networking and communications equipment to properly coordinate large scale farming. It is stocked with a backhoe and a dumper for basic agricultural work, a half ton of liquid storage and a fluid gun for distributing water and nutrients, a buzzsaw for clearing trees and debris from fields, and a large pulse laser for various tasks, including defense. Paramedic equipment, remote sensors and a searchlight allow for dealing with emergency medical situations with both humans and livestock in the field, with one ton of cargo space in each leg and two in the left torso for transportation of feeds, seeds, or livestock. An XL engine provides a top speed of 85 mp/h and 8 tons of armor provide ample protection for a mech that should not be seeing any worse hazards than inclement weather and falling hazards. This design may have gone on to great farming deeds, but its only factory was located on Outreach which was devastated in a nuclear bombardment by the Free Worlds League.
Springhill SPH-3RRole: Skirmisher Size: 50 TonsPositive quirks: Extended Torso Twist, Multi-TracNegative quirk: Flawed cooling system, Non standard parts BV: 1’638Cost: 11’206’500 C-BillsThe Springhill was a Rejected SLDF design by General systems. It was pitched to replace the Wolverine. But the procurement offices went with the WVR-7H Wolverine II instead. The prototypes and plans for the Springhill would languish until the federated Suns claimed Caph 2787 when it would once more see production and join the ranks of the AFFS. When the Capellan Confederation conquered the planet in 2791, Springhills would also serve in the CCAF.Production ceased with the destruction of General Systems factories in 2793. The Springhill teaming suffered high casualty rates, not only due to the role they filled, but the flawed cooling system, advanced electronics and the ever increasing lack of hard to find parts. More and more damaged Sprinhills would be stripped when heavily damaged or suffering any MASC damage. The last few remaining Springhills in the AFFS were stripped for their valuable engines and Endosteel by the end of the 1st Succession war.
>>Challenge 20 voting is now openOkay our mechs for challenge 20 arePraetor PRTR-2Ruhm RUHM-1Monoeye MNI-4MOperation ConfStar PlatformSatsuki Sho STS-3TXI-2R ToxotaiInevitable INV-2Blue Crab BCB-A1Sneed SND-1CSpringhill SPH-3ROur categories >>Which do you think fits the challenge best?>>Which is your personal Favorite>>Which is the most innovative?>>Who is the meth baby?>>Which had the best narrative?Our next poll: https://strawpoll.com/LVyK2Ql75Z0Voting ends: October 12th at 6 PM EST
>>98812124Seems like I fucked the poll up guys. Give me a bit to fix or remake it
>>98812333Okay voting count should be 3 not one. Unsure if those of you who voted can add other options however.
>>98812350Doesn't seem that way, so sucks to be me.
>>98812374Damn. Not sure why it did that.
>>98812124>>>Which do you think fits the challenge best?Ruhm RUHM-1>>>Which is your personal Favorite?Toxotai Mek TXI-2R>>>Which is the most innovative?ConfStar Platform>>>Who is the meth baby?Inevitable INV-2>>>Which had the best narrative?Satsuki Sho STS-3
>>98807182>Our next poll: https://strawpoll.com/LVyK2Ql75Z0>>98810358>>98810734>>98811122>>98811180Bro, are you just dumping all your mechs? I was trying to show you some of my designs but it looks like these are all the same format and all done by the same person.
We use the Format in the OP. But two of those are mine, sometimes I have a single idea, sometimes I have two, sometimes I set it out.
>>98813706You've lumped at least three different people together with what >>98814157 mentioned.
>>98812124>>Which do you think fits the challenge best?I think I'll lean towards the Inevitable >>98810358 for this one, but only narrowly. It feels like a Peace Dividend mech, and the ultimate decision came down to the Obsolete quirk which is used to indicate when a platform lost its main factories (even if poorly named).>>Which is your personal Favorite?Ruhm >>98799001 which is the one that I feel was only narrowly beaten out. It's just a very well made entry, and it was only beaten out because it has an unclear death date.>>Which is the most innovative?I think I'll go with the Praetor >>98797683 on this one>>Who is the meth baby?The Operation ConfStar Platform >>98802561>>Which had the best narrative?Satsuki Sho >>98804487 / >>98804492 is a fun one
>>98813706Blue Crab and Sneed are mine, Blue Crab was pretty boring so I decided for a bit of a shitpost Mech
>>98813706OP here. There is nothing wrong with submitting multiple designs. This is about fun and everyone is supposed to use the same template. So it seems there are 3 people across the 5 designs you listed.If you have 5 ideas for one challenge, feel free to post them. Some folks skip challenges and done have more than one idea. Nothing is wrong with either.
>>Which do you think fits the challenge best?>>98804487 the Satsuki Sho STS-3 feels like a design that would have fallen by the wayside because of its tech.>>Which is your personal Favorite>>98810734 the blue crab. It just seems interesting to add to an assault lance.>>Which is the most innovative?>>98810358 Inevitable INV-2, 4 LRM 15s on turrets are just fun.>>Who is the meth baby?>>98811122 the Sneed SND-1C. It's a funky farming mech.>>Which had the best narrative?>>98799001 Ruhm RUHM-1, it sounds like LCAF alright.
I find it hilarious that even when the three votes made so far include the same mech, they put those mechs in different categories from each other.
>>98812124>>>Which do you think fits the challenge best?Ruhm (>>98799001)>>>Which is your personal FavoriteSatsuki Sho (>>98804487)>>>Which is the most innovative?Inevitable (>>98810358)>>>Who is the meth baby?Inevitable (>>98810358)>>>Which had the best narrative?Tie between Satsuki Sho (>>98804487) and Ruhm (>>98799001) and I'd be obliged if you'd split the vote but if not then I flipped a coin and the Ruhm won.
>>98820899That happens a bit in these votes, as folks view things differently. Sometimes you might have a mech that just dominates a category, but often you will see the same name across most of them
Our challange 20 winners are>>Which do you think fits the challenge best?Ruhm RUHM-1 >>Which is your personal FavoriteTXI-2R ToxotaiBlue Crab BCB-A1Ruhm RUHM-1Satsuki Sho STS-3>>Which is the most innovative?Inevitable INV-2 2>>Who is the meth baby?Inevitable INV-2 >>Which had the best narrative?Satsuki Sho STS-3 Ruhm RUHM-1 >>Top Contenders --5 votes--Ruhm RUHM-1Inevitable INV-2--4 votes--Satsuki Sho STS-3 Next challenge in a bit
>>Challenge 21: Tripods - Three legged madness Two legs are tradition. Four legs are stability. But three legs? Three legs are a declaration that someone in BattleMech design has finally lost their mind or got into the good drugs. The year is 3051. The Inner Sphere is already struggling to keep pace with the technological horrors emerging from the Periphery, and now you are gonna throw out one of the most fundamental assumptions of BattleMech engineering: Even numbered legs. Yes drugs are likely involved, yes they were expensive and possibly experimental drugs.>>RequirementsYou are to make a tripod mech, it can be IS or IS mixed tech as clans so far are immune to tripod madness. Well so far, some clans indulge in the good drugs too, give em time I guess.Year: 3051Tech Base: Innersphere or IS based Mixed techTech Level: AdvancedPrice: Not a factor, but maybe in procurement votes. Let's be honest, here, financially responsible people tend to run from the weird stuff, unless there are kickbacks to be had.Role: AnySize: AnyEquipment: Anything MML as 3051 IS or US based mixed tech advanced settings.>>Notes: I Rolled the tie and selected this era for more options Challenge closes: October 15th at 6 PM EST
Just a bump to keep it out of archive for now
>>98822281Fulcrum F7L-1CMMissile Boat80 tonsBV: 1,544C-Bills: 23,332,440 Quirks: Battle Computer, Improved Sensors, Non-Standard Parts, OversizedArmor: 14.5 tons standardWhen Comstar first learned of C3 technology many within the Comguards were intrigued at the potential applications. The limitation of the technology however was that due to its infancy the majority of units were based on its use within a single lance and what the Comguards desired was a machine that could link multiple level II's together while holding its own on the battlefield.Various designs were proposed with multiple C3 masters that would be capable of linking forces together but none held great appeal for Comguard commanders until an unorthodox solution was suggested to build such a machine using a tripod design capable of providing its own artillery support. This innovative suggestion held a certain appeal as although nobody had built a combat capable tripod since the fall of the Star League the twin cockpit design made it a natural candidate for a command unit.Despite showing early promise the inexperience with tripods manufacturing meant that production costs overran since each component essentially had to be engineered from scratch and the end product was a rather bulky monster of a mech. Regardless the newly christened Fulcrum would perform its task admirably in trials able to sit comfortably in the rear lines guiding and supporting friendly units where if it was attacked could weather the enemy fire till support arrived. While unconfirmed it is believed that some of these machines took part in Tukayyid acting as mobile command units which no doubt would have provided valuable artillery support.
>>98826707>AIV C3 missile boatWell, at least I have the time to start again this time.
While I know this are not popular and I think they look silly, there are actual benefits bro this layout and I want to point them in case folks don't know them. This Rules can be found in Alternative eras on page 157.- crew : mechs a 100 tons or less have a two man crew, a pilot and gunner/equipment officer. Super heavies have a 3rd a Technical offer. You can fight them with one crew, but at a penalty.*A dedicated pilot gets you a -1 to all piloting rolls, including physical attacks.*Dedicated gunner let's you target up to three targets without penalty, in place of the normal One target limit.*The super heavy technical officer gives a +1 to intuitive and a +2 to not shut down or ammo not go boom.Movement 1 movement to change any direction,.-1 to avoid fallsCan go hull down as a quadCombat360 degree field of fire. If it's not mounted on legs it's considered a turret Physical attacks can only be on the front archAs long as it's legs are working can go prone and fire everything on the torso or arms.They also have their own leg hit and pilot damage rules.Hope some of this gives some inspiration
>>98822281I was building around a gimmick that turns out to be completely illegal in 3051 according to the books but MML is giving me a thumbs-up; is that kosher or nah?
>>98829434Honestly the books change a lot and I have been using MML as the final word after a few challenges with contradictory rules.Out of curiosity I would ask you to list what it was when you post, but if MML allows it, go with it.
>>98829539Ehh, this one is "file a bug report"-tier illegal so I think I'll keep it in my back pocket in case that drac war crime challenge ever gets rolled out (assuming it's set Jihad or later, and I'm gonna cry if it isn't) but I have a backup plan. Thanks for the answer.
>>98827882I legit had this idea since the C3 Company challenge. I was very much annoyed couldn't submit it as part of that challenge due to the rules at the time.
