>be me>playing 5e in an online game with a friend and 2 guys i never met before>one of these two is the DM>PC are traversing a dark forest>DM: "btw anon roll for perception">Me: "ok i rolled a 17">DM: "ok you happened to spot with the corner of your vision what seemed to be a humanoid shadow leaning on a big rock between the trees... but maybe it was simply the light and shadows tricking your mind.">Me: "uh... Ok, then i suddenly stop walking, turn to my friends an-">GM: "as the group proceed through the forest you reach a clearing with a circle of menhirs..."Bitch, why the fuck do you make me roll for something when you don't want to have me interact with the fucking scenario?>inb4 hurr durr five eeeBeggars can't be choosers, either that or GMing myself for alternatives and right now i wanted to fucking play for once.Anyways post your stories
>shit that never happened thread
>>98718877I've not had many outright bad GMs. Some that did a bad job moving the game along. One many years ago who made the ruling that my PC could not come up with plans without the Tactics skill.
>join an online nomad/wasteland focused Cyberpunk 2020 campaign>the rest of the players have been playing with each other for a few weeks, im joining thr campaign late>first session is an introduction where my character joins the party. Nothing other than that really happens but I look forward to the next session when we finally get to do something >next session the party takes me back to the nomads settlement they're based out of, meet the local NPCs and learn the tribes culture and politics. Its basically a background lore info dump from the GM. Our characters once again do next to nothing while the GM narrates. I figure its session 2 and introducing me to the world is necessary so I think nothing of this. Surely next session we'll do something>Nope. Its another session of the GM just yapping and world building. None of the other players seem to find this odd. I try to interact and do things but this only seems to bother the GM and he always steers us back to him monologuing >This happens again the next session, I decide screw it, im going to just leave the camp and finally do something and convince the other players we should try to score a gig and do somethjng.>Nope. The GM finds some excuse to have us jailed, than has us continue to listen to his world building and monologue from a jail cell. He's literally role-playing multiple characters at once while we are forced to watch some one-man theater show.>but theres hope! At the end of the session we finally receive a task. After 5 sessions of listening to the GM rattle on, FINALLY our characters will be given some autonomy >NOPE>he attaches some GM NPCs to our party, giving himself an excuse to continue monologuing >We finally reach our gig location, where we are supposed to nab a neighboring nomad group's water purifiers and generators. >figure we will now be let loose to figure out a way to secure the mcguffins >lol no. We watch his GM NPCs negotiate a trade deal with the nomadsI left after that
>>98718915>t. no gamePeople fuck up all the times anon, what's so unthinkable about?
>>98718971Having NPCs talk to one another is sometimes necessary, but a bad habit to overindulge in. Too many GMs in this hobby just want you to listen to their novel.
>>98718990Nta but no, if you have a dialogue between NPC, unless it's something really important for for the PC current objective, you need at bast to enact the first interchange and then quickly paraphrase the rest, especially if there's no way for the group to interject. It's a game so pacing is key.
>>98719026Paraphrasing is only for the most irrelevant dialog. Of course players should be able to interject.
>>98718938I'm seen plenty of bad GM's but mostly they're just boring and run the game based on vibes where you move from skillcheck to skillcheck until a fight happens (the fight is set up like a JRPG random battle that takes an hour or more)
>>98719035Sure but context matter, for example if you're playing a rogue in the shadows listening to a couple of guards chatting in order to prey for informatios that's clearly a scenario in which paraphrasing (with evocative descriptions of course, paraphrasing doesn't mean you have to be cheap) is necessary, because, conversely, it would eat up time for the rest of the table.
>>98719060Well, yes. A dash of flavor, a paraphrased bridge if necessary/appropriate, then the actual mest.
>>98719060I think that's a good example of the kind of conversation it makes sense to paraphrase or add a tiny bit of dialogue then paraphrase but I've seen people say "NPCs, no matter how important, should NEVER talk to one another and if you do this you are a BAD DM!!!!!", which is ridiculous.
>>98718977He has a strange image of what a game is in his head, forgive him.
>>98718877>inb4 hurr durr five eeeThis shit has got nothing to do with the system used and it's all on the GM, things would be the same if you played anything else.
>>98718877>online gameCould have just left it there. Playing online is kinda like how having condom sex with a woman you're not into to break a dry spell. It doesn't really count and your subconscious knows it. It loses that sense of camaraderie and the ambience of the dice rolling across the table. Which magnifies all the bad things about the game.
>>98718877>Beggars can't be choosers>proceeds to bitch about what he got
>>98719532Nah, i was just anticipating and shutting down the usual faggots shitting on anything with 5e in a post. I don't like it, i can stand playing it but pretty much i don't think about 5e more than that.
>>98719573That's the thing, i can't chose by i can bitch, no contradiction here.
>>98718877>online gamemaybe it was just technical issue, lag or somethingor just hint for something later, like you are just observed, no need to make longer scene
>>98718938I've had a number of otherwise average GMs make some serious mistakes. Between actively excluding players from certain parts of the game, forcing scripted losses when the players are just following linear story hooks, and lifting adventures straight from critical roll without consideration or alteration, I've seen a lot of shitty ideas run across my table.
>>98718877>>playing 5eCould have just stopped there to meet the "shit GM" threshold.
>End of campaign, we're wrapping up our characters and what they'll do in the future>DM breaks out the Deck of Many Things>If there's one thing that makes my group retarded its the Deck of Many Things>DM irl has a tarot deck and has assigned tarot cards to the DoMT>Everyone takes a hit (or few) from the deck; everyone mostly gets good things>My character gets called to a super important NPC councilwoman >She casts a spell on me that forces me to draw from the deck (no save)>DM irl shuffles the deck>Does a terrible job of hiding the fact that he's keeping the top card of the deck on top and shuffling everything else>Oh boy what's this card going to be can't wait>Donjon, yup what a surprise, my character is gone foreverI consider that ending noncanon and my character retired to raise horses for racing and adventuring.
>>98719574You should have just rewrote what you didn't like.
>>98718877>Beggars can't be choosersFalse.At an absolute minimum can GM yourself, not play, or play solo.
>>98719977>At an absolute minimum can GM yourself, I said i could GM myself but i wanted to sit in the player spot for once>not play,I'm trying to form a new group for when i want to go back at GMing, sitting on my ass won't do that.>or play solo.I always wanted to try that but i figured that i would love to have a dedicated hobby room for that (for making terrains, minis and keep folders and stuff), as things fare right now i work in mobility so i don't stay long enough at my home (which, on top of everything, doesn't have a spare room to use for that) to give me time to set that up.>inb4 you can play solo everywhere with a bunch of dice and a notebook, or straight up on a laptopYeah, that's not enough to entice me in playing solo.
>be forever GM like 90% of the time>I like it, it's no big deal, allows me to try out systems no one would ever suggest>want to actually play once in a while>option 1 is our old GM that never has time to prep anything worth it, so just half-assed one shots>option 2 is a new very enthusiastic guy with little experience, has tried GMing small stuff like green oaks, is now jumping into something more serious, can't deviate from the module if his life depends on it, can't improv anything yet, but is very obviously trying to kill someone every session>option 3 is a new experienced guy who wants to GM pathfinder 1e, says he wants to follow a module as well and looks like he's strict with rulings, but at least he knows the rulesBasically I'm betting on 3 to actually have a semblance of a good time because of the game itself rather than the company. I know I will have fun anyway, but I'd like to enjoy the game part sometimes.
>>98719633Why didn't you just decline drawing the card? Or just at any point of that charade?
>>98720183I got a summoned to this politically important person, went there by myself because there was no suspicion of any skullduggery, I get there and she cast a spell on me that I had to draw a card with no saving throw. It was the last session of a long campaign and I didn't feel like ending the campaign and dragging the table mood down by complaining while everyone else is on a high note.
>>98720221The one who dragged the mood down was the GM that specifically targeted you with some bullshit.I at least hope that that experience taught you to grow some spine.
>>98718971I had a dm that had numerous long sessions like that. I remember one session we had a long tour of a city and got attacked in one of the parks. GM had the local guards cast some variant of Legend lore that visually displayed the exact events of our combat encounter to determine exactly what happened 30mins ago. Then we got a tour of their menagerie with literally thousands of epic level monsters. We were level 4. Just casting legend lore at all requires being either 8 or 12. I knew at that moment we were on the fucking rails and any step off it was not going to happen. At least half the sessions were decent adventurer fare unlike your dm's
>>98718971Okay so this is a question for all of fa/tg/uys that actually played games. I have this rule that unless players strictly put me in a position that I should avoid having 2 NPCs have a conversation at all costs. To me if you're in situations where two NPCs dialogue that is a very bad sign. This rule generally served me well. Thoughts?
>>98720292That's a fine rule, personally I wouldn't add "at all costs", a sneaky character eavesdropping two NPCs can be a nice way to introduce some crucial information, but I agree that it should be avoided on principle.
>>98720292The few times I absolutely have to make two or more NPCs interact I either paraphrase it all or I paraphrase what one is saying and just add short interjections by others involved in the scene. There's a load of intrigue and political shit coming so I better get ready, fuck my life.
>>98720292My party was a group of privateers that was working for a town. We were occasionally called before the town council where its members would debate the pros and cons of a course of action, sometimes giving the PCs orders or requests and other times simply presenting arguments and persuading the PCs to consider them when choosing their own course of action. It wasn't strictly necessary for this to be a group meeting, but it should be obvious why it's better this way: you have multiple NPCs with different points of view directly addressing each others arguments. You COULD have done this instead by having the PCs talk to each NPC separately and in isolation, but this is both unrealistic and wouldn't have improved the experience in terms of speed or entertainment.
>>98720292Good idea unless you're a really funny person and doing a bit or an eavesdropping scene.There's 2+ other people at the table. If they aren't engaging on some level with what you're doing you're doing something wrong.
>>98720331>a sneaky character eavesdropping two NPCsThat's literally the only situation I had where I had to do a NPC dialogue. There was also one in evil campaign where a bunch of very cowardly players pushed one innocent NPC into a particularly bad situation just to see what would happen.>>98720343>There's a load of intrigue and political shit coming so I better get ready, fuck my life.This is why I prefer outback low to mid level campaigns
>>98720292One technique I would use is having another NPC summarize things to the PCs so it becomes an 1 NPC conversation. EG if it's important to the plot that the king and his cousin the duke have a huge argument, the players could be informed about it by a chatty knight who was standing guard at the time. I wish I'd figured this out earlier. I had a really awkward time trying to roleplay out multiple parties in a complicated court scene in L5R back when that was a huge game.
Daily reminder that you're if you're a playoid who never takes a turn behind the screen, you are lower than the worst GM. Even ones who insert their fetishes into the campaign or ask AI to design adventures.
>>98720364I also enjoy low to mid level adventures, usually, and as a matter of fact the PCs are around mid level now. The situation now is a combination of several factors, from some players not being involved anymore due to life to the players actually having enjoyed the game to this moment, so they ask for more and more, and me rolling with everything coming up during the games. There is no plot set in stone, just a starting situation at the start of every adventure and then they're in the sandbox.The problem is, what started as a sort of campaign where the players had to solve stuff in their own little corner of the world, and then move to neighbouring lands to exploit political turmoil to make a military move and get more and more power, got turned into a more subtle political thing. And the players aren't that equipped for it, so I will have to make them sidestep the trickiets parts to influence events in another way, unless they actively try to jump into those.
>>98720248Sperging out over a game you're done with isn't growing a spine you autistic retard.
>>98720528Just throw yourself on the back and present throat. Impotent pacifists are the worst.
>>98720528>sperging outNo, just decline politely like a normal person. Maybe explain that donjoning your PC would be upsetting and you don't appreciate that kind of jokes.
>>98719633Should have cut the deck or took another card if you knew they were killing you
>>98719026>paraphrase'paraphrase' does not mean 'make shorter'. This was about the worst word you could use that technically could mean what you mean.
>>98722246Well, i'm ESL, what should i use for "don't speak in first person but summarize the whole dialogue through a third person point of view"? Paraphrase seems a good fit.
>>98722246Paraphrase is the correct word you absolute mongoloid
>>98722317'Summarize' would have been good.
>>98718877Benefit of the doubt: GM wants you to start next scene with a hint, without making a whole new scene where you go on a snipe hunt.
>>98719633>>DM breaks out the Deck of Many ThingsThat's the end of the campaign, whether or not it's meant to be. The only fuckery here was the DM messing with the deck and attempting to force you to draw, but you probably could've defused the situation by offering to draw a card willingly if you could cut the deck.>>987201093. There's nothing wrong with a GM wanting to run a module and being strict with rulings. There's something very wrong with a GM that doesn't know the rules, can't improv, can't stick with it long enough to run a campaign, and is adversarial.>>98720292Generally speaking, a NPC shouldn't talk for more than 10 or 20 seconds unless they're interacting with a PC directly. How many NPCs are eating up that time isn't important, just the length of time it goes on for. Example:>npc 1: we should just attack from the front, they already know we're coming>npc 2: if we go around the back they won't be ready for us>npc1: it'll take too long, we have to move now>npc2: pc's, what do you think?Even though the NPCs were talking with each other, they were providing useful information for the PC's (in terms of possible courses of action) and they brought the PC's into the conversation too quickly for anyone to become disengaged.
>>98722484Counterpoint: terrible execution, if that's what he needed then a plain narrated introduction to the scenario would have sufficed>as you traverse the forest you feel an eerie sensation of danger, as if the forest itself is observing you. Eventually you see from distance a clearing were a circle of menhirs towers bofore you, but, as you approach it, anon, make me a perception rollThere: tension is built and the PC can interact with the scenario right after the hint is given.
>>98719619>maybe it was just technical issue, lag or somethingIt's not the first time but the other occurrences were less egregious than this case, though i used the possibility of a lag as a foothold to address the issue to the GM in a soft way.>or just hint for something later, like you are just observed, no need to make longer sceneSee >>98724117
>>98718877>Be me.>Looking for gaymes.>In small town so online only realistic option.>Find one that works for my time AND is fucking Gundam RPG.>Turns out it's 5e 'reworked' into a gundam system. But to be fair, 5-6 autists made it, and the rules are longer than the 5e core book anyway.>Also the concept was basically "Gundam Top Gun".>Get to playing. Everyone is stoked.>DM has the wettest, most nasally, pathetic voice you could possibly have.>Think of the single most insulting caricature of a nerd talking you could do. With the heavy, wet breathing, stuffy nose, no volume modulation, unironically goes "Ackthuahlly".>Worse than that. Somehow much worse.>Was clear to me that, while we had a decently socially capable table, who were all interested, GM is not socially capable in the slightest.>Campaign start.>Party are going to Gundamverse pilot university, where their ship is attacked.>Get a few rounds of space combat in objectively shitty mecha against half our number of slightly less shitty mecha, but which would probably wipe us.>Get rescued before anyone is in any critical danger, by the DMPC/Gary sue pilot guy in a special gundam.>Who then just says hi, and awkwardly flies off.>Fly the 200km or so to the gundam school base. At least, the GM says we do.>Rest of session is basically being lead around the school while the GM introduces us to the various teachers, all anime women (not porno though), to the accompaniment of romance visual novel grade musical backing.>Generally not much more than "Next you meet X. They're the gym coach. She can increase your Y stat."Despite all this, I actually enjoyed the initial session and was actually kinda keen to keep playing (either a surprisingly fun game would shine past GM's comically bad communication skills, or it'd all end in tears and I'd get to witness some proper rpg horror story stuff), but literally all the other players, without any communication with each other, independently quit the game.
>>98718877Have you tried not playing d&d?
me...I was the shit dm..>run combats without maps, making players disoriented about what's happening>bend so much to the players' whims that the players themselves ask me to be more strict>plotlines that keep adding more and more elements without going nowhere>too much lolrandomness just for the sake of it
>>98725070We all were at some point anon.
>>98724940I literally joined a PF2E game where the DM sounded like fucking Isaac Leon for those who don't know, basically a retardlike it was really bad I couldnt get it out of my headthe other players steadily started dropping out after the first sessionI feel bad because the DM does seem really passionate, so I'm giving it a go with the second session since the DM got new players but we shall see how it goes
>>98726200>Isaac LeonHad to look it up, but I get what you mean.The GM should sound better if he stops being fat.
>>98726514you dont understand it's like same cadence and stuttering
>>98723101>3.My point exactly, number 1 is a decent fella that would love to be able to work on more involved stuff again, but he and his oldest buddy made it clear that they'd only be able to do that if we resumed their own old campaign where they built the world and NPCs and is basically their HBO series of all time.Number 2 is also fun to play with and a good person, it's just that when he plays he can only make evil or borderline evil characters (regardless of alignment, and even when there is no alignment, that's how he behaves) and it carries to GMing. Our first Dragonbane adventure we tried ended with a TPK, bad luck on random encounters, yes, and I can get behind him not pulling any punches, but he was clearly having a bit too much fun. I suggested he actually kept GMing that since it looked like the perfect system for him, but he decided to try something else. I can respect that. I can respect less him looking like someone who got his favourite toy stolen when a PC manages to save another PC that was about to be killed.Number 3 just had us try pathfinder in a one shot so I have no idea how he will handle unexpected stuff on the fly, but he's competent.
>>98718877>slightly annoying observational cue>GRR SHIT DMyou probably failed the check retard
>>98728199Against a roll of 17. Maybe more if he had points in perception. That is a sneakybeakie.
>>98728199>ominous perception>fuck you, you're not allowed to checkHow about you go write a book instead?
>>98729059No, >>98728199 is right.Paranoid players who stop the game at EVERY SINGLE TENSE MOMENT to do a 200m area sweep for traps or a detailed game plan discussion over the next half an hour of game time are utter fucking cancer.Your GM/DM is not going to rocks fall you. Your character had an ominous premonition but noticed nothing out of the ordinary, while walking through a spooky forest.You do not need to bring the game to a halt to rigorously comb the fucking shrubbery, on the way to the fucking dungeon, where the GM has prepared the activities of the evening.I get maybe four hours a week to play this game, and I don't want to waste at least an eighth of that time sharing a tired look with the GM/DM while three of the players get each other more and more afraid for their PC's lives because one PC felt uneasy.
>>98720292Better than the opposite. My DM occasionally has to when it makes sense and we enjoy watching the schizo stage play for a minute or two max. Can even be funny. But yeah. Rare event. I wouldn't work super hard to avoid it if you're not inclined anyway.
>>98729266Like i previously said, then the issue is terrible execution, there are multiple way you can incorporate the ominous premonition in the very introduction and that is obviously the wrong way of doing it, here an example of the good way:>PC are traversing a dark forest>DM: "btw anon roll for perception">Me: "ok i rolled a 17">DM: "you traverse the forest continuously troubled by the eerie sensation of being preyed on, multiple times you seem to catch movements with the corner of your vision, humanoid shadows at time ominously appearing right behind trees and rocks. And yet at any double take, at any time you make your party stop to check your surroundings you find nothing, as if the very forest purposely mocks you...>DM:..utterly disturbed you press through upon reaching a clearing with a circle of menhirs...There, it's not that complicated.The GM in the story clearly fucked up, happens even to the best of us and he will probably get better with experience.
>>98729369>>98729266>>98729059There is a huge difference between "you feel uneasy/you feel you're being watched/it's too quiet" versus "you see a humanoid figure watching you." One is just a feeling, the other is an observable threat. Telling someone that they saw a person watching them and treating it as unreasonable that they would try to interact or investigate is unrealistic.
>>98730578Totally agree, that's why i feel it makes more sense to weave it in the introductory narration IF you don't want to lose time on the spot (the forest path) and have the pc initiate interacting with the scenario based on that information right in front of the clearing, but, to be fair i think it would be better to design the scenario for the pc to act immediately after the hint as specified here >>98724117
>>98718877Have you tried the following in a friendly tone?>Hey GM I really wanted to react to that. Is it okay if we jump back really quick?>Uhmm no>That's fine, let's not hold up the game.Alternatively>Uhmm okay>Thanks! After the game you could quickly talk to him and say something like "Hey man thanks for always putting the work in for us. I know DMing is a ton of work and you're quite new ro this. When we have stuff like that perception check in the forest it feels kinda bad if you never let me react to it. No it's fine just suggesting you only make us roll when it's crucial to the game and when we can influence and interact with the outcome. Like that shadow? I'd have loved to investigate. Thanks man, appreciate what you're doing and see you next time. "
>>98718877>>playing 5e in an online gameNigger what were you expecting?
>>98730750Why do something that might fix the problem is if you can complain to strangers on the internet instead?
>>98732438Not mutually exclusive
>>98730750The problem is the DM has transgressed already. Umm no, should be met with a fuck you, or some nicer version.
>>98729369>"you traverse the forest continuously troubled by the eerie sensation of being preyed on, multiple times you seem to catch movements with the corner of your vision, humanoid shadows at time ominously appearing right behind trees and rocks. And yet at any double take, at any time you make your party stop to check your surroundings you find nothing, as if the very forest purposely mocks you...>DM:..utterly disturbed you press through upon reaching a clearing with a circle of menhirs...and then OP would open teegee and contort the events to a greentext where >the DM just fucking narrated our game, telling MY character what HE was doing with several actions in a row without a chance to have ANY input without him, like WHY EVEN roll then?"
>>98718877>be me>got the itch to play Changeling the Lost>only game I can find is a roll20 game>apply with a character concept and get accepted>drawfriend even makes cool sketch for my character>one day before the game>GM says my Tunnelgrub Darkling is disgusting and wont fit with the rest of the group>rude but okay>change it to something else>game starts>the first thing coming out of the GMs mouth>"So as you are running through the Hedge, you found anon's character in a cage">they release me and we keep running from... something>we escape into the real world>one character decides she needs to shop for clothes>they roleplay the shopping in excruciating detail for 2 hours>session's over, xp gets handed out>leave and never returnLast time I played on that shit site.
