Titanicus has been played! editionPrevious thread: >>98784111>HH 3.0 - Complete gofile - All Books:https://gofile.io/d/cnJk0N>Titanicus Compendiumshttps://gofile.io/d/bVNzwe2R>New Edition, to a great wailing and gnashing of teeth:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/setting/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloads:https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/warhammer-the-horus-heresy/>Thread FAQ (very old, remembers Age of Terra)https://pastebin.com/iUqNrrA8https://pastebin.com/8riDmnhS>30k TACTICA & TIPShttps://pastebin.com/Tm2P4QLphttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Age_of_Darkness-Warhammer_30k/3.0_Tactics/General_Tactics『Adeptus Titanicus and Legions Imperialis』>Official FAQ/Errata/Downloadshttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/downloads/legions-imperialis/>List of Titan Legions with Badges and Colourshttps://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17Jccq0V--SwJifLVLwbisYnQeqLlS2pMSiPbGXp1Brs/htmlview>More listshttps://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/List_of_Titan_Legions>What size magnets do I need?5x1mm>Tacticshttps://1d6chan.miraheze.org/wiki/Adeptus_Titanicus/Tactics>Legions Imperialis Army Builderhttps://legionbuilder.app/TQ: How would you design a Titan-based video game?
>>98803373first-person, you're a tech-skut running around inside the titan's very cramped corridors fixing shit, there's other tech-skuts and tech-priests and princeps and whatever, the whole thing is shaking, you keep having to do puzzles, build engine door physics, random electrocutions, always breathless, constantly muttering and swearing, sometimes you're in combat, sometimes you're not, time trial mode, endless mode
Is S8 melta sufficient to your needs anon? Is S8 melta a fool's errand?
>>98803625hmm lemme check The Current Times™ rules...>no murderfuck blastFool's errand. *stamp* Next!
>>98803752I would expect melta blast guns to have blast yeah. Didn't they have blast in 1E? Or melta blast cannon, whichever each one is.
what are the most distinct pre-primarch legions to make an army around aside from the lunar wolves?
>>98803829All except EC and Sallies. Those had barely any character before their Primarchs.
>>98803803>Didn't they have blast in 1E?Yes, it's right there in the image. Area 2". Next to the 2e Wargear entry.
>>98803803I posted both 1st and 2nd, both blast. in HH3 some still do.
I plan to make my own faithful abominatus conversion one day (or at least period accurate. I'd like to make some unique changes) but the difficulty is in tracking down all the 90s bits even with the full list from CJ/Firepower. If I can't even find an STL of a legit epic brass scorpion how am I going to find a game piece from Mighty fucking Empires? GW knew that it was hard to find everything at the time that's why they sold you a kit with everything in it for £10 by mail orderI guess I could spend 100s of hours learning to model the parts myself. I know how to use CAD but making a lame 5 polygon technical drawing of a keyway isn't the same as making a highly detailed model of a mini part.Also this image from Firepower has meme potential.
>>98803803To answer your question in a non-disingenous way, no only the vehicle mounted meltas ever had blasts, the main benefit of a multi melta has always been the range...which is why they've always sucked, because they're much rarer and more expensive and their melta range still isn't high enough to be worth the massive downside of a relatively short ranged weapon that is also heavy, vs just rolling a meltagun up in a rhino (not that anyone did either mind you, because the only vehicles anyone played in 1.0 were either artillery that was never in melta range anyway, or had armored ceramite and turned off meltas. Meltas had a real chicken and egg situation in 1.0: nobody took vehicles without armored ceramite because fire dragons i mean melta TSS just meant they'd get removed of they ever advanced, but also since no one took non AC vehicles meltas were also bad. That plus, you know, why bother with melta when you can just drop earthshakers and medusas on them)
>>98803625Str 8 is sufficient for what it has to do. It melts terminators and troonstodes, hurts dreadnoughts, and with 6 dmg in melta range you only need one penetrating hit to destroy the majority of vehicles. Melta support squads are very useful, and multi-melta support squads are finally playable for the first time in history. But the magna-meltas on my predators are Str 9.
>>98803946DG with multi meltas were pretty good in 2.0 because of the extra range, idk about 3.0
>>98803625>power mace
>>98803946>>98803886>>988037521.0 was its own beast. I believe 3.0 eases using a meltagun and multi melta like never before.Notice I said ease of use - the actual payoff isn't so convincing at a glance.But I'm obsessed by the concept of a battering ram. I think Termite Drills, Achilles Land Raiders, and Mastodons, are the closest to it.Rams mostly matter against relatively unused forts, but the enemy will surely bunch up their forces at their objective. That's the wall I shall tear down
>>98803969A termite drill is not a ram, it is in fact the opposite of a ram, it prnetrates within the walls rather than from without. Vindicators and Arquitors eould make more sense for such a force
>>98803969I have an unnecessary love of termites idk why maybe because I always think about Lev Goshen.I'm surprised FW never made a 28mm Hellbore and sold it for £1500
>>98803999Yeah they are. Plus they're an important source of antitank.I guess they could clear the way for infantry marching behind them, and the melta transports I mentioned are closer to siege towers instead idk.I just saw siege engines with melee range and thought "that's a battering ram".
>>98803969>Obsessed by the concept of a battering ram>Doesn't mention the caestus assault ram at allFucking casual.
>>98804177the prettiest darling in heresy, fuck its so good in 3.0 as well. Blessed be the Caestus and any chads who run one.
>>98803625S8 melta is sufficient for the proper targets of S8 melta.
>>98804356It can still do decent into AV 14 in a pinch. A new player who made a multi-melta hss has been popping the local veterans' kratos tanks left and right, causing much seething.
>>98804380>It can still do decent into AV 14 in a pinchFrom experience? Very unreliably.
>>98804384That's why take melta in squads who can bring ten. Only one or two need to get lucky.
>>98804388For the things you need 6s for? You need two usually. Which is where the issue lies, between the to hit, the 6s to pen and any potential saves you arent very likely to get it in a shot. And 10 man melta squads are pretty expensive and not exactly super mobile or durable. Ive seen someone suggest HSS multi meltas with death guard, stick them in a drop pod or something. Apparently they keep their heavy benefit if they disembark less tha 4", so theyre S9, which is a very big difference (2x the damage vs s8).Personally I find it all too unreliable and situational, I think there are better tools for Av14 hunting than MMs or normal meltas. I see it as a niche "explode a soft target" button. For killing Av12 rear superheavies or non 14/14/14 vehicles (like knights, or artillery pieces, or whatever else). A small drop of them can do that pretty well (melta has a real "overkill" problem imo, a small squad is more than enough for most things and for the things it isnt a big squad probably wont be either due to how hard melta damage spikes/craters)
>>98804424Not saying there aren't better options to deal with AV 14. But when you're taking that 10 man multi-melta squad to melt terminators and custodes anyway and the opportunity presents itself, firing into AV 14 can be worthwhile. Melta squads are one of the few remaining more flexible units in that regard.
>>98804177Eh, it's a flyer. I've sort of never minded flyers, though Air Missions sound interesting. If only they could choose to remain on the field instead of automatically going away...It's got ram on its name. Man I'm so sad ramming is gone.And it's a bit weird Cestus got Predator melta guns instead of Melta cutters
>>98804723Space ships are flying fortresses, especially in the grimdark. The caestus assault ram is designed explicitly to fly full speed into enemy space craft, ramming through armour it softens up with its melta weapon. It is quite literally the sci-fi version of a battering ram.
Can't wait for legion stuff in plastic
>>98804803Hope you've got some patience.
>>98804803Not gonna happen pal.
Does anyone have the book for the tzeentch daemons? I cant find their rules properly anywhere.
>>98804796>ramming through armourA Melta drill would make sense here
>>98804831Yes, I have the physical copy. If you want a scan you'll have to wait.
>>98804807>>98804813What else are they gonna do? There isn't much left to do
>>98804895Oh, so you're a tourist.
>>98804831I have most of them
>>98804900>Bikes>Land speeder Proteus>Land speeder javelin>Aquitors>sicaran upgrades>Recons>Destroyers>Sabers>Tartar & Mk5It's really not a lot, most has been done>
>>98804895Buddy, go look at the list on GW’s store page and see how much is left. Just off the top of my head, you got seekers, recon squads, vigilators, destroyers, moritats, bikes, land speeder variants, LoW vehicles, sabres, all the sicaran variants, and so on. Unless GW wants to really up their release schedule, we’ve got years to go before legion specific units ever make the jump to plastic.
>>98804956>and so onThere isn't much "so on".The saturnine boxset introduced like 7 new kits, and it was then quickly followed by 3 more, right before the boxset there also was 3.Can fit virtually all of what's left in a ~13 kits wave, bar LoW models.
>>98804934flyers?
>>98804934>Already a substantial list>Still forgot a bunch of unitsAnd with the precedent set by tarantula sentry guns all the legacies units need to be added to.
>>98804983>Box that introduced a bunch of brand new units we didn't have beforeSo besides the units that still need to get plastic units there's also a chance of new units getting models. You're literally defeating your own argument anon.
It might be cheaper to literally coat the models in gold than follow GW's recipes.https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/e5pkuure/liveries-of-the-legio-custodes-during-the-horus-heresy/
>>98805101GW doing whatever they want is defeating the argument that legion stuff is coming because?...
>>98804983Most of the non-marine armies are also largely in plastic now, too. Unless they keep making shit up or remake another whole ass army (SoS or Ruinstorm?), HH4 could probably blitz the rest of what's missing for legion models but they'll sure take their sweet ass time with generic characters.
>>98805109>3D render has leather pads than full leather gauntlets like the official paintjobs
>>98805142It was taking too many prompts ok
>>98805125GW employees have repeatedly stated they are doing the legion agnostic units first, before considering moving on to legion specific units. During live stream interviews, it's all out in the open.
>>98805158So GW does whatever they want, but they also never skew from what they said in the past?
So they gave us solar auxilia, the elite of the imperial army, then they gave us imperialis militia the uh...militia of the imperial army. But why no regular imperial army troops anons, what's james' end goal?
>>98805162The new units are all legion agnostic. So yes, they haven't skewed from what they said in the past in this regard. Any more attempts to move the goalposts?
>>98805109Why did they downgrade from the cool art in the old black books into this lame ass 3d lookin slop?
>>98805179It's pretty obvious anon, GW doesn't wanna have to pay good artists for their artwork any more.
>>98805109The difference between the old FW paint scheme and the current Eavy Metal one is notable.I'm surprised GW put an older model in this image
>>98805207do you expect those lazy fucks to paint a new one, and worse at that?
>>98805222No, I just wouldn't expect them to show the older FW stuff next to the newer plastic
>>98805207Is that even the old scheme? The FW scheme was more verdigris than that
>>98805109>That picWhat the hell is even that?
Is having two kratoi okay if they both are using the battle cannon with flashburn shells with autocannons and heavy bolters?
>>98805169>argument>goalpostYou're playing on your own, I ain't wrong nor wasting my time on you.Legion stuff is coming to plastic sooner than you think
>>98805165Militia with Warrior Elite + Legacy of Crusade
>>98805359Blessed be the mind too small for doubt.
>>98803752multimelta pop up attacks were fucking cancerthat or all the lead particles and glue fumes, i forgetdamn this brain cancer
>>98804983>Can fit virtually all of what's left in a ~13 kits waveIn theory yes, but in practice GW usually only has a big release at the start of the edition, followed by drip feeding their customer base with occasional small releases. Releasing the rest of the plastic legion agnostic units in one go would be ideal for players, but more likely it’ll take at least until the next edition. Given the current edition churn, that’s probably going to be at least three years until they even start to look at legion specific units.
>>98805129>SoSThere’s a few additional specialist units mentioned in the black books, but idk if SoS could ever be a whole army on their own. Would love to see it though, they’ve been far to neglected by GW in recent times, especially with all the custodes releases.
>>98803954I think the change from 1/54 or whatever it was to onebang a land raider with an inferno pistol to being able to hurt it, but not stop it moving or blow off a gun with the same weapon this edition is a positive fix for a problem that was allowed to fester for too many editions>>98804424multimeltas getting Heavy (RS) for Reactions is a good way of keeping other units the fuck away from them - better than 40% chance per-shot to take 3HP or 6HP at 8" is a really good reason not to try and drive up and vomit terminators on a defensive position without a good distraction elsewhere to eat the Reaction
>>98805473I didn't like the old list with the jetbikes and beastmasters and stuff, it felt like militia-but-special, the answer to bullshit warp cults shenanigans nobody wanted in the first placeI can see them being specialist-heavy in later lists, you know, black ship warden-type, psychic drain claws, exorcism sword lady, that kind of thing; but it's a fine line between being militia-but-special, marines-already-can and sisters-of-battle-ported-unithaving said all that about beastmasters a lady with a pittie that just stands there until you charge and then it absolutely savages your throat would be very funnystill think their flame and bolt weapons should have psy-shock as standard tho
>>98805493>not wanting them to be militia That'll be impossible, as long as they're t3 chaff whose abilities aren't relevant in 90% of games. Both sisters and custodes should've never been allowed beyond narrative games depicting certain battles, and fuck the signus and prospero retcons
>>98803406YOU’RE IN LUCKsaw this comment yesterday and it bugged me because I totally saw a trailer for a game *exactly* like this description. Took me forever because apparently there’s an Attack On Titan game coming out too? Made it hard to find but I finally did, it’s called Engine of Sin. It’s either out or coming and if this isn’t Warhammer-adjacent I don’t what is. Enjoy: https://youtu.be/aC7VxmaiYQg?si=4SSHneLvMp7B74Rz
>>98805473Like what they're doing with the sand skittles this edition, I think they're fine if they're a complimentary force that isn't *too* holistic but fills in niches that Custodes lack, while maybe having enough to play a game of Zone Mortalis on their own (or at least close). Thing is, are needlers, snipers, heavy weapons, scouts/infiltrators, and toadline bullies enough?While we're at it, give me Grav-Rhinos and Armoury Thralls.
>>98805473SoS had a fully fleshed out army list in 2.0 then they butchered them in 3.0
Do you bother with working over your Indomitus Terminators a bit to make them look a bit more HH, or do you just sand off the Crux Terminatus and call it a day?
Flay clade done to a tabletop acceptable level. Might go back and finish off the details on their guns once the bases have dried. The silder shoulder pads work pretty well imo, really make them "pop"
>>98805165Because between those they ARE the imperial army. Certainly going by how GW is tellings things currently. But also:Because between those you dont leave enough room for another faction to stand out and have its own identity. SA are the "elites of the imperial army", but theyre still not very elite, and milita are crappy but not that much (depending on provenance). Theres nowhere for "normal dudes that are crappier than SA but not quire as crappy as militia" to exist and not feel redundant (not least because militia themselves can already just do that). Like, imagine a "imperial army" leman russ, how is it different to a SA one? What about the basic imperial guardsman? How is he going to be different to a militia trooper?
>>98805179Because it's cheaper.
>>98806086Nta but do flip through book 4.
>>98805305Sure? Its what, like 500~pts for that? And its a very durable bit of armor, but the damage is obviously a bit lacking into anything except demons and SA/militia (and even then specifically infantry). If the question meant "is a kratos so OP that having two is faux pas"? No. Kratos tanks (the loadout you think of) are very good at their job, and very bad at every other job. Theyre an expensive specialist piece designed to bully other tanks, to the point where investing in two of them is almost entirely detrimental, because it eats into the army you need to do the things the kratos cant while being even better at the job a single kratos is really good against. Its okay if you expect to face a SA armored division, but vs a normal combined arms force youre going to quickly run out of enemy tanks and have expensive 400pts bricks killing 2/3 marines a turn.
Ded thredDed gaem
>>98806493My ugly models killed the general.
>>98805165other anon is right, they are the Imperial Armyare you thinking of the Astra Militarum, the reformed professionalised and standardised body of fighting troops which exists post-Heresy
>>98805582holy shit my brain is on youtube
>>98803373>TQ: How would you design a Titan-based video game?You remember that game guns of icarus? About slow team based airship combat? Like that. The titans are slow and ponderous, with weapon arcs and facings being really important. Bigger titans are also balanced by their physical size meaning that getting from one place or another takes longer, you were putting out fires in the right leg and need to be in the left arm on a warlord? Thats taking a while of nothing but mag-chutes and crew conveyors.
>>98806743>>98806086At the beginning, Astartes Legions were regular 7E but with spam and relic gear.I wouldn't mind the Imperial Army being regular 7E Imperial Guard but with relic gear.The move from Imperial Army to Imperial Guard was the separation of Guard and Navy. So...the imperial Army is Guard plus Navy assets (Aeronautica)So... current IG. It ain't like there's anywhere else to take Valkyries. Valkyries, which alongside airplanes (Thunderbolt etc) and those bombers nobody uses, constitutes 99% of suborbital Navy assets.
>>98807022But SA and Militia already have the planes. The only thing they lack are specifically valkyries, but its a smarter idea to just give them to one of the two (or both) if the vehicle is period appropriate (same for the chimera) as opposed to making an army thats just militia without the USP and with two exclusive units. Like thats the thing, if you want guard (as experienced in 40k) miltiia are right there. If you want a more elite version of guard then SA are right there. There is no room, game wise, for an army between the two of those forces because the system just isnt granular enough for that (and provenances can represent a slightly more elite militia force anyways). And the chimera and valkyrie are also likely missing for good reason (to make the game feel more distinct, as opposed to "this is just 40k"). The space marine legions dont feel like 40k marines OR 40k csm. The guard analogues have just enough different equipment and units to feel like distinct forces, which helps sell the fact that this is 10k years before the modern day. Giving some hypothetical imperial army the chimera (and derivatives) as well as the valkyrie (and derivatives) both feels lazy and hurts the atmosphere of the game, but also kind of undermines the thematics. You would need those tanks to be absolute fodder, because the whole point of 30k is that this is the imperium at its height, and that what they have in 40k is a pale echo of this squandered power. Marines drive around with full squads of special weapons, use paragon weapons, have squads in AA and use tanks that way bigger than the ones they had later, etc.
>>98806310I just wanted to put together a tank list. So far it's looking like: Command Spartan Forge lord 2x despoiler squads with power weapons and power fist sarge2x rhinosKratos, decurion locus, battlecannon, flashburn shells, autocannons, and lascannons 3x predators, 1x conversion beam cannon, 2x magnamelta, all lascannon sponsonsKratos, decurion locus, all volkite3x predators, 1x conversion beam cannon, 2x magnamelta, all lascannon sponsons3x vindicatorsI don't expect it to be top tier or anything, but I've also yet to see someone try and vehicle army in this edition yet so I have no idea what the power level will be in practice when everyone's going crazy about how one Kratos is Invincible
>>98807169For just thematic/aesthetic reasons I would suggest swapping the vindicators for predators.But otherwise that seems cool. Wont win very much because of scoring stuff (outside the tallarn tank missions), but it seems like a fun base for an armored list. >when everyone's going crazy about how one Kratos is InvincibleThats the thing though, you pay a lot for the durability. The kratos is a slow box opener, its not a broken unit by any means, just good (and even then dependent on your opponent bringing some big tanks to play). Dont feel scared to try them out, even with the melta cannons. Theyre not OP or anything.
>>98807022The Imperial Army also had access to certain wargear and vehicles that became exclusive to Astartes after the heresy. Things like land raiders, rhinos, land speeders, even dreadnoughts.
>>98807065>miltiia are right thereMilitia aren't Guard, anon. Guard is ORDERS. It is officers issuing orders.You can have horsemen, Ogryn, dwarves, whatever. What matters is they get issued orders. Otherwise they are just T3 people.Solar Auxilia have officers coordinating the overall effort, but they don't issue orders because they are drilled enough that they already know what they're supposed to do.Militia aren't issued orders because many are drilled enough only up to the point where they know how to hold a lasgun right.Not to mention Militia are soooo not Guardsmen that they have a whole ass subtype for themselves - Militia subtype.Give Solar Auxilia both Valkyries and Chimeras.Give Militia both Valkyries and Chimeras.Release Imperial Army, give them both Valkyries and Chimeras, and give them an Orders system, because they are above militia PDF, but not so much above that they know what to do.
wow that's a lotta wordsbut I don't read posts by nogames
>>98807285>Things like land raiders, rhinos, land speeders, even dreadnoughts.I'd be willing to treat Sentinels as dreads equivalents, Auroxen as Rhinos, and even Dracosans as Land Raiders.
>>98807332>>98807065
>>98805913Using old Indos, I swapped the torso fronts to CSM ones (with some wiring and gubbins on the front), swapped the crux pad for a studded one, used CSM terminator arms (swapped CSM combis and axe heads for cleaner ones), put plumes on top and cingulum militares on their belts.
>>98807022>Astartes Legions were regular 7Eneeeehhhhhh not really
>>98807329Nta but orders are the most cancerous memory I have of guard before I switched to hh.>unit is equipped with grenades but can't use them unless they are given an order to do so>"C'MON DODGE HARDER"It's like the medic reaction thing but someone decided it should be the face of an entire faction. They didn't really make sense because it's not like there were downsides to them so one could mentally justify things like special weapon sections firing less shots but at a higher BS or viceversa or grenades being limited so they were being saved for more important moments. Instead what I remember from orders is>"SHOOT HARDER">"k">lasgun becomes S4I haven't kept up with 40k but I wouldn't be surprised if basic guardsmen had to wait for an order to use their lasguns now.
>>98807544>I wouldn't be surprised if basic guardsmen had to wait for an order to use their lasguns now.I mean, do your models just start shooting whenever they want, rather than on their turn in the shooting phase? And only when you want them to.
anyone willing to drop a link for mailed fist, battle of tallarn, and/or prospero burns scans?
>>98807570The equivalent in HH would be having tacticals only fire their bolters when reacting.
>>98807630https://gofile.io/d/dXPu2Djvbest prospero pdf I could find
>>98807654appreciate it!
>>98807544Agreed, orders have always been fucked for Guard, if not in theory then at least as far as GW has been able to implement them.Who could forget the classic case of basic human infantry grunts being able to run faster than marines and eldar when their boss shouts at them. This is still how the guard works as of 11th and this is still extremely stupid.
>>98805165>Another mortal armyanon please, i just want more stuff for the auxilia they don't even have special weapons
>>98807630https://gofile.io/d/tvFfp9WqThese are the ones, that i think, anon shared. Remember like that anon said, when someone ask nicely share it.
So we're definitely getting specific Nurgle and Khorne daemon army lists at some point, right?
>>98808361Yeah, those are mentioned indirectly in the last article and GW tries to sell miniatures for them.
>>98808361It'd be funny as fuck if we got Vashtorr and Horned Rat randomly.
>>98807652Never buy Tarantulas lol
Please help anons. Does anybody knows from what box is the hooded head?
>>98807340>>98807332
>>98809323Corswain maybe?
>>98809323idk check out the primaris dark angels range
>>98805913
>>98809323All i need to do is search that picture on google, and it traced back to the poster from reddit. It's Mkoll from Gaunt's Ghosts.
do volkite weapons glow? I am painting some night lords and I was wondering if I should do a glow effect on them
>>98810639Technically no, but who cares it looks cool, which is the only thing that matters in this setting
>>98810639Their coils heat up like in your pic.
>>98810943
>>98810639it looks cool so yeah
>>98810978I trust Alan, no one else.
>>98811096>book 6 Might as well be fanfiction
>>98811105It's fine to be wrong anon.
>>98811110I'm not even that Anon, I just know anything after book 3 isn't Canon and was just made to sell toys
>>98811182Show me that there is fluff about volkite coils not glowing in the first three books then if that was just a change to sell volkite.
>>98811105Why even post? Its clear what the coils do regardless.
>>98811182Anon I hate to be the guy who breaks this to you but all the books were designed to sell you toys
>>98810546Ah, thanks mate. It did not crossed my mind to do this search :/
Which Deredeo loadout complements the Iron Warriors ruleset the best?
>>98811460Whichever you think looks the most cool.
>>98811507the most optimal one.with highest efficiency in game.
>>98811507Are you an idiot?
>>98811460What does that even mean? Legions arent monolists this edition, it entirely depends on how you build your army and what it needs. Especially since the IW trait is purely defensive.If you need AT then the lascannons, if you want some anti infantry/status application the volkite, plasma if you want to deal with heavier infantr... etc.
>>98811460Lascannons and the Aiolos.
>>98811577Go back to 40k faggot, we don't want your insufferable WAACunts here.>>98811645Are you an tourist?
reminder that anons who talk about statistical efficiency are guilty of the gambler's fallacy
>>98810639>>98811096induction doesn't make things glow
Do these guys look fine for traitor SA?
>>98811752Those look designed by someone who has never painted a model in their life, for people who have mountains of unpainted models to purchase, print, and then never paint
>>98811673that is beyond retarded. Fast moving DG formations, WS siege companies?
>>98811770Both of those are things that exist, both in the lore and on the tabletop.
>>98811773yeah but allowing those, before a slow moving foot DG force or a full WS bike force, is insane.
>>98811752I absolutely HATE how CADslop has ruined chainmail on miniatures. CHAIN MAIL DOES NOT LOOK LIKE THAT YOU LAZY FUCKING HACKS, REEEEEEEEE
>>98811781what the fuck are you on about, both of those things are also "allowed", no one is going to stop you going that shit.
>>98811770You're the retard here if you think the death guard just gave up and called the White Scars for help whenever they needed something that moved faster than infantry, or whenever the white scars encountered fortified resistance
>>98811783It's sci-fi tech called coinmail, duh. Far to advanced for out feeble minds.
>>98811781Oh it's this retard again.
I'm adding something fast to my DG just to spite this guy. What should it be?
>>98811808A Land Speeder, with MKVI crew, with the graffiti reading "2FAST4U" on the side
>>98811808Jetbikes, that ought to really piss him off. Also because jetbikes look damn sexy in DG colours if you ask me.
>>98811808Jetbikes, theyre both super fast and honestly quite good for DG. Because if I understand the RAW correctly DG get their stationary benefits when they DS (since they count as having moved, but they havent moved more than 4"), so you can DS in S9 multi melta bikes, which is honestly pretty damn scary and can realistically onetap land raiders and up. Land speeders can do the same, but they look worse. A xiphon is also a cool idea imo, theyre pretty cheap and super maneuverable, great for coming in to put pressure on backline targets like artillery and whatnot. Just shoot basilisks and shit in their rear armor 10.
>>98807654thank you great fish
>>98811783Youre not wrong. But the counterpoint is "this visually reads as chainmail (far moreso than the other "hack" for chainmail, which was "holes in a texture") and is probably many times easier to put on models than the alternatives"
>>98811847Fuck you for making me READ the rules to make sure that's how it works. Best I can tell you're right. So I guess the fast thing I add to my DG is some damned jetbikes.
>>98811923I was made aware of this when someone mentioned dropping in a 10 man HSS squad with MMs via drop pod.
I just want three things before the year is over.1. A decent plastic HH release that doesn't butcher a pre-existing design2. Getting the time to paint my Dark Angels3. Getting my cock sucked by that goth chick again
>>98811941Somehow the third option is the least unrealistic lmao
>>98811941>A decent plastic HH release that doesn't butcher a pre-existing designVenatari and Custodes walkers and vehicles are fine though? Rest of the infantry sucks.>inb4 it's also a cross-compatible 40k release so it doesn't count
Is the new plastic malcador worth getting over the old resin one? I assume its much more convenient to build, but I cant help shake the feeling the resin one looks better. But maybe thats just the default GW paint job being poo.
>>98811923NTA but DG jetbikes are pretty slick looking.
>>98812090Probably, both moneywise and for the ease of building the thing.Looking at the unpainted resin/plastic versions, I can't see much (if any) difference between the two, so it's probably just the paintjob being shit.
>>98812130Moneywise I can source a (obviously recast) malcador for around £10 less than the plastic version fwiw, but it would be resin and limited to a specific loadout (lascannon turret, demolisher cannon).
>>98811786So "not stoping", that when you look at every marine list, no matter the legion 2/3 of them look identical. events had to ban the use of more then 6 weapon platforms because everyone was jailing the other army during deployment.
>>98812136Honestly go for whatever works for you then.I am drunk and can't offer good advice so unless you want a different loadout go for the resin one if you don't mind working with resin.
>>98812145Whoa! Every marine list runs tactical marines! Say it aint so! Yea, no shit most legion lists look similar, thats whats supposed to happen. Dark Angels and Ultramarines arent different armies, theyre different flavors of the same army and should (and do) operate around a shared core of the same units spiced up by unique options here and there.
>>98812145Do you think "nothing is stopping you from running a retarded "nothing but bikes" list on your white scars" is the same as "therefore everyone is going to be running that retarded "nothing but bikes" list?
>>98812179>>98812188Just ignore the polish retard.They'll shit up the thread with 'oh no my list which makes no use of any unit other than bikes is unbalanced and can't score properly how could GW do this to me' and other incredibly retarded takes.
>>98807544>>98807810I played guard few times. Their leaders felt like they were helping and directing their troops, unlike marine HQs who were simply the biggest guy around, much like orks.Militia HQ don't help their guys - the Force Commander is just the biggest mortal around. He unlocks the 2nd trait, but the army is much the same without him.The Discipline Master is the one who helps the army. By being a Commissar in all but name.Solar Auxilia HQ buff their army...>Yeah! So SA are IG...with their presence alone. Idk, I always thought IG officers buffed their armies one squad at a time through orders. It is up to the player to know where that attention is directed to.Unironically most people do work harder if their boss shows up and tells them to
>>98811733
>>98811577>the most optimal one.with highest efficiency in game.I fear this might be in line with IW's fluff, not gonna lie. The arithmetic of massacre and such.
>>98812276Aa we all know, being yelled at gives you the strength, speed, and accuracy of a space marine. All the organs don't actually do shit, the real magic is just the vox in their helmets constantly yelling demeaning messages from the Emperor in their ear.
>>98812445Speed? Yeah. Accuracy? Aim THERE goddammit, there. All the organs make a marine do all those things all at once at all times unsupervised. I am fine with unlocking a single one of those things by having an officer devote his attention to it.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofPYvcTpKi8
A question anons If I can eventually track down, recreate, scan or closely proxy STLs for every single OOP part used to convert an Inperator into an Abominatus, would any anons be interested in a kit with it all like GW used to sell?I'm trying to work out if it's worth doing that to help others instead of just buying the old minis to make my own and weighing commercial interest Vs GW breaking my legs.
>>98812608Forgot pic
>>98812090In terms of looks it is supposed to be the same but i have seen someone claim that the solar auxilia russ has actually different proportions to the old krieg ones that is supposed be based off, so i am not 100% sure.
I was expecting more telegram channels for sharing STLs. Shits be barren.Has GW been bribing Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum with tomb king minis to nuke them?
>>98812771few months ago a good chunk of them got nuked, it doesn't help that very recently a ton of creators went low in their discord and secret clubs.
Which missions are good and, dare I say, fun?Which missions should I avoid, and/or how might one fix them?
>>98813383We've been really liking the relic hunt missions and they've basically supplanted any of the BRB missions
>>98813393Wait, which book are those from?>>98813383If y'all got some mission you like, please say the source
>>98811577Hah ur GAY
Welp the first heretical deviation from the STC template on the Imperator has already happened. I had a happy accident Infuriating bullshit where I dropped the uncured titans hip piece which broke off the self defense gun emplacement from it's oddly cock like position on the piece.Luckily I have a spare siege mortar from an Epic Armageddon Medusa that should be a more impressive dick barbican if I can kitbash a suitable gun mantlet for it. Also I'm not shitposting and I'm 100% earnest when I say I really hope they add (Joey) JonJon Blanchisian to The Scouring made into a serious character like they did with Arkhan Land and his Monke. Make him a respected magos who once worked with the Emperor on designing the MK1 power armour or something
>>98812090It's missing the engine and it's way more pieces but it won't need to get the heat gun treatment for straightening out bits so ymmv.
>>98813468>Wait, which book are those from?NTA but theyre the hand of mars ones iirc (the one with skiitari), You have to get a relic and do int-checks to score points or something.
Why is making models based on good art bad again?
>>98815046Must helmets always have something on top of them? A vent, a spike, a plume. A vertical reinforcement stripe along the dome would be just fine
>>98815137It's "glorious history" type art you hang in a mansion so it's going to be like that.
>>98815046just because old doesn't mean goodCurrent daemonettes are closer to the old art but would you really prefer those to diaznettes? It's the total assassination of creativity. Just regurgitating old art over and over.
>>98815195>just because old doesn't mean goodThat wasn't the argument when defending the previous MkIII helmet.
>>98815240Alls I know is that I prefer the old mkiii models to the new ones
What do (you) think is the best weapon for custards jetbikes?The flexibility of the arachnus seems kinda cute but it just lacks any volume on the high S shot and being s8 sucks
>>98815278>What do (you) think is the best weapon for custards jetbikes?The one you think looks the least cool
>>98815046>>98815240What part of "FW MkIII design was the best and being discontinued is a loss" you don't understand?
>>98815345Perfection
>>98815356I am most forgiving...I heard some just do a head swap between old MkIII and NuMk3 and that's it
>>98815345The part where I did not like them even when they were new and had to listen for over a decade of "this is the future, old man, deal with it". Well, now it's your turn to deal with it and I'm all here for it.
going to convert hurons captain sidekick into an SA commander, anyone suggest any good headswaps? I will settle for either a cute girl or a cool helmet. Maybe a reaver jetbike one from the dark eldar?
>>98815046Because the old mk3 is iconic and looks better.
>>98815451she's wearing Navy Breacher armour, there's a lot of heads in that kit that'd dobe aware her head is molded in two pieces, the face is attached to her chestpiece and the hair is attached to her back fur/feather cloak thing
>>98812297induction isn't making that coil glow, resistance within the coil is making it glow
>>98815530>be aware her head is molded in two pieces, the face is attached to her chestpiece and the hair is attached to her back fur/feather cloak thingWhy the fuck are modern GW sprues so retarded?
>>98815530Thats fine, ill just cut it off.
>>98815696yea, this doesent look too bad.
>>98815709God i hate GW designers so fucking much
>>98815985>how DARE they work within the constraints of injection molding technology>they should assemble the models for me!
>>98816000>completely misses the point of the complaint>doubles down on defending something that was not an issue in injection moulding beforeMany such cases.
>>98815530>the face is attached to her chestpiece and the hair is attached to her back fur/feather cloak thingThat's some Dead Silence shit
>>98815537Yes any resistance would make the metal glow. Direct current also would.But this is akin to you saying rain doesn't wet things, that's water's doing. True...but one does beget the other.
>>98816048if your induction plate is making your pans or its coils glow you've got problems
>>98815631To avoid compatibility with 3rd party bits without cutting stuff.
>>98816083Nta but my induction plate isn't incinerating marines across a room. Is it broken?
>>98815985For?Yes, these new "carved up" models are harder to pose and convert than the old "parts are modular" ones. But at the same time the way they design models now IS more intricate and "detail heavy" than the plastics back in the day. Its a model designed for the greatest "as intended" experience as opposed to modularity and ease of conversion, and I dont think I can fault the designer for that since I imagine the average customer of theirs does not actually convert very much. At the end of the day you can still convert her and models like her, its just fiddlier and more annoying to do.
tankschizos, does fluff say the IIb configuration can only be applied the Phobos? FW used to have official art of a Red Scorpion Proteus with the IIb sponsors (pic) but doesn't say if that configuration was unique to them
>>98816359Iirc book 1 has a WE proteus with armoured sponsons too.
>>98816220if you're replacing the coils on your volkite every time you use it, you're using it wrong
>>98817072It might come to you as a shock anon but I don't own a volkite charger, I own an induction plate whose electrical power is apparently comparable to one according to >>98816083 and I don't change its coils.
>>98817102Yeah you ain't conquering a galaxy with that
What do you defend your home objective with?
>>9881717120-man tactical squad with a Librarian to specifically spit in Mortarion's face.
How would you differentiate Seekers and Recons? What are some distinctive visual details for each beyond weapons?
>>98817262Coats, amount of scopes, colored stripes on magazines, camo.
>>98817262>What are some distinctive visual details for each>beyond weaponsThat's like asking me to differentiate Tacticals and HSS other than their weapon. Doable...but doesn't that ignore the main bit?I suppose Recons got antennae because they relay info back to the rest of the legion (plus capes & scopes), while Seekers are not unlike Sternguard Vets: marines with special ammo and ranged veteran bits, such as eye visors and monocles.
>>98816359What is the "IIb configuration"? Armoured sponsons? The IIb is just the Epic Land Raider brought into 40k and FW decided to take the sponsons and flip them onto the Proteus later. There's nothing more complicated to it than that.
>>98817262Recons have the whole heat recycling equipment on the backpack and generally look like they operate more independently. Hence all the backpack poches and all that. Cammo cloaks are also pretty much a part of them even tho they are not a thing anymore. I don't think Seekers are meant to have any of those things since they are basically just ranged veterans that are deployed to kill specific things.
Snagged a saturnine box for 130 quid. Feeling good lads.
>>98817558Why for does the Saturnine box only have 8 Saturnine minis?
Realistically, how many of these sets would I need to populate a 4x3 ZM board? I feel like 3 should be roughly enough, with some extra terrain populating some larger open spaces in the midfield. I'm getting recast ones, obviously.the first person to recommend 3D printslop or laser-cut MDF gets the rope
>>98818432Don't those only cover 1ftx1ft board? You need like 16 bro
Hot take: anyone that defends sarum as just a mk2 pattern should allow primaris helmets as a mk4 pattern, because they're just as anachronistic snd bullshit of an excuse
>>98818082Something like Dropsite or Istvaan might have been more descriptively in line with how 40k does it, but 30k only has so many notable battles/battlefields, so they might not have wanted to start on that pattern. Saturnine also wouldn't overlap with any older publication while emphasising the shiny new units that had some hype behind them between the egg-terminator nostalgia-bait and the big new dread.
>>98818450I was afraid of that. At the risk of making the table a little thematically incoherent, I was thinking of bulking it out with some plasma generators, barricades, and manufactorum containers I have kicking around. Maybe throw in some other necromunda stuff as well.
>>98818432You need a shit ton of those long walls but the set only give you ONE. So in 3 sets you get 3.You can look at this picture of a randomly arranged 3x3 board and count how many long walls you needed , with the blank spaces presented doors. You could also replace the long walls with the big doors.Also use the old FW door that actually opened by rolling up and down instead of the new sideway slide slop.
>>98818572>opened by rolling up and downah yes, a man of culture.
>>98818457Hotter and drunker take: who fucking cares, retard? Never seen anyone use “they look like x” reason. How about MK7 are the original Marines for this stupid ass game/lore and you’re a cuck for going along with GWs rea$on$ we need XYZ armors styles to play, beyond the obvious bastardization that is prim*ris?
>>98818475>30k only has so many notable battles/battlefields30k has more battles than it can fit into an edition going by the current rate of 3 years.
So I think I'm missing something here.Weren't Leviathan dreads able to take up to three Hunter-Killer missiles instead of the Phosphex Discharger?Am I tripping?
>>98818082Because 8 saturnine minis is still like 800pts.
>see the price of the standalone MKIV Assault Squad>just buy another Maximus Battle Group because it's cheaper
>>98819009>Am I tripping?Yes.
>>98819009In 40K, not Horus Heresy.
>>98819069That's dumb though. You'd think that HH would be the game where we have MORE options, not LESS.
FAQ & erratahttps://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/nk1he02z/rules-update-comes-to-warhammer-the-horus-heresy/
>>98819187God Saturnine is such assLiteral third-party sculpts tier
>>98819187>Vanguards usable nowHappy days>It's all because of custardsShame
I’m morbidly curious as to how the new termies actually feel to assemble. If they make another discount box with them in it I might pick it up.
>>98804000My biggest disappointment with 3e is I can't run my termites like I did in 2e. I had 4, so now I literally can't bring them all on during a game. It wasn't good, I'd have half my army stuck in a quarter of the board and usually lost on objectives before I could bring anything to bear, but I loved it anyway.
>>98819187So after so many months no change to bad legion traits. Only change to venguard(good) and no change to line or giving line/venguard to units that have good damn venguard in their name or description. No fixing of automated weapons, no points adjustments, no making dreadnoughts powerful again. No fix to the state of SoS, no nerf to pts costs of mechanicus and SA ?
>>98819290What new Termies?
>>98819307The less changes the better
>>98819284>>It's all because of custardsI have three 40k custards players ask me about 30k and get sad when i tell the custodes aren't that good and more of a support faction because the game isn't designed for them
>>98819307>No fixing of automated weaponsTarantulas are fine? >no points adjustmentsGood. The less of that the better. >no making dreadnoughts powerful againTheyre already entirely fine, they dont dominate like they used to but theyre still a flexible choice that can put in work. >No fix to the state of SoSThe glup shitto "allies for custodes" faction is exactly how it should be. >no nerf to pts costs of mechanicus and SA ?What would you even need to nerf there?
>>98819307>mechanicusTourist
>>98819187fun Solar Axialla kitbash there
>>98819402I love how we keep getting dipshit retards who claim that full-on Chaos doesn't fit the setting when it IS the literal setting
>>98819187Pen tests of 1 always fail is some no child left behind 40k bullshit.
>>98819423It's the same people who get their panties in a twist when "40k" things appear in 30k, even though canonically they existed during that time. Bottom line, don't associate with niggerfaggots.
>>98819423Blame FW and the Black Books. They didn't want people to use WHFB/40k daemons, so they downplayed their importance or made up their own dollar store Ruinstorm version.Meanwhile, the BL source material has always been explicit about their nature even if the protagonists themselves had no idea.
>>98819482The same FW and Black Books that told you to use Codex: Chaos Daemons for most of 1.0?
>>98811847>>98811923It is I, the ghost of FAQ future, this just got changed today. Deep strike is now full move.
>>98819491Yea, clearly a GW designer was lurking in here (or possibly they read my several emails on this topic when I first learned about it, I choose to believe the latter to pad my self importance).
>>98819402It's literally just headswaps and not great ones at that
>>98819402That's a nice terrain, sauce?
>>98819514Seems like some arms swaps as well
>>98819322nta but nucata
>>98817262>reconsSneaky, observation, antennas, gear pouches>seekersfrontal assault, seek and destroy, close quarter optics, ammo pouches, trophies
>>98819307>So after so many months no change to bad legion traitsDA player ?
>>98819307>no change to bad legion traitsWB are the only bad legion trait
>>98819552Yes. I want my six wings of Hexagramaton back. >>98819609No.
Theoretically, if I removed the massive pauldrons on my Saturnine Terminators and Dreadnought, would it be fucking sweet to mount some more guns on their shoulders?
>>98819716Yes. The DA trait is fine no matter how much you cry about it. >I want my six wings of Hexagramaton back.You have them, theyre the detachments.
I'm going to start iron warriors since metal is all i can paint
>>98819809Aren't you forgetting something important?
>>98819769Whole idea I have for making exo-suits for my SA. Remove the pads, swap the head and mount some servo-arms on those little brackets that looks like mounting points for stuff. Turn the axe and hammer into tools for some industrial grade space ship maintenance.
>>98819814Nyo, they won't look good, but i will paint them
>>98819290>I’m morbidly curious as to how the new termies actually feel to assembleBodies aren't bad, not too great a connection between the waist and torso. The pteruges are on the weapon frame, and are something of a clusterfuck. They're split in halves and different designs are made for different raised/lowered arm states. A considerable amount of real estate on the sprues is spent on alternate sets of faulds and pauldrons with more or less trim, so you basically have double.>>98819769The amount of detail obscured underneath the Saturnine models make me think if they have plans to replace the fuckhuge pauldrons, on top of the fact that they're on the same sprue as the weapons.
>>98819769
>>98819350Honestly with the adjorum and vanguard changes they are probably in a pretty good spot as a standalone army now
>>98819187Did they unfuck reaping blow for bulky models?
>>98820008I think so, but the low model count is going to hurt
>>98820017Yes, RB now only cares about the physical models in the target squad vs yours, no more bulky tax
>>98820017>>98820022Huh. I may actually give a shit about Deathshroud now.
>>98819814Okay but the joke is obvious isnt it? Youre putting hazard stripes on a weapon (either literally a weapon or "a weapon" since astartes are basically bioweapons).Its like writing "watch out" on a tank, its funny.
>>98820003I love your broadside battlesuit.
>>98820051It is and that's the ultimate bitterpill.
>>98819957The rhino has a fully modelled interior, but that doesent mean they plan to release a topless variant.
>>98820051I thought it was a grim "we are disposable equipment" kinda thing
>>98820091Maybe? But I thought it was like writing "heavy load" on your belt buckle or whatever. A sort of "haha watch out im gonna get you" thing
So nobody is ever playing against custodes ever again right? Even the libtards should join in on shunning then now that they shove you in your deployment zone all game and now you can't even stop them scoring off you
>>98820102Just don't hold objectives
>>98820177Meant for >>98820149
>>98819187>Does a Model with the Orbital Assault Vehicle Special Rule count towards the maximum number of Units that can deploy by Deep Strike each Turn?>YesI know thats how it works but deep strike this edition is still stupid
>>98819187NOOOOO THEY FUCKED MY MALEFIC TARANTULAS
>>98819196Correct, I can kinda excuse saturnine terminators but the saturnine dread looks like fucking dog shit. >>98819187>>98819284Fucking took them 3 tries to get vanguard to work like it should, better late then never i guess>>98819478DESU, its kinda a wash because glances are so fucking rare in this game. I think, and im being completely honest here, since 3.0 has launched and the dozens and dozens of games i have played, i think i have dealt with a glance less then 10 times.
>>98820149Just list tailor. Bring meltas, laser rapiers and seekers. Spartans also put in work.
>>98820149Custodes, like other skew armies such as knights, should be allies only.
Verdict on 3.0?
>>98820237I like it.
>>98820237My honest opinion:It's fine except for the scoring special rules which are colossal fuck ups that ruined the game. Melta weapons struggling to pen vehicles is also dumb.Not the worst version of a warhammer game ever by a long shot, but they needed more serious play testing if they weren't going to bother with post launch changes.
>>98820244Better than 2, worse than 1. It just has so much clunk:>AI Summary rules, some are even wrong>Medic! reaction is a nightmare>Took this long to fix Vanguard>Deep Strike is a awful>Flyers are feast or famine>Plasma and melta, generally, are is awful spots>Vehicle tableIronically if they renamed Glances to "system damage" I would feel better.>Melee weapon points costs are fucked>Knights suck in melee>Rhino rush or loseAnd more I am sure.
>>98819485Why would you expect these 40k refugees to know what they are talking about?
>>98820354Whoops meant for>>98820237
>>98819187>>98819284>>98820200Vanguard changed for the better, but is it enough?Now you can still score if the unit repositioned away from the Objective. But your Vanguard unit still has to beat them in melee - how are you going to do that if they also reposition away from your reach?I guess them leaving the objective uncontested for your taking will have to be its own reward
>>98819106>You'd think that HH would be the game where we have MORE options, not LESS.YOU WOULD THINK SO. I was told that much had been forgotten, never to be regained?!
>>98819770>The DA trait is fine no matter how much you cry about it.Nta but that statement is plainly wrong. I like having a laugh at the expense of any DA player, but their legion rule managed to be both useless and tasteless. And not even their 6 detachements make up for it. They do have the Lion and companions but that's it.
>>98820514Fuck off, 40kfag
>>98820452>But your Vanguard unit still has to beat them in meleeNo, you can still shoot them off to a man and score. IMO They over complicated vanguard, vanguard could literally just be written as If you force a unit to lose control of an objective either by status, wiping teh unit out, removing enough models so that they are no longer on the objective or cause them to react move off of the objective, that unit socres vanguard.
>>98818432each C is 3 short walls, each D is 1 long wall, each F is two pillarsI also had a set of the necromunda dark uprising boxesthis was enough to healthily populate a 4x4
>>98819402WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT. Where is his face?!It is so very good that chaos stuff is monstrous like that, though I do wonder if it's even possible to depict chaos allegiance without also having to depict a monster.I'd like to subvert the trope. To have some guy be evil without also being ugly. I guess I could just add horns and flames to them?
>>98819187Who on Earth was asking this?
>>98820518As a DA player, i can confrim, im fine with being the punching bag especially after the shit show we were in 2.0, but yeah our legion trait blows. I think in all of 3.0 i have used it like....once? maybe twice? Its just completely moot when most things that it would impact are usually prime tacticals or troops that are getting their LD bumped up to like 8 anyway, so there is few things that will drop me to a -3 that would even impact or cause the trait to activate. Personally i think DA should have gotten as a legion trait a list of prime benefits that were their wing buffs
>>98819478It should be a Glance at the very least. Maybe it would up the number of glances this guy scores idk >>98820200
>>98820619Welcome to the modern state of table top gaming bro lol.
>>98820452The big problem with vanguard is that they don't score the value of an objective so there's really no chance of them ever scoring as much as any line unit while on the board, but a line unit will easily score a shitload of VP very quickly.
>>98820632So we house ruled to solve this problem.We made it so that you can only score the line bonus once per game per unit. So your tactical unit with line 2 will only ever get the line 2 bonus once. Makes it so you dont just fucking park on an objective with a line 2 unit and sit there all fucking game.
>>98820054Plz no bully
>>98820595This is better than that because you can just kill a unit that was in 3" of the objective even if it wasn't contesting it (i.e. a unit locked in combat with one of your units on the objective.)
>>98820619>>98820630Well, there was someone ITT not too long ago who was insistent he could take the WE Hereticus aux detachment with the WE Astartes RoW
>>98820646>>98820646>This is better than that because you can just kill a unit that was in 3" of the objective even if it wasn't contesting itBefore this you needed to completely destory the unit, or status them, if you shoot models off the objective but did not wipe the unit, it did not score vanguard, did they cahnge that part? >>98820655I would need a bit more context to that, because you vcan take Aux as an allied detatchment and they can take the WE aux trait which i forgot what it gives them.
>>9882061940kfugees.
>>98820595I think its weird its based on distance and not if the are controlling it
>>98820670I really think vanguard just needs to be something as simple as "If a vanguard unit forces an enemy unit that was controling an objetive in their previous turn to no longer control the objective by the end of the active players turn, that unit scores vanguard points" It would need a bit more detail but end of the day >Did the enemy unit that controled the objetive no longer control the objective do to somthing a vanguard unit did?>Yes?>You score vanguard.
>>98820665Yes, it only cares if they were within 3" of the objectice at the start of turn, running or removing models afterwards doesn't save you anymore
>>98820595>If you force a unit to lose control of an objective either by status, wiping the unit out, removing enough models so that they are no longer on the objective or cause them to react move off the objective, that unit scores vanguardThis. What if your unit also stole control of an enemy unit? As in, more people next to the objective than theirs.
Vanguard now says>may only ever score 1 Victory Point for Controlling an Objective, regardless of that Objective’s value OR ANY OTHER BONUSES.’Doesn't that make Comptroller no longer work for Myrmidons? So, the sole scoring for Mech becomes:1. Castellax2. Thralls (useless)3. Slow Thallax and VoraxEverything else is Vanguard or Support. Not Cybernetica? Sucks to be you lmao
>>98819497>>98819491I don't mind that. Bro just parachuted onto the field, I say it counts as moving more than 4 inches lmao
>>98820792Mech never win anyway.
>>98819769>Bro actually fills the Saturnine suit
>>98820237It's aiteGot some problems but not nearly as nightmarish as anything in 2.0 or the worst bits of 1.0
>>98820022>RB now only cares about the physical models in the target squad vs yours, no more bulky taxWait, all of this counts as a single sentence? Wew. Glad about the change, though.
>>98820830Yes, EM dashes are effectively just more pronounced commas
>>98820354>Ironically if they renamed Glances to "system damage" I would feel better.Same, for probably different reasons
Man, now I wish DG had a vet assault equivalent that could go all power scythes.
>>98820626Word, brother, word.
>>98820878as someone who has recently played against word bearers, the legion rule came up a lot
>>98820882I'm saying 3.0 DA now know what 2.0 WB were going through with their weaksauce trait of back then. +1 to Combat Res > +1 to Combat Res but only when you tie.As for Ld not being modified, it would be nice if it never dropped to less than 7 instead of 6. Reduced to basic battle brother level...but never less.
>>98820896the second part rarely matters because WB players are addicted to taking malefic unitsit's also very annoying to kill more than a couple of gal vorbak unless you're tailoring against them also yes, WB have historically had terrible legion traits but were often brought back up in regards to how good their special units were (why did mara ghal use to blind people with their bolters?)
>>98820188Now drop pods have to arrive empty or something? Dont tell me people were deepstriking assault vets and also several drop pods?
>>98820919>why did mara ghal use to blind people with their boltersI don't think they did?
>>98820792Fr what's Comptroller good for anyways?>It's so a Techpriest can attach to a unit that already has Line and score extra, as Line and Comptroller stack.>Because Mech isn't a real faction - they're just allies that live in background fluff. Like what Custodes should have remained.Fuck.
>>98820931they did
>>98820896What was WB trait in 2.0 again ? The +1 5o combat res was their legion trait or was it part of Lorgar's sire rule ? all I remember about them was Lorgar being an unexpected powerhouse.
>>98820792I never assumed the comptroller worked for Vanguard units. But well, it works for Scyllax and Echidnax. And I don't think Thralls are useless if used right.The lack of a faster Techpriest option to support Thallax or Vorax sucks, though.>>98820986>Fr what's Comptroller good for anyways?Mechanicum hasn't any Line troops, so it's their only way to get bonus points.
>>98820922no idiot go back and read the rules on Reserves and Embarked Unitsffs>>98820665not taking Solar Auxilia, he means taking the Hereticus Sons of Bodt Auxiliary Detachment with the Astartes RoW>>98820595no, that oversimplifies the Vanguard scoring conditions, so you get Knights with guns that can obviously vaporize that one dude that's within 3" scoring Vanguard every time just for killing one militia trooper these are supposed to be your elite assault units, if they can't squad wipe the enemy off the objective they don't deserve VP
Does this mean WBs allied with Kor Phaeron wouldn't be red but instead gray?
>>98819187>no change to alexis pollux rulelet me attach him into veteran breachers or phalanx warder GW
>>98821154>The lack of a faster Techpriest option to support Thallax or Vorax sucks, though.I'm trying to fill out a 1.5k list with the S6 Ursarax as the main core and that really puts me off from adding any characters since they can't keep up with the units they would be supporting. Granted it took me 8 years to finish and paint my first army so we will probably be in 6th ed by the time I get them on the table.
Does anyone have a good copy of the liber Custodes ?
The best part of the FAQ is that I no longer need to be guilty about fielding my 20 seekers from 1.0
>>98821210Not really. There's plenty of red WB linked to Kor Phaeron during Calth (like during the Macragge's honour vs Infidious imperator battle)You should ignore the GW post Black Books lore, besides outliers like the Siege of Cthonia, is universally bad and badly though out. Just lame excuses after lame excuses to justify absurd paint schemes and factions being present where they shouldn't be.
>>98821295Gotcha thanks
>>98821295>You should ignore the GW post Black Books lore,Kor phaeron has been grey since book 5, and you're trying to use boys lovers art to disprove it
>>98821395>The Black Books also had retarded retcons and nonsense loreyes, what else is new?
>>98821048>>98820878
>>98821221I don't recall what he does
Why doesnt HH have its own dedicated list building site
>>98821411
>>98821469What is newrecruit for 500
>>98821295god that art is disgusting
>>98821496The ui is ugly
>>98821452he let you deep strike with a squad of breachers
>>98821578>Guys why does no one make a army builder for HH?>Gets told about an army builder for HH>Ew no not that one. Anon i dont know what to fucking tell you, you asked and you recivedIts not my fault GW decided to use this retarded detachment system which makes list building apps annoying to build for.
>swear off of horde armies after painting guard, nids and mechanicum armies>realize midway through priming 50 horrors that I got tricked into it againwell at least the color scheme is much simpler than my nids
>>98821469You can try warhost dot net but I hated it when I tried it. It's supposed to be able to let you just plug in the units you want to run and it will automatically figure out which detachments to use to make it work.
>>98821584Maybe he should Deepstrike with a squad with the Shield trait. That way it would also include squads like Praetorian command squads with boarding shields, or Termies with shields, etc.Would this be too much or be out of character, though?
>>98821478what goalposts? The point is that Kor Phaeron WB being grey is not cannon, period>>98821498Neil Roberts wasn't the best at drawing consistent power armour patterns, but his art is iconic and thematic as fuck.
I am having a major edition bleed moment. Does the Death Guard trait apply to vehicles? Do vehicles even care about moving when they fire?
>>98822193Bro, read the fucking Liber..>inb4 "you can answer it faster!"If you can't pee without someone else holding your dick then that's your problem..
>>98820354>>Medic! reaction is a nightmareIt really isnt. >>Plasma and melta, generally, are is awful spotsMathematically wrong. >>Melee weapon points costs are fuckedTrue, although the balance for melee weapons is STILL better than its ever been,>>Knights suck in meleeOh no the army of big durable tanks with massive shooting has a thing its bad at!
>>98822321>True, although the balance for melee weapons is STILL better than its ever been,why take a power sword when claws exist and are better and the same price
>>98820626>but yeah our legion trait blowsIts literally a flat out superior version to the 2e WB trait (which was very good), and you get better detachments on top of it. >Its just completely moot when most things that it would impact are usually prime tacticals or troops that are getting their LD bumped up to like 8 anyway, so there is few things that will drop me to a -3 that would even impact or cause the trait to activate.Losing combat? >>98820518Objectively wrong. Its a tasteful implementation of both their overall legion character as these stubborn, hardened, warriors and the specialization of the wings in regard to their mastery of all the different forms of war.
>>98822335You never took a power sword over lightning claws previously either.
>>98822346>This is wrong!>Yeah but it's always been wrongOh gee buddy I guess that suddenly makes it right then. Why bother huh
>>98822321Theres easier ways to say you dont play games. Especially with the Medic reaction comment. Plasma and melta arent all bad, there are standout good choices, but its a spectrum when it shouldnt be. Melee weapon balance is the worst its ever been, just look at thunder hammers vs fists, let alone other weapons like charnabel. Knights could stand to have less effective shooting for better melee, they shouldnt be a "shooting faction" when the castellan doesnt even exist. Thats just an example of poor balancing, likely due to rushing the edition out.
>>988223351) They didn't use to be the same price2) Swords did +1A compared to one claw, because claws were specialistThat's why.
>>98822410>Plasma and melta arent all bad, there are standout good choices, but its a spectrum when it shouldnt beNta, I'm slowly changing my mind about them.In my view, plasma DOES suck...but back then it didn't, and regular bolters felt pointless where good plasma was available right there.Now the gulf that separates basic from special isn't that wide. Idk feels like bolters are relatively the best they've been. If the price for that is lame plasma, maybe it is so?
>>98822410>they shouldnt be a "shooting faction"This, I don't want space Tau with light sabers. No one likes tough shooty factions. If they had better melee they could be way more fun for all parties.
>>98822410>look at thunder hammers vs fists, let alone other weapons like charnabelCHARNABAL MY BELOVED. Why can't it be breaching 5 like it used to be? They wanted a weapon in between chainswords and power swords, and they found it, Throne damn them they did.Charnabals would be actually good for non-prime sergeant-class duels if they could engage in challenges. Alas, the lowest meta prime master sarge is usually a WS6 Chosen vet.
>>98822410>Especially with the Medic reaction commentIts a situationally powerful reaction which is very simple to use once you understand it. >>98822410>Plasma and melta arent all bad, there are standout good choices, but its a spectrum when it shouldnt be.The overwhelming majority of plasma and melta weapons are mathematically viable. Whether its the basic guns like the plasma and meltagun or the big hitters like magna meltas and executioner destroyers or whatever. Its more accurate to say "there are some that arent very good" (the plasma blaster). The weapon classes are fine and have roles they do well. You just dont like what those roles are (plasma does consistent damage at medium range, melta is for destroyer vulnerable vehicle targets and heavy infantry/walkers rather than killing Av14). >>98822410>just look at thunder hammers vs fistsYou mean an instance where they managed to give each weapon an actual niche rather than "fists are just half as good"? Thunder hammers are better for dueling other fist/hammer users, fists are better for everything else. S7 is not actually very good vs walkers and vehicles for example. >Knights could stand to have less effective shooting for better meleeCould, but thats just taste. >they shouldnt be a "shooting faction" when the castellan doesnt even exist.Theyre giant walkers packing the biggest guns in the imperium, why shouldnt they be a shooting faction? Knights being big and scary threats that nontheless are vulnerable to being mobbed when up close is also just a good way of balancing what is otherwise an inherently unfun and oppressive faction. >>98822432Plasma guns are mathematically better than they were in 2e.
>>98822410>look at thunder hammers vs fistsI am completely fine once I swap their profiles. Say Fists are S7 i-2 and Hammers are S8 i-3 and there you have it: fists are slow but not cripplingly so while hammers become specialist weapons for smacking things too big for S7 to solve it.
>>98822476>Plasma guns are mathematically better than they were in 2e.When people say plasma was good, they mean AP2, anon, not 2E.
>>98822446Yea, its much more fun to have a big statcheck army that asks "how many laser destroyers did you bring today" and if the answer is less than 15 you just lose before the game begins. Knights being good at shooting and worse at melee gives basic marine troops a way to engage them (grenades) while also making positioning more important for them. Making them melee powerhouses (at the cost of gutting their shooting, because you would need to gut their shooting) removes all of that, they no longer care about getting lines of fire or whatever, they just charge at the enemy and hope theres not enough guns to kill them. And everything without a big gun on the enemy side of the field may as well go home.
>>98822476>Its a situationally powerful reaction which is very simple to use once you understand itNta...explain plz? Without the reaction, I think all Apothecaries do is help with statuses? Or maybe that was the narthecium's doing...
>>98822486So when plasma was fundamentally incompatible with the game, gotcha. Ap2 plasma works in 40k, it does not work in 30k. A specialized "marine killer" gun works when marines are like 4 factions out of 20, not when marines are 9 factions out of 10.
>>98822476>You mean an instance where they managed to give each weapon an actual niche rather than "fists are just half as good"? Thunder hammers are better for dueling other fist/hammer users, fists are better for everything else. S7 is not actually very good vs walkers and vehicles for example.so hammers have a niche within a niche and power fists are just almost always better and cheaper?wow
>>98822492>Without the reaction, I think all Apothecaries do is help with statuses?Yes, without the reaction they just help remove statuses. You buy them for the reaction, incidentally the reaction is one of the few defensive tools infantry have. 50% damage reduction (or there abouts) on infantry is nothing to sneeze at. >>98822497Theyre the same cost for every unit I know of with the exception of atramentar flay clade. You also severely undersell the relevance of being good against "other fist and hammer users" when that represents a good 50% of legion melee elites. Both weapons have their niche, both have times they will feel worse and you want the alternative.
>>98822493>plasma was fundamentally incompatible with the game
>>98822493I can 100% believe that, in the entirety of 1.0, you took 0 cover rolls. None whatsoever. You strike me as that kind of guy.Which is a pity, considering there was do much 4+ cover and lots of 5+ in 1.0
>>98822489What a terrible take. Knights being good at melee doesnt make them immune to it. You dont need to table a knight army to win, you never have. You can outscore and take out only key pieces. What we have is the worst of the worlds; shooty tough units that try to table you. Hammer termis should threaten a knight, but a tac squad blanking half their attacks just makes the knight player skew shooting more. >>98822476>why shouldnt they be a shooting faction?Because their knightly lore is FVLL TILT. They are, literally knights in shining armor level nobility and have the pride to show it. These arent titans, theyre arrogant nobles who beielve melee duels are the most honorable thing they can do. Again, this faction should not be space Tau.
>>98822512if you take hammers as opposed to fists, you're gimping yourself in every scenario when you fight something tougher than a marinethe hammer is useful in one case, against the sergeant who has a fistthis does not scream parity
>>98821942that is what i would want, at least with power armor stuff.>Would this be too much or be out of character, though?it might be too much with Termies and probably las cutters vet breachers, but i guess people can do it with warmongers.
>>98822611>you're gimping yourself in every scenario when you fight something tougher than a marineThat's like 5 units in the entire game lmao: Contemptors, Leviathans, Saturdreads, Thanatars. Castellax can be killed by S7 hammers quite fine.What I'm against is hammers being weaker than fists. It should ge the other way around.
>>98822626>i guess people can do it with warmongers.Termies should get access to Deepstrike by their own means. It is a great disgrace that Saturnine Centurions can only Deepstrike when attached to a Saturnine Praetor TM.Warmongers should still allow deepstrikes, but also disordered charges. You know, to spice thing up. They impatient like that.
>>98822642conveniently forgetting half the daemons, ogryns, literally every vehicle and more
>>98822677>vehicles Anon it's either AV10 or AV14, one doesn't care about the differences between power fist and hammer because it's too weak, the other because it's too strong. Too many vehicles have been grandfathered in to completely ignoring half the AV game because the land raider (one of the weakest vehicles in 40k for a time) got it
>>98822677>daemonsWho? There aren't as many daemons of maelstrom players as you think. Only now will they be an actual faction, as the Tzeentch and Slaanesh codices are being released righ-Wait, not codices? Journals? Well they better have a whole list in th- Six units? That's it?>ogrynsWhy would they be a problem for S7. Aren't they T5?>vehicleHammers are not antitank, anon! Not even fists, for that matter. That's what chainfists are for (ALLEGEDLY). I'd trust actual antitank.
>>98822751Slaanesh and Tzeentch are DLC to the main Ruinstorm list, not the other way around. Daemon brutes fuck, especially with an HQ who can give them shrouded as a reaction.
>>98822747did you know that armour penning AV10 is easier with S8?>>98822751>There aren't as many daemons of maelstrom players as you thinkbro you're literally talking to one
>>98822781>You aren't so numerous>>What do you mean I don't exist?Mfw
>>98822792hammers are only useful against like a handful of models (sergeants+ with fists)fists are only useful against 20+ separate unit profilesare you denying this?
>>98822883Theyre getting ratio'd by half the thread, at this point they must be trolling.
>>98822792Post models and games, fag
>>98818475>Something like Dropsite or Istvaan might have been more descriptively in line with how 40k does itNo no, I understand and am fine with the "Saturnine" theming I just didn't understand why it only has a couple Saturnine mins instead of being based around a Saturnine Heavy Vanguard Spearhead Cadre that would be mostly Saturnines until I double checked the Saturnine splat and realised HH doesn't have one.Why didn't they make a detachment based around the idea of a full Saturnine force with multiple squads of the termies as troops? A custardes style low model count elite army. I thought it existed because Ligma got that.Also I might be biased but I always want every two army starter set to be like the 4th Edition 40k Battle of Meecrob box. I want unique terrain pieces, narrative objective markers, unique minis of thematic hangers on/non combat personnel like the Aquilla pilot etc. >>98818572Could you just use tiles and doors from Space Hulk?
>>98822340>Objectively wrong. Its a tasteful implementation of both their overall legion character as these stubborn, hardened, warriors and the specialization of the wings in regard to their mastery of all the different forms of war.I mean if you're so convinced you're in the right, please pat yourself on the back and explain to me what's so good about it as I've failed to see it when facing them. They usually fail "ld" as often as anyone else since most pinning checks use cool instead of Ld. You could argue it can come into play when getting slaughtered in mele, but if that's the case, you'd want your unit to retreat anyway. As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing tastefull nor any redeeming qualities in regards to the 3.0 DA legion rule.You could argue 2.0 WB were worse and i'd say maybe but DA don't have the +1WS, Str and Mvt bonus through RoW (which let's face it: was the real WB legion trait).Out of curiosity: did you ever face DA on the tabletop ? If so: when did their legion trait came into play and actually helped the DA player ?
>>98822942>Why didn't they make a detachment based around the idea of a full Saturnine force with multiple squads of the termies as troops?There is one, it just came 6 months later as DLC
>>98822973The DA trait might be more useable if it didn't let their LD go lower than 7. But idk how much of an overlap would that be with IW
Have any anons ever played HH in concert with Battlefleet Gothic? The boarding action crossover with 3rd[?] Edition 40k was almost a proto-Zone Mortalis and I can see them working great together. Although if you were being fully autistic you'd have to pause the BFzg game to resolve the boarding action since like the RT RPG 1 turn of BFG is practically the length of an entire ZM game in-universe.I assume someone at some point somewhere has made a heresy appropriate fleet army list?
>>98822191Is that a pair of knight titans fighting, or are they supposed to be one of the bigger models? Because if so, his scaling is completely off like a motherfucker....
>>98824217they're styled off of the older armorcast titansthe art was made before the original plastic knight releases
>>98822191I really like Neil Roberts' marines. Especially the elbows. Really makes them look like knights. And he often paints byzantine medieval stuff on them. Full Bayeux mode.I don't mind that style being like 1000 years after Rome's legionaries if it looks cool. Like that ai video of knights fighting WW2.
>>98822476>mathematically viableHey anons. Have you heard a distant sound? Like a sort of explosion? This was me when a vast amount of liquid faeces abruptly evacuated my bowels. This is the reaction I got when I read this on 30k general
>>98824406Damn that must be some painful diarrhea for it to be continuing for over a decade, when people in this thread called half the units DOA because they weren't mathematically viable
>>98822942>Could you just use tiles and doors from Space Hulk?Space Hulk tiles from the board game are hallways + rooms similar to a dungeon than a maze likes ZM. The Boarding Action terrain sets are Space Hulk terrains, which has thinner walls and columns than ZM, arguably the best terrain ever made by GW, also way cheaper to build than ZM.
Which is the better loadout for the Phraetus Annointed? Been thinking the disintigrator with fist
>>98824766Are they in NuRecruit? Best load out depends on what you want them to do, probably. But anointed seen like they are for melee, so probably gun + fist, + flamer if you can afford it
>>98824766>>98824782Sorry meant to ask if they were in New Recruit for Rewards of Treachery
>>98824789>>98824782I'm sure they are... They have a fist plus axe loadout but that'd need like 4 praetors just to get the axes. IK IK, recasts, but that's still 4 extra saturnine praetors I don't need
>>98824796Go on Alex mate
>>98822973>>98822973>and explain to me what's so good about it as I've failed to see it when facing them.Thematically or mechanically? Mechanically its the morale equivalent of the salamanders trait, they always pass LD on a 6 or less, rather than whatever score you may try and push on them. Its not flashy/proactively gamewinning - it is "lose less", but its very useful for reliability and reliability is one of the strongest things in the game. It means that no matter what, you have a 42% chance of not giving up vanguard, of not running away (you can still choose to disengage, but you dont rout). They can absorb the first combat advantages of other legions/units fairly effectively. You also have to remember that (afaik) the winner cant disengage, the combat continuing or breaking is one way or the other down to the loser. Thematically? It represents their ability to fight through adversity, its a balanced version of universal stubborn. >You could argue 2.0 WB were worseThe 2e WB trait was really good (for the same reasons explained above, although being ran down was a bigger deal back then). So yes, the current DA trait is a better version of what WB had, but thats not a bad thing as much as "they have an already good trait and then extras". Which they do, the other half of the DA trait is their detachments, giving them easy access to the best units in the game for whatever job you want with less of a tax or restriction than other armies. >If so: when did their legion trait came into play and actually helped the DA player ?In close combat (as it should), where it helped his regular terminators stay in the fight after I won combat and killed his character, allowing them to try and grind me out. I had charged in with a more elite squad WS wise and had hoped to quickly send them packing with a nice big challenge + status effect combo, but the DA trait kicked in. It also helped his dudes against phosphex and whatnot, but thats a pretty niche benefit.
>>98824406Shitting yourself because someone explained your whining about a weapon being bad is objectively wrong is a bold choice.
>>98824969>This shitting is ours. We choose it. We deny you an unclogged toilet
>>98824966Fair points, and I think we agree more than it seems, but I’ll stand by my take.The “Lose less” part is actually my point. You say yourself it’s not flashy or game-winning. It’s a safety net, not a trait that defines the army. I also want to highlight that the 42% cuts both ways. It only matters once your Ld is already below 6, and even then you fail 58% of the time. With these kind of odds, that’s not reliability we're talking about.Your example shows it too. It came up once, after his character was dead and the combat already lost. One good roll in a losing position helped by the trait. You compared the trait to salamanders, but how many times does the Salies traits kicks in and saves you a wound/body during a single game ?Thematically, it’s bland. Fighting through adversity is what every legion does, and others embody it far better (IW comes to mind both in lore and on the tabbletop). What makes the First Legion unique is the Hexagrammaton, the forbidden weapons, the secrecy and them being monster hunters/killers during the GC. The detachment side captures the hexagrammaton part, but the actual trait missed the mark at making the dark angels play like dark angels.Anyway, I think we’ve covered it from every angle. Thanks for your input and your take on the subject anon.
>>98825121>but how many times does the Salies traits kicks in and saves you a wound/body during a single game ?More often, but its still lose less. You dont WANT it to trigger since it means being hit with a weapon that hurts a lot anyways. Salamanders do have the stronger trait of course, its very strong, but in terms of fundamentals its the same. And fair enough, thanks for the remarkably civil conversation.
>>98819402Where are those heads from?
>>98825178The tongue one? I think that might actually be from the bloodletter kit. (the head comes in two parts, the main head + tongue and the face, that looks like the tongue + starter head part with the giant back bit chopped off/rescupted and no faceplate added.
This is dumb.
>>98824966>a balanced version of universal stubborn.It'd be nice if it was down to the base marine's Ld7, but I suppose it's Ld6 to account for the possibility of having an outsider attached to the squad. And thus the entire legion suffers for that remote possibility?Traits about resilience are fine. They can keep you from losing. This trait assumes you are already losing, and tries to lessen the blow. "Tries" being the keyword here - the higher the Ld, the more blow it leaves undiminished.
>>98825226>It'd be nice if it was down to the base marine's Ld7That would be too much. Stubborn was an absolutely oppressive rule which translated to "unbreakable" in most cases. Ld6 leaves a noticeable "oh, theyre on the back foot" while still being an entirely doable check. >the higher the Ld, the more blow it leaves undiminished.Which is fine. It provides a cushion, but it means there is some point to trying to make elite units test LD.
>>98825237>Stubborn was an absolutely oppressive rule which translated to "unbreakable"Stubborn was oppressive because it was found on many Ld8 and Ld9 units.Ld7 is almost a coin toss
>>98825220it's fine, you can still find a Prime for Logistical in another detachmentall it means is you're not wanging down a Siege Gauntlet with Fafnir Rann in it without jumping through the appropriate extra steps you soup-loving fuck
>>98824969Show us the math. You've posted your hypothesis, back up your work.
>>98822335claws aren't always availableclaws don't always proc useful Gambits like Sword of the Order or Flurry of Blowsa claw on a dude with a heavy bolter looks kind of shit
>>98825612>Fafnir RannYou can't LB a High Command slot, that restriction is already baked into LB.This errata update clarifies that if a detachment has certain Force organization slots restricted to specific unit types, then using LB to add another of that type of force org slot also carries those same unit selection restrictions.So for example: You take a recon demi company (one prime recon slot with recon slots being limited to recon squads). You fill the prime slot with a recon squad, then take the LB prime advantage to add another recon slot. That new LB recon slot you've just added cannot be used to take a Land Raider Explorator or a Sabre tank (even though those units normally go into the recon force org slot). Your LB recon slot can only be used to take another recon squad (as per the recon demi company's detachment restrictions). However if you LB'd a War Engine slot you could take a Saturnine Dreadnought in your recon demi company and that's just just fucking fine.That's fucking stupid.>Soup-loving fuckThis doesn't prevent soup. It just places random weird restrictions on LB units. You can't LB a techmarine on top of your Apothecarion detachment, but a land raider is fine etc.
>>98825719GW doesn't play it's own games. You think they're playing 30k? I'm convinced they used more than text assisted AI in the rule book and the backlash made them shelve it and they don't have a firm grasp on 30k as a whole.
>Can't use LB to add a scout squad to a recon company>A saturnine dreadnought is fine though
>>98823484>I assume someone at some point somewhere has made a heresy appropriate fleet army list?there is like 2 or 3 horus heresy fan supplements for BFG
>>98825719>However if you LB'd a War Engine slot you could take a Saturnine Dreadnought in your recon demi company and that's just just fucking fine.is that how it works? i read the errata as "you can only use your logistical benefit with just another apothecary", i think it kinds of make sense with the few detachments were all the slots are limited to one specific unit, but it is weird in the mixed ones.
>local retard who complained about vanguard being too strong is having a meltdown >He also said aircraft and deep strike were too strong and the nerf is deserved Why do I even fucking bother playing locally anymore
>>98825891RIP, that's unfortunate.
>>98825764They don't have time to play test the game because the whole team is already working on 4th edition for 2028The FAQ is the work of an unpaid intern who did it outside of work hoursThe journals are minimal effort to sell whatever new model is coming out that month (or whatever they have a surplus of; see kill team extraction squad)
>>98825878Yes, read >>98825220 again. It's poorly written as it's using the terms "force organization slot" and "battlefield role" interchangeably, but it means any detachment with unit restrictions also applies those same restrictions to any LB slots added to that detachment. So you can't use LB to add a techmarine to an apothecarion detachment, but you can use it to add a land raider or a fire raptor gunship.
>>98825891>Vangaurd was OPBro even after the fucking buff its still underpowered compaired to line>Aircraft and DS are OPNigga what? Aircraft are fucking dog doodoo, shit we house ruled it so that you dont have to roll every turn, you just roll if you are trying to bring them on and even then, having like 700 points tied up in a aircraft and a unit in said aircraft that could just not come on all game is fucking crazy. Bro your local scene sucks cock, does he play custodes?
>>98825953MechanicumHe also defends every single decision GW makes because "he's a game Dev so he knows"Lack of flavor? Well you can't expect them to give every legion the faction treatment Removal of every option from the rulebook? Good, the game was bloated Options are put back with legacies? Pfff I told you guys not to worryJagathai Khan's special ability is to take a ton of land raiders? Well in the lore he was an explorer so it makes sense White scars can't build around bikes and expect to be competitive? Well white scars had infantry too so it's not a big deal Unit X sucks? Well, actually, in Y situation that never happens they could do slightly better than another cheaper unit
Has anyone got the most recent Journal Tactica? FAQ dropped and I want to compare and contrast what was originally published with what needed to be explained.
>>98825953>Aircraft are fucking dog doodoo, shit we house ruled it so that you dont have to roll every turn, you just roll if you are trying to bring them onTell me more>>98826003Sounds like they frequent this board. Typical "I'll agree with a successful brand because they are perceived as such, therefore defending them I seem smart as I'm already on the winning side." There must be a term for this.
>>98825182Yes, the tongue and eye ones.>bloodlettersI knew I recognized that tongue from somewhere. I should still have some unbuilt ones.
>>98826074>Tell me moreNot really much more to tell.RAW state that you HAVE to roll every turn, to see if your flyer comes on, then you decide if you do or do not want to bring it on, and even if you decided NOT to bring it on, the roll increases by 1 next time.We said fuck that, you just roll if you want to try and bring it on the board, on a 3+ its on, then it increases after each sucessful roll as normal.
>>98825642Plasma gun into MEQ 3e:2*2/3*1/3+2*2/3*1/2*1/3 = 0.67 woundsPlasma gun into MEQ 2e: 1*2/3*1/2+1*2/3*1/3*1/3 = 0.41It turns out having twice the shots is just good (going from rapid fire 24 to just 2 shots), even if you breach on a worse value. Or do you mean the gravis plasma cannon, which traded breaching 4+ for breaching 5+, but now does 2 damage (whereas before it was only S7)?
>>98826624In a vacum it looks good, but the reality is, the only plasma worth taking, is gravis plasma becuase its large blast breaching 5+ 2 damage. Since launch i have not seen a single fucking person run a squad of plasma, even dark angels who get a hard on for plasma, dont even bother running plasma repeaters even because Plamsa is not worth taking anymore. The argument of "Oh well its still better at killing MEQ and mathmathically better then 2.0" is a completely moot and pointless argument.Do you want to know why?Because EVERYTHING is fucking good at killing MEQ, no one gives a shit if your weapons are good at killing MEQ because again, the ability to kill Sv3 T4 1W models is easy, now do it against TEQ, which are now T5, shit sucks.
>>98826647Plasma is now better at killing TEQ for the same reason its better at killing MEQ, its s7 and wants breaches, it doesent care terminators went to T5. Also, those interemptors plasma flamers are fucking brutal and simply delete squads. And on the topic of "its not a vacuum", you know what else happened? Blasts got giga buffed. They are now SIGNIFICANTLY better. You only scatter if you miss, scatter less, and still fire the shot if you gets hot. Thats a big boon to plasma cannons of all kinds. >gravis plasma becuase its large blast breaching 5+ 2 damagSo is the saturnine dread, its also barrage which is brutal in the current LOS rules. The plasma predator is breaching 4+ large blast two damage. Theres a lot of very potent high end plasma weapons you see quite a bit. Basically the only bad plasma weapons imo are plasma pistols (you never take them in numbers that matter) and plasma blasters. >Because EVERYTHING is fucking good at killing MEQBring your melta kratos to go kill tacticals, see how well it does. Everything kills tacticals, not everything kills tacticals well. Especially now that rerolls are gone and missing shots is a real possibility. Plasma weapons have the shots (or blast templates) to be reliably effective into all manner of astartes infantry.The meme of "everything kills tacticals, dont worry about it and just bring what kills terminators" is how you get drowned in tacs that just camp objectives.
Aircraft were a mistake
>>98826210About that. They just don't want flyers to be good. I doubt we'll see plastics and I'd bet they're all legends in 4e next year.
>>98826724I like my legion lightning fighters, they are pretty fun in epic armageddon.
>>98826688But why would I spend a detachment or a prime slot to get plasma, when I could get:> Terminators> Dreadnoughts> Tanks> Lascannons> Meltaguns> Disintegrators> Assault Veterans> Command Squads> Legion-Specific Units> Destroyers> Rapiersfor the same opportunity cost in listbuilding?
>>98826731This liteally goes against the exact wording of teh fucking rule book LMAORAW in teh big rule book say, you roll, and then decide if you want to bring it on. WTF is GW doing?Thats not an FAQ its a complete rule reversal.
>>98826624>2 shots vs 1I'm not sure I agree with the current trend of granting a Rapid Fire weapon's full firepower across its entire range. It diminishes the reward of closing in, and I believe marines are the big faction that closes in.But it is done and we have to live with it. How come the plasma comparisons are always 2 shots vs 1? Earlier plasma would get one shot vs the new one's two...but then close in and get 3 shots vs the new one's 4.Your formula shows that New Plasma needs at least 1.75 times the shots of Old Plasma to keep pace. That is, it needs to do 2 shots while the older does 1. Or 4 shots while the older does 3 or less.If it were to do 6 shots and the older did 5 at the third turn, New Plasma would now be at a disadvantage.My verdict: plasma got simpler at the cost of tactics shrinking, and it isn't as good as it was before...and that's okay, because bolters as a small arm were pointless when other guns were that better.Now they aren't as good, and bolters are the best they've ever been>>98826688>you get drowned in tacs that just camp objectives.You do realize all those 20 Line 2 guys get shut down the moment anything comes into melee with them, right? Units in combat cannot score. Nothing is invincible.
I don't actually try to get objectives, i just kill things, just 5th edition baby things
>>98826795>How come the plasma comparisons are always 2 shots vs 1?Because you never actually got the 2 shots from normal plasma guns. Rapid fire kinda blew.
>>98826813Based Vanguard X anon
>>98826814Bro shies from combat, and cannot bring his weapon's full might to bear he he he
>>98826795>How come the plasma comparisons are always 2 shots vs 1?Because their narrative benefits from it the most. The rest of your points are valid. Everyone would rapid fire plasma when given the chance previously. Why wouldn't you? A plasma alpha strike was potent.
>>98826764What unit is "plasma"? Also>why take plasma when I can take disintigratorsAnon are you messing with me?
>>98826795>why dont people close in with their expensive tacticalsBecause TSS die to a stiff breeze and cost a lot of pts. Which is why plasma TSS were worthless with rapid fire plasmas, if they could shoot you they could get charged and then die.
>>98826795>You do realize all those 20 Line 2 guys get shut down the moment anything comes into melee with them, right?Who said 20 man units? Just a lot of 10 man uinits"but you can charge them!"And? The way that sort of strategy works is by just drowning objectives with the (sometimes correct) assumption that the enemy lacks any actually efficient ways to kill tacticals in such numbers (because "everything kills tacticals so why spec for it"). You can charge your 400pts terminator command squad at one and evaporate it, but so what, theres 3 more ready to score the objective.
>>98826863Plasma guns were the weapon being discussed, but plasma cannons as well - anything that goes on a TSS/HSS/VSS.Also, no, not baiting - if I'm going to spend either a prime slot or a detachment to get access to plasma, why would I not spend less/the same amount of points for guaranteed AP3/AP2? I can even make them fly, so there's another advantage to them.
>>98826871My plasma TSS arrived in drop pods and always made their points back deleting something critical. But you're right, every list didn't have a plasma TSS in some way or another in 1e. No way, nah. Rapid fire was trash and there was no way to work around it.
>>98826888>why would I not spend less/the same amount of points for guaranteed AP3/AP2?Because disintegrators are worse into most targets and kill their users almost as well as they kill their targets. A basic D gun (the sort TSS and vets take) does 0.3 wounds to MEQ per shot. Doubled vs VEQ because D2. D guns are SUPER specialized in what they want to shoot at, theyre mathematically worse than volkites into every target except VEQ. And this is before you consider the whole "explode and die" aspect of them, especially bad on veterans which are themselves the ideal target of the gun. Why would I take a shorter range and less flexible D gun/heavy D squad when I can take some plasma guns/plasma cannons, be as good if not better into basically every target, be longer range, and die to my own weapons less? Am I expecting to face nothing but veterans?
>>98826895>1eWas unbalanced dogshit where people tried running a marines only game using rules not intended for marines only games. No shit Ap2 plasma saw play, it was the "kill marines" gun designed to counter the faction.
>>98826910>0.3 woundsgambler's fallacy
>>98826910I won't argue that D guns aren't (mostly) shit, but flat AP2 is great into terminators, and the unit cost is cheaper in every case except VSS plasma against VSS D blaster, where they are the same.The 'explodes self' problem is annoying, but this also used to be the problem with plasma, so I don't really see how it's a downside which would disqualify their use?Lastly,> Flying D gunsresolve all problems with them (except cost), but they're still 80 points cheaper than a VSS plasma cannon squad
>>98826886>enemy lacks any actually efficient ways to kill tacticals in such numbersA regular terminator unit in a Land Raider costs like 450 pts and can defeat 3 separate Tactical units per turn.Don't tell me you have 4 troop slots all in one objective. I simply cannot believe you, you madman!
>>98826914>rules not intended for marines only games...aren't 75% of regular 40k games also Marine vs Marine? 30k merely formalized what had been true for 6 editions at the time: marines are the only faction that mattered
>>98826990>A regular terminator unit in a Land Raider costs like 450 pts and can defeat 3 separate Tactical units per turn.They cant. They kill around 2 with shooting on their combi bolters and a further 4~ in melee (two attacks hitting on 2s, you could have twin claws which do more there but then you cant shoot). The land raider kills a further 3 with its lascannons. A regular terminator unit in a land raider will kill around a marine squad per turn once they get there, which is not enough for that sort of investment.
>>98827003Marines saw basically no play in a lot of marine lists (at least CSM) because of how much they sucked in regular 40k circa 6e. Plasma guns subsequently saw very little use in 40k.
>>98826974>but flat AP2 is great into terminatorsS5 1 shot isnt. Thats the issue with the D guns, theyre super unreliable (and close range, and they kill you). >and the unit cost is cheaper in every caseI would much rather pay 10pts for a plasma gun than 5pts for the Ap3 D blaster. >resolve all problems with them (except cost), but they're still 80 points cheaper than a VSS plasma cannon squadFirst of all>VSSHSS exist if you want cheap guns. Second of all: the damage just isnt the same. A D gun command squad (which is what the flying D guns are) is actually a pretty solid unit, but its damage output is not very high. Its thing is simply being 2+ save jump infantry with enough damage to demand an answer from the opponent, and their 2+ save protects them from their guns murdering them horribly. But its still only 10 S4 Ap3 shots hitting on 3s. Its not a whole lot of damage into most targets, and you trade the combat potential of a command squad to do it. Its absolutely a niche pick I would maybe consider with a MoD to have them turn 1 show up and assassinate some sort of valuable power armor unit. Autocannon HSS maybe? Not sure they beat that return fire actually.
>>98826954Would you rather "its going to do 0 wounds on average, and then deal a wound 30% of the time"?
I know they used Mars pattern predators in the Heresy, but what about Lucius pattern Vindicators?
>>98824828I feel like an idiot, thanks anon
>>98827043Kill? That's obsolete, anon! Update to the new edition, brother:>270 Land Raider Carrier flames Tac squad A, causing Panic 2. One more and it'd be phosphex >210 pts TH Terminators shoot Tac squad B. It doesn't matter how many their bolters kill (~2), their heavy flamer gives them a Panic test better than ranged casualties would. For safety, have the LR's havoc launcher do a Stun 1 test on them too.>As of 3E, units no longer need to charge the same unit they shot at. Charge Tac squad C. They cannot score either. When they are defeated, you will score Vanguard.>You still have a 4 Lascannon surplus. Use them on targets of opportunity.That's 3 troops (out of the 4 of the Crusade detachment) that can no longer score. But indeed we ran into a 30 pts overdraft, especially from buying hammers we didn't know we weren't going to need but bought just in case.Bake nu bread already plox
>>98827071>I would much rather pay 10pts for a plasma gun than 5pts for the Ap3 D blaster.The D veterans are 30pts more expensive than the TSS plasma, but you get double the wounds and BS5 as opposed to BS4.These same D veterans are 105pts cheaper than VSS plasma, so you can have 3 squads of them for 2 VSS plasma.The flying D guns are very niche, but still only 35pts more than a HSS w/plasma cannons.Their combat potential is also not trash - with WS5 and 3A, they aren't going to win against a dedicated melee squad, but against something like a tactical / veteran squad they've just fired D guns into, it's probably enough to win the combat.
>>98826774>From turn 2 you can decide which board edge you come in from because if a pilot decides to take the long way it takes longerCool, makes sense >But you can't decide whether you want to come in or not because a pilot doesn't choose Fucking pick oneI pick an aircraft even though it's a bit random because it's more flexible Now on a 4+, it's just a fancy rhino
>>98827173>Stun 1 test on them tooYou can only be tested for a status once per phase
>>98827236You can be tested once for each status1 panic+1 stun+1 suppress+1 pin
>>98827236>>98827275
>>98827173>>270 Land Raider Carrier flames Tac squad A, causing Panic 2Panic(1) on heavy flamers, unless they have something else im not remembering. And thats assuming your 10" tank is in flamer range. Repeat that last bit for the rest of the "just flamer them" things. And forgetting that those routed statuses will vanish before they matter because nuncio voxes are 10pts.
>>98827173>470 ptsYou could do it for 445 if you switched to a LR explorer. The flamer positioning requires the LR to be fairly close anyway, and it's not like the Termies will be wanting to volley and miss their chsrge
>>98827187>The D veterans are 30pts more expensive than the TSS plasmaAnd do quite a bit less damage (into all targets that arent vets). And while theyre indeed more durable vs return fire/enemy shooting (small arms anyways), they also self delete at a pretty reasonable rate (its equivalent damage to the unit vs a 10 man plasma squad iirc, the extra durability doesent matter because D guns are D2). Id rather take vets with volkite (and do, luv my volkite + flamer + rotor vets) and take a TSS as a reliable all rounder medium range damage option (which will do consistently "okay" into everything from dreads to terminators to custodes), than take D gun vets and have them be duds unless they get the one matchup they want. Pretty sure volkites do more damage on average into most things anyways.
>>98827326>Panic(1) on heavy flamersPanic 2 on dual heavy flamers>Voxes can cure statusesDo they prevent the squads' moving away from the objective from Panic? I was thinking the victorious Termies should volley the fleeing squad, or try consolidating into another nearby squad if that's allowed.I guess that's what the surplus Lascannon shots will have to be used on.>>98827346Ooh 12" move
4chan thinks the new thread is spam so somebody else has to make it
>>98827373>Do they prevent the squads' moving away from the objective from Panic?Yes afaik. That (the vox) happens before the movement phase (when you move as a routed unit). So literally yes. Nuncio voxes are insanely good if theres a key status you need dealt with. >explorerKeep in mind the explorer isnt an assault vehicle. And your terminators (unless cata) really want that setup move. Because trying to charge someone without a setup move is basically impossible unless they let you (by not moving their guys away). (or just downright impossible vs NL and AL who choose to react)
>>98827187>Their combat potential is also not trashNo, it isnt. But its also nothing to write home about. Theyll squeeze out wins vs tacticals of course, but its not exactly decisive damage (simply because theyre fairly low damage) and theyll crumple vs any melee elites when command squads are normally the cream of the crop in that regard. The flying D guns is a respectable niche pick though, not badmouthing it. I know a guy who swears by them totally.
Sell me on the various Sicaran configurations. I want to make them work. 2x Sicaran instead of a kratos.
>>98827436>2x sicaran instead of kratosVenators.I find that the most successful Sicarans I've seen are the autocannon ones with heavy bolters. They're cheap and great for harassing enemy infantry. My buddy runs a Wolves heavy vehicle list and they're great skirmishers in that
>>98827499>They're cheapI dont know if I would call 160pts cheap. But honestly I kinda see the vision. I was considering something similar with predators (naked 100pts predators seem really solid skirmishers).
>>98827502Did they go up? I thought they were more like 125 but I haven't played in a year
>>98827511>Did they go up?I dont remember their exact cost in 2e. But they were always 160pts in 3e. Its my main issue with them relative to predators. You pay so much for +2 movement, +2 rear armor and +1HP (and a hull(front) heavy bolter). Its not like their gun options are actually that much better than the predator ones (especially for the pts they cost). At 125pts base theyd be great.
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