Canopus tongue my anus

>>98825375
confirmed, sending catboys to your coordinates

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HONOR THE DRAGON!

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>>98825375
>>98825385
>cat tongue on your anus
It's a hobby, I guess.

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What does /btg/ consider the most "Glupp Shitto" of mechs?

MW:LL is coming to Steam.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/4272900/MW_Living_Legends/

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So to end last threads discussion, no the innersphere never had the time or manpower to retool their entire production lines to start making a tiny amount of super expensive clan omnimechs, when their current lines could just send several helm core refitted Zeus's and Victor's at the clans and be cost effective against their heavies and mediums.

As for why its available in the Ilclan era I believe this has more to do with the fact that the clans and the innersphere have been melding together culture wise for a long time, what with the wolves taking Terra just being the latest escalation. The Sharks selling to everyone who can afford their prices, the Raven alliance making Kurita and Davion sweat with their fleet and mixed periphery glory and clan tech. (Where you see introtech shitboxes walk side by side with clan omnimechs in salvage stars so they can carry the innersphere battle armor in perfect harmony)
Not to mention the entire clan jade falcon civil war and hinterlands making a lot of former enemies band together out of desperation. Also the Rasalhague Dominion has been a "shining example" that coexistence under clan rule is quite possible.

Not to mention that if the master unit list is to be believed, mercenaries have been rocking around in ubiquitous Summoners (That's Thors to you innersphere surats) since the clan wars due to just how many of them got wrecked across the many battles, it is truly the ubiquitous every man omnimech for anyone with 21 million cbills to spare, or were willing to risk life and limb to go raid a clanner outpost and then buy spare parts on the black market. It probably also helps that it doesn't have expensive space age clan endosteel, so your average mech tech can actually weld it together pretty early on since clan tech hadn't diverged that much from innersphere tech yet.

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>>98825685
No, fuck off, this topic sucks ass. You're both right, you're both the smartest, shut the fuck up.

Say something nice about the Battleaxe that you can't about his son Warhammer.

>>98825696
they the same picture mane

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>>98825696
I prefer the actual Warhammer to the legally destinct totally not a Warhammer.

>>98825682
>>>/v/

>>98825682
like 10 years too late

>>98825696
>>98825720
The Battleaxe is basically what the Warhammer would have been if the designers had watched the anime first.

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>>98825767
Are you trying to tell me this isn't PPC fire?

>>98825773
In Macross/Robotech, those brown panels on the sides of the Tomahawk's torso could open to reveal anti-air missiles, but they were left out of the Warhammer, presumably because the designers never saw any pictures of it with them deployed, so it's rather fitting to give a mech that's supposed to be an early version of the Warhammer side torso LRMs.

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>>98825397
DRAGON STATUS: HONORED

>>98825696
>Battleaxe
Just read the lore on this. It's still baffling to me that this ancient design would be revived over just building more Warhammers

>>98825852
Shitbox of two PPCs and 15 sinking.

>>98825843
what is this, archer with cockpit up top?

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>>98825852
He won, get over it. The Patton will be put back into production.

>>98825869
Well even the "modern" variant is just a Warhammer. It's not even a smaller Warhammer or a bigger Warhammer, it's the same weight. The newest version uses weird experimental tech and doesn't even have a BV associated with it. Like I like the design it looks cool but it's just kinda dumb
>>98825883
Idk who this is and I'm deeply in favor of 1 trillion Ultra Pattons rolling across the IS raping everything

>>98825874
Looks like they just copied the old Macross model. Just like the Warhammer losing the Tomahawk's concealed missiles, the Destroid Spartan had a big gun hidden in its torso and the cockpit was on top.

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>>98825922
Pierre Sprey, notoriously stupid defense commentator.

>>98825952
Half his rationales against the M1 don't even apply to M1A1, much less M1A2 and its family tree.

>>98825952
My head hurts after reading this

>>98825971
This guy genuinely believed aircraft don't need radar and that missiles dont work.

>>98825952
Aka the gun is good the missile is evil guy.

>>98825760
More like 15.

>>98826046
"The less capable thing is better" is more accurate. His idea was always to propose a massively inferior system be used over a superior one and just lie about the superior one.

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>>98825952
>Just spam cheap tanks at the problem
Ah a fellow RTS enjoyer

OP now trying to push his retard take from the previous topic as if it's not his own and super insightful now. What a fucking loser. We get it, you lost a game to someone playing as the clans 30 years ago and you've been throwing a temper tantrum ever since. Get the fuck over it. There is absolutely zero evidence or reasons, I repeat ZERO, as to why a CERML would be less durable than a regular IS ML.

>>98826035
What the fuck lmao?

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>>98826274
This was his idea for a CAS plane. He thought the A-10 was too big and expensive and didn't need missile or bomb hardpoints or radar.

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>>98826294

>>98826250
It's not even like clantech being superior invalidates IS tech. I frequently take the stock variant of the Nightsky into combat with clan mechs and have no issue with it. Just use a better mech I don't know what to say

>>98826294
I get the sense this guy would do well in the DCMS; just send a horde of cheap suicidal shitbuckets at the enemy until your sheer numbers overwhelm their fancier tech.

>>98825869
The Marauder 3R?

>>98826454
Canonically, Horde Formations were a disaster that resulted in unacceptably high casualties and the commander responsible just barely avoided being forced to commit seppuku. They're pretty good in game if you're using the formation building rules, though.

>>98826454
Pretty sure the "Charge of the Horde" tactic in-universe didn't work until the guy who invented it got killed and they started using hordes of Jenners and Panthers instead of hordes of shitass bug mechs designed for recon work, paired with smarter deployment and tactics. Which lines up well with real life, history has shown time and time again that better training, better command and better equipment (in that order) reliably beats shitty command+shitty equipment+numerical superiority. Numerical superiority only works if the side that possesses it has good leadership, training and motivation that's at least decent compared to their foe, AND have equipment that is at least passable against whatever enemy they're against. Take the Battle of Isandlwana for example: Yes, the Zulus had numerical superiority, but the British had better equipment and were well trained, they lost because of tactical blunders while the Zulus actually outmanuevered them, THEN let their numbers do the work, and the British just having single-shot rifles and bayonets (and a couple of field guns) still allowed "close enough" parity equipment-wise (given the scenario) between the Brits and Zulus that the Zulus could still beat them. If the Zulus hadn't outmanuevered them, if the British had better fortified their position, etc, then the battle could have gone differently, so numbers don't always win unless you know how to use those numbers effectively and/or the enemy is more retarded than you are

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>26 planets
>all have been settled for 20 years at most
>2 are "self sustaining"
>the other 24 are hostile to the point of almost being uninhabitable with star league terraforming tech
Were the successor states in a better or worse position at the end of the jihad than the clans as a whole at the end of the pentagon civil war?

>>98825952
I dont think the 90mm gun on the M48 would frontally penetrate a T64 at any range, it certainly wouldn't be able to penetrate the turret. If you decided to spam M48s in a war vs the soviet union the 70s youd have a shitload of dead tankers and not anything like enough dead russians.

>>98826711
Jesus, I keep forgetting how badly the Taurians got fucked.

>>98826720
Yes, Sprey would've lost us the fucking Gulf War. Never fucking listen to his ilk who still live and advocate his ideas to the military.

>>98826294
Is that a MechBuster?

>>98826046
I feel like he kinda shot himself in the foot with that (no pun intended), seeing as missile launcher upgrades are one of the main ways older platforms can stay competitive on modern battlefields.

>>98826413
>It's not even like clantech being superior invalidates IS tech
Kind of does because the clans have no issue making enough clantech to use it exclusively and BV isn't a thing in-universe. It only doesn't invalidate IS tech for IS states because IS states arbitrarily cannot instantly retool all of their factories and produce exclusively clantech at scale like the clans did from the moment they invented clantech.
It would be like if the soviet union had relied overwhelmingly on piston engine fighters(not all of them even being turboprops) all the way to the 90's and only had a couple jet fighters because "jet engines are just too expensive and hard to make", while the US, british, french, and even chinese had shifted exclusively to jet fighters decades ago.

>>98826783
There's another possibility, although CGL or whoever happens to be in control of the brand would be nuts to say it out loud, which is that it's so difficult for Spheroids to replicate Clan technology because the Clan scientist caste are just objectively smarter to the point that normal people's brains literally lack the processing power to fully comprehend their work. Remember, these are people who are the products of generations of bioengineering and selective breeding. While they certainly made some questionable decisions with the whole Society thing, war and politics don't necessarily benefit from the same KIND of mental processes as science and engineering, especially for a brain deliberately designed for the latter rather than the former. Humans and chimpanzees are something like 80-90% genetically identical, depending on how you count. Is it so inconceivable that something could exist that's just a few percent different in the other direction?

>>98826783
That's a fine analogy but you forget that the IS has like 10X the troops on a conservative side and the clans are only on the hook for making equipment for like 30 dudes once a year basically. Even when the clanners came to the IS and gained access to planets with fresh resources, their toumans didn't expand that much. Iirc the Star Adders are STILL known for having a large Touman and they run like what, 10ish planets maybe?

>>98826893
I'm afraid that doesn't work as an explanation, IS scientists already managed to make clanspec equipment in very limited quantities during the clan invasion.

>>98825363
That pic reminds me of the little stuffed Elementals from that one Black Marauder story.

>>98826893
The problem is that we know for a fact the IS thoroughly understood clantech almost as soon as they got examples of it to study. Furthermore, while you are correct that eugenic breeding to create smarter people IRL would probably work, especially with the tech the clanners have available to them, BT and especially CGL's writers exist in this retarded hippy worldview that eugenics doesn't really matter that much, if at all, towards the performance of a person because we are less beautiful tabula rasa butterflies under the sun and things like genetics, race, upbringing, culture have no effect on a person because we are all equal. Basically they are big fat babies in terms of writing and also the thing you are suggesting already got thrown out years ago so it all comes down IS industrial capability being sluggish to the extreme because reasons

>>98826294
No, the BlitzFighter wasn't Sprey, it was Burton. You know, the guy who wrote Pentagon Wars.

>>98826757
Close enough. But the Mechbuster's gun is actually devastating if it lands a shot.

>>98826939
Same picture. They're both the same type of pathological liar.

>>98826925
It really is a product of cowardice. The reason most people are so uncomfortable with issues like racism and eugenics has nothing to do with sympathy for people who've been mistreated because of their heritage. It's because most people, at least most people raised in an individualist, neoliberal Anglo-American culture, have an all-consuming, existential horror of the idea that their bodies and minds are not fully their own.

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Let's continue with rolling up a Periphery Realm where we left off last thread:

------

Location: The Draconian Drift (>>98822736 , there was supposed to be no +)

# of Worlds: 6 (>>98822749 , anon was supposed to use a -1)

Founding Era: Clan Invasion (>>98822987)

Current Government: (2d6)
>2: Clan
>3-4: Republic
>5-7: Hereditary Feudalism (Low Centralization)
>6-9: Hereditary Feudalism (High Centralization)
>10-11: Elective Monarchy
>12: Uncommon

If Uncommon is rolled (1d6):
>1: Communist
>2: Technocracy
>3: Corporate
>4: Theocracy
>5: Absolute Monarchy
>6: Direct Democracy

Capital HPG Access: (2d6)
>2: No Service
>3-4: D-Rated Service
>5-7: C-Rated Service
>8-10: B-Rated HPG
>11-12: A-Rated HPG

Realm's Average Technology Ratings (2d6) (Roll 4 Times for BattleTech, ComTech, IndustryTech, and TransporTech)
2: C
3-8: D
9-11: E
12: F

Population (Roll 4d6 for each planet) (Numbers gotten from Campaign Ops Planetary Population chart "500-600 LY")
If First Die is 1-2, Planet was colonized during Star League or Earlier
>1-5: 10 Million x 4d6
>6: 100 Million x 4d6

If First Die is 3-6, Planet was colonized post-Star League
>1-5: 2 Million x 2d6
>6: 20 Million x 2d6

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>>98826983
I agree, but it's worth crediting your retards responsibly, especially when the pre-eminent voices screaming about Pentagon corruption are the kind of people who think a glorified A-10 is the ideal air-to-air fighter.

Or have some real Periphery shit, Mike Sparks' own original Infantry Platoon (Airborne Mechanized).

Rolled 1, 5 = 6 (2d6)

>>98827009
Rolling for government

Rolled 4, 2 = 6 (2d6)

>>98827052
Surely our HPG works, right?

>>98827063
How bad are C-rated services?

Rolled 6, 2, 4, 3, 5, 5, 2, 1 = 28 (8d6)

>>98827063
Let's go, 11 in BattleTech and 2 everywhere else.

>>98827114
>8 BT
>7 CT
>10 IT
>3 TT

We can sure as hell make things but they're not going anywhere when it's done.

>>98826898
I'm pretty sure the clans as a whole during operation REVIVAL had at least as many battlemechs in battlemech units as the capellan confederation had in their 40 or so battlemech regiments during the fedcom civil war.
If each CC battlemech regiment was four batallions(medium sized for a regiment), that would be about 5700 battlemechs. If each clan had seven galaxies(we know most of them had at least ten) and each galaxy had a single front line cluster with 3 battlemech trinaries, that would be about 6000 battlemechs. So the clans, even if we intentionally give them a low estimate, are fielding more battlemechs in the 3050's than an entire successor state during the 3060's.

>>98827097
C rating means you don't have an HPG but Comstar sends a mail ship around quarterly.

>>98826294
To be fair though, the actual a10's 'radar' is pretty damn pathetic. It's this utterly tiny little thing in a little pod on the right wing tip. Because there's no room.in the nose for it. So it almost may as well not have a radar for how shit it is. A lot of the time troops on the ground are aiming for it. Or interlinked targeting from other air crafts, iirc.
it has to be REALLY close in 'close air support' for the radar to be useful. Far, far too close for modern weaponry. It's not a near peer or peer to peer combat vehicle of any kind. It literally is just for beating up on people who cannot meaningfully fight back in any way.

Which is why it's job has been supplanted in many nations actually needing an aircraft for the role, with fucking cropdusters, of all things. They use modified crop duster aircraft purpose built with new avionics and fuel tanks who have massive loiter time and ordnance capacity to go up, wait, and drop warheads on cartel / terrorist foreheads from beyond counter-engagement range.

>>98827052
Low Centralization Feudalism, so more in the direction of the Federated Suns than the Draconis Combine.

>>98827097
It means there's a contract with either Comstar or another force for a jumpship to come around once every 3 months with message deliveries, and that jumpship's dropship collars are subsidized for trade.

>>98827114
I'd prefer if multiple people do the rolling for this. That's why I said 2d6 and Roll 4 Times separately. Similar situation with the Planets (which I also hope includes suggestions for names).

So for this, it's just the D rating (Age of War/Succession Wars) BattleTechnology.

>>98827150
104 'mechs per battalion x 4 battalions per regiment x 40 regiments = 16640 'mechs

Rolled 6, 2 = 8 (2d6)

>>98827009
>>98827211
Rolling for ComTech

Hell, iirc, the a10 WAS an MIC boondoggle, designed by committee PoS even when it was brand new.

I know a whole bunch of air force people just wanted more f15's, since they could do it all, etc.

>>98827214
A battalion normally has 36-40 battlemechs and then everything else you would attach to a battalion.
So about 5700 battlemechs for 40 battlemech regiments.

>>98827209
You're not wrong, but you're also looking at the wrong role. The BlitzFighter was intended as an air superiority platform.

>>98827008
Ya people get EXTREMELY insecure about theoretically being genetically disinclined towards certain things. It's really not that big of a deal, you should always try your best regardless and if you are good at something and you like it, go in that direction. Everything can't be for everyone

>>98827269
Oh yeah, I'm not saying Pierre etc. Aren't giant retarded armchair generals of supreme faggotry.
I am.just pointing out that quite a lot of the vehicles the military has are actually quite shit, almost infamously so.

For example, in my country, the f111 persisted for decades and decades and decades after it was glaringly 'obsolete' because anything the politicians would even countenance spending money on, wouldn't even remotely do what was being done by the aardvarks. The pig. Ended up being a horrific sink pit of money.

Eventually they had to retire them once all the airframes were a zillion zillion flight hours past the end of their life cycle, and they replaced them by... bolting on a partial upgrade package to the f18's we had. Which were like gen 1 f18's. It took until like 2005-10 + for us to even get properly upgraded f/a 18's and we are only just now upgrading? Our few super hornets and the f/a 18 ___'s just before the E's we had/have up to G 'growler' standards. And I think after 40? Fucking years we're finally getting the f22's? We were promised forever ago, and that's only in a tiny amount because they're getting the f35's instead of all the f22's we was going to get.

And that's just ONE 'ally' nation to the US, quite small, and very friendly. Total fucking dogs breakfast of a situation.

>>98827150
Warriors of Kerensky gives Touman sizes in Clusters. As of 3060 or whatever, there are 486 Clusters total. Comment: biggest are Bears at 58 and Adders at 52; smallest are Hellions at 21 and Cobras at 22; Spirits are 27, which makes them the 6th smallest, i.e. near the middle; this is notable because they have a single world.

Let's call those 60 Points on average, and those Points 60% Mechs (because we're including Second-Line units too), we get 17496 'Mechs, or 162 pure-Mech regiments. The number could be up to twice as large if we assume only giant Clusters of only Mechs. It could also be lower.

>>98827264
You're right, I misread the table. 104 is a regiment.

>>98827262
The A10 did really well at the role it was designed for - close air support that involved popping tanks with direct fire from its cannon.

Unfortunately, it was a useless role that never really existed, and definitely didn't by the time the plane was introduced in the late 70s.

>>98827353
I feel like Novas throw the numbers off since they count as a star but have twice the points.

>>98827269
Fuck me. That reminds me of our surface warfare vessels.

Alright. So the navy needed new boats, like, again, 40 fucking years ago. Eventually the government, instead of just buying Ticonderoga's the us was willing to have sold us and built here... oh no, instead there's this long long drawn out design and tender process.

The first ships we ended up with are anti air designs, that is all their noisy engines and such are deep down in the hull and keel... and these ships are fitted out... for anti submarine duty. So their sensitive listening equipment.. all that shit, is right next to the big fucking noisy shaky machinery and shit, meaning they utterly suck all of the ASS at their supposed jobs.

So the navy asks again, please can we have actual boats that work. The government grumbles for years, and finally gets the ball rolling... and ends up delivering (some are still being fit out etc in various stages of production) ships that are designed for anti submarine shit, ie, all their engines etc are up near the top of the deck, far far away from the keel and baffled etc to protect that area from the ships noisy shit...

And these are fitted out for anti air duties. So all their sensitive radars and shit are constantly getting shaken to fuck by the engines etc they're mounted directly atop of.


AND just to make extra retard juice squeezed on this shit sandwich of fuck.

For this current rounds of boats

The navy asked for next gen / current gen euro hulls(spanish were going to shownus how to build them iirc), fitted out with current gen, next gen US tech. (The Americans were quite keen to help us have boats that aren't shit so our navy can be of any actual fucking use at all to them)

Instead, the navy received last gen US hulls, with last gen euro tech fittings...

>>98827390
>as a star but have twice the points.

But not extra Mechs. This is just an inventory of Mechs.

The Australian navy is in such a pathetic state right now they have, like, the majority of our vessels are stuck in drydock or in dock, because no on in Australia is stupid enough to JOIN the navy. The RAN cannot crew half their shit.

That's how shit our military is. Even the fucking normies understand its a suicidal move.

>>98827414
Meh. Australia's navy is a vanity project. At best it can show China that it's not worth conquering outlying islands. China can't invade Australia's mainland, and there's no pirates anywhere nearby.

>>98827353
That's a pretty crazy number of mechs for under 30 systems that are all notoriously shit.

>>98827334
Ah, Aussie. It's a curious paradox, how the seal clubbing department is one you can get away with cheaping out on, but having a dedicated seal clubbing department is a luxury in and of itself.

>>98827424
Yeah, writing it all out like that is pretty insane.

Rolled 2, 5 = 7 (2d6)

>>98827232
Industry go BRRRRRRRRRR

>>98827405
It still throws off Star count since some of the Stars have double Points. Either there's less Stars overall or they backfilled the empty slots with something else.

>>98827421
Technically, we should just have a bunch of really nice gunboats, and they should constantly be on patrol blasting illegal fishing vessels and smuggling vessels out of the water. Fuck. Think modernised MTB's. River boats and shit. Just more seaworthy, better radars etc. And maybe a nice deck gun. A bushmaster or rheinmetall autocannon. Because the threat we actually face is Asians fucking turning entire ecosystems of food into ocean 'deserts' where everything is fucking dead thanks to overfishing.

The we need just a few actual naval vessels for near peer shit, since the Australian navy's actual job>>98827431 the actual.fucking job the AN is supposed to do, is to plug a hole in the USN's flank. Having close ports to keep armed and fuelled on a flank that is a zillion nm away from us bases. Radar watch in a hole the US has. Thats the actual 'job' the RAN is supposed to be doing

As for pirates. We do have quite a lot of deug smuggling through asia into australia and then that goes to the rest of the west.

However the worst illegality we have that our navy should be for stopping...

Australia is a central hub for the start of trafficking kidnapped LBFM's. Asia manages to lose a truly horrific amount of brown girls that all go... somewhere...

>>98826728
Modern CGL absolutely fucking hates them for some reason. Not that they got treated much better under FASA. They have the terminal flaw of being antagonistic to a protagonist faction.

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>>98827473
Maybe transport will be above D at least?

>>98828056
>for some reason.

If you want to buff the Cappies and the Canopians, the easiest way to do it is at the cost of the Taurians.

Rolled 2, 1 = 3 (2d6)

>>98828244
YOU FOOL!

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>>98826728
>>98828056
Deserved for being the worst meme-spouting retards in the community, second to none.

>muh nooks
>muh hippity hoppity ancap memes
>muh space Texas

I would rather see "Steiner Scout Lance" or Urbanmech memes on repeat forever than listen to Redditors glaze the Taurians for another second.

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What's realistic to go with a Hatchetman in a merc lance? Doesn't have to be a great make up, but something that's reliable and realistic for a merc group to get their hands on, and makes sense. Tabletop viability isn't a huge matter, as I won't be playing with em. Just a display lance.

Is the Hatchetman already "rare," in that adding a salvaged clan mech would make it unbelievable overall?

>>98828433
The Taurians used to get the kind of shilling here that Kuritans do now, then Tex started talking about them.

>>98828442
I don't think the Hatchetman is particularly unavailable to mercs, especially as the timeline progresses. As for the clan mech, that entirely depends on what year it is.

>>98828433
I hate how people try to meme a monarchical welfare state as libertarian.

>>98828442
Trebuchet, Commando, Merlin.

>>98828442
It's a 4/6/4 AC10 trooper that just happens to have a hatchet (that smart pilots avoid trying to use.) Realistically it's there to protect fire support mechs or walk alongside heavies adding its autocannon to whatever they're doing.

>>98828442
Do an all AC/10 lance with a Rifleman 3C, Orion K, and a Swayback.

>>98828468
>libertarian

The Taurians are maybe the least libertarian power in the Inner Sphere, lol.

The OA are the most libertarian. They don't even have a central bank (so who issues the escudo?).

>>98828513
>who issues the escudo
They use vintage ones from Portugal.

>>98828433
I got a taurian patch coming into the community and I kinda regretted it after actually reading taurian shit. like, they're okay, but I'm not at all interested in playing as them. they got what they deserved.

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>>98828530
Tarians are fun, but they're not badass. The main mistake with faggot fans over the years is trying to elevate them to Great House ranking when they've been crushed and broken since the Reunification War, and that's never gonna be overcome. What they should do is revel in being the most honest bros among the periphery nations and still making a little headway in cranking out cool machines and exploring the stars even when beat into the dirt.

>>98828457
Let's say Clan Invasion era, and they got lucky.

>>98828056
NTA but the Taurians got fucked like that in the DA Wizkids jump. CGL actually let them run roughshod in the Vendetta campaign, and then let them get on a path toward reunifying since the Late DA.

>>98828547
The Periphery nations need to be Great Houses 2.0 as the Inner Sphere has finally fractured so totally that there is no chance of them rebuilding. Instead of 5 major Houses you can get 10.

>>98828656
Nah, clans need to die instead. Praise Blake.
>hpg authentication not required

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WIP I started today. I like it so far but not sure whether I should make it into a total rust bucket or lean into a more military look

>>98828433
>Deserved for being the worst meme-spouting retards in the community, second to none.
This is the correct answer

>>98828442
If you want to go by the Formation Building rules, there's a thing called a Berserker Lance where all of them have melee weapons. I think the main example was two Hatchetmen, an Axman and that Wolverine variant with a hatchet. It's mainly a Rasalhague thing. Maybe they're a Kungsarmeé lance that deserted and turned mercenary after the Ghost Bears took over.

>>98825363
Clan Tech isn't just superior in terms of performance, but is specifically optimized for logistics and maintenance because it's all modular. You can repair damage and replace components faster, everything is standardized. The principle difference is the centuries NOT spent nuking their own industrial and scientific base back into the stone age.

>>98829012
>The principle difference is the centuries NOT spent nuking their own industrial and scientific base back into the stone age.
Not an excuse
There's no legitimate reason for clan tech to still be better after 3055, and anything else is just simping for the authors pet furries.

>>98829012
>The principle difference is the centuries NOT spent nuking their own industrial and scientific base back into the stone age
You must have a crazy misunderstanding of the timeline. Clantech wasn't invented after centuries of peace, it was invented after 20 years of some SLDF scientists sitting around on some barely habitable rocks brainstorming how to make better star league tech immediately after they barely survived what seemed like a doomed voyage through space.
>but is specifically optimized for logistics and maintenance because it's all modular
>You can repair damage and replace components faster, everything is standardized
No, this is just a trait of omnipods, they're easy to replace, it does not apply to the things you put into omnipods.
Omnimechs came after all basic clantech, a CERPPC is no more modular than a regular ERPPC, it's not easier to repair, it's no easier to modify a clan battlemech to fit a different weapon than an IS battlemech.

>>98829162
Oh my fucking god. You already filled one thread with this. Let it the fuck go.

>>98829204
No, I will not. Accept that I'm right and give up and I'll consider it, but until then these threads belong to me and I'll use them however I want.

>>98829204
/40kg/ is right over there if you hate seeing people talk about battletech so much

>>98829215
>>98825696

>>98829270
Not groveling enough. Try again.

>>98829215
>>98829280
No, nigger, the two of you already ruined a thread, and we've already told the other one off. You had your turn, and now you do like the rest of us and shut the fuck up, let it lie, and see who else is going to ruin the thread this time.

>>98829300
I want to post an image I have of Hell's Horses MLP style, but the last time I did i got b& for 3 days.

>>98828547
The Taurians believing the Word of Blake was the morally correct side of the Jihad is the only bit of background lore on them I've ever heard that is interesting. Even though it's obviously part of some abused wife psychology meant to make the Taurians ,or at least that one guy, look pathetic and delusional.

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>>98829326
>Even though it's obviously part of some abused wife psychology

I think it's not that, it's more that the Taurians are supposed to hate the IS powers so much that anyone attacking them are the good guys.

...Which is funny, since the Word is just as obsessed with bringing about a new Star League as anyone, and it's the Star League specifically that the Taurians hate, not the IS in general except for the FedSuns, of course.

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>>98829349
Shit, wrong image. I meant to do this one.

>>98829349
>hate the IS powers so much that anyone attacking them are the good guys.
I guess you're right. That's more like crazy ex-wife mentality.

>>98829349
When you put it like that, I'm almost surprised that they didn't end up adopting a Clan.

>>98829505
The clans claim to be the continuation of the SLDF and Star League, which are the Taurians most logically hated foes. And unlike with the Suns, it's mutual.the great houses might have killed the star league, but they were at least in it willingly-ish. The Taurians turned the SLDF's quick easy conquest into a bloody slog that killed a ton of their soldiers and "forced" them to be the bad guys.

Why are random instakill headshots a thing? It's not fun when it happens to you or your opponent, and if it happens early it can decide the game before it's even really begun. It doesn't even make thematic sense, why would they place pilots in such an obvious and vulnerable place? I think I'm just going to houserule away that entire hit location, reroll it

>>98829826
Why is playing a narrative wargame for fun a thing? I'm just going to houserule away the entire game, and decide my matches with rock paper scissors

>>98829826
>It doesn't even make thematic sense, why would they place pilots in such an obvious and vulnerable place?
Cockpit torsos exist, the mechs that use them are very clumsy unless given an extremely skilled mechwarrior because they're significantly harder to pilot. It is harder to pilot using just cameras. It also presents other problems.
Play a few games with a stalker II and a 4/5 pilot.

>>98829848
*torso cockpits

>>98829834
BT in its current form is closer to RPS than BT without a cockpit hit location would be, since current BT is more random. I recently played a match where an undamaged heavy mech got one-shotted by a gauss cockpit hit in the first engagement. Where is the fun in that? If you're playing for "the story" then just go write a book imo.

>>98829848
Interesting, did not know they existed. However the core problem still exists gameplay-wise

>>98829910
Many people find a large element of chance to be interesting in a wargame

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>>98829826

>>98829826
>It's not fun
Cry

>>98829913
I agree with this up to a point. Game-deciding instakills are beyond that point.

>>98829952
I'm done crying

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>>98829964
If you're not playing a campaign, why are you so invested in the outcome of a random match? If you are, now you have interesting choices to make. Welcome to deadly combat, home of the most insane bullshit to ever grace the eyes of man. Murphy's Law is a relentless bitch, and any game that does not properly simulate it is unworthy of calling itself a wargame.

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Should I pick up a Wolf's Dragoons star?
Pros: Annihilator
Cons: I already have a timber wolf, rifleman, blackjack and archer

>>98829981
>The Goonsclusive mech is not the con
Why would you want to play Goons?

>>98829981
No such thing as to many Timbies or Archers.

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>>98827353
>17496 'Mechs
Just how many union dropships did the clans bring along with them during exodus? / How many brand new C-variant union drop ships did they have for the invasion? I'm starting to think the main thing holding the clans back was shipping capacity.

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>>98829986
>Why would you want to play Goons?
Because I play clan second line and I think it would be funny to put it right next to my two Banes, as an added bonus my mercenaries can also bring it.
Also it's mecha godzilla whats not to love?

>>98829996
The main thing holding them back was themselves. They fought a huge trial over who would get to invade just because they assumed they wouldn't need all their forces.

That said, total IS forces are around 50k mechs. 10k of that was the Fedsuns.

>>98829971
I have time to play one match every other week with a friend, too many other obligations (family, work etc). So we plan out our forces and tactics, usually with 6000 bv. Matches are often close since we are about equally skilled. Most recently my undamaged longbow got killed by one gauss rifle shot to the cockpit in the first round where it was in engagement range. That's a loss of ~25% of my bv right from the get-go, so now we are effectively playing a ~4500 bv vs 6000 bv match. I'm not winning that, so the match is decided way too early for it to be an interesting game, and we don't have time to restart it and reliably finish it. Continuing from such a disadvantage does not feel satisfying either since we are about equally skilled and know the likely outcome, the tension is gone.

tldr. Shit mechanic that ruins games

>>98829996
Basically. One of the biggest problems the clans faced were the extremely long supply lines back to the clan home worlds. Also yet another reason to invest in Omni technology, as it dramatically simplifies long range logistics (see American tank parts commonality for fighting across oceans in ww2)

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>>98830014
>total IS forces are around 50k mechs.
Yeah but a major portion of those are just locusts, stingers and wasps due to how ubiquitous those are.

>>98830013
>I play clan second line
You say that like it's not the most munchkin option...Stuff like a Rifleman IIC 1 or Goshawk 1 run circles around frontline omnis.

>as an added bonus my mercenaries can also bring it.
One of the only units in the game explicitly said to be fielded by the Goons and salvaged by absolutely nobody until the 3050's.

>>98829996
That's all 14 Clans in 3060. Revival was 4 Clans, albeit some of the largest. Call it 200 Clusters, or 7200ish Mechs.

That's 480 Union Cs, or 1,440 Broadswords, or 160 Overlord Cs, or some combination. 160 Invaders, or thereabouts. Honestly that seems reasonable.

>>98830019
Lights are approximately 20% of IS forces. Mediums are more common at 30%. Lights are produced in greater numbers but die much more quickly. If you look at the old Clanner Phonebooks, they also have a lot of lights, just much punchier.

>>98830016
>I'm not winning that
NTA but just headcap the enemy assault with a clan ER PPC and you'll be even.
Being bad at rolling dice is a skill issue after all

Clans won in 3050+100 because they had a buttload of mechs in 3050, so after 100 years of Inner Sphere resource exploitation they surely had buttload+1 mechs by the time Terra was ripe for invasion. Spheroids just cannot keep up with le slave labor.

>>98830027
Actually I forgot, the Invading Clans didn't bring their whole Touman. Each brought 3-4 Galaxies, so call it 60-80 Clusters total, not 200. So we're look at like 25 Invaders each, plus extras for supplies and Elementals and ASFs...but also there were WarShips and Starlords and probably a couple Monoliths.

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>>98826454
>>98826552
>>98826641
I mean to be fair, Ravannion was doing that shit with WASP and STINGERS.
Ain't anything your horde can do if their longest ranged option is a Medium Laser...

>>98826906
>I'm afraid that doesn't work as an explanation, IS scientists already managed to make clanspec equipment in very limited quantities during the clan invasion.
Yeah, this is why I agree with it being Gucci-tech.
The vaunted Clan Endo-Steel Anon was masterbaiting over last thread is only half as bulky as it's Inner Sphere counterpart, otherwise same cost, same weight.
Maybe it doesn't simply disintegrate, but does it last for at least a Century like Star League tech?

>>98827209
>Which is why it's job has been supplanted in many nations actually needing an aircraft for the role, with fucking cropdusters, of all things. They use modified crop duster aircraft purpose built with new avionics and fuel tanks who have massive loiter time and ordnance capacity to go up, wait, and drop warheads on cartel / terrorist foreheads from beyond counter-engagement range.
To be fair, it's a damn good plane...

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>>98830023
>You say that like it's not the most munchkin option
Oh I know
The full star would be 2x banes, Rifleman IIC, Annihilator and then a highlander IIC as the command mech. (And only mech with a hand to help flip the 100 ton turtles over when they inevitably slip on a banana peel)

>until the 3050's.
I don't play prior to the clans because my collection is like 70% clan stuff, I do not give a shit about the succession wars.
If I want mad max by the skin of your teeth salvage play I will just go to the periphery

>>98830016
Sounds like you should just man up and play a campaign, or at least something more involved than 4v4 deathmatch. If it wasn't a headshot, it would be TACs or an ammo crit on the armor breach. The solution to your problem is to increase the verisimilitude of your simulation, not gimp it. If you want to do that, go play AS.

>>98829964
Turn one Game deciding insta kills only happen with long range headcappers, fired at long range. The odds of rolling 10+ to hit followed by a 12 on the to hit table is half a percent. You need to play about 138 games to have a 50/50 chance of that having happened at least once.

>>98830016
The odds of this being an actually significant problem in most of your games is laughable. Take the once every two year L, and try to fight back from a hard situation. It will definitely give you a good story to tell, and might even improve your skills from being forced to play in a different way on the fly.

But if you really hate it, just give all your pilots a single point of edge to be used to negate a single headshot or through armour crit. That way variance can still happen, but you don't have the "instant lose" issue.

Side note most times I'm disappointed to roll the head location, as it's damage that could have gone to something I can more reliably hit.

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>>98830029

>>98829826
Same reason plasma weapons have the Gets Hot rule in 40K: to piss you right the fuck off

>>98830016
>I have time to play one match every other week with a friend, too many other obligations
Then fix your life. Games give you an opportunity to have fun, not a guarantee, and if the dice say you don't then that's your problem, not ours, and not the games. Keep your fucking hands off our rules.

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>>98828807

>>98828449
Difference being that Kurita earned its glazing, Taurians are just martyrs in the making over antisocial principles.

>>98830064
He meant the Wolf and Jade Falcon books, which list every Mech in like 8 Galaxies between them.

I remember that Clan Wolf had a lot of Adders and Ice Ferrets. Like a lot. And almost no assaults aside from Gargoyles.

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>>98830045
>but does it last for at least a Century like Star League tech?
Yes, yes it does
Because it is just material science getting better, because the clans kept their science caste relatively unscathed with their fancy SLDF educations, where as everyone else had centuries of knowledge loss to attrition and war.
It's the difference between copper wire and fiber optic cables
Once we actually figured out how to make fiber optic cables it replaces copper for information transfer.
But discovering that process required several novel methods for purifying the silica and then drawing it out into strands. In the beginning we could only make small amounts of it, now after decades of industry companies shit out millions of kilometers a month.

Prior to several different scientists figuring out how to use novel production methods in a lab to make the signal loss go from 2000 decibel to sub 20 decibel did it go from pipe dream to reality however.
Meanwhile fiber optic despite being made out of glass is actually really, really durable.

>>98830091
>Meanwhile fiber optic despite being made out of glass is actually really, really durable.
So it would make a great skeleton for a 20-100 ton war machine?!

>>98830072
>keep your fucking hand off our rules

Sorry bud, I've already made the call to HQ. They will be changing it in the next edition.

Forget realistic,

If you were told that this mech pilot was an immature and insecure man-baby with just about no ability to regulate their emotions, who would use terms like “alpha male” and “beta male” unironically, and you are getting because the last company he was with couldn’t stand him anymore and you lost a bet.

The only consolation is that he has his own mech so you don’t have to loan him one of yours.

What mech seems most likely for him to pilot?

What mech just gives off a “my pilot is a massive douche bag” vibe?

Can be IS or Clan mech.

>>98830125
>What mech just gives off a “my pilot is a massive douche bag” vibe?
Phoenix Hawk: ride of every wannabe Maverick the Mechwarrior

>>98830091
>Because it is just material science getting better
It's too bad only the clans were allowed to improve their material science(and then stop improving it at all for 200 years) while the inner sphere's military technology could only improve to roughly lostech levels and then hit an eternal invisible wall.

>>98830125
Timber wolf.

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>>98830125
>What mech just gives off a “my pilot is a massive douche bag” vibe?
The only consolidation is that he is more likely to go unconscious from repeated cockpit hits than the mech being destroyed.

>>98830125
Should be some former infantry jock in a mook that he killed like a Stinger and claimed it by the old laws. So, he has some cause to be arrogant, but he just doesn't get how out of his depth he is. He's also insanely naturally-talented, so useful enough to not just get merc'd in his sleep. That way you could have him be kind of physically imposing too.

>"Got your mech from daddy government? A REAL mechwarrior hunts his own mech with a satchel charge, a grapple gun, and a gyrojet pistol."

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>>98830134
>and then stop improving it at all for 200 years
Says you
Just because they invented clan tech early, doesn't mean that they had worked out all of the mass production optimizations immediately.
There are so many ways to make production lines more efficient that only pop up after you've built the first several factories.
Meanwhile the innersphere clearly follows the philosophy that cranking out a thousand AK47s from their old beat up factories, is far better than investing all of that money into maybe make a couple of modern assault rifles for ultimately just a bit more range and damage.
Retooling a production line is not cheap, and retooling a multi-planetary logistics line is a nightmare.
From the innersphere's perspective they can throw an entire lance of assault and heavy mechs at the clans for the price of a single heavy omnimech
Better to just throw that lance of steel at the clans and then whoever survives gets to steal some clan exclusive gucci tech, rather than waste time trying to copy the space age technology its made out of.

>>98830173
>doesn't mean that they had worked out all of the mass production optimizations immediately
...Why would they need to mass produce it if it last forever?

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>>98828409
So all of the realms technology is D tier, how badly are we cooked?
Rolling for the planet

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>>98830205
>war fighting material lasts forever after encountering the enemy
It is truly a mystery for the ages why anyone would ever build up a stockpile of war fighting materials.

>>98830173
>Says you
Clantech invented in the 2820's is statistically identical to clantech produced in the 3050's. There is no indication that it changed in any way afterwards.
>doesn't mean that they had worked out all of the mass production optimizations immediately
>Retooling a production line is not cheap, and retooling a multi-planetary logistics line is a nightmare
It was cheap for the clans, there is no lengthy intermediate period where they rely on mixtech designs despite clantech being available. They shift exclusively to clantech as it is invented, clantech completely phases out its non-clantech equivalent the moment it becomes available.
The clans as a whole in the 3050's, with about 36 notoriously hostile systems between them, produce and maintain a larger military than any individual great house in the 3060's. This means clantech isn't actually difficult or expensive in terms of production.

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Rolled 1, 2, 3, 2 = 8 (4d6)

>>98830207

>>98830170
You give him too much credit.

Of course mommy and daddy bought him his mech, yet sees nothing wrong with talking shit to other pilots about their mechs, how they use them, or how they spend their time when not in the cockpit. The fact that he didn’t earn shit either doesn’t factor into his arrogance, or secretly fuels his insecurity in the worst way. Also why just stabbing this Tate-wannabe isn’t really on the table. His family might retaliate.

>>98830245
Sounds like he should be a drac, then, or a Malfoy.

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>>98830218
>There is no indication that it changed in any way afterwards.
I am talking about the factories changing you surat.

>It was cheap for the clans, there is no lengthy intermediate period where they rely on mixtech designs despite clantech being available.
Jade Falcon shat out a clan frankenmech in the form of the Thunderbolt IIC due to supply limitations and retooled to make the Locust IIC with innersphere components, what are you smoking?

>This means clantech isn't actually difficult or expensive in terms of production.
Sure once you have the factory technology + labor caste developed and perfected over two centuries.
When are you going to get it into your tiny, insignificant spheroid brain that communicable knowledge is not going to change your coal powered, steam driven 18th century sweatshop into a modern day LNG factory for shitting out advanced microchips.
Once you have the production facilities its easy to mass produce something on the cheap, that is the whole point of massive logistic lines.

Even if you understand how a fiber optic cable works, you aren't going to magically get a production line for making ultra pure silica by the millions of kilometers just because you salvage a couple of spools worth.
You are going to keep using your tried and tested copper wire, because every time you try and make fiber optic cables, you are using the wrong heat levels and chemistry and don't even know how to use plasma + a vacuum to coat the silica atom by atom to get sub 20 decibel signal lose.
Everything your filthy freebirth hands produces is 1000 decibels and so you stick to copper, because its not that much worse as long as you aren't transporting information across vast stretches of land like the bottom of the ocean, its more than fine for hooking everyone's telephones up in your city.
It's the same with IS tech
They made innersphere ER lasers real fast, because they could retool their production lines to make that easily.

>>98830259
NTA, but we only have ultra-pure silica because of one mine of super pure sand in the US. So, natural resources matter there, too.

>>98830271
>So, natural resources matter there, too.
Honestly that'd be a better excuse for Clan Tech Scarcity...
...But the Inner Sphere would still have 100 times the natural resources.

>>98830173
>Meanwhile the innersphere clearly follows the philosophy that cranking out a thousand AK47s from their old beat up factories, is far better than investing all of that money into maybe make a couple of modern assault rifles for ultimately just a bit more range and damage
The successor states just after the third succession war were notably building entirely new lostech factories with the discovery of the helm memory core and mass producing lostech again. The draconis combine was building their own omnimechs within months of studying captured clan omnimechs from the battle of luthien.

>>98830271
>>98830279
IIRC didn't they discover some new materials in the clan homeworlds that they couldn't easily reproduce in the innersphere and so they had to keep shipping it in even once they started retooling production lines?

>>98830117
We're talking about the people who make armour out of steel wool here.

>>98830294
You're thinking of Harjel, but that's a biologic thing harvested from local sea creatures.

>>98830173
It's stated that NAIS was able to produce Clantech by early 3060s, but that it uses exotic materials and completely differently production methods so you'll have to completely retool factories to produce it. For early Clans that wouldn't be a huge logistics issue as they didn't have that many factories to begin with and all subsequent ones would be built from the ground up to produce Clantech, but IS has probably hundreds of different companies producing different components, and factories that in some cases have been running for centuries while going through multiple ad-hoc repairs with whatever components were at hand during the Succession Wars. Modifying all of that to produce Clantech would have been a massive undertaking, and while Fedcom could have done it the civil war followed by the Jihad (which wrecked the IS industrial base so bad that some companies had to start making primitive mechs because introtech was getting too expensive) put a stop to any plans to do it, so you only see mass-produced IS-based Clantech during the Dark Age, when Sphere-wise war breaks out again and all the Houses start building up their militaries again.

>>98830286
And my podunk, barely 500+ Iowa home town had fiber optic at least a decade ago...

>>98830245
In fact, I can already picture him still talking shit to the other pilots about how they “got their mechs from daddy government” and “real men take their mechs from the enemy”, like you suggested in your post, and the rest of the mercs looking at him, knowing HE didn’t get his mech that way and giving him the “Say “psych” right fucking now or so help me-“ look.

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>>98830286
>and mass producing lostech
lostech =/= clantech
The endosteel is still half as good, same goes for the quality of every other material used in the process.
Everything is just bulkier, shittier and not as good because ultimately the people making logistics decisions don't care if the mechwarrior dies, they can get cleaned out of the cockpit and replaced.
Meanwhile since clan society is run by warriors (with a few exceptions) making the most powerful super mech is a top priority, rather than making sure every yahoo mechjock you could scrounge up has a working machine even if it might be five centuries old.


>>98830300
>so you only see mass-produced IS-based Clantech during the Dark Age
The dark age makes no fucking sense
>Mechs are rare so everyone uses retooled industrial mechs
>But also here are all these brand new super mechs that blow everything prior out of the water
>But also the HPG network is down so all logistic chains are fucked making producing advanced take prohibitively hard and expensive

>>98830318
>lostech =/= clantech
But Lostech was where Clan Tech originated from...
Getting there at least puts the Inner Sphere on the same level as those Star League Scientist in a cave with a box of scrap- I mean, Pentagon Worlds.

>>98830259
>I am talking about the factories changing you surat.
This was effectively an instantaneous process for the clans when they invented clantech. They go from no clantech to all clantech the moment it's invented.
>what are you smoking?
Wasn't an issue in the clan homeworlds. They could afford to build the largest military in the 3050's out of pure clantech. Then it suddenly becomes a problem for them when they get to the inner sphere? Nah, bad writing.
>Even if you understand how a fiber optic cable works, you aren't going to magically get a production line for making ultra pure silica by the millions of kilometers just because you salvage a couple of spools worth.
All it took for the clans to do it was knowing how lostech works, a couple decades, and just having some of the shittiest planets humans have inhabited to build new factories on from scratch.
>>98830300
Yet they had no problem building tons of brand new lostech factories all over in a short amount of time.
>so you only see mass-produced IS-based Clantech during the Dark Age
So the supposedly expensive and difficult to produce clantech finally comes into production when the successor states are at their poorest most dysfunctional point, that makes a ton of sense.
>>98830318
>lostech =/= clantech
Clantech is literally just better lostech, that's what the clans based clantech on and used to invent clantech.

>>98830318
>>But also here are all these brand new super mechs that blow everything prior out of the water
This is entirely a CGL thing where they want new toys for their new ilClan no matter if it makes any sense or not. Then, they jam most of them into the 3140's to give them some time to percolate into general forces.

They did the same with the Early DA retcons where they added a shit ton of Stoner supertech in the maximum downtech 3120's instead of after the Wall.

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>>98830332
>Getting there at least puts the Inner Sphere on the same level as those Star League Scientist in a cave with a box of scrap- I mean, Pentagon Worlds.
And no one has disputed this? Everyone however has now been telling you for two threads that the subsequent two centuries of nearly pristine, unmolested infrastructure improvements matter a great deal more than just figuring out the basics of making an ER laser that does a bit more damage and has a bit more range.

Also since the clans didn't have to worry about collatoral damage quite as often as the innersphere, they could most likely shorten a lot of logistic lines which the innersphere deliberately keep long because they don't want any individual world with the ability to produce advanced technology and potentially challenge the monarchy.
Clans didn't have to consider things like that and could instead just work on making the super mechs as quickly as possible, without having to worry about someone showing up and nuking it out of spite, just because their house lost a war halfway across the innersphere.

>>98825363
yeah but even societies with ritual duels had war capability and they often used the same fucking material because why wouldn't they?

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>>98830338
>They go from no clantech to all clantech the moment it's invented.
This is your brain on the MUL

>>98830356
>two centuries of nearly pristine, unmolested infrastructure
The clans only had infrastructure that had existed for at most 20 years when they invented and began mass production of clantech.
If you have lostech factories and infrastructure that has existed for 20 years you are at around the same level as the SLDF scientists and industry that invented and produced clantech at scale.