>>98835268
I played a few sessions of it a decade ago and it seemed decent at it, but I have a shitass memory so I can't remember details.

>>98835268
I considered running fall of delta green because I'm doing a campaign starting in 1969 but reading the rules I found the whole idea of gumshoe to be pretty stupid. The investigative part was trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist if you're not a retarded GM running/creating bad scenarios, and the rest of the rules didn't seem particularly great anyway. I ended up running regular Delta Green.

>>98835268
Fall of DG has some nice bits in it, but Gumshoe is worthless. Just run anything out of Fall with the Misery Engine like the rest of DG.

>>98839003
I played in a Fall of Delta Green one-shot, but my gm was just using the ruleset, not the setting.

>>98835268

I read the Esoterrorists PDF (the first game that used Gumshoe) and it seemed to demand an extremely rigid structure for games where there's a deterministic daisy-chain of clues that you discover by using the correct investigative skill on the correct object and which lead you to the next scene where you do the same, and so on. It seems quite unnatural and boring to me, and a hell of a lot of trouble to go through to solve a problem I have never encountered in an actual game. In fact, like >>98839003 said, Gumshoe system seems to be a solution to a problem that's largely fictional.

>>98835268
I haven't played fall of DG, but I have played some Nights Black Agents, Trail of Cthulhu, and Swords of the Serpentine, so I'll be a dissenting voice and say I like gumshoe. I've sort of moved away from games like that, but the general point spend mechanics are cool, and a lot of the ways you can spend investigative points for things are also fun. The tactics and strategy meta of the game can be rewarding. I think a lot of the books could do a better job and describing how investigative spends actually work, it seems like a lot of people still think "spend point to get clue" when it isn't supposed to work like that. But I like it, and my understanding is that Fall uses a lot of the extras that Nights Black Agents introduced, and I think thats probably the best implementation of the system. And, even if you don't like the system and just want to use the agents handbook, FoDG was written by Ken Hite, so you know it's a good guide to the weird, fucked up Cthulhu 60s.

>>98841139
It says something about how the game presents itself that this ends up being the read most people get of it, but it's absolutely no different than prepping an investigative scenario for a game like Call of Cthulhu, it's just that the players will never miss a clue they could get if they are in a place where a skill could get a clue.

And gating information behind skills rolls and games stalling out because of it is absolutely a real problem that people talk about all the fucking time.

I just don't get the whole idea of GUMSHOE. "Give the players the key clues!" Well then what's the point of investigating?

>>98842276
You don't just hand out clues at the beginning of the session with zero contacts. They still have to investigate scenes, follow up on sources, interview suspects, etc. it's just that, at the end of whatever action they're taking, they'll get a relevant piece of information, without having to roll. What is hard for you to understand about this?

>>98841189
>>98841200
I've always been interested in it just because the settings sound cool as hell, but I've never gotten to dig into the books because my gaming group hasn't been stable enough to bother.

>>98842337
Fear Itself lends itself pretty well to one shots, and the system is pretty dead simple to explain.

>>98842276
GUMSHOE's thesis is that the fun part of an investigation isn't obtaining clues, it's piecing the clues together to draw a conclusion. Thus there's no reason to gatekeep clues behind skill rolls.

That said, the GUMSHOE system itself kind of blows so just take the above idea and run with it in your system of choice

>>98842276
>>98846356

Honestly if your players are "locked" behind failed skill rolls for obtaining clues, you aren't GMing well.

Delta Green already addresses this by allowing characters with a decent enough skill to auto succeed at stuff. Instead of rolling a Forensics test, just give them the main info to keep the investigation going, and keep expanded details behind a successful roll.

>>98846388
>Delta Green already addresses this by allowing characters with a decent enough skill to auto succeed at stuff. Instead of rolling a Forensics test, just give them the main info to keep the investigation going
This is literally how gumshoe does it as well. In fact, I believe the designers of DG were directly inspired by gumshoe.

>>98846686

Nah, DG is way older.

Gumshoe's idea is that the investigative skills are fuel the players spend to have more agency in the collecting clues thing. And yes, the "have clearer clues" thing as well.

I think it doesn't work when you think COC because a whole lot of COC scenarioes are, well, REALLY simple in their mistery part: the players don't really have to think much about who did it and what for. It's more about survival.

I heard Delta green was good for modern day call of cthulu play, if you wanted to play something else besides a secret agent, would that be an option or should I look into other modern day supplements?

>>98846794
No, Delta Green as a ruleset, not just a setting book for call of cthulhu, came out in 2016. The first gumshoe game came out ten years before that. You do not need to spend points to get clues in a gumshoe game. If you have a point in an investigative ability, and you are in a scene where that investigative ability applies, you get the clue. Point spends offer benefits above and beyond that. The developers of DG have explicitly said they used gumshoe as inspiration, and Ken Hite, one of the most prolific gumshoe writers, worked on DG.

As to your second point, that depends wildly on the scenario and the keeper running the game. The Haunting is almost entirely mystery, for example, and that's the most recommend CoC introductory game of all time. If ever there was a standard, it'd be that.

>>98849246

Ah, if you meant the stand alone book, fair enough.

>You do not need to spend points to get clues in a gumshoe game.

True of course, at least for Core clues. But THAT isn't generally what puzzles people, so I assumed it was the "why do I have points to spend?" problem.

>>98848491

FODG or og DG?

>>98850844
>But THAT isn't generally what puzzles people
The thing I see constantly meme'd is "game where you spend points to get clues." And >>98846388 seems pretty confused by it.>>98850844

>>98835268
The only incarnation of Gumshoe I've played was Trail of Cthulhu. The whole "let the players get the crucial clues automatically" thing worked decent enough I, although I never found this to be that big of a problem when running investigative scenarios anyway
The whole rest of the system felt just kinda clunky and/or underwhelming though. Upgrading your investigative skills barely serves any function since you don't even roll for them, while all of the non-investigative skills are very simplistic and just kinda there in how they work.

tl;dr;. it works well, but it's not a particularly fun, satisfying or interesting system

>>98851288
>Upgrading your investigative skills barely serves any function

The rulebook says as much, you're generally not wanting any 3+ investigative skill.

>>98851288
>>98851411
Even then, there are certain investigative skills that can be spent on temporary, situational general ability pools, like Architecture to get points escape a haunted house, or outdoorsman to be able to sneak through the woods.

>>98842276
You still have to do something to get the clues. It just solves the classic RPG problem of.

"I search for clue X way". "Okay make X roll". "I fail". Now that essential clue is lost and the mystery stalls.

Additionally, the interesting part of a mystery is assembling the clues.

>>98851446

Not that I remember.

>>98851459
I think the key thing that people don't realize is that Gumshoe is a 20 year old system and a lot of the ideas that when into the design have kind of been incorporated into most investigative gming advice by now.

>>98851467
Yes, this is part of the system.

>>98851479

Care for a book reference?

>>98851511
It's in Night Black Agents and Swords of the Serpentine, I don't know which book it originated in, but I've heard it used extensively in trail of Cthulhu actual plays, I assumed it was from there.

Generally, would anyone of you guys even get together and do a /tg/ Delta Green game campaign together or you all just in your physical groups or whatever?

>>98851754
It sounds like a cool idea to one day especially that I had very little opportunity to play DG so far, but I have like 3 other campaigns ongoing at the moment
Also, I'm always a bit anxious about my English when I consider doing online play

>>98853523
>I'm always a bit anxious about my English when I consider doing online play
We've got a Russian guy in our Curse of Strahd and everyone is pretty understanding when he has to pause and ask if this or that is the right word. Besides, his accent fits right in Barovia anyway.